EDUC2029 Week 12 by ae98A1i

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									EDUC2029 Week 12

Analysing talk in classrooms
      Anticipatory set: What’s going wrong here?

T: OK. Now in front of you , you have the animal that you’ve chosen to write about.
     And so what will be the heading on the top of your concept map? Natalie?
N: Lamb?
T: Now the lambs are the babies, so your is about a sheep. OK. And you’d be
     talking about the fact that the lambs are baby animals of the sheep. That’s
     right. What will be at the top of your concept map Julie?
J: (Lamb?)
T: Pardon?
J: A lamb?
T: That’s, that’s a goat love. Goat. You’ve chosen a goat. I think you’d better get a
     picture that’s a bit bigger as well. So that you can see the rest of the goat.
     What are you going to have at the top of your concept map?
S: Horse.
                   Aims
• To provide general feedback on Assignment 2
• To outline and exemplify the types of
  interactive trouble
• To explore a contrasting model to IRE
            Outline of lecture


• Anticipatory set
• Aims and outline
• Assignment 2
• Interactive trouble
• Reading to learn: Learning to Read – how to
  avoid interactive trouble?
• Conclusion
Assignment 2

General Feedback
                  Positives


• Stronger introductions
• Reference to readings  guided
  interpretations
• Explanations – best referred to wider, socio-
  political context
• Structure after Fairclough
• Clear and precise
• Good grasp of grammar
        Areas for improvement


• Conceptualising, e.g. students are given more
  power  democratic classrooms, student-centred
  learning; focus on what students will learn 
  outcomes based education
• Specificity (e.g. providing examples) and precision
  (in use of terminology)
• Understanding of grammar
• Clarity of sentences
• Paragraphing
Interactive Trouble
       Types of interactive trouble
•   Epistemological trouble
•   Organisational trouble
•   Reasoning trouble
•   Pedagogical difference
•   Relational trouble
•   Stylistic trouble
       Epistemological trouble
• Epistemology: the nature of knowledge, truth
• Epistemological trouble: the answerer does
  not know the answer, sometimes because the
  what the questioner wants is not clear from
  the question or the evaluative feedback
• The most obvious form of ‘trouble’
Cautionary tale: The colour of grass.
              Epistemological trouble

T: OK. Now in front of you , you have the animal that you’ve chosen to write
     about. And so what will be the heading on the top of your concept map?
     Natalie?
N: Lamb?
T: Now the lambs are the babies, so your is about a sheep. OK. And you’d be
     talking about the fact that the lambs are baby animals of the sheep. That’s
     right. What will be at the top of your concept map Julie?
J: (Lamb?)
T: Pardon?
J: A lamb?
T: That’s, that’s a goat love. Goat. You’ve chosen a goat. I think you’d better
     get a picture that’s a bit bigger as well. So that you can see the rest of the
     goat. What are you going to have at the top of your concept map?
S: Horse.
    Question: How could this have been ‘fixed’?


T: OK. Now in front of you , you have the animal that you’ve chosen to write
     about. And so what will be the heading on the top of your concept map?
     Natalie?
N: Lamb?
T: Now the lambs are the babies, so your is about a sheep. OK. And you’d be
     talking about the fact that the lambs are baby animals of the sheep. That’s
     right. What will be at the top of your concept map Julie?
J: (Lamb?)
T: Pardon?
J: A lamb?
T: That’s, that’s a goat love. Goat. You’ve chosen a goat. I think you’d better
     get a picture that’s a bit bigger as well. So that you can see the rest of the
     goat. What are you going to have at the top of your concept map?
S: Horse.
         Organisational trouble
• Uncertain understandings (hearings) are
  produced by features of the turn-taking cycle,
  e.g. uncertain selection of the next speakers,
  or in other logistic features of the lesson (e.g.
  the need to write certain words on a board in
  a certain order)
           Organisational trouble
T: Let’s go back to this page. All right, these pages tell you
   lots about animals. What were these animals?
Ss: Goats.
T: Do you know what goats are used for on farms?
S: Milking.
T: Those with their hands up. No calling out this time.
S: Milking?
T: Yes, you can (…). Ann?
A: For their, to shear them and get wool to make them
   into a jumper?
T: That’s right…
            Reasoning trouble
• The reasoning practices used in the
  development of questions and answers differ
  from site to site, particularly out-of-school v
  in-school
                   Reasoning trouble

Maths lesson about measuring – teacher has read a story about levels in a
    bath rising. In groups, students have discussed: what happened with all
    the people in the story. Why it went up? And why it went down? And
    why it overflowed.
T: would someone like to share, not what they said, what their partner
    said? Katy? Who was your partner?
K: Robert.
T: OK. Tell us what Robert said.
K: Um, that he liked the bit when, when it went up and down and they
    jumped in and out, in and out.
T: Hmmmm. OK? Thank you. Did you think about why it went up and
    down? That’s what we wanted to talk about. Why? Megan?
M: I thought um, when they, when, um, when the, the man? Etc etc
                    Reasoning trouble

Maths lesson about measuring – teacher has read a story about levels in a
    bath rising. In groups, students have discussed: what happened with all
    the people in the story. Why it went up? And why it went down? And
    why it overflowed.
T: OK. Tell us what Robert said.
K: Um, that he liked the bit when, when it went up and down and they
    jumped in and out, in and out. [Student’s reasoning: This is a story, so I
    need to respond in a way appropriate for a story. We usually need to
    say what we liked about the story, what’s our favourite part.]
T: Hmmmm. OK? Thank you. Did you think about why it went up and
    down? That’s what we wanted to talk about. Why? Megan? [Teacher’s
    reasoning: WTF? That kid’s an idiot – she’s not reasoning like a
    mathematician at all. I’d better try someone else a bit more on the ball.]
M: I thought um, when they, when, um, when the, the man? Etc etc
            Reasoning trouble


Maths lesson about measuring – teacher has read
 a story about levels in a bath rising. In groups,
 students have discussed: what happened with all
 the people in the story. Why it went up? And why
 it went down? And why it overflowed. [Teacher’s
 words]
        Pedagogical difference
• An answer or offering is unacceptable because
  it draws upon a non-preferred theory of
  reading/writing/learning, e.g. whole language
  v phonics answers about how to recognise a
  word
        Pedagogical difference
T: What does ‘pig’ start with?
Ss: ((unison)) ‘p’.
T: What sound does it start with?
Ss: [p] [p]
T: [p] and what letter says [p]?
Ss: ((unison)) ‘p’
            Relational trouble
• The speakers do not reciprocate the preferred
  relationships, displaying instead ‘unharmonic’
  pace, pitch, loudness, proximity, eye contact,
  humour and so on, or uncertainties in the
  knowledge status of the teacher and student
  with respect to the topic at hand
• Playing the ‘guessing game’ – what does the
  teacher want now? How does she want us to
  behave?
                Relational trouble

T: Let’s go back to this page. All right, these pages tell you lots
   about animals. What were these animals?
Ss: Goats. (Answer acceptable even though it’s called out)
T: Do you know what goats are used for on farms?
S: Milking. (Following the same ‘rules’ – but answer not
   allowed)
T: Those with their hands up. No calling out this time.
S: Milking?
T: Yes, you can (…). Ann?
A: For their, to shear them and get wool to make them into a
   jumper?
T: That’s right…
              Relational trouble


T: My cloud’s going to be a ma/ … a person cloud.
S: God
S: Blowing
T: Blo:owing – so that’s the wind.
S: That’s God hiding in the cloud.
S: It’s God.
T: No, it’s not God hiding in the cloud, because I
   didn’t say it was. I said “This is a cloud blowing”.
              Stylistic trouble
• The teacher prefers certain forms of
  expression, such as word choice, with no
  explanation for the choice
• These ‘styles’ tend to be middle class
• Bourdieu (1974): education is a process in
  which ‘cultural gifts come to be systematically
  read as academic and intellectual gifts’
              Stylistic trouble


T Can anyone think of something else that is very
   black? Toenails as black as? Can anyone think of
   something else? Very dark?
S: A cat?
T: As black? Well are all cats black?
Ss: No:oo.
S: Midnight cat.
T: Well? A midnight cat perhaps.
S: Charcoal?
             Stylistic trouble


Ss: As black as (…)
T: Um I’m just going to stop because once again
   some people aren’t doing the (right thing).
S: as black as coal.
T: Now I just heard some very good ideas there,
   but because you didn’t put your hands up,
   we…
             Stylistic trouble


Eventually:
T: Vorisio?
S: As black as a red-bellied black snake?
T: A red-bellied snake?
S: Oh, I know.
T: All right, we might leave it there.
S: A red-bellied black snake.
T: As black as tar. Right? So we get the idea?
            Interactive trouble
• Hits some kids harder than others -
  ‘disadvantaged’ students
• Is it a case of ‘fixing’ the students or the
  teacher?
• BTW: Question-Answer-Evaluation cycle
  (p319) = IRE
Reading to Learn: Learning to
            Read
  A ‘democratic’ alternative to IRE?
                 IRE (Culican, 2006)


• Accounts for possibly 70% of teacher-student interaction
• Routines like IRE ‘function as part of the invisible forms of control in
  ‘liberal progressive’ educational philosophies and pedagogies’
• These pedagogies ‘engage and enable different learners unequally’
• Often begins with a question which appears inclusive and
  democratic – but ‘questions privilege those students already
  equipped to participate successfully in (conversations) around texts,
  further disadvantaging those that lack the knowledge and social
  capital…’ (p7)

So, is there something better? A study in contrasts.
         Reading to Learn (Culican, 2006)



Scaffolding interaction cycle: ‘designed to engage learners
  and equip them equally with the knowledge resources
  needed to participate successfully in the literate
  discourses of schooling’
• Prepare (giving position and meaning cues for students
  to recognise wording): The first/next part of the
  sentence tells us..
• Identify (affirming and highlighting): Can you see the
  words that tell us..? That’s right. Let’s highlight…
• Elaborate (defining, explaining, discussing): That
  means…What do you think…?
 Avoiding interactive trouble (Culikan, 2006)



‘Interactive trouble typically occurs where the teacher
   poses a question which fails to elicit an acceptable or
   correct response. Such question and answer routines
   often fail because they throw students back on their
   existing knowledge resources, rather than extending
   these resources or developing new ones. The theory
   and practice of the Scaffolding Interaction Cycle is
   designed to ensure that all students are equipped with
   the knowledge resources required to participate
   successfully in classroom discourses that take place
   around texts.’ (p7)
                     Example of PIE


Preparation (P)
T: There was a long line of trenches all the way from Belgium through
   Germany. But it starts off Dreams of early success evaporated as both the
   central powers (which is Germany) and the allies (which is France and
   Britain) dug in a long line extending through Belgium to France and
   finishing in the south of Germany. So it starts off by saying ‘people
   dreamed they could succeed quickly’. Can you see the words that mean
   ‘people dreamed they could succeed quickly’? Have a look there.
All [look]
Identification (I)
T: What’s the words that say that?
St: Dreams of early successes
              Example of PIE
Affirmation
T: Very good, that’s great, Dreams of early
   successes. Let’s all do (highlight) that.
All [mark wordings]
Elaboration
T: So that means they were all dreaming, it was
   just a dream. It’s like they were dreaming and
   their dreams just evaporated into thin air.
        PIE in action
• DVD
Conclusion
                 Conclusion
• Questions
• Forms of interactive trouble in ‘Greedy Cat’
• Writing about ‘Greedy Cat’
                     References
Culican, S.J. (2006). Learning to Read:Reading to Learn: A
   Middle Years Literacy Intervention Research Project, Final
   Report 2003-4. Catholic Education Office Melbourne
   http://www.cecv.melb.catholic.edu.au/ Research and
   Seminar Papers. Retrieved 17 October 2009 from
   http://www.readingtolearn.com.au/#/articles/.
Freebody, P., Ludwig, C. and Gunn, S. (1995). Everyday literacy
   practices in and out of school in low socio-economic urban
   communities. Canberra: A project funded by the
   Commonwealth Department of Employment, Education
   and Training, as part of the National Equity Program for
   Schools, National Priorities, Literacy and Learning
   Component and administered by the Curriculum
   Corporation, Commonwealth of Australia.

								
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