FEBRUARY 20 – FEBRUARY 23, 2012
SHERATON SAN DIEGO HOTEL AND MARINA
SAN DIEGO, CA
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent
meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the
Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 20 TO THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2012
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS/INTRODUCTIONS - OPEN
Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Coatings Task Group (CT) was called to order at 8:00 a.m., 20-Feb-12.
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME COMPANY NAME
* Nicolas Barthelemy Eurocopter
* Fabrice Crabos SAFRAN Group
Caroline Des Landes Bombardier, Inc.
James Dunn GE Aviation
* Dan Loveless Parker Aerospace Group
Scott Maitland Goodrich Corporation
* Clark Okawa Pratt & Whitney
* Tim Pruitt Rolls-Royce Chairperson
* Jack Saunders Honeywell Aerospace
* Deborah Vogel Triumph Group, Inc.
* Jan Wigren Volvo Aero Corp. Vice-Chairperson
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME COMPANY NAME
* Brent Bartlett Sulzer Metco Canada, Inc.
Mark Dobrowski Cincinnati Thermal Spray,
Lane Donoho Praxair Surface Technologies
James Emery Plasma Coating Corp.
* Dale Harmon Cincinnati Thermal Spray Secretary
Michael Heninger GKN Aerospace Chem-
Robert Jones Plasma Coating Corp.
* Anil Joshi Praxair Surface Technologies
Patricia Langraphi Para Tech Coating, Inc.
Patrick Mahony Praxair Surface Technologies
Roger Ng Sulzer Metco (Canada), Inc.
* John Passmore St. Louis Metallizing
Bharat Patel Likro Precision Limited
Steve Payne Praxair Surface Technologies
Bruce Pederson Praxair Surface Technologies
* Ronald Stewart Ellison Surface Technologies
* Vern Talmadge Howmet Casting –
PRI Staff Present
1.1 Task Group Tutorial
Bob Lizewski presented a tutorial to explain the functions of Nadcap and the CTTG, including
Antitrust, the Personal Code of Conduct and Ethics, Conflict of Interest, and Export Control to
participants. The tutorial also included a separate presentation on Nadcap procedural requirements
for closed and open meeting topics.
1.2 Agenda Review
The agenda for the meeting was reviewed.
Attendees were given the opportunity to identify expectations to be addressed during the week of
meetings. A list was started in the Closed meeting and reviewed again in the Open meeting.
Expectations beyond agenda items included reviewing the number and global distribution of
Nadcap auditors; acquiring information on the Task Group’s vapor deposition coating requirements;
and discussing the current AC7109/5 requirement for curing ovens used for tensile testing to be
compliant with AMS 2750.
1.4 Approval of October 2011 Minutes
The minutes of the October 2011 meeting held in Pittsburgh were approved without change.
The June 2011 minutes Section 4.0 was amended to show that Erkan Kilic (GE Aviation) was
approved as a Subscriber Alternate Voting Member for GE Aviation.
2.0 REVIEW OF DELEGATION OVERSIGHT – CLOSED
Data was reviewed for Task Group concurrence with Audit Report Reviewer decisions. The
delegated Audit Report Reviewers (Jim Lewis, Bob Lizewski and Jerry Polidor) met the criteria of
over 10% audits reviewed and greater than 90% concurrence. Delegation is maintained.
3.0 REVIEW AUDITOR EVALUATIONS AND SUPPLIER FEEDBACK – CLOSED
Auditor Evaluations and Supplier Feedback for all audits conducted between 1-Oct-2011 and 31-
Dec-2011 were reviewed. Aggregate data for Auditor Evaluations and all No answers and
comments in Supplier Feedback were reviewed.
A report out was provided in the OPEN meeting. See Agenda Item 11.0.
One auditor was identified as having a slightly lower performance rating than the rest of the auditor
population. Bob Lizewski will observe an upcoming audit to foster continual improvement.
4.0 SUCCESSION PLANNING – CLOSED
Tim Pruitt solicited volunteers to be the next Vice Chair in the succession plan. No volunteer came
forward during the meeting. The issue will be raised again during the June meeting in Berlin.
5.0 ON-LINE AUDITOR FORUM – CLOSED
Bob Lizewski presented a proposal to use eAuditNet to host the auditor forum. The forum would be
restricted to Subscribers and auditors as the topics may relate to specific audits or accreditation
issues. The location of the forum will be in Task Group documents/Work area. The goal is to roll-
out the auditor forum during the 2012 Auditor Conference.
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to work with eAuditNet developers to modify the functionality of the work area
for use with the auditor forum. (DUE DATE: 31-Aug-12)
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to develop a user work instruction for the auditor forum. (DUE DATE: 31-
6.0 PRIME FLOW DOWN DOCUMENT AND JOB AUDIT GUIDELINES – CLOSED
In a continued effort to provide concise instructions on individual Prime flow down requirements,
the Task Group reviewed methods used in other Task Groups and those suggested by auditors.
Specifically the Prime Flowdown spreadsheet, recently implemented by the Welding Task Group,
was reviewed along with the existing Job Audit Guidelines and suggestions from auditors to
incorporate specific Prime Flowdown requirements into the job audit. The Subscribers agreed to
move forward with the Welding Task Group spreadsheet.
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to modify the Welding Flowdown spreadsheet and send to Subscribers. (DUE
ACTION ITEM: The Subscribers will populate the Flowdown spreadsheet and return to Bob Lizewski for
review during the June 2012 meeting. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
7.0 TASK GROUP RESOLUTION ISSUES – CLOSED
7.1 Closed Meeting Time
The Task Group discussed the future length of closed meetings in light of the emphasis to ensure
closed meeting topics are restricted to issues involving confidentiality. It was recognized that less
closed meeting time will most likely be required in the future as the Task Group has few
confidential issues to discuss during Nadcap meetings.
7.2 Merit Discussion Audits 136684 and 146965
A merit issue was discussed for a main and satellite audit in Task Group review during the meeting.
The issue was discussed and clarified. Subscribers were directed to address the issue in their
7.3 Clarification on compliance to AC7109/3 5.4
A closed meeting session was called by the Task Group Chair at the end of the Open meeting on
Tuesday to address an audit specific question raised by Vern Talmadge from Howmet concerning
expectation of compliance to AC7109/3 5.4.
8.0 NUCAP DEVIATION REVIEW – CLOSED
There were no NUCAP deviations to review.
9.0 NEW BUSINESS – CLOSED
There was no new business to discuss.
10.0 MEMBERSHIP REVIEW – OPEN
The Task Group approved Debbie Vogel as the Subscriber Voting Member for Triumph Group, Inc.
with Robert Nixon approved as the Subscriber Alternate Voting Member for Triumph Group, Inc.
The voting records and meeting attendance for Task Group Voting Members (Subscriber and
Supplier) were reviewed for compliance to the requirements for maintaining membership. The
requirements state that to maintain membership, a member must not be absent without approved
alternate representation from three consecutive regular Nadcap Task Group meetings and the
member, or approved alternate representation, shall not miss a vote on more than 2 consecutive
letter ballots. The Task Group Chairperson is allowed to waive these requirements if other
circumstances warrant retention. One excursion was noted. Robert Nixon had missed the last two
consecutive letter ballots. The Task Group Chair, Tim Pruitt elected to maintain Robert Nixon as a
11.0 NMC METRICS – OPEN
The NMC metrics were presented by Bob Lizewski and reviewed by the Task Group. Metrics
exhibiting an acceptable “green” stoplight condition included Audit Capacity, Certifications Issued
on Time, Supplier Cycle Time (Initial and Reaccreditation), Staff Cycle Time (Initial and
Reaccreditation) and Task Group Cycle Time (Reaccreditation). Task Group Cycle Time (Initial) is
yellow with actual of 9 days versus a goal of 8 days. % Suppliers on Merit exhibited a "red"
The % Suppliers on Merit metric is 64% of those eligible as compared with a goal of 80%; but it is
noted that the metric has improved over the past two years. The Task Group has previously
initiated several actions to improve this.
Bob Lizewski led a review of auditor performance data from audit report reviewers and supplier
evaluations of auditors. There are no significant issues or negative trends. One auditor with a
slightly lower rating than the others was identified. Bob Lizewski will witness an upcoming audit
with this auditor to address specific areas that contributed to the lower rating.
12.0 JOB TRACKER FOLLOW-UP – OPEN
The job tracker was implemented in November 2011. There have been no significant issues
identified with the implementation nor has any feedback been received to date.
13.0 REVISIONS OF COATINGS CHECKLIST AC7109/2 – OPEN
The revision of AC7109/2 Rev B was completed. Changes primarily consisted of removing or
revising questions identified as being non-compliant to the NMC checklist vision and standardizing
questions with recently revised AC7109/1 and AC7109/3. A 45 day letter ballot will be issued for
adoption of the changes.
ACTION ITEM: Jennifer Kornrumpf to issue a 45 letter ballot for AC7109/2 Rev C. (DUE DATE: 31-March-
14.0 FLOW DOWN PRESENTATION – OPEN
A video presentation created and narrated by Bill Hewitt (Bodycote), a supplier in the U.K., was
viewed by the Task Group. This was first presented in person by Mr. Hewitt at the Supplier Support
Committee (SSC) meeting in London in June, 2011 and viewed as a video at the SSC meeting in
Pittsburgh in October, 2011.
The Task Group discussed the importance of helping to improve flow down of requirements to
special process suppliers. Several action items were identified to support improved flow down.
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to send flow down template in mass email to all Coatings' suppliers. (DUE
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to perform data analysis on NCRs to determine how many violations are
related to insufficient/incorrect flow down. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to interface with CMSP and Sarah Jordan (Lead Staff Engineer for CMSP) to
explore possible collaborations to facilitate flow down as many participants in CMSP are customers of
Coating suppliers. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski to make a version of the Bill Hewitt flow down presentation available to
suppliers. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
15.0 REVISIONS OF COATINGS CHECKLIST AC7109/5 – OPEN
The revision of AC7109/5 Rev D was completed. Changes primarily consisted of removing or
revising questions identified as being non-compliant to the NMC checklist vision. Specifically, all
but one question was removed from the Round Robin section, and the requirement for control of
ovens to AMS 2750 was removed. Suppliers should note that Round Robin is a requirement for
some Primes, and auditors will verify compliance to those requirements. The current Round Robin
questions will be moved to the audit handbook and referred to as a recommended best practice. A
new section covering microanalysis of aluminide coatings was added and two sections, Surface
Measurement and Mechanical Thickness, were removed consistent with these sections being
added to the current AC7109/1 Rev C. The issue of external labs being accredited to AC7109/5 in
order to perform tensile testing was discussed. The Task Group agreed to keep this requirement in
the checklist unchanged. A 45 day letter ballot will be issued for adoption of the changes.
ACTION ITEM: Jennifer Kornrumpf to issue a 45 letter ballot for AC7109/5 Rev E. (DUE DATE: 31-March-
16.0 SUBTEAM REPORT OUT INDUSTRY STANDARDS – OPEN
Bob Lizewski presented a report out authored by the sub team tasked with reviewing the possibility
of facilitating the development of industry standards for Coatings since there are few in existence.
After review of the recommendations and ensuing discussion, the Task Group agreed to table the
initiative at this time.
17.0 SUPPLIER SURVEY RESULTS AND SUPPLIER TOOLS DISCUSSION – OPEN
Bob Lizewski shared results from a supplier survey regarding use of the operator exam created by
the Task Group. The survey was conducted via email in November 2011. There was a 12.7%
response rate (108 of 850).
Of those responding, 61% (66 of 108) reported lack of awareness of the exam. Of those who
expressed awareness, 67.5% (27) have not utilized the exam. 60% (6) reported that the exam was
effective for them.
The Task Group discussed possible strategies for effectively promoting the various tools available
to suppliers to help have more successful audits and increase the number of those on merit.
Compiling supplier best practices to ensure adherence to frozen processes was discussed. It was
decided that few suppliers would be willing to share their company’s information.
Dale Harmon (Cincinnati Thermal Spray) shared a presentation on resources available to
suppliers. This had been presented numerous times earlier in the week at new supplier meetings
and the Supplier Support Committee meeting.
The Task Group considered additional supplier training to improve audit performance. Holding
symposiums at Nadcap meetings was seen as ineffective due to low attendance in the past. It was
decided to explore Webex type training sessions to improve participation. Webex training will be 1-
2 hours long and initially target two groups: new suppliers and those wishing to achieve supplier
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team formed to develop Merit Program & Best Practices Symposium. Sub-team
members are Vern Talmadge, Jack Saunders, and Ron Stewart. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
ACTION ITEM: Sub-team formed to develop Audit Preparation Symposium. Sub-team members are Dale
Harmon, Jack Saunders, and Tim Pruitt. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski will consult with PRI Staff in Marketing and eQuaLearn to obtain information
on hosting, promoting and charging for Webex Symposia. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
ACTION ITEM: Bob Lizewski will perform analysis on frozen process violations to glean data on root cause
and corrective actions. The information will be used in the Merit symposia, drive checklist
clarifications/revisions and best practices. (DUE DATE: 31-May-12)
18.0 SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE REPORT – OPEN
Dale Harmon (Cincinnati Thermal Spray), Coatings representative to the Supplier Support
Committee (SSC), presented an overview of the SSC and items of interest from the SSC meeting
held the previous afternoon. For complete details, see published minutes of the SSC posted on
19.0 NMC MEETING REPORT – OPEN
Chairperson Tim Pruitt updated the CTTG on items of interest from the Nadcap Management
Council (NMC) meeting earlier in the day. For complete details, see published minutes of the NMC
posted on www.pri-network.org.
20.0 PLANNING AND OPS MEETING REPORT – OPEN
Chairperson Tim Pruitt and Staff Engineer Bob Lizewski briefed the CTTG on items of interest from
the Planning and Ops meeting and Staff Engineer/Task Group Chair Roundtables. Topics
discussed were Smart Checklist Update, Dashboards, AS9100 Rev C, and Rolls Royce
presentation on NUCAP for MRO [Maintenance Repair and Overhaul] facilities.
21.0 ESTABLISH 2012 NOP-011 MODE B FAILURE CRITERIA – OPEN
The Task Group reviewed 2011 audit failure criteria and proposed 2012 criteria based on 2011 and
2010 audit data. It was decided, without objection, to maintain the audit failure criteria at 2011
levels for both initial and reaccreditation audits.
Concern was expressed about the philosophy of tightening the criteria each year. It was agreed
that outliers obviously failing to meet standards should be failed, but the Task Group expressed
concern that continued reduction of the criteria may negatively impact the program/industry.
ACTION ITEM: Dale Harmon will submit a request to the Supplier Support Committee to investigate
revision to NOP-011 to allow for other methods to establish failure criteria. (DUE DATE: 30-April-12)
22.0 REVIEW EXPECTATIONS/NEW BUSINESS – OPEN
22.1 Cold Spray
An inquiry from Mike Gospodinsky from ASB Industries prior to the meeting led to a discussion
about adding requirements for Cold Spray into Nadcap Coatings requirements. To the Task
Group's current knowledge, there are no Prime or Industry requirements for Cold Spray. Therefore,
per the NMC vision, requirements cannot be developed at this time. The Task Group views Cold
Spray as an emerging technology in the aerospace industry and is interested in developing
requirements should Prime or Industry requirements be developed and individuals with technical
experience in Cold Spray participate on the Task Group.
22.2 NIP 6-01 Auditor Selection and Training
Bob Lizewski proposed that a review of the CT appendix of NIP 6-01 be conducted to ensure that
the requirements are meeting the needs of the Task Group.
ACTION ITEM: A sub-team was formed to review the CT appendix of NIP 6-01 and provide
recommendations to the Task Group at the June 2012 meeting. Sub-team members are Clark Okawa and
Anil Joshi. (DUE DATE: 30-April-12)
22.3 Update on Aligning Hardness Testing Criteria with MTL
There has been no progress since the last meeting. An agenda item will be added to the June 2012
22.4 Future Meeting Agenda
The Task Group agreed that the next meeting will be three (3) days starting on Tuesday. Tuesday
morning will be closed. The Open meeting will begin Tuesday afternoon.
23.0 RAIL REVIEW/NEW ACTION ITEMS – OPEN
The Rolling action item list was reviewed and updated for actions completed.
New action items were documented by Task Group Secretary Dale Harmon. For details see the
Coatings Action Item List (RAIL) posted at www.eAuditNet.com.
24.0 FACILITATOR FEEDBACK – OPEN
Bob Lizewski led a discussion on facilitator feedback for those members in attendance. The
facilitator feedback form is attached to the minutes.
25.0 AGENDA FOR JUNE 2012 MEETING – OPEN
Next meeting will be June 26-28 in Berlin Germany. Proposed agenda items beyond the standard
Prime flow down sheets
NIP 6-01 sub team report-out
Sub teams report out - Webex Symposia training materials
AC7109/2 and AC7109/5 ballot comments, including possible advance notification
to suppliers performing microanalysis
Auditor conference agenda
Supplier attendance at auditor conference
5 year continuous improvement plan
Auditor forum update
Audit Handbook review
The agenda will be posted and accessible at www.pri-network.org.
ADJOURNMENT – 23-Feb-12 – Meeting was adjourned at 3:00 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by:
Dale Harmon, firstname.lastname@example.org
Bob Lizewski, email@example.com
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved
during this meeting? (select one)
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring Who is responsible: Due date: