NON POINT WORKGROUP
Meeting held at George Washington Regional Commission
October 10, 2007
Next Meeting: November 6 at 10 a.m.
1. Welcome & Introductions
Matt Criblez, DCR (phone)
Larry Dunn, SWCD
Eldon James, Staff
Mac Saphir, VCE Caroline County
Denise Harris, Fauquier County
Bill Latane, VA Farm Bureau
Stuart McKenzie, NNPDC
Continued Preparations for RRBC Summit 2007:
Mr. James reviewed the new flier for the Summit, that is being mailed out. He
stated that 54 people have pre registered and a large number of them have
Brief review of the program and speakers
Mr. James reviewed the speakers. He asked Ms. Harris if she has contacted
Delegate Bulova. Mr. James said he would ask Delegate Wittman about that. Mr.
James said he received some feedback from the RRBC that the opening
presentations should include some context for point source pollution in the basin.
He added that they will get Mr. Pollock to coordinate with Jack Frye to give a
perspective on point source. Ms. Harris asked if Mr. James has had a
conversation with Mr. Frye about not focusing completely on agriculture. Mr.
James said he will follow up with Mr. Pollock and Mr. Frye as they put their
presentation together. Mr. James referred to Mr. Pollock’s recent statements to
the House Appropriations committee that by January 2011, we will have the
capacity, or at least be it will be under construction, to meet the point source
goals. If this is all true, we will solve about 6% of the nutrient pollution in the
Rappahannock River. It was pointed out that as they refine their presentation,
they need to talk more about urban BMPs. Ms. Harris said her read on Mr. Frye’s
presentation was all about agriculture. Mr. McKenzie said it sounds like they are
shifting their focus to growth problems and it will actually change the ordinances
to reduce the impact to water quality. He added that there is more recognition
that everything we are doing is getting sucked up by increased growth. Mr.
James said he will suggest to Mr. Frye to have a conference call on these ideas.
He said they can come back to this later in the meeting to see if one of them
wants to press the point with Mr. Frye. There was some discussion on the idea of
growth and infrastructure. Mr. James commented that hopefully we can come out
of the day with some specific recommendations. If we hit a brick wall then it is the
opportunity for this group, coming out of the Summit, to state that unless we
address it, we really won’t solve water quality issues in the Rappahannock. Mr.
Latane said we need to deal with the change in land use because every time you
trade one farm for a 1,000 homeowners you have forever lost the open space
and all the water quality benefits associated with it.
Mr. Criblez said Mr. Pollock will talk about nutrient trading and how that will help,
and that storm water is not being addressed. Someone needs to make the point
that they could use the nutrient trading for storm water retrofit. He talked about
the cost of storm water retrofit and the efficiency of the nutrient offset program.
Mr. James clarified that Mr. Criblez’s premise is that we should be pressing the
issue if we are trading point to non point there should be a focus on the urban
non point side, which is directly related to growth in the central and upper basin.
He asked if many counties in the basin would be well served to have a point-to-
non point source trade program which includes serious preservation money to
keep the farmer in business. Mr. Criblez said there is much concern that the
state will not have the capacity for trading involving agricultural land. He clarified
that according to the current Tributary Strategies 96% of all farms will meet the
agricultural practice goals, if that is the case where will the excess capacity come
from for the credits to be traded with point sources. There was considerable
discussion on this issue from the group. It was pointed out that if DEQ can meet
their point source goal that’s great but they will not be able to expand for future
growth without the same success in the non point source area. Mr. McKenzie
talked about the MS4 project in northern Virginia and the progression of the
project to various counties. Mr. James suggested that at the Summit we make
sure that these types of issues are brought up. Mr. Latane said we all recognize
that this is an issue, but the people at the Summit need to have it driven home
that land use changes will likely make it impossible to stay under the cap as
Ms. Harris suggested that possibly Mr. Atherton could present talking points that
touch on these issues. She suggested 4 points: we have to look beyond 2011,
we have to look at land conversion issues, that point sources are only 6% of the
sole solution, and agriculture can not be the sole focus for non point solutions.
Mr. James said nutrient trading is a program being developed with great hopes
for it, but there are many unknowns and should we “bet the farm” for an outcome
that we don’t know. The same goes for the “advancements in technology” side of
it. Mr. Latane offered the analogy that we have wonderful recycling technology,
but we still have litter on the street. Mr. McKenzie talked about storm water
retrofitting solutions, such as rainwater management solutions with potable
systems to capture rainwater. Mr. James asked Mr. Criblez if he could locate
some state documents on the Tributary Strategy that he could supply for Mr.
Atherton’s presentation. Ms. Harris noted that the Chesapeake Bay Water
Cleanup Plan is not listed as a discussion topic. She asked if this would be part
of the big picture, setting the stage. There was some discussion on the water
cleanup plan not being agency specific and that it will be included in Delegate
Wittman and Delegate Bulova’s presentation.
Review status of registration and exhibitors
Mr. James said there are 54 pre registrations and four displays that include PEC,
Friends of the Rappahannock, VA Farm Bureau and Forestry. There was some
discussion about the US Fish and Wildlife agency registering to have a display at
Identify tasks to be completed before the Summit and who will be responsible
Mr. James said he would like to get electronic copies of logos from all the
sponsors. Ms. Harris asked if Mr. James was concerned about cost of the
Summit. Mr. James said with the flier going out on the Summit, he is hopeful 80-
100 people will register
Mr. James asked if they need signage besides the table numbers and a banner.
Ms. Harris asked if there were going to be screens behind the podium. Mr.
James said Ms. Burtner will be using that for her questions and there will be
logos displayed on it at other times.
Mr. James talked about the packets each attendee will receive. He showed the
group some materials from previous summits. Mr. Saphir presented some
materials distributed by VA Tech, which include a TMDL glossary. Mr. McKenzie
suggested too much information in the packets will make everyone spend more
time reading what is in the packet, versus listening to the presenters. Mr. Saphir
said he can get 50 copies from Tech to place on a display table. Ms. Harris
suggested providing links to publications on a one-page document to include in
the packets. Mr. James asked Mr. Saphir to send everything to Mr. James with a
carbon copy to the other members of the group. Mr. McKenzie distributed copies
of publications he thought would be some interest at the Summit. These include
the Virginian’s Year Round Guide to Yard Care, Rappahannock River watershed
on environmental resource topics, public access on the Chesapeake Bay maps,
and information on the Last Child in the Woods program. Mr. McKenzie said he
will bring 100 copies of the maps and the Virginian’s Year Round Guide to Yard
Care. He added that this gives it the urban non point side.
Mr. Latane suggested having a stacked chart with a nutrient loading breakdown
by watershed, over time, against the goals. He said that he has never seen this
before, but they have the numbers to produce it. This would be broken down into
three parts. Mr. Criblez said they have pie charts and bar charts with the
numbers, but the model keeps changing. Mr. James asked if there would be
something meaningful in a one-page document to provide in the packet for the
recipients. Mr. Latane noted that it would be preferred to create a visual, instead
There was some discussion about the introductory presentations from Mr. Criblez
on TMDLs, Mr. McKenzie on the cap, and Mr. James presentation on the water
Mr. James asked if anyone in the group would help him put together packets for
the Summit. The group agreed to help with this task Friday, Oct. 26. He also
asked for help in breaking up the table assignments. The group agreed that the
criteria for breaking up the table assignments is to split up the counties, mix local,
regional and state levels, and to mix up the parts of the basin. Mr. James
reviewed the members of the list, which include elected officials, chief
administrators, planning, environmentalists, engineering, soil and water district,
directors and staff. The categories are VCES, non profits, waste water treatment,
forestry, and state agencies. Mr. James said he may start creating a chart.
Review facilitators and their responsibilities
Mr. James reviewed the morning and afternoon table facilitation. He said they
have 10-15 tables that need to be facilitated. He confirmed with the group who
would be there. This includes Ms. Harris, Mr. McKenzie, Mr. Saphir, and Mr.
Dunn. Mr. Saphir also said four extension agents will be available to facilitate the
Summit. This includes John Howe, Sam Johnson, Regina Prunty, and Sharon
Conner. Mr. McKenzie said he will ask Faye Andrashko to be a part of the
logistical staff. There was some further discussion on who else may be attending
the Summit. Ms. Harris urged the group that they really need to get local
government to attend. Mr. James noted that the Orange and Culpeper counties
local government is missing from the list. Mr. Criblez said he will call Andrea
Horning in Stafford and Randy Wheeler. Mr. James asked Mr. Criblez if he would
ask who they need to talk to in Spotsylvania. Mr. Criblez said he will talk to the
new planning director. Mr. James said he will call Linda Lumpkin and Frank
Pleva in Essex and Middlesex counties respectively. Mr. Saphir said that when
they recruited the extension agents, he told them they did not have to pay. Mr.
Mr. James said the facilitators need to be there by 7:45 a.m. Ms. Harris
suggested that Mr. James send an email to all those who have registered to be
at the Summit by 8:15 to receive the packets.
Action Items, Agenda and Dates for future meetings
Do we need a committee or other group to meet before the Summit? The group
decided there was no reason to meet before the Summit.
October 30 — Summit 2007
The NPWG will meet November 6 at 10 a.m. (to be held at new GWRC office -
406 Princess Anne Street, Fredericksburg)
An additional meeting to review the first draft of the Summit report before it is
presented to the RRBC, will be held on Thursday, November 29 at 10 a.m.
Ms. Harris reported that VAPA has scheduled their next conference for March
26-28 at the Hyatt Town Center in Reston.
The meeting concluded at 11:54 a.m.