CITY OF SHAWNEE
PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MEETING
MAY 20, 2008
Chairperson Goode called the meeting to order at 7:04 p.m.
Councilmembers Present Staff Present
Councilmember Scott City Manager Gonzales
Councilmember Goode Assistant City Manager Charlesworth
Councilmember Kuhn Deputy City Clerk Powell
Councilmember Distler Public Works Director Freyermuth
Planning Director Chaffee
Other Councilmembers Present Police Chief Morgan
Councilmember Pflumm Fire Chief Hudson
Councilmember Sawyer Parks and Recreation Director Holman
Councilmember Sandifer Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru
Councilmember Straub Finance Director Kidney
Stormwater Manager Gregory
Information Technologies Director Doherty
Senior Project Engineer Lindstrom
Network and Systems Manager Bunting
Police Sergeant Larsen
Members of the public who spoke: None.
1. BUDGET SESSION II: SPECIAL REVENUE FUND BUDGET OVERVIEW.
Chairperson Goode stated tonight is the second budget meeting for the 2008
Revised/2009 Budget process which will focus on the City's special funds. Staff will
present an overview of the City's Special Funds.
City Manager Gonzales stated the presentation includes 126 slides, so at an average of
one minute per slide, the meeting will run at least two hours. She stated this is all good
information and she knows the committee will all be interested in what the staff has
prepared. They have it orchestrated with enough different speakers that hopefully it will
City Manager Gonzales stated most of the funds are in pretty good shape, but they will
need to talk and think about a couple of them more in depth. The City has used their
funds very well to cash fund projects and dedicate them to certain purposes, some of that
is required and some of that has been determined by Councils - this Council as well as
PAGE 2 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
City Manager Gonzales began with the revenues and expenses presented by Finance
Director Kidney at the last meeting. She stated nothing has changed, but they will dig
into each of the funds a little further.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff is not asking for any decisions this evening,
merely input, feedback, discussion on some of the issues, and direction. She stated as
they work through the other funds and bring the whole package together, the staff will
bring back their recommendations as determined by the Council’s input. The staff will
welcome any questions during the presentation at any time.
Finance Director Kidney stated he will first present a broad overview of the revenue
assumptions being made for the special revenue funds, along with the General Fund and
the Debt Service Fund. He stated with property tax, they are looking at a 1.5% assessed
value increase over last year. It is interesting to note that without three of the City’s
abated properties coming back on, one major one being the Bayer abatement from 10
years, if they had not received those tax assessments coming back online, they would
actually not have had a projected assessed value increase. He stated if they go back 10
years and look at the leadership at that time, in this case it is definitely good timing for
those abatements to come back on.
Councilmember Goode stated it might have been over 25 years ago when the City made
their first abatements with Bayer.
Finance Director Kidney stated they did come in pretty good this year. He stated with
sales tax assumptions, the staff will project a 2.5% increase in retail sales which may
seem a little counter from what has been said in the past. He stated in talking with other
cities, they are looking at about the same rates. He stated to make some of these
projections work out, it did not hurt to have a 2.5% sales tax rate.
Finance Director Kidney stated when the staff comes back before the Council in June and
July, they will have a better idea of where they are actually sitting. So far this year, they
are looking at a 2.5% to 3% increase, however this time last year they were looking at a
4% increase. He stated they will just have to wait to see how things goes, but the
projections this evening are based on 2.5%.
Finance Director Kidney stated the Motor Vehicle Tax is not a very large part of the
revenues that come in. He stated they are actually showing those as flat and it seems like
the growth within the City with people registering new higher paying cars is stabilizing
and they are not seeing a large increase in this tax. He stated the projections do show
Finance Director Kidney stated they are looking at a 2% interest rate on idle funds. He
stated they have been able to lock into some 2% rates, which would have seemed really
bad this time last year however they are rather excited about some of the 2% rates right
PAGE 3 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated that was an overview of most of the funds and if there is a
specific revenue line item in some of the projections, he will talk further or answer any
Finance Director Kidney stated he mentioned the assessed value trend. From 2005 to
2006, they will see it was at 8.5% and it went down to 7%, then had a 5% increase. He
stated between 2008 and 2009 there is a 1.5% increase. That is actually made up of three
different items, the big one being real estate, both commercial and residential which is the
lion’s share of the valuation at $693 million out of the $750 million.
Finance Director Kidney pointed out the other two items, one being the state assessed
utilities. He stated that is the amount like Kansas City Power & Light or Westar that is
valuated as a whole – statewide. It is then allocated back to each one of the taxing units
and have actually seen kind of a slow down. On the chart it has gone from 18, 19, 20, to
22 this year. He stated with talking to people statewide, they are not seeing a large
increase in state assessed utilities.
Finance Director Kidney stated the other one is personal property, but these are not a
large proportion of the total taxes, but certainly have an impact. He stated in 2005 it was
$42 million, dropped to $41 million, and then $44 million. Last year, the exemption from
taxation of new commercial personal property equipment went into effect so they saw it
drop to $41 million and project a 12% decrease to $36 million. He thinks that drop from
$41 million to $36 million affects the City at about $130,000 in tax revenue. He stated it
is not a huge amount like Lenexa, but $130,000 is $130,000 and something to which the
staff is certainly keeping track.
Finance Director Kidney continued with retail sales noting the blue line on the slide
showing the percent increases of each year. He stated since 2004, the City has had a
decrease in the increase of retail sales, however at the end of 2007 it was a 1.4% drop
over the prior year and the staff is seeing some stabilization of that revenue so they hope
they do see a 2.5% increase at least into 2009 based on 2008 actual. He stated 2008R is
looking flat over 2007 and then at 2.5% from 2008 to 2009.
Councilmember Goode asked Finance Director Kidney if that is his projection.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes.
Neighborhood Revitalization Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for the downtown activities,
improvements, including the grants, tax rebates, and interest buy-down program. He
stated several years ago a transfer was made of $100,000 from the General Fund into this
special revenue fund. He stated in 2008, it was lowered to $70,000 and in 2009 they are
lowering it to $64,800. He stated the whole idea was that the special revenue fund, NRA
property tax rebates would come in and help out the downtown fund so the City would
not have to subsidize as much.
PAGE 4 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney pointed out how the rebate is actually calculated on the budget.
He stated the staff actually shows the net revenue line item of the 10% that the City
keeps, so in 2008 they had $175,000 worth of tax rebates of people that paid taxes within
the downtown district. He stated $175,000 of it was returned back to the City and they
distributed out $157,500 and kept 10% - $17,500. He stated in 2009, they are looking at
projections that there will be $200,000 of taxes rebated back to property owners in the
downtown area and the City will keep the $20,000 and distribute out the $180,000. He
stated it is really growing and seems to be taking on.
Finance Director Kidney stated there is a statute that explains the reasoning behind this
fund and for what this fund is to be used. He presented a snapshot and stated the
committee will see the same format on each of the funds with some highlights. The
snapshot showing 2007 Actual, 2008 Original, 2008R, and budget for 2009 are the
numbers the committee would see if they were to approve the budget this evening. They
are hoping for input and any comment. He stated a month from now when the staff
comes back with their wrap-up, they will make all the adjustments needed and this would
be the final form. He stated the bottom line shows total expenditures, the $74,800
leaving a fund balance in this fund at the end of 2009.
Planning Director Chaffee explained that the Neighborhood Revitalization Fund is for the
activities and the incentives that the Shawnee Downtown Partnership and City Council
have created over the last few years. He stated being a partnership is just that, the City,
business owners, and property owners in the downtown area working together to make
the improvements in the downtown area to keep it a lively place and encourage
redevelopment and revitalization.
Planning Director Chaffee stated Finance Director Kidney mentioned the rebates earlier,
so the committee is informed as to where they have gone. He stated 2006 and 2007 was
the first year that rebates were actually issued. He stated at that time, they had 12
properties that participated in the program. He stated in 2008, the City has 17 properties
that participate. For 2009, they anticipate four new properties to come into the program,
so there will be 21 properties. He stated hopefully as improvements are made along
Nieman Road and things continue along Shawnee Mission Parkway and Johnson Drive,
more businesses and property owners will participate in the rebate program.
Planning Director Chaffee stated the rebates are good for a 10 year period for a property
owner. He stated City Manager Montague wanted the program to start pretty quickly,
really right away, so the County dragged their feet getting the program set up so the City
fronted some of the businesses early on to get them going to see that the program was up
front and happening. He stated in about 2013, the first set will drop out and more will be
added, so they will ebb and flow along that time once they get to 2013.
Planning Director Chaffee stated part of the deal with the Shawnee Downtown
Partnership, when the program originated, is that the City slowly funded the Shawnee
Downtown Partnership and their activities, along with all the loans, grants, and incentive
PAGE 5 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
programs along the way. He stated the City provided $100,000 with the understanding
that over time it would truly become more of a partnership, where it was more of an even
split along the way, so they have been able to accomplish that the last few years. Now
that the City has some funds in the Neighborhood Improvement Fund that they are
getting from their $10,000, they have some money where they can start to do some
different things to wean funds out of the General Fund to help support the program. He
stated the Partnership looked at their budget and created it, indicating when they came
forth with the budget, that once again the amount coming out of the General Fund to
perform their activities be reduced from $70,000 to $64,800.
Planning Director Chaffee stated they are also proposing to start using some of the funds
from the Neighborhood Improvement Fund the City receives from the rebates and start
funding some of the grant programs out of that program for the businesses that do work
to their façades and to their buildings. He stated generally the feeling is that they hear the
old saying that ‘You have to spend money to make money’, and thinks by using the funds
towards the grants they are using it in a manner consistent with the state statute that
Finance Director Kidney previously presented.
Planning Director Chaffee presented a bar chart noting that obviously the fund balance
was low in 2006/2007 and as more businesses participate in the program, obviously the
income over a period of time will increase. He stated they are showing the General Fund
transfer lowering and flattening off once they reach a point where the General Fund and
other funds help fund the activities. He stated the Shawnee Downtown Partnership have
done a good job attracting sponsors. They have received donations for some of those
activities, which also helps with the General Fund.
Planning Director Chaffee explained that the spike in 2007 was the catch-up on the
rebates. He stated what he indicated really early on is that they had wanted the program
to get up and rolling. He stated without the funds coming in, the staff went ahead and
made the rebates to some of the businesses back in 2004/2005. They had to estimate the
increment, and did that looking at the appraiser’s records. In some cases they were off,
which is good for the property owner because it meant that his value actually increased
more than they thought it was going to, so that is a good thing in the long run.
Planning Director Chaffee stated in 2007, they caught up on the rebates and reimbursed
those businesses that had received rebates in the past where perhaps they had not paid
them what they should have been paid; in some cases they are not very much. He stated
one is $67.00, but at the time they had guessed $45.00, so they received about $80.00 one
Planning Director Chaffee stated the people really appreciate the program. He stated one
thing they do a little different than DeSoto and Gardner, is that the County treasurer in
those communities just makes the rebate to the property owner and receives a check in
the mail from the County treasurer. He stated Shawnee has the arrangement where the
treasurer forwards all the money to the City and they cut the check and send it back, so
PAGE 6 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
the property owner is actually getting something back from the City and he personally
thinks that is important.
Councilmember Straub asked if basically this year, the City is putting $70,000 of the
General Fund into this and if that is the only cost to the City and then next year they
Planning Director Chaffee explained the City is putting in $70,000 this year and next year
$64,800. He stated the City will use $10,000 of the 10% they are getting to fund two of
the grants to businesses to make improvements.
Councilmember Straub stated it is costing the City $74,800 to continue this program.
Planning Director Chaffee explained the total cost will be $74,000, with $68,000 coming
out of the General Fund which is a reduction from last year and starting to use this fund
for the purposes it was set up for, now that they actually have money to do some things.
He stated every year, the partnership in the City has to look at the fund by state statute
and may decide to go in a different direction as long as it is something they can fund. He
stated they can not fund the special activities they have, like the bike show and the
scarecrow festival, and has to be true investments in properties or could be an
infrastructure project somewhere along the line.
Councilmember Pflumm stated last year he thought they said they were going to try look
at the breakfast and some of those other things to get sponsors and cut down their
Planning Director Chaffee stated that is correct and they are still working on it. He stated
every year they receive more donations than in the past.
Finance Director Kidney stated the chart is basically a graphical representation of the 10
year financial forecast that the Council received this evening. He stated to show all 10
years up on the screen was just too much, so they do have the actual 10 year numbers for
each of the years shown in the charts and that is just a graphical representation. The staff
has the actual numbers.
Public Safety Equipment Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for the purchase of Police,
Fire, and rescue equipment. He stated they are actually utilizing this fund for a
replacement program. He stated the committee will see both Police and Fire have a
replacement plan that is completely funded by property tax. He noted the chart showing
that currently the mill rate is a little more than half a mill and the staff does not see a need
for an increase. It brought in $396,000 in 2008 and $402,000 in 2009, which is a change
of $6,000 showing the 1.5% increase.
PAGE 7 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated that is another problem with the 1.5% increase
evaluation, in that they are not seeing a big change in the amount of property tax going up
in these funds. He stated when the department heads are coming in with their requests,
they are definitely cutting back to make sure they stay within that amount.
Finance Director Kidney presented a snapshot of this fund. He noted the bottom line is
total expenditures of $524,000 being proposed for 2009. He stated $235,000 of it is for
fire equipment replacements and $289,000 is for police equipment.
Councilmember Straub asked why the lease purchase payments are doubling.
Finance Director Kidney explained the lease payment in 2008 of $100,000 is for a fire
truck approved by the Council last year. He stated hopefully they will start this year,
depending on when they receive the equipment. He stated the 2009 amount is for a new
truck lease payment and Fire Chief Hudson will talk about that in a few minutes. He
stated it is part of the overall replacement plan for the fire trucks that Fire Chief Hudson
presented over the last couple of years. He stated $100,000 is probably a little higher
than what is actually needed on the lease payment, as he did a ballpark estimate on those
Councilmember Straub stated it looks like it has gone down quite a bit in the licensing
and up in operations.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct. He stated the Police Department did a
really nice thing with their replacement plan. He presented the actual detail of the lease
payment. He stated in 2008 it is $100,000 and in 2009 it is $100,000 in vehicle
replacement and their equipment plans. He stated some of them may remember last year
the $35,000 allocated for each Police and Fire which was to be a flexible thing to let them
choose what the most important thing, equipment-wise, was for them to replace each
Fire Chief Hudson stated two years ago, the City Manager asked the Fire Department to
sit down and do something that they had never done before in the department – plan out
for 10 to 12 years, maybe a little longer, a replacement schedule for the fire engines/fire
trucks and other large equipment in the department. He stated they came back with a
replacement schedule that was pretty aggressive and in some years asked to replace two
engines or trucks, a ladder truck and an engine, or two fire engines in one year.
Fire Chief Hudson stated looking at how the funding was coming in, the actual revenues,
they were asked to go back and look at it again and they did pushing everything out
where their replacement schedule that they are asking for now and have looked at for the
last two years and into the future, would replace one large piece of apparatus in the Fire
Department. He explained the schedule shown a moment ago with the lease purchase
payments. The first one for $100,000 is for a 105 foot ladder truck that has been
approved and is on order that they expect to be delivered later this year. He stated one
PAGE 8 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
that was approved last year for this year’s budget that has not come before the Council
yet, but will very soon.
Fire Chief Hudson sated he wanted to talk tonight about the 2009 requests and purchase
of a fire engine to replace Engine #723 which is housed at Station No. 73. He stated it is
a 1989 Emergency One fire engine that the City bought brand new in 1989. It was
ordered in 1988, received in 1989, and has a little over 100,000 miles on it and is their
second piece out at Station No. 73, which is located at K-7 Highway and Shawnee
Mission Parkway. He stated that is the 2009 request for apparatus in the replacement
Fire Chief Hudson presented a picture of a fire engine which is a newer design. He stated
it looks similar to the fire engine purchased in 2002. He stated it is at headquarters,
Station No. 71, and that is the first out fire engine at that station located at 65th and
Quivira. He stated it does look a little different with the great big mirrors hanging out
over the front to give the driver a little more visibility and really makes the engine look
different. He stated the raised roof cab is something that has been on fire engines for
about six years now, which is a safety feature that allows for more movement in the cab
when the truck is stationery and the fire fighters are getting in and out, whether they are
putting on or taking off their equipment.
Fire Chief Hudson stated the request for 2009 is to replace the fire engine at Station No.3
and Finance Director Kidney alluded to the $35,000 that has been plugged in if it stays
and the Fire Department has earmarked some of that for replacing the firefighter’s
bunker, or turnout gear – their helmet, heavy coat, bunker pants, and boots. He stated
they want to do it all in one year and are trying to piece things together and do one-third
of the department over the next three years. He stated the first year will come to a
Council agenda soon, but is what that bunker gear portion is earmarked for.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that concludes the Fire Department proposal for 2009.
Councilmember Distler asked if on calls that are known medical calls, because she knows
the Fire Department is usually first on site, is there an SUV that could be sent out instead
of firing up one of these large vehicles if they know it is just a medical call and not just a
Councilmember Pflumm stated he brought that same thing up a couple years ago, because
they could almost camp a guy out on 75th Street at all those apartments and the guys
would never leave the station. He stated that is something they should probably look
Fire Chief Hudson stated they do have what they call a squad-type truck at Station No.3
and one at Station No. 2. He stated the problem is when they just send two people out on
that type of a call, they have then gone two people below minimum staffing on a fire
engine and if they have a call for a house fire, they are below minimum staffing and can
not do interior firefighting when they are below minimum staffing.
PAGE 9 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Distler stated she would agree with that, but if they are on the same
medical call in the fire truck, how would they respond if they are already responding on
Fire Chief Hudson replied when the transporting ambulance gets there, Johnson County
MedAct on the many of the calls, the Shawnee Fire Department can make their crews
available. He stated if they have either a second or third medical call or other type of
emergency, that crew is available, even if they are on the scene helping out; they are
available to leave if they get called out.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that would be the same thing as what Councilmember
Distler was saying. If the address is some place over on Goddard, it is going to be in that
direction if they are hanging out at apartments or going to an apartment and they could
meet them there.
Fire Chief Hudson stated they can, but if that fire is in another direction that crew of two
people who are left on the fire engine can not go in and do any interior firefighting. He
stated they have to keep that crew together for minimum staffing.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they agree and understand that.
Fire Chief Hudson stated for a while before they got to the level they are now and are
running a little short at headquarters in the overall plan, but are almost there, when they
were about halfway there they were running a squad out of headquarters and sending
those two people out so they did not have to commit that engine. He stated in a fire
station where there is only that fire engine and those four people, they keep those four
people together all the time.
Councilmember Straub asked if there is one at Station No. 72 and Station No. 73 and if
that is different from Fire Station No. 71. He stated Fire Chief Hudson said they have a
vehicle at Station No. 72 and No. 73, but it is just not used.
Fire Chief Hudson stated they do use it and will use it on brush fires or on houses where
they know they can not get in the big fire truck. He stated they may take the brush truck
with them as well to get into areas where they can not take the fire truck off road, for
instance, where the crew is still together but they have that unit with them. He stated at
headquarters now, where they used to have the squad that is located at Station No. 73 out
at K-7 Highway and Shawnee Mission Parkway - that squad was at headquarters. He
stated last year when they did the most recent round of hiring and were able to staff a
second truck with three people, they moved that squad out to Station No. 73, because
they now have a crew that works on both pieces of apparatus at headquarters. They
always keep the crews together.
Councilmember Straub asked if someone out at Station No. 72 has the truck and are on a
medical call and a fire comes in and they are not done with that medical call or the
PAGE 10 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
ambulance, would they stay there and then have someone out of Station No. 71 or Station
No. 73 answer the new call.
Fire Chief Hudson replied if that crew is committed on a call and there is another call in
that district and that particular crew is still committed on that call, then they have to call
for a crew out of one of the other two districts here in Shawnee, or if it is closer to a
Lenexa, Overland Park, or Merriam station, the dispatchers will send them out on the
Councilmember Straub asked what would be the difference, because they still could not
go on the call even if they were all together.
Fire Chief Hudson stated he thinks the difference is, if they have that second call when
they were freed up, they can all go together and do not have to meet up somewhere. He
stated they keep the crews together and anything before four is what Shawnee said was
minimum staffing many years ago and it meets the intent of one of the National Fire
Protection Association standards of having those four people on a fire engine or a fire
truck, so there are enough people on the scene within a certain amount of time to begin
interior firefighting. He stated if he understands Councilmember Straub’s question, if
they are committed on the call with two people . . .
Councilmember Straub interjected or with four people, they still can not go.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct.
Councilmember Pflumm stated if they are on a medical call and there is a huge fire going
on, then they are done.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct, but they could not do anything once they got
there anyway with less than four people, because it is the same as not having them there.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he thinks they understand that and thinks it is more of an
equipment usage issue. He asked how many calls they had last year.
Fire Chief Hudson replied last year they ran about 4,500 calls in Shawnee.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he remembers it was in that range, so if they are taking
that engine on 4,000 calls and not just one, it would be better to take a Suburban or a
Fire Chief Hudson stated he does not feel as if he really answered the question, but the
Fire Department keeps their staffing at four and there are safety reasons behind that
decision and a standard written policy for doing it that way.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is the reason they have the ability to pull from Lenexa
or Merriam and likewise if they get into problems. He stated he does not intend to sit up
PAGE 11 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
there and second guess how the Fire Department or Police Department operate their
equipment. He stated he is one that believes if they do not have the equipment, then they
can not do their jobs and does not see any problem with the way they are utilizing their
Fire Chief Hudson stated the automatic AID system in the County is a great system. He
stated Shawnee has been the benefactor of that system for many years, more or less in the
last 2 to 3 years since the Council approved the additional firefighters at headquarters and
that has really helped Shawnee not drawing from other people’s resources as frequently
as they had in the past.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the other factor is that it is instantaneous, because the City
is dispatched out of the County over on Lamar, so they know what units are available and
where they are, so it is not like they have to make that decision off the street as it is made
basically by them over there.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct, in that they know where all the units are at, at all
times, however he did hear what Councilmember Pflumm was saying earlier and assured
the committee that the Fire Department is always open to looking at things and re-looking
at things, and then looking at them a third time if they have to.
Councilmember Kuhn stated maybe she is missing a relatively obvious point, but stated
with the fire truck they are replacing, it is not like they use them a lot for mileage, in that
it is 20 years old and has only 100,000 miles on it, so what exactly are they saving by
putting people in the SUV, rather than the fire truck, other than environmentally and gas
Fire Chief Hudson replied he thinks it is the nature of the call. He stated they will take
the brush or the squad with them if they know they are going to a home and already have
them preplanned by address, where they might have to finish their job with that to get
people in there, but there is equipment on that big fire truck that they may need that can
not be put on the squad.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that is why she would question taking an SUV and not the
Fire Chief Hudson stated many times if it is a brush fire or a grass fire where they might
have to transport in equipment, they can not put everything on that squad.
Councilmember Kuhn stated Councilmember Distler initially brought it up and she was
wondering what the thought process was for what they would benefit in not using that
truck. She stated she can think of a million reasons why it would always be good to have
their firemen on the truck and can not think of a good reason not to.
Councilmember Distler added not only for the environment, but with the wear and tear of
the usage on the truck. She stated she maybe heard of three fire calls out of all the times
PAGE 12 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
she has listened in on the radio, because most of the calls are medical calls. She stated
she was just thinking if someone was having difficulty breathing or received an injury
from a fall, those are the two common calls she hears, then they would not necessarily
need to put even the 10,000 miles a year on the truck if they could respond medically.
She stated it would be different if they did not know what the 911 call was for, but
sometimes they do before they get there.
Councilmember Kuhn stated Councilmember Distler is talking about prolonging the life
of the truck.
Councilmember Distler stated that is correct.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he has witnessed this and a smaller truck gets there a lot
quicker as it is more agile. He stated there is gas consumption and other reasons, but if
they are working on 75th Street where there are a lot of apartments, they see the big trucks
coming in there every day and never use a thing on them. He stated they are sending out
the tanks when they may need something smaller and that is all that was brought up. He
stated the City is buying all these big trucks, when they could possibly save the wear and
tear on the ones they already have.
Fire Chief Hudson stated when the firefighters are out, with the philosophy in their
organization and their Fire Department in mind, is that he wants them to have the tools
with them to get the job done if the need should arise.
Councilmember Kuhn went back to what Councilmember Sawyer said earlier about
second guessing where they are. She stated her other thought would be how they talked
about whether they could send two out in one truck and how they could go, but God
forbid that while they are on the medical call for a fall and they are sent out in the SUV
because they have to keep all four of them together, they would then have to go back to
the fire station to get the big truck for a fire call. She stated she wants her firemen on a
fire truck, because that just makes sense to her.
Councilmember Straub stated the other two could drive it out.
Councilmember Kuhn asked what if someone is stuck in traffic. She stated it seems as if
they should have their team together on a fire truck.
Councilmember Pflumm stated Councilmember Kuhn did not listen to what
Councilmember Distler said, in that if those four people are already on that medical call,
they are not doing anything and are done. She stated they are not even en route.
Councilmember Kuhn stated it was said that as soon as the ambulance gets there, they
can be released.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he takes exception that on a medical call they are not
PAGE 13 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Plfumm stated he meant they are not available for a fire.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he understands that.
Councilmember Pflumm stated Councilmember Sawyer is grasping at straws.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not; he is simply restating what Councilmember
Pflumm just said. He stated someone brought up that their response times are wrong, but
believes the Council was provided last year with the average response times.
Fire Chief Hudson stated it is at about 4 ½ minutes, but are creeping up.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not convinced that it will be any faster with a smaller
Fire Chief Hudson stated he believes that is the case because of the equipment they have
on it that controls the intersections. He stated it might be 2-10 seconds less, but not that
much of a difference with a smaller vehicle.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks if they look at it, they will have the second
MedAct unit stationed at Station No. 73. He stated they will be some employees that are
employed by the County. He stated they have one of those at Station No. 71. He stated
they are basically leaving Station No. 71 and going to support them. He stated if they are
willing to hire more help, then they can run the smaller vehicles, but that has a cost with
Councilmember Kuhn stated they would need two firemen on the site just for that vehicle
and that would be great.
Fire Chief Hudson stated the City’s call loads may get there some day.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they are not looking to add people, but if the need were
there they would just cut something else.
Fire Chief Hudson stated their call load is going up about 300 calls a year, so it is
Councilmember Distler asked if the ambulance leaves the station, does the firemen go
Fire Chief Hudson answered yes.
Councilmember Distler stated then the firemen go whether the ambulance is on its way or
PAGE 14 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Pflumm added they go – in a big truck.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct. He stated if they get called away from there to
go on a structure fire, grass fire, or car fire, they have their truck and their equipment with
Councilmember Sawyer stated they will not have a MedAct unit at Station No. 72 at this
time. He stated they only have one at Station No. 71 and Station No. 73’s is coming.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct. He stated they have discussed it with them and
felt it was not the place they wanted to put a unit at this time, nor at any time in the
Councilmember Goode stated Overland Park has different MedAct units coming out of
their stations and they are Overland Park MedAct. He asked if Overland Park has their
own MedAct, because they are different colored trucks.
Fire Chief Hudson replied about four or five years ago, the Overland Park Fire
Department entered into a partnership with Johnson County MedAct to run their own
Type I advanced live support transporting ambulance service and it is a partnership. He
stated on that truck, is an Overland Park Fire Department paramedic and a Johnson
County MedAct paramedic. He stated someone might even see them here in Shawnee
sometime if their MedAct unit is out and they are the next closest unit, so that red unit
might come into Shawnee to make a call.
Councilmember Sawyer stated Saturday was one example, as there was one going down
Police Chief Morgan stated the Police Department also has a vehicle replacement
schedule, as mentioned earlier by Fire Chief Hudson. He stated looking out ahead, theirs
is based right now on current employees, but that is not to say they will not need
employees in the future, but are trying to be realistic about what they have and what they
Police Chief Morgan stated the Police Department tries to make vehicles last “X” amount
of years, depending on what type of vehicle it is and its assignment, as well as mileage.
He stated, for example, they try to have the black and white patrol units to go at least a
minimum, if possible, of three years and somewhere between 100,000 and 120,000 miles.
He stated sometimes they make it just fine and sometimes they might be able to keep
them beyond that point. He stated if a car becomes a lemon, they may want to get rid of
it even sooner if they start having to pour more money into it.
Police Chief Morgan stated this year they had to replace eight (8) vehicles, but next year
they only need to replace four (4) vehicles and that number will vary from year to year.
He stated so far this year, they have spent right around $22,000 out of the $35,000 in fund
available this year, so every officer in the patrol division has their own taser. In the past,
PAGE 15 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
the tasers were assigned to cars and would be shifted from officer to officer, so now they
are actually a personal piece of equipment carried by each officer. He stated they have
some money left in that fund and will probably look at some surveillance equipment or
Police Chief Morgan stated for 2009, the Police Department has a couple requests,
besides the four vehicles previously mentioned. They would like to look at replacing
their in-car video system which is $185,000 and also need to replace a narcotics K-9. He
stated the present K-9, Dewey, is around 7 years old and the K-9 officer informed them
that he intends to retire in a couple of years. He has a couple of dogs with him, a
narcotics dog and a patrol dog. He stated it takes a long time to get a dog bought and
trained, so that is something they need to do so they do not lose any of their expertise in
Police Chief Morgan stated the in-car video system was originally purchased back in the
early 1990’s and started out in the criminal interdiction unit. He stated these systems
were in the patrol division and are now in the traffic cars. The Police Department
currently has 28 and they are VHS tape systems like the old VCRs. He stated as they can
all probably guess, they are becoming outdated and the manufacturers told them it will
not be long before they are all digital and the department will not be able to buy
Police Chief Morgan stated by 2009, most of the current systems will be five years old
and past the recommended service life which is somewhere right around three years. He
stated the current system is a mobile system and the Police Department has had really
good luck with it.
Police Chief Morgan presented a picture of what the current system looks like. He noted
the camera itself that sits up in the front windshield of the patrol car. The big box is a
vault that goes in the trunk and is where the actual tape is located where it records to.
There is a viewer in the car so the officer can rewind the tape, look at things right there in
the car, and also see what the camera is looking at while he is driving. There is also a
controller and a microphone that they wear to record sound.
Police Chief Morgan stated the new digital system is much nicer. There is a camera,
much like the old system. There is a controller that is about the size of a radio that would
be put in a car that can be slipped into the console, as well as an antenna. He stated there
would no longer be a need to place anything in the trunk because it is all digital and has a
wireless connection, much like how the officers write the reports in their cars now on
their laptops. He stated they then go to wireless access points around the City that send
the reports back to the station server and this new system would work on the same
Police Chief Morgan presented a slide showing a police car with a video in it. They go
around to an access point where it wirelessly transmits and there is a server at the station
where all that information and video is stored. He stated they can then watch these from
PAGE 16 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
a computer screen from within the department to whomever they give access. He
presented a screen shot of what it actually looks like. He stated Camera #1 looks out the
front of the car. Camera #2 is pointed to the backseat of the car.
Police Chief Morgan stated from the computer in the station, it will make life a lot easier
for several people. He stated if they need to make a copy, they can put a DVD into the
computer and make the copy. He stated the Professional Standards Unit who review
complaints on officers and do all the reviews on pursuits, use of force, etc., can sit at this
computer, pull this up from the server, and look at it there.
Police Chief Morgan stated today if an officer needs some film for court, the process is
very cumbersome. He stated the property control person has to get out the video tape, put
it in a VCR, and try its location on the tape. He stated this person spends a lot of time
doing this and making copies. All this person will have to do now, because it is time and
date stamped on the digital system, is pull it right up, make the DVD, and give it to the
officer. He stated quite frankly this person is probably one of the most overworked
people in the Police Department, so this would be a great thing for them.
Police Chief Morgan stated the Police Department wants to buy 26 of the in-car digital
recording systems. That will not replace all they have now and will still have a few with
the video tape, but they are a little newer and the department will make them last as long
Councilmember Straub asked how many cars total does the Police Department have
Police Chief Morgan replied there is somewhere around 70 vehicles, but that ranges from
motorcycles, to different types of trailers, to cars, to the Mobile Command Post.
Councilmember Straub asked if motorcycles have this system.
Police Chief Morgan replied there are systems for motorcycles today. He stated they just
want to start with patrol cars and then get it into the rest of the patrol fleet. He stated they
may take a look at motorcycles, as that is something they have discussed. He stated it is
the same type of technology, but takes up basically one of the saddle bags.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he has a question totally off subject, but if someone has
video of someone from the outside on the sidewalk breaking into a building or something
like that and they do not get a clear picture, can they take it and make it clearer.
Police Chief Morgan stated it would be taken to the Johnson County Crime Lab and if
they can not do it, there is the Regional Computer Forensic Lab who might be able to do
something with it. He stated that is another thing – with digital it is a lot easier to do that
type of stuff than with VHS. He stated the VHS tapes are for VCRs and if any of them
has tried lately to go out and purchase a VCR, they are rather hard to find because the
PAGE 17 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Police Department had to find a new one to play back some of their tapes. Rewinders are
hard to find as well.
Police Chief Morgan stated this package includes the software, server, storage rack, PC
work station, DVD backup and archiving, and the access point. He stated it rather
expensive and costs $185,000, but they are getting to the point where they really need to
do this, because it is just not going to last much longer and the Police Department will not
be able to buy parts for their current system. He stated it comes from the Public Safety
Equipment Fund, much like back in 2005 when they bought the Mobile Command Post,
and that was also a year where they did not have to purchase as many cars and used the
same fund. He stated this is the same type of thing to replace all those videos as well as
the narcotics dog.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that $185,000 buys the 26 in-car systems.
Police Chief Morgan answered yes.
Councilmember Sandifer asked about the old cars and instead of trading them in, is the
City using them for the Codes Department.
Police Chief Morgan answered the old cars get repainted from black and white to all
white and get reused by the Codes Department or whoever else needs them.
Councilmember Sandifer asked Police Chief Morgan if the Police Department is gaining
any type of trade-in off of them.
Police Chief Morgan stated quite frankly, a black and white unit that has over 150,000
miles is probably not worth much on the market these days. He stated the last couple of
years they have tried to keep the cars for two years and have now gone to three years. He
stated that means they have to do better maintenance, but thinks it is worth it.
Councilmember Distler stated she knows video takes up a lot of space, so will they have
to regularly back up these DVDs or will they only keep video for so long.
Police Chief Morgan replied this new system has a purge system. He stated if they know
it is something they need, they will make a copy onto DVD. He stated there are certain
ones they automatically keep if they know they are going to court on it and if it involves a
use of force, an officer being injured, or an officer in pursuit – just all kinds of things that
they, by department policy, have to review and look at. He stated it has an automatic
system. He stated it can be set up to 30, 60, 90 days – whatever the time may be, to
automatically purge. He stated it is pretty state-of-the-art from what they currently use.
Councilmember Pflumm stated Police Chief Morgan said the officers go to a wireless
access point and download.
PAGE 18 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Police Chief Morgan stated that is correct – just like out in front of City Hall where they
have it and do the same thing for the reports. It is the same type of technology.
Finance Director Kidney stated on all these funds, he will give a snapshot of some of the
issues coming up in the 10 year forecast. He stated their intent is the continuation of the
fire and police vehicle replacement plan, as they spoke of the fire apparatus replacement.
He stated something that definitely impacts this fund is a County-wide radio project that
they see needing to lease starting in 2011. He stated the Council will see the financial
forecast will go into the red, so to speak, unless they do some sort of mill increase of .6
mills out in 2011, or discontinue the replacement program. He stated looking out a
couple of years this is something that is going to come into play.
Councilmember Straub asked if that is above and beyond the .5 they already have.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct and will bring it up to 1.1 mills.
City Manager Gonzales stated that is based on the staff’s projections this year and
obviously each year they will look at the projections and hope they go up.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is part of the reason they started doing the financial
forecast; to look out there and see where they have some challenges coming up. He
stated the graph shows the .6 mill increase going into it, the blue line, in order to make
sure the City has the funding for the County-wide radio project, which he actually has in
there as a $200,000 lease for several years.
Councilmember Goode stated this is based on no economic surge at all, between now and
Finance Director Kidney responded that is correct. He stated the valuation he used for
2010 through 2017 is actually a 2.5% increase from the 1.5% increase. He stated
hopefully he is being extremely conservative on that and they will definitely receive more
of an increase.
Councilmember Pflumm asked Finance Director Kidney if he used the same thing for the
Finance Director Kidney replied actually with the sales tax, he put in 2.5% for the whole
life. He stated the thought is that as more businesses come in, it will definitely help the
Councilmember Goode stated things can certainly change between now and 2011.
Councilmember Kuhn asked when they get to the million dollar radio project, how long
will they assume payments until they get to the million dollars.
PAGE 19 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney replied actually he just divided by $200,000, so maybe five
years. He stated next year they may probably put a little more effort into the actual
projections, but it is just one of the things that they want the Council to be at least aware
of and put a placeholder out there to know these things are coming.
Employee Benefit Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated the Employee Benefit Fund is one of the City’s property
tax funds. He stated it is used to account for the expenditures and employee benefits,
including health insurance, contributions to CAPERs, and KP&F. It is primarily funded
by property tax. There is currently 8.2 mills going in here, which in 2009 works out to
almost $6 million. He stated they see that change of the 1.5% valuation would be
Finance Director Kidney stated the next slide shows the individual expenditures that go
into this fund. He stated the majority of it is health insurance and retirement benefits
which are detailed on the next slide. He stated 2009 looks like $2.6 million to $2.7
million for health insurance and retirement benefits of almost $4.1 million. He stated that
is CAPERs, KP&F, and the pension plan.
Finance Director Kidney stated one of the issues they have talked about early on, is that
this is a fund with a cash balance at the end of the year and would have around a $2
million fund balance. He stated the City actually used part of the mill levy two years ago
to go into the Debt Service Fund as part of the effort to keep the Debt Service Fund in a
positive cash flow. He stated one of the thoughts that will be brought back before the
Council as part of the wrap-up, is the possibility, if needed, to bring this in and merge it
with the General Fund. He stated the concern however again is unknown health
insurance costs in the future, but with the revenue increasing in this fund of the 1.5 to 2.5
percent, however expenditures increase on average for a couple of years, with health
insurance they are not sure if it is a 10 or 15 percent increase, but hopefully not.
Finance Director Kidney stated the City has been very fortunate with their health
insurance. He stated given that, it would show a 2 mill increase in 2012, so it is one of
those things that they need to take a look at and hopefully the idea is that the property tax
or valuations will start coming back online. He stated that is one concern and if they
merge this in with the General Fund, it helps the City in the short term, but long term it is
something they will definitely need to deal with. He stated he did not plug in a mill levy
increase with this one and they can see the fund balance in 2012 will be something of
Councilmember Straub asked Finance Director Kidney if he is recommending merging or
Finance Director Kidney replied during the wrap-up, the staff will come back with an
actual set recommendation. He stated a lot of it is that they are still going through the
General Fund recommendations.
PAGE 20 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Sandifer asked about the miscellaneous revenue and if that is part of
what the employees have to pay for their families.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes. He stated a lot of it is actually retiree
contributions into the City’s plan, which is actually the majority of that revenue. He
stated there is the City Council family plan or something similar. He stated it is a nice
plan, but kind of expensive if being paid for completely out of pocket, so that is why it
adds up pretty quick.
Special Narcotics Fund
Finance Director Kidney mentioned that he went over this fund a couple of weeks ago.
He stated this is used to fund small police projects and programs, primarily funded
through drug confiscation proceeds. He stated for some reason, he has an increase of
1.1% plugged in. He stated they really do not have a lot of things earmarked for
expenditures. He stated this is a fund that the Police Department uses if a special project
or capital item comes up where it would be useful. He believes in 2008, they have
plugged in cold fired extinguishers for the patrol cars.
Police Chief Morgan stated it is the same thing Lenexa talked about at a recent dinner.
He stated the Police Department looked into it and found it very worth while, so that is
what they plan to purchase for the Shawnee patrol cars as well.
Finance Director Kidney stated this is a good fund for those things. He stated they really
do not have anything reserved or earmarked for future projects/programs at this time.
The amounts were plugged in and the 10 year forecast is pretty straight forward with a
fund balance of about $80,000.
Special Highway Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for expenditures relating to
the repair and maintenance of City streets and highways. It is funded by the City’s share
of the Kansas Gasoline Tax. He stated in 2008 the Gasoline Tax was $1.7 million and
they project it at $1.748 million in 2009 for a change of $34,000 or 2%. He stated they
receive estimates from the state and also compare with other pier cities.
Councilmember Goode asked if that is a hard one to handle with all the inflation and gas.
Finance Director Kidney stated 2% is probably overly optimistic, depending on the
economy. He stated the important thing to note is the General Fund transfer. He stated
they plugged in $1 million in 2008 and have actually made that transfer. He stated in
2009 they plugged in $2 million which is a pretty good increase and is to keep the
program in balance with the City’s policy. He stated Public Works Director Freyermuth
has a presentation about not only that $2 million, but several other options.
PAGE 21 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated the staff put together special spreadsheets, one being if
that $2 million transfer would give the City expenditures of $4 million in the fund, then
they looked at what would happen if they capped the transfer to $1 million a year and is a
total expenditure of $3.1 million.
Finance Director Kidney stated the third one they threw in was capping the transferred
million and if the County-wide sales tax passes, putting half of that into this fund which
would bring that up to approximately $550,000.
Finance Director Kidney presented a summary of 2008/2009 expenditure highlights. The
two major items that are included are the drainage, curb repair and mill and overlay.
Councilmember Scott asked for the City’s share of the Kansas Gasoline Tax. She asked
if it a flat percent.
Finance Director Kidney replied in 2008 they are looking at $1.7 million. He stated the
way they come up with that figure is based on several factors. He stated it all goes to the
state and they turn around and give it back to each county and each county has a different
formula and is based on vehicle miles traveled. He stated actually even if the amount to
the cities goes down, Shawnee has the potential to still go up because of their increasing
lane miles, as well as the population. He stated it goes two years back and is somewhat
hard to track.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he will begin with some background
information and also address some of the concerns and options of what to do with this
fund. He stated Finance Director Kidney mentioned this is probably one of the funds
they need to look at, because it has been running under-funded for quite a few years and a
lot of that is because the Gasoline Tax has really been flat in the State of Kansas for five
or six years and has been the same general amount that really only changes a little.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated as Finance Director Kidney mentioned earlier,
there is concern all through the Public Works Department group that things may get a
little worse in the future, just with higher gas prices and people trying to conserve and not
drive as much and use as many gallons. He stated it is a straight per gallon tax, so it does
not have any index or inflation or goes up by the cost of gas. He stated it has been a
concern and will remain a concern, as far as keeping up with the infrastructure
Public Works Director Freyermuth began with Street Inventory. He stated the City has
about 475 lane miles to maintain. He stated 675 lane miles are in the Mill and Overlay
Program and 70 lanes miles are considered in the chip/seal part of the program. In
addition, the infrastructure is made up of about 104 concrete inlays at intersections to
help prevent rutting that the City had problems with years ago and it has worked quite
well for them. He stated the City has about 500 miles of curb and gutter, 200 miles of
sidewalks, about 2,000 ADA ramps which is a major item to consider because now that
the City has had to do the detectable warning devices for the newest ADA requirements,
PAGE 22 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
those are around $1,000 to $1,500 per location when they have to do each time they do
work to a street; upgrade all the ADA ramps to the new standards. He stated that has
been a sizeable cost to the City over the past five to six years where that has been in
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the City had about 6,200 inlets and need to do
upgrades to those as they go through and do street improvements. He stated if there are
bad inlet tops or bad inlets that are caving in, they have to do maintenance work on those
just to keep things in shape as they go through with an overlay.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with the Street Infrastructure Maintenance
Program. He stated the City does contracted work, as well as work in-house. He stated
some of the items they contract is the mill and overlay work. They also concrete the
place and repair of concrete inlays and intersections, as well as repairs to concrete
pavement. He stated the City has very little concrete pavement on the surface anymore,
but still have quite a few locations that they have an overlay over concrete pavement and
there are still joint and concrete repairs to those roads that come up from time to time.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the City fog seals the shoulders on Shawnee
Mission Parkway, replaces sidewalks, ADA ramps, curb inlets, and installs pavement
markings all through contracted work each year.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated some of the major in-house items are the chip
seal program on unimproved collector and non-residential streets – the 70 lane miles
shown earlier. He stated puddle patching is done in-house. He stated full depth
pavement removal and replacement on all the streets, as well as blade patching on the
unimproved collector roads – basically the chip seal network is done in-house. He stated
blade patching is a little more cost effective way to do the patchwork on those roads. He
stated the City also does temporary repairs to damaged curb, gutter, and sidewalk
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with Street Resurfacing. The City has a
policy statement (PS-46) that they have probably had for 12 to 14 years now. He stated
the Annual Street Resurfacing Program is set up on a 10 year overlay cycle for arterial
streets and also for the improved collector street network. He stated it is 12 years for
unimproved collector streets, as well as residential streets, and downtown alleys. He
stated the City’s chip seal program is set up on a 5 year program, because that is basically
the industry standard and best management practice for chip seal surface and lasts
generally five years at best.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with the Curb, Gutter, and Sidewalk Repair
Policy (PS-11). He stated this basically indicates that the City will repair and replace
hazardous or deteriorated sections based on the availability of funds. He stated they have
a priority ranking system of sidewalks by Citizen Service Requests (CSRs) and curb and
gutter on the overlay streets so they take care of what is bad when they go in to do an
overlay on a street. It also includes curb and gutter from prior years if the budget does
PAGE 23 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
not allow them to complete all the curb and gutter and they will carry it over and pick it
up hopefully in the next year’s budget. He stated curb and gutter by CSRs is about fourth
down the list for what they are able to work with on priorities for that and the staff’s
recommend locations that they see around town that are needed for repairs.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the concern the staff has with this special fund
and funding for the Street Maintenance Program is that at the end of the year 2007,
backlog of miles of street was about 49 miles from the program requirements or about a
$4 million cost whre they were under-funded at the end of 2007. He stated at the end of
this year (2008) if they are able to maintain the contract already let that shows they would
spend their full budget that they have for the street maintenance work this year, they
would still add roughly 10 more miles to the backlog and were not able to do all that was
required this year with the current budget that requires the $1 million transfer from the
General Fund into this special fund. He stated that will make about a $5 million backlog
at the end of this year.
Councilmember Straub stated he remembers a discussion where they decided to delay
things. He asked if that is because they delayed it and didn’t they discuss pushing this
program back and doing 13 years instead of 12 years on certain streets.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied they had talked about some other options, but
did not make any changes to the mill and overlay portion. He stated they changed the
ship seal program a little and went from four to five years. He stated on the mill and
overlay program, it is actually at 11 ½ years for all the different streets; 10 years on
arterials and collectors and 12 years on residential.
Councilmember Straub stated there was discussion about pushing it back a year or two.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct, but no decision was ever made
to go forward with it. He stated they have maintained it at 11 ½ years at this point and
that would be an option to look at, however the concern is going to be that at some point
they are going to get to where the streets will not last that extra length of time. He stated
right now he believes they are in good shape with the 10 and 12 year cycle, but some
streets do not make it to 10 years, but then others will make more than 12 and last 13 to
14 years, but on an average the 11 ½ years seem to be working well.
Councilmember Straub stated if they had changed the cycle, they would not be so
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they actually did that in 2002 or 2003, where
they did make a change from everything being 10 years to the 10 and 12 year cycles and
that reduced almost all the backlog at that time. He stated that was a good thing to do at
Councilmember Kuhn asked when Public Works Director Freyermuth said that some of
the roads are definitely in need of repair at 10 years and some make it to 12 or 13 years,
PAGE 24 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
looking at the list of priority ranking systems for some of the curb, gutter, and sidewalk
repair, if the City will use that system with the streets as well. She asked if a street is on
the list and is hitting 10 ½ years and the staff goes out and looks at it and Streets 1
through 10 are on the list to be done that year, do they look at it and determine that the
street is looking pretty good and move it to the bottom of the list so that becomes one on
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered they do that , yes. He stated they look at all
the streets that come up on a review list at the beginning of each year to know what they
are going to put on and prioritize them.
Councilmember Kuhn stated when the staff gets that list, that is the direction it is coming
on and how it is based.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. He stated if a street does make
it to 13 or 14 years, it just keeps getting moved to the next year. He stated the streets
keep getting reviewed each year once they hit the number of years that is anticipated they
will need repair and look at some streets that do not even make it to the 10 or 12 year
Councilmember Pflumm asked if this includes the white topping at any of the
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the only thing they track as a backlog, is just
the main part of the street resurfacing – the main length of a mile section of street and
that is what they track in the budget numbers in this particular item, as far as direct
numbers. He stated they do an average amount of money for the overlays, striping, ADA
curb/ramp repairs and all the other miscellaneous items are just added in as an average of
what they spent over the past five years. He stated that holds pretty steady. He stated the
curb, gutter, and sidewalk replacements vary quite a bit because it depends on just which
roads they are doing and some of the roads do not have curb and gutter that they overlay,
so that number fluctuates quite a bit. He stated that is mainly just the overlay of all of the
Councilmember Kuhn asked, pertaining to Councilmember Straub’s question about the
13 year cycle, if they were to shift the policy statement from the 10 ½ to 12 year cycle
and went to 11 ½ to 13 years, what adjustment would that make the amount of backlog
that they would actually have and the amount of cost to get them caught back up.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he will address something similar here after a
few more slides and they can talk about what might be some other options at that time.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with some of the options being presented at
this point. One is to reduce the transfer in 2008 and 2009 to help maintain the General
Fund reserve goal of 35 percent. He stated to do this, they would increase their street
backlog list this year even more than they would be and also would do it for next year.
PAGE 25 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
He stated at some point they will start to not meet citizen expectations on their street
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated another option would be to continue with the
current program of funding levels. He stated once again, that would increase their street
backlog and at some point they will start really noticing a major difference in the
condition of the streets.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the third option would be to continue with the
current program and increase program funding through some kind of revenue source. He
stated the fourth option would be to change the program to include some alternative
resurfacing methods, but also will still need to increase program funding because even
using other treatment methods will not allow them to do what would be needed in the
timeframes with their current budgeted amounts.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with a couple alternative resurfacing
methods. One being slurry seal which is a thin surface application that basically fills and
seals small surface cracks and provides a new wearing surface. It slows or reverses
surface age hardening in the original road surface. The street remains closed to traffic
until the slurry seal has cured. He stated they would put it down as a moist mix on the
surface and it cures out into a hardened surface in about a 2 to 4 hour period.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated microsurfacing is another similar item to
consider. He stated it is a little more of a structural item and closer to an alternative to
the thin hotmix overlay currently being used. He stated the mat has structural strength
properties similar to hotmix. There is good long-term wear properties and macro-texture
for skid resistance and it also has a faster return of traffic than the slurry seal at about a 1
to 2 hour period.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if that was done at 75th Street.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied Lenexa did it on 75th Street between Quivira
on the other side. He stated Shawnee did some overlay and a couple years later they did
Councilmember Goode asked how long it takes slurry seal to cure.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it all depends on temperature and humidity,
but generally 1 to 2 hours on the microsurfacing. He stated with slurry seal it is closer to
a 4-hour cure before the moisture in it will evaporate and harden the surface.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated both slurry seal and microsurfacing are a very
thin coat – ¼ inch to 3/8th inch. He stated it is an application where it is mixed in a
machine mounted on a truck. He stated it goes down the road and lays a thin coat over
the lane. He stated the thickness is really based on the largest stone in the aggregate.
PAGE 26 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated basically the street looks a lot like an asphalt
overlaid street, but after looking closely one can still see the irregular surface somewhat
similar to a chip seal, but not quite to that extent. He stated chip seal is where they put
down the oil first and drop the stone on top, so there are definitely individual stones seen
on the surface. This material has some sand and smaller aggregate in it that fills in
between the stones, but not to the degree of an asphalt surface where it really looks
smooth when they are finished.
Councilmember Straub asked if the benefit is that it lasts longer, is less expensive, or
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it is less expensive as it goes down, but does
not last as long. He stated this will generally have a maximum 7 year life, but is about
one-third the cost.
Councilmember Straub stated if they do it three times, then they have 21 years versus 12
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct, 12 years to 13 or 14 years, but it
does go a little longer so overall long term 21 years down the road it will start showing
that they would have benefits.
Councilmember Straub asked if there are different types of surfaces.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated basically it is just the slurry seal and
Councilmember Straub asked out of these two, they would not do them both.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct – they would do one or the other.
He stated they could use them in different applications. He stated the slurry seal would
be more for residential streets – low traffic/low volume. He stated most of the cities he
has spoken with who use the slurry seal type system or micropaving, go with the
microsurfacing as it is just a little better, not a lot more cost, and they get a little more
benefit for the additional cost.
Councilmember Goode asked if the slurry seal is done right, would it almost look like a
sealed job. He asked if it will look smooth like a driveway seal.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated driveway seal will have a much smoother
surface at the finish, so this material is not that smooth.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated as far as cracks in the street are concerned, they
can not get it to such a smooth looking surface as is shown on the presentation slide.
PAGE 27 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it would not with just this treatment. He
stated generally the process would be to do crack sealing first, where they would go in
and crack seal all the cracks and then do this, as that is the only way they will eliminate
Councilmember Goode stated it becomes quite a job to take care of all the cracks.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it certainly does, as there is an expense
involved there that is really not figured into all the costs at this point, because it gets
fairly complicated when they do not know the amount of cracking on each street to know
how much crack seal they will need, but that will be one other item that would need to be
done – crack sealing first. He stated traffic has to stay off the mat while the
microsurfacing material cures.
Councilmember Pflumm asked who is using microsurfacing in this area.
Public Works Director Freyermuth presented a street resurfacing slide comparison of
Lenexa, Olathe, Overland Park, and Shawnee. He added budgets per lane mile. He
stated budgets per lane mile were about $4,500 for Olathe, Lenexa, and Shawnee. He
stated Overland Park is at about $6,000 per lane mile for their maintenance budget and
does use the microsurfacing on a seven year basis. He stated they do overlay treatment
once every 28 years, so they plan to do three seal coats every seven years and then a mill
and overlay. He stated at that point, it helps to level out the ruts and problems that the
slurry seal does not quite take care of when doing just that quarter inch surface.
Councilmember Pflumm asked what is the six year average.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied that is the average that Shawnee has been
getting on their chip seal.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if Overland Park is getting 8 years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes; it appears they are going eight years
and are doing the same as Shawnee, just mile roads to the south side of the City. He
stated the staff used to look at the City streets at four years on the chip seal just because
those were the roads that were County roads that were never really built with a good base
under them or good sub-grade. He stated they have always experienced in the past that it
just depends on the moisture and free style cycles through the winter, but a lot of them
have major problems just in three to four years. He stated their experience is that the
streets in Shawnee get close to six years on an average, but he is not sure that is the last
10 year or five year average.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it just depends on how good the soil is in the
area where they are maintaining streets, as to how well those will last once that chip seal
surface is put down. He stated soils are quite a bit different around the County.
PAGE 28 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Pflumm asked how long Overland Park and Lenexa have been doing it
and have they really gotten past a seven year cycle on any streets; are the streets really
lasting seven years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied he believes Lenexa has been using this system
close to seven years. He is pretty sure Overland Park has only changed over from chip
seal to slurry seal in the last three years. He stated they were still doing chip seal in their
residential neighborhoods up until about three or four years ago and then made the
Public Works Director Freyermuth believes Lenexa has been using this material about six
or seven years and does not think their experience has been real good at getting seven
years out of it, but a lot of that is because they were using slurry seal and not the
microsurfacing, but the chart shows they are using both. He thinks they will see better
results with the microsurfacing, but they used it on Pflumm Road and it did not appear
that it gave them more than four or five years from several years back when he knows
they did one section of that. He stated a lot of depends on other factors.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he knows Overland Park and Lenexa both
mentioned that snow plowing is hard on the slurry seal surfaces and does not do damage
to the asphalt, but on slurry seals it is a little harder and can tear some of it off. He stated
there are a lot of concerns in this area on just how close they can get to that seven years,
because of some of the other things that has to be done through the winter.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he believes Lenexa is using a rubberized blade
that actually touches the ground, so that helps a little on that issue, at least with some
plows that are doing areas where they have slurry seal. There are some techniques to try
to work around the issue, but there are other items to look into if Shawnee were to make a
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with Cost of Microsurfacing Versus
Overlay. He presented a chart showing over a 10 year period and what it would cost to
the do the Mill and Overlay Program laid out with the actual number of segments of
street coming online in the next 10 year period. He stated if they were to do
microsurfacing on all residentials, but still do mill and overlay on arterial and collector
roads, that cost would go down to $47,800,000. He stated if they were to do all
microsurfacing on everything, arterials, Shawnee Mission Parkway, and all streets, it
would be $40 million, so a savings of about $12 million or about a $1.2 million a year
average over the next 10 year period.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated if they do the same type of funding of the mill
and overlay program they have been doing in the past, which is about a $1 million
General Fund transfer, along with the Gasoline Tax, it adds up to around $31 million over
the next 10 year period, so this chart shows the difference in where the City is at on total
number of dollars that they are not able to fund the program.
PAGE 29 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Kuhn asked if that is $9 million short over 10 years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. He stated if they were doing all
microsurfacing it would be a $9 million shortage and if they stay with the program they
currently have, it is almost a $21 million shortfall.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with Budget Requirements for Resurfacing
Program. He stated this chart gets into the number of years. He stated the mill and
overlay with microsurfacing would be about an 8.2 year average when working with both
treatments – the average would come out to about 8.2 years and the microsurfacing
would be about 7 years, which would be what the staff would want to do for best
management practices with those treatments.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated as far as the projected 10 year budget is
concerned, with a $1 million transfer that has been done in the past and a $31 million
budget, to do the current program it is about a $21 million under-funded program and
roughly a 19 year cycle and what they would be doing if they were under-funded by that
much. He stated that is really not going to hold up.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated if the City were to get some additional revenue
streams, such as $500,000 from the County sales tax and was to be used in this special
fund, it was reduce it down to a $15 million shortfall in the program over 10 years, which
would equate to about a 16 year cycle between doing work on all streets within the City.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated looking at just the mill and overlay, as well as a
combination of some microsurfacing, it gets it down to about a $16 million difference
with the $1 million transfer and about $11 million if it is a $1.5 million transfer of
additional funds. He stated that would be a 15 year and 12.5 year cycle. He stated if they
were doing all microsurfacing, that would bring the City down to around a $9 million
shortfall, a 12.5 year cycle between microsurfacing on all streets, which of course, seven
is the maximum the City would be able to get out of that treatment, so it would still be
something where they would have to work with additional funding. If the City could get
the $1.5 million to it, it would be about a 9 year cycle, so they are getting a little closer,
but even that amount of funding still would not get it to where it balances out as it would
Finance Director Kidney presented Future Fund Requirements with General Fund
Transfers and County-wide Sales Tax. He stated this is coming back at a wrap-up session
at a future meeting and explained that these are two major items they will need to discuss
with the level of the General Fund transfers currently at $1 million and if they are looking
at $2 million to fully fund it. He thinks that would be really difficult to come up with, or
wonders if they need to look at a cut of that transfer and the impact it will have. They
will discuss that at the June wrap-up meeting, as well as the use of the County-wide sales
PAGE 30 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated if the County-wide sales tax were to pass, they are
looking at possibly $1.1 million to Shawnee and have to determine if they would use a
portion of that over and above the million dollar transfer or do a half million dollar
transfer and put the $500,000 in there, so there is a lot to consider and look at on that
funding. He stated any input from the Council would be most appreciated by City
Manager Gonzales over the next couple of weeks.
Finance Director Kidney stated the next three slides show the three scenarios discussed
earlier. He stated if they do the increased funding to meet the policy statement, the red
line (expenditures) increased from $4 million per year up to $5.5 million per year, which
is a pretty sizeable jump. The purple line is the General Fund transfer.
Finance Director Kidney stated the next slide would be capping it at $1 million (purple
line). He stated the expenditures stabilize at about $3.1 to $3.5 million if they would put
the other half a million from the sales tax in there.
Special Park and Recreation Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for parks and recreation
expenditures. He stated this funding is basically one-third of the City’s share of the
alcohol liquor tax. He stated by State law, the City puts one-third into this Special Park
and Recreation Fund to only be used for parks and recreation. The second one-third goes
into a special alcohol fund for alcohol problems and is used to fund the D.A.R.E. officers
and the last one-third goes into the General Fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated the staff is not projecting any increase in this fund. He
actually thinks it went up slightly. He stated the statute basically says the use of this
money may be expended only for the purchase, establishment, maintenance, or expansion
of park and recreational services, programs, or facilities.
Finance Director Kidney presented a snapshot of the 2008E and 2009 budgets and stated
the next two slides break in a little closer. They list the projects identified for 2008. He
stated the staff, working along with Parks and Recreation Director Holman, were able to
look at some of the things happening to the General Fund for the design of Shawnee
Town. He stated the Special Parks and Recreation Fund has been earmarked as the fund
to use to finance the improvements for the plan for Shawnee Town. He stated the staff
was able to find some design costs in the General Fund and Parks and Recreation
Director Holman was able to put these in this fund.
Finance Director Kidney noted the Gum Springs park improvements and Water Tower
Park improvements. He stated they will then get into the Shawnee Town improvement
expenditures. He stated there are a number of improvements earmarked for Shawnee
Town in 2009.
Shawnee Town Dr. Sullivan $88,000
Shawnee Town Barber Shop $35,000
PAGE 31 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Shawnee Town Yotz Typewriter Repair $35,000
Shawnee Town Ice House $41,000
Shawnee Town Market Shed $88,000
Shelter Improvements $15,000
Parks and Recreation Director Holman presented the plan for Shawnee Town. He stated
they are doing the Hart Home and Bender Barn. There are some out buildings that will
be moved over and those things will take place in 2008. He stated the strategic plan was
a wonderful process. He stated they have finished and continue to do some research and
now have the fun part of moving some dirt. He reported that the old East Pool is down.
There are still some pool baskets for sale.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated in 2009 they will do the market shed, ice
house, the barber shop, as well as the Yotz Typewriter Repair shop which is two stores
down. There is also Dr. Sullivan’s office which has a basement when they move the Hart
Home and can build Dr. Sullivan’s right over that space. He stated that is very important,
because one of the safety factors at Shawnee Town, with all the kid tours that go through
there, was that they did not have a safe place in case of an emergency and now they will
have the Hart Home and Dr. Sullivan’s for safety.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated they asked Charles Goslin to do a picture
for them and he jumped right on it and painted one. He stated the picture is fantastic and
is the true vision of what will be down the road at Shawnee Town after everything gets
built. He stated taking out the old pool is their farmstead and Phase I.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated the back half of the Hart Home is put on.
He stated they have the chicken coop, outhouse, and the garage for the Nash.
Councilmember Sandifer asked if the outhouse is useable.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman answered no. He continued with the smoke
house, Bender barn, and the market shed. He stated they will put the slogan on some
boards, History in the Making, and will have those for Shawnee Town and Old Shawnee
Days with the straw hat tours.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman presented a picture of the Ice House which was
right in front of Nancy’s Nitch. He stated it will help tremendously with events. It is not
a place that makes ice, but merely a locker that holds ice. He stated it is a 15 X 25 foot
building. He stated they will be able to bring in the truck, unload the ice for Old
Shawnee Days, the barbecue contest – any of the events and that is where the City will
Parks and Recreation Director Holman presented a picture of the old typewriter repair
office. He stated a lot of kids do not even know what a typewriter is – the old typewriters
with ribbons. He stated the building is still standing. He stated it used to be a realtor
office. He stated it will not look like the picture, but the staff will get it right. He stated
PAGE 32 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
the reason they are moving them over is because with the Turkey Creek plan, the City has
lost 20 feet of parkland on the east side of Shawnee Town through the storm drainage
work. He stated they will take the smaller buildings, because that will really be
landlocked on that side. He stated they could have the larger buildings where the larger
areas are if they went back to the original plan.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman presented the picture of the Bousman Barber
Shop. He presented a picture showing Dr. Sullivan’s office/home. He stated the house
will be flipped. He stated the doctor’s office was up front and the family lived in the
back. He stated it is nice to see the town develop and it is so much of the vision from the
group. He stated the City received $500,000 from the Deffenbaugh Foundation. The
staff has done a wonderful job.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman presented a photo of the market shed.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman continued with Future Fund Requirements and
noted the wonderful donation from the Deffenbaugh Foundation.
Councilmember Kuhn asked about the Deffenbaugh contribution and when that
contributed is made and funded. Will it come in and go to City funds to be distributed or
go to the Friends of Shawnee Town to be distributed for these things, so it does not
become part of the City’s general budget and can not be allocated to something else at a
City Manager Gonzales replied it is the understanding of staff, that they procure it to give
to the City and the staff talked with the Foundation about if they wanted a specific project
to be identified and funded from that money, or are they just giving the City $500,000
towards the plan and those things are still being discussed. She believes it is the
Foundation’s intent that the money be given to the City and would probably make it a
revenue to this fund, since they are identifying this fund as the Shawnee Town funding
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated to answer Councilmember Kuhn’s
question, he would think there would be some tags to that $500,000 that it is for the
creation of the town and not to be pulled out and used elsewhere.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that would be her only concern. She stated for future
Councils, as they all know they have the ability to reassess needs at whatever given time
and what past Councils have thought were the future uses and needs of something are not
always able to be honored by a current Council, she would hate for a gift that is
specifically earmarked for a benefit of that kind of a project at a later date to be
reassessed based on other future concerns and not maybe fulfill that hope.
City Manager Gonzales stated she is sure they will construct it in such a way if they have
a specific purpose for the money, they will put that in the legal documentation that comes
along with the gift.
PAGE 33 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated the next graph shows that the City did have a fund
balance that came up and that is what a lot of the improvements will do over the next
couple of years - spend those fund balances. He stated right now, Parks and Recreation
Director Holman does not really have anything identifying after 2013, so that is why the
fund balance shows it going up.
Special Alcohol Abuse Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to fund alcohol rehabilitation programs.
He stated he actually has a half of a percent revenue increase in this fund, so the 2009
number is off somewhat. He stated as they talked about this a couple of weeks ago, the
D.A.R.E. officer funding and the allocation of the human service organizations is funded
Finance Director Kidney stated one concern is that they do show a deficit in 2013 in this
fund, simply because a revenue is increasing a half of one percent and the expenditures
for the D.A.R.E. officers is approximately 4%. He stated this is one of those funds that
they will have to look at in the future.
Park and Recreation Land Use Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this is another fund used to fund park improvements. He
stated the funding is primarily from the impact fees collected through building permits
and this fund is also where they placed the City portion of County-wide sales tax for
schools from 2003 through 2008, so they had quite a bit of money going in and used all
of it either on the west aquatic land purchase or the east aquatic center. He stated in the
future, the parks fees are plugged in at $100,000 in 2008 and 2009 which is right at what
they are seeing, but $100,000 might actually be a reach this year looking at all the latest
Finance Director Kidney stated this is a pay-as-you-go fund. He stated if the money is
not there, then the expenditure is not there.
Finance Director Kidney pointed out the east aquatic improvement and stated even
though it is done, the City is still financing it as a cash pay-as-you-go out of the sales tax
that will be received at the end of the year. He stated they still see another $1.9 million
being funded going into that fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated the Sister Cities park improvements are finished, but it is
the same kind of thing where they are cash funding it in 2008. There are also some
repairs to the Tony Soetaert Aquatic Center for $450,000. He stated they found some
major repairs that need to take place at that aquatic center and rather than take it out of
the General Fund, they are able to take it out of the special revenue fund and found they
have money allocated specifically for park and aquatic-type improvements and did plug
in the improvements.
PAGE 34 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney continued with Future Fund Requirements. He stated they
definitely want to get going on a west community center concept plan, which is currently
plugged in at $100,000 for 2011, however he thinks they might be able to move that up.
City Manager Gonzales clarified that is just the concept plan – nothing else.
Finance Director Kidney stated the staff plugged in improvements to the east sand pit
park of $300,000 in 2012. He stated that is the Holiday Sand improvements east of K-7
Highway currently being built out. He stated the graph shows the large cash balance and
the 2006, 2007, and 2008 expenditures for the aquatic facilities. He stated they see the
sales tax ending at the end of 2008 (blue line).
Convention and Tourism Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for expenditures by the
Convention and Tourism promotion. He stated it is currently funded by a 5% transient
guest tax received by hotels. He stated they are currently projecting in 2008 $266,000.
By 2009, there is a projection of $273,000.
Finance Director Kidney presented Convention and Tourism Fund Expenditure
Highlights. There is Old Shawnee Days and in 2008 they had the Community Branding
project and Wonderscope. He stated the remaining of the funds will be split between the
Convention and Visitors Bureau and a transfer into the General Fund. Future Fund
Requirements include the impact of the new hotel. He stated the staff figured that the
impact would be about $100,000 starting in 2010, if it is built before 2010 which is the
Finance Director Kidney stated another thing that has been discussed is a possible rate
increase of a rate from 5% to 6%. He stated Charter Ordinance No. 18 does give the
authority of up to 6% to be approved by resolution by the City Council.
Finance Director Kidney presented a graph of other area transient guest tax rates, with
Overland Park in at 9%. He stated most of the other cities in the surrounding area are at
6% and Shawnee is up to 5%. He stated City Manager Gonzales will bring something
before the City Council in the wrap-up session.
Finance Director Kidney presented a spreadsheet showing a rate increase of 1%, which is
actually a 20% increase in revenue. He stated that would bring the Convention and
Visitor’s Bureau allocation up to $143,000 and transfer to the General Fund for $143,000
or flexibility to fund other things out of this fund.
Finance Director Kidney presented a chart showing in 2009 an increase from 5% to 6%
and it looks like about a $54,000 increase. He stated there is a $100,000 increase in 2010
for the impact of a new hotel. He stated that is looking down the road, but the staff hopes
they come in.
PAGE 35 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Parks and Pipes Fund
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund accounts for expenditures for parks and
stormwater improvements funded by a one-eighth cent sales tax approved in 2004 and
then renewed. He stated it will end in 2015. He stated basically they take half the funds
and put half into a stormwater project area and the other half into park improvements. He
stated they are looking at about $1.2 million. He stated he actually put a 2% sale tax
increase in the projections.
Finance Director Kidney presented a breakdown for revenues and expenditures for 2008E
and 2009, highlighting the proposed park improvements from the Parks and Pipes Fund
in 2008. He stated basically they will see half in 2008 and half in 2009. He stated it is
actually being worked on in 2008, but again for the purposes of cash flow, he split that
out in 2009. He stated they will basically be funding the project over two years, but
being built in 2008.
Finance Director Kidney stated the first phase of Clear Creek is also identified to be done
in 2008, as well as West Flanders at $206,000.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated Clear Creek Phase I was something around
$206,000 and was a grant written where the City received $800,000 and is an 80/20 split,
so they could be looking at around $800,000, but that has yet to be approved. He stated
that is from the golf course under K-7 Highway to Gamblin Park.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated Phase II is from Monticello to roughly
Woodland. He stated he wrote another grant and called KDOT who wanted the letters
out by this week, so either the City got it or not. He hopes they get it because it is
another $700,000 to $800,000 grant for the next year. He stated the state has to vote on it
and goes through the Highway Program. He stated the first phase was not that bad, as
there was $14 million for the entire state, but this year there was barely $6 million, so the
competition was large. He stated the grant ranked second in this metro area through the
NPO, which is through MARC, so he was very happy with the grant and project.
Councilmember Straub asked if they are waiting on Monticello Road and Woodland.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman answered yes. They will hopefully start next
Councilmember Straub asked about the other part to K-7 and if that was already
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated it has not been taken out to bid, because
they are working with some issues with KDOT. He stated they want to do a wall and
resolve some issues on design under the bridge.
PAGE 36 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Councilmember Kuhn asked about Phase II and if she is mixing that up with another
project, or is it the one that would have another access across Monticello for a school
crossing with the trail.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied they did not like that one and took it out.
He stated this one will go under Monticello and KDOT loves that. He stated KDOT does
not want any contact because of the four lanes.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if it will have access on the other side, so someone can get
in on Monticello on one side and out on another side.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman answered yes. He stated it hooks right in with
Gamblin Trail and will go under Monticello. He stated there is a trail that goes under
Monticello and hooks into Gamblin Park. He stated there is a little dog tail that goes up
to the sidewalk on the Monticello side. He stated in the neighborhood, they have it at
Woodstock and other access points. He stated all the kids can either come over and go to
the middle school and high school safely. He stated that was the big key – that thought.
He stated the walking school thought it was good. He stated the trail is going to be
almost six miles.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated the trail will go from Clear Creek Parkway
all the way to Clare and when Clear Creek Parkway gets done, the recreational trail will
be put in. He pointed out the Community Center land.
Councilmember Straub asked when they will build – when they widen Monticello.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied they are going to go ahead and put it in
and whenever Monticello happens, they will have to replace whatever they need to and
will have to shut the trail down for a period of time.
Councilmember Straub asked if they expect to do this phase before they widen
Parks and Recreation Director Holman answered probably. He stated the state does not
want the City to hold onto the money, so when they get it they need to do something with
Finance Director Kidney stated the other half of the Parks and Pipes Fund is the
stormwater portion. He noted the improvements they look to do in 2008 and 2009. He
stated Stormwater Manager Gregory has talked before the Council a couple of times on
Finance Director Kidney stated the projects include Johnson Drive to 59th West of Flint
and Brianwood North. He noted this is just the City portion and does not include the
SMAC portion, so it is an incredible amount of money they are able to leverage with
these dollars. There is Monticello Meadows. He stated 70th and Flint shows $244,000 in
PAGE 37 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
2009 and that is just the first phase of that project. He believes it is another $800,000 in
2010. They have 52nd Terrance and Barton to Nieman in 2009.
Finance Director Kidney stated the total resource for the life of the fund is projected at
$18.68 million. He stated the chart shows based on the past actual expenditures and then
projected for the life of this fund, the total funds to be expended by project. He stated
they actually do equal out – the same amount of expenditures. There is $9,340,000 for
Parks and $9,340,000 for stormwater improvements.
Finance Director Kidney stated the chart shows the cash flow. He stated if the money is
there, that is when they spend it so it is definitely a pay-as-you-go type fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated they have gone over this quite a few times. He stated the
fund balance received in this fund was due to taking ownership of the cemeteries. He
stated the grave lots and internment fees are plugged in at $30,000. He stated that he
basically matched up the expenditures, so the expenditures are $30,000 and revenue is
Finance Director Kidney stated the columbarium project began in 2007 and is continuing
on in 2008. The expenditures for that project is $188,000. He believes this is one of the
funds where they will be reviewing the fees out there and use of the reserves they are
using for the columbarium project. The chart is fairly straightforward, in that the
maintenance is around $30,000 of the actual cemetery and the large columbarium
Councilmember Kuhn asked Finance Director Kidney when he said $30,000 in revenue
and $30,000 in expenditures, does that include the sale of the individual resting places.
Finance Director Kidney replied with grave lots, Actual in 2007 was $26,000 and the
grave internment fee was $4,200 which combines to around $30,000. He stated that
number is hard to predict and does not include any increased sales for the columbarium.
He stated as that is in and things are up and running, they will project out those numbers.
Councilmember Kuhn asked Finance Director Kidney if based on the number of available
sites in the long term and at some point in time they run out of land, are there calculations
included to when they stop getting revenue coming in versus maintenance.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman responded that the staff has not laid out how many
they have left, because they have the other cemetery that does have quite a few plots left.
Councilmember Straub asked if they can stack them.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman answered, yes, but they wanted to wait to see how
the columbariums are going to work. He stated once they are built out, there will be three
PAGE 38 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
columbariums. He stated there are some areas along the east side where they could add
more, because they are popular, but it may not stay the trend.
Councilmember Kuhn stated sometimes they do not always look at things long-term or as
thoroughly as they should and that is how the Council sometimes gets themselves into
trouble with some of the budgets. She stated they do not always look at things at 5 years,
10 years, and more importantly at 50 years down the line and in 50 years if the City still
owns the cemetery, still has to do the maintenance, still has the grounds and still mows,
and at that point in time there is no longer revenue coming in from gravesites and the
columbariums are full, they need to make sure they have a funds balance or are paying
from the General Fund and she was not sure of the timeframe.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated that is why they went with this, hopefully
to boost some of the revenue, because after it is all done it is going to come from the
General Fund. He stated they are trying to spend the money to do the columbariums
which are what is popular right now and bring some more money back into this fund.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Finance Director Kidney what it costs the City to mow
Councilmember Straub stated $50,000 was the total for all of it.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated he thinks it is something between $20,000
and $25,000. He stated it is the highest cost because of all the weeding and head stones.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is $20,000 to $25,000, so that is what the $30,000 is
mostly used for.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated there is tree work and he just received a call
today that a head stone has fallen over. He stated the base concrete just goes sometimes
and they just fall over. He stated they have to maintain and keep them safe and there are
extra costs, so they just added in some extra costs with that type of work, along with the
Councilmember Distler asked if they would be ahead with Astroturf.
City Manager Gonzales answered not with how much money Overland Park paid for that
PAGE 39 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is funded through the Stormwater fee and are
looking at a 1% increase in revenue, mostly for some commercial impervious surface-
type things that they will be able to collect on. He stated Stormwater Manager Gregory
has a presentation to make on the stormwater utility. He presented the spreadsheet
showing the total expenditures of $1.9 million in 2009.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated he will do a brief overview of the program. He
stated last year, they did a revision of the goals for the program. The basic five goals
Address flood problems with drainage improvement projects
Regulate development in the floodplain
Perform routine maintenance on the City’s drainage system
Enhance water quality and maintain regulatory compliance with the City’s Kansas
Provide adequate program funding for implementation and operation
Stormwater Manager Gregory presented a graph showing the general division of where
the money comes from for the program. It shows the SMAC money (14% $494,000) that
in the 2009 budget is about $500,000. There is the Parks and Pipes money at 11% or
$383,000. The General Fund provides around $593,000 which pays for the existing
stormwater crews and different associated costs. The Stormwater Utility is about 55% of
all the activity provided by the utility fee. Included is $100,000 for the Stormwater
Engineer and Technician to show there are different places where the money goes. Total
for the 2009 budget is around $3.5 million.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated he re-divided and removed the SMAC money to
show the City Council how much money is spent on the different goals. He stated that
the Parks and Pipes funds match money for SMAC projects. He stated that the yellow
area is the money the City is spending in 2009 for small drainage projects paid for
through the utility fee. The staff figured about 7% of the fund is used for stormwater
quality issues and associated costs. He stated the majority of it, about 59%, is for the
stormwater maintenance crews; the new crew hired through the utility as well as the old
crews, equipment, and other costs. He stated there is 1% in there for floodplain
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated he divided up some of the program details for 2008
and 2009 just to show the Council some of the projects they are currently working on.
He stated they keep hearing about the Parks and Pipes projects. There is the Johnson
Drive project that will start right away. Monticello Meadows is already bid and
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated in 2009 they will have the 70th and Flint design
work and 52nd Terrace and Barton, which are both SMAC matching fund projects.
PAGE 40 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated the other projects (in yellow on the chart) for the
Stormwater Utility are smaller projects that did not qualify for SMAC funds. He stated
those are projects the staff has actually been working on to get done for a year and a half
and are still working on them. He stated hopefully they will be able to get the six
projects done in 2008.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated in 2009, they have a few new projects. He stated
the first project is being called the Justice Center Stormwater Quality Treatment BMP’s.
He stated SMAC has some R&D funding to do different things and they seem to be
receptive to the City proposing a project to them this year for funding in 2009 to retrofit
the detention basin out there and some other things and come up with a retrofit type of
project that would provide stormwater quality treatment for the Justice Center. He stated
the City would receive about $375,000 in SMAC money to do that and right now they are
just going to prepare a proposal to see if they like it and if they approve the funding for
2009. He stated that is a similar type project that is currently being discussed for
Shawnee Mission Northwest.
Councilmember Pflumm asked what is going on lately with that project.
Stormwater Manager Gregory replied the staff met with the consultants and the
environmental teachers. He stated they are coming up with an alternate design that has
yet to be shown to them. It is going to be less of a water quality treatment project than
originally proposed, but the City will still try to work with them. He stated they are not
sure what they will come up with and Shawnee Mission Northwest had a lot of ideas, as
well as some of the citizens, so their architects are working on it.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated in 2008, they will be putting in a fund transfer for
the Mill and Overlay Program - $309,000 in 2008 and $314,000 in 2009. He stated it is
on the budget previously shown by Finance Director Kidney, around $170,000+, plus
about $130,000 which was budgeted last year for miscellaneous curb repairs that they
came up with through their inspection program. He stated they have been inspecting
several thousand a year trying to make sure they are bringing the system up to full
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated the blue area on the chart is just a generalization of
some of the things being worked on by the staff. Earlier last year, they talked about the
post-construction stormwater quality ordinance, as well as erosion sediment control.
There are some funds in there to help pay for additional work they might need to keep up
with the demand through development, although development is low and they might not
even spend this money, so the staff wanted to be prepared just in case.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated there is money for inspections and contract street
PAGE 41 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated in 2008 they are still trying to get their backlog of
small projects done and in 2009 they will still be spending money on them. He stated in
2010, they are going to have a smaller amount of money put towards the small projects –
around $337,000. He thinks that will be a leveling out point and every year they will
have about that much in their current budget. As mentioned previously by Finance
Director Kidney, the amount of revenue the City receives does not really fluctuate very
much unless they get back to a large building boom, because they are based on the
impervious area in the City.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated the $337,000 can be used for small projects, but it
could also possibly be used for other items. He stated if they did something other than
just use it for small projects, they would then be somewhat changing their direction in
trying to solve small drainage projects, which there are still many to address. He stated
the staff just wanted to bring up that point. He stated there are other stormwater program
priorities that could be re-evaluated and that money could be used for some different
things. He stated the staff brainstormed for a while.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated some of the options to consider would include:
Absorbing the street sweeping personnel into the Stormwater Utility Fund
Funding a future street sweeper purchase through the Stormwater Utility Fund
Councilmember Pflumm asked why they would do that, because they originally started
the stormwater utility for the Federal regulations that the City has to meet.
Stormwater Manager Gregory replied they consider street sweeping to be a big part of the
City’s stormwater quality compliance. He stated cleaning all that sediment off the streets
keeps a lot of the pollutants and other things out of the streams. He stated they can show
that to the EPA and the State and tell them that Shawnee really is doing something and
this is it – they are sweeping the streets. He stated most of the pollutants that get into the
streams are really only carried there by dirt and eroded materials.
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated street sweeping could be added into the Stormwater
Utility funds from the General Fund.
Adding more personnel that could be inspectors instead of using consultants and
other types of contractors
Review NPDES Phase II activities and maintenance inspection cycles – make it a
30 year cycle to go through the City’s 7,000 inlets instead of a 10 year cycle that
they have now
Stormwater Manager Gregory stated future stormwater program issues include:
Prioritizing small drainage project selection
Increasing the Stormwater Utility fee which would allow:
a. Moving other stormwater personnel into using SWU funding
PAGE 42 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
b. Funding more capital drainage improvement projects
Stormwater Manager Gregory presented a chart showing the revenues and expenditures
leveling out in the next years and retaining a fund balance of around $500,000.
Public Safety Sales Tax
Finance Director Kidney stated this fund is used to account for the public safety
expenditures. He stated basically it is the one-eighth cent sales tax that was approved in
2004. He stated currently it is entirely earmarked towards the repayment of the bond that
was issued for the Justice Center and Fire Station No. 72.
Finance Director Kidney stated he has a 1.7% increase in sales and use taxes. He stated
he is combining sales and use taxes. He thinks he pointed out at an earlier meeting that
the Use Tax in the City is actually dropping or staying the same. He stated even though
he is projecting a 2% sales tax increase, because the Use Tax is staying low, it is actually
keeping the rest of it down.
Finance Director Kidney stated one thing they will see in 2008 is a $3 million capital
expenditure. He stated the City issued $18 million in bonds for the $22 million project.
He stated the idea was that they would use the $3 million on hand and is where they see
that $3 million. He stated those are the last dollars they will spend on the project. He
stated they will spend all the bond proceeds first and then whatever is left will come out
of the cash on hand in the Capital and Public Safety Sales Tax. He stated actually the
interest of $76,000 will hopefully be a little more, because they have not reached that $3
million portion yet and have not started spending money out of this and are still spending
money out of the debt fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is basically the idea of this fund, long term to make
the bond payments, is that the revenue is not what he originally projected on sales, as he
originally projected a 4% sales tax increase and the Use Tax staying the same and
obviously they are not seeing that. He stated this time next year they will have to take a
look and make sure things are okay with this fund. He stated obviously they have the
Debt Service Fund that would take over any kind of payment that they would need in the
fund, but the bonds are set and this is the fund that the City is paying the bonds out of.
Finance Director Kidney stated that concludes the presentation.
Finance Director Kidney stated the next budget meeting will be Tuesday, June 3, 2008 at
the Finance and Administration Committee meeting. It will cover the Debt Service Fund
Program and the CIP. City Engineer Wesselschmidt will go over the CIP for the next
couple of years.
City Manager Gonzales asked the committee if they had any feedback on any of the
issues discussed this evening, specifically the Mill and Overlay Program. She asked for
thoughts on the Convention and Visitors tax increase and if that is something the Council
PAGE 43 PUBLIC WORKS AND SAFETY COMMITTEE MINUTES MAY 20, 2008
would like to look at and move ahead with. She stated they will talk further about both of
those items in the future and the staff will come back with their recommendations.
Councilmember Goode stated the staff and City Manager Gonzales did a good job in
preparing this evening’s presentation. He stated their his preparation made it a lot easier
for him to understand this time around.
Councilmember Kuhn, seconded by Councilmember Distler, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 4-0, and the meeting adjourned at 9:31 p.m.
Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary
Vicki Charlesworth, City Clerk