JULY 18-20, 2006
AUDITORIUM MADRID HOTEL
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task
Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2006 (CLOSED MEETING)
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
1.1 Call to Order/Quorum Check
Chairperson Phil Keown called the meeting to order. A quorum was established with the user
members defined below.
An attendance roster was distributed for all to sign. The following attendance list includes all present
during the CLOSED and OPEN meetings on Tuesday – Thursday (July 18-20, 2006):
User Members Present:
Chuck Alvarez Goodrich Corp
*Andy Bakewell E M Inspection Co Ltd
Stephen Bauer Northrop Grumman Corporation
Alain Bouchet SAFRAN Group
Nick Brenton Goodrich Engine Control Systems
*Robert Custer AAA Plating & Inspection Inc
Jesus De La Cruz AIRBUS
Chris Dootson BAE Systems – (Air Systems)
Rubén Elvira AIRBUS
Yves Esquerre Airbus SAS
*Paul Evans NDT Inspection & Testing Ltd
Mike Gallagher Lockheed Martin (written proxy from Ron Levi)
Steve Garner Eaton Aerospace
Greg Hall Cessna Aircraft Co
Trevor Hiscox Airbus SAS
Thierry Jacques Eurocopter EADS France
David Jimenez EADS - CASA
Serge Labbé Héroux Devtek
Marc-André Lefebvre Héroux Devtek
Philip Keown GE Aviation
**Mercedes Mendoza AVIO SpA
Valery Monin SAFRAN Group
Manfred Podlech MTU Aero Engines GmbH
Bob Reynolds The Boeing Company
Carl Roche Textron Systems
Ron Rodgers GE Aviation
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*Cindy Roth Team Industrial Services TCM Division
David Royce Pratt & Whitney
Bobby Scott Bombardier Inc.
*Ryan Soule Alcoa - Howmet Castings
Andy Statham Rolls-Royce plc
Andrea Steen Rolls-Royce Corp
Scott Sullivan Honeywell Aerospace
Wes Timmerman Raytheon Aircraft Co
Pat Thompson Honeywell Aerospace
Peter Torelli The Boeing Company
David Vaughn Spirit AeroSystems
*Gary White Orbit Industries
* Supplier Voting Member
Patrick Dubosc Sherwin / Babbco
Ian Evans Timet UK Limited
Patrick Gros Novatec
Stein Gulbrandsen Volvo Aero Norge
Serpil Kozludere TAI – Turkish Aerospace Ind.
Heinrich Kuchlbauer Aerotech Peissenberg GmbH & Co KG
Stephen Marsh Timet UK Limited
Tony Mays Maycast Nokes Ltd
Michael Noettl Magnetic Inspection Laboratory Inc.
Alan Parsons Bodycote Testing
Helmut Pfaender Aerotech Peissenberg GmbH & Co KG
Jonathan Pugh Bodycote Testing
John Riddell St Bernard Composites Ltd
Ben Smith Maycast Nokes Ltd
Dave Sullivan Wyman-Gordon Company
Lorenz Vinke Almecon
P. Michael Gutridge
2.0 NEW TASK GROUP USER MEMBERS PRESENTATION
Off agenda item: Phil Keown noted that Manfred Podlech of MTU was presented with a
leadership award by Nadcap at a reception on Monday night. Congratulations Manfred!
Staff Engineer Ford presented the Task Group New Members Introduction.
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3.0 eAuditNet UPDATE
It was suggested and agreed that the user members of the Task Group obtain additional training of
eAuditNet capabilities. This training to cover reporting functionality and any new enhancements.
ACTION ITEM: PRI to schedule time on the agenda for additional training during a closed session.
4.0 SUPPLIER EXTENSION REQUESTS / SUPPLIER ADVISORIES
No extension requests were submitted.
An update report was given on an advisory of a supplier.
5.0 PRIME PARTICIPATION – SITE VISITS
Greg Hall of Cessna Aircraft participated in an audit as an observer and gave a good report.
Mike Gallagher of Lockheed Martin reported on an audit performed by Lockheed Martin following a
Nadcap audit. A number of findings were discovered within the quality system. Another audit was
discussed in which several findings were discovered after the Nadcap audit by Lockheed Martin.
Lockheed Martin will be conducting Quality System audit training at the October meeting for all
Nadcap Auditors. The intent is to address some of the issues identified above.
Andy Statham of Rolls Royce plc witnessed an audit in the UK. The audit went smoothly and it was
noted that the auditor did a fine job.
It was again noted that Prime participation is an excellent method to see what happens during an audit
and to provide ideas for future training.
6.0 AUDITOR ISSUES / AUDITOR ADVISORIES
(5) Auditor current advisories were discussed.
It was requested that advisories be sent to the Task Group Users for review before being issued. Staff
will send advisories that deal with User issues to the Task Group User for a 24 hour review period.
Advisories have been issued that specify items for one User and the issue identified may pertain to
other Users, which should be included in the advisory. General “Staff / PRI” advisories will not be
sent for review.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to provide draft copy of auditor advisories to users for 24 hour review to allow
comment. This is only for Prime specific issues where another user may have the same requirement.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to verify if conflict of interest training for auditors is to be conducted in October.
A supplier request for the distribution of Auditor Advisories was brought forth. Discussion was tabled
until the “open” session so suppliers could be involved.
7.0 TASK GROUP USER MEMBER APPROVAL TO REVIEW AUDITS
Motion made by Scott Sullivan and seconded by Bob Reynolds that Pat Thompson of Honeywell
Aerospace be approved to review audits pending his New Task Group User Member training.
Motion Carried Unanimously
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Motion made by Andy Statham and seconded by Andrea Steen that Chris Dootson of BAE Systems
be approved to review audits.
Motion Carried Unanimously
ACTION ITEM: Training of Pat Thompson to be completed by Staff Engineer P. Ford by July 19, 2006.
8.0 BASELINE CHECKLISTS – UPDATE
Staff Engineer M. Gutridge reported on the ballot results for the baseline checklist to the NMC. There
were 18 total responses with 16 approvals, 1 waive and 1 disapproval. Disapproval comments are to
be addressed by the Task Group during this meeting.
There is a planned release date of September 4, 2006 for posting in eAuditNet and implementation by
December 4, 2006.
9.0 ACTION ITEM LIST – REVIEW
The list of action items was reviewed.
There was much discussion concerning the classification of a major and a minor nonconformance.
This subject is still being addressed by the NMC Standardization Sub-Team. No clear timeframe for
when a revised definition will be provided.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to find out if RAILs (Rolling Action Item Listings) are to be posted on the PRI
10.0 TECHNICAL ISSUES
Andy Statham raised a question concerning ASTM E 2104 and ASTM E 1742 and the illumination
tables. They are not the same in each document. It was reported that the ASTM committee agreed to
make them consistent.
Both the ASTM E 1417 revision 05 and ASTM E 1444 revision 05 have been amended. The latest
document will contain an epsilon letter in the title.
11.0 NEW BUSINESS
Staff has requested a change in the method of reporting failed compliance jobs. This would eliminate
current method of failure notification. The new method would use the Early Review notification form
referenced in NOP-009. The form will be attached to the email sent to the users allowing them to
respond to the recommendations noted by the Staff Engineer.
Motion Made by Dave Royce and seconded by Steve Garner to eliminate the compliance failure
notification currently in use. The Early Review in NOP 009 will be utilized in its place.
Motion Carried Unanimously
The next NDT Supplier Symposium will focus on the baselines. The Method Chair / Alternate will
present the baselines for their methods to the suppliers. Discussion tabled until the Open Meeting to
allow feedback from the suppliers.
The control of the Prime supplements was discussed once the audits begin to use the new baseline
revision. Also, there will be a balloting process, but it is not clearly defined at this time.
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The topic of auditor interviewers was discussed. How can we get more Users to attend? It was noted
that only a few people participates as it is. Users are urged to call in, what can be done to improve
participation? Training of User members in interview protocol to be provided by PRI.
ACTION ITEM 1) PRI Auditor Hiring team to provide a 2 week notification to the Task Group User
members prior to the candidates interview. 2) PRI Auditor Hiring team to put together training for Task Group
User members to aid in the interview process. 3) The time of the interview is to be changed depending on the
location of the candidate. The time will be 1100 EST for US candidates and 0800 EST for the European
ACTION ITEM PRI Staff to investigate recording (video or voice) the Lockheed Martin Quality System
auditing training presentation for future training purposes. Are there legal issues within Nadcap that would
prevent recording of training sessions?
ACTION ITEM Mike Gallagher of Lockheed Martin to investigate, with Lockheed Martin, if the
presentation can be recorded for training purposes.
1.2 Approval of Previous Meeting Minutes
The minutes from the April 24-27, 2006 meeting were approved as written.
Motion Made by Dave Royce and seconded by Ron Rodgers to accept the April minutes.
Motion Carried Unanimously
Supplier Voting Members Andy Bakewell, Robert Custer, Paul Evans, Cindy Roth, Ryan Soule, and
Gary White were identified.
David Yates provided a written request that he be removed as a Supplier Voting Member. The Task
Group would like to thank David for the work he has done as a Supplier Voting Member.
ACTION ITEM: PRI to revise the Task Group roster to reflect the change.
12.0 PRI NDT STAFF REPORT
Staff Engineer Ford presented the Staff Report.
Discussion ensued on data collection, audit report and Auditor metrics and how to apply them.
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13.0 TASK GROUP BUSINESS PLAN / METRICS
The metrics were presented. All metrics are rated red, yellow or green for status. These included year
to date audits (green); Certification issued (green); First pass yield (yellow), Number of cycles to close
an audit ; Initials (yellow) Reaccreds (green); Total supplier cycle time - Initials (green), Reaccreds
(green); Total Staff cycle times - Initials (green) Reaccreds (green); Total Task Group User cycle time
- Initials (green) Reaccreds (green), Percentage of eligible processors with merit (yellow).
14.0 REPORT OF NDT NEWSLETTER
A limited number of copies were available during the meeting. The Task Group was reminded that it
is posted on the PRI website to download. The newsletter was discussed; the Task Group tries to put
as much information to be used by the suppliers as possible. Volunteers are needed to contribute
articles. Staff Engineer Jim Bennett was recognized as having done a great job putting the newsletter
together. A”letter to editor” section was suggested. Also, having a Q&A forum article in the NDT
Newsletter initiated by an SVM representative was suggested. Suppliers to feed questions to the
Supplier Voting Members, the Supplier Voting Members would filter through the questions looking
for similarities and then feed them to PRI. Questions and answers are then published in the NDT
15.0 NDT SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE (SSC) REPORT
The NDT STSTG has had its recognition and support revoked by the Task Group Users. There was
not enough support in the supplier community to complete the agreed action items. The supplier
members are going to re-group and present a plan at the October meeting.
SVM Andy Bakewell requested the Task Group Users to keep the technical information within the
open meeting, and would like PRI Staff to include suppliers on distribution of Auditor Advisories that
are technical or provide clarification. It was determined that there is data of confidential nature in
most of these advisories. It was not agreed to include suppliers as this is a User member method of
communicating issues to auditors.
16.0 NTGOP-001, APPENDIX 1 REVIEW
A finding during an NMC Oversight audit of the program revealed that the NTGOP-001, Appendix I,
was not being reviewed on a regular basis as required by procedure. A review was conducted and
future revision opportunities were discussed. Revision will be coordinated to occur with the release of
the baseline checklists.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to update the NTGOP 001 appendix history block to reflect that a review has
been completed. No changes were made at this time.
17.0 NEW BUSINESS
Motion Made by Ron Rodgers and seconded by Scott Sullivan to adjourn.
Motion Carried Unanimously
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WEDNESDAY, JULY 19, 2006 (CLOSED MEETING)
Off Agenda Item: Several Supplier and Auditor issues were discussed
18.0 PRIME SUPPLEMENTS
The implementation timeline for the baseline was discussed. The planned date for the release and
posting of the baseline checklist in eAuditNet is September 4, 2006 with audits to the baseline
beginning December 4, 2006.
All supplement data from the Primes must be sent to PRI by Monday July 24, 2006. Supplements
received after that date may not be included in the initial release for use in December.
All User Voting Members are encouraged to “call in” for the upcoming fortnightly conference calls, as
many of the balloting and Supplement issues will be discussed.
Off agenda Item: Chairperson Keown gave an update on the Planning and Ops meeting.
There was an audit issue concerning the lack of an accredited quality system audit at a Supplier.
Practice has been that if a Supplier does not have an accredited QA system audit they must have an AC
7004 or an AC 7006 audit in addition to the Nadcap Special Process audit. This practice will continue.
The AC baselines and the Supplements will be balloted to the Task Groups and the NMC. Once
approved, both will be posted on eAuditNet. A final decision will be made on August 18, 2006.
The Heat Treat Task Group is considering that product from all primes / users that a Supplier does
work for, be included in an audit over a defined period of time. The reviews during the audit will be
actual hardware or paper audits. PRI is looking into using eAuditNet to track what primes product is
being looked at during the audit. A time frame or a number of audits that all prime / user products will
be reviewed is to be determined.
There was presentation on how and which Task Groups Users share information.
The NMC Standardization Sub-Team is working on the revised definitions for major and minor NCRs
and is continuing their work based upon feedback from Task Groups.
NOP 006 (Supplier Advisory) and NOP 009 (Early Review) are being combined.
Enhancements are being made to eAuditNet that when a supplier is failing a reaccredidation audit a
flag will be posted to “my QML” on eAuditNet so as the prime / user can be notified of the failure for
potential product impact issues.
Discussion ensued regarding the proposal of a translation of checklists for ease of the audit. This was
proposed at the NMC meeting and will require further study.
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19.0 RESOLUTION OF AC7114 /1/2/3/4 BALLOT COMMENTS
The NMC voting results were 18 total responses, 16 approvals, 1 waive and 1 disapproval. The
baseline ballot comments from the NMC were discussed and responses were made by the Task Group.
A 14-day affirmation ballot will be sent to NMC with the responses attached.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff to revise the auditor handbooks as follows:
7114, par. 5.3.10 – Note that only the specific and practical examinations are required for re-certification.
7114/1, par. 3.4.1 – Add clarification as to what can be mixed (higher sensitivity into lower sensitivity) so
there is not a contamination issue in regard to covering / arranging penetrant tanks.
7114/2 – Remove reference to black ink in the checklist and handbook.
Motion Made by Andrea Steen and seconded by Scott Sullivan to adjourn.
Motion Carried Unanimously
THURSDAY, JULY 20, 2006 (OPEN MEETING)
20.0 AUDITOR TRAINING PLAN
This activity focused on the new Baseline Checklists, Handbook and Prime Specific Supplements and
will encompass a review of the documents focused on specific issues within those documents. Process
controls and prime specific issues related to compliance, document control, prime approval of
techniques, etc., were discussed.
A brainstorming activity was conducted to obtain ideas for auditor training. Presentations will be
made on the following topics: Prime supplements all methods, Prime observation of a Nadcap audit,
audit protocol – basic issues and concerns, major and minor NCR’s – definitions and implications, Pre
penetrant etch training, stamp control, compliance testing and specification / document review, and
procedure review prior to the audit.
The Method Chairs /Alternates are responsible for the training content and presentations at the
October meeting. All presentations on the appropriate presentation template are to be submitted to
PRI by September 1, 2006. The templates were emailed to all Task Group User members during the
Next Meeting – October 16-19, 2006. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
Motion Made by David Vaughn and seconded by Bobby Scott to adjourn.
Motion Carried Unanimously
The meeting was adjourned at 1155.
Minutes prepared by:
Name David Royce
Company Pratt & Whitney
City, State East Hartford CT 06108
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***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this
meeting? (select one)
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring Who is responsible: Due date:
NTGOP-001, Appendix I Mike Gutridge August 4, 2006
Auditor Handbooks NDT Staff Engineers September 4,
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