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                                                THURSDAY, 18 AUGUST 2011

                                                                   PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

                                                The House met at 14:05.

                                                The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a
                                                moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

                                                ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                                                                            NOTICES OF MOTION

                                                Mrs A STEYN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next
                                                sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

                                                   That the House debates the ongoing crisis caused by
                                                   government’s repeated failure to conduct the audit of state
                                                   land and proposed solutions to this crisis in order to ensure
                                                   that suitable state-owned land can be earmarked for land reform

                                                Mr G S RADEBE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next
                                                sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
                                                  That the House debates increased access to occupational
                                                  directed programmes in needed areas to expand the availability
                                                  of intermediate-level skills, with a special focus on artisan

                                                Mr K S MUBU: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next
                                                sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

                                                  That the House debates the South African government’s position
                                                  on Libya in terms of the political crisis and the role of the
                                                  African Union with regard to postconflict resolution.

                                                Mr H T MAGAMA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next
                                                sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

                                                  That the House debates the South African government’s and
                                                  regional formations’ response to aid Somalia.

                                                Dr L BOSMAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next
                                                sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
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                                                  That the House debates disaster management plans across the
                                                  country, and mechanisms to improve the response of the
                                                  government and relevant role-players during disasters.

                                                 GOOD WISHES TO ACCOMPANY OSCAR PISTORIUS AND REST OF TEAM SA TO
                                                                  ATHLETICS WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS

                                                                       (Draft Resolution)

                                                Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I move without notice:

                                                  That the House

                                                   1) notes the inclusion of Oscar Pistorius in the 26 athletes
                                                      picked by Athletics South Africa to represent South Africa
                                                      in the world championships;

                                                   2) further notes that he will be the first amputee athlete at
                                                      these championships, when he represents South Africa in
                                                      South Korea;

                                                   3) acknowledges that 11 of South Africa’s athletes will be
                                                      attending the world championships for the first time and
                                                      wishes all athletes competing in the championship well in
                                                      this competition;

                                                   4) congratulates Mr Pistorius for his tenacity, for his desire
                                                      to push boundaries, for his belief in his abilities, and
                                                      wishes him well during the competition; and
                                                   5) wishes the whole of Team SA the best of luck, and hopes
                                                      that the team will make South Africa proud.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                CONGRATULATIONS TO FIRST BLACK FEMALE MARINE PILOTS IN AFRICA GO
                                                                       GAIN OPEN LICENCES

                                                                       (Draft Resolution)

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Mr Speaker, I move
                                                without notice:

                                                  That the House –

                                                    1) notes that three South African women have set the standard
                                                       in Africa by becoming the first black female marine pilots
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                                                         on the continent to gain open licences, enabling them to
                                                         navigate ships of all sizes and types into local waters;

                                                    2) further notes that Precious Dube, Bongiwe Mbambo and Pinky
                                                       Zungu are three of only five female marine pilots in South
                                                       Africa tasked with guiding ships through dangerous or
                                                       congested waters, such as harbours; and
                                                    3)    congratulates   these   three   women   on   their   remarkable

                                                Agreed to.

                                                The SPEAKER: Are there any further motions without notice? You
                                                may take your seat, hon member, if there are no additional

                                                Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Speaker, I am always prepared to propose any
                                                motion you like, but there is something ...

                                                The SPEAKER: No, please take your seat, hon member. I am happy
                                                that there are no more motions. [Laughter.]

                                                                          MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                                                                      (The late Mr M H Fazzie)

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I move the
                                                motion printed in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority
                                                Party on the Order Paper as follows:

                                                  That the House –

                                                    1) notes with deep sadness the death of ANC struggle veteran
                                                       and former Member of Parliament, Mr Henry Fazzie, who died
                                                       after a short illness in hospital at Port Alfred in the
                                                       Eastern Cape at the age of 87;

                                                    2) further notes that Mr Fazzie was amongst the first
                                                       representatives of the ANC in Parliament during the era of
                                                       former President Nelson Mandela and served for more than
                                                       10 years;
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                                                    3) remembers that he was one of the volunteers of the ANC who
                                                       spearheaded the formation of the military wing of the ANC,
                                                       Umkhonto weSizwe, in the 1960s;

                                                    4) further remembers that Mr Fazzie was part of the
                                                       leadership of the Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation,
                                                       Pebco, which organised the consumer boycott in the 1980s,
                                                       made the western part of the Eastern Cape ungovernable,
                                                       culminating in the collapse of black local authorities in
                                                       the mid 1980s and played an important role in the
                                                       activities of the United Democratic Front and the Release
                                                       Mandela Campaign;

                                                    5) recalls that he also served a number of years in prison
                                                       during the apartheid years, serving 20 years in prison
                                                       under the Sabotage Act, which was later on appeal reduced
                                                       to 12 years;

                                                    6) believes that Mr Fazzie played a crucial role in the
                                                       liberation of South Africa from the tyranny of apartheid
                                                       to a united nonracial, nonsexist democratic and prosperous
                                                       South Africa; and

                                                    7) conveys its heartfelt condolences to the Fazzie family,
                                                       his wife, children and grandchildren, the ANC and the

                                                Mr S B FARROW: Speaker, it is a great honour for me to stand here
                                                today to pay tribute to the hon Henry Fazzie. He had all the
                                                characteristics of a true struggle veteran, having sacrificed
                                                over 21 years of his life on Robben Island and having gone
                                                through the rank and file of the United Democratic Front, UDF,
                                                where he was deputy secretary, and the ANC, which he joined in

                                                He came to Parliament in 1994, and I first got to know him in
                                                1999, when he served on the Portfolio Committee on Transport.
                                                With both of us coming from the Eastern Cape, we immediately
                                                struck up a friendship, which often got us talking about his
                                                smallholding, the weather, his garden and his livestock.

                                                We had something else in common: At that stage we both drove the
                                                same car. He often shocked me when he told me how fast he had
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                                                driven from Port Elizabeth to Cape Town for a meeting that day. I
                                                think he wanted to beat the scheduled flight. I have a horrible
                                                feeling that he didn’t like flying that much, but he certainly
                                                flew in his Cressida. I used to tease him about this, saying that
                                                as a stalwart of our Portfolio Committee on Transport, he
                                                shouldn’t travel that fast and should set an example for the rest
                                                of the motorists in our country. I emphasised that he was now
                                                getting too old to travel at those speeds, which he just laughed

                                                Hon Fazzie and my association with him in the transport portfolio
                                                also spilled over into the Parmed Medical Aid Scheme, where he
                                                served as a continuity member of the board of trustees. This was
                                                when he missed coming back to Parliament for a short period after
                                                the 2009 elections.

                                                His jovial nature and gentlemanly features with his-never-to-be-
                                                forgotten hat will always remain as permanent memory for me and,
                                                I am sure, all of his friends and colleagues who respected him as
                                                I did. His presence in these corridors will be sadly missed. May
                                                I therefore on behalf of the DA express our sincere condolences
                                                and sympathies to his wife, Buyiswa, his seven children and 21
                                                grandchildren and great-grandchildren, not forgetting, of course,
                                                his friends and colleagues in the ANC, which I know he served
                                                with honour and distinction. Hamba kahle [Goodbye], Tata Fazzie.
                                                May your soul rest in peace.

                                                Mna L J TOLO: Re bolela ka monna wa go t?ea gabotse, yo e lego
                                                gore ke ipona ke le mo ke emego nts?he ka lebaka la bophelo bja
                                                gagwe. Fazzie ke thomile go mo tseba ka 1994 ge re fihla mo go
                                                fihlela lehono. Se ke ratago go se bont?ha ke gore, ge re bala
                                                mangwalo, mo go Ditiro 16: 20-28, e bolela ka Poulo yo a ilego a
                                                ya kgolegong ya mamathing kua Roma, gomme o ile a ya kgolegong
                                                maikemi?et?o a gagwe e le go lokolla set?haba bokgobeng.

                                                Fazzie o ile a ya Robben Island maikemi?et?o a gagwe e e le go
                                                lokolla batho bokgobeng. O ka se bolele ka Poulo gore e be e le
                                                mogale, wa se bolele ka Fazzie. Mo go Kutullo 1:9, Johannes o ile
                                                a t?ewa a i?wa sehlakahlakeng sa Patmous, ka ge a be a thulant?ha
                                                mmu?o wa kgatelelo wa mmu?i wa pele e lego Herote. Fazzie le yena
                                                o ile a t? ewa a i?wa sehlakahlakeng sa Robben Island. Ka a
                                                mangwe mant?u o swanet?e go bona gore o ka se bolele ka boPoulo
                                                le boJohannes ka mo B bebeleng wa lebala go bolela ka Fazzie go
                                                swana le bona.

                                                Ka mant?u a mamngwe, ke nyaka go le bont?ha gore mokgalabje wo, e
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                                                be e le motho yo bogale, wa maikarabelo ao e lego gore lehono ge
                                                o ka lebelela maloba ge go be go le kotsi, le rena baruti re be
                                                re na le poifo ya go thulant?ha aparteiti ka bont?hi. Re be re na
                                                le poifo. Fela Fazzie, le ge go le bjalo, o ile a emelela a
                                                kwi?i?a gore o swanet?e gore a re hwele. Go bile ka tsela ya
                                                mohuta woo.

                                                Ba lekgotla la ANC, re le ba Cope, re kwele bohloko mmogo le
                                                lena. Ke ngwana a belegwa, ke wa batswadi ba babedi – ke wa monna
                                                le mosadi. Efela ge a hlokofala, ke wa rena kamoka ga rena. Ka
                                                gona, go robala ga Fazzie go bohloko go rena, re lla le lena, re
                                                na le lena, re kwele bohloko go swana le lena. Ke dumela gore ba
                                                ga Fazzie ba tsebae gore mokgots ei yoe mogolo wa Fazzie e be e
                                                le nna. Ke ile go kwa ke lehfu la gagwe, ka ba founela ke bot?i?a
                                                gore go direga eng, ba hlatholla gore ga a se le gona, o robet?e.
                                                Ke nyaka go bon?ha gore ke lla le lena.

                                                Mangwalo a makgethwa...o momgwe a seke a re ga re ka kerekeng, ee
                                                ga re ka kerekeng, re ka gare ga Ngwako. Fela ke boledi?wa ke
                                                gore Fazzie ga a fapane felo le BoJohannes le –Poulo. Re t?ea
                                                gore banna le bas adi ba maatla ba be ba le kua go boRoma le
                                                –Isiraele. Le gona mo ba bile gona ba ba swanago le boPoulo le
                                                –Johannes; ke bo mokgalabje Fazzie.

                                                Re re o e ikgathile tem a ya gagwe, re mo. Go rena re ?et?ego, eE
                                                ke re ka t?wet?a pele toro ya ga Fazzie go rena re ?et?ego re e
                                                t?wet?e pele ka khut?o. Moya wa gagwe a o robale ka khut?o modimo
                                                a mo gaugelea. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.] (Translation of Sepedi
                                                speech follows.)

                                                [Mr L J TOLO: This is an honourable man we are talking about. I
                                                am personally here because he sacrificed his life. I met Fazzie
                                                in 1994 when I got here. I would like to share with you Acts
                                                16:20-28 in the Bible that talks about when Paul was taken to
                                                prison in Rome. He was fighting for the release of his people
                                                from slavery. Fazzie was taken to Robben Island because he was
                                                fighting for the release of his people from slavery. You can
                                                never mention Paul as a hero and not mention Fazzie.

                                                In Revelation 1:9, John was taken to the island of Patmos because
                                                he was fighting against oppression brought about by king Herod.
                                                Fazzie was also taken to Robben Island. In the same breath, you
                                                cannot talk about Paul and John from the Bible and not mention

                                                I want to bring to your attention that this man was a hero – a
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                                                hero who sacrificed his life to free us from slavery. You need to
                                                look back and acknowledge that it was tough back then. As church
                                                leaders we had our fears in fighting against apartheid. We were
                                                scared; but Fazzie did it for us. That is how it is.

                                                As Cope members, we share the pain with the members of the ANC.
                                                When a child is born, the child belongs to his or her parents –
                                                the child belongs to a man and a woman. But when the child dies,
                                                we all share the loss. We are saddened by Fazzie’s death just
                                                like you; we share your pain.

                                                I believe that Fazzie’s family knows that I was Fazzie’s best
                                                friend. I called them after hearing about the sad news and they
                                                explained to me that he has passed on. Let me indicate that I am
                                                mourning his death with you. The word of God ... please do not
                                                tell me that we are not in church, because I know that we are now
                                                in the House. I am only saying this because Fazzie was just like
                                                John and Paul. We do believe that there were powerful men and
                                                women in Rome and Israel. We had people who were like Paul and
                                                John even amongst us, and Fazzie, the old man, was one of them.
                                                He ran his race.

                                                For those of us who are left behind, may we pursue Fazzie’s
                                                vision peacefully. May his soul rest in peace and experience
                                                God’s grace. Thank you. [Applause.]]

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Mr Speaker, hon members,
                                                I stand before this House on behalf of the IFP and its president,
                                                Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, to offer solemn words of sympathy to
                                                the dear family and friends of the late struggle veteran, Mr
                                                Fazzie, and to the community of the ANC for this loss.

                                                I will not talk about Mr Fazzie’s magnanimous and heroic deeds in
                                                the struggle for the liberation of our people from oppression.
                                                There are hon members in this House who can talk about that with
                                                penetrating eloquence and emotions befitting the occasion. I will
                                                not give an account of the courageous sacrifices he made,
                                                alongside many others, for us to enjoy these freedoms and
                                                liberties. There are those among his close comrades who can give
                                                such testimony with unequivocal authority.

                                                However, when I silently reminisce about my early stay here in
                                                the city, particularly in Pelican Park, the parliamentary
                                                village, I think of the warm acquaintances I had with the late
                                                Henry Makgothi, the late Wilton Mkwayi and, now, with the late
                                                Henry Fazzie himself. Therefore words of comfort to us all must
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                                                come from Spinoza’s brief exhortation on or consideration of the
                                                Ethics of Death. He says:

                                                  The universe is stronger than we are. Nature is stronger than
                                                  we are. This is why we die. To live is to struggle, resist,
                                                  survive, and no one can do this indefinitely. In the end, we
                                                  must die, and this is the only end that we can be certain of.
                                                  To think about death constantly would be to think too much
                                                  about it. But never to think about it would be to give up
                                                  thinking. Besides, no one is completely free; no one is
                                                  supremely wise. This leaves thoughts of death to happy days or
                                                  gruelling nights, which we must accept.

                                                May the soul of Mr Henry Fazzie rest in peace and may the good
                                                Lord comfort those left behind.

                                                Mr N M KGANYAGO: Speaker and hon members, on behalf of the UDM I
                                                would like to extend our heartfelt condolences to the family, the
                                                ANC and friends of the late hon Henry Mutile Fazzie, who passed
                                                away last weekend. Our hearts go out to you during this hour of

                                                Mr Fazzie played a leading role in organising various consumer
                                                boycotts in the 1980s. Like other members of his generation, he
                                                spent his life fighting for the liberation of our people.

                                                After a long life devoted to the struggle for liberation, he
                                                became a member of South Africa’s first democratically elected
                                                Parliament in 1994. The democracy we enjoy today, together with
                                                its institutions, exist because of the efforts of people like

                                                We bid farewell to him and hope that his family will find
                                                consolation in the words spoken here today.
                                                Robala ka khut?o. I?e Morena. [Rest in peace. Thank you.]

                                                Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, the ACDP joins this House in conveying its
                                                sincere condolences to the family and friends of the former
                                                Member of Parliament, Mr Henry Fazzie.

                                                The ACDP acknowledges the high esteem in which he was held in
                                                terms of the role he played in the struggle for nonracialism,
                                                nonsexism and a united and democratic South Africa, and we
                                                commend him for his commitment to democracy and social justice.

                                                We take note of the loss to the country’s history due to his not
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                                                having been able to share completely his recollections of the
                                                past in the history of the struggle. Mr Fazzie, who served
                                                Parliament for more than 10 years, is remembered and we recognise
                                                his death as a great loss to the ruling party and South Africa.

                                                Mr K J DIKOBO: Mr Speaker, hon members, the family of the late
                                                Comrade Fazzie, yet another stalwart of the liberation struggle
                                                has fallen. Comrade Fazzie is no more. In the 1980s, it would
                                                have been difficult to talk about the struggle in the Port
                                                Elizabeth area without mentioning the name of Comrade Fazzie. He
                                                was a tireless and fearless fighter, and he was an inspiration to
                                                the younger comrades.
                                                His contribution in the struggle for freedom and his service to
                                                the country through the consumer boycott committee, Port
                                                Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation and other structures will not
                                                be forgotten.

                                                On behalf of Azapo, I would like to convey a message of
                                                condolence to his family, friends and his party, the ANC. May his
                                                soul rest in peace. [Applause.]

                                                Mr N B FIHLA: Hon Speaker, Ministers and Members of Parliament,
                                                the ANC is deeply saddened by the death of Comrade Henry Mutile
                                                Fazzie in hospital in the Eastern Cape due to illness at the age
                                                of 87. Comrade Fazzie was a disciplined and dedicated stalwart of
                                                the movement.

                                                This veteran went through the ranks of the ANC, from being a
                                                volunteer to a unionist, commander of Umkhonto weSizwe, MK, and
                                                Member of Parliament. He proved that he possessed the attributes
                                                of a leader and gallant fighter during his military training in
                                                guerrilla warfare in Ethiopia.

                                                His service included military service in Umkhonto weSizwe, a term
                                                as vice president of the South African National Civic
                                                Organisation, Sanco, Service as a Member of Parliament and in
                                                other areas where the ANC saw fit to deploy him.

                                                In addition to his role as a soldier of the movement, he was
                                                tasked to facilitate the training and infiltration of guerrillas
                                                into the country to carry out acts of sabotage. In the early
                                                1960s he was captured by the South African security forces in the
                                                then southern Rhodesia, today known as Zimbabwe, and was
                                                transported to South Africa to stand trial.

                                                Consequently, in 1965, Comrade Fazzie was sentenced to 20 years
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                                                in prison under the Sabotage Act. He served 12 years of his
                                                prison term, which had been reduced on appeal, on Robben Island.
                                                Upon his release, Comrade Fazzie continued being active in the
                                                civic movement the Port Elizabeth Black Civic Organisation,
                                                Pebco, from 1983 to 1992, and later as the Sanco national
                                                chairperson from 1992 to 1994.

                                                Comrade Fazzie was among the leaders who waged an offensive
                                                against the oppressive government through the campaign for the
                                                total boycott of white shops in business in Port Elizabeth. These
                                                gallant leaders called for the unconditional release of all
                                                political leaders and the end of oppression of black people.

                                                When the government declared Port Elizabeth a hot spot, Comrade
                                                Fazzie was among the leaders targeted by the security forces, and
                                                some of whom were brutally killed, such as the Pebco three,
                                                Champion Galela, Qaqawuli Godolozi and Sipho Hashe. It was just
                                                fate that due to a last-minute change of plans Comrade Fazzie did
                                                not travel with those comrades who were killed by the security

                                                Comrade Fazzie was detained on two occasions in St Albans Prison,
                                                first for seven months and consequently for three years. Due to
                                                mounting pressure on government over the boycott campaigns, he
                                                was released and placed under house arrest. Even though he was
                                                banned, he continued to play a critical role in intensifying the
                                                struggle towards a nonracial, democratic South Africa.

                                                These were leaders in the defiance of that system; a defiance
                                                that was displayed when the ANC and SACP flags were hoisted
                                                during rallies at the Dan Qeqe Stadium and at funerals of
                                                activists murdered by the apartheid police and army. This was
                                                lifted when the ANC won a court application. The court ordered
                                                that the banning order be lifted because it was illegal and
                                                contained no valid reason or evidence given for it having been

                                                During the advent of the democratic dispensation, Comrade Fazzie
                                                was among the first ANC members deployed to serve the interests
                                                of the black people of South Africa in the national Parliament.
                                                This was a critical moment for Parliament as the legislating arm
                                                of the state. Parliament had to legislate in order to give effect
                                                to the new democratic dispensation. This meant that all the
                                                unjust laws needed to be repealed and amended and new legislation
                                                was also to be passed. This was indeed a challenge, and new
                                                members had to adjust quickly to the environment. He served his
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                                                term as a Member of Parliament with distinction. Indeed, this is
                                                a great loss to the ANC, family and friends.

                                                Comrade Fazzie leaves behind his wife, Hilda, two children and
                                                grandchildren. The ANC extends its heartfelt condolences to the
                                                family. May they be consoled by the knowledge that their father,
                                                grandfather and husband contributed immensely to the freedom they
                                                now have the opportunity to enjoy. May his soul rest in peace.

                                                Akuhlanga lungehlanga, tutwini. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Please accept
                                                what has happened as fate, be consoled. [Applause.]]

                                                Debate concluded.

                                                The SPEAKER: I take it that there are no objections to the
                                                adoption of the motion by the House. Hon members, you will
                                                remember that we usually only observe a moment of silence if a
                                                member passes away while in office. We will send the condolences
                                                of the House to the family, the ANC and the alliance as a whole.
                                                I thank you.
                                                Agreed to.

                                                CONCERN OVER AND DENUNCIATION OF KILLING OF WOMEN AND THE ELDERLY

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Nkskz P TSHWETE (ANC): I-ANC ixhalabile ngamaqondo aphezulu
                                                okugetyengwa nokubulawa ngokungenalusini kwabantu abadala,
                                                ingakumbi abantu ababhinqileyo, ngeli xesha sigqiba kubhiyozela
                                                usuku loomama kwinyanga yoomama. Isihelegu esimasikizi sehle
                                                kusapho lomfundisi osele ethathe umhlalaphantsi, uMfundisi uQona,
                                                kunye nenkosikazi yakhe abathe bagetyengwa ngokumasikizi endlini
                                                yabo eDikeni.

                                                Siyi-ANC siyazigxeka zonke iintlobo zolwaphulo-mthetho
                                                nobundlongela ezweni lethu. Sikwathembisa ukubuncothula
                                                neengcambu zabo ubundlongela, naphi na apho bukhoyo, nokuba
                                                benziwa ngubani na.

                                                Umbandela wokulwa ubundlobongela yenye yemingeni engundoqo
                                                kurhulumente we-ANC. Iinjongo zethu kukuqinisekisa ngokhuseleko
                                                oluluqilima lwabantu bonke kwiindawo abahlala kuzo.

                                                Kananjalo, siyawabulela amapolisa ngendima ayidlalileyo
                                                ngokukhawuleza abambe abarhanelwa abase eluvalelweni. Sithi
                                                nangamso kuwo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa member’s
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                                                statement follows.)

                                                [Mrs P TSHWETE (ANC): The ANC is concerned about the high rates
                                                of assault against and merciless manslaughter of old people,
                                                especially women, after we have just celebrated Women’s Day
                                                during this women’s month. This tragic incident happened at the
                                                family of Rev Qona, who had just retired. He was brutally
                                                murdered together with his wife in their home in Alice.

                                                As the ANC, we condemn all kinds of criminal acts and violence in
                                                our country. We also promise the total eradication of violence
                                                and the perpetrators, wherever they are.

                                                The issue of crime eradication is one of the major challenges
                                                that the ANC-led government is faced with. Our aim is to ensure
                                                that there is adequate security for all people in their

                                                However, we also commend the outstanding role played by our
                                                police officials in promptly arresting suspects. We thank you for
                                                that. [Applause.]]

                                                 FAILURE OF MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS TO APPEAR BEFORE PORTFOLIO

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mr N D DU TOIT (DA): Speaker, there is no excuse for the no-show
                                                of the Minister of Public Works, Gwen Mahlangu–Nkabinde, at the
                                                meeting of the parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Public Works
                                                earlier this week — a day after she missed the deadline to
                                                respond to the Public Protector’s report.

                                                She was due at this committee meeting to respond to the findings
                                                of the report and to account for her role in the SAPS lease
                                                scandal. The Minister’s excuse that she did not attend due to so-
                                                called parliamentary processes is flawed. There is no rule that
                                                prevents the Minister from appearing before the committee and her
                                                failure to do so has severely undermined the oversight role of

                                                Indeed, the Minister must account for her conduct and explain to
                                                the House why she did not fully co-operate with the Public
                                                Protector and why she approved the SAPS lease agreements after
                                                she had several legal opinions at her disposal which spoke to the
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                                                The executive has full authority to take the required corrective
                                                measures, in line with the Public Protector’s report and
                                                recommendations. The Minister must account for her actions.

                                                The DA will continue to work tirelessly in ensuring that all
                                                those implicated in the scandal are brought to book and
                                                prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. It is for this
                                                reason that I have written to the portfolio committee’s
                                                chairperson to exercise our committee’s powers to summon the
                                                Minister to appear before the committee. [Applause.]

                                                              ATTACK ON CONCOURT JUDGES BY THE ANC

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mr W M MADISHA (Cope): Speaker, Cope is deeply concerned about
                                                the attack by the ANC’s secretary-general on the judges of the
                                                Constitutional Court, Concourt. His remarks that Concourt judges
                                                were driven by selfish interest and are seen as being in
                                                opposition to ... [Interjections.] ...

                                                The SPEAKER: Order, hon members, and please take your seats!

                                                Mr W M MADISHA (Cope): ... the ANC are totally out of line for a
                                                ruling party that pledged support to the Constitution and
                                                separation of powers between the executive and the judiciary.

                                                Comments that the judges are threatening the stability of
                                                government are reckless and in line with the kind of
                                                pronouncements made in an authoritarian state. Also, his comments
                                                on those who expressed concern about the lack of experience of
                                                the nominated Chief Justice are racist and outrageous.

                                                Cope calls on the President to tone down the noises coming from
                                                the ranks of its party officials. Just as it appears that the
                                                president of the youth league of the ruling party was somewhat
                                                silenced, Mr Mantashe makes ridiculous statements that call for
                                                the repudiation of the ANC leadership.

                                                           GAUTENG INCREASES INTAKE OF STUDENT NURSES

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Ms M R MORUTOA (ANC): The ANC welcomes the move and commitment by
                                                the Gauteng department of health and social development to
                                                increase the intake of nursing students in the next five years to
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                                                help build an effective health system. The department is looking
                                                at increasing the intake of student nurses by close to 400%, with
                                                2 660 new nursing students expected to be recruited to start
                                                training in 2012.

                                                As such, the department will advertise health science   bursaries
                                                by the end of August 2011, with the next nurse intake   being in
                                                January 2012. This is despite the 20% annual increase   of students
                                                admitted to these colleges for training over the past   eight

                                                The ANC views health as one of the key priority areas. Therefore
                                                this initiative is in line with the ANC’s commitment to improve
                                                quality standards for both public and private sectors by
                                                providing adequate numbers of workers at all levels of the health
                                                care system, including with regard to recruitment, training and
                                                the filling of vacant posts.

                                                                  AIRCRAFT DISASTER IN TZANEEN

                                                                       (Member’s Statement)
                                                Prof C T MSIMANG (IFP): Hon Speaker, the IFP would like to extend
                                                its heartfelt condolences to the victims of the recent air
                                                disaster north-east of Tzaneen. It has been reported that the
                                                aircraft were flying too low and in poor visibility when the
                                                crashes occurred.

                                                These accidents claimed the lives of 13 people, including two
                                                children and a well-known South African photographer. A loss of
                                                life in any circumstance other than natural death is utterly
                                                tragic and we trust that the Civil Aviation Authority will
                                                conduct a full and thorough investigation into these accidents in
                                                order to ensure that accidents such as these do not occur again.
                                                Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of the deceased.

                                                             DISTURBING INCREASE IN VIOLENT STRIKES

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mr S Z NTAPANE (UDM): There is a growing tendency in South Africa
                                                where people derive seemingly perverse pleasure from acts that
                                                are contradictory to the rule of law. Every year we brace
                                                ourselves for a strike season that is more often than not
                                                characterised by a lawless passion for anarchy, violence and
                                                public disorder.
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                                                Of concern is that student strikes at our tertiary institutions
                                                seem to have assumed the same culture of lawlessness. Violent
                                                student strikes have become a regular occurrence in South Africa,
                                                with students destroying university and private property with

                                                While the UDM understands the importance of a dispensation that
                                                guarantees the people’s right to strike, the government urgently
                                                needs to find ways to counter this disturbing phenomenon. Nothing
                                                is more disconcerting than watching our future leaders acting in
                                                ways that constitute a perversion of the true meaning of
                                                          LAUNCH OF ENYOKENI SUBSTATION IN KWAZULU-NATAL

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                UMntwana B Z ZULU (ANC): Ekugcizeleleni ukuzinikela kombutho
                                                kaKhongolose ekuthuthukiseni izindawo zasemakhaya, uMongameli
                                                uNxamalala wethule isikhungo eNyokeni kweleNdlovukazi uMthaniya
                                                esibize izigidi ezingama-42 zamarandi.

                                                Abantu abaningi ezindaweni zasemakhaya KwaZulu-Natali sebenawo
                                                ugesi ngenxa yalesi sikhungo esethulwe ngokaNxamalala, njengoba
                                                abantu baKwaNongoma abayizi-9 200 sebefakelwe ugesi kule minyaka
                                                emithathu eyedlule. Isikhungo lesi saseNyokeni esivulwe
                                                nguMongameli uJacob Zuma sinamandla okuphakela imindeni eyi-
                                                15 000.

                                                Lolu hlelo luyingxenye yoMnyango Wezamandla kanye nezinhlelo zika-
                                                Eskom zokubhekana nokuthuthukiswa kwezindawo zasemakhaya,
                                                kubhekene ngqo nokufakelwa kukagesi kwabantu bakithi labo ebebe
                                                ngenawo esifundeni esifana nesakithi KwaZulu-Natali. Lolu hlelo,
                                                Somlomo, lubonisa ukuzinikela kukakhongolose ekuletheni intuthuko
                                                emiphakathini yakithi ikakhulukazi leyo eyakhe ezindaweni
                                                zasemakhaya. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu member’s
                                                statement follows.)

                                                [Prince B Z ZULU (ANC): In emphasising the commitment of the ANC
                                                to the development of the rural areas, President Nxamalala has
                                                built a substation in Enyokeni at Her Majesty Mthaniya’s palace
                                                which cost R42 million.

                                                Many people in the rural areas in KwaZulu-Natal have electricity
                                                now because of the substation that was built by Nxamalala as 9
                                                200 residents of KwaNongoma have received electricity connections
                                                in the past three years. This substation of Enyokeni that was
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                                                built by President Jacob Zuma has power to supply 15 000

                                                This is part of the Department of Energy and Eskom’s programmes
                                                of dealing with the development of the rural areas, and dealing
                                                directly with connecting electricity for the people of our
                                                province who did not have access to it previously. This
                                                programme, Mr Speaker, shows the ANC’s commitment to bringing
                                                development to our communities, especially those in the rural
                                                areas. Thank you.]

                                                        GREEN PAPER ON NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE WELCOMED
                                                                       (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mrs C DUDLEY (ACDP): Speaker, the ACDP welcomes the Green Paper
                                                on the National Health Insurance. We recognise the desperate need
                                                for a radical turnaround in the delivery of health services. We
                                                are optimistic that, with all stakeholders applying their
                                                experience and expertise, we could move from merely repeating
                                                problems to actually delivering much-needed quality health
                                                services to all.

                                                The immediate response tends to be: Yes, but we cannot afford it.
                                                While this may be true, we certainly can’t afford not to do all
                                                in our power to see that we can. Everyone deserves quality health
                                                care and financing is always a problem.

                                                The National Health Insurance, NHI, is a tried and tested
                                                mechanism which attempts to give cover to all. Of course, our
                                                experience and our needs will be uniquely our own, but even so,
                                                the fact that we can benefit from the trials, errors and
                                                successes of other countries is a definite advantage — if we are
                                                not too proud to learn and benefit.

                                                Having observed the United Kingdom, UK, National Health System
                                                from near and far — for even the most limited period of time - I
                                                am encouraged that as monstrous as the task seems, it really
                                                could work. It really could bring much-needed relief in an area
                                                where we are struggling to get it right.

                                                It is also interesting to me that one of our biggest concerns is
                                                always that we will lose more doctors and nurses than we already
                                                have. Clearly, if we don’t do something, nothing will change. The
                                                reality in the UK is that doctors and nurses moved towards the
                                                National Health System, not away from it.
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                                                The present health care system is extremely expensive and
                                                unsustainable. However, firstly, there needs to be a radical
                                                improvement in the quality of health care services in public
                                                health facilities, which will require massive investment and
                                                improvement of health infrastructure, both buildings and
                                                equipment. The first five years of the NHI will focus on piloting
                                                and strengthening the health care system.

                                                Once the NHI is implemented, it will become mandatory and offer
                                                all South Africans and legal residents access to a defined
                                                package of comprehensive health care. It will be piloted in 2012
                                                to test how the service benefits will be designed, how the
                                                population will be covered and how the services will be
                                                delivered. A conditional grant will be provided for this purpose
                                                and no NHI contributions will be required in 2012. [Time

                                                    RECOMMENDATION THAT SYRIAN GOVERNMENT BE INVESTIGATED BY
                                                                  INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA): Hon Speaker, the DA welcomes the
                                                recommendation by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human
                                                Rights, Navi Pillay, to the United Nations Security Council that
                                                the Syrian government be investigated by the International
                                                Criminal Court in light of what they believe to be a grave
                                                violation of human rights in Syria.

                                                Pro-democracy protests in Syria have been met with contempt by
                                                that government, which has violently cracked down on its own
                                                people’s call for democracy during the last five months. An
                                                estimated 2 000 civilians have been killed at the hands of the
                                                Syrian government since the protest erupted, and a further 4 000
                                                refugees have fled to Turkey during this period in the wake of
                                                brutality. The DA strongly believes that the International
                                                Criminal Court will investigate the situation in a serious
                                                attempt to put an end to the violence.

                                                We call upon the South African government to use its nonpermanent
                                                position in the United Nations Security Council to support this
                                                effort. As a country, young in its democracy, it is our duty to
                                                support the peaceful democratisation of other countries,
                                                especially those that look to the international community for
                                                support, as we ourselves have done in the past.
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                                                    ANC WELCOMES PRESS FREEDOM COMMISSION’S REVISED TERMS OF

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Ms A Z NDLAZI (ANC): The ANC welcomes the revised terms of
                                                reference of the Press Freedom Commission, PFC. We believe that
                                                the scope of work outlined in the revised terms of reference will
                                                go a long way in improving press governance and accountability,
                                                particularly in the print media.

                                                The PFC’s revised terms of reference will, among others, include
                                                the conducting of research with regard to the regulation of the
                                                print media, locally and globally. The revised framework will
                                                also research self-regulation, coregulation and independent
                                                regulation, as well as state regulation.

                                                Within the above-mentioned accountability mechanisms, we are
                                                pleased that the Press Freedom Commission will come up with the
                                                best accountability mechanism or framework suitable for our
                                                country and in conformity with our progressive Constitution.

                                                As the ANC, we still believe in the need for an appeals
                                                accountability mechanism in the event of ordinary South Africans
                                                being unhappy with the outcomes of the press self-regulatory
                                                accountability mechanism. We believe that the media appeals
                                                accountability mechanism should provide recourse in the event
                                                that South Africans are not happy with the outcomes of the self-
                                                regulatory mechanism. Such media appeals accountability should
                                                not be a prepublished censorship, but it should conform to our
                                                constitutional principles and should not be beholden to the
                                                media, the state and commercial interests.

                                                We therefore believe that the self-regulatory system or framework
                                                is able to coexist with and be complemented by the appeals
                                                accountability mechanism. [Applause.]

                                                        FINANCIAL CRISIS AT THE WALTER SISULU UNIVERSITY

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP): Hon Speaker, the Walter Sisulu
                                                University is in the intensive care unit, ICU. The cash-strapped
                                                university staff and lecturers have downed tools and lectures
                                                have ground to a halt over the nonpayment of salaries. Both the
                                                vice chancellor, Prof Marcus Malusi Balintulo, and the council
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                                                chairperson, Dr Somadoda Fikeni, have admitted that the
                                                institution is facing a serious financial crisis.

                                                These developments have the potential to seriously compromise the
                                                academic integrity and reputation of the university and the field
                                                of higher education in South Africa as a whole. They also point
                                                to a possible serious problem in the governance and financial
                                                management of the university, which is undermining the effective
                                                functioning of the institution.

                                                While the IFP welcomes the announcement that Minister Blade
                                                Nzimande has ordered a probe into the crisis at the university,
                                                the department is reportedly saying that they will and are still
                                                in the process of identifying a suitable person to conduct an
                                                audit. We want to argue that this is not good enough. The IFP
                                                urges the Department of Higher Education and Training to expedite
                                                the process and the probe so that challenges can be identified
                                                and the way forward agreed upon and, if necessary, place the
                                                institution under administration, and this must be treated as a
                                                matter of urgency.

                                                               WORK OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR IN LIMPOPO

                                                                       (Member’s Statement)
                                                Mr G B D MCINTOSH (Cope): Mr Speaker, Cope welcomes the call by
                                                the Public Prosecutor, or PP, Thuli Madonsela, to boost her
                                                office’s functions, resources and outreach programmes in the
                                                Limpopo province. With its 5 million people, Limpopo province has
                                                one office of the PP, in Polokwane, with a staff of 16, half of
                                                whom make up the investigation unit. Cope agrees that there are
                                                capacity problems to be addressed.

                                                Recently, the province has been riddled by a number of
                                                allegations of corrupt activities from the premier’s office,
                                                right down to suspicious tender procurements, allegedly
                                                influenced by Julius Malema and his family trust.
                                                [Interjections.] Calls were made to Thuli Madonsela’s office to
                                                investigate delays in the processing of identity documents, abuse
                                                of social welfare grants, shoddy and incomplete housing and road
                                                projects, among other infringements.

                                                With the increasing amount of work that the PP has been involved
                                                in and the media glare on its activities and pronouncements, it
                                                is the constitutional right of the people of Limpopo to be
                                                serviced optimally by this office. [Interjections.]
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                                                Prof B TUROK: On a point of order: I think the hon member should
                                                address the House correctly. Adv Thuli Madonsela is the Head of
                                                the Public Protector, not of the public prosecutor. When speaking
                                                about her, we should use the appropriate title. She is an
                                                advocate and that will show respect in this House. [Applause.]

                                                Mr G B D MCINTOSH (Cope): Mr Speaker, my apologies to the hon

                                                     HOUSING PROJECT FOR THE HOMELESS IN NORTH WEST PROVINCE

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Ms J MANGANYE (ANC): The North West provincial government, which
                                                is led by the ANC, is set to change the lives of homeless people
                                                in that province in its bid to increase access to secure, decent
                                                housing for all through government’s newly adopted housing
                                                programme. It has set aside R23 million to help them get decent

                                                This housing development project is meant for informal settlement
                                                dwellers of Reagile Township, Redirile and Derby, outside
                                                Korster. It is expected to commence soon and 129 units will be

                                                This initiative is in line with the assertion contained in the
                                                clause in the Freedom Charter that says “there shall be houses,
                                                security and comfort”. The clause stipulates that -

                                                     Slums shall be demolished, and new suburbs built where all
                                                     have transport, roads, lighting, playing fields, crèches and
                                                     social centres.
                                                Hi khensa mfumo wa North West loko wu vonile swi fanerile ku
                                                endlela vaaki va wona swo antswa. [We would like to thank the
                                                North West government, which has found it appropriate to do
                                                something better for its community.]

                                                                      MISMANAGEMENT OF SABC

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Mnr N J VAN DEN BERG (DA): Mnr die Speaker, die regering kan
                                                gerus selfondersoek doen oor die benarde, terminale toestand van
                                                die SAUK. Terloops, baie geluk, SAUK, met die 75ste verjaardag.
                                                Jammer dat julle dit in die intensiewe sorgeenheid moes vier.
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                                                Die personeel se moed is gebreek, omdat die bestuur van die SAUK
                                                die organisasie ondergrawe. Die personeel is egter ook die
                                                belangrikste bate van die uitsaaier. Hulle moet gekoester, omarm
                                                en mooi na gekyk word. Indien die werkers knak, is alles verby.

                                                Die regerende party moet homself afvra hoekom die finansies van
                                                die SAUK ’n sinkende skuitjie in die oseaan is. Die finansiële
                                                situasie is erger as beroerd.

                                                Sedert 1994 was daar al tien direkteurs-generaal, DG’s, of hoof
                                                uitvoerende beamptes. Die SAUK-raadslede het met ’n eentonige
                                                reëlmaat gekom en gegaan. Voorsitters het verskyn en net so
                                                vinnig weer verdwyn. Dis nie snaaks dat daar al weer ’n vakature
                                                op die raad is nie.

                                                Dit is waar dat die Parlement raadslede aanbeveel vir goedkeuring
                                                deur die President, maar wie het altyd die laaste sê oor wie die
                                                SAUK beheer? Die ANC besluit wie op die raad dien en wie die hoof
                                                uitvoerende beampte is. In wese besluit die ANC dus hoe die SAUK
                                                bestuur moet word. Wie is dus verantwoordelik vir die swak
                                                besluite? Wie kan onderliggend, in wese, nie bestuur nie?

                                                Daar is briljante mense in ons land wat die SAUK en die land met
                                                graagte sou wil dien, maar hulle is dalk nie gedienstige Neelsie
                                                genoeg na die regering se sin nie. Dalk is dit tot die regering
                                                se voordeel dat die SAUK as openbare uitsaaier uiteindelik sink.
                                                Dan kan die staat behoorlik finansieel ingryp, die
                                                finansieringsmodel hervorm en, siedaar, die SAUK is nou ten volle
                                                ’n staatsuitsaaier wat na die belange van die staat omsien en nie
                                                die mense nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s
                                                statement follows.)

                                                [Mr N J VAN DEN BERG (DA): Hon Speaker, the government should
                                                undoubtedly do some introspection regarding the critical,
                                                terminal condition of the SABC. By the way, congratulations on
                                                the SABC’s 75th birthday. It is rather a pity that they have to
                                                celebrate the occasion in the intensive care unit.

                                                The staff feel demoralised due to the fact that the management of
                                                the SABC has undermined the organisation. However, the staff also
                                                constitute the most important asset of the SABC. They ought to be
                                                cherished, embraced, and well looked after. If the workforce
                                                falls apart, everything is lost.

                                                The ruling party should ask themselves the question why the
                                                financial state of the SABC is tantamount to a sinking ship in
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                                                the ocean. The financial situation is worse than rotten.

                                                Thus far there has been 10 directors-general, DGs, or chief
                                                executive officers since 1994. The SABC board members have come
                                                and gone with monotonous regularity. Chairpersons have appeared
                                                and disappeared again just as fast. It is therefore not out of
                                                the ordinary to have a vacancy on the board once more.

                                                It is true that Parliament recommends members for approval by the
                                                President, but who has the last say about who should be in
                                                control of the SABC? The ANC decides who serves on the board and
                                                who the chief executive officer will be. In essence, it is the
                                                ANC that determines how the SABC should be run. Who is thus
                                                responsible for the poor decision-making? Underlying this fact,
                                                who then in essence is incapable of managing?

                                                There are brilliant people in our country who would be keen to
                                                serve the SABC and the country, but they may not be subservient
                                                enough to serve as lackeys, in the government’s opinion. Maybe it
                                                is to the government’s advantage that the SABC, as a public
                                                broadcaster, eventually founders. Then the state could make a
                                                proper financial intervention, reform the funding model, and, lo
                                                and behold, the SABC could be a fully fledged public broadcaster
                                                protecting the interests of the state and not the people.

                                                                  SABC CELEBRATES 75TH BIRTHDAY

                                                                      (Member’s Statement)

                                                Ms S T NDABENI (ANC): Hon Speaker, the South African Broadcasting
                                                Corporation celebrated its 75th year of existence on 1 August
                                                2011. South Africans, our public broadcaster has moved from being
                                                a bilingual radio station in Afrikaans and English to the current
                                                18 radio stations in all 11 official languages, and three
                                                television channels.

                                                The public broadcaster has continued to excel in keeping South
                                                African citizens educated, informed, entertained and inspired
                                                throughout the years. The ANC therefore congratulates the
                                                national public broadcaster for leading us to its 75th birthday.

                                                Khula SABC khula! [Grow, SABC, grow! [Applause.]]

                                                   CONCERN OVER AND DENUNUNCIATION OF KILLING OF WOMEN AND THE
                                                   ELDERLY ATTACK ON CONCOURT JUDGES BY THE ANC GREEN PAPER ON
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                                                                    NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE
                                                               WORK OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR IN LIMPOPO

                                                                      (Minister’s Response)

                                                The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY - NATIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION:
                                                Chairperson, I would like to respond to a few statements. The
                                                first is the hon Dunjwa’s statement on the brutal murder in

                                                I think that part of what we must do is to take these kinds of
                                                examples and raise the profile of values and ethics in society.
                                                It is important that Parliament pauses and takes note of the
                                                murder, but also of other events, such as the one recorded on the
                                                front page of the Sowetan on Monday. Society is in need of a
                                                wider discourse about values and mutual respect, and it is
                                                something that I believe Parliament should be involved with.

                                                In respect of what the hon Madisha said, I want to invite him to
                                                read the Sowetan — not the headlines, but the Sowetan article
                                                itself — because if he had read what the secretary-general, Mr
                                                Mantashe, said, he would not have said what he did in his
                                                statement this afternoon. I do not know what his source of
                                                information is, but it clearly is not the article on page two of
                                                the Sowetan. What the secretary-general of the ANC was saying was
                                                that it was unfair to suggest that Justice Mogoeng was too
                                                immature or had too little experience, because he had been a
                                                judge since 1997.

                                                In the context of the President having called for restraint in
                                                the ad hominem attacks on Judge Mogoeng, it is important that we
                                                have a rational discourse about it. Moreover, what the secretary
                                                — general said - and it should be in the interests of all of us
                                                in Parliament — is that we should be concerned about judicial
                                                activism which will, in fact, undermine trias politica and
                                                overtake the responsibilities of Parliament in lawmaking. Those
                                                are the concerns raised, and they are not the kinds of issues
                                                that the hon Madisha purports the secretary-general said or
                                                attributes to him.

                                                I am very encouraged by the hon Dudley’s statement on the
                                                National Health Insurance, the NHI. South African doctors have
                                                left to join the National Health Service, NHS, in the UK and the
                                                publicly funded health system in Canada. Now, we can keep them at
                                                home and we can all do this together.
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                                                However, it is necessary that we, as South Africans, recognise
                                                the importance of the provision of health for all, in the letter
                                                and spirit of the Constitution. Let us deal with the issues and
                                                accept the principle. Then we can work through the detail,
                                                learning as we proceed, and being committed to learn and
                                                undertake that learning process. So, I thank you and the ACDP
                                                very much for your commitment.

                                                On the issue raised by the hon McIntosh – it is McIntosh, not
                                                Makhathini, but McIntosh ... [Laughter.] ... I just want to
                                                caution that we should not get too hot under the collar. When
                                                individuals go around the country campaigning for more money for
                                                what they do outside of a budget process, then we should be
                                                concerned. When they also campaign for all kinds of bodyguards,
                                                police escorts and so on, we should be a little bit concerned.
                                                So, let us not be too excited. Let us look at the work of the
                                                Public Protector in the broader context. That is within the realm
                                                of what Parliament should do in budgetary oversight.

                                                 GAUTENG INCREASES INTAKE OF STUDENT NURSES AIRCRAFT DISASTER IN
                                                     INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT ANC WELCOMES PRESS FREEDOM
                                                 COMMISSION’S REVISED TERMS OF REFERENCE FINANCIAL CRISIS AT THE
                                                  WALTER SISULU UNIVERSITY HOUSING PROJECT FOR THE HOMELESS IN
                                                                       NORTH WEST PROVINCE

                                                                      (Minister’s Response)

                                                The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Hon Speaker, I would like
                                                to comment on the welcome development with respect to health
                                                professionals, which was referred to by the hon member of the
                                                ANC. We certainly are determined, as government, to ensure that
                                                we provide resources for the increased training of health
                                                professionals in South Africa, in particular nurses, auxiliary
                                                health support staff, as well as doctors. We are very pleased
                                                that the hon member noted the additional resources being provided
                                                for such training in the form of bursaries and scholarships.

                                                Secondly, we agree with the hon member from the IFP that the
                                                Civil Aviation Authority needs to carry out a full investigation
                                                into the airplane crash that occurred in Limpopo, and we extend
                                                our condolences to the families that have lost loved ones in this
                                                terrible tragedy.

                                                With respect to the calls made by the UN’s human rights
                                                commissioner regarding Syria, of course we say that all breaches
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                                                of human rights need to be attended to and that the rights of
                                                citizens to participate in free democratic activity must be
                                                observed by all countries in the world. This is the position that
                                                our government holds and we would attach to that.

                                                We also agree with the ANC that we do need appeals accountability
                                                mechanisms that ensure that citizens’ rights are upheld while we
                                                continue to uphold respect for freedom of expression and media
                                                freedom in our country.

                                                Finally, I thought that the Minister of Higher Education and had
                                                Training already appointed a person to investigate matters at
                                                Walter Sisulu University, as well as made an appointment with
                                                respect to the Tshwane University of Technology. I will check the
                                                name, but I thought it was Professor Ncayiyana. I check and will
                                                be able to provide the hon member of the IFP with information. I
                                                know that the Minister of Higher Education and Training is taking
                                                this matter very, very seriously.

                                                Re itumela thata Modulasetilo fa re utlwa gore puso ya rona ya
                                                Bokone Bophirima e lebeletse gore re thusa batho ba rona jang ka
                                                go ba neela dintlo tse di tshwanetseng, re leka go rarabolola
                                                mathata a batho ba ba senang dintlo, segolobogolo fa re leba
                                                ditorotswana jaaka Koster le Derby.

                                                Re itumela thata fa re bona puso e e tshwerweng ke mme e bile ka
                                                mme a tshwara thipa ka fa bogaleng. Ke ene yo o dirang gore batho
                                                ba rona ba nne le dintlo tse di ikemetseng tse di dirang gore le
                                                bone e nne batho ba ba nang le seriti mme ba ipona ba thusiwa ke
                                                puso ya rona ya Aforika borwa ya ANC. Ke a itumela Mmusakgotla.
                                                (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

                                                [We are   very happy to hear that the North West government is
                                                looking   at the way we help our people by providing houses for
                                                them as   we try to solve homelessness problems, particularly when
                                                we look   at small towns like Koster and Derby.

                                                We are excited to see a province run by a woman since a woman
                                                keeps things intact. It is through her leadership that people
                                                have proper houses to restore their dignity and get to realise
                                                that our South African government led by the ANC is helping them.
                                                Thank you, Speaker.]

                                                The SPEAKER: That concludes the ministerial responses. I was not
                                                inviting you to leave, Minister, I was just saying the responses
                                                are finished. [Laughter.]
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                                                Dr J C KLOPPERS-LOURENS: Speaker, on a point of order: I know
                                                that we have two formidable Ministers here, but according to the
                                                Rules, we actually have one Minister or a Deputy Minister or a
                                                Minister in the same portfolio who can respond to Members’
                                                Statements. I believe that it is important for this House that
                                                all members, including members of the executive, observe the
                                                Rules of the House. Thank you.

                                                The SPEAKER: I am not sure of that, but I will check the Hansard
                                                and come back with a ruling on that issue.

                                                           THE REVITALISATION OF INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES

                                                                    (Subject for Discussion)

                                                Ms T B SUNDUZA: Hon Speaker, hon guests and members, thank you
                                                very much.

                                                Ndicela kuthi kuni, irholeni. Niyaphila bo? Ekhethu siyaphila.
                                                Akhe simamelane. [I would like to say to you: How are you? We are
                                                fine. Let us listen to each other.]

                                                I have just spoken isiHlubi, which is the language that I speak
                                                at home, and unfortunately I can see that hon members cannot
                                                understand what I have just said.

                                                I would like to quote Nelson Mandela, who once said:

                                                  If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to
                                                  his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his

                                                The national conference of the ANC at Polokwane took a decision
                                                that indigenous languages be promoted at all schools, with the
                                                aim of learners being taught in their mother tongue. We link the
                                                development of indigenous languages with the liberation of our
                                                country from the legacy of apartheid.

                                                The concept of indigenous languages refers to Sesotho, Setswana,
                                                Siswati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, English, IsiHlubi,
                                                IsiZulu and many other languages. I mention Afrikaans because we
                                                must take cognisance of the fact that Afrikaans is also an
                                                indigenous language. There are other indigenous languages that
                                                are called dialects by those who are learned, for example
                                                IsiMpondo, IsiBhaca, Khelobedu, Nama and Xirikwa.
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                                                My focus, inter alia, is on the promotion of indigenous languages
                                                and multilingualism in schools and tertiary institutions in our
                                                country. The reality of the situation in our country is that
                                                English is promoted at virtually all levels of society, at the
                                                expense of this country’s indigenous languages. This causes
                                                problems particularly for students who do not speak English as
                                                their first language. It also promotes the perception that
                                                citizens and students who are not English-speaking are inferior
                                                and not entitled to equal treatment.

                                                Even at places of work, some companies force African employees to
                                                speak English. Recently, employees who were speaking Xitsonga
                                                were fired. Teachers also contribute to this, because they tell
                                                children that they must first understand English, and that
                                                English must be spoken, even at home. If you go into African
                                                homes today, you will find that the culture is in decline. The
                                                children cannot speak any African language. They only speak

                                                The Constitution recognises all 11 official languages of South
                                                Africa. These were all provided for by the Ready to Govern
                                                document of the ANC in 1992. Both the Ready to Govern document
                                                and the Constitution recognise the historically diminished use
                                                and status of the indigenous languages of our people.

                                                Increasing pressure is being brought to bear on speakers of
                                                indigenous languages in order for them to receive instruction in
                                                our schools and universities in only one South African language
                                                that is not an indigenous language. Research shows that the
                                                African continent is the only continent where the majority of
                                                children start their schooling in a foreign language. Surely this
                                                must result in poor education and the marginalisation of our
                                                You can express yourself better in your own home language. In
                                                government interviews, our own African people perform poorly
                                                because they are forced to speak English. It does not mean that
                                                the person does not know the job; the person fails the interview
                                                because they are forced to speak English. It is not that you are
                                                stupid, but the moment you speak English, people think you are
                                                clever. It is just a language!

                                                Children from Afrikaans-speaking homes go to school, speak
                                                English at school, and when they return home they speak
                                                Afrikaans. I do not see why it is a challenge for our own
                                                Africans to do the same.
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                                                The perception that instruction in English is essential in order
                                                to be internationally competitive is considerably smaller outside
                                                developing countries. It is clear that most universities and
                                                schools in developed countries emphasise mother-tongue
                                                instruction. The schools and tertiary institutions that offer
                                                their instruction in English are those in the USA, the United
                                                Kingdom, Australia and so on. There, instruction takes place in
                                                English because English is the students’ first language — it is
                                                their mother tongue. In countries such as Japan, Germany, France
                                                and Holland, instruction is offered in those students’ mother

                                                Where it is possible, regional co-operation should be encouraged.
                                                The Southern African Development Community, SADC, framework
                                                provides the most readily available structure for this. In the
                                                dissemination of human rights literature, special attention
                                                should be directed towards those whose voices have been silenced.

                                                If you want to overthrow a country, you start by diminishing the
                                                language. You wipe out the language. That’s what the apartheid
                                                policies did. They sought to eradicate our own languages, so that
                                                the people would not be united. Language also brings unity. It is
                                                part of culture and heritage. Some languages were marginalised to
                                                such an extent that we as Africans also say that other languages,
                                                like Tshivenda, Xitsonga and the Khoi and San languages, are
                                                inferior. Last weekend the President met with the Khoi, Nama and
                                                San people because they also want to revive their own languages.

                                                Language loss separates people from the richness of their culture
                                                and heritage. It prevents them from living their full cultural
                                                identity. It weakens cultural traditions and leads to
                                                fragmentation and the loss of community. The dominant culture is
                                                subsequently deprived of such people’s cultural diversity.

                                                Language is one of the main tools that are used to express ideas,
                                                emotions, knowledge, memories and values. Language is also the
                                                main vehicle for the cultural expression that is essential for
                                                individual and collective identity. Language is very important in
                                                any culture. A language does far more than just allowing people
                                                to communicate with each other.

                                                We are aware that there are costs involved in promoting
                                                indigenous languages at all levels of education. We are aware of
                                                the fact that the financial costs of multilingualism at schools
                                                and tertiary institutions are naturally higher than those at
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                                                monolingual institutions. However, in our view of the diversity
                                                of South African society and the constitutional right to equality
                                                with regard to mother-tongue education, our government is obliged
                                                to make active policy decisions in favour of multilingualism.
                                                There are strong social and political reasons why funding is
                                                required for multilingual education.

                                                English-only schools promote the loss of indigenous languages. If
                                                there is no financial support, then the goal of a multilingual,
                                                cohesive society is not going to be achieved. In addition,
                                                indigenous languages cannot be implemented effectively. It is
                                                therefore important to mention that the promotion of indigenous
                                                languages and multilingualism will also make schools and tertiary
                                                education more accessible for students of all language groups.
                                                This would mean an enormous boost for quality education and the
                                                It is time for us as African students to write dissertations,
                                                reports and assignments in our own languages. Imagine if I wrote
                                                my reports in isiXhosa – I would pass all my dissertations as a
                                                Master’s student!

                                                Mr M ELLIS: No, you won’t.

                                                Ms T B SUNDUZA: Ag, shut up! [Laughter.] We commend recent
                                                initiatives launched by both the Ministries of Higher Education
                                                and Training and of Basic Education with regard to the use of
                                                African languages as languages of education. We believe that a
                                                formula has to be developed to use as a basis for managing the
                                                principles and practices of the revitalisation of indigenous

                                                Furthermore, the state is enjoined to take the necessary
                                                corrective steps to elevate and equalise the formerly oppressed
                                                languages. It is with the latter view in mind that the founding
                                                provision in the Constitution was made that the Pan African
                                                Language Board, known as PanSALB, be established by national
                                                legislation, in order to promote all official languages,
                                                including the language of the Khoi and San, as well as sign
                                                language. We must ensure that we respect all languages commonly
                                                used by communities in South Africa.

                                                The PanSALB body was established in order for there to be equal
                                                opportunity and enjoyment of all official languages. There are
                                                bodies like the Public Protector, the Human Rights Commission,
                                                the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of
                                                Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities and the Commission
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                                                for Gender Equality that regulate and act against discrimination.

                                                In this Women’s Month, most of the people who are oppressed on
                                                the basis of language are women. Women have to go to Home Affairs
                                                or to Social Development and present all the required documents
                                                in order to receive grants. However, the biggest challenge that
                                                they face is that of language, because most of them were greatly
                                                oppressed. They never received the necessary education. But, if
                                                government departments provide services and documents in all our
                                                own languages, then we will also tackle the issue of language.

                                                There must be an awareness campaign on the revitalisation of
                                                languages, and the focus should be at schools, institutions of
                                                higher education and in families. The government cannot do it
                                                alone without the families, the community and society in general.
                                                All social institutions are critical for both economic prosperity
                                                and social cohesion. Elsewhere, in some societies, the promotion
                                                of indigenous languages has led to drastic improvements in nation-
                                                building projects.
                                                Our critics always say that the performance of our matriculants
                                                is bad because of the teachers only, but if teachers were
                                                teaching in their own languages and students also ...

                                                Ek sal jou slaan! [I will beat you!] [Laughter.]]

                                                That is their critique. Why not take into consideration the issue
                                                of languages? At Afrikaans and English-medium schools, scholars
                                                pass with flying colours, because they are taught in their mother
                                                tongues, while our African children are forced to speak this
                                                foreign language in our homes. [Interjections.] Okay, I will face
                                                this side.

                                                As I said, the blame for the loss of multilingualism cannot be
                                                placed on government only. There are departments of language
                                                services, South African heritage services and parents who must
                                                also assist in this process.

                                                In conclusion ... hon Ellis, you are not even listening to me
                                                now. You said I must face this side. [Interjections.] In
                                                conclusion, we need to encourage our people, particularly
                                                parents, children and the youth, to develop an interest and pride
                                                in their language and to promote this in society as a whole.

                                                Our children – once I have mine – must be encouraged to know
                                                their language rights and what grievance procedures to follow
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                                                when their rights are violated, because people do not know their
                                                rights. They are violated and taken advantage of.

                                                We need to ensure that we revitalise indigenous languages and
                                                make an effort to learn other languages. Hon Ellis, you have been
                                                here in Parliament for a long time and you cannot even speak
                                                isiXhosa. You must learn other languages as well. Our research
                                                bodies and individual scholars must be encouraged to conduct
                                                research and, as I said, write reports, dissertations and
                                                assignments in their own languages, in accordance with the Bill
                                                of Rights. Thank you for listening, even those opposition members
                                                who did. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs F Hajaig): Before I call the next
                                                person, I would like to appeal to you to take your places and
                                                keep your voices down. There are private conversations going on
                                                all the time. This is actually a very important topic. I do not
                                                think that we are paying sufficient attention to this issue,
                                                which affects our people. So, I appeal, once again, for us to be
                                                quiet. If you need to say something, say it quietly, but refrain
                                                from having conversations.

                                                I would also like to appeal to the Deputy Minister of Tourism — I
                                                am addressing you, Madam. I would appreciate it if you could
                                                refrain from conducting conversations while speakers are trying
                                                to be heard. [Applause.]

                                                Dr A LOTRIET: Voorsitter, ek wil graag begin deur my waardering
                                                uit te spreek dat ons wel vandag ’n debat oor hierdie belangrike
                                                kwessie voer. Vir te lank is dit ’n onderwerp wat geïgnoreer is
                                                of waarvan weggeskram is. Die tragedie is egter dat dit
                                                hoegenaamd nodig is om in 2011, 17 jaar in ons nuwe bedeling in,
                                                debat te voer oor die hervitalisering van ons inheemse tale.

                                                Dit is inderdaad ’n ernstige aanklag teen die regering van die
                                                dag dat ten spyte van ons Grondwet, waarin daar besliste
                                                bepalings is oor die beskerming en bevordering van alle amptelike
                                                tale in ons land, daar nou nog nie gevolg gegee is aan die
                                                bevordering en beskerming van ons inheemse tale nie. Soveel so
                                                dat dit ’n hofbevel gekos het om die regering so ver te kry om
                                                taalwetgewing te implementeer. Ek verwys hier spesifiek na die
                                                Suid-Afrikaanse Talewetsontwerp, wat nog ter tafel gelê moet

                                                Die vraag is dus: Hoe ernstig is die regering werklik oor die
                                                bevordering en dus dan ook die hervitalisering van die tale van
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                                                Suid-Afrika en, in besonder, die inheemse tale? Hoekom word daar
                                                na redes gekyk waarom tale nie beskerm en bevorder moet word nie,
                                                eerder as waarom dit moet gebeur? Indien ons werklik ernstig is
                                                oor die hervitalisering van ons inheemse tale, moet ons deeglike
                                                introspeksie doen oor ons eie ingesteldheid jeens die tale van
                                                ons land. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

                                                [Dr A LOTRIET: Chairperson, I would like to start by expressing
                                                my appreciation for the fact that we are indeed debating this
                                                very important issue today. For too long now this has been a
                                                matter that has been ignored or avoided. The tragedy, however, is
                                                that it is still necessary to debate the issue of the
                                                revitalisation of our indigenous languages in 2011, 17 years into
                                                our new dispensation.

                                                It is indeed a serious indictment of the government of the day
                                                that in spite of our Constitution, which contains definitive
                                                provisions for the protection and advancement of all official
                                                languages in our country, adherence to the advancement and
                                                protection of our indigenous languages has still not been
                                                followed through on. So much so that it required a court order to
                                                get the government to implement legislation in respect of
                                                language. Here I am specifically referring to the South African
                                                Languages Bill that must still be tabled.

                                                The question is therefore: How serious is the government really
                                                about the advancement and therefore, as a consequence, the
                                                revitalisation of the languages of South Africa, and the
                                                indigenous languages in particular? Why are we searching for
                                                reasons why languages should not be protected and advanced,
                                                rather than why it should happen? If we are really serious about
                                                the revitalisation of our indigenous languages, we should do
                                                thorough introspection regarding our own predisposition towards
                                                the languages of our country.]

                                                The reality is that, despite the wonderful provisions in our
                                                Constitution, a crisis is looming in South Africa regarding the
                                                promotion and preservation of our indigenous languages.
                                                Unfortunately, we are faced with the situation where our
                                                university students are turning their back on studying African
                                                languages. Departments of African languages are closing down
                                                because there has been a drastic decline in student numbers. Why
                                                is this happening?

                                                There are a number of reasons, such as parents and the community
                                                at large, for equating education with competency in English and,
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                                                in the process, the value of our indigenous languages is
                                                diminished. The fact is that these languages are not regarded as
                                                adequate for higher-order functions. In other words, indigenous
                                                languages are not seen as being capable of being languages of
                                                business and the academic world. These languages are deemed not
                                                to be of economic value. The reason for this is that it is
                                                claimed that indigenous languages do not possess the requisite
                                                registers for science and scholarship or other high-order

                                                We therefore relegate these languages to the periphery as having
                                                value only in our social communication at home or with friends
                                                and not as an important facet of education and personal
                                                development. We believe that our languages will survive in this
                                                kind of environment and we tend to view language as nothing more
                                                than a means of communication.

                                                In truth, language is much more than that. Language is who we
                                                are, our culture, our beliefs, our history. It is the footprint
                                                of where we come from and where we are going. It is part of our
                                                social, psychological and cultural make-up. It gives us a sense
                                                of social identity, self-confidence and emotional security.

                                                Language, therefore, is much more than purely something of
                                                economic value. When we disrespect a person’s language, we
                                                disrespect much more than only a means of communication. When we
                                                talk of the revitalisation of indigenous languages, we have to be
                                                serious and cognisant of the integral part language plays in how
                                                we view and experience ourselves. When we talk about
                                                revitalisation, it has to be a holistic approach. A few token
                                                gestures will not ensure the survival of these languages. We have
                                                to start right at the beginning, with education, right through to
                                                the workplace, making indigenous languages an economic option.

                                                Let us look at what we are doing at present with our current
                                                educational dispensation. What is the message that we send to a
                                                child when he goes to school and we tell him or her that,
                                                unfortunately, his language is not considered good enough for him
                                                to be taught in? We are saying to the child: “You, your culture
                                                and your history are inferior”. What kind of person will we
                                                produce when this is the message we are giving our children? We
                                                are creating generations of children who have to deal with the
                                                underlying message that who they are and where they come from are
                                                inferior and has no economic value.

                                                If we want to talk about revitalising our indigenous languages,
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                                                we have to start by looking at our own attitudes, our own
                                                preconceived ideas of the role of language and what constitutes
                                                value. The language sector is most probably one of the most
                                                undervalued sectors in the economy. We focus on maths and
                                                science, while we have a treasure trove of linguistically gifted
                                                people. Whole industries can be created in the field of language,
                                                such as those translators, interpreters, editors, writers,
                                                document designers, language technologists, and not only
                                                teachers, as we have always thought. The potential for job
                                                creation in the language field has not even begun to be
                                                considered and it is enormous.

                                                The inconvenient truth is, however, that if we do not commit
                                                wholeheartedly to the revitalisation and true empowerment of our
                                                indigenous languages, the outcome is bleak and sad. What we have
                                                to remember is that, according to projections, 95% of the
                                                currently spoken speech forms in the world will be extinct in the
                                                next 100 years. This does not refer to languages such as English,
                                                French or Chinese, but languages such as our own indigenous
                                                languages. This happens when there is no support and
                                                interventions to protect and, importantly, to promote these
                                                languages. The tragedy is that the moment our indigenous African
                                                languages become extinct, culturally, as Africans, we cease to
                                                exist. We vanish into history. Culturally we become part of the
                                                world whose languages we have adopted. The question is: What are
                                                we, then?

                                                We have to realise that for true nation-building and social
                                                cohesion to prevail in our country, we need a genuinely
                                                multilingual citizenry. This can only be achieved if we promote
                                                and protect the languages of our country. [Applause.]

                                                Mr P NTSHIQELA: Hon Speaker ... nabo bonke abakule Ndlu,
                                                ingakumbi abo bakwaDlangamandla naseMazizini, ndiyanibulisa
                                                ngegama leNkosi.

                                                Okokuqala, manditsho ukuba akukho nto ibuhlungu njengokuba
                                                abantwana abasesikolweni bekhuthazwa ukuba bathethe iilwimi
                                                ezingezizo ezakumawabo ngamaxesha onke. Okona kuhlupha kakhulu
                                                kukuba umntwana wam ubuya esikolweni andixelele ukuba kufunwa
                                                into edla imali engamawaka amabini, kube kufunwa loo mawaka
                                                mabini ke. Xa ndibuza ukuba yintoni na le ifunwayo, impendulo
                                                ithi yi-“horizombotech”. Kunakaloku nje ndisafuna ootishala ukuze
                                                bandichazele ukuba yintoni na loo nto.

                                                Andikhange ndichaze ukuba andiyazi loo nto kwaye andazi nokuba
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                                                niyayazi na nina. Ndiwakhuphile amawaka amabini kodwa
                                                ndisakhangela ukuba yintoni na i-“horizombotech”. Noxa kunjalo,
                                                ndiyaqonda ukuba le “horizombotech” yinto enxulumene
                                                nobuxhakaxhaka bale mihla, andibazi ke obu buxhakaxhaka bale

                                                Ingqeqesho iqala ekhaya. Kuba buhlungu xa usiva abantwana bethu
                                                bethetha isiNgesi xa bencokola koololiwe naseziteksini. Kuloo
                                                meko uye uzibuze ukuba ingaba aba bantwana bayalwazi okanye
                                                abalwazi kusini na ulwimi lwabo. (Translation of isiXhosa
                                                paragraphs follows.)

                                                [... and everyone in this House, especially those who belong to
                                                Dlangamandla and aMazizi clans, I greet you in the name of the

                                                Firstly, I must say that there is nothing as painful as having
                                                children being encouraged at school to speak languages that are
                                                not their vernacular all the time. What worries me most is that
                                                my child comes back telling me that at school they need something
                                                that costs R2 000 and that R2 000 must be paid. When I ask what
                                                the name of that thing is, the answer was “horizombotech”. I
                                                still need teachers to tell me what that is.

                                                I did not mention that I am clueless and I don’t know whether you
                                                know about it. I have paid the R2 000 but I still need
                                                information on this “horizombotech”. However, I am certain that
                                                this “horizombotech” has something to do with today’s technology,
                                                and I have no idea about today’s technology.

                                                Charity begins at home. It is very sad to listen to our children
                                                having a conversation in English in the trains and taxis. In
                                                those cases you end up wondering whether these children know
                                                their mother tongue or not.]
                                                Because Cope supports the eli gama ndingazi kulibiza kakuhle,
                                                ndingalichaniyo words that I cannot pronounce correctly, and
                                                which I do not know] of our indigenous languages, the only
                                                problem we foresee is how this will be achieved. We all know that
                                                the devil is in the details. How do we bring our languages back
                                                into prominence when political leadership — especially the ruling
                                                party — communicates with children in English after the elections
                                                ... [Interjections.] ... when instruments of public communication
                                                like the South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, use slang
                                                language like “fo sho” [for sure] and spell uMzantsi incorrectly,
                                                and when the Chapter 1 institution, the Pan South African
                                                Language Board, PanSALB, is still bogged down in legal action
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                                                instead of pursuing its constitutional mandate of actively
                                                promoting the development of previously marginalised languages,
                                                among other things?

                                                I read somewhere that it is easier for a six-year-old to learn to
                                                speak a new language fluently — ndilibize kakuhle andithi eli
                                                gama? [I have pronounced this word correctly, haven’t I?]
                                                [Interjections.] - than it is for a 16- or 26-year-old. I
                                                therefore disagree and Training with the Minister of Higher
                                                Education and Training on his call to force university students
                                                to study at least one African language as a condition to

                                                Umthi ugotywa uselula. [Bend the tree while it is still young.]

                                                I also disagree with the - eliny’ igama endingalichani kakuhle
                                                [another word that I don’t really know ] - PanSALB chief
                                                executive officer’s call that government must make it a policy
                                                that if you want a government job, you have to know an African
                                                language. He made this statement in support of the Minister of
                                                Higher Education and Training’s call.

                                                I do not think that he really believes in what he said, taking
                                                into consideration what he wrote in his personal capacity on
                                                Facebook about 16 June, where he was accusing a number of people,
                                                including the President, parents and state institutions of
                                                violating language rights ... [Time expired.]

                                                Ukufa kusembizeni. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [The enemy is within.
                                                Thank you. [Applause.]]

                                                uSolwazi C T MSIMANG: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, okokuqala
                                                ngizohalalisela umhlonishwa uSunduza, ngokuqhamuka ngesihloko
                                                esibaluleke kangaka ukuba kuxoxwe ngaso kule Ndlu.
                                                Sengimhalalisele bese ngiba nokudabuka ukuthi silinde kwaze
                                                kwaphela iminyaka eyi-17 ukuba sixoxe ngalesi sihloko.

                                                Kuleyo minyaka eyi-17 besibona ukusetshenziswa kwezilimi zesintu
                                                kuya ngokuya kuncipha, kanti ukusetshenziswa kwesiNgisi kuya
                                                ngokuya kukhula. Namhlanje ngisho abavakashi abavela phesheya nxa
                                                behla esikhumulweni sezindiza, into yokuqala abayibonayo ukuthi
                                                izwe abafike kulo ngelamaNgisi.Zonke izazisi ezichaza
                                                ngokwenzekayo nokuthi indawo ethile ikuphi, zibhalwe ngesiNgisi.

                                                Namhlanje uthi nxa ufika ezinkantolo noma ezinkundleni zamacala,
                                                ufice ukuthi bonke abasenkundleni ukusuka kummangali ngumuntu
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                                                wase-Afrika kuye kummangalelwa kuze kuyofika kuyo imantshi,
                                                ngisho ijaji imbala.Kodwa bonke laba bantu bakhuluma ngesiNgisi,
                                                ongasazi – ikakhulukazi ummangalelwa angamane afunelwe utolika
                                                ukuze amchazele konke ngesiZulu.

                                                Uyadabuka ukuthi izakhiwo zikahulumeni nezinhlaka zakhe ziningi
                                                kangakanani ukuthuthukisa izilimi zethu, kodwa uma usubuka ukuthi
                                                imiphumela injani, uthola ukuthi kunokuba zithuthuke ungazi
                                                zibuyela emuva. Uma kukhulunya ngokuthuthukisa kwezilimi zesintu
                                                sisuke sibheka ikakhulukazi ukuthi sezikhona yini izichazamazwi,
                                                ubheka ukuthi iyathuthuka yini imibhalo ebhalwe ngalolu limi,
                                                imibhalo yobuchwepheshe njengamanoveli.

                                                Usuke ubheka ukuthi zitsetshenziswa kangakanani ekufundiseni
                                                izingane zesikole. Uthole ukuthi konke lokhu akwenzeki. Bese
                                                ubona ukuthi ngempela ngempela kusuka kuhulumeni wobandlululo
                                                kuya kuhulumeni wentando yabantu, iqhaza elibanjwe yizilimi
                                                zesintu liye ngokuya lincipha kunokuthi likhule. Okudabukisayo
                                                kakhulu ukuthi kwenzeke ngesikhathi sekuphethe abantu abamnyama.
                                                Ngithokoze. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

                                                [Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Chairperson, firstly I would like to
                                                congratulate the hon Sunduza for coming up with such an important
                                                topic to be debated in this House. After congratulating her, I am
                                                filled with sadness that we waited for 17 years to talk about
                                                this topic.

                                                During those 17 years we saw the use of indigenous languages
                                                gradually dwindling, whereas the use of the English language kept
                                                on growing. Even today the first thing visitors from abroad see
                                                when they land is that the country they have arrived in belongs
                                                to the English people. All the signs indicating the names of
                                                different places are written in English.

                                                Nowadays when you get to the courts you find that everybody in
                                                court — the complainant, the defendant, the magistrate, and the
                                                judge — is black. All these people speak English, and the one who
                                                is not fluent in English, especially the defendant, could be
                                                assigned an interpreter so that he or she can explain everything
                                                in isiZulu to the defendant.

                                                You become sad when you realise how many resources and structures
                                                government has made available to develop our languages, but when
                                                you look at the results, you find that instead of developing they
                                                seem to be regressing. When we talk about the development of our
                                                indigenous languages we generally look at the availability of
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                                                dictionaries and whether the literary works produced in that
                                                language are developed — the creative works such as novels.

                                                You look at how much they are used as the medium of instruction
                                                at schools. You find that this does not happen and you realise
                                                that all this started with the apartheid government, up to this
                                                democratic government. The role played by indigenous languages
                                                keeps on dwindling instead of growing. It is pathetic that this
                                                is happening when black people are in power. Thank you.

                                                Mr J J MCGLUWA: Chairperson, in 1976 schoolchildren fought over
                                                language instruction. As government, we tend to forget the
                                                seriousness and sensitivity of this topic. This is the very
                                                reason that Hector Pieterson and so many learners died. It is sad
                                                that we remember their cause only once a year. As a leader, I
                                                realise that I have not done enough to ensure that my own child
                                                attaches the same importance to indigenous languages that she
                                                does to our home language.

                                                The historical and current context of language issues in South
                                                Africa remains fraught and continues to have an influence on
                                                relationships between language and society. Allowing the current
                                                status of our schools will result in the marginalisation of all
                                                indigenous African languages.

                                                Therefore my question is: What have we done over the past 17
                                                years to protect, revive and restructure the system to
                                                incorporate the 11 official languages as mediums of instruction
                                                and as a part of the curriculum to encourage communication across
                                                racial divides?

                                                It is sad that South African families hardly communicate in their
                                                home languages. After 17 years in our democratic South Africa,
                                                black children are still not being taught in their mother tongue.
                                                This directly affects racial integration because children from
                                                different racial and cultural backgrounds come together on the
                                                playground. That is where the foundations are laid for a united

                                                Greater effort should be made and financial assistance be given
                                                to accelerate the progress of the move towards gearing all South
                                                Africans to meet the practical language requirements of our
                                                country. Furthermore, it is not enough to restrict ourselves to
                                                phrases like “heita” and “hola” [hello] in the corridors of
                                                Parliament. Therefore it is important that Parliament should
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                                                offer language courses for Members of Parliament in its
                                                leadership management academy.

                                                The ID supports and encourages the introduction of national
                                                awareness through active multilingualism and the recognition of
                                                all traditional leaders in all spheres of government. [Applause.]

                                                Mr S Z NTAPANE: Hon Chairperson and hon members, it is with
                                                tremendous sadness that I stand here today to debate the menace
                                                of extinction facing indigenous languages in South Africa. This
                                                happens while English continues to enjoy unchallenged supremacy
                                                as a medium of verbal and written communication, both in business
                                                and in government.

                                                We are all guilty of not doing enough to safeguard indigenous
                                                languages as valuable resources for our knowledge systems,
                                                cultural norms and values and national heritage. The UDM believes
                                                that we have a collective responsibility to play a more active
                                                role in the preservation and promotion of indigenous languages.

                                                Government must take the lead in the development of more
                                                supportive policies that promote the use of our indigenous
                                                languages. Government must invest in the development of the
                                                intellectualisation of indigenous languages for them to be able
                                                to function effectively as mediums of communication, both in
                                                business and in government.

                                                Resources should be made available to improve the capacity of
                                                university research departments on indigenous languages.
                                                Government must promote the use of indigenous languages as
                                                mediums of instruction at schools and universities. Available
                                                empirical evidence clearly demonstrates a positive correlation
                                                between the use of the mother tongue at school as a medium of
                                                instruction and improved performance in school work by pupils,
                                                particularly in maths and science. [Applause.]

                                                Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, I would like to start off by
                                                congratulating the hon Sunduza for bringing this topic to
                                                Parliament. I think it is necessary that we discuss this issue,
                                                and I would like to say that I agree with approximately 98% of
                                                every word she said today. It was a good speech. The 2%
                                                difference is in terms of certain interpretations of our history,
                                                but we can debate that at another time. Well done on the 98%!

                                                The question is: Do we really believe in and see South Africa as
                                                a multilingual country, or do we pay lip service to this ideal,
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                                                while secretly moving towards an English-speaking only South
                                                Africa? That is the problem. Why is it normal and acceptable if I
                                                insist on speaking English anywhere, but if I speak one of South
                                                Africa’s other indigenous languages, then suddenly there is a
                                                problem or it becomes political?

                                                The international position of English made it possible for a
                                                number of popular misconceptions about English in South Africa to
                                                take root. These relate to the belief that most South Africans
                                                understand English, or that English is widely used as a lingua
                                                franca. Research shows that only 34% to 40% of South Africans
                                                have sufficient English language skills to make sense of news
                                                broadcasts and political debates in English. The documentation
                                                and the study have been done.

                                                Die feit van die saak is dat moedertaal onderwys, en die hele
                                                erkenning van jou eie taal, absoluut noodsaaklik is as ons
                                                ernstig is om mense in die proses te erken. (Translation of
                                                Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

                                                [The fact remains that mother-tongue education, and the complete
                                                acknowledgment of one’s own language, is absolutely essential if
                                                we are serious about acknowledging people in the process.]

                                                It is not only the ANC, in terms of the Polokwane resolution,
                                                that speaks about this. One should have a look at section 6(2) of
                                                the Constitution, where it is clearly stated that:

                                                  Recognising the historically diminished use and status of the
                                                  indigenous languages of our people, the state must take
                                                  practical and positive measures to elevate the status and
                                                  advance the use of these languages.

                                                Feit van die saak is: as jy iemand se taal minag, minag jy
                                                daardie persoon. [The fact of the matter is that if you show
                                                contempt for someone’s language, you also show contempt for that

                                                If we are serious about the recognition of all our official
                                                languages, we should do what was said today and implement the
                                                proposals that were put on the table. I congratulate the member.
                                                Let us do this now in practice and then we will see that, once we
                                                really try, we will start to succeed at nation-building as well.

                                                Mrs C DUDLEY: This is what an isiXhosa-speaking young man I spoke
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                                                to said to me:

                                                 I am worried that for centuries our languages have been a
                                                 reflection of those cultural distinctions that have made us who
                                                 we are as a people and, in a sense, have been an element of the
                                                 many things that have made us strong. Though we have survived
                                                 centuries of contact and conflict, today we are faced with a
                                                 crisis that is perhaps more significant than any we have ever
                                                 faced in our histories. It is the crisis of the loss of our
                                                 languages, and this crisis has reached a point that if we are
                                                 not able to effectively pass our languages on to our youth
                                                 within the next 15 years, we could witness the loss of as much
                                                 as 85% of the African languages that are still spoken at

                                                Under the 1996 Constitution, all of South Africa’s official
                                                languages “must enjoy parity of esteem and must be treated
                                                equitably”. In practice, English increasingly dominates and is
                                                the medium of business, finance, science, the Internet,
                                                government, the music industry and much more.

                                                The number of people using a newly found knowledge of different
                                                African languages is also dropping while, 17 years into this new
                                                South Africa, it should be the opposite. This is cause for
                                                concern. Experts at the School of Languages and Literatures at
                                                the University of Cape Town say that at present the vast majority
                                                of language experts and lecturers are in their 50s and they are
                                                very concerned that there are no others coming after them.

                                                I studied isiZulu at university in KwaZulu-Natal, when I was
                                                studying law as a mature student, in the years before coming to
                                                Parliament in 1999. Despite making an enthusiastic start and
                                                achieving high marks for exams, to my disappointment and shame
                                                the isiZulu I learned never dropped successfully from my head to
                                                my tongue. In my defence, I was subsequently redeployed into
                                                provinces where isiZulu was not a priority.

                                                Other difficulties I encountered, even at university in KwaZulu-
                                                Natal, in the rare, brave moments of wanting to practise my
                                                isiZulu, included often and unwittingly picking on a foreign
                                                student. This was very off-putting. When speaking to ordinary
                                                KwaZulu-Natal residents, I would be corrected by people who had a
                                                standard-3 education. It seemed my varsity isiZulu just did not
                                                say what it was meant to. That was equally confusing! [Time
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                                                Ms T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA: Hon Chairperson, members,
                                                distinguished guests and our children, you will recall that one
                                                of the defining moments in our struggle, the 1976 youth uprising,
                                                was sparked by the imposition of Afrikaans as a medium of
                                                instruction in black schools. We therefore know the consequences
                                                of using language as a political instrument and we are now
                                                determined to ensure that our country does not go down that road

                                                Our language policy recognises that our country is a multilingual
                                                society, with a large number of indigenous languages. If language
                                                contributes to our attitudes, then language is the central
                                                feature of culture. It is in language that culture is
                                                transmitted, interpreted and configured. Language is also a
                                                register of culture.

                                                Historically, the trajectory of a culture can be read in the
                                                language and evolution of its lexicon and morphology. Language is
                                                one of the distinctive features that distinguish us from the
                                                animal world. We are in effect talkative animals. In this respect
                                                we can extend the logic of the argument by saying that language
                                                is the key distinguishing feature between us and the rest of the
                                                animal world. Our ability to create culture and language marks us
                                                off from the animals.

                                                Language is the most important means of human intercourse.
                                                Language and cultural rights are therefore central to all
                                                considerations of human rights, in contemporary South Africa and
                                                the world at large. Furthermore, it suggests that the
                                                revitalisation of indigenous languages is at the heart of
                                                contemporary debates about identity, social cohesion and the
                                                development of a knowledge-based economy. The aforementioned
                                                affirms respect for the diversity of indigenous languages,
                                                tolerance, dialogue and co-operation, in a climate of mutual
                                                trust and understanding.

                                                In this regard, it is important to note that indigenous languages
                                                and literacy are crucial for societal development. For instance,
                                                we have isiNdebele and Khilobedu, which, until now, are not
                                                recognised in schools as written languages. The Balobedu children
                                                are taught in Sepedi. Maybe this is what contributes to the high
                                                failure rate, because they speak Khilobedu at home and when they
                                                get to school, they have to write in Sepedi.

                                                Our country’s reconstruction towards a national democratic
                                                society is possible when its citizens are literate in the
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                                                languages of the masses. In other words, it is not possible to
                                                reach social cohesion if the language or languages of literacy
                                                and education are only within the intellectual ambit of a small
                                                powerful elite. What has PanSALB been doing since 1996, when our
                                                Constitution was adopted, to revitalise such languages? PanSALB
                                                has an obligation to develop such languages.

                                                The language question in our country, with respect to its
                                                challenges, calls for concerted efforts to revitalise indigenous
                                                languages. We know how far we have travelled in terms of past
                                                achievements at policy and legislative levels.

                                                Tindzimi ta hina Vantima a ti nga hlayiwi helo. A hi fana na
                                                vahlampfa etikweni ra hina. Hi hoyozela ntshunxeko lowu nga va
                                                kona hi 1994. Hi ri endzhaku ku vuyela singe hina a hi nga ha
                                                vuyeli. (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)

                                                [Our indigenous languages were not recognised. We were like
                                                foreigners in our own country. We welcome the freedom that was
                                                achieved in 1994. We are saying backward never, and we shall
                                                never go backwards.]

                                                I want to agree with hon Lotriet, who said that if you undermine
                                                other people’s language, you actually undermine the people who
                                                speak it. That is true.

                                                Tindzimi ta hina Vantima a ti nga vulavuriwi hi nkarhi wa
                                                apartheid [xihlawuhlawu]. Loko va tsala swilo a va tsala leswaku
                                                “and other languages”. [Our indigenous languages were not used
                                                for official purposes during the apartheid era. When they wrote
                                                something, they would write “and other languages”.]

                                                Our Constitution states that:

                                                  Everyone has the right to use the language and to participate
                                                  in the cultural life of their choice, but no one exercising
                                                  these rights may do so in a manner inconsistent with any
                                                  provision of the Bill of Rights.

                                                In addition, the point is made that:

                                                  Persons belonging to a cultural, religious or linguistic
                                                  community may not be denied the right, with other members of
                                                  that community —
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                                                       a) to enjoy their culture, practise their religion and use
                                                          their language; and
                                                       b) to form, join and maintain cultural, religious and
                                                          linguistic associations and other organs of civil

                                                It is further stated that these rights may not be exercised in a
                                                manner inconsistent with any provision of the Bill of Rights.

                                                In the area that I am from, white farmers speak Xitsonga so
                                                fluently. I remember in Giyani, during the birthday celebrations
                                                of our former President, Nelson Mandela, we had a young white
                                                girl who attended a multiracial school. She was 16 or 18 years
                                                old. She requested to be allowed to stand before us in order to
                                                read a poem in Xitsonga. Unless you saw this white girl, you
                                                would think, from her pronunciation, that she was a Xitsonga-
                                                speaking child. Why can’t our communities speak the languages of
                                                the people who are living in it?

                                                The state must take practical and positive measures to elevate
                                                the status and advance the use of these languages. The letter and
                                                spirit of these words are that all are equal before the law. This
                                                is the famous call of the Freedom Charter. Up until now,
                                                multilingualism has been invisible in the Public Service, in most
                                                public discourse and in the mass media.

                                                Consequently, and despite the fact that the Constitution provides
                                                for the cultivation of multilingualism and the revitalisation of
                                                indigenous languages, there is still an urgent need for the
                                                Departments of Arts and Culture, and Science and Technology, to
                                                revitalise the use of indigenous languages in a manner that draws
                                                from the framework of the Reconstruction and Development
                                                Programme, and to maximise the utilisation of the country’s
                                                multilingual human resources.

                                                Ironically, the Department of Arts and Culture is a department
                                                that is not given a large enough budget. If they could get enough
                                                money, I think they would promote indigenous languages,
                                                traditional music, traditional dances and traditional folklore.
                                                Indigenous languages should all be elevated to the same level by
                                                providing the necessary resources to enable and permit this
                                                direction. However, one hardly notices much reaction by the
                                                speakers of indigenous languages in our country to the increasing
                                                predominance of English. Occasionally we hear and read strident
                                                African-language-speaking voices. Generally, however, they are
                                                few and far between.
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                                                A sharply worded article entitled “Africans opt for English as
                                                the Language of ‘Brainy People” which I think most people have
                                                read, was written by an African language-speaking reader. It
                                                appeared in The Star in recent months. The writer trenchantly
                                                observed that:

                                                  It is disheartening to see people actively shunning their
                                                  languages. African languages are relegated to second-best,
                                                  compared to English, despite the fact that the Constitution
                                                  advocates equality with respect to languages. What is more
                                                  disturbing is that Africans are assisting in the
                                                  marginalisation of their mother tongues. The country is
                                                  currently busy producing African youth who can hardly read, let
                                                  alone write text in their mother tongue. These youth fail to
                                                  even pronounce African names correctly, let alone spell them.
                                                  In extreme cases African children can hardly construct a
                                                  sentence in their parents’ mother tongue.

                                                  I think the fault is with us as parents -

                                                     The poor kid’s identity is lost because they are supposed,
                                                     for example, to be Tswana and yet they know nothing about
                                                     the Tswana culture and language.

                                                  Or a Mupedi who knows nothing about the Bapedi culture. These
                                                  children look down on African cultures, just as most proponents
                                                  of colonialism do, or did.

                                                  They look down on African religious practices as superstition.
                                                  They are alienating themselves, with the help of their parents,
                                                  from their own cultures. It is unfortunate that most parents
                                                  still believe that speaking eloquent English necessarily means
                                                  you are intelligent.

                                                That is not the case.

                                                     The fallacy of this observation is the suggestion that the
                                                     English in England are all intelligent because they speak

                                                Some of them are not intelligent, despite the fact that they can
                                                speak English.
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                                                     The interesting thing is that when parents enrol their
                                                     children in township schools they insist that their children
                                                     attend schools that offer their mother tongue. When these
                                                     kids move to schools in town, mother tongue preference is
                                                     shelved for English and Afrikaans.

                                                Why? -
                                                     Granted, the school may not be offering any African language
                                                     at that stage even though it has African pupils in the
                                                     majority. African parents resign themselves to the status
                                                     quo more often than not.

                                                Parents should speak up -

                                                     Our children should learn other languages in addition to
                                                     their mother tongue.

                                                We definitely agree with this -

                                                     Imagine if white, coloured and Indian children were to learn
                                                     African languages as their second language at school, that
                                                     would add some impetus to nation-building.

                                                We support the call by hon Dr Blade Nzimande for indigenous
                                                languages to be included at tertiary and university levels.

                                                I once attended a court case where the judge could not understand
                                                any of the indigenous languages, and there was an interpreter who
                                                was interpreting for the accused. Those who speak Sepedi will
                                                understand when I say, “Hlogo ya mmago”. This is an insulting
                                                expression, but the interpreter rendered it, “Your mother’s
                                                head.” The judge asked, “What is wrong with her mother’s head?”
                                                [Laughter.] It had been literally interpreted. It should have
                                                been translated in Xitsonga. Xitsonga-speaking people could have
                                                translated it. We can thus see how much we don’t know when we
                                                don’t have the chance to learn other languages, in particular the
                                                indigenous languages. Sometimes it is not good for all us.

                                                It is important that we decolonise our minds and avoid giving in
                                                to the status quo. By the way, one does not need to be conversant
                                                in English to be an electrician, doctor, mechanic or professor.
                                                You can become a professor without being proficient in English.
                                                If you could have used your mother tongue, you could maybe even
                                                have passed with distinction.

                                                The technological culture of South Africa is constructed on the
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                                                cultures and in the languages of its white minority. Knowledge,
                                                its production and reproduction, is negotiated and built in the
                                                languages and culture of this cultural superpower.

                                                Adopting a culturally exclusive approach in South Africa means
                                                that if you go to an ATM machine, for instance, the procedure you
                                                have to follow will be in English, or when using a computer, the
                                                procedure you have to follow is in English. Even the manuals for
                                                the use of ordinary cellular phones are in English. So, unless
                                                you know that language, you cannot access those technologies.
                                                There must be indigenous-centred development to provide the
                                                masses of our people with cultural and linguistic access to these
                                                processes. This will have to be done in the cultures and
                                                languages of the masses, unless we want to suggest that the
                                                indigenous languages and cultures of the masses are inherently
                                                inferior and can provide no basis for social and cultural

                                                Hi fanele ku tsundzuka ubuntu [vumunhu]. Hi leswi mfumo wa hina
                                                wu vulaka swona. [We should remember the principle of ubuntu.
                                                This is what our government says.]

                                                The situation we currently have is one in which the languages of
                                                the indigenous majorities are marginalised and underdeveloped.
                                                The only way in which to revitalise them is to be given more in
                                                terms of the budget, to be supported by government and, more
                                                importantly, by the parents of our children at school.

                                                In comparison, you find so many textbooks and so much   research
                                                material written in English and Afrikaans. Where will   our people
                                                get this information from? There are no textbooks and   research
                                                books written in our indigenous languages. It is high   time that
                                                our writers embarked on that.

                                                This condition of the relative cultural deprivation of the
                                                languages of the majorities cannot serve as a viable basis for
                                                social and economic development. The latter needs the enlistment
                                                of the cultural energies of the masses.

                                                In conclusion, the revitalisation of indigenous languages
                                                requires active advocacy work and awareness campaigns. This
                                                should involve both state and civil society organisations. A
                                                systematic plan for this work needs to be drawn up. Co-operative
                                                linkages should be established with bodies involved in similar or
                                                related work of a cultural or linguistic kind. Publications
                                                flowing out of this work should be produced. [Applause.]
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                                                Mr K J DIKOBO: Chairperson, hon members and honoured guests, we
                                                use language to communicate but, more than that, languages are
                                                carriers of the culture of the people who speak those languages.
                                                I have listened with interest to people trying to convey a
                                                cultural concept of one community in the language of another
                                                community. You will find that the translation does not carry the
                                                full meaning and original idiom.

                                                If a language is allowed to disappear, so does the culture of the
                                                people who speak that language. We therefore support the idea
                                                that indigenous languages have to be promoted and supported
                                                because the disappearance of a language also means that writers
                                                and authors in those languages are discouraged from writing
                                                because there would be no market for their books.
                                                Researchers and scientists have told us that one of the factors
                                                contributing to the high failure rate in our schools is the fact
                                                that many children are taught in a foreign language. Azapo
                                                therefore supports the idea of the mother tongue as the medium of
                                                instruction or language of teaching and learning. We are not
                                                calling for the scrapping of English or any other language. We
                                                could have the mother tongue as a language of teaching and
                                                learning, while studying other languages as subjects.

                                                If we are serious and invest in the promotion and revitalisation
                                                of indigenous languages, we should find that any language can be
                                                used as a medium of instruction. By so doing, we will be
                                                promoting our cultures in our country. [Applause.]

                                                Rre G G BOINAMO: Ke tsaya nako eno go leboga Modulasetilo, mmogo
                                                le Ditona tsa rona le maloko a a tlotlegang a Ntlo e. Motlotlegi
                                                Sunduza, kgaitsadiaka, o buile mme o re diretse phoso ka go bua
                                                ka ga tsosoloso ya diteme tsa bantsho o be o dira jalo ka
                                                sejatlhapi. Re tshwanelwa ke gore re ikitse, re ithate, re
                                                itlotle re bo re tlotle le dipuo tsa rona. (Translation of
                                                Setswana paragraph follows.)

                                                [Mr G G BOINAMO: Let me take this opportunity to thank the
                                                Chairperson, Ministers and hon members of this House. Hon
                                                Sunduza, my dear sister, you spoke about the revival of the
                                                language of the African people; however, you have wronged us by
                                                doing so in English. We are supposed to know our identity, love
                                                ourselves, and respect our languages and ourselves.]

                                                Let me give you a historical perspective of today’s topic of
                                                debate. This is not the first time, but the second time that this
                                                topic is debated in this country. It was first debated during the
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                                                period when this country was under the British regime and the
                                                sole official language was English. Afrikaans was not recognised
                                                because the Afrikaners were oppressed. There emerged a scholar by
                                                the name of C J Langenhoven, who wrote a book entitled Die Erwe
                                                van ons Vaad’re. In this book he wrote a chapter titled
                                                “Afrikaans as voertaal”, which means “Afrikaans as a language of
                                                instruction”. He used the analogy of a donkey and said:
                                                   n Donkie en sy eseltjies is dors. ’n Donkie ken die kortste pad
                                                   dam toe, maar nou is al die paaie dam toe versper en is ’n
                                                   donkie geforseer om die ompad dam toe te neem.

                                                What he meant here was that the Afrikaner child was thirsty for
                                                education, but opportunities for him or her to access education
                                                were made almost impossible because the child was forced to study
                                                or learn through a foreign language, which was then English.

                                                This is exactly what is happening in our case, the only
                                                difference is that we are no longer oppressed and the Afrikaners
                                                were oppressed then. The question is: Where is Afrikaans today?
                                                It is now a language of economists and of science and technology.
                                                Indigenous languages can also be developed to achieve the same

                                                Mmusakgotla, diteme tsa rona di meditswe ke diteme tsa dit?haba
                                                tse dingwe. Re le bantsho re dumeletse ditlhaloganyo tsa rona
                                                gore di tsenwe kgotsa di fetolwe ke bokolone. Ditlhaloganyo tsa
                                                rona di amegile thata moo e bileng re inyatsa ka borona, re
                                                itseela kwa tlase, re latlha ditso tsa rona le go latlha dipuo
                                                tsa rona. Ra tsaya dipuo tsa bokolone ra di dira tsa rona ra bo
                                                ra ithaya ra re re di tlhaloganya go phala dipuo tsa rona.

                                                Ga gona jaaka o ka tlhaloganya seesimane go gaisa Sethosa kgotsa
                                                Sezulu e le leleme la ga mme. Fa o ithaya o re o ka itse leleme
                                                la batswakwa go gaisa leleme la gago, seo se re bontsha gore o
                                                latlhegile. Setswana sa re mooka pilo o o leodi le matute a
                                                monate, mogokong ga o ke o o ja o be o fetsa mooko wa teng. Re
                                                tshwanetse ra itse gore selo se se nang le boleng ba tlholego, se
                                                le mosola mo set?habeng, ga gona yo o ka se fedisang.

                                                Diteme tsa bantsho di koafaditswe le go tswapolwa ke go
                                                itlhokomolodisiwa ke beng ba tsona – rona beng ba tsona. Ke
                                                matlhabisa ditlhong gore bana ba rona, e leng bana ba thari e
                                                ntsho ba bo ba palelwa ke go bua segabona ka manontlhotlho le
                                                boipelo. Fa o fitlhela thaka e tshesane e tlotla, go sena makgoa
                                                e le bona fela, ba bua Sejatlhapi. Fa o batla go itse gore tota
                                                se se dirang gore ba bue Sejatlhapi ke eng ka go sena basweu mo
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                                                gare ga bona, ba re “Ga re itse Setswana, re itse Sekgoa fela”.
                                                Matlhabisa ditlhong!

                                                Se ke loso lwa dipuo tsa segarona le ditso tsa rona gonne dipuo
                                                tse di tshwere ngwao le ditso tsa rona. Tsela e rona batho ba
                                                bantsho, bana ba mmala wa sebilo re dirang ka teng, ga re sa itse
                                                puo ya rona, go raya gore ga re ikitse, ga re itlhaloganye e bile
                                                ga re na kwa re yang teng.

                                                Tsaya dikolo tse e neng e le tsa basweu pele, diteme tsa bantsho
                                                ga di rutiwe gotlhelele kwa dikolong tseo. Ke gwetlha Ntlo e gore
                                                a diteme tsa bantsho di rutwe mo dikolong tsotlhe, tota le bona
                                                basweu re ba rute diteme tsa rona. Ba di ithute jaaka fela re
                                                ithutile Seaforikanse le Sekgoa. Bana ba rona ba tshwanetse go
                                                rutwa gore fa o sa itse segaeno o lesilo, o seelele, ga o ithate,
                                                o itlhoile.

                                                Basweu ba a ithata ka ba rata le go tlotla dipuo tsa bone. Dikolo
                                                tsa bantsho di kile tsa bo di ne di ruta dithuto tse di latelang:-
                                                thutapuo; poko; porosa; mokwalo; diane; maele le tekatlhaloganyo.
                                                Dirutwa tse tsotlhe di na le seabe se se boitshegang mo go ageng
                                                puo ya ngwaga ka kakaratso mme dingwe tsa tsona di tsene ka lenga
                                                la seloko, di nyele phuthi boloko. Ke gwetlha Ntlo e gore a re
                                                busetseng dithuto tsa bantsho mo dikolong tsa rona. [Nako e
                                                fedile.] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

                                                [Chairperson, our languages are dominated by other foreign
                                                languages. We, as blacks, have allowed our minds to be influenced
                                                by colonialism. Our minds are so affected that we despise and
                                                look down on ourselves; we have stopped practising our traditions
                                                and our languages. We have adopted colonial languages and pretend
                                                that we understand them better than our languages.

                                                There is no way in which you can understand English better than
                                                isiXhosa or isiZulu as your mother tongue. If you think you can
                                                understand a foreign language better that your own language, then
                                                it shows that you are lost. In Setswana, we say something useful
                                                and provided by nature cannot be allowed to be extinguished. We
                                                have to understand that anything that has a natural value, which
                                                is useful to the society, should not be extinguished.

                                                African languages are weakened and are regarded as being of less
                                                value by the native speakers who undermine them. It is a disgrace
                                                that our children, being black, are unable to speak their
                                                language proudly and effectively. When you find the youths
                                                communicating, without any whites amongst them, they speak
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                                                English. If you ask why they speak English when there are no
                                                whites amongst them, they say: “We do not understand Setswana.”
                                                What a disgrace.

                                                This appears to be the end of our languages and traditions
                                                because these languages hold our heritage and tradition. The way
                                                in which we black people are operating means we no longer know
                                                our language, which means we do not know our identity; we do not
                                                understand ourselves and we do not know where we are going.

                                                For instance, look at the schools that were whites only; African
                                                languages are not offered in those schools at all. I would like
                                                to challenge this House that African languages be offered in all
                                                the schools, and also teach the whites our languages. Let them
                                                learn the same way we learnt Afrikaans and English. Our children
                                                need to be taught that if you do not know your tradition, you are
                                                an idiot, you hate and do not love yourselves.

                                                White people respect themselves as they love and respect their
                                                languages. Black schools used to offer the following subjects:
                                                grammar; poetry; prose; writing; idioms and proverbs, and
                                                comprehension. All these subjects had a tremendous effect in
                                                building general knowledge and some of them have completely
                                                disappeared, they are dead and buried. I challenge this House to
                                                bring back the method of teaching that was previously used in our
                                                schools. [Time expired.]]

                                                Ms T B SUNDUZA: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chairperson.]

                                                I have just received a note stating that I introduced this topic
                                                but I’m also speaking English. My home language is isiHlubi,
                                                which is not recognised in the Constitution, and I was told that
                                                there is no interpreter for isiHlubi. That is why I’m speaking
                                                English. It is one of the indigenous languages. I am not a Xhosa,
                                                but a Hlubi woman.
                                                Yingakho uma ngibingelela ngithe, sanibonani, nathula ngoba
                                                beningazi ukuthi ithini le ntombi yakwaMazibuko. [That is why I
                                                said hello in isiZulu, while you kept quiet because you did not
                                                understand what Ms Mazibuko was saying.]

                                                I’d like to thank you, hon members, for this debate. It must not
                                                end here.

                                                Ngiyabonga kakhulu bab’uMsimang yingakho ngithe [Thank you very
                                                much, hon Msimang, that is why I said] I must raise this issue
                                                because it’s a serious problem.
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                                                Ngombana abantu bekhethu abasakwazi ukukhuluma isikhabo
                                                kwamambala. Ukhe wabona? [It is because our people are no longer
                                                able to speak their languages properly. Have you noticed?]

                                                The reason we are speaking about this is that there are not only
                                                the 11 languages that are recognised in the Constitution, but
                                                more beyond that.

                                                I agree with you, Mr Ntshiqela, that 90% of what the SABC
                                                broadcasts is not even South African English but foreign content.
                                                Language also brings morality into society – morality starts with
                                                the language. I challenge the SABC to change the content. All
                                                languages should be represented. In most cases, the dominating
                                                languages are isiXhosa, isiZulu, Setswana and Sesotho. Meanwhile
                                                other languages are suppressed, even though they form part of the
                                                11 official languages. You must clap hands now, hon members.
                                                [Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

                                                I agree with Mr Ntshiqela that enyanisweni uPanSALB usarhuqa
                                                nzima, ngokuba baseneengxaki mna nawe esivumelana nazo [in honest
                                                truth, PanSALB is still struggling because they still have
                                                challenges that you and I agree with.]

                                                I think that we, as the committee as well, will just have to push
                                                PanSALB on the issue of recognising all languages.

                                                I’d also like to encourage those of us in this House to speak in
                                                our own languages more often – and I include myself, the one who
                                                started this debate. Most of us, when we respond, do so in

                                                Thank you, hon Mulder; for the first time I agree with you – even
                                                if there is 2% where you disagree with me. I want to say that
                                                many of the complaints that we receive are from Afrikaners. It is
                                                not only Africans but also people who speak Afrikaans who want to
                                                express themselves in Afrikaans, in interviews, for instance. As
                                                I said in my opening statement, Afrikaans is also one of the
                                                indigenous languages because of its historical context – I will
                                                not go there. It’s not me saying this; it’s history.

                                                Dis geskiedenis. Dis nie ek wat so sê nie – ek het nie die boeke
                                                geskryf nie. [Gelag.] [It’s history. It’s not me saying this – I
                                                did not write the books. [Laughter.]]
                                                Furthermore, African writers face a serious challenge. Most of
                                                them do not get publishers because publishers want books written
                                                in English. I think it’s a challenge.
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                                                Yilapho ke lungaqhubeki ulimi lwethu. [That is why our languages
                                                do not develop.]

                                                You will find that our own African writers are writing in English
                                                because the publishers are the challenge. This means that
                                                publishers must also start to transform their sector.

                                                As I said, a language is a tool that we use as a vehicle for
                                                human rights and minority community development in the country.
                                                As long as we don’t recognise our indigenous languages, our
                                                economy will not improve because a person who comes from the most
                                                rural or nodal areas to an urban area cannot speak English. This
                                                is because history deprived them of the opportunity to gain a
                                                high level of education. If they cannot speak that language, they
                                                won’t achieve anything economically. They might be skilled but as
                                                long as language remains a barrier there will a serious problem.

                                                Indigenous languages are under siege as we speak, not only in
                                                South Africa but internationally as well. So, it is for us here
                                                to revive those languages, especially African parents. I’ve heard
                                                many people, even members of this House, speak to their kids in
                                                English. The children don’t even know what “papa” – that is
                                                porridge — is. They say, “Mummy, give me that white stuff.” It is
                                                a challenge to all African parents to speak these languages at
                                                home. We even pray in English in our own, African, homes.

                                                Akusathandazwa ngamaXhosa, kwaye asisamazi uyanga iNkosi ingeva
                                                umthandazo wabantwana abancinci; ngenxa kaYesu Kristu iNkosi
                                                yethu, Amen. [The amaXhosa people do not pray anymore and they do
                                                not know the prayer: May God hear the prayer of the small
                                                children; in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.]

                                                We don’t even say that anymore. I’m also challenging churches and
                                                the religious community. They preach in English because of the
                                                diversity in South Africa, but then people don’t follow what is
                                                being said and don’t go to church anymore. Church is one of the
                                                sectors that bring moral regeneration to society. When there is a
                                                language shift, the culture diminishes altogether.

                                                Ngiyacela ukuthi sonke sivumelane. [I would like all of us to

                                                I also challenge the private sector. It is not only the public
                                                sector that must take up this challenge. They must allow their
                                                documents, advertisements and everything to be written in
                                                indigenous languages. I have seen people trying to write isiXhosa
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                                                — they mix English and isiXhosa, then they say they are writing
                                                the language. I think it’s a serious crisis. Thank you, hon
                                                members, for supporting this beautiful hon member in this debate.

                                                Debate concluded.

                                                 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE AND
                                                TECHNOLOGY ON VISIT TO SQUARE KILOMETRE ARRAY, SKA, IN CARNARVON
                                                AND SOUTH AFRICAN LARGE TELESCOPE, SALT, IN SUTHERLAND, 29 TO 30
                                                                           MARCH 2011

                                                Mr E N N NGCOBO: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers
                                                present, unfortunately the managing Whip is saying that I must
                                                summarise, which means that the 10 minutes I had has to be
                                                changed. I don’t know what to change so I will have to speak off
                                                the top of my head rather than from the speech notes. I will just
                                                give a bit of background to what this is all about.

                                                The Square Kilometre Array, SKA, is a radio telescope, and we are
                                                short-listed, together with Australia, in the bid to host it in
                                                the southern hemisphere. We’ve got two main big telescopes in the
                                                southern hemisphere, and one of them is the South African Large
                                                Telescope, Salt, in Sutherland. Recently, on 29 and 30 March, the
                                                committee visited these two facilities in order to familiarise
                                                ourselves with the progress that has been made so far, more so
                                                because the result — who has won between us and Australia – will
                                                be made known early next year. Initially, six countries had
                                                entered for the bid to host the SKA telescope.

                                                The Square Kilometre Array telescope actually signifies an array
                                                of dishes — anticipated to be about 3 000 in total when it is
                                                finished. These will lie in a very wide area right up to Ghana.
                                                The core area is going to be in the Northern Cape province. That
                                                is the area on which the Department of Science and Technology,
                                                together with the ANC-led government, has decided, since this is
                                                a very good site for receiving radio signals. It is sparsely
                                                populated and also sunny. Therefore it is able to do good work.

                                                The Astronomy Geographic Advantage Act was passed, in terms of
                                                which the Minister of Science and Technology has the sole right
                                                to check what activity can be allowed in that important area.
                                                Because we are competing with Australia, we have to beat
                                                Australia in many aspects, and this Act is one of the instruments
                                                by which we entice the international community to make us their
                                                first choice.
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                                                When the delegation went to the Northern Cape, it was accompanied
                                                by the Department of Science and Technology, the National
                                                Research Foundation, NRF, which is actually the host of the
                                                astronomy facilities in the country, and the South African
                                                Astronomical Observatory, SAAO, which is situated here in Cape
                                                Town and is actually the driver of all the astronomy research in
                                                South Africa. The lead host, as I said, the NRF, is presided over
                                                by the chief executive officer, Dr Albert van Jaarsveld, and the
                                                SAAO is led by Prof Phil Charles, an astronomy expert who is
                                                about to go back to England, where he is originally from.

                                                One of the important things that I also want to mention about the
                                                Square Kilometre Array is the radio telescope. At the moment, we
                                                are familiar with only about one quarter of the birth of the
                                                universe. We can calculate as far back as 300 000 years but the
                                                Big Bang happened 4 billion years ago, so we know very little
                                                about what happened earlier. There are many theories about the
                                                Big Bang and that the universe is still expanding and so forth.
                                                In fact, there is now a new theory that life comes from the
                                                stars, from the black holes, and the SKA is going to tell us
                                                whether we are a product of the stars. We have found out here in
                                                Maropeng, at Sterkfontein, that we are the product of the
                                                dinosaurs. Now, by having the SKA, we are going to show that we
                                                are actually the product of the stars, not the dinosaurs.

                                                With reference to the visit to the SKA, we have just launched a
                                                precursor telescope to the SKA. It was checked out last week and
                                                fortunately it was successfully verified by the international
                                                community. It has seven dishes, therefore it is called Kat-7. Kat-
                                                7 is a precursor to MeerKAT. MeerKAT will have 64 dishes to
                                                collect radio waves, but in the end, when we really develop the
                                                SKA, we will have 3 000 dishes.

                                                Some countries in Southern Africa are our partners but we have
                                                gone beyond that, because the wider the area, the more signals we
                                                get and the more we know about what is happening at the end of
                                                the universe. We also have Ghana, which has agreed to host us,
                                                and we will see over time which other countries in Africa we can
                                                negotiate with in order to get as much information and as many
                                                signals as possible to understand the origins of our universe.

                                                Once we know about the origins of our universe, one of the
                                                advantages is that we will be able to tackle even the problems of
                                                climate change, an issue that is at the centre of the modern
                                                world. We are theorising about 50 years to come and that we want
                                                to lower the carbon or gas emissions by 80% to below 1990 levels,
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                                                but we do not know how to do that. With the SKA, we will probably
                                                be able to do that research within one year, so it is very
                                                important to do this.

                                                The SKA office is already established in Klerefontein, about 80
                                                km from the site of the dishes. We also visited that.

                                                In 2000 South Africa and its international partners joined forces
                                                to build the largest single optical telescope, Salt, in the
                                                southern hemisphere. We also visited Salt. The difference between
                                                the SKA and Salt is that Salt is an optical telescope. Optical
                                                telescopes have certain shortcomings when it comes to receiving
                                                waves. For example, if the weather is not good, you cannot see
                                                the signal, whereas with a radio telescope, waves can pass
                                                through even in bad weather. Also, the SKA – and this is why they
                                                say it is very significant – will be able to show us what is
                                                happening in what we call “magnetic regions” at the end of the
                                                universe. Salt will tell us a little, but if you watch the DVD
                                                that shows images from both Salt and the SKA, you can see that
                                                the images from the SKA are much clearer than those from Salt,
                                                which is the optical telescope.
                                                This, therefore, is the advantage of the SKA and its large-scale
                                                research involving many countries as our partners, such as the
                                                United Kingdom, United States of America, Poland, South Korea,
                                                India, Germany, Russia and France. All these countries are in the
                                                consortium developing the SKA.

                                                In terms of community benefits, we visited the school hostel
                                                there. Since Sutherland High School is the only one in the
                                                district offering science as a subject, learners interested in
                                                taking science as a subject often have to travel long distances
                                                to attend school. The hostel offers accommodation to those
                                                learners, mainly children of farmworkers who study science at
                                                school. The poor conditions at the hostel made it difficult to
                                                attract learners to the school, and a refurbishment was
                                                necessary. The upgrades have now been made through the efforts
                                                and funding of the NRF.

                                                So, one of the important outcomes for the Northern Cape community
                                                is that the NRF and this project have brought benefits to the
                                                community and its children. A community centre has also been
                                                constructed in Sutherland, through funding from the Department of
                                                Science and Technology. The town has many social challenges and a
                                                high rate of unemployment, with school-leavers having very little
                                                opportunity to find employment. So, the purpose of the centre is
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                                                In conclusion, the Department of Science and Technology must keep
                                                the committee updated, but we appeal to this House to adopt the
                                                report for the future success of the SKA. [Time expired.]

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperso, I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.

                                                CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON AUDITOR–GENERAL
                                                 - OVERSIGHT VISIT TO HEADQUARTERS OF AUDITOR-GENERAL OF SOUTH

                                                Adv T M MASUTHA: Chairperson, colleagues, it is my singular
                                                honour and pleasure to present this report on the visit we
                                                undertook as the Standing Committee on the Auditor-General to the
                                                headquarters of the Auditor-General in Pretoria and a follow-up
                                                visit the following day to one of its provincial offices, namely
                                                the Gauteng office, which is situated in Houghton in

                                                The purpose of the visit was twofold. The first was to exercise
                                                our oversight function, as prescribed under the Public Audit Act,
                                                PAA, and, of course, acting on behalf of this House, on the
                                                institution of the Auditor-General, which, in terms of the
                                                Constitution, also reports to this House.

                                                The second purpose was to afford members the opportunity to go
                                                through an orientation session and familiarise themselves with
                                                both the faces behind the different units within the executive
                                                and top management of the Auditor-General’s office and their
                                                different operations. They had the opportunity to see how they
                                                conduct their work and were also taken through some of the
                                                challenges and difficulties they encounter.

                                                Let me indicate at the outset that as the chairperson of this
                                                committee, I sleep like a baby at night. I sleep in the comfort
                                                of being confident that if ever there were concerns about
                                                interference with the independence of the Auditor-General in this
                                                country, it is something of the past — if it ever existed.

                                                I interact regularly with the Auditor-General and his deputy. At
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                                                no stage have I come across any inkling to suggest any discomfort
                                                on their part at anyone from the executive, or elsewhere, putting
                                                them under any form of pressure. I really would like to
                                                compliment all three spheres of government on upholding their
                                                constitutional obligation to ensure the independence of the
                                                Auditor-General’s office, so that the staff are able to perform
                                                their audits without fear, favour or prejudice.

                                                I would also like to express appreciation to the institution of
                                                the Auditor-General, which turned 100 in May this year, for
                                                making a significant contribution towards skills development.
                                                Skills development is one of the priority policy areas in the
                                                country, as outlined by the President, starting from this year.

                                                Historically, this country, like many other countries in the
                                                world, has been short of auditors, whose jobs are regarded as a
                                                rare skill. Historically, the face of an auditor in South Africa
                                                was that of a grey-haired, white male. Based on the evidence and
                                                the visits that we have conducted, I am proud to say today that
                                                we met young, handsome and beautiful African ladies and gentlemen
                                                below the age of 30 who were already qualified as auditors. We
                                                take pride in this office’s contribution towards a transformation
                                                in skills development in this country, which is in line with the
                                                ANC’s proclaimed national democratic revolution to deracialise
                                                society and make sure that women participate.

                                                On that note, I also want to specifically alert the House to the
                                                fact that the Trainee Auditor Scheme, which the Auditor-General
                                                is currently conducting to produce new auditors, has the largest
                                                number of auditor trainees in the country, amounting to close to
                                                1 000 at present. Of those auditor trainees, 53% are women. In
                                                general, 97% of those trainees are black, 88% of whom are
                                                actually Africans. So, the current Auditor-General is really
                                                making strides to ensure that the objectives of the Constitution
                                                and the policy objectives of this country — to transform society
                                                with regard to skills distribution — are achieved.

                                                He has gone further and lifted the rate of professionalisation.
                                                It is generally known that if you put trainees into a training
                                                scheme, you are likely to end up with only 5% to 8% of them
                                                eventually becoming auditors. The current Auditor-General has
                                                lifted that percentage and today we have a performance rate of
                                                over 30%. In other words, in terms of the scheme that they have
                                                devised, the prospects of success have been increased
                                                significantly. I think that is a major achievement in terms of
                                                our objective of skills development, especially in the area of
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                                                rare and significant skills, and the contribution that that
                                                institution is making.

                                                The one concern I need to convey relates to the financial
                                                sustainability of the institution, especially in relation to a
                                                default in the payment of fees. As you are aware, auditees pay
                                                for the services rendered by the Auditor-General. The Auditor-
                                                General does generally not receive a budget from Treasury. It is
                                                critical that, upon performance of audit work, auditees actually
                                                pay their fees.

                                                About 43% of the outstanding debt in unpaid audit fees come from
                                                municipalities. There are a number of challenges, of course,
                                                which we acknowledge in the report. You will notice that we
                                                address that in the findings and recommendations we were making.
                                                It is critical that Treasury, the Department of Co-operative
                                                Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and other relevant
                                                authorities look at other ways of assisting those municipalities
                                                that genuinely find it difficult to fulfil their obligations.

                                                Let me also just say that one of the laudable interventions that
                                                the Auditor-General has made is to actually go down to the
                                                auditees to try and understand what it is that contributes to the
                                                perpetuation of disclaimers. He tried to engage with leadership
                                                at all levels to ensure that these issues are zoomed into, that
                                                advice is given, without compromising the independence that the
                                                Auditor-General must maintain, so that he does not become the
                                                player and referee at the same time.

                                                I think it is late in the day. Let me pause at this juncture and
                                                commend the report of the committee to the House. [Applause.]

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson O move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.

                                                    CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL
                                                   DEVELOPMENT - 2009-10 ANNUAL REPORT OF SOUTH AFRICAN SOCIAL
                                                                      SECURITY AGENCY, SASSA

                                                Mrs Y R BOTHA: Chairperson, deliberations on the annual report of
                                                the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, by the Portfolio
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                                                Committee on Social Development were very thorough. Sassa
                                                provides social assistance to over 15 million South Africans.
                                                During the 2009-10 financial year there was a definite growth in
                                                the uptake percentages of the grant types.

                                                In terms of the disability grant, there was a slight decrease —
                                                because of the temporary disability grants — of -1,790. In terms
                                                of the oldage uptake, there was an increase of 6,5%. In terms of
                                                the war veterans — the Second World War veterans — there was a
                                                decrease of 18,9% because of natural attrition. In terms of care
                                                dependency, there was a growth of 3,4%. There was a 9,2% growth
                                                in terms of the child support grant and a 7,6% growth in terms of
                                                the foster child grant.

                                                The key strategic priorities for the 2009-10 financial year were
                                                customer-care-centred benefits administration and management
                                                systems, improved organisational capacity and, thirdly,
                                                comprehensive and integrated social security administration and

                                                The committee accepted the audit response plan of the agency. The
                                                agency submitted the annual financial statements in August
                                                instead of on 31 May. They received a disclaimer audit report
                                                and, in terms of what they have presented to the committee, with
                                                the audit response plan, we were fairly satisfied that they would
                                                bring the agency back on track in terms of what it is supposed to
                                                be doing regarding its financial management.

                                                This week, the new chief executive officer, CEO, presented to the
                                                portfolio committee plans to improve the management of the agency
                                                and also to improve service delivery innovation. This will
                                                obviously go a long way in ensuring that the agency operates
                                                optimally, as it is expected to.
                                                Coming to the recommendations of the portfolio committee, the
                                                committee said that the agency should conduct awareness campaigns
                                                to educate communities on age equalisation, on the old age grant
                                                for male beneficiaries of 60 years, and on the extension of the
                                                child support grant to 18-year-old beneficiaries. When we look at
                                                the child support grant, CSG, this will be especially great for
                                                keeping children in school, since children up to the age of 18
                                                will now be eligible for the child support grant.
                                                The agency should also improve the review of social grants. The
                                                committee expressed concerns over the lengthy review period of
                                                social grants.

                                                Lastly, the department and Sassa should focus more on monitoring
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                                                and evaluation measures and, most importantly, on risk management
                                                as these are critical tools to curb the challenges faced by the
                                                agency in its operations.

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.
                                                 CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF CONSTITIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE - STUDY
                                                             TOUR TO VENICE COMMISSION AND STRASBOURG

                                                Adv A H GAUM: Chairperson, the Constitutional Review Committee,
                                                the CRC, had observed that it might not have been aggressive
                                                enough in exploring, interrogating and exercising its functions
                                                during the first 12 years of South Africa’s democratic era. As a
                                                result, the CRC has once again considered the mandate it has
                                                received from the Constitution in terms of which it is to review
                                                the Constitution annually, seeking to play a more meaningful and
                                                proactive role in this regard.

                                                The CRC identified various opportunities to enhance its knowledge
                                                and understanding of its role and mandate by seeking assistance
                                                from institutions such as the Venice Commission, perceived as the
                                                world’s think-tank and repository of knowledge, expertise and
                                                practical skills relating to constitutional matters. The Venice
                                                Commission extended an invitation to the CRC to send a five-
                                                member delegation to its two-day plenary session in Venice, on 15
                                                and 16 October last year.

                                                The Venice Commission is composed of independent experts in the
                                                field of law and political science. The members are senior
                                                academics, particularly in the fields of constitutional or
                                                international law, supreme or constitutional court judges, or
                                                members of national parliaments.

                                                The Venice Commission consists of 57 full member states, which
                                                are all Council of Europe member states; one associate member
                                                state, Belarus; and seven observer states, as well as South
                                                Africa and the Palestinian Authority, which have a special co-
                                                operations status similar to that of the observers.

                                                The Venice Commission played a significant role not only in the
                                                constitutional negotiations leading to democracy but also in
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                                                assisting the Constitutional Assembly to formulate the final
                                                Constitution of 1996. The commission also played a vital role in
                                                assisting to consolidate South Africa’s democracy through its
                                                assistance to the Constitutional Court, as well as in creating a
                                                forum in which African Constitutional Court Justices meet to
                                                exchange professional experiences and foster constitutionalism
                                                throughout Africa.

                                                The Venice Commission’s most important advisory role is to
                                                provide opinions on constitutional matters at the request of
                                                member states. The Venice Commission could be of great benefit to
                                                South Africa in two areas. Firstly, the CRC needs to interpret
                                                the Constitution to determine what it requires from the
                                                committee, as the South African courts cannot be requested to
                                                interpret the relevant constitutional provisions, in view of the
                                                fact that our courts do not provide advisory opinions. Therefore,
                                                the Venice Commission would be uniquely qualified and positioned
                                                to assist in this regard.

                                                Secondly, the Constitutional Review Committee is of the view that
                                                the review of the Constitution, annually, involves assessing not
                                                only whether or not the Constitution requires amendment but also
                                                the health of our Constitution, including the state of
                                                implementation and its transformational impact on society. In
                                                this regard, there would be a need to develop a new methodology,
                                                towards which the Venice Commission could contribute
                                                significantly. This will require closer co-operation between
                                                South Africa and the commission, which may require South Africa
                                                to consider a verbal invitation that we have received from the
                                                commission to join it as a full member.

                                                Although the Venice Commission had taken a decision in principle
                                                not to extend its membership beyond its current number, it is
                                                willing to make an exception in South Africa’s case, motivated
                                                not only by the commission’s long history of exchanges with South
                                                Africa but also because of the value the South African
                                                constitutional experience holds for many other countries,
                                                especially those on the African continent.

                                                If South Africa were to join as a full member, the South African
                                                government would be responsible for identifying an extraordinary
                                                South African constitutional law expert who would be required to
                                                attend the Venice Commission meetings in Venice four times a
                                                year. Once South Africa acquired membership of the Venice
                                                Commission, it would be able to request the Venice Commission to
                                                express advisory opinions and provide other assistance in respect
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                                                of legislation or constitutional reforms or other relevant legal

                                                In addition to its interactions with the Venice Commission, the
                                                CRC received a briefing from Dr Anil Sooklal, South African
                                                Ambassador to the European Union, on matters related to the
                                                European Parliament and its Parliamentary Committee on
                                                Constitutional Affairs, as well as on the delegation for the
                                                relations with South Africa. The committee also met with Mr
                                                Michael O’Boyle, the Registrar of the European Court of Human
                                                Rights, who informed it about the role of the court and its
                                                application of the European Convention on Human Rights.

                                                Following the study tour, the CRC’s main recommendation is that
                                                the verbal invitation extended by the Venice Commission to South
                                                Africa to become a full member of the commission be conveyed to
                                                the Department of International Relations and Co-operation and
                                                the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development for
                                                further action in that regard. [Applause.]

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.

                                                   - PUBLIC HEARINGS CONCERNING ACCESS AND DELIVERY OF QUALITY

                                                Mrs H H MALGAS: Chairperson, this report has afforded the members
                                                of the committee an opportunity to understand several pressure
                                                points and challenges in the system of basic education which need
                                                to be addressed in order to improve quality learning and teaching
                                                in our schools.

                                                The report deals primarily with issues raised by teachers on the
                                                ground as well as by other key stakeholders, such as parents,
                                                unions, academics, nongovernmental organisations, and the
                                                business sector, identified as having a role to play in the
                                                successful implementation of quality education.

                                                The report raises several problem areas pertaining to the
                                                curriculum and relating to curriculum design and structure and
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                                                its implementation. It also identifies other issues that feature
                                                prominently in relation to the delivery of quality education.
                                                These include: issues at school level; access to education for
                                                vulnerable children; teacher management; and district and
                                                departmental issues.

                                                With regard to the curriculum, we made recommendations concerning
                                                the quantity of content to be taught in certain subjects,
                                                training to impart values, and other issues. The recommendations
                                                included increasing support to teachers. The department is
                                                already working on this.

                                                We welcome the host of initiatives to address the gaps in
                                                curriculum design, structure and implementation that we brought
                                                to the department’s attention and which they are working on.
                                                These include: the introduction of the comprehensive Curriculum
                                                and Assessment Policy Statement, Caps, to provide content and
                                                assessment specification on a grade-by-grade and subject-by-
                                                subject basis; the allocation of time for physical education
                                                within the timetable of Caps; the planned reduction in the number
                                                of subjects from eight to six in the intermediate phase, with
                                                effect from 2012; the provision of workbooks for Grades 1 to 4;
                                                the introduction of critical annual national assessment in order
                                                to track learners’ progress; and guide planning in order to help
                                                improve learning success in Grades 3 and 6.

                                                We are satisfied, because these things are being done.
                                                Preparations for programmes to be implemented in 2012 are being
                                                done in 2011. We are also satisfied that government is targeting
                                                the appropriate areas in response to other issues that feature
                                                prominently in relation to the delivery of quality education.
                                                These include: improvement in teacher development; early
                                                childhood development; inclusive education; and special schools.

                                                During our recent oversight visits to Mpumalanga and North West
                                                provinces, we observed the progress government is making in
                                                broadening access to special services for learners with special
                                                educational needs — that is, LSEN.

                                                We are also encouraged that government is working on improving
                                                school infrastructure through the roll-out of the Accelerated
                                                School Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, Asidi, programme. With
                                                regard to teachers’ development, the committee will closely
                                                monitor the implementation of the new teacher development plan,
                                                to ensure that it is translated into a wide range of teachers’
                                                training materials and collaborative professional development.
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                                                Why acknowledge strides made so far? We are mindful of the
                                                magnitude of this task. Areas that still need attention include
                                                the implementation of measures to address inconsistencies in the
                                                classification of schools, the quintile system, and subsidising
                                                parents in expenses related to school uniforms, shoes and

                                                In conclusion, we are encouraged by the coherent vision of the
                                                department to address many of these challenges, as alluded to in
                                                the report and as articulated in the Action Plan to 2014: Towards
                                                the Realisation of Schooling 2025. It is crucial that all
                                                education stakeholders — including Parliament, principals,
                                                teachers, unions, parents, NGOs, institutions of higher education
                                                and business – address themselves to assisting the department in
                                                these challenges. Education is not only the responsibility of the
                                                Department of Basic Education, but it is a societal issue.

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.
                                                     CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS’
                                                    LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND SPECIAL PETITIONS - LEGISLATIVE
                                                 PROPOSAL TO CORRECT ANOMALIES IN EXECUTIVE MEMBERS’ ETHICS ACT,
                                                                           NO 82 OF 1998

                                                Mna S G THOBEJANE: Modulasetulo, Komiti ya Private Members
                                                Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions e hlomilwe go ya ka
                                                Melao ya Ngwako wa Boset?haba, gagolo karolwana ya bo209. E t?eya
                                                maatla a yona go t?wa go karolo ya bo211. Yona bjalo ka komiti, e
                                                dira mmereko ka morago ga ge Ofisi ya Spikara e tla ba e re
                                                romet?e dimemorantamo t?a go t?wa go Maloko a Palamente.

                                                Go ya ka tshepedi?o ya komiti, re ile ra kgetha go fedi?a Molao
                                                wa bo 138(e) wo o re filego maatla a gore re dire kutu t?a
                                                melaotlhahlo t?eo di tlago hlahla komiti go fihlelela go dira
                                                mmereko wa yona ntle le mathata. Seo sa re dira gore re t?welet?e
                                                karolwana ya bo235(a) yeo e set?ego e amoget?we ke komiti ya ka
                                                fase ya Melao ya Ngwako wa Boset?haba. Ka mo gare ga wona
                                                Molawana wo, re t?weledit?e dintlha t?e di latelago t?eo e lego
                                                kutu t?a melaotlhahlo t?a komiti: ... (Translation of Sepedi
                                                paragraphs follows.)
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                                                [Mr S G THOBEJANE: Chairperson, the Private Members’ Legislative
                                                Proposals and Special Petitions committee was established
                                                according to the National Assembly Rules, especially Rule 209.
                                                This Rule is linked to Rule 211. The committee members do their
                                                job after the office of the Speaker shall have sent them a
                                                memorandum from the Members of Parliament.

                                                We repealed Rule 138 (e), which gave us the power to make the
                                                guidelines that will help the committee to do their job
                                                effectively. We then came up with Rule 235 (a), which has already
                                                been accepted by Parliament’s Rules Committee. We included in the
                                                National Assembly Rules the following points which are the basis
                                                of the guidelines for the committee. [Interjections.]

                                                We guard against, firstly, going against the spirit, purport and
                                                object of the Constitution; secondly, seeking to initiate
                                                legislation beyond the legislative competency of the Assembly;
                                                thirdly, duplicating existing legislation or legislation awaiting
                                                consideration by the Assembly or the Council; fourthly, pre-
                                                empting similar legislation soon to be introduced by the national
                                                executive that will result in a money Bill; and lastly, such
                                                particular proposal should not be frivolous or facetious.

                                                In the light of the above, the Committee on Private Members’
                                                Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions unanimously resolved
                                                that hon I O Davidson should not be allowed to proceed with the
                                                proposed legislation to correct the anomalies in the Executive
                                                Members’ Ethics Act, Act No 82 of 1998.

                                                The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development was
                                                given an opportunity to make a presentation to us. The committee
                                                realised after the presentation that it was very clear that the
                                                department’s intention was to make sure that the legislation
                                                should soon be introduced to close that particular challenge that
                                                was identified by the hon Davidson. We then utilised principle D,
                                                to avoid pre-empting similar legislation soon to be introduced by
                                                the national executive. We then resolved that Mr Davidson should
                                                not be given an opportunity to proceed with the legislative

                                                Re kgopela gore Ntlo ye e amogele pego ye gomme e t?eiwe bjale ka
                                                ge e bolela. Ke a leboga. [We request that the House accept the
                                                report as it is. Thank you.]

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon members, requests for
                                                declarations of vote have been received. I will now allow up to
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                                                three minutes to one member of each political party wishing to
                                                make a declaration to do so.

                                                Declarations of vote:

                                                Mr P J C PRETORIUS: Mr Chairman, I gladly follow the hon
                                                Thobejane. He takes his role as chairperson very seriously and I
                                                commend him for that.

                                                The DA will support this report but need to point out why we do
                                                so with some reservation. This proposal by Mr Davidson was
                                                prompted by the President’s late declaration of his interests
                                                last year and the Public Protector’s finding in that regard.

                                                The Committee on Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and
                                                Special Petitions considers proposals in terms of six criteria,
                                                as the chairperson has mentioned. One of these criteria is to
                                                consider whether the executive would soon bring similar
                                                legislation. This private member’s proposal was referred to the
                                                committee on 4 May 2010 and on 25 August 2010 the sponsor briefed
                                                the committee on its content. A process of consultation and
                                                deliberation then followed.

                                                Key in this consultation process was information supplied to the
                                                committee by the Department of Justice and Constitutional
                                                Development on the executive’s own legislative plans in the
                                                months ahead. The committee was informed by the department on 16
                                                March 2011 that the government was indeed going to bring similar
                                                legislation. The committee heard that Cabinet had already
                                                approved the principle underlying the Executive Members’ Ethics
                                                Act in November 2010 and, further, that government’s own
                                                executive members’ ethics Bill would in all probability be
                                                submitted for Cabinet’s approval in the same month, March 2011,
                                                and to Parliament for consideration in April 2011.

                                                This submission that sets out government’s timeframes formed the
                                                basis for the committee’s resolution to recommend that the
                                                proposal of Mr Davidson should not proceed since it pre-empted
                                                similar legislation soon to be introduced by the executive.

                                                We are now in mid-August, four months later, and sadly there is
                                                still no sign of the promised legislation before Parliament. This
                                                is clearly unsatisfactory and we need an explanation for the
                                                delay. For the Committee on Private Members’ Legislative
                                                Proposals and Special Petitions to be able to do its work
                                                properly and be taken seriously, it needs the support and co-
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                                                operation of the executive.

                                                I want to urge the Leader of Government Business to look into
                                                this matter and ensure that the legislation reaches Parliament
                                                urgently. Our committee also recently took a resolution in
                                                respect of the proposal to repeal the South African Boxing Act.
                                                The deadline provided for the introduction of that Bill is
                                                drawing closer and we will closely watch government’s action or
                                                inaction in that regard.

                                                Finally, we will nevertheless support this report before the
                                                House but urge the executive to take this committee and
                                                Parliament seriously. [Applause.]

                                                Mrs C DUDLEY: Chair, the ACDP welcomes the opportunity to comment
                                                on private members’ legislative proposals in this House. This is
                                                a rare occurrence. The proposals themselves, of course, did not
                                                make it to the National Assembly, which is unfortunate even if
                                                simply because it is the fate of almost all other proposals. Most
                                                Members of Parliament, if they were honest with themselves,
                                                believe that the committee that sits to consider proposals is
                                                just for show and a complete waste of members’ time, as no
                                                proposal ever sees the light of day.

                                                The proposal to regulate private funding of political parties, by
                                                hon Greyling, is one that the ACDP supports. This issue is
                                                important if we value multiparty democracy but sadly to date the
                                                majority have not taken it seriously. We are disappointed,
                                                although not surprised, that the proposal has been stopped in its

                                                The proposal by the DA speaks to a statement by the Public
                                                Protector in a recent report into the President’s breach of the
                                                ethics code which urges Parliament to consider an amendment to
                                                the Executive Members’ Ethics Act to address all uncertainties or
                                                In principle, the ACDP would have no problem considering a
                                                proposal of this nature. However, the recommendation of the
                                                committee is that the proposal is not feasible and should not
                                                proceed. Although this is a standard response, the committee does
                                                say the proposal pre-empts legislation that is soon to be
                                                introduced by the Department of Justice and Constitutional
                                                Development in the form of the Executive Members’ Ethics
                                                Amendment Bill. This Bill was approved in principle by Cabinet
                                                and the final approval is expected in March, for Parliament to
                                                consider it in April. So, the ACDP accepts this explanation and
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                                                will engage with proposals when the Bill gets to Parliament.

                                                Mrs M T KUBAYI: The ANC welcomes the report presented by the
                                                chairperson of the Committee on Private Members’ Legislative
                                                Proposals and Special Petitions.

                                                I think it’s important to highlight how the committee works so
                                                that we don’t end up being misguided in terms of what happens. A
                                                perception has been given by hon Dudley, for example, that what
                                                goes before the committee becomes something that does not happen
                                                properly or could not even be regarded as work being done by
                                                Members of Parliament.

                                                I think it’s important to note that the work of the committee is
                                                guided by the Rules of this House, which have been agreed upon by
                                                all parties. For example, one of the Rules that guides the
                                                committee is that we need to make sure that when we agree on a
                                                legislative proposal we are not dealing with legislation that is
                                                anticipated from the executive. This is what has happened in this

                                                Though we welcome that the issue of the timeframe was raised, we
                                                think it is a challenge we will be able to deal with. When a
                                                timeframe has been put in place, we will be able to follow up in
                                                order to monitor the work that has been agreed upon. I think we
                                                agree and understand this.

                                                However, I think hon Dudley should, for example, go to the effort
                                                of understanding the process that the deliberations have gone
                                                through because it was quite an extensive process. We don’t
                                                decide on a matter in a one-day meeting. It takes several
                                                meetings, briefings and engagements by the committee itself and
                                                involving a variety of people who are relevant to the process. I
                                                think this House should understand that the committee does not
                                                sit just to dump issues or does not take the work of the
                                                committee and members seriously. That is the impression the hon
                                                Dudley is giving, and it’s not correct.

                                                While the hon Dudley is alone and not able to go to all the
                                                committees, understanding the work and processes of a particular
                                                committee is important. The public is watching and we really
                                                don’t want them thinking that what we are doing is wrong because
                                                they are being misinformed. Therefore I thought it’s important
                                                for us to clarify this matter and be quite clear on how we work
                                                and process matters. After all, that committee is one of the
                                                critically important committees of Parliament, because it deals
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                                                with what members regard as being important enough to be
                                                introduced as legislation. If we can understand the work of this
                                                committee and the processes it follows, before we make unsuitable
                                                comments that give the wrong perception to the public, things
                                                will be fine.

                                                Lastly, I think that part of what was presented here by the
                                                chairperson is quite important and true, and we still welcome the
                                                work that is being done by the Department of Justice and
                                                Constitutional Development. They have been able to introduce a
                                                lot of legislation that has worked, while dealing with the issue
                                                of members’ ethics. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

                                                Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, I think it’s a pity that we do not
                                                have many members in the House, but I do believe that this is one
                                                of those matters that we must be very, blatantly honest about.
                                                The fact is that the Constitution, as well as this House’s Rules,
                                                makes provision for any person in this House to introduce a
                                                legislative proposal. [Interjections.]

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, please!
                                                Mrs J D KILIAN: With regard to what is happening at present, yes,
                                                it is true that there are certain criteria on the basis of which
                                                new legislative proposals are evaluated. Then we try, as a
                                                committee, to come to a common agreement of whether we should
                                                proceed or not, based on legislation that is probably in the
                                                process and is to be tabled soon. [Interjections.]

                                                The concerns expressed here today by opposition parties must be
                                                taken to heart because, to date, there has not been any proposal
                                                from any member in the opposition ranks that has ever been
                                                successful. [Interjections.]

                                                HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

                                                Mrs J D KILIAN: We believe it’s time that we make that public and
                                                say it is evident that there is an attempt by the ANC to
                                                absolutely push aside any constructive proposal from the

                                                This instance relates to the executive and the ethics of how they
                                                present themselves to this House and to the public of South
                                                Africa. There are other, similar proposals. I don’t think we
                                                should just brush over this. We should take this to heart and
                                                say: Is it necessary for this committee to exist?
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                                                Mrs L S CHIKUNGA: Chair, on a point of order: I am not sure if
                                                the hon member is debating or raising a point of order. If she is
                                                debating, she must be given the opportunity to stand there and
                                                address the House. This is not a point of order, it’s not
                                                anything — she is debating from the floor. I think that is out of
                                                order. [Interjections.]

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, the hon
                                                member was making a declaration and she can make it from where
                                                she was. She is allowed to do that. However, she is already

                                                Mrs J D KILIAN: Chairperson, thank you for that. I think the hon
                                                member needs to study the Rules because I have the right in terms
                                                of the Rules to make a declaration from here. [Applause.]

                                                Mr P D DEXTER: Chair, on a point of order: One of the members on
                                                the other side of the House made a gesture and I would like to
                                                find out from you whether it’s parliamentary. While Mrs Kilian
                                                was speaking, hon September made this gesture. Now, I am not sure
                                                what it means, but I thought perhaps you could guide us.

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Hon member, I know that
                                                we are not allowed to make obscene gestures. However, since you
                                                don’t even know what that one means, how am I going to rule?
                                                [Laughter.] How am I going to rule if you don’t know? Order!

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chaiarperson, I

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.

                                                     CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS’
                                                    LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND SPECIAL PETITIONS - LEGISLATIVE
                                                    PROPOSAL TO REGULATE PRIVATE FUNDING OF POLITICAL PARTIES

                                                Mr S G THOBEJANE: Chairperson, this proposal presented to the
                                                committee by the hon Greyling seeks to regulate the private
                                                funding of political parties. We had to consult with stakeholders
                                                in this. It seems my focus may have been distracted by the
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                                                declarations! [Laughter.]

                                                When dealing with proposals such as this, we always try by all
                                                means to arrive at a consensus. To date, as a result of these
                                                efforts, the work of the committee has been running smoothly. Of
                                                course it is disturbing and worrying when allegations are raised
                                                that the committee is not doing its work in accordance with the
                                                requirements. This may not necessarily be the correct picture,
                                                but it is a worry.

                                                While dealing with this particular piece of legislation proposed
                                                by the hon Greyling, we went out and met with the Presidency, the
                                                ethics committee and portfolio committees responsible for the
                                                work that was before us. As I said earlier when I presented the
                                                other report, we also looked at the principles and guidelines
                                                that had been agreed upon by all of us in this House to see if
                                                this proposal had any elements of unconstitutionality. We went
                                                even further and got legal advice from Parliament.

                                                I’m not sure whether Parliament’s legal advisers are weaker than
                                                those you may provide, but I thought we were given legal advice.
                                                [Interjections.] No, no, let’s respect the institution. It is led
                                                by people. We must give them that ... [Interjections.] Come

                                                The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order, hon member.

                                                Mr S G THOBEJANE: We were made to understand that if it were
                                                considered and given the opportunity to go ahead, this proposal
                                                had an element that might have a negative impact on the promotion
                                                of constitutional values that underlie the multiparty system of
                                                this South African democratic government. This was also reflected
                                                in section 1(d) of the Constitution of the Republic of South
                                                Africa. This particular area refers to “bigger parties”. I am
                                                sure “bigger parties” may be defined as those that manage some
                                                part of governance.

                                                People who choose to give money to the ANC are not frightened to
                                                do so because it is the ruling party. They will do so openly and
                                                frankly. People who are making donations in this part of the
                                                country may be willing to give money to the DA because it is the
                                                ruling party in this part of the country. But when it comes to
                                                parties that do not own or run any part of government — including
                                                Cope, hon Swart — it will be difficult for donors to give them
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                                                money openly and honestly. Therefore this would be killing
                                                smaller parties indirectly. We then said that this needed to be
                                                looked at.

                                                We were again made to look at section 8 of the Constitution of
                                                the Republic of South Africa. It calls for the status of a
                                                political party to be that of a juristic person. This means they
                                                have the right of confidentiality and privacy when they run their

                                                We also looked at section 14 of the Constitution, which speaks
                                                about privacy, freedom of expression, freedom of association,
                                                political rights and so on. Again we said we could not violate
                                                the rights and freedom of political parties to be funded by
                                                private individuals out there. Trying to look at that, we then
                                                said it was not necessary to have legislation that would compel
                                                political parties to disclose their dealings with private donors.
                                                Therefore we recommend that hon Greyling’s proposal should not be
                                                given the opportunity to proceed.

                                                I think the entire committee reached consensus in this regard. We
                                                unanimously agreed that there was no need to have this kind of
                                                legislation governing our democracy in South Africa. Chair, we
                                                hope you will allow the House space to adopt this report.

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairpeson, I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.

                                                CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS -
                                                    ANNUAL REPORT AND FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF NATIONAL STUDENT
                                                          FINANCIAL AID SCHEME FOR 2009-10 FINANCIAL YEAR

                                                The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:

                                                  That the report be adopted.

                                                Agreed to.

                                                Report accordingly adopted.
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                                                The House adjourned at 17:12.

                                                                   ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS


                                                National Assembly

                                                The Speaker

                                                1.       Introduction of Bills

                                                       (1)         The Minister of Finance
                                                                   a) Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 15 – 2011]
                                                                      (National Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
                                                                      notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 34391 of 24 June
                                                                      Introduction and referral to the Standing Committee on Finance of the
                                                                      National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
                                                                      for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.

                                                                     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the
                                                                     classification of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM
                                                                     within three parliamentary working days.


                                                National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

                                                     1. The Minister of Finance

                                                       (a)         Report and Financial Statements of the Land Bank for 2010-2011, including the
                                                               Report of the Auditor-General on the Consolidated Financial Statements of the Land
                                                               and Agricultural Development Bank of South Africa (Land Bank) for 2010-2011 [RP

                                                2.       The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development

                                                             a) Submission of Directives issued in terms of section 66(2)(a) and (c) of the Criminal
                                                                Law (Sexual Offences and related matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007)

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