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The DOUPLE-DIP DEPRESSION in CHARTS

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The DOUPLE-DIP DEPRESSION in CHARTS Powered By Docstoc
					The DOUPLE-DIP DEPRESSION in CHARTS
We will start with the USA first, and then move onto the Global slowdown that is already
underway. Below is a chart showing one of the most obvious reasons to call this a
“DEPRESSION” – not just a recession. It shows the number of Americans now receiving
Food Stamps – already up over 46 MILLION – and rising:




BELOW – 10 MORE CHARTS SHOWING THE WORLD ENTERING A FRESH
DOWNTURN – A “DOUBLE DIP” DEPRESSION…

(1) Below – the severe “double dip” in US house prices – underway now-
(2) The Economic Cycles Research Institute has made the call that the USA is entering
another Recession. You can see why below-
(3) Below – the US “Pulse of Commerce” index is also rolling over-
(4) Below – the take-home pay of the average American heads into decline again-
(5) Below – the number of “miles driven” has always been a very important indicator –
showing the general level of activity in any economy-
CHARTS OF THE GLOBAL ECONOMY:

(6) Below you can clearly see the “double dip” occurring in major stockmarkets all
around the world. And it looks to be getting worse-
(7) Clearly, Europe is in terrible trouble, as we can see from the chart below-
(8) Below – China is also entering a severe downturn at exactly the same time-
(9) Below – you can see why World Trade is buckling – with exports to the Eurozone in
massive decline-
(10) Likewise, imports into the USA are also in severe decline – an almost sure sign of a
serious Recession. See below-




CONCLUSIONS-

Clearly, as many can see, the economic horizons of the world are rapidly darkening. The
coming years promise to be very stormy ones indeed. So what would God have us DO
about all this, my friends?
As I have said before, we need to GET OUT OF DEBT, we need to be PRAYING, we
need to be PREPARING both spiritually and physically, we need to be in FELLOWSHIP
with close, like-minded believers, and we need to be ready to HELP OTHERS.

Above all, we must not give in to fear. Fore-warned is fore-armed. We will get through
this. Because, at the end of the day, it is GOD who is in CONTROL. There is a great
“purging” needed, and it is underway.

Please post your comments below. – Bless you all! – Andrew Strom.

Sources-
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/john-hussman/2011/12/05/have-we-avoided-
recession
http://www.feed43.com/dshort.xml



   1. Its quite amazing how cycles repeat, Does this passage of scripture sound familiar
      to any.


       Eze 7:19 They shall throw their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be an
       impure thing. Their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in
       the day of the wrath of Jehovah. They shall not satisfy their soul, and they
       shall not fill their bowels, for their iniquity has become a stumbling-block for
       them.
       Eze 7:20 And the beauty of His ornament, He set it in majesty. But they
       made it the images of their abominations, and of their hateful things.
       Therefore, I have put it to them as an impure thing.
       Eze 7:21 And I will also give it into the hand of the strangers for a prize, and
       to the wicked of the earth for a spoil. And they shall defile it.
       Eze 7:22 I also will turn My face from them, and they shall defile My hidden
       place. And violent ones shall enter into it and defile it.
       Eze 7:23 Take the chain, for the land is full of bloody judgments, and the city
       is full of violence.
       Eze 7:24 And I will bring the most evil of the nations, and they shall possess
       their houses. And I will make cease the pomp of the strong ones, and their
       holy places shall be defiled.
       Eze 7:25 Anguish comes! And they shall seek peace, but none shall be.
       Eze 7:26 Disaster on disaster shall come, and rumor to rumor shall be. And
       they shall seek a vision from the prophet, but the Law shall perish from the
       priest, and counsel from the elders.
       Eze 7:27 The king shall mourn, and the ruler shall be clothed with despair.
       And the hands of the people of the land shall be terrified. According to their
       way, I will do to them, and according to their judgments, I will judge them.
       And they shall know that I am Jehovah.
2. alice Dec 15th 2011




   Our Father
   Who art in Heaven
   Hallowed by Thy Name
   Thy Kingdom Come
   Thy Will be done
   On earth
   As it is in Heaven
   Give us this day
   Our Daily Bread
   Forgive our trespasses
   As we forgive those
   Who trespass against us
   Lead us not into temptation
   Deliver us from evil
   For thine is the Kingdom
   The Power
   and
   The Glory
   Forever….
   and
   even so, whatever trial, temptation that beset us let us Thank God for His Love,
   Grace, Mercy – in the name of Jesus Christ His Son.
   Even so….
   Come Lord Jesus – Come!
   Many will come in My Name and say “Lord! Lord! Lord!” But I will say –
   “depart from Me – for I never knew you”.
   God forgive us and have mercy on us – although we do not deserve it – we plead
   for it. In Jesus Name – Amen.

3. Willem Dec 15th 2011




   It’s sad, but come what may come… it’s true we must do our best to be debt free.
   We don’t have food stamps in South Africa, you’re on you’re own I think…
   Heard about a poor black woman who went and tried to get a job, that had no
   money.. they didn’t have food for days, her children were young, ,like 5yrs old
   and I think 7yrs old… they went to look for their mom, and they died due to
   dehidration and they hadn’t had food for days. It saddens me… There definitely
   are people that would’ve helped, but they didn’t know about her situation..
4. Michael Etim Dec 15th 2011




   There is great comfort in Isaiah 60:2 For behold, the darkness shall cover the
   earth(economically,politically, socially and morally), and deep darkness the
   people; but the Lord will arise over you, and His glory will be seen upon you.
   Amen, in the name of JESUS!

5. Michael Conley Dec 15th 2011




   So no one will buy sell or trade without the mark, N W O controls everyone with
   foodstamps they can cut them off at any time. Than give the mark out in order for
   people to get food.

6. Jurie Dec 15th 2011




   my friends,

   The Word of God is clear about this….The world will go into some kind of
   terrible debt, the world will be in rescession..and then the antichrist will come,
   and releave the world of it’s debt..many will follow him….i believe this
   rescession is it….

7. Brian Dec 15th 2011




   Andrew and friends, the classic definition of inflation is “too much money
   chasing too few goods.” I’ve attached a link to another financial reality that will
   soon be experienced – massive inflation. While this chart reflects the
   monetization of debt in the United States, the same course has been taken by
   many other nations. We will soon learn if we truly believe that God is our source.
   May it be so. Amen.

   http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?id=AMBNS

8. Francis Dec 15th 2011
   WHAT EVER IS HAPPENING IS WRITTEN IN THE WORD OF GOD
   (MATT. 24TH CHAPTER)

9. Tricia Dec 15th 2011




   These charts don’t show a “cycle”, they show a prophesied event! I’ve been trying
   to say that God showed me this years ago, and as far as I know nobody is listening
   (not that I said it for popularity, but it would be nice if Christians took heed and
   saw what’s coming). Each chart on this blog shows what happened after the third
   seal of revelation was opened in 2008. This is something I couldn’t have known at
   the time, nor that each seal is being opened in seven year intervals. So – you do
   the math!! If you want to see the articles, please go to the contents page at
   http://www.birthpangs.org/articles/prophetic/sorrows.html and other articles
   written after that time.

10. Jimmy Dec 15th 2011




   In the conclusions listed above, I was saddened to not see any mention of the
   sharing of the gospel. This is the most important of all issues that needs to be
   focused on. Please don’t tell me that that’s a given bescause it’s clearly not. One
   can watch christian television where talk of the gospel is mentioned but it’s very
   seldom preached. This is a wake up call for the need of our sharing the gospel
   where ever we go. If we go with that in mind, you’ll notice that God will bring
   fish your way.

11. Derek Hale Dec 15th 2011




   our worldly debts must be repaid whilst not neglecting our debts to our lord and
   master.

   1Sa 22:2 All those who were in distress or in debt or discontented gathered
   around him, and he became their leader. About four hundred men were with him.
   Job 24:9 The fatherless child is snatched from the breast; the infant of the poor is
   seized for a debt.

   Mat 18:25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife
   and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

   Mat 18:27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him
   go.

   Mat 18:30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into
   prison until he could pay the debt.

   Mat 18:32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said,
   ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.

   Luk 7:43 Simon replied, “I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled.”
   “You have judged correctly,” Jesus said.

   Rom 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one
   another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

12. Cedric Credle Dec 15th 2011




   In the year 1994 I was reading the story of the Ark of the Covenant
   being place in the temple of the deity dagon. Now you noticed that the deity of
   dagaon was placed on the same level as the Ark.
   Did not the word say that God would not share his glory with another? The next
   morning the dagon was bowing before the Ark.
   So they replaced the false deity, on the same level as the Ark the second time. The
   next morning when they went in the temple,they found the dagon with its hand
   broken off and the head torn off. I am not one of the famous prophets so,what say
   you? What do the hand represent and the head?

13. Derek Hale Dec 15th 2011




   The hand and the head make me think of the mark of the beast.

14. marty Dec 15th 2011
   This is no surprise. A time of judgement is coming on the church and the world,
   along with revival for those who are prepared by the Spirit of truth. This Spirit of
   truth will also be the the measure by which the church is judged. Don’t spare
   yourself, but totally give and commit everything to the Father and you will bring
   him great glory.

   It looks like a deflationary depression will almost certainly happen first and
   should easily be worse than the Great Depression, and should affect most nations.
   Inflation or hyper inflation will probably not happen for years after this. The
   world will see no other alternative but a one world government and monetary
   system.

15. Kathleen in WA State Dec 15th 2011




   My husband and I rode down that sharp, black diamond slope depicted 2007-
   2009. He worked in real estate, and also for a mortgage lending firm. We owned
   several investment homes and had a sizeable savings. Whomp! In a swoosh of
   breakneck speed the real estate market crashed and his business faded into
   obscurity along with ever other industry associated with housing. Our income was
   reduced to mine alone. The same was true for many in our community (we lived
   near Phoenix at the time. Everyone lost much; some lost all. We fared better than
   most since we had no debt, other than the investment properties.

   This I know: Losses are gains in the Lord’s economy. People are ready to listen
   when calamity comes to call. Whatever the trajectory this current trend takes, the
   fields get riper & riper and the laborers are STILL much too few. Our friend
   Jimmy above is spot on: The Good News is such good news!

   People here in the U.S. are not yet ready to get on their knees. They’re listening,
   but mostly to our politicians. That WILL change as the Lord calls louder & louder
   for the nations to turn to Him, and the calamaties grow ever more dire.

   Great stats, Andrew. Thank you.

16. Lindie Dec 15th 2011
I’ve been very aware of our illegal immigration issue here in the US and have
been seeking the mind of the Lord on this – and have a couple of thoughts; the
food stamp issue is only part of the problem…. Here’s how I see it…. In Scripture
we are told that God blessed Abraham, so that through Abraham all nations might
be blessed… And we also know that the U S was set up and founded on godly
principles and that our foundational documents all reflect our faith in the One
True God… and bit by bit – we have gradually forsaken Him – knowingly or
unknowingly – and gotten away from the truths and concepts as laid out in
Scripture, and we have embraced the unholy trinity of Me, Myself and I…. and
have reached the point where – we would rather buy a hot tub – than buy a well
for a 3rd world country that causes villagers to walk miles for water, and that is
only one example… A few years back it was reported that in America alone – we
spent 8 billion on pet supplies, and how many people do you know that call their
cat or their dog ‘ their children’….? This past Friday after Thanksgiving ( black
Friday ) 11 billion dollars was spent on Christmas shopping, and Monday’s news
reported that over the weekend American consumer spent $50 billion….. and I
feel confident in saying it wasn’t all cash transactions…. We are slow to learn
lessons of the past – let alone look towards the horizon – not only in the U S but
globally – and see where we are headed… Unless we get off this road ( of
materialism and spending) we are going to end up where we are headed… It’s a
no-brainer…. And so – now back to the food stamp issue…. Illegals from Mexico
are pouring in to the USA… and why….? because we have forsaken godly
principles – God is allowing this as a judgement to drain our ecenomy…. And just
as Scripture says God divorced Israel because of their rebellion – the Lord has
removed His hand of protection on the U S in so many ways…. physically and
economically, and things will only get worse, because like a snow ball tumbling
down a steep mountain – it builds as it continues, and we are surely reaching
bottom with our boulder of ungodly values and priorities…. 2012 promises to be a
year of alot of reaping what we have been sowing…. God blessed America and
we have soooo taken Him for granted and gone our own way… To read God’s
Word and then to take a look at the world around us – we see such a sharp
contrast in America…. Where are the Shepherds in the pulpit that are willing to
really get down and preach and teach the truths of God’s Word….? We are
citizens of the US – governed by a President and Congress. BUT – once we
commit our lives to the King of Kings – we become subjects of His Kingdom –
not citizens who sends their delegates to Washington DC to make laws based on
what we want – and govern us accordingly – but we are now subjects of another
Kingdom – the Kingdom of Blue – governed by a King – who not only provides
for us – but also expects us to abide by the rules He has established…. We are
‘pink’ human beings that become human beings of another Kingdom of ‘blue’ and
bit by bit we should becoming more and more blue – but instead we see
Christians who are still pink and Christians that are slowly becoming lavender and
heading in to the blue zone more each day with each choice and decision we make
for the King. God is looking for a royal priesthood – a nation of bluebloods who
will represent Him to all the world. Our lives are not our own – but His and for all
He does for us and is doing for us – our loyalty should be 100% for our Faithful
   and True King…. Yes – the food stamp issue is only one ramification of our
   ignorance and disobedience, and we can’t blame it all on the Shepherds across
   this land – if we own a Bible – we have the Handbook in our own possession….
   Getting fed from the breast of our churches is milk – pursuing a relationship with
   God – is the meat of the Kingdom… Hey babes… it’s time to grow up – for time
   is short… and God is looking for a volunteer army willing to mount their white
   horse and ride with Him and follow the Lamb wherever He goes…. and the time
   is now…. For the Saints and for the Lamb, Lindie in Montana lindieann@aol.com

17. mike Dec 15th 2011




   That’s correct…this isn’t popular news but we need to be honest with ourselves.
   Think about those in Jeremiah’s time. No one wanted to hear that the Babylonians
   were coming and the majority ignored it. When it came they were unprepared. I
   talk about all this stuff, because the church, of all people, needs to be prepared to
   assist and be light in the dark times that are coming. Life as we know it is about to
   change drastically.

18. Meredith Dec 15th 2011




   Andrew,
   What I find so incredibly sad is that in our state we had a woman living in a
   mansion (1.5M) on the water with her doctor husband, whom she said was her
   “landlord” and she was receiving food stamps and money from the state (over
   $1200 a month)! The state had “checked them out” and since where she was
   living, despite the fact she lied, was to the standards that was set out for those on
   food stamps..it continued.
   Then there was a woman who murdered her children and herself because she tried
   to get food stamps and they TURNED HER DOWN! They were hungry and were
   not fed yet this woman is sucking off the state and traveling.

   No only do we all need to get out of debt we need to realize that the system that
   some so rely on is so incredibly corrupt that the results is what happened above.
   Such a shame.

19. Neville Salvetti Dec 15th 2011
   I would like to see a comparison to the Great Depression as it coujld be
   interesting

   We are not even through half the judgements that affect a nation that rejects God
   so it is going tyo get interesting.

20. Robert McDaniel Dec 16th 2011




   Andrew,

   Thanks for this post. It is very timely.

   Isa 9:8-10 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel. And
   all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in
   the pride and stout of heart, The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with
   hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.

   On 09/12/2001 the majority leader of the US Senate quoted Isaiah 9:10 “The
   bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut
   down, but we will change them into cedars.” in a speech to a joint session of
   Congress following passage of a joint resolution regarding the 9/11/2001 attacks.
   The United States nationally ignored God’s warning to repent (as our God given
   wall of protection had been breeched) and proudly and arrogantly stated that we
   would not just rebuild but we would build higher and stronger. But what
   happened…

   By the end of 2001 the Federal Reserve reduced the interest rate to less than 1%
   opening the door to a massive buildup in debt. We refinanced homes, built and
   purchased new homes, the economy was growing everything was getting better.
   What wasn’t seen was the increase in greed as mortgage lenders made liars loans,
   these loans were converted into mortgaged backed securities and sold to the
   world. Then 7 years after 9/11/2001 it all collapsed. The banks were bailed out as
   were GM and Chrysler.

   But did we recognize this second warning and repent as a nation. No, we
   borrowed more money trying various stimulis packages to jump start an economy
   that was failing. The result is shown on the above charts.

   There is a point where repentance, unless it’s on a national level, will not hold
   back national judgement. In site of all of this His Anger does not turn away and
   His hand is still outreached.

21. Shirley Hoster Dec 16th 2011
   Thank you Andrew for blowing the trumpet in Zion, sounding the
   alarm……….may we all have ears to hear what the Lord is saying to His people.
   Joel 2:1,2

22. ab Dec 16th 2011




   So what is the Word of the Lord to believers?
   Don’t fear obviously. Repent and stay close to the Lord. But what about specific
   mortal things to do?
   stock food? how much?
   sell things?
   don’t rent a home?
   create a business or repair type shop?
   are there any specific things we should be doing?

23. KEVIN PAUL Dec 16th 2011




   REJOICE!!! AND AGAIN I SAY REJOICE! This is the fulfillment of Rev. 17
   and 18 the crash and falling of Babylon is happening! The reaction of the holy
   apostles and prophets in the heavens: an UPROAR OF DEAFENING JOY,
   should be our reaction as believers, NOT fear, which during this time is going to
   cause many men’s hearts to fail them in the ensuing days ahead. True, we must be
   wise and prepare like the book of Proverbs tells us to: like the ant colonies do, but
   GOD IS IN CONTROL and He as the Stone of the book of Daniel has already
   struck the feet of the Babylonian image and it is about to be pulverized: what is
   about to happen???? THE LATTER RAIN OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY
   SPIRIT UPON ALL FLESH and the KING coming back!!!!!!

24. John B Dec 16th 2011




   The global economy, and the mess it is in, is an issue of this world and I do not
   think it is wrong to look at the bad reasoning behind the current problem in terms
   of this world.
   The situation is, indeed, a manifestation of what is wrong with human nature, the
   inherent dishonesty. And, indeed, without the Lord Jesus there is no solution,
   there is no hope.
   In Him is perfect peace and perfect sustenance.
   In terms of this world, the article at the attached link gives a good overview of
   what has gone wrong on the ground.

   http://mises.org/daily/5817/Entrepreneurship-with-Fiat-Property

25. les Dec 16th 2011




   Life in America or the world for that matter, will never be what it was.This is a
   highly orchestrated chapter 11 of the whole world.We will end up with only rich
   and poor as the book of Rev. says.
   The latest figures in America says that new unemployment applications have
   dropped and this is presented as good news and signals a turn around.Actually
   there was an increase in the number of people who no longer qualify for benefits
   .Which means when you count everyone unemployment continues to rise.Also a
   lot of people that are considered employed are working drastically reduced hours.
   An unholy trinity is government(U.N.)religion(U.R.-united religions of the U.N.
   such as world councel of churches)ecomony(banksters and big business) add it all
   up you get New World Order
   But through it all God is sovereign.He is putting it in the hearts of men to do
   this.Trust in the Lord.
   The money was taken(stolen)from MF Global and the same is going to happen to
   401ks and other pension funds and this is just the beginning

26. Don Simpson Dec 16th 2011




   I believe we are in the last days it is around the corner and over a few hills.
   Thanks Andrew for these charts

27. dude Dec 16th 2011




   Yeah, I’m on disability. Here in Modesto, CA, you get to be in hell every single
   day. That’s why I’m going to Heaven.

28. dude Dec 16th 2011
   Oh yeah, read the book of Acts, especially Acts 2:38.

29. Friar Alex Dec 16th 2011




   Don’t jump the gun! My father and mum lived through the Great Depression of
   the ’30′s– unemployment was at 25%, today it is about 8% in both the US and
   UK, not remotely close! Look at these charts more carefully: After the Food
   Stamp chart, First Chart, Case-Schiller Composite Index–ending, No Worse than
   Jan. 91 and June 91. Second Chart, US GDP–ending, no worse than 2001, and
   mid 2010. Third chart, Ceridian “Pulse of Commerce Index”: no worse than Jan.
   2004 and later 2010. Fourth Chart, an aggregate of weekly hours times average
   hourly earnings (remember that an Average is only an “imaginary” number based
   on highs and lows being calculated together) no worse than early 2008 and mid
   2009 (low point in 2009). Fifth Chart, Vehicle Miles driven: no worse than March
   1997. [Is fewer miles driven or more miles driven a good thing? Depends on if
   you are the buyer or seller of petrol/tyres/car parts/etc.] Sixth Chart, S&P 500 &
   FTSE100 are better than they were in 2003 and 2008 but not as bad as they were
   in early 2003 or at the end of 2008 into the beginning of 2009; Seventh Chart,
   Eurozone PMI is better than it was in 2001, GDP better than 2003; Eighth Chart,
   China’s manufacturing PMI, a bit grim but WAY worse at the end of 2008 than it
   is now; Ninth Chart, China’s merchandise export to the EU, no worse than it was
   mid-2002; and the Tenth Chart, China’s exports to the US, no worse than it was at
   the end of 97, midway through ’99, end of 2001 and end of 2007. Was the
   recession in the ’70′s “God’s Judgement” as well–and if so, was there national
   repentance that somehow “led” to the prosperity of the 1980′s? I want Repentance
   as much as you do–but I think some people are really over-reacting with this
   economic stuff. It is NOWHERE as bad as it has been in the past. (And it could
   become that–or it could go up–just look at the “ups” and “downs” on the charts.
   Are we to interpret every “down” as God’s Judgement, and then just conveniently
   Ignore any “up” parts to the cycle? I think that God’s Judgement will be less
   ambiguous than this. When HE judges a country or civilisation, you will know!!!

30. Sophie Edwards Dec 16th 2011




   Just wondered – if USA is receiving judgments because of rejecting God then
   why is there no judgment for pagan nations who are anti-Christ. The anti-Christ
   nations persecute God’s loved ones yet are rich with oil. I love Jesus with a
   passion yet my whole Christian life has been filled with trials and denials. Am I
   receiving the judgments of God? I wonder if there is more to what is going on that
   God has not yet revealed to us. I wonder if God’s plans sometimes are so big and
   multi-dimensional that our human capacity to reason is too small to be able to
   understand even if He did tell us.

31. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   Alex, I cannot agree with you here. If you listen to many top economists even
   now, they will say openly that there has never been a crisis nearly as bad as this
   since the Great Depression. When things fall to “1994″ levels or “2004″ levels – it
   is very serious – because since then the population has grown by tens of millions.
   So the country is way worse off!

   By every measure,most economists will tell you that this is by far the worst crisis
   since the 1930′s. And it is only in its initial stages.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

32. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   Sophie – this is a worldwide crisis – but you are right – it is hitting the West very
   hard.

   Why might that be? -Because our nations have had much greater “light” for
   centuries than those other nations. And yet look how our cultures have turned
   their back on God!

   The reason boils down to this-
   “To whom much is given, much is expected.”

   Bless you!

   Andrew

33. dudwheresmyfire Dec 16th 2011
Treat Me Right lyrics
Songwriters: Lubahn, Douglas Harden;

You want me to leave, you want me to stay
You ask me to come back, you turn and walk away
You wanna be lovers, and you wanna be friends
I’m losing my patience, you’re nearing the end

One of these days you’re gonna reach out and find
The one that you count on has left you behind
Don’t want to be no martyr, with no one, no say
Oh my, my baby, before it’s too late

Treat me right, treat me right
Open your eyes, maybe you’ll see the light

Do you think I’m a fool, well you better think twice
I’ve had enough baby, it’s time you realized
That you can’t have it both ways, it’s no way to live
You’ve done all the takin’, it’s your turn to give

One of these days you’re gonna reach out and find
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/p/pat-benatar-lyrics/treat-me-right-lyrics.html
]
The one that you count on has left you behind
Don’t want to be no martyr, with no one, no say
Oh my, my baby, before it’s too late

Treat me right, treat me right
Open your eye’s, maybe you’ll see the light
Oh, treat me right

You want me to leave, you want me to stay
You ask me to come back, you’re turnin’ love away
You wanna be lovers, and you wanna be friends
I’m losing my patience, you’re nearing the end

Treat me right, treat me right
Open your eyes, maybe you’ll see the light
Oh, treat me right
   Treat me right, treat me right
   Treat me right, treat me right
   Treat me right, treat me right

   © EMI BLACKWOOD MUSIC INC.;

34. Victoria Christine Bingham Dec 16th 2011




   In Daniel’s day, the ‘government’ persuaded the king to set up laws that
   specifically targeted God’s people. Daniel did not wait for such a law to be passed
   to decide what to do. His life already demonstrated a clear plan to worship God at
   all costs and permit nothing to lead him to compromise.
   In that way, on the day the ‘bill became law’, his reaction was instantaneous, he
   worshiped his God as was his habit. No hemming nor hawing or days of
   indecision. And he stood to lose, not only his exalted political position, but his
   life. The rest you know. Daniel himself acknowledged that ‘God closed the
   mouths of the Lions’ for him, for ‘he was innocent of any true charges’. Daniel is
   our example today of what to do to prepare ourselves for the times we are living
   in. Laws are again being written to specifically target God’s people. Though the
   economic tumult around us draws us to Elijah and the Lord, who drew their
   sustenance as heaven directed. With a close walk with Heaven, as Daniel, Moses,
   Joseph, and Jesus Christ demonstrated, our answers will come, individually and
   specifically, and on time.

35. DeWayne Dec 16th 2011




   Andrew
   The words of the mature . wise in the Lord abate . sorrow of the heart . Speak
   boldly of tears that sooth.

36. Bob Manditch Dec 16th 2011




   The American dollar bill has the words “In God we Trust” on it. Apparently the
   wording needs to be changed to
   ” In THIS God we Trust”, as they like most nations have forsaken the Living God
   for greed.
   Reflect on the wisdom in Psalm 49 and what Apostle Paul says in 1Timothy 6:
   17-19.

37. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   The whole Western world is the same way.

   Europe as a whole has largely forsaken God.

   Now they are reaping the result.

   Very sad.

   Andrew

38. Michael Dec 16th 2011




   Here is a cold hard fact:.

   US debt 16 trillion give or take a bit
   Global debt in 2004 around 80 trillion
   and in 2011, over 210 trillion (that”s a growth rate of 12%. Global production
   grew in the same period by around 4%. Comforting?)

   How Big is a Trillion?

   In the U.S., one trillion is written as the number “1″ followed by 12 zeros
   (1,000,000,000,000). One year of clock time =
   (60sec/min) x (60 min/hr) x (24 hr/day) x (365.25 days) = 3.16 x 107 sec

   One trillion seconds of ordinary clock time =
   ( 1012 sec)/( 3.16 x 107 sec/yr) = 31,546 years!

   Have a look at this:

   http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us/

   I liked this bit: ” If you spent $1 million a day since Jesus was born, you would
   have not spent $1 trillion by now…but ~$700 billion- same amount the banks got
   during bailout”
   and

   http://www.usdebtclock.org/

   This debt can never be paid off.
   That’s just US alone (let alone global 210 trillion – around 30,000 for every man
   woman and child on the planet!)

   Here is an exercise, try and discover just who is the beneficiary of this debt?

   We don’t need to be prophets of the Lord to know/understand that bad times are
   upon all of mankind.
   Isaiah 24: 1 – 23
   But His saints are confident because this time is fortold in His Word.
   (I Am God and … Isaiah 46 9)
   Also we are assured and confident that He is the final answer to all man’s
   problems.
   Pr Michael

39. Michelle Dec 16th 2011




   The problem with comparing stats of the Great Depression and today is that they
   do not count all the unemployed.

   When a person is booted off unemployment, they drop from the stats. When they
   pick up a part time job, they drop from the stats.

   This is a link where more of the truth can be seen.
   http://www.shadowstats.com/

40. Jennifer Bolton Dec 16th 2011




   Dear Andrew
   You are right in what you are saying about the state of the world’s markets in fact
   the Lord has been speaking to me and I am sure many others about the state of the
   world’s economy that is about to crash in connection with the war that is coming
   in the Middle East shortly.

   You are right that we need to be praying and preparing ourselves both physically
   and spiritually and drawing closer to each other as Christians, this is exactly what
the Lord spoke to me about on Sunday night the 11 December that our local
community churches need to get ready for when tough times come and when the
Mega Storm breaks so that when it does we will be prepared.

I will include in this comment, the dream the Lord gave me on the Sunday
morning and the word He gave me on the Sunday night. I have sent this word to
our minister so that he can prayerfully consider this word and dream and share it
with the other ministers in town so that they can get their congregations ready for
what is shortly to come upon the earth.

Yes we need to pay off personal debts if we can, however the major debt of the
world’s markets will not be paid off. This is leading into the political and
economic alliance that will form the One World Government the evil satanic
system of Babylon in full force both religiously, economically and politically that
the Lord is going to allow to come upon the earth, the darkest hour that the world
will ever know, which Jesus prophesized in His Olivet discourse will come upon
the earth, see Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13.

In fact I have written at different times on your web page comments on different
topics as the Holy Spirit moves upon me to write on these threads, to warn,
rebuke and exalt your readers of these comments to get ready. This is part of the
ministry He has called me to do as a prophetic watch woman for these times. The
Lord I repeat most earnestly the Lord is coming very, very soon for His church a
church without spot or wrinkle of sin or stain of sin. He is going to come like a
thief in the night when people least expect Him or are least looking for Him or in
fact not even desiring His coming for His church. He will come when people are
saying as in Jeremiah’s day before Jerusalem was captured by the Babylonians
peace, peace but there is no peace but will come sudden destruction.

So too today people are saying peace, peace and are praying for peace in the
Middle East which is not what the Lord wants, there will never be any true peace
for Jerusalem until her Prince of Shalom (peace) comes her Messiah the true
Messiah Yeshua comes to sit on David’s throne. I have a word for those who read
these threads and discount the fact that Jesus Christ also known by His Hebrew
name as Yeshua is coming back one day very soon for His church to take her
home and that soon after this event, His Father Yahweh will deal with the nation
of Israel to bring them back to Himself and they will call upon Him by His Son’s
name Yeshua, He will hear and will come from heaven to rescue His people.

I have a word for you people that Yeshua will come one day very, very soon at
the end of the seven year Tribulation which is coming upon the earth at the end of
the Middle East War and the economic crash. That yes He is going to sit on
David’s throne and rule from Jerusalem as His seat of political and economical
power as well as spiritual power as has been prophesized in the Bible by the
different prophets. That God will raise up for David a man to sit on his throne
forever and this man is Jesus Christ who was born a man and is also in entirety
God, in Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form. Don’t you dare
think that just because Jesus went back to heaven in His glorified body that He is
disqualified from coming back here to rule on earth? He will descend from
heaven with a shout and with His holy angels and His church to rule and reign on
earth. He will sit on David’s throne and He will rule from Jerusalem, Israel will
have the full amount of land that Father Yahweh promised He would give to
Abraham and his descendants this promise He swore to Abraham with an uplifted
hand in oath and this promise of the land covenant has been promised over fifty
times in the Bible with an oath. That Israel will have her land restore, her wealth
restored, she will be the head and not the tail as her God will be dwelling in His
Holy temple in the midst of her again for a thousand years before the Great White
Throne of judgment before the new heavens and new earth take place.

God will bring these things about and this is why the markets of the world are
going to crash and why certain people of political and religious persuasion will
join forces. This is the bigger picture, communism is not dead, neither is Nazism,
Islam will be dealt a severe blow in the coming Middle East war of Gog / Magog
but this is just to break its back to send it flying to join the other isms to form the
One World Government power base. This is all leading to the return of the Lord
to rule on this earth. So those of you who discount Israel or think that God has
replaced her with the church you better get your theology sorted and seek the
Most High God, the Living God of Israel and repent of your wrong attitudes
towards His and I repeat His Israel who will be His wife once again through Him
restoring the nation of Israel back into the Olive Tree of Romans 11:12-36, and
Isaiah 54:1-17, Isaiah 60-66, Jeremiah 31-33 back to Himself through them
turning again in faith to Him through the cross of His Son when He has taken
them through the furnace of affliction see Zechariah 12-14, Joel 3, Zephaniah 2-3.
God has not forgotten His people, He has tattooed the walls of Jerusalem on the
palms of His hands to remember her and when the nails went into Yeshua’s hands
that is God imprinting Israel as well as the world onto His hands, He died for
them too to cleanse them from their national sin see Isaiah 53:10 Yeshua died for
Isaiah’s people the Jews for whom the stroke was due. God is faithful and He will
fulfill at His second coming all His good words concerning Israel. This is what it
is all about the church that is part of the Olive Tree of Israel if you don’t believe
me read Romans 11 and Israel, they are eternal see Isaiah 40-49 about God being
their Savior and the nation is eternal and will have an eternal name before God.

His name is in this nation, the land and the people are not a man thing but a God
thing, if you are a friend of God you will support His land and people pray for
them and witness to them but if you reject what God is saying about Israel and
His people you become His enemy as the world is. Anyone who is a friend of the
world is an enemy of God see James 4:1-10 which speaks about this.

Yahweh is judging the world and He is going to pour out His wrath upon the earth
very soon the shaking of the world’s markets is just part of this bringing things to
an end so that His righteous kingdom can come in. This is why we pray the
Lord’s Prayer for His righteous kingdom to come on earth through His Son so that
His will can be done in heaven as it will be done on earth fully when His Son sits
on the throne in Jerusalem. This city is the city God has chosen for Himself to set
His name forever, have you considered why the eternal city is called New
Jerusalem it is because God has chosen Jerusalem for Himself to be eternal, our
savior died outside her walls read Hebrews 13 on this matter, and the end of
Hebrews 12:18-28 about God shaking the earth and the heavens. Have you ever
wondered why the gates of the New Jerusalem have the names of the twelve tribes
of Israel on them and the foundations are of the twelve apostles it is to do with the
eternalness of the nation of Israel and the church before God, the true nation of
Israel which is spiritual and the true Church.

I have written enough I hope it gets you thinking about these eternal issues and
gets your hearts ready for when Yeshua comes for His church to marry her to
Himself when He comes only Father knows the exact hour or day but it is soon.
The Father has been strongly impressing this upon my spirit that it is soon very
soon in fact sooner that we may expect or think. So my word to you is be ready
for Him. Also for you to repent of your attitudes to His Israel as Christians if you
have had replacement theology in your hearts and being taught it in your
churches. Take what I have written to prayer and seek God’s face on this and ask
Him to show you from His word about Israel and stop putting the church in the
scriptures where it talks about the literal nation of Israel and Jerusalem and read
the words for themselves literally take the Bible literally and the Lord will
become more real to you. His prophecies are literal and they will come to pass
exactly in the way the prophets describe events to be except of course when they
talk in figurative language about beasts these represent various political powers.

Now I will paste in what the Lord gave me on Sunday I apologize for the length
of this word but this is what the Lord gave me to write after I had prayed about
what to write in my comments.

First some words the Lord had given me about Jerusalem and Israel over different
days.

No Jerusalem will not be divided but she will be invaded she will suffer loss of
life and damage but I will fight for My people and they will make a treaty with
them which will usher in the Tribulation and the rebuilding of My temple. Israel
will be a strong power in her own strength for a brief period of time but I will
break and shatter the power of her holy ones who will get proud and lofty in their
thinking but I will shatter that power by having the Antichrist come against them
so that they will be forced to call upon Me whom they have pierced and call Me
by My Son’s name to rescue them from danger and destruction. I will reveal
Myself to those who are open and will remove the hardness from their hearts
those who will be rebellious I will destroy but I will only keep those whose hearts
will be Mine and totally devoted to Me, by refining them through the fires of
affliction both in Israel and the Jews in other lands
My Israel too will come under attack by her enemies but I will route these
enemies and will send them flying I will destroy them, even though before this
can happen many Jewish lives will be lost. This is part of my winnowing of Israel
and the nations. I will show Myself as being the God of Israel when I route the
enemies of Israel through Divine intervention, I will prove to the world that there
is a God of Israel and that I am holy and to be feared, for the fear and dread of
Who I am will go throughout the world.

Israel will once again build the temple and will start offering sacrifices again but
it will be done out of religious duty nothing more, they still will have to come to
Me the One who died for their sins as a nation on the cross. When they repent in
earnest and call upon My name for salvation as a nation, then I will hear from
heaven and will answer their cry for help. I will rend the heavens and will come
down to rescue and deliver My people with an outstretched arm of My might,
then I will come at their call in all My kingly glory, I and the holy ones, my
church who will be married to me and my angels will come to her aid. All the
world will see Me in My glory and in My wrath I will deal with the nations who
will be gathered up against My Israel and Jerusalem so that I can enter into
judgment with the nations and with Israel. I will purge and cleanse her on the day
of My return and I will set Myself upon the throne of David in the city of
Jerusalem, once more My Glory shall be in the temple and will be as a covering
over My city which will be holy as I am holy and she will be a deaden of beauty
and praise in the whole earth. She will be made righteous when I have cleansed
her from her filth on that day of My coming.

Words form His word that He speaks to His people to warn them about what is
ahead

Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord God will do nothing without revealing His secret to His servants
the prophets.

John 16:13-15
But when He, the Spirit of Truth (the Truth-giving Spirit) comes, He will guide
you into all the Truth (the whole, full Truth). For He will not speak His own
message [on His own authority]; but He will tell whatever He hears [from the
Father; He will give the message that has been given to Him], and He will
announce and declare to you the things that are to come [that will happen in the
future].
14He will honor and glorify Me, because He will take of (receive, draw upon)
what is Mine and will reveal (declare, disclose, transmit) it to you.
15Everything that the Father has is Mine. That is what I meant when I said that
He [the Spirit] will take the things that are Mine and will reveal (declare, disclose,
transmit) it to you.
The dream I had on Sunday morning the 11 December
The next part of the dream was I was in a building like a government building but
it was to do with the church, I said to someone what land does the church have for
growing food. Someone said the church owns a farm of ten acres, I said what are
they doing with the farm. I said you should be raising dairy cows or sheep and
growing wheat, you need to be growing food. The government of the world you
cannot rely upon the government any more as they are becoming a one world
government you need to be growing food now. I said who is in charge of the farm,
they should be getting young people onto the farm to grow the food now. They
said a person at a desk near the front of the building was in charge of the farm,
speak to him, which I did saying the things I wrote above and I said do you know
of Barry Smith and his books, he wrote about this happening and he said he had
heard of Barry Smith but he didn’t regard him as being reliable and he dismissed
what Barry wrote. I said you can’t depend any more upon the government or
getting help from the government in welfare you must start to grow your own
food, the government is no longer the government of a nation it is a world
government a one world government.

Word from the Lord on Sunday night the 11 December Yes it is to do with
Christchurch and the small town we live in but parts of it can apply to anywhere
else in the world, where you live.

Soon the fullness of the gentiles will be coming in when My Spirit comes upon
the earth in one last great outpouring beginning from Christchurch after the last
earthquake and going around the world. Yes there will be one more big
earthquake and tsunami that will come upon Christchurch and your town needs to
get ready for the influx of people that will come into it and get food and water
ready to cope and to prepare for the troubles that are coming upon the earth. This
town will be a safe haven and a place of refuge and protection I will shield it from
harm and keep it safe in the time of economic woe and strife and war as well as
from earthquakes. I will deal with the deception in this town and drive out those
who are not of Me whilst bringing those who are hungry and open to the gospel so
that they will turn to Me and be sent out as My messengers on the earth. I will
protect all those who are in this town, yes they will be shaken by the quake that
will come shortly upon Christchurch after the one that hits Wellington, destroying
the Parliamentary buildings but fear not you will all be safe some buildings will
be damaged but no lives lost in your town but many lives will be lost in
Christchurch and some lives will be lost in Wellington. They will still be able to
govern but not from the Beehive that will be destroyed totally. When I return I
will rebuild Christchurch and will have this city as the main seat of power for
New Zealand as it bears My name.

People will be saved touched by My Spirit and go forth taking My Spirit around
the world for one last move of My Spirit before I gather My church home to
Myself for My marriage then I will turn My attention back to Israel to bring her to
   Myself before I come back physically to set up My kingdom of which I have told
   you many times this is what I will do.

   I will give you more details about what must be done to be prepared for the
   coming earthquake, war and economic upheaval so that you can let your minister
   know to prepare himself and have other prepare themselves in this town. I desire
   that the Christian community in this town get ready and to draw closer together to
   look out for one another and by this men will know that you all are truly My
   disciples by your love for one another. Tell them I am coming soon for My church
   and to get ready to get ready in the natural and to get ready in the spiritual. I will
   take care of you all in this town until I come to get My bride.

   Signed Yahweh’s Mighty One

41. Jimmy Dec 16th 2011




   Someone please help me here

   “So what would God have us DO about all this, my friends?”

   Rermber the gospel. That is our primary commission. I appreciate all of the above
   comments and agree with most of them. The foundation of all we do must be to
   share the gospel. I don’t hear it talked about much these days.

42. Vince Cedrone Dec 16th 2011




   Next year will not be good for our country, but it will be one of the greatest times
   of souls coming to Jesus that (I believe) we have seen.
   Judgement is on our country, and it is going to get worse. There is a limit to how
   far you can push God to the side, and It has only been his hand that has saved us
   so far. His hand is lifting more and more and it is going to get worse. Food, water,
   guns, and ammo are a must. God has always protected his people, but many had
   to endure some hardships. This proud nation is getting ready to receive a wake up
   call, and it is going to take a while for many to respond. I believe many will be
   saved during this period, and I believe it is going to be years before we get back to
   where we were. Each one of us needs to ask God what should we be doing. Then
   it is all about obidence.

43. awaiting His return Dec 16th 2011
   Sophie, I have been reading an article by David Wilkerson entitled Handed over
   to death which was very enlighteneng re. trials which seem to be never ending for
   some of us. I hope you can get a copy . It is rather old but very timely. I have
   learned so much from Davids teachings. God Bless

44. Traveler Dec 16th 2011




   Let me add some thoughts here. Trillions have been thrown at the dept in bail outs
   and things are only worse. The fact is that what has been thrown at the dept is
   enough to pay off all the worlds depts since the fall of Rome. To place value on
   the money think of what you earn per hour as a reference point.

   The fact is this is all smoke and mirrors where all the money is being syphoned
   into a black hole to make it disappear from circulation. What this tells me is that
   the last beast is making its move to gain control over the worlds political systems
   and establish itself in the form of a one world empire.


   Dan 7:7 And after this I was looking in the night visions. And, behold, the
   fourth beast was frightening and terrifying, and very strong! And to it were
   great iron teeth. It devoured, and crushed, and stamped what was left with
   its feet. And it was different from all the beasts before it; and it had ten
   horns.
   Dan 7:8 I was thinking about the horns. And behold! Another little horn
   came up among them, and three of the first horns were uprooted before it.
   And behold! In this horn were eyes like the eyes of the man, and a mouth
   speaking great things.
   Dan 7:9 I was looking until the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of
   Days sat, whose robe was white as snow and the hair of His head like pure
   wool. His throne was like flames of fire, its wheels like burning fire.

   Notice that this last beast is not biological like the three before it, it is a
   technological beast. Something that could not exist before our day. The all seeing
   eye of surveillance is already here. The nations cannot be brought into subjection
   while they have the power to resist, hence the economic collapse to make war
   impractical. The nations that do resist are in the process of being plundered.

   You all know how this is going to end!

45. truthseeker Dec 16th 2011
   The Word of the Lord came to me: “Son of man, if a country sins against me by
   being unfaithful and I stretch out my Hand against it to cut off its food supply and
   send famine upon it and kill its men and their animals, even if these three men –
   Noah, Daniel and Job – were in it, they could save only themselves by their
   righteousness, declares the Sovereign Lord.

   Ezekiel 14:12-14

46. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   Wow, Truthseeker! Powerful!

   -Andrew

47. JohnS Dec 16th 2011




   The sad thing is that this financial crisis has been engineered by the large financial
   institutions to make a profit and to precipitate greater integration between the
   European states, the latter of which is something that the various publics of
   European Union nations have refused to accept.

   On the occasion of Milton Friedman’s 90th birthday, Ben Bernake made a fine
   speech which can be found here:
   http://www.federalreserve.gov/BOARDDOCS/SPEECHES/2002/20021108/defau
   lt.htm

   The relevant quote is the following:
   “Let me end my talk by abusing slightly my status as an official representative of
   the Federal Reserve. I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great
   Depression. You’re right, we did it. We’re very sorry. But thanks to you, we
   won’t do it again.”

48. Tim (onesimus) Dec 16th 2011
   Consider what exactly was prophesied would happen before the end of this year?
   Then consider whether God is prone to exaggeration.

   If God revealed a coming of a financial collapse there would be absolutely no
   doubt that it had happened. There would be no need to appeal to graphs and
   economic opinion. When the great depression occurred in the early 20th century
   there was absolutely no doubt that it was happening.

   Public repentance and apologies are required when public prophecies fail.

49. Sheeja John Dec 16th 2011




   You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You, because He
   trusts in You. – Isaiah 26:3

50. Michael Dec 16th 2011




   unfortunately the vast majoritory of folk have no idea whatsoever of how our
   fractional reserve monetary system works. This is to the great detriment of all
   people everywhere, Its end result is monetary enslavement for the majoritory of
   people.
   Below is one reason Jesus oveturned the tables and whipped out the money
   lenders. Thieves in a den of thieves This is our monetary system.
   Who heads it up and supports it?
   Who today can buy and sell without using the bankers credit (read debt) system?
   is this indeed the “mark” of the beast?
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg5N_QSoojw
   and this one
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2LjbBfh7Ug&feature

   God said “Neither a borrower or a lender be!!” We said “get lost we’ll do it our
   way!”
   Go ahead said The Lord, but don’t come back and say I did not warn you.
   I marvel that God still cares so much about a stupid rebellious creation! and is still
   holding back the destruction of this “world”
   Do we realise that every dollar we earn/spend/save, or borrow and pay interest on
   is in fact some one else’s debt, they also are paying interest on that self same
   parcel of principal?
   Pr Michael
51. Frank in Africa Dec 16th 2011




   I am actually encouraged to read so many good comments and posts that show
   there is a remnant of people in the USA who understand the patterns of Scripture
   and therefore understand the condition of our nation and the world.

   I disciple believers in this African nation and translate basic teachings into their
   language that they can grow and not be swayed by the storm that is around us.
   Giving the gospel and mentoring younger believers in the ways of God and the
   disciplines of the faith are as vital now as they have ever been. I echo the
   comment earlier to not get caught up too much in analyzing and lamenting in the
   problem and be serious about our calling to disciple the nations in the gospel. You
   think things are bad in the US, come to Malawi! Africa is in a mess and the
   people here are not spiritually equipped to cope with it all. Where are God’s
   laborers to disciple these people? It is not easy living and working in places like
   this but the heavenly rewards are worth the effort.

   Again thanks to all for your insightful comments. And especially to Andrew for
   making such fellowship possible with this web site and ministry. Love and
   blessing in Christ.

52. Daniel Dec 16th 2011




   Nov 2011; I heard the Lord speak that in less then 18months; the usa will fall
   apart………not go BK; usa $$$ will be worthless.
   it is the plan of the globalish, to bring in a world money system. that is why usa
   just gave 7.2 trillion to the Euro……….if one is traveling at 100mph, you can’t
   grab and stop them, yet that is what usa just did; euro is going to pull usa down.
   usa gave Egpt 100million, spent 1.3billion on Libia.
   usa is protecting its god, $$$$$; sad that christians are letting bankers (usa’s
   religion’s priets), get their bonuses, banks not closed; yet people are livving in
   cars and that is OK with the church……………cause the church is also serving
   $$$$, not God.
   When one is hurting and need $$$, the church leaders don’t open the ‘storehouse’;
   yet collected as if they HAD one.
   Yet when church needs $$$, they take up an extra offering…………why don’t
   they do as they preach…………have faith, trust God to provide ???

53. Andrew Dec 16th 2011
   Dear Onesimus,

   My predictions were very clear – that a “second wave down” or ‘second dip’
   would begin by the end of 2011. Are you saying that this is not already
   underway?

   My predictions also state that the Depression will last for “years” – in fact that the
   ‘Worst’ of it will last for 7 years.

   Depressions always come in phases. Recessions are over so quickly that there is
   only one “phase”. Not so with Depressions. What we call the ‘Great Depression’
   had several phases. The second (and worst) phase began not in 1929 but in 1931
   when there was a collapse in the European banking system.

   I have always said that the current Depression began in late 2008 – that there was
   a pseudo-”Recovery” after the initial collapse – and that there would come a
   “second wave down” into a (presumably) worse phase of the crisis. I said that if
   this “second dip” had not begun by the end of 2011, then I would be glad to
   apologize.

   I will post my “14 Predictions” here – and you be the judge.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

54. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   “THE 14 PREDICTIONS” – Andrew Strom

   Below is a timeline of the specific warnings that we published from 2001 to
   2010…

   SEPT 11, 2001: “The HORNS of American financial power have fallen, have
   fallen…” [-About the Twin Towers].

   JUNE 2003: “Revival is going to come in the midst of judgments the like of
   which you’ve never seen, and God is going to touch your economy…” (-
   ’Thundering in Nashville’).
14 DEC 2006: “Let me make some predictions at this point, so I can be clear
about what this country [USA] is facing:
(1) Firstly, I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid Judgment…
(2) Expect a great economic crash – and expect it SOON.

MARCH 14, 2007: “Eight months ago we began to publish warnings about the
bursting of this Housing bubble, and the likely impact it would have… saying that
in many ways it would be God’s MERCY – to shock us out of our complacency
and apathy – and to cause us
to desperately seek His face.”

NOV 8, 2007: “I continue to stand by my statement of many months ago that
within 3 years this nation will be in a terrible financial depression – possibly the
worst that it has ever seen. Right now, things are right on track to see this
fulfilled.”

NOV 2007, Wisconsin USA: “This is the last good Christmas America will have
for years…. -Here’s my scenario. You can test me. You can remember what I’m
saying right now…. See if it plays out how I say. In six months time I expect
Recession in the United States. In 12 months time I expect the beginning of a
Depression.” (-AUDIO – ‘Survive the Coming Depression – Nov 07′ on
Sermonindex.net).

10 MONTHS LATER – Sept/Oct 2008 – The two largest Mortgage giants in the
world (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) fail, the largest Insurance Company and the
largest thrift bank in the USA both collapse, Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt
(almost taking the entire financial system with it), Money Markets reel, the
Investment banking industry crumbles, and the stock market suffers its
worst-ever one-day loss, plunging 777 points in a single day.

24 SEPT 2008: “The DEPRESSION HAS BEGUN”.

BACK-TRACK – 31 JAN 2008: “My strong belief is that, particularly in
America, this crisis is going to be WORSE than the GREAT DEPRESSION. And
it is going to last for YEARS. Other developed nations, such as England, Ireland,
Spain, Canada, Germany and
even Australasia, are going to be very hard-hit also. China, India and much of
Asia will be pounded at first, but I believe will recover faster…. I believe that
Christians in America need to face the fact that they are about to live through one
of the WORST 5 – 7 year periods that this country has ever seen by far. And they
need to
be preparing NOW.”

OCT 2008: “I am convinced this ‘breaking’ is not merely financial in nature. It is
also aimed at the church, the media and the culture…. We are about to see another
   ‘Great Reformation’.” (-From Andrew’s book, ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’,
   Oct 2008).

   OCT 2008: “When I was down in Mississippi after Hurricane Katrina there was
   one Spirit-filled Fellowship that was ‘thriving in the midst of the chaos. They had
   filled their sanctuary with food, clothes, and
   emergency supplies of all kinds – and they were ministering to hundreds… I
   cannot tell you how important this is, if we want to “thrive” – not just ‘survive’ –
   through this current crisis… So will you be a ‘light shining in the darkness’
   during this present crisis, my friends?” (-Book ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’,
   Oct 2008).

   20 DEC 2008: “The WORST of the slump is set to last for… 7 years.”

   10 APRIL 2009: “A ‘DOUBLE DIP’ DEPRESSION .. The phrase “A Double-
   Dip Depression” has been on my heart for many months, so it is no surprise to see
   a temporary respite. But we need to be aware that it is simply an illusion – so we
   don’t get lulled back to
   sleep and cease to prepare for what lies ahead.

   18 JUNE 2009: “We stated not long ago our belief that we are headed for a
   ‘Double-Dip’ Depression… I do believe there will be a further ‘wave’
   downwards, and we need to keep preparing – both physically and spiritually.”

   1 APRIL 2010: “If this ‘second wave down’ has not occurred by the end of 2011
   then I will need to issue a public apology to the Body of Christ.”
   ——————————

   Please read the above points carefully. If you think I need to apologize, then I am
   certainly willing to do so.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

55. Heather Anne Dec 16th 2011




   Thank you so much for posting this Andrew! Thank you for your encouragement
   to not give into fear and to get out of debt and to reach out to others in these
   trying times! Bless you and yours as we press on together!

56. Goldmine Media Dec 16th 2011
   We are translating Andrew’s books into Dutch, maybe we should give “Survive
   the depression” priority …

57. Traveler Dec 16th 2011




   Actually Tim it is now the secular news media that is telling us the wheel of the
   worlds economy have come off. Things are still happening because of momentum
   and hope but the actual engine that drives the creation of wealth has already
   stalled and the economy is coasting in neutral as it gradually slows to a halt.

   Just because things kind of look OK where you are does not take into account
   what is happening elsewhere in the world. Just remember all those collapsed 3rd
   world countries were not always like that, some of them were very prosperous
   before their revolutions, (New orders) swept through and gathered the reigns of
   power. The same cycle is just “progressing” to the west now.

58. Traveler Dec 16th 2011




   A lot of Gods prophets have seen this crash coming, though I figured it out the
   secular way when I noticed that people were trying to make an industry out of
   information because there was nothing else left to work with other than the easts
   manufactured goods that they were trying to sell to each other at inflated prices.

   Anyway what I post below is from a guy called Thomas Gibson, a prophet up
   here in Canada.

   January 21, 1998 [1998 01 21.1]

   For thus says the Lord, you shall see, in the next few months, a big crash on the
   stock market, and then you shall see it again, and then more of the same. For
   crash after crash shall soon occur and it shall come down to the level I have
   declared.

   For the time of the spending of big money over the earth has come to an end. I
   have been fed up with the total consumption of this earth with power and money
   even to the extent that My people are put to shame in the same sin!
   July 5, 1998 [1998 07 05.1]

   This is the circumstances to which this earth is heading. It will lose control of its
   societies as it heads in to the greatest economic collapse that will befall mankind.

   This collapse shall come fairly quickly, and as it comes people will stop obeying
   the law, because it is no longer convenient for them. As they become
   economically deprived they shall turn to illegal activities in greater and greater
   numbers, till authorities cannot control it in any way.

   August 11, 2002 [2002 08 11.1]

   As I was in prayer this afternoon the Lord showed me the following: I could see a
   chart with one line on it. It went up and down in a jerky fashion. Suddenly it
   dropped off so low that it was almost off the bottom. Then it continued its jerky
   up and down motion, but it was now doing so very near the bottom of the chart.

   Then the Lord said: this is the stock market. You will soon see the sudden drop
   off to the bottom. Many will not believe that it cannot rise again–but each attempt
   to ressurrect their money god will result in failure.

59. Andrew Dec 16th 2011




   Traveler – Gibson’s 1998 dates are clearly not right. I am not sure why you posted
   that.

   To everyone-

   In January I would like to put this question to our whole email list – whether or
   not I should apologize for this “double dip” prediction.

   I am certainly willing to do so if people think it is untrue.

   I would rather apologize if it is not right. Seriously.

   Would like to hear what people think about this.

   -Andrew

60. John B Dec 16th 2011
   Of course you shouldn’t, Andrew.
   And it is going to get worse.
   Money cannot just be created out of thin air, used to buy goods and services, and
   expect things to be okay.
   It’s called counterfeiting. Or forgery. Keynesian economics is a satanic delusion
   but most of the world economists and financial structures run by it.
   Sooner or later it will create global government as it a side effect of the theft of
   real wealth is to concentrate wealth and control into the money printers’ hands.
   This might have been simply rejected by the people in previous times, as they saw
   their wealth being eroded and stolen.
   But now with technology, as a bank manager said to me the other day: There’s
   nowhere to hide.
   They have got you and you wealth pretty much in control and the technology gets
   better every day.
   Total control has arrived!
   The global empire is not only possible, but perhaps even becoming (as they see it)
   necessary.
   But the controllers don’t really believe in God and I wonder what He is going to
   do?
   Praise Him! Praise God. Praise the Lord Jesus.
   What is going to happen next, indeed?!

61. Traveler Dec 16th 2011




   Traveler – Gibson’s 1998 dates are clearly not right. I am not sure why you posted
   that.

   He is talking of multiple set backs that culminate in a free fall. The first hit was
   911

62. Derek Hale Dec 17th 2011




   911 was the hand of God.

   The strike that will bring about the fall of Babylon.

   Our entire world id now Babylon and our world is to be brought to an end.

   Psa 34:21 Evil will slay the wicked; the foes of the righteous will be condemned.
63. Katy Dec 17th 2011




   Anyone have any valid, doable honest ways to get out of debt? I have no clue-
   please someone share the word of the Lord on this topic for me. We have around
   40,000 worth of debt, mostly school and taxes and only one credit card. Should
   we file bankruptcy?

64. Katy Dec 17th 2011




   Seriously. I have several small children that I keep at home and this whole thing
   really scares me. I know the Lord has not given me this spirit of fear, but what am
   I supposed to do? What if we can’t get out of debt? Do they just take my children
   and torture me or put me in a concentration camp? Could really use some wisdom
   right now. How do I trust the Lord in this situation?

65. John B Dec 17th 2011




   Very seriously, Katy, lay this all before the Lord Jesus and ask His guidance. His
   mercy and His deliverance.
   Do not ever get into debt.
   Do not.
   Now that you are there you will probably find there are agencies that can help you
   deal with your debt. I know there are in England.
   But the first and ongoing move is to lay it all before the Lord Jesus and to seek
   His wisdom.
   Get involved in a sound and solid church that teaches salvation from sin through
   the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus.

66. Andrew Dec 17th 2011




   Regarding debt:
   I am not opposed to mortgages – as long as the payments are less or similar
   amounts to what you would be paying in rent anyhow. (-Better to own in that
   case).
   Credit card debt is the worst because it has very high interest. Often – if you have
   loans with high interest – you can find ways to swap them for “low interest”. Go
   to a budget advisor for help.

   Personally – we never borrow money for cars or furniture. We buy them off Ebay
   cheap and stay out of debt.

   The stuff about “concentration camps” and ‘children being taken’ is mostly way-
   overblown and just fear-mongering. Don’t go to websites that talk that way. We
   will get through this. Trust in the Lord.

   Bless you all!

   Andrew Strom

67. Derek Hale Dec 17th 2011




   Dear Katy,

   On a practical level you are at the mercy of those who hold your debt.To be in
   debt to the world is to be a slave to the world.

   You must acknowledge this and face your situation head on.Contact those you are
   indebted to and state your position clearly.They want their money,bankruptcy is
   not the best option for them.Appeal to this and try to work out a solution that
   provides them some return and in a manner that you can cope with.

   Avoid expensive advice,there must be agencies near to you,voluntary agencies
   that can advise on your best approach.
   Be aware that these agencies are snowed under with this type of call on them.

   Most importantly do not put your head in the sand and ignore the problem. It will
   not go away and you must take action now.

68. Meredith Dec 17th 2011




   Andrew…

   Could you explain a little more about “Double dipping” and what that looks like
   in the economy and how it looks in the life of believers? Or point me in the
   direction to help me understand it? A lot of this stuff goes so far over my head.
   My husband and I are out of debt but invest and he’s pretty excited now and
   thinks the economy is taking a turn for the better. A lot in the media would say
   that. I want to be more aware of the global crisis and how it relates to what God is
   doing in the world today..but..not to sound ignorant or incredibly immature
   spiritually…I don’t get a lot of it…but I want to be prepared.
   Thank you!!!!!!

69. Robert McDaniel Dec 17th 2011




   Katy – my wife and I are facing a similar situation. We placed it before the Lord
   and He has assured us not to be fearful or worry about what is going to happen.
   Each day we ask for provision for today and for an increase in faith and trust. He
   is faithful. Every need we have has been met. Our monthly income seems to last
   longer. I am 72 and my wife is 71. The Lord has provided us both with jobs and
   good health. Every day we learn more and more about how we should live. We
   are generous with what we are given – not consuming everything we receive on
   ourselves..

   We have also surrendered ownership of everything we have been given, our stuff,
   our money and ourselves, to the Lord.

   You can have faith and trust the Lord. He is faithful in every way.

70. Meredith Dec 17th 2011




   nevermind! I went back and looked at the charts more carefully and now I get it.
   Sorry…;0/

71. Isaiah58 Dec 17th 2011




   Thanks for your insights and encouraging words, Andrew. We are an Aussie
   family of 7 who minister in the far east of Russia & Estonia. We see people daily
   living out of trash bins. On my heart is a strong call to repentance before our
   Lord. I have spent a lot of time on my knees recently. To survive whatever comes
   in the future we all need to “do justly to love mercy and to walk humbly with our
   Lord”.
   Humility is the key in this season, because Pride is what has got us into this
   situation.

72. Michelle Dec 17th 2011




   Katy said: Anyone have any valid, doable honest ways to get out of debt? I have
   no clue- please someone share the word of the Lord on this topic for me. We have
   around 40,000 worth of debt, mostly school and taxes and only one credit card.
   Should we file bankruptcy?

   Here are some thoughts.

   1. What could you do with your children to generate some cash to pay off the
   credit card.

   Shovel snow for neighbors.

   Run errands for some lady that works out of house. And offer to clean the house
   while your at it!

   Pick up a newspaper route.

   Since you are home, pick up a couple babysitting jobs

   Offer to clean the local churches.

   Every dime goes to pay off the card. When that is paid off, then the money goes
   to pay off the other debt.

   2. What can you sell. What can you cut back on. Make sacrifices. That $40 a
   month cell phone bill doesn’t seem like much, but times it by 3 or 4 other non
   essentials and it does add up.

   3. Say no to purchases. Don’t use the credit card. Go cash only. Make a budget for
   everything. If you only plan to spend $100 at the store, you only take $100 to the
   store along with the calculator. The dollar store for Christmas gifts are not the end
   of the world.

   4. Explain to your kids that they are very important in helping with getting the
   family out of the crisis. Even a 2 year old will give up toys for a yard sale if they
   feel they are giving to help the family.

73. Andrew Dec 17th 2011
   BTW – It is definitely NOT worth it to declare bankruptcy just over a $40,000
   debt.

   If you can somehow swap that $40,000 into a low-interest loan – it should be very
   manageable.

   One big thing – If you have a loan on your car, go back to the dealer or see if you
   can sell it – but only if it largely gets rid of the debt on it. Buy a cheap used car
   off Ebay instead.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

74. Derek Hale Dec 17th 2011




   Investments are for future security.

   Our future security is in the hands of God.

   Personal self investment is always at the expense of others needs today.

75. Bob Dec 17th 2011




   Katy, As far as most of your debt being taxes, there are former IRS agents who
   now work with people who owe the IRS a lot of money, to get their debt reduced
   by quite a bit. God knows how debt can enslave, but at the same time He is
   against us not paying what we owe if we can at all do it. Every person and every
   situation is different. I believe that God looks at our heart and our situation and
   gives us an answer according to what is best for us.
   He did make a way for debt cancellation in the Old Testament in the book of
   Leviticus, chapter 25. God gave the Israelites the Year of Jubilee, which occurred
   every 50 years. The Year of Jubilee is when those who are enslaved due to debt
   are set free, and all lands are returned to their original owners. The closest thing
   we have to that today is declaring bankruptcy. It’s not a nice sounding word, and
   to the ears of many people it smacks of irresponsibility and/or copping out on a
   debt, AKA not paying what you owe. But declaring bankruptcy doesn’t always
   mean that. There are different types of bankruptcy filings where you can declare
   bankruptcy that is designed to help people who intend to still pay off their debt.
   And as to what people think of someone declaring bankruptcy, the only thing you
   or I need to be concerned with is, is it God’s answer? What does HE think?
   When I am earnestly and sincerely seeking God’s answer for something, and I
   haven’t heard a clear answer, I have learned that I can go to my pastor (I am an
   assistant to a pastor/prophet) and I say to him “I need a word from you as a
   prophet”, and the Lord gives him an answer for me. I don’t take advantage of him
   and ask him for an answer on anything unless I am convinced that my heart is
   right in asking. And I always do what the Lord says to do. I wouldn’t ask if I
   wasn’t going to do what God said to do. It’s perfectly alright to do this to a
   prophet. That is part of what they are called to do.
   If you don’t know a prophet or someone who can give you a word from the Lord,
   then I would put it before Him in a very “matter of fact” kind of way, that you
   want HIS answer, and WILL follow it, no matter what it is, that you just want HIS
   answer. When you come to the Lord and are letting Him know that the reason you
   want His answer is because you are going to follow it, and you have your mind
   MADE UP, He will answer. I have rarely seen or heard the Lord give an answer
   to someone who wants to know so that they can decide after hearing it if they will
   follow the Lord’s direction or not. You have to have your mind made up that
   you’re going to trust Him.
   Another thing is, don’t worry. Worry is sin. I know that because I asked my pastor
   to pray for my knotted-up back about 2 weeks ago. The anointing of the Lord
   came strongly while he prayed for me, and the Lord told me, through him, that the
   reason my back was so knotted up was from worrying about money, and that
   worry is a sin. So even though things aren’t fiscally perfect here, I have
   understood that the Lord doesn’t want me to carry it, and to just let all of the
   worry go. So I changed my perspective and said to myself that if it all “goes to
   pot” that it all belongs to the Lord anyway, it’s His to “go to pot”, so I’ll just do
   my best and stop carrying it all.
   If you can find a farmer’s market near you, if it’s like the one near me, you can
   get a lot of things for 50-65% less there. I also buy in bulk at a restaurant supply
   store.
   Here is something I just found when googling “discount grocery”:
   Discount groceries may be found when the meat department is over-stocked. Meat
   has a “sell by” date, and should be good for five days beyond that date. However,
   when the “sell by” date arrives, the meat must be sold. And most often, it is sold
   at a discount. If you find meat that has the “sell by” date for today, and it has not
   yet been discounted, ask your butcher if he intends to mark it down. In most
   cases, they will discount the meat when you show them a “sell by” date for today.
   For future reference, you may also ask the butcher about what time of day he
   usually discounts all of the meat.
   .

76. Sheeja John Dec 17th 2011
   Praise you FATHER! Help us to love one another with a brotherly love and to
   carry one another’s burden, holding them up before You. Thank You Lord for all
   that you are doing in our midst. Be Glorified!

77. Derek Hale Dec 17th 2011




   Katy,

   I don’t know how dire your situation is and would not ask you to share it on the
   forum.I am not a financial adviser yet have not lived for 60 years without debt and
   the problems debt brings.

78. Michelle Dec 17th 2011




   Katy,

   There is something that must be considered by everyone that you brought up. No
   matter if some think it is mostly overblown.

   There is coming dark times upon the US, and world in general. We are going to
   see more natural disasters, war, and along with that war we are going to see
   enslavement of some, and death of others.

   Now, we can live in fear of these things. Or, we can decide to trust the Lord with
   all we have. That means we give our children, spouses, and all possessions over to
   Him. That certainly does not mean that all will then go rosey and we’ll have blue
   skies from there on out. What it does mean is that all faith is placed in Him that
   no matter what happens, He is still on the throne and that He has given the
   promise of everlasting life through Jesus our Saviour.

   It also means that this world is not our home. He said he has a plan for us that is
   good. That plan stretches out through eternity.

   Heard a sermon recently where the pastor said God asked him how many fathers
   his daughter had. The pastor answered two. The Lord then asked who loved that
   daughter more. The pastor said You do Lord. That pastor’s daughter died of
   cancer, but the Lord has a purpose and meaning to every single thing that comes
   into our life, and that happens to our kids. When we give Him everything we
   have, and everything we are to Him, then a peace comes.

   The Bible is wrought with people walking through unimaginable hardships. But
   the beauty of being able to see the stories at the end, is that the hand of God is
   clearly shown. Each Christian is in the process of writing their own story with
   their walk with God. The people in the Bible who drew the closest to God are the
   ones who walked through the hardest trials, endured the worst pain, and stood
   against the darkest evil.

   The only way to stand is on bended knees. Set time aside each day to tell the Lord
   that everything you have, you surrender to Him. That no matter what happens in
   the future, the trust is placed in Him. Even if that means trusting Him if one or
   several of our family members and friends gets killed by the hands of violent
   men. No matter if that means a walk into death of our own bodies.

   As Job said: “Even though He slay me, still I will trust Him”, and “The Lord
   gives and He takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord.”

79. ab Dec 18th 2011




   Regarding debt…… The advice to stay out of debt or get out of debt is difficult to
   some. You have a monthly light bill, gas bill, taxes, food costs, no matter what.
   Our computer/tv/telephone is in a package that is sixty dollars a month, so that
   could be cut down a bit, but even if we cut everything except telephone it is still
   over thirty. Water is thirty-five a month here with garbage/sewage included.
   And medical bills are staggering. My husband is on six prescriptions a month plus
   oxygen and a breathing machine. I take four hypertension scripts. A call to the
   doctor’s office for hubby is monthly at over $120. The last time he was in the
   hospital it was over $15000, and he has hospital visits a few times a year. It is
   very difficult to be in a situation that you cannot really cut debt. It’s not like
   wasted money thrown away on shopping for channel #5, you know? It’s more life
   and death and basic survival. Right now my husband has cellulitis and has been
   on antibiotics for it for months with a really severe leg infection that just doesn’t
   want to heal plus a tumor attacking his body. You can’t just cut debt in that
   situation.
   And I know the world if full of people just like us. We do have food which
   starving children in subsahara Africa do not have. And I thank God for that. But
   what is basic, “rubber hits the road”, Word of the Lord for everyday people in this
   world just trying to live and please God?

80. neverdigin Dec 18th 2011
Andrew,

Appreciate the chart work.

Here is a chart and an article (link) that is also enlightening.

TED spread:

http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/!TEDSP:IND

Contagion Catastrophe

http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/the-eurozone-s-contagion-catastrophe-
20111201

I question a comment in your conclusion:

“…God [who] is in control. ”

If God is “in control” then can anything be done without his willingness? I
propose that man’s proper understanding of ALL of God’s word tells us that he is
not “in control” of everything. You or your readership may comfort your minds
by accepting this traditional belief that he is but it is not based upon the scriptures.

If God is “in control” then I never had “free will” to choose Jesus as my savior….

Also consider the following:

The New Testament makes it crystal clear that not everything that happens is
God’s will. For example, Jesus instructed his disciples to pray that God’s will
would be done on earth (Matt. 6:10). If everything that happens is God’s will,
such prayer is superfluous. In Romans 1:10, Paul said he prayed for “a prosperous
journey in the will of God” to see the believers there. Another meaningless
prayer? No. The will of God for an individual, whether revealed in the written
Word of God or by direct revelation, generally comes to pass only when that
person understands it and, by his own, acts accordingly.
Rather than sit passively by waiting for God’s will to happen, we must make a
diligent effort to learn God’s Word and then aggressively obey it. God’s will, for
example, is that people do not steal, but rather that they work to earn what they
need (Eph. 4:28). Very simple. We just do what He says. But are some people
stealing? Yes. If everything that happens were God’s will, then nothing would be
sin or disobedience. What a travesty of logic!
Going a step further then, if it is so easy for us humans to disobey God, what
   about the Devil and his spirit army? Can humans sin by choice while evil spirits
   cannot? Obviously spirit beings can sin, since sin was the reason the Devil and his
   hosts were thrown out of God’s presence to begin with. Via Adam’s sin, the Devil
   was legally given authority over the earth. The Devil did not and does not obey
   God. The Devil has been sinning for a long time (1 John 3:8). The Devil is a
   murderer (John 8:44), a liar (John 8:44), and a thief (John 10:10).

81. Derek Hale Dec 18th 2011




   God,our heavenly Father is SOVEREIGN.However he does NOT control the
   activities of man.This world is under the authority of our adversary.Authority
   given to him by our Father in heaven.

   Scripture is clear on this.those who really know God’s word know that although
   the world and everything in it is created by God he has handed over the control of
   it to Satan for a time.This is all part of God’s plan for mankind,his plan for his
   creation.

   Our Lord Jesus Christ has no authority over the earth until his return.His authority
   is extends no further than heaven for now.To be under his protection we must be
   under heavenly authority which means we must enter the kingdom of heaven in
   this life.We must find the kingdom of God within us.

   We may be saved,we may have the God given hope of everlasting life but whilst
   on this earth we are under the authority of Satan until our lord returns.

   He will do with us according to his will and to be safe from harm we must have
   the WHOLE armour of God.

   Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against
   the wiles of the devil.

   Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God , that ye may be able
   to withstand in the evil day, and having done all , to stand .

82. Andrew Dec 18th 2011




   The “God is in control” comment was specifically talking about Christians who
   trust Him through this crisis. When situations get “out of control”, we have a God
   that we can trust to get us through.
   I also believe that God is using this crisis to bring a “purging” to the West that is
   sorely needed.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

83. Traveler Dec 18th 2011




   Derek wrote;

   Our Lord Jesus Christ has no authority over the earth until his return.His authority
   is extends no further than heaven for now.To be under his protection we must be
   under heavenly authority which means we must enter the kingdom of heaven in
   this life.We must find the kingdom of God within us.

   We may be saved,we may have the God given hope of everlasting life but whilst
   on this earth we are under the authority of Satan until our lord returns.

   This is not actually correct. You forgot to make a distinction between the
   redeemed and those that are still lost in their sins.


   Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,
   and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt
   you.

   The bride of Christ is supposed to be an occupying force in this earth until he
   returns. Hence we are not taken out this earth but left here to spread the gospel of
   salvation and make disciples of all nations.


   Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds,
   and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

   We have authority over Satan because we are in Christ and operate in his name.
   Christs authority is not limited to heaven but extends to the lowest depths of hell
   as well. But only those that are in Christ are able to operate in his name under the
   covering of his blood.

   Those that are still in their sins fall under Satans control by default simply
   because they have not been redeemed. But to say Jesus has no authority over this
   earth at this time is not a correct understanding.
84. Derek Hale Dec 18th 2011




   Thank you traveller,you are so right yet I was writing of Man,mankind in the
   general sense.Our Lord only has authority through those who yield to the
   Father,those who accept his authority.

   His authority extends to those who yield themselves to it only.
   Free will my friend.we must choose to be obedient.

85. Tim (onesimus) Dec 19th 2011




   Andrew said:
   “In January I would like to put this question to our whole email list – whether or
   not I should apologize for this “double dip” prediction.

   I am certainly willing to do so if people think it is untrue.
   I would rather apologize if it is not right. Seriously.
   Would like to hear what people think about this.

   -Andrew”

   Either the events predicted will occur AS predicted or they won’t.
   And the evidence will not be a matter of graph interpretation or through
   presenting favourable interpretations from chosen economic “experts”. The
   evidence should be clearly experienced on the scale predicted and not merely a
   philosophical outcome.

   If clear fulfilment is not forthcoming, the need for apology and repentance should
   not come down to a matter of popular public opinion.

86. Derek Hale Dec 19th 2011




   Tim,

   You hAve no need to apologise to me for ANYTHING.

   That’s my understanding for what it’s worth.
87. Andrew Dec 19th 2011




   Tim – I only wish it was that clearcut, my friend.

   My understanding is that the “second dip” IS underway before the end of 2011.
   That is what I predicted. And that is what the charts show.

   It seems to me that you have not actually READ my “14 Predictions” (above)
   very carefully. Can you take the time to read them again and tell me what they say
   I predicted to happen before the end of this year?

   Bless you!

   Andrew

88. eaglelife Dec 19th 2011




   With all due respect Andrew, it seems to me that if you listened to the right
   “alternative ” financial media or people, the things that you prophesied have been
   put out there for anyone who would listen. I have a hard time receiving it as
   prophecy.

   If none of this information was available in any capacity and it was prophesied,
   then, that would be a different story.

   Also, I guess I tend to agree with Tim. I don’t think we are seeing it on the scale
   that you have predicted. Maybe in California. I believe their unemployment is at
   about 30 %.

   And as Meredith said about food stamp story, I also have seen abuses. What’s the
   real story. I do agree with you that we are in dire straits.

   But then, the NEW WORLD ORDER (NWO), who have engineered all this are
   getting what they have been going after…. a one world government and a one
   world bank and currency, and a one world church and a cashless society that
   THEY CONTROL.

   I liked what Michelle said in her last post. Some very dark times are coming on
   this earth. Let it all go. Turn your eyes upon the Lord Jesus and look full into His
   face and the things of this earth shall grow strangely dim in the light of His glory
   and grace.

   Everything has to go on the altar or as Varienne posted before the forum went
   down….how shall we stand before our interrogator.

   They can take all but they can’t take our mind if we so live out of the cross of our
   Lord Jesus Christ and are marked by His blood that we can do as Stephen did as
   he was being martyred.

89. Andrew Dec 19th 2011




   In “HINDSIGHT” we look back and these predictions seem “obvious”.

   At the time they were made, they were extremely risky things to publish –
   because hardly anyone thought these things would happen – or get so bad.

   But I am used to getting bashed – and I guess I am about to get a “bashing” over
   all this too.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

90. Andrew Dec 19th 2011




   Having said that, I am very very very very
   willing to apologize. (Have done so before. No doubt I will do so again).

   Bless you!

   Andrew

91. Gary Dec 19th 2011




   Andrew, I appreciate the words you gave years ago, and they were a definite
   “heads up” about what was about to come that I was not hearing from anyone else
   in such detail.
   I think they have proved accurate so far, as I have said before, the only thing that
   hasn’t been notably slowed is the prosperity church heresy and clear judgement
   on: and the slowing of that movement.

   I don’t think of it in terms of being “bashed” but of faithfully testing and
   measuring prophetic words. I see no problem with the words you have faithfully
   delivered, although I believe God has delayed judgement for a longer season than
   I would have anticipated after the twin towers fell. I believe this judgement is
   right at the door, and we have entered into a time that is both testing and glorious.

92. Traveler Dec 19th 2011




   But I am used to getting bashed – and I guess I am about to get a “bashing” over
   all this too.

   Come on Andrew, this is just people knit-picking. Trust me, when the real
   bashing starts it will be in a whole other category.

93. A different BOB Dec 19th 2011




   Here in AU I have seen no evidence of a down turn depression, although things
   are unstable. I see lots of people abusing St Vinnies and Life line Ect, like the
   foodstamps are abused in America. I have seen 2011 has been a horrible year for
   most of the world, but not because of “gods judgements” as “prophets”would say,
   I live in an area where floods happen, ChristChurch, on a fault line ECT.

   I don’t believe I am “bashing” Andrew, but I can see why Andrew would say I
   am, ( none of us like to be wonge, including me) So I am sorry Andrew but for me
   PERSONALLY I dont see what was prophesied. But I am willing to wait another
   month to be proven wronge.

94. Traveler Dec 19th 2011




   Well the year is not over yet and the Australian banks have been ordered to stress
   test for when the Euro collapses .
   Canada has made huge loans to Europe to bolster their banks and it has become
   obvious that those loans will never be paid back so we are going to be in trouble
   shortly after they fall.

   A lot of the third world gets by on aid that is no longer going to be there so they
   are on the outs

   I would say the collapse has started and events are no longer responding to bail
   out anymore. I would say the failure of biblical proportions that people are
   looking for is under way but not fully grasped yet.

95. Gary Gorham Dec 20th 2011




   God through Jerimiah said that Babylon is suddenly fallen, take balm for her pain
   that she may be healed. We would have healed Babylon but she is not healed,
   forsake her for her judgement has reached into heaven. Flee from her and save
   yourselves. The problem is not God’s, its ours for wanting to put dates on such
   events rather that just heeding the warning.

96. Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   Bob – Australia (so far) is the LEAST “Depression”-like country in the world due
   to Chinese $Billions from your mining and due to your massive bubble in
   Housing – which has just started popping recently.

   The USA, Japan and Europe are “ground zero” for this Downturn so far.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

97. Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   Republished by YAHOO NEWS – 50 Shocking Facts on the US Economy right
   now-
1. A staggering 48 percent of all Americans are either considered to be “low
income” or are living in poverty.

2. Approximately 57 percent of all children in the United States are living in
homes that are either considered to be “low income” or impoverished.

3. If the number of Americans that “wanted jobs” was the same today as it was
back in 2007, the “official” unemployment rate put out by the U.S. government
would be up to 11 percent.

4. The average amount of time that a worker stays unemployed in the United
States is now over 40 weeks.

5. One recent survey found that 77 percent of all U.S. small businesses do not
plan to hire any more workers.

6. There are fewer payroll jobs in the United States today than there were back in
2000 even though we have added 30 million extra people to the population since
then.

7. Since December 2007, median household income in the United States has
declined by a total of 6.8 percent once you account for inflation.

8. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 16.6 million Americans were self-
employed back in December 2006. Today, that number has shrunk to 14.5
million.

9. A Gallup poll from earlier this year found that approximately one out of every
five Americans that do have a job consider themselves to be underemployed.

10. According to author Paul Osterman, about 20 percent of all U.S. adults are
currently working jobs that pay poverty-level wages.

11. Back in 1980, less than 30 percent of all jobs in the United States were low
income jobs. Today, more than 40 percent of all jobs in the United States are low
income jobs.

12. Back in 1969, 95 percent of all men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job.
In July, only 81.2 percent of men in that age group had a job.

13. One recent survey found that one out of every three Americans would not be
able to make a mortgage or rent payment next month if they suddenly lost their
current job.

14. The Federal Reserve recently announced that the total net worth of U.S.
households declined by 4.1 percent in the 3rd quarter of 2011 alone.
15. According to a recent study conducted by the BlackRock Investment Institute,
the ratio of household debt to personal income in the United States is now 154
percent.

16. As the economy has slowed down, so has the number of marriages. According
to a Pew Research Center analysis, only 51 percent of all Americans that are at
least 18 years old are currently married. Back in 1960, 72 percent of all U.S.
adults were married.

17. The U.S. Postal Service has lost more than 5 billion dollars over the past year.

18. In Stockton, California home prices have declined 64 percent from where they
were at when the housing market peaked.

19. Nevada has had the highest foreclosure rate in the nation for 59 months in a
row.

20. If you can believe it, the median price of a home in Detroit is now just $6000.

21. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, 18 percent of all homes in the state of
Florida are sitting vacant. That figure is 63 percent larger than it was just ten years
ago.

22. New home construction in the United States is on pace to set a brand new all-
time record low in 2011.

23. 19 percent of all American men between the ages of 25 and 34 are now living
with their parents.

24. Electricity bills in the United States have risen faster than the overall rate of
inflation for five years in a row.

25. According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, health care costs accounted
for just 9.5 percent of all personal consumption back in 1980. Today they account
for approximately 16.3 percent.

26. One study found that approximately 41 percent of all working age Americans
either have medical bill problems or are currently paying off medical debt.

27. If you can believe it, one out of every seven Americans has at least 10 credit
cards.

28. The United States spends about 4 dollars on goods and services from China
for every one dollar that China spends on goods and services from the United
States.
29. It is being projected that the U.S. trade deficit for 2011 will be 558.2 billion
dollars.

30. The retirement crisis in the United States just continues to get worse.
According to the Employee Benefit Research Institute, 46 percent of all American
workers have less than $10,000 saved for retirement, and 29 percent of all
American workers have less than $1,000 saved for retirement.

31. Today, one out of every six elderly Americans lives below the federal poverty
line.

32. According to a study that was just released, CEO pay at America’s biggest
companies rose by 36.5 percent in just one recent 12 month period.

33. Today, the “too big to fail” banks are larger than ever. The total assets of the
six largest U.S. banks increased by 39 percent between September 30, 2006 and
September 30, 2011.

34. The six heirs of Wal-Mart founder Sam Walton have a net worth that is
roughly equal to the bottom 30 percent of all Americans combined.

35. According to an analysis of Census Bureau data done by the Pew Research
Center, the median net worth for households led by someone 65 years of age or
older is 47 times greater than the median net worth for households led by
someone under the age of 35.

36. If you can believe it, 37 percent of all U.S. households that are led by
someone under the age of 35 have a net worth of zero or less than zero.

37. A higher percentage of Americans is living in extreme poverty (6.7 percent)
than has ever been measured before.

38. Child homelessness in the United States is now 33 percent higher than it was
back in 2007.

39. Since 2007, the number of children living in poverty in the state of California
has increased by 30 percent.

40. Sadly, child poverty is absolutely exploding all over America. According to
the National Center for Children in Poverty, 36.4 percent of all children that live
in Philadelphia are living in poverty, 40.1 percent of all children that live in
Atlanta are living in poverty, 52.6 percent of all children that live in Cleveland are
living in poverty and 53.6 percent of all children that live in Detroit are living in
poverty.
   41. Today, one out of every seven Americans is on food stamps and one out of
   every four American children is on food stamps.

   42. In 1980, government transfer payments accounted for just 11.7 percent of all
   income. Today, government transfer payments account for more than 18 percent
   of all income.

   43. A staggering 48.5 percent of all Americans live in a household that receives
   some form of government benefits. Back in 1983, that number was below 30
   percent.

   44. Right now, spending by the federal government accounts for about 24 percent
   of GDP. Back in 2001, it accounted for just 18 percent.

   45. For fiscal year 2011, the U.S. federal government had a budget deficit of
   nearly 1.3 trillion dollars. That was the third year in a row that our budget deficit
   has topped one trillion dollars.

   46. If Bill Gates gave every single penny of his fortune to the U.S. government, it
   would only cover the U.S. budget deficit for about 15 days.

   47. Amazingly, the U.S. government has now accumulated a total debt of 15
   trillion dollars. When Barack Obama first took office the national debt was just
   10.6 trillion dollars.

   48. If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S.
   national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years
   to pay off the national debt.

   49. The U.S. national debt has been increasing by an average of more than 4
   billion dollars per day since the beginning of the Obama administration.

   50. During the Obama administration, the U.S. government has accumulated more
   debt than it did from the time that George Washington took office to the time that
   Bill Clinton took office.

   - http://news.yahoo.com/50-facts-u-economy-shock-205804459.html

98. A Different BOB Dec 20th 2011




   AHHHHH The mining is saving us, now that makes a lot of sence, They are
   mining so many places here in Australia that i sometimes wonder if we will soon
   have to swim to New Zealand to be on land.
   Also I would like to wish you all a Merry Christmas, Hope you all have a
   wonderful time with family and loved ones, Come back nice and refreshed, and
   Ready for the year ahead.

99. Tim (onesimus) Dec 20th 2011




   Friar Alex said:
   I think that God’s Judgement will be less ambiguous than this. When HE judges a
   country or civilisation, you will know!!!
   —–
   That is very right Friar Alex.
   There was no need to refer to town planners, civil engineers or any other expert to
   confirm God’s judgement on Sodom and Gomorrah.

100.      Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   Double Dip Depressions are not quite the same as fireballs raining from the sky.

   One is “instant” judgment – the other is “long-term” grinding and purging of a
   nation or nations.

   There is more than one kind of judgment.

   Tim – did you actually READ my Predictions closely? What precisely did I
   predict would be happening by the end of 2011?

   -Andrew

101.      Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   TIM – can you read these carefully please? -What precisely did I predict would be
   happening by the end of 2011?-

   “THE 14 PREDICTIONS” – Andrew Strom

   Below is a timeline of the specific warnings that we published from 2001 to
   2010…
SEPT 11, 2001: “The HORNS of American financial power have fallen, have
fallen…” [-About the Twin Towers].

JUNE 2003: “Revival is going to come in the midst of judgments the like of
which you’ve never seen, and God is going to touch your economy…” (-
’Thundering in Nashville’).

14 DEC 2006: “Let me make some predictions at this point, so I can be clear
about what this country [USA] is facing:
(1) Firstly, I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid Judgment…
(2) Expect a great economic crash – and expect it SOON.

MARCH 14, 2007: “Eight months ago we began to publish warnings about the
bursting of this Housing bubble, and the likely impact it would have… saying that
in many ways it would be God’s MERCY – to shock us out of our complacency
and apathy – and to cause us
to desperately seek His face.”

NOV 8, 2007: “I continue to stand by my statement of many months ago that
within 3 years this nation will be in a terrible financial depression – possibly the
worst that it has ever seen. Right now, things are right on track to see this
fulfilled.”

NOV 2007, Wisconsin USA: “This is the last good Christmas America will have
for years…. -Here’s my scenario. You can test me. You can remember what I’m
saying right now…. See if it plays out how I say. In six months time I expect
Recession in the United States. In 12 months time I expect the beginning of a
Depression.” (-AUDIO – ‘Survive the Coming Depression – Nov 07′ on
Sermonindex.net).

10 MONTHS LATER – Sept/Oct 2008 – The two largest Mortgage giants in the
world (Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac) fail, the largest Insurance Company and the
largest thrift bank in the USA both collapse, Lehman Brothers goes bankrupt
(almost taking the entire financial system with it), Money Markets reel, the
Investment banking industry crumbles, and the stock market suffers its
worst-ever one-day loss, plunging 777 points in a single day.

24 SEPT 2008: “The DEPRESSION HAS BEGUN”.

BACK-TRACK – 31 JAN 2008: “My strong belief is that, particularly in
America, this crisis is going to be WORSE than the GREAT DEPRESSION. And
it is going to last for YEARS. Other developed nations, such as England, Ireland,
Spain, Canada, Germany and
even Australasia, are going to be very hard-hit also. China, India and much of
Asia will be pounded at first, but I believe will recover faster…. I believe that
Christians in America need to face the fact that they are about to live through one
   of the WORST 5 – 7 year periods that this country has ever seen by far. And they
   need to
   be preparing NOW.”

   OCT 2008: “I am convinced this ‘breaking’ is not merely financial in nature. It is
   also aimed at the church, the media and the culture…. We are about to see another
   ‘Great Reformation’.” (-From Andrew’s book, ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’,
   Oct 2008).

   OCT 2008: “When I was down in Mississippi after Hurricane Katrina there was
   one Spirit-filled Fellowship that was ‘thriving in the midst of the chaos. They had
   filled their sanctuary with food, clothes, and
   emergency supplies of all kinds – and they were ministering to hundreds… I
   cannot tell you how important this is, if we want to “thrive” – not just ‘survive’ –
   through this current crisis… So will you be a ‘light shining in the darkness’
   during this present crisis, my friends?” (-Book ‘SURVIVE THE DEPRESSION’,
   Oct 2008).

   20 DEC 2008: “The WORST of the slump is set to last for… 7 years.”

   10 APRIL 2009: “A ‘DOUBLE DIP’ DEPRESSION .. The phrase “A Double-
   Dip Depression” has been on my heart for many months, so it is no surprise to see
   a temporary respite. But we need to be aware that it is simply an illusion – so we
   don’t get lulled back to
   sleep and cease to prepare for what lies ahead.

   18 JUNE 2009: “We stated not long ago our belief that we are headed for a
   ‘Double-Dip’ Depression… I do believe there will be a further ‘wave’
   downwards, and we need to keep preparing – both physically and spiritually.”

   1 APRIL 2010: “If this ‘second wave down’ has not occurred by the end of 2011
   then I will need to issue a public apology to the Body of Christ.”
   ——————————

   Please read the above points carefully. If you think I need to apologize, then I am
   certainly willing to do so.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

102.      Derek Hale Dec 20th 2011
   What’s the difference.it’s all just the detail,the aftermath.

   God said long ago that Babylon would finally be brought to the ground and it was
   on 11th September 2011.

   Babylon is fallen,Babylon will be no more,not ever.We now experience the
   aftermath.

   God finally brought judgement on Babylon and it is no more.We can fight against
   it all we want but it is final.The greatest financial minds on earth cannot change
   God’s judgement.

103.       Tim (onesimus) Dec 20th 2011




   Andrew said:
   “Double Dip Depressions are not quite the same as fireballs raining from the
   sky…

   …Tim – did you actually READ my Predictions closely? What precisely did I
   predict would be happening by the end of 2011?”

   ——

   My reply:
   Andrew you predicted::
   10 APRIL 2009: “A ‘DOUBLE DIP’ DEPRESSION .. The phrase “A Double-
   Dip Depression” has been on my heart for many months, so it is no surprise to see
   a temporary respite. But we need to be aware that it is simply an illusion – so we
   don’t get lulled back to
   sleep and cease to prepare for what lies ahead.
   18 JUNE 2009: “We stated not long ago our belief that we are headed for a
   ‘Double-Dip’ Depression… I do believe there will be a further ‘wave’
   downwards, and we need to keep preparing – both physically and spiritually.”
   1 APRIL 2010: “If this ‘second wave down’ has not occurred by the end of 2011
   then I will need to issue a public apology to the Body of Christ.”

   The fact is Andrew; we’ve no more had a “double dip depression” than we’ve had
   fireballs raining from the sky.

   Firstly there is a vast difference between a depression and a recession.
   Secondly, under no recognised economic definition has there been either a
   “second wave” or “double dip” depression OR a recession that HAS occurred by
   the end of this year. This was pointed out to you on the forum not long ago:

   Here: http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/bbpress/topic/12/page/5#post-49126
   Quote: diemooieen
   “I wonder what a wave down means? Earlier it was talked about a double-dip
   depression. Perhaps a recession was meant as we haven’t had a first depression
   yet.

   Still it is now impossible to have a recession in 2011 – as a recession is two
   quarters of negative growth and the third quarter of 2011 was positive. Therefore
   you can’t have a recession in 2011. It might start in 2011 and then become a
   recession in 2012 but nobody would be able to say for sure until almost mid-2012.
   However at this stage projections are still for positive growth for the last quarter
   of 2011.”
   End quote.

104.      Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   The pundits at large call it the”Great Recession”.

   In Australia you call it the “Global Financial Crisis (GFC)” – even though
   Australia has had the “mildest” touch of it in the world. (Which is where you
   live,Tim).

   For America, UK, Europe, Japan – the major developed nations of the earth – it is
   clearly a DEPRESSION and is not over yet.

   That is the entire point of my “Predictions”. That it will be Long-lasting (years),
   that it will have two distinct “dips” into “worse” territory, that it will be a very
   bad crisis – not just another ‘Recession’ – but rather deserving the title of
   “Depression”.

   All the events in USA and Europe in the last 4 years confirm every bit of this, in
   my view. And will continue to do so – as the “second dip” is clearly well
   underway.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

105.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 20th 2011
   Derek you are right that the “greatest financial minds on earth cannot change
   God’s judgement” – no question about that.

   The issue is – did God foretell judgement for NOW – prior to the end of 2011? I
   have no doubt that the world’s financial systems will one day collapse and are
   even ripe for collapse – but seeing the signs in the world and seeing what
   scripture indicates is ahead is different to God giving a prophetic (and dated)
   revelation for the here and now.
   Anyone making prophetic claims that do not occur as predicted needs to accept
   accountability and for their own sake needs to confess their error and repent. Too
   few seem to be willing to do that.

106.      Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   I do repent. I have apologized publicly a number of times when I have spoken out
   of turn. I would do so again. I just need to see my “error”.

   When I look at the world situation, I clearly see the “second dip” occurring. It
   started earlier this year – and is getting steadily worse.

   When you look at the charts up above, what do you see, Tim?

   Bless you!

   Andrew

107.      Derek Hale Dec 20th 2011




   You two should stop this now.You are both in the wrong in this.Your behaviour
   to each other is not righteous.I ask you not to delete this post Andrew.I mean well
   and write in love.

   Repentance is personal between you and our Father.

   Apologies are not necessary in the body of Christ.To forgive is not understood.it
   starts with the letters FOR.We must forgive even before trespassed against.
   There is too much SELF in this debate.It’s like a competition of prize
   fighters.There are no prizes for winning this battle.

   Babylon is destroyed.This recession/depression is permanent and will get worse
   and worse despite the occasional days of relief.We are watching a beast die before
   us.

   You are disputing over the detail.Our task is to deal with it all in righteousness for
   the good of others.

108.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 20th 2011




   Derek, your comment is way out of line and is totally wrong.

   I thank God that we can all repent and confess our error and be forgiven and made
   clean. God takes His prophetic word VERY seriously. We should all be wary of
   saying “God has said” when God has not said.

   Thank God He has provided a way of forgiveness and restoration through Jesus.

109.      Derek Hale Dec 20th 2011




   You think you are so right in this Tim.A dangerous road to travel.Let you and I
   not battle.

   “Our battle is not against flesh and blood.”

110.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 20th 2011




   Andrew you asked:
   “When you look at the charts up above, what do you see, Tim?”

   I see information that shows there is no current recession (the grey shading
   indicates times of recession) and definitely no “depression” (which is worse than
   recession).
   The information in the graphs therefore does not support the idea of the “double
   dip” depression you predicted before the end of 2011.

111.      Michelle Dec 20th 2011




   One point. Andrew said “predictions”. He did not say that this was a direct word
   from the Lord.

   We all know that this is the start of the judgments on the West. If the dates are
   thrown out, and the actual facts are looked at, then anyone can see these are all on
   track.

   Tell the growing number of people out on the streets, and on welfare that this is
   not a recession heading to depression. Personal economies sometimes cloud the
   overall picture of what is actually happening in the world.

112.      Andrew Dec 20th 2011




   I think Derek is right in some ways. This is a fruitless conversation and should not
   continue.

   But Tim – surely you know that the “grey areas” in the graphs that denote
   ‘Recessions’ are put in LONG AFTER the Recession has begun?

   The NBER in the USA is not expected to rule on whether a Recession officially
   began in 2011 until well into 2012. I am happy to wait for that “official” ruling.

   Until then, I guess, you can continue to claim that “there is no double dip” and
   this is “not a depression”. All the facts tell me otherwise. But I am happy to leave
   the “official” verdict about 2011 to the NBER.

   We will see what they say.

   Bless you all!

   Andrew Strom

113.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 21st 2011
   There can no longer be a recession or depression this year but I don’t discount the
   possibility of a total and unprecedented crash of financial systems at any time.

   In such a case there would be absolutely no uncertainty about whether it had
   happened or not. Such an event would leave absolutely no ambiguity.

   But I suspect any judgement from God regarding the world economy will come
   when not expected, when conditions seem favourable. When things seem to have
   been turned around for the better and people are glorying in man’s wisdom.

   Sadly Andrew you choose to stand by your prediction. Confession and repentance
   would have gone a long way to getting your ministry back on track.

114.       Teshuva Dec 21st 2011




   What I see with his prediction is this.
   The financial and economic knees are bowing to God, and if I am allowed to be
   funny here, they are bowing with hopes that man follow suit.
   Recession indeed as man has placed distance between himself and God and so
   now there is distance between man and money.
   Depression indeed, as there are more people on anti-depressants than has been in
   its history.
   I think I read that the usage of these drugs were up 400 percent.
   But this is what I see.

115.       Andrew Dec 21st 2011




   Can I ask you a simple question please, Tim.

   If the NBER officially declares that another Recession began in 2011 (they won’t
   announce this until 2012 – there is a long delay in these announcements) – if they
   state this – then will you apologize to me?

   I have already stated that the evidence shows that the developed world is in a true
   “Depression” – that began with the collapse of 2008. Some call it the ‘Great
   Recession’ – others call it the ‘Global Financial Crisis’. I simply call it what it is –
   a true “Depression”. And in fact, on a global scale, it is growing worse – not
   better.

   I am convinced too that the developed world is already sinking into the “second
   dip” of this Depression.

   But if the NBER announces that no renewed Recession began before the end of
   2011, I am willing to apologize. In fact – I am very willing to do so.

   But Tim – are you willing to apologize to me? If the NBER says that a renewed
   Recession actually DID begin in 2011?

   I look forward to your reply.

   God bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

116.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 21st 2011




   Andrew, if you had predicted the start of a recession before the end of 2011 and it
   was recognised that a recession had started before the end of this year then I
   would willingly apologise.

   HOWEVER you predicted that a “double dip DEPRESSION” would have
   occurred by the end of 2011.

   You did not predict that a recession would start by the end of 2011.

   There is a huge difference between a recession and a depression.

117.      Andrew Dec 21st 2011




   Tim – we are already in the “Depression”. We have been in it for the last 3 years.
   (Not Australia – but USA, UK, Europe, Japan – the largest markets of the
   developed world). That is why the media calls it the “Global Financial Crisis” and
   the ‘Great Recession’. It never ended. Go ask the Americans. Go ask the
   Europeans.

   First dip occurred from 2008-2009.
   Then a pseudo-”Recovery” brought about by Governments borrowing $ Trillions
   and pumping them into the economy. This could never last – and leads to-

   The Second dip occurring 2011 – ????

   You can sit in Australia and pretend that none of this is happening – but events
   worldwide clearly show that it is.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

118.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 21st 2011




   Andrew – in addtion to my previous comment, I’ll add that your prediction was
   wider than merely predicting “recession” starting before the end of 2011. I’ve
   already noted that the term in your prediction was in fact “depression” but your
   prediction went further, forecasting that it would be the start of a situation worse
   than the Great Depression.

   If such a situation – as dire as you predict does occur as a direct progression from
   the current (end of 2011) financial situation I will certainly apologise both
   personally and publicly (here, on my blog and on every forum I frequent).

   Your prediction included:
   quote
   BACK-TRACK – 31 JAN 2008: “My strong belief is that, particularly in
   America, this crisis is going to be WORSE than the GREAT DEPRESSION. And
   it is going to last for YEARS. Other developed nations, such as England, Ireland,
   Spain, Canada, Germany and
   even Australasia, are going to be very hard-hit also. China, India and much of
   Asia will be pounded at first, but I believe will recover faster…. I believe that
   Christians in America need to face the fact that they are about to live through one
   of the WORST 5 – 7 year periods that this country has ever seen by far. And they
   need to
   be preparing NOW.”end quote.

   A mere announcement from NBER or any other finance commentators that
   recession started this year would not be proof that your prediction was right – if
   you are right the predicted “recession” will lead to a situation worse than the
   Great Depression and it will be widely experienced and not just spoken about
   among financial commentators.
119.      Andrew Dec 21st 2011




   Absolutely correct, Tim.

   This “second dip” will either lead to a much worse economic situation – or I am
   flat-out wrong.

   Simple as that.

   All I am claiming is that the “second dip” has BEGUN before the end of 2011. I
   expect things to get much worse.

   Remember – Depressions come in “phases” – just like the Great Depression.

   1929 was the first “wave” down.
   1931 – a European banking crisis brought the next “wave” downwards.
   1937 – Just when things were “recovering”, interest rates were raised too quickly
   and the economy crashed again.

   -The story of the Great Depression.

   I believe we are just now entering “Phase 2″.

   Bless you!

   Andrew Strom.

120.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 21st 2011




   Andrew, did you delete my comment in reply to this:

   “Tim – we are already in the “Depression”. We have been in it for the last 3
   years”

   In which I pointed out that even the financial commentators you use as support do
   not recognise that there is currently a depression?

   I am hoping that I am mistaken in recalling that I made that comment.

121.      Andrew Dec 21st 2011
   I wanted to directly reply to your other comment, my friend.

   And yes – a number of economists and commentators DO believe this ongoing
   crisis is better called a “Depression” rather than a mere ‘Recession’.

   Some call it the “Great Repression” – ‘Great Contraction’, GFC, “Great
   Recession”. Others flat out call it a ‘Second Depression’. Krugman (-Nobel
   economist) has used this expression. Niall Ferguson and many others have used
   the term ‘Depression’. As things grow worse, I expect many more to call it this.

   It began with the crash of Sept/ Oct 2008 and is still going.

   We have “dips” or ‘Recessions’ within this wider “Depression”.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

122.      Derek Hale Dec 21st 2011




   expectations of apology come from ego my friends.Ego is self.

   We are commanded to deny self.

   Disobedience can lead to rebellion and God has short patience with
   rebellion.Check Holy Scripture if you do not believe me.

123.      Andrew Dec 21st 2011




   Actually – I am happy to apologize, Derek. And I will be doing so if I am wrong.

   If this is not a real “double dip” Depression, I will be apologizing big-time.

   -And happy to do so.

   Bless you!
   Andrew

124.      Tim (onesimus) Dec 21st 2011




   Derek,
   Again you are totally wrong.
   Apologies are totally necessary in cases like this. Both Andrew and myself have
   expressed a willingness to apologise if proven to be wrong.

   Apologies aren’t needed for the sake of ego-fulfillment, they are a necessary
   aspect of repentance.

   If it turns out that I need to apologise to Andrew I’ll do so willingly, not because
   Andrew needs my apology to satisfy an ego thing, but because my own
   relationship with God would suffer if I refused to acknowledge, confess and turn
   from wrong-doing.

125.      Andrew Dec 21st 2011




   I totally agree, Tim.

   Very important.

   Bless you!

   Andrew

				
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