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					Minutes of the pre-bidding conference ITB 02/12 Smart metering

Date: 10 May 2012

Time: 10 AM

Place: conference was organized via Skype


Mr. Tomislav Veliki, Project Coordinator

Mr. Tomislav Stasic, Technical Expert

Ms. Jasmina Stipula, Procurement Associate

Mr. Leo Lisac, Procurement Assistant – Observer

Mr. Flemming Christensen – Representative Utiligence Ltd., United Arab Emirates

Mr. Mico Dujak – Representative Ericsson Nikola Tesla, Croatia

Mr. Juraj Gospodaric, Lipapromet d.o.o.and Kampstrup A/S, Croatia

Mr. Velimir Racan, Racan ELEKTRONIKA, Croatia

Mr. Darko Vranesic, Atos, Croatia

This document is not a transcript of the pre-bidding documents. These are explanations in writing for
the questions raised at the conference. The answers given in the document are fully in line with the
answers given during the conference.

Mr. Flemming Christensen – Representative Utiligence Ltd., United Arab Emirates

    1. The tender has been floated number of times. I would like to know what is the reason

This is not the same tendering process. Each time there were different buildings specified in

    2. You are asking for „one hour“resolution for data to be presented why is not that more
       finegraned? I would have expected a one minute resolution?
If you are coming from industry maybe the „one minute“ is very important but for the building
observation analysis „one hours“ is enough. Even lower values could be accepted. For the buildings it
is not needed to be that fast.

    3. I have seen that you want for meters to be connected. So we should use existing meters
       pulses for the building information for maintenance of the building or for the tenants?

Tenants should not use this system as a billing system. This is the system for analysis of energy
consumption. It can serve for the technical personnel on the specific objects.

Mr. Mico Dujak – Representative Ericsson Nikola Tesla, Croatia

    4. What is exactly an isolated switch amplifier? Can you explain that? It is on the page 23 of the
       procurement notice?

Isolated switch amplifier is galvanic barrier. It is divided in two zones because gas meters are in Ex
zone so you need to split Ex zone and the rest of the system or the rest of the building or the
environment. This is required by the Law and is demanded from the Local Utility Gas Company.

    5. On page 26 in technical specification you are looking for 5 water meters but in the
       engineering part the quantity is 9? How many meters do you need 5 or 9?

5 water meters stated in these specifications needs to be change while connection should be made
for 9 water meters. So you should change and connect 5 water meters and connect 4 existing

    6. Can we get some more information about the existing meters? What type of gas or water
       meters are installed at these 5 locations? Can you give us manufacturers?

There are two types of meters: ZMD series, 405 or 410 Iskra type 801 or 851. Water meters are
mainly from IKOM as this is Zagreb area and the IKOM is distributer of water meters. And gas meters
are mostly Instromet. Detailed list of meters will be provided to all participants as an attachment to
this Minutes.

    7. Can we visit this location?

If necessary this can be organized for all the companies. The schedule for site visit is the following:

Friday, 18 May 2012 10.00 hrs for the Ministries and Monday, 21 May 2012 10.00 hrs for the
Hospitals Rebro and Petrova. Interested representatives from the companies should confirm their
attendance to Mr. Tomislav Veliki not later than Thursday, 17 May
2012 at15.00.

Juraj GOSPODARIC, Lipapromet d.o.o. and Kamstrup, Croatia

For the time being we do not have questions.

Velimir RACAN, Racan electronika, Croatia
    8. At the beginning you mentioned that there are several communication technologies from
       the central unit to ruter vpn unit and central software EMIS and you mentioned LON talk and
       BAC net and IP so we can choose among this?

Yes you can choose among this.

    9. If we can choose among mentioned solutions and in the specification of the equipment there
       is equipment which is unnecessary for the solution we would be able to develop (for example
       there is extension module BACnet/IP that we do not need and also do not need several
       converters from M bus to RS232) can we avoid this several pieces of equipment that are

Of course.

    10. There is requirement for optocoupler 230 VAC and relay. What these are used for?

They are used for dividing the power meter and the rest of the system. It is demand from the local
electrical company. They do not want to be connected directly to the terminals power meters. They
want splitting and that is why we need to use it.

    11. What about relay?

Relay serves for changing of tariff. On each object usually you have two tariff systems. Relay serves to
divide tariff from the meter and the rest of the system. That is also demand from the local utility

    12. But is not the meter that it has two tariffs so it records one tariff and it switches to another?

We are using the signal from the power meters so the power meter is giving the signal to the data
acquisition system.

    13. But again if we have a solution we can read the meter directly?

Yes if you have some kind of opto device and if local utility company allows this kind of solution. In
case like this please provide us with the utility company confirmation in writing.

Darko VRANESIC, Atos, Croatia

    14. In addition to expected VPN tunnel is there any other communication method that needs to
        be supported now or in the future like RF or GPRS?

Do you mean the connection from the central unit to the EMIS system or to the lower field?

        It may be both.

From the meters to the concentrator there is couple of systems that could be used: GPRS, RF
Communication and hard wire communication. That is between the meters and the central unit. But
from the central unit and the EMIS system we want to have VPN tunnel because of the stability of
the connection.
    15. What is the security level required for the communication through the VPN tunnel, any

It may be encrypted but it is important to have right information for EMIS so that data can be
integrated to the EMIS system.

    16. Existing meters that you already have in place for which the integration needs to be
        implemented; can you tell us for all of them from which manufactures they all are?

The power meters are from Landis & Gyr and Iskra Company, water meters are from IKOM, and gas
meters are from Elster Company and in some cases Rombach G types like G4 OR G6.

    17. Is there any requirement now or in the future for in house display interfaces?

What do you mean by the in-house displays?

         In the smart metering systems there may be or may not be required. Meaning that in the
buildings there is a particular display which will show different type of data, information, percentage
or that could be concretely gathered from the meters?

You mean software that would display this data?

No I am asking for necessity or requirements for in-house display? Because if there is no display there
is no need for software as well.

If you are asking for the software, the software exists. And there is specification for the computer
and display which will show this data. The computer is connected to the central system and there is
no special requirement.

    18. So the computer on sites is fed with the information from the central system not locally.

Not locally that is right.

    19. Why is that so?

Because this is the solution we tried and it worked.

    20. But as you mentioned before the other type of solution may be imposed or suggested?

 Yes but you should consider when offering solution that the contract will be awarded based on
lowest price. The overriding criteria in this particular tendering process would be price among
responsive offers.

Velimir RACAN, Racan electronika

    21. There are two steam meters in two objects. According to specification they already have
        pulse sources or mA. It is 4-20 mA or pulses.

Ministry building has pulse source steam meter and the Rebro hospital has mA steam meter.

    22. If we want to reduce the price in some situations due to long cabling RF solutions would be
        more appropriate than wire solution.
It is suggested to use hard wire. Use RF only if it is necessary and if the meters are outside of the
buildings like it is regular situation for the water meters. Just to mention that significant part of the
contract is maintenance part so you should count that in when offer RF because in maintenance
period you might have to change batteries etc...

Price for hard wire is really high and if we have a good solutions the price between hard wire and RF
is not comparable. When you have to change the meter you can change the batteries as well.

Technical solution should be in line with the description /specification in the tendering process. You
cannot offer different solution that is not in line with the specification. If in the specification is
written that you can use RF or hard wire you can use RF instead of hard wire.

    23. Is deadline going to be prolonged?

Having introduced the site visit the deadline will be prolonged to 29 May 2012 at 12.00 hours.

    24. Will the reference from parent companies or other companies in the group be accepted?

The references from the parent company or the company within your group will not be accepted.

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