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Historic Environment Forum
MINUTES OF THE 38TH MEETING OF
THE HISTORIC ENVIRONMENT FORUM HELD ON
15 SEPTEMBER
AT CHURCH HOUSE, GREAT SMITH STREET, LONDON SW1
Present: John Sell, Chairman
Dave Barrett, ALGAO
Tony Burton, Civic Voice
Laura Clayton, English Heritage
Neil Coe, Greenwich Foundation
Frances Garnham, HHA
Pete Hinton, IFA
Deborah Lamb, English Heritage
Ian Lush, AHF
Duncan McCallum, English Heritage
Gareth Maeer, HLF
Judy Ling Wong, Black Environment Network
Mike Heyworth, CBA
Kate Pugh, The Heritage Alliance
Emma Robinson, The Heritage Alliance
Ingrid Samuel, the National Trust
Jonathan Thompson, CLA
Crispin Truman, POWAlliance/Churches Conservation Trust
Ruth Watkinson, Cathedrals and Church Buildings Division, C of E
Observers: John Davies EH, Richard Morrice, EH.
1. Apologies
Apologies were received from John Barnes, Noel James, Ian Morrison, Helen
Williams and Duncan Wilson. The Chairman welcomed Crispin Truman,
representing POWAlliance.
2. Minutes of the HEF meeting held on 26 May 2011.
The revised version was approved.
3. Matters arising
The webpage bringing together material produced by the Regional HEFs would
be uploaded shortly on the Heritage Alliance website under
http://www.heritagelink.org.uk/historic-environment-forum/
Members welcomed the list of planning-related guidance circulated by EH and
were content with the format.
A discussion of the HEF’s role in skills development was deferred to the next
HEF meeting.
4. Sector update
1. English Heritage, DCMS & Small Champions Group
Deborah Lamb reported on restructuring and changes at English Heritage. The
Heritage Protection Reform Department is currently under review. From now on,
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for the winter season, most EH properties would open at weekends only. She
reported no significant developments at DCMS. The Sector Champions Group
has prepared the HEF agenda, discussed planning reform and how to respond to
DCMS philanthropy agenda at greater length.
2. Planning Reform
2.1 Localism Bill
Mike Heyworth as Chairman of the Alliance Spatial Planning Advocacy Group
updated the Forum on the latest briefing to peers across all parties in advance of
the final report stage of the Localism Bill (10 and 12 October). The Alliance would
be meeting Government Minister Baroness Hanham and Lord Cormack shortly.
Supported by the All Party Parliamentary Group on Archaeology, Lord Renfrew
was considering whether or not to resubmit his amendments relating to
undesignated heritage assets and HERs. Tony Burton added that Civic Voice
and others hoped to secure an amendment to avoid business interests gaining
preponderance in neighbourhood planning while amendments relating to change
of use and community rights of appeal were expected. It remained to be seen
whether the Government would bring forward other sympathetic amendments
The Bill would return to the Commons for final reading, and to Royal Assent by
the end of the Parliamentary Session.
2.2 NPPF
Duncan McCallum had found the recent CLG-led seminars on the NPPF
focussed mainly on plan-making and housing issues. However an EH meeting
with CLG had he felt achieved a better understanding of English Heritage’s
concerns. Further drafting amendments were to be suggested. EH’s Chairman
and Chief Executive had met Greg Clark and were due to meet him again to
press the case for ensuring protection for designated heritage assets.
Pete Hinton reported his experience of a CLG seminar where CLG officials had
argued that the presumption in favour of development was adequately balanced
by the chapter on the historic environment. A clearer statement that any
development harming the natural or historic environment is not sustainable was,
he felt, required to balance the more political rhetoric. CLG officials appeared
receptive to a fuller definition of sustainable development.
Among other similar events, the Alliance’s recent meeting of its Spatial Planning
Group confirmed a high level of consensus among its members over the key
points, reflected elsewhere by natural environment bodies, TCPA and others.
Ingrid Samuel outlined the National Trust campaign. Here, the overriding concern
centred on gaining Government recognition that the overall purpose of the
planning system lay in protecting public interest. Flowing from this, the Trust
questioned the Government’s definition of sustainable development and how this
was interpreted through the document; the default position of yes; the actual
power of local people to influence planning decisions; and finally the clarity of
direction as well as expertise and resources to implement the framework
successfully.
The Forum acknowledged the significance of the political context in which the
National Trust campaign continued to focus the national debate on the higher
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level issues rather than the detail. The Trust aimed for an open and constructive
dialogue at the highest level.
2.3 Historic Environment Practice Guide
Richard Morrice (EH) outlined the change in timetable in producing the Historic
Environment Practice Guide following the advice from CLG to postpone
publication until their own review of Guidance was complete. Minister Greg
Clark’s reply thanking the HEF for its offer to prepare guidance is attached. It
was agreed to offer assistance to Jane Everton leading the CLG review.
Action: JS and RM to draft reply to CLG
RM proposed to incorporate the latest revisions received from the HEF drafting
group, using the extended deadline to improve consistency and reduce length
where possible, and to re-circulate at the end of September. Further adjustment
might be necessary when the final NPPF is published.
The wider drafting steering group would confirm the new timescale and sign it off,
if necessary without waiting for the next HEF meeting in February. Members
agreed to this process.
Action: RM to revise and circulate v10. Steering Group to confirm new
timescale.
The question of badging for the guidance was discussed with the ideal if not
government-badged, being accepted as sector guidance with a degree of
recognition by government.
2.4 Local Authority staff resources
HEF letters outlining the findings of the ALGAO/IHBC/EH survey to Heritage
Champions/Chief Executives had been sent in late August but with little feedback
so far. Several members agreed that the headline figures were useful in
advocacy work.
Dave Barrett updated the Forum on the continuing trend with worrying reductions
in specialist staff in Teesside, Sandwell and Merseyside. Tony Burton added that
the model had attracted the interest of Design Council / CABE in reviewing
design capabilities.
The survey would be repeated for 2012 with data collected in the first quarter.
Members were asked to submit any suggested improvements on the survey
process.
Action: all members to comment on survey process to Duncan McCallum.
2.4. Other updates
Mike Heyworth as newly elected Chair of the National Heritage Protection
Plan Advisory Board updated the Forum on the role of the Advisory Board
and development of the Plan. The Board, meeting twice a year was
committed to developing a sector-wide Plan in which the EH plan would in
due course become a component.
Pete Hinton for the Southport Group thanked members for their
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comments on the draft incorporated into the published Southport Report.
Jonathan Thompson similarly thanked members for comment on the
CLA’s report Averting Crisis in Heritage.
Kate Pugh noted that Heritage Open Days was in the process of being
transferred from EH to the partnership of The National Trust, Civic Voice
and the Alliance. The transfer date is 1 November.
Gareth Maeer noted the huge response to the HLF Strategic Plan
consultation. The HLF Board would consider proposals in October,
leading to announcements at the end of 2011 although the Plan itself
would not be published until April 2012.
Ian Lush reported on HATHOC, the group promoting fiscal incentives.
After a disappointing series of meetings with HMT, it had convened a
seminar with property interests to examine new funding models and was
due to meet again shortly to review its aims.
Judy Ling Wong drew members attention to the importance of, and BEN’s
success in, using non heritage grants to achieve heritage outcomes. Kate
Pugh added that this had been the incentive behind the latest review of
the Alliance’s Heritage Funding Directory.
Tony Burton noted the new All Party Parliamentary Group on civic
societies chaired by Laura Sandys MP.
5. Heritage Counts
1. Heritage Counts 2011
Text: Final comments on the latest draft were requested by end of 20
September. LC would circulate a draft press statement for sign off in advance of
the launch date, 11 October.
Judy Ling Wong suggested an alternative introduction which would be circulated
for approval. Tony Burton requested stronger wording over the widespread
concern felt by the sector over the NPPF.
Action: all Members to
comment on the text to Laura Clayton/John Davies by end of 20 Sept
let LC/JD know if they required multiple hard copies
to comment the forthcoming draft press release.
Roadshows: Members welcomed the proposed series of some 10 regional
events, funded out of the HC budget, in early 2012. These, a practical application
of the Britainthinks work for Heritage Counts 2011, would help develop
community links between heritage and other local groups and Heritage
Champions. It was agreed, however, that the timing and content would have to
be carefully designed to attract them. The Regional HEFs should be involved in
planning and promotion.
Action: Laura Clayton’s replacement to report on the roadshows at the next
HEF meeting.
Action Plan: The HEF Action Plan based on Britainthinks work aims to help local
groups attract a wider pool of volunteers sustaining their involvement over the
long term. HEF members could use the findings for their own local groups and
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report back in 12 months.
As a group, various ideas for HEF to take forward included social media toolkit
and a sectoral calendar. The idea of gaining funding to establish a peer support
network generating a beacon group to support action learning was welcomed. It
was suggested that this might be brought to the next meeting of the NHPP
Advisory Board.
Actions: LC to provide HEF with suggestions on how it could take forward
BritainThinks action point
September 2012 agenda to include report item.
KP to refer to next NHPP Advisory Board.
2. Heritage Counts 2012
Following the August workshop exploring the proposed theme Heritage and
Resilience, Laura Clayton had circulated a paper summarising two linked
concepts. The first, exploring what makes heritage and heritage organisations
resilient (social, political, economic, and natural resilience) would use primary
and secondary research including members’ case studies. The second
demonstrating how heritage makes England more resilient (social, economic)
would be based on commissioned think pieces. The Forum agreed this approach
although it would be necessary to keep it well focussed.
Action: All were asked to provide ideas for authors and others to help
refine the topics to Laura Clayton.
This would enable Laura to develop the research proposals before going on
maternity leave at the end of the year. The Forum warmly thanked Laura for all
her work on the current and next Heritage Counts.
6. HEF matters
1. It had been suggested when revising the Terms of Reference that HEF
members would welcome longer in depth discussion than the agenda allowed.
The following topics came up in discussion:
February: A discussion on resilience
Foresight – to be related to the NHPP Advisory Board’s intention to hold a similar
discussion.
Training and Skills – to be related to a discussion of the HEF’s role.
It was agreed that these would be held outside the usual meetings. Further ideas
were invited.
Action All to email topics with rationale to Kate Pugh.
2. Advocacy Opportunities
DECC is convening workshops on the Green Deal. Princes Regeneration Trust
has offered to help feed in concerns from heritage organisations.
Mary Portas’ review of town centres. Although the consultation has closed, there
is still time to feed in strategic comments on the value of high streets by the end
of the year.
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3. Sub Groups
The Broadening Access Group is due to meet on 6 October
Ruth Watkinson reported that she was reconvening the Climate Change
Group in November with support from SPAB, HHA, NT and CLA. It
would be necessary to establish what areas the sub group intended to
cover in order to be most effective.
Actions: Other interested members to contact RW.
RW to circulate agenda to all HEF members
7. AOB
Tony Burton suggested that HEF members might meet annually on site for a
practical event and for team building. It was agreed to explore this further.
Dates for 2012: 23 February (Church House), 17 May (English Heritage) and
13 September (English Heritage).
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