2009_december_7_-_eo by KylieFowler


									                                                                             ! 5 DEC-
                                AT 4.00 PM

PRESENT:            His Worship the Mayor Mr T R Shadbolt JP
                    Cr N D Boniface - Deputy Mayor
                    Cr R L Abbott
                    CrT J Buck
                    Cr AG Dennis
                    Cr N J Elder
                    Cr P W Kett
                    Cr J Kruger
                    Cr D J Ludlow
                    Cr G T Piercy
                    Cr G J Sycamore
                    Cr L S Thomas

IN ATTENDANCE:      Mr A B Ballinger- Director of Works and Services
                    Mr D J Johnston - Director of Finance and Corporate Services
                    Mr B W Watt - Director of Environmental and Planning Services
                    Mr J Salter - Lawyer from Simpson Grierson Solicitors
                    Mr W Cambridge - City Solicitor
                    Ms L Kuresa - Committee Secretary

1          APOLOGIES



           His Worship tabled his report and took the Meeting through it.

           His remarks included:

           > This again is going to be tough. It's looking at restructuring.
           > I know a lot of people don't like us discussing difficult issues in public, but
             that's part of a democratic process.
           > We got a lot of good publicity over the Ranfurly Shield and sporting events
             held in the city and we get a lot of positive publicity from the public.
           > There is a flip side to having a high profile and that is, when you have
             problems, you get bad publicity.
           > If you look at the dog issue for example, it didn't make the city look good.
           > Once upon a time nobody worried who the Deputy Mayor of Invercargill was
             and now it creates a national controversy when we want to change our
             Deputy Mayor. In a way it's a compliment.
           > One of the problems facing this Council is that, it's almost like there's two
           > There's been talk about team work today and it seems to me like there's the
             "haves" and the "have nots".
> There are those who become Directors and those who don't and it seems to
  create a tension within Council.
> Perhaps that is the root of what has happened to myself and the Deputy
> I have looked at some radical restructuring in looking forward to the future.
> We can't bring it in this term, but at least it gives you notice for next year as
  to how I'm feeling and what direction you should move in.
> I hope these barriers will break down those divisions.
> I am putting forward this proposal for discussion.

Cr Piercy's remarks included:

>   I would like to know, why, after several years as the Works and Services
    Chairman, what I have done to be replaced when I still have 10 months to
> I have a couple of very huge contracts to look at.
> Is it because I have aged, an inability issue or is this pay back, because I am
  convinced it is.
> Works and Services has not got a problem and have never had a problem.

His Worship said Cr Piercy was in yesterday's Otago Daily Times, saying "this
Council is rotten to the core" and now he was saying that Council did not have a
problem. He said if this Council was rotten to the core, then Council needed to
do something about it.

Moved His Worship, seconded Cr Abbott that the changes set out in the
Mayor's report take place within Council in terms of restructuring.

Cr Dennis's remarks included:

>   Two or three weeks ago there wasn't a problem and all of a sudden the
    people you relied upon, trusted and appointed from this group here as
    senior Councillors with great knowledge of the way Council works, have
    caught leprosy.
>   They are doing extraordinary in their positions.
>   I am not against change. If you really want to make some changes and
    make some differences wait until after the next elections.
>   Wait and see what the public says, but I am not in favour of completely flat
    lining management.
>   Someone has to make decisions and be responsible for them and these
    gentlemen that I sit close to here, have done extremely well and often in
    difficult circumstances.

In response to a question from His Worship as to why Cr Piercy said that
Council was rotten, Cr Piercy said he did not say that.

Cr Boniface said that Cr Piercy said the issue between himself and His Worship
was rotten.

Cr Piercy said once again, His Worship had stretched the truth. He said he did
not make comments about his fellow Councillors being rotten. He said he had a
lot of respect for His Worship, but it was rapidly diminishing.

His Worship said he felt that Council did have some problems that needed to be
addressed. He said the issue arose after discussions with Councillors. He said
Councillors had indicated in those discussions that Council had a problem and
how they wanted to resolve those problems.
He said one of the problems was after talking on a one-to-one basis with all the
Councillors, it emerged from the discussions with the Councillors that those who
had no Directorates were unhappy and those who had Directorates were very
happy about the situation and did not want any change. He said it seemed
there were "haves" and "have nots" on Council and he wanted to change it.

Discussion included:

Cr Buck:

>    I disagree with what you said Your Worship. I have nothing, never had
    nothing and have never been happier to work for the people of Invercargill.
    You are telling fibs again, because you didn't ask me those questions. I told
    you exactly how I feel that I thought the whole meeting was "crap". I didn't
    even know what I was doing there. I didn't ask for anything and I don't want
    anything. I am happy with what I have and I have more people ringing me
    than probably you. I don't want to be a Director and money doesn't mean
    anything to me. Whether we have money or no money, we all meet the
    same fate.

Cr Kruger:

>    I like the motion around Cr Thomas being the Chairman of Works and
    Services. It's my understanding that Cr Piercy has been in the role for
     12 years and he knows the ropes inside out. He has signalled that he would
    be leaving Council at the end of this term. When we were elected and we
    had our first round of meetings, I put up my hand up and said that I was
    keen to chair Works and Services if I was put on that Committee. With
    Cr Piercy knowing so much and being skilled in the role, it is not good
    having all the information in one person's head and then they leave after
    12 years of history. No one will be left to carry that legacy. It would be an
    intelligent thing for Council to put someone of Cr Thomas's interest under
    the tutor ledge of Cr Piercy. It's a grand idea because Council would be in a
    better position to run Council.

Cr Piercy:

>    I only took over after one term and I didn't get much training. I have been
    training my team and anybody on the Works and Services Committee can
    take over from me. There is a time for that and that time is at the end of the
    term not now.

Cr Elder asked Mr Cambridge for understanding on the Constitutions of those
companies set out in the Mayor's report and what would happen if there was no
Council representation on them.

Mr Cambridge advised Council of the Constitution of Invercargill City Holdings
Limited as requested by Cr Elder.

Further discussion included:

Cr Abbott:

>    I am a "have not" and I am a "want not". I thought that the Mayoral report
    that I read is an indicator pre-election 2010, post election 2010, but it would
    be a brave thing to do. I can see where some of my Councillor colleagues
    are coming from and it could look bad.
            I think that Cr Kruger's conclusion is good, responsibility might be an answer
            to that. We should get on with the job and share the responsibility and
            create harmony ground status. I see this as a direct proposal and a way of
            doing so. With two "watchdogs" on Invercargill City Holdings Limited that's
            our own company, thereafter, give the people of Invercargill who have great
            skills the opportunity to be directors of their company, not our company. We
            must remember why we are here, to look after their interests.

            Cr Thomas:

        >   I seem to be the meat in the sandwich in this, because I have been put
            down as a proposed Chairman of Works and Services. It would be an
            honour to accept, because I have got something to offer Works and
            Services, but in saying that, I do lose the position that I hold dearly as well,
            which is Invercargill City Holdings Limited. I just want the public and the
            media to know that I didn't chase this job, because sometimes when we do
            end up in the back room to talk over things, there is accusation that jobs
            have been chased. His Worship has made this choice.

        His Worship said the proposal was not for implementation immediately and he
        was not looking for a decision today. He apologised for not giving out the
        information earlier for Councillors to read and it served notice for the future
        changes that he would like to see.

        Further discussion included:

        Cr Kett:

        >   With the changes in Invercargill City Holdings Limited of taking Cr Thomas
            away from that Board, I feel it is unwise at this stage. At this present time
            Invercargill City Holdings Limited is having discussions on outside interests
            and great opportunities in which Invercargill City Council would greatly
            benefit from. It is not wise to reduce our representation on Invercargill City
            Holdings Limited.

        Cr Ludlow:

        >   I am a little confused, because if this recommendation is a general indication
            of what you would like to see after the 2010 elections, why are there names
            next to it. There is no guarantee that the people indicated here will be

        His Worship the Mayor:

        > I am sorry there is uncertainty, but I am looking forward to the future.

        Cr Sycamore:

        >   You were earlier very critical of Mr King in drinking with colleagues, staff and
            a Councillor in the office in work time. It's rather coincidental or strange that
            you now want to promote this Councillor to a Chairman.

Note:   His Worship and Cr Harpur said it was out of order and called for right of reply.
Cr Thomas's remarks included:

>   Since everybody knows the circumstances surrounding Mr King's accident, I
    will now give a public statement.
>   At approximately 4.10 pm on the Friday, I called into Council to get a ticket
    for the rugby match that was spare, for the game that was on that night.
>   When I walked into the office, Mr King asked me to go in and meet a Chief
    Executive Officer from another council.
>    I went in and they were having a drink. Mr King asked if I would like a glass
    of wine.
>   I had two glasses of wine and left at 5.40 pm after two glasses of wine.
>    If you really want to get the low down, some Councillors around this table
    have to think about the habits that have been going on within this Council.

Cr Boniface's remarks included:

>    I agree with some of the things that you have in your report and I agree with
    Cr Harpur that it's important we don't do the same thing that is done every
>   There are policies in place and there are Constitutions in place, and there
    should be good rationale for any decisions made.
>    For example Best Practise Guidelines, we've all been given a copy of this.
    It's your number one company that owns all the Council assets, which your
    Holding Company should have a majority of Councillors on.
>    That is best practise and that is what Christchurch does, Dunedin does and
    what other councils do, but you must have a majority of Councillors on it.
>    It is the proper guidelines to use, so three people should be qualified
    Director for the Holding Company.
>   There should also be a proper policy in place to put people forward for
    positions who have the knowledge and skills for those positions.
>    I understand there is a policy coming through Invercargill City Holdings
    Limited to do that.
>   A Councillor shouldn't be on any company unless they have the knowledge
    and the skills to be on that company and that's why I agree with some of the
    changes that you've suggested Your Worship.
>    Cr Piercy has been an excellent Chairman of Works and Services and in my
    observation there has not been any problem with the way the Committee
    structure has worked.
>    Some Councillors have raised it with me and I think there should be a
    Governance Workshop because it's no good having it after the elections.
>    I agree with you Your Worship, we should be thinking about what is the best
    methodology of Committee structure. How many Committees we should
    have and whether we should have no Committees at all and just meet twice
    a month.
>   There are methods and the Committee structures that offer a lot of good
    points, because you end up debating the issues at a Committee level. In
    some ways the old and tried systems work, but I think we need to debate it.
>   Cr Harpur has raised it, but we can't have a Governance Workshop unless
    Councillors were properly notified and we agree to have it.
>   This subject should be put on hold and we discuss this issue. It is very
    unfair if you get six new Councillors at the next election, they don't have a
    clue on what happened previously. It is a good idea if we do sit around,
    discuss and work through some of these issues.
>   There obviously are some issues that Councillors have about the way we
    operate. That is what we are here to do, to look after the governance and
    the Council staff are here to look after management and they have a
    structure in place that's worked well.
            >   I am happy to give notice of a motion to have a workshop early next year to
                discuss some of these issues, lay our cards on the table and work through
                them in a democratic way.

            Moved Cr Boniface, seconded Cr Piercy that the proposal be deferred to a
            Workshop for further discussion.

            Cr Elder asked for clarification on the motion.

            His Worship said it was a proposal accepting that it could not be put in place.
            He said that was unusual, because of constitutional issues, but it was put up
            there for discussion purposes. He said the idea of having a workshop following
            on from this was a good one and if that was an amendment he accepted it, if the
            seconder agreed with that.

            Cr Dennis said there were discussions by some people with regard to having a
            workshop within the last three weeks. He said His Worship was not here and it
            was unfair to have a workshop without the Mayor. He said he was in favour of
            having a Governance Workshop, but the names needed to be taken out as set
            out in the report. He said Councillors should look at structure with regard to the
            way His Worship would like to see the future Council operating.

            He said one thing that could be done was a job description between the Mayor
            and the Deputy Mayor so that things were specified and things did not get as far
            as it did today. He said that would create a clear understanding between the
            Mayor and the Deputy Mayor.

            His Worship said he always accepted the democratic decisions of Council and
            Council had decided that Cr Boniface would be his Deputy Mayor and he will be
            his Deputy Mayor. He said that was the end of it. He said Council had gone
            through the process and followed correct procedures; he had a grievance,
            which had been well aired and that was the end of the matter. He said it was
            back to work. His Worship thanked all Councillors for helping him to work
            through the issue.

            The motion now being put was RESOLVED in the affirmative with amendment.

There being no further business the meeting closed at 4.31 pm.

To top