Get documents about "Storobin Testimony 2
Document Sample
140
1 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
2 COUNTY OF KINGS - CIVIL TERM- PART 41
3 ----------------------------------------------X
4 SIMCHA FELDER,
5 Petitioner-Candidate-Aggrieved,
6
7 -against- Index Number:
8 700013/12
9
10 BOARD OF ELECTIONS IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK
11 and DAVID STOROBIN,
12 Respondents.
13 ----------------------------------------------X
14 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF KINGS - CIVIL TERM- PART 41
15 ----------------------------------------------X
DAVID STOROBIN, in the Matter of the Application of as a
16 candidate for the Republican Party Nomination/Designation for
the Public Office of the State Senator from the 17th Senate
17 District, New York State, within the City of New York,
County of Kings,
18 Petitioner,
19 -against- Index Number:
700017/12
20
BOARD OF ELECTIONS IN THE CITY OF NEW YORK,
21 THEODOR DITCHEK, as objector(s) seeking an order,
pursuant to the Election Law declaring valid the petition
22 designating the aforesaid named candidate(s) for the
aforesaid described public offices and/or party positions and
23 ordering the Board of Elections to place the name of said
petitioner candidate upon the ballot to be used at the primary
24 election of the Republican Party to be held on September 13,
2012,
25 Respondents.
----------------------------------------------X
dmgm
141
1 ORAL ARGUMENT ON MOTION
(Excerpt)
2
360 Adams Street
3 Brooklyn, New York
4 August 8, 2012
5
B E F O R E:
6
HONORABLE LARRY D. MARTIN,
7 Justice.
A P P E A R A N C E S:
8
KANTOR, DAVIDOFF, WOLFE, MANDELKER,
9 TWOMEY & GALLANTY, P.C.
Attorneys for Petitioner/Respondent
10 Theodor Ditchek
51 East 42nd Street
11 New York, New York 10017
BY: LAWRENCE A. MANDELKER, ESQ.
12 BY: CARRIE ANDERER, ESQ., of Counsel
13
CONDE & GLASER, LLP
14 Attorneys for Respondent/Petitioner David Storobin
395 Broadway, Suite 801
15 New York, New York 10007
BY: EZRA B. GLASER, ESQ.
16
17 DOREEN M. GAETA-MILELLA
Senior Court Reporter
18
19 (In open court.)
20
21 (The following is an excerpt of the proceedings.)
22
23 THE COURT: On the record.
24 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, with regard to the events
25 of the day, yesterday I was back in my office for maybe
dmgm
142
1 five minutes. There was already a newspaper column that
2 was reporting this in the Daily News.
3 THE COURT: I didn't see it.
4 MR. GLASER: Well, it involved comments that were
5 made by Mr. Murray O'Brien and there was a court reporter
6 in the courtroom during the day. To me, the article
7 contained characterizations that were completely --
8 THE COURT: You have to take that up with the
9 Daily News.
10 What do you want me to do about it?
11 MR. GLASER: I tell you what I want you to do
12 about it. I want the Simcha Felder campaign --
13 THE COURT: Is that the Daily News man?
14 PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE: That's me.
15 MR. GLASER: I want Mr. Murray O'Brien to be on
16 notice; they can bring these pleadings, as frivolous as
17 they are, and your Honor ruled that they should go ahead.
18 That's what he's doing.
19 I want them to be on notice that we will ask for
20 costs and sanctions.
21 THE COURT: We will we cross that bridge if and
22 when we come to it. But we will need to proceed.
23 MR. GLASER: I guess you are not going to let me
24 make my commentary, which as to the sleaziness with Mr.
25 Murray O'Brien and with the reporter himself with the
dmgm
143
1 characterization.
2 THE COURT: Not at this time.
3 MR. GLASER: Okay, but I'm assuming you had
4 evidence.
5 THE COURT: Senator.
6 (Whereupon, the witness resumed the witness
7 stand.)
8 THE CLERK: Just restate your name for the record?
9 THE WITNESS: David Storobin.
10 THE CLERK: Thank you.
11 Have a seat. You are reminded you are still under
12 oath.
13 THE COURT: Remember the advice that I gave you
14 yesterday, Senator, about responding to the question that's
15 posed to you?
16 THE WITNESS: Yes. I will do my best. I promise.
17 THE COURT: Good. Let's proceed.
18 MR. MANDELKER: Your Honor, may we have petition
19 volume 199 placed before the witness?
20 THE COURT OFFICER: Edition 199.
21 MR. MANDELKER: Would you mind placing it before
22 the witness.
23 THE COURT OFFICER: Okay.
24 (Handing.)
25 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 144
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. MANDELKER:
3 Q Mr. Storobin, Senator Storobin, would you be kind
4 enough to turn to pages 47 and 23 in that volume. Because
5 that's where we left off yesterday.
6 And if you wouldn't mind, just hand the petition open
7 to sheet 47 to the Judge, just so he can look at it.
8 A (Complying.)
9 THE COURT: Okay.
10 Q Thank you.
11 Now, Senator Storobin, I think the last question I
12 asked you was did you recall why you did not obtain any more
13 signatures on sheet number 47. And I think your answer was, and
14 I'm paraphrasing it, could be a million things.
15 Do you recall that? That's where I want to pick up.
16 MR. GLASER: I'm going to object, and I ask that
17 either a question be asked of Mr. Storobin or --
18 THE COURT: Is there a question?
19 MR. MANDELKER: No, I'm just placing him where I
20 am because I'm focussing his mind where we left off
21 yesterday.
22 THE COURT: All right. We will permit it.
23 Let's continue.
24 MR. MANDELKER: Okay.
25 Q So, do you recall if you obtained any other signatures
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 145
1 on July 7th, as you sit here today, do you recall if you
2 obtained any other signatures on July 6, 2012?
3 A Besides what's on pages 23 and 47?
4 Q Yes.
5 A I believe so.
6 Q Okay.
7 MR. MANDELKER: And can we have volume 201?
8 (Handing.)
9 Q And if you can open it to sheet number 30, sir?
10 A (Complying.)
11 I see it.
12 Q Okay.
13 And could you just show the sheet to the Court?
14 A (Complying.)
15 THE COURT: Okay.
16 Q Is that your signature, sir, on the lower-right portion
17 of the witness statement?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 MR. GLASER: Where?
20 MR. MANDELKER: Lower right-hand portion of the
21 witness statement.
22 A Yes, it is.
23 MR. GLASER: Oh.
24 Q And you see that your name is written in the upper
25 left-hand portion of the witness statement?
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 146
1 Please wait for the question.
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you write that in?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did you see that an address was written in the witness
6 statement; is that your handwriting?
7 A Yes, it is.
8 Q And it says that there's one signature, did you write
9 in number one in there, in the witness statement?
10 A Yes, I did.
11 Q And you see there is a date in the lower-left hand
12 portion of the witness statement, says July 6th; do you see
13 that, sir?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did you write that?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Okay.
18 Now, let's go to where the significant is. There's one
19 signature on the sheet, correct?
20 A Yes, it is.
21 Q And you see there's a date 7/6 that's handwritten in?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is that your handwriting?
24 A I believe so.
25 Q Okay.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 147
1 And to you see there is a residence address?
2 A I see that.
3 Q Is that your handwriting?
4 A I believe so, yes.
5 Q Could you read it to me because I have difficulty
6 understanding you.
7 A I believe it's 1576 Ocean Avenue, Apartment 1F,
8 Brooklyn, New York 1123.
9 MR. GLASER: Are we talking about the original
10 address or the one that was crossed off?
11 THE WITNESS: Well, what was written there, that's
12 the address that I'm reading.
13 Q Okay.
14 Was there another address on there first?
15 A Um, there looks like something was written there and
16 then it was crossed off and something else was written.
17 Q But you wrote the address that's there, 15 -- is it,
18 did you say 76?
19 MR. GLASER: Objection. There's two addresses
20 there.
21 THE COURT: Which address are you referring to?
22 THE WITNESS: I'm talking about the one you can
23 actually see.
24 MR. MANDELKER: The one that you can actually see.
25 That's the one.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 148
1 Q And that's your handwriting?
2 A It is.
3 Q Did you cross-off, you see there's items crossed-off
4 and obliterated just to the left of the address?
5 A I see there's something crossed-off.
6 Q Did you do that, sir?
7 A It looks it, yes.
8 Q Why did you do that?
9 A Okay.
10 I, when we went to this person, that person signed,
11 they didn't put down, they didn't put down -- let me just
12 explain.
13 Q Yes. Go ahead.
14 A That person didn't put down their name.
15 Normally, if I didn't see the name, at some point I
16 would fill in the name.
17 In this case, it doesn't look like anything that you
18 could actually respond. The, except for the fact that the first
19 letter looks like something of an H and then like scribble, you
20 can't really see.
21 So I want to see who it was. I saw that it was, that
22 there's a person by the name of Hilda Danger, also starts with
23 an H, who lives at, on the same block where I went door to door.
24 I looked her address, and I saw that she lived at 1576.
25 And I figured that must be the person, because she is in
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 149
1 Apartment 1F, just as the address here wrote, it is Apartment 1F
2 in a building on the same block where I went. It looks like it
3 begins with an H.
4 Q Senator Storobin, with the Court's permission, I'm
5 going to ask the court reporter to read back the question that I
6 asked you.
7 And with the Court's permission, I'm going to ask you
8 if you would focus on that and answer that question, and get to
9 your testimony in a second.
10 MR. GLASER: He specifically asked him why he did
11 it, and that's why he answered.
12 It was completely referable to the question.
13 There's nothing wrong with the answer.
14 It was, completely addressed Mr. Mandelker's
15 question, and I object to any --
16 THE COURT: Read back, if you would.
17 (Whereupon, the record was read back by the court
18 reporter.)
19 THE COURT: Do you have a question?
20 MR. MANDELKER: Yes.
21 THE COURT: Pose it.
22 Q Senator, do you see on this, there's an address that
23 you handwrote?
24 A Yes.
25 Q In the box that says residence is material that you
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 150
1 said looks obliterated, and you testified you did that?
2 A Okay.
3 Q Why did you obliterate whatever it was that you
4 obliterated in the residence box?
5 A Because I thought this was the person Hilda Danger who
6 left the signature. And when I compared that to my walk list,
7 that was the person's name, that was the address of that person.
8 And having been to this building, I figured, okay, this has got
9 to be the address. So that's why.
10 Sometimes you make a mistake. Like I did one time, it
11 looked like with the date. Or you could make a mistake with
12 anything.
13 I'm sure you've done the same thing probably in the
14 notes that you have right now on you.
15 Q Do you know what was written in the residence box that
16 you obliterated?
17 A I know now.
18 Q I'm sorry?
19 A Now, I do.
20 Q What was in that box that you obliterated?
21 A It is the address of the building right next to 1576.
22 Q Okay.
23 So, and what was that building?
24 A Also --
25 Q What was that building?
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 151
1 A I don't know the exact building number, but it is right
2 next, it's on the same block, Ocean Avenue, Apartment F.
3 Everything else is the same.
4 Q Okay.
5 I'm very interested, because you seem to remember a lot
6 about this signature.
7 MR. GLASER: Objection to the characterization.
8 I object.
9 THE COURT: It's not necessary.
10 Q Okay.
11 If you go back to sheet 47 in volume 199, could you
12 look at that sheet?
13 A 47.
14 Q 47 in volume 199?
15 A Yes.
16 Q You see there are four blank lines for people to sign?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And you see that there are signatures at 1947 Ocean
19 Avenue, 1925 Ocean Avenue, 1903 Ocean Avenue on that sheet; do
20 you see that?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And 1576 Ocean Avenue, I assume is quite nearby?
23 A Ah, it's got to be quite nearby because 15 and 19s, I
24 assume, are four blocks away.
25 Q So can you tell me, sir, why you obtained the signature
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 152
1 that appears on sheet 30 on that sheet rather than just
2 obtaining it in one of the blank spaces on sheet 47?
3 A Because I did it at different times of that day with
4 different people.
5 When I went the second time, I just called a friend of
6 mine, Eugene, and he just came back from work at this point.
7 And he said that he's going out to collect signatures for me.
8 And so I decide that I'm going to join him. And when I
9 joined him, he had his own petitions or something else.
10 I, at that point, I didn't have anything on my, walk
11 lists or petitions, pens, anything. Maybe had a pen or
12 something, but not much of anything else.
13 The other petitions were done at a different time with
14 a different volunteer with a different walk list. A different
15 everything.
16 Q Sir, do you remember testifying here yesterday?
17 A Yes, I do.
18 Q And do you remember being asked the following question
19 and giving the following answer, and I'm referring to page 63 of
20 the transcript, starting at line 25? Would the Court like a
21 copy?
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 MR. MANDELKER: Give a copy of transcript.
24 (Handing.)
25 THE COURT: I have a copy.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 153
1 What page?
2 MR. MANDELKER: 63. Last line, 25.
3 THE COURT: I don't have a copy.
4 MR. MANDELKER: In this one, it will be 137,
5 again, line 25:
6 "QUESTION: --"
7 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, objection.
8 He's not testifying at a different trial or a
9 different time, at a different -- I mean, he happens to
10 have been able to, because this other campaign seems to be
11 ordering daily copy transcript in front of him.
12 It is not a different deposition, it is not a
13 different trial. The testimony speaks for itself.
14 If he is trying to impeach on the same testimony,
15 I don't think that's a valid way of using prior testimony.
16 It is not prior testimony for that purpose.
17 It is not of a different deposition. It is not a
18 different trial. It is yesterday. It is while he's on the
19 stand.
20 So, your Honor, again, again, the defendants are
21 just using unlimited resources that they want to pour into
22 this election law trial to just use daily copy to impeach.
23 I don't think that's a valid way of using it.
24 THE COURT: I disagree. Let's continue.
25 Q "QUESTION: So, sir, do you remember why you
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 154
1 didn't get any more signatures on this page; is that
2 because you just stopped, were you done and you were
3 finished petitioning for the day?
4 "ANSWER: I have no idea. It could be a million
5 reasons. I decided to go take a break because I needed
6 to go do something else. Could be taking a break.
7 Could be end of the day. If could be a million
8 different reasons. Why do you stop for the rest of the
9 day or for part of the day?
10 "QUESTION: --"
11 MR. GLASER: Objection.
12 It is contradictory, your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Continue.
14 Q "QUESTION: Stop getting signatures that could be
15 placed on a sheet with that date, 7/6 would be
16 appropriate --
17 "Objection.
18 "QUESTION: Did you get any other signatures on
19 7/6?
20 "Objection.
21 "THE COURT: Any objection, Mr. Glaser?
22 "Your Honor, he answered several times.
23 "THE COURT: Why would it be a million reasons?
24 "MR. GLASER: Yes, is the answer.
25 "THE COURT: Is the answer?
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 155
1 "MR. GLASER: Yes. Okay. Time to break."
2 Do you remember being asked those questions and
3 giving those answers?
4 MR. GLASER: Objection.
5 THE COURT: Overruled.
6 A Yes.
7 Q So when is it that you first recollect that you stopped
8 petitioning on 7/6, July 6th, and that you went with another
9 volunteer and came back to this building to obtain this
10 signature? When did that recollection come to you?
11 THE COURT: The question is confusing.
12 Restate it.
13 Q Okay.
14 Sir, when did you first remember?
15 MR. GLASER: Objection.
16 Q Can I finish the question?
17 THE COURT: Can you answer it?
18 THE WITNESS: I can answer it.
19 THE COURT: That's fine.
20 MR. GLASER: Overruled?
21 You know, I have an objection, okay?
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 A The answer is that for this particular petition,
24 because it was in the news, it was something that we
25 investigated. It was something that once you start paying
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 156
1 attention to a particular signature or a particular event and
2 you start to investigating, start figuring out what happens,
3 it's different than if you just have a piece of paper put in
4 front of your case and then you are like, okay, I don't even
5 know where that is.
6 So, obviously, when I looked at this, it's one thing;
7 and when I'm looking at something else, I'm looking at random
8 names of people who speak and buildings and everything else, I
9 don't recollect who these -- it is very different than a
10 signature that was investigated.
11 I didn't want to say investigated, but discussed in the
12 press, among other places.
13 Q So when was the first time you, to use your word,
14 investigated that signature?
15 A Ah.
16 Q In the circumstances?
17 A The first time that we looked into this signature is
18 when I got a, when I got and e-mail from a newspaper saying
19 there was an issue with the signature.
20 Q When was that, sir?
21 A 10 days ago. Five days ago. Something like that.
22 Around, around there.
23 Q Was this after this proceeding had been commenced?
24 A Um, yeah.
25 Q Okay.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 157
1 And can you tell me what steps you took to investigate?
2 A What steps we took?
3 Q What steps you took?
4 A Okay, well, we went to that same address that's listed
5 there. We went to other apartments in the building on the same
6 floor to see if there's a mistake with what the
7 what-you-ma-call-it, with the apartment number.
8 And we went to apartment 1F on the same building block
9 to see if an address was messed up. Because sometimes you walk
10 into the building and you just walk into the wrong building.
11 Q What was the step, what part of the investigation dealt
12 with the fact that you finished petitioning with the signatures
13 that are on sheet number 47 of volume 199 and you went back to
14 this building, 1976 Ocean Avenue, later that day with a
15 different volunteer? What part of the investigation related to
16 that part of your testimony?
17 MR. GLASER: Objection.
18 There was never any testimony with regard to that
19 sheet, with regard to that sheet he is explaining --
20 THE COURT: The question is confusing.
21 MR. MANDELKER: Okay.
22 Q You testified earlier that when you finished --
23 MR. GLASER: Objection.
24 As to what he testified to earlier.
25 THE COURT: You have a question?
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 158
1 MR. MANDELKER: Yes.
2 Q You testified earlier that when you finished obtaining
3 the signatures on page 47, you stopped petitioning; and, then,
4 subsequently you went out with another volunteer and you went to
5 1976 Ocean Avenue and obtained the signature that appears on
6 sheet 30 of volume 201; correct?
7 A Yes.
8 MR. GLASER: Objection.
9 THE COURT: Approach.
10 MR. GLASER: Objection.
11 THE COURT: Approach.
12 (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the
13 record.).
14 THE CLERK: Come to order. Remain seat.
15 Q So, sir, did you witness the signature that was placed
16 on sheet 30 -- withdrawn.
17 The signature that was placed on line one of sheet 30
18 of volume 201, was that placed on there in your presence?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And where was the signer standing when the sheet, the
21 signature was placed on that sheet?
22 A I was, in relation to me, I was right outside the
23 person's door.
24 The person was inside their apartment, took a pen and
25 signed it on the table that's right on the, like the little
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 159
1 lobby area or hallway.
2 Q And you could see her?
3 A Oh, yeah.
4 Q And what apartment, when you were standing right
5 outside?
6 A 1F.
7 Q And how did you know to go to Apartment 1F?
8 A Um, because I had, well, the person that I was, who was
9 walking with, who had the walking list, he had this apartment in
10 this building and said we walk into this place and knock on the
11 door. And then that's how I knew this was the place to be.
12 Q And when you were in building, you knew it was 1976
13 Ocean Avenue, correct?
14 MR. GLASER: Objection.
15 A I followed the person with whom I was --
16 Q But you knew what building you were inside of, didn't
17 you?
18 A Um, I remember what building. At the time, I knew what
19 building I was in.
20 Q Okay.
21 A Whatever building it was, at the time I remember, yes.
22 Q So the person signed sheet number one, and were you
23 able after the person signed --
24 A Actually, can I say at the time that I doubt it was the
25 wrong building. At the time that I doubt that, I thought it was
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 160
1 1576. Because it turned out to have been the wrong address
2 written down. The new one that was written down.
3 Q I'm not sure that I follow you, but we'll get to it.
4 A Okay.
5 Q We'll get there.
6 After line one was signed, was the sheet handed back?
7 A Either to myself or to the person with me, but probably
8 to myself.
9 Q Okay.
10 And were you able to read the signature?
11 A I just saw that there was a signature. A lot of times
12 you can read the signatures, and a lot of times you cannot read
13 the signature.
14 Q Can you see, there's a blank under the signature? You
15 see that?
16 A Yes, I do.
17 Q And there's a name printed in that blank?
18 A I do.
19 Q Okay.
20 And you are aware, were you not, that the reason for
21 that blank is to print the name of a signer, if you want? You
22 understood that?
23 A No. That was the same line under the date, if you look
24 at it. So you don't have to print anything under there, unless
25 you want to.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 161
1 Q Correct. That's what I said.
2 A Or you could put down last name, top first name. Like
3 someone yesterday that we discussed.
4 Q Okay.
5 We're talking about this signature, who wrote in Hilda
6 Danger?
7 A I wrote in Hilda Danger.
8 Q When did you write that in?
9 A Later that day, when I was witnessing the signatures.
10 Q Was there a reason that you didn't write it in right
11 there on the spot?
12 A A lot of times I didn't because especially if it was
13 the end of the day or it was just busy, not busy but whatever, a
14 lot of times you just did it.
15 Q Were you planning on getting more signatures on the
16 sheet and you were hurrying on to the next appointment?
17 A We were in the building, so we were knocking on what
18 apartments there were in this building.
19 Q And your testimony was that you had a signature,
20 couldn't read it the way this person signed and you did not take
21 the time at that point in time just to print the name of the
22 person who you just witnessed get the signature?
23 MR. GLASER: Objection.
24 THE COURT: What's the objection?
25 MR. GLASER: He's characterizing his testimony the
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 162
1 way he wants to characterize it.
2 THE COURT: You remember that conversation we just
3 had.
4 MR. GLASER: His testimony should be --
5 THE COURT: Playing to the Court. I understand
6 your point. Now, let's move on.
7 No, no. Next question.
8 Q So, and at what point in time did you notice that the
9 resident address was initially incorrect?
10 A Well, with, when I looked to see who it was, to put in
11 the, that I, when I reviewed it, my own signatures later on at
12 the end of day, I noticed that somebody didn't put down that you
13 can't really tell. So I suggested, Let's see who that.
14 Because, you know, these are people that I never seen
15 before. So how would I know who they are?
16 So I looked to see who was there. I saw that there's a
17 name that look like a first letter is an H. That has more or
18 less the same number of, if you look at how it's written up, you
19 can't really see; but the number of letters is more or less the
20 same as Danger. It is Apartment 12, it is on a building on that
21 block.
22 So it seems logical to me this is the person. And
23 since there's no one else there, then this is the person, and we
24 must've walked into the wrong building, which has happened
25 before.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 163
1 Q And when you were --
2 A Not the wrong building. Written down the wrong
3 building.
4 Q When you did this process of reviewing, where was that
5 done?
6 A Where was that done?
7 Q Yeah.
8 A I believe it was over the, back in my apartment.
9 Q Back in your apartment?
10 A I'm not sure. It could be either apartment or office
11 somewhere. But it was, it was at some point later and I don't
12 remember.
13 Q Did you have a copy of the walking-around list that had
14 the name of the voters you were going to solicit on July 6th?
15 MR. GLASER: Your Honor.
16 A At what point are you?
17 Q At the point that you took the signature?
18 A Like I said, there was a person with whom I was walking
19 who had the walking list. I followed him.
20 At the end of the day, when I was --
21 THE COURT: Did you have the list? Do you
22 remember? The question is asked. Answer it.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 Yes.
25 Q And --
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 164
1 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, I know that it's to --
2 not as to this question but there are times, there were
3 times in the last four questions where Mr. Storobin, I
4 don't believe, finished his question.
5 THE COURT: Okay.
6 Allow him to.
7 MR. MANDELKER: Of course. Thank you.
8 THE COURT: And let's keep them brief, if
9 possible.
10 THE WITNESS: Okay.
11 Q And, Senator, after you obtained signatures, do you
12 know if you or the person that was with you checked the name off
13 the walking-list so you know this is not someone that you have
14 to approach again?
15 A We wouldn't normally check, or at least myself
16 personally check-off apartment numbers or buildings. Because
17 you would just walk in a building; so from bottom to top or from
18 top to bottom, then you would know.
19 You just, in the sixth floor, the fourth floor or the
20 first floor, second, third. So you just know, just because you
21 finished the floor.
22 Q So this was your district, correct; and, you are
23 familiar with the buildings in it?
24 A It is my district. It is, pretty much has 20,000
25 people. So I'm not familiar with every single building.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 165
1 Q And, again, I ask you when you went to collect this
2 signature, as you sit here today, do you remember what building
3 you were in to collect the signature that appears on line one,
4 sheet 30, volume 201?
5 A I do visually.
6 I don't remember the buildings number right now. I
7 just don't recall it.
8 I can, if I were there, I would point out the building.
9 I know the building right now. I know the building by
10 sight right now. But I just don't remember the address.
11 Q So now, let's go back to the subscriber witness
12 statement, because we discussed the subscriber witness statement
13 on other, on other sheets and you understood this was the same
14 subscriber witness statement that appears on the other sheets,
15 correct?
16 A Yeah.
17 Q And you understand that you are saying equivalent to an
18 affidavit, that the person signed in your presence and
19 identified himself or herself to you, correct? That's what you
20 were saying you understood that by signing this sheet?
21 A That's right.
22 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, note my objection.
23 Do we need to go over this again?
24 THE COURT: Approach.
25 (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 166
1 record.)
2 MR. MANDELKER: Can I have just a minute, your
3 Honor?
4 I'm going to try to further shorten the
5 examination.
6 THE COURT: That would be appreciated.
7 (Pause in proceedings.)
8 Q Could you look at sheet number 40 in volume 201?
9 A In volume 201?
10 Q 201, sir.
11 And sheet 28 in volume 201.
12 A 28 and 40?
13 Q Yes, 28 and 40.
14 MR. GLASER: I'm sorry, I lost you.
15 MR. MANDELKER: 28 and 40 in volume 201.
16 A Yes, I do see it.
17 Q Okay.
18 An I'll try to shorten this.
19 Were you the describing witness on both sheets?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And did you see the people who signed those sheets, did
22 they sign in your presence?
23 A Again, my procedure was the same every time, to make
24 sure that they signed in, means I don't remember these
25 particular people. But if they signed, then they signed in my
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 167
1 presence.
2 Q I just want to go back for one final question on a
3 previous sheet, number 30.
4 Am I correct that initially you didn't remember the
5 circumstances concerning obtaining the signature on line 30, it
6 was only after you reviewed it and were reminded that you were
7 able to remember the circumstances; is that correct?
8 A Yes. After I went to that block and that building.
9 Q Okay.
10 So now, on sheet 40, did you, on sheet 40 request you
11 write in the date?
12 A On sheet 40?
13 Q Yes. The date on line one?
14 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, I'm just having a little
15 bit of a disadvantage because whatever pages we are talking
16 about --
17 MR. MANDELKER: Here. Here. Look.
18 Be my guest.
19 A (Perusing.)
20 It does look -- um. I think I did. I'm not certain
21 but it looks like it's me.
22 Q Okay.
23 And the address to the right of line one?
24 A That's mine. I wrote it.
25 Q And all the material in the subscribing witness
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 168
1 statement, is that you?
2 A That's mine.
3 Q Okay.
4 And if we could look at sheet, what was the other sheet
5 that I said?
6 A 28?
7 Q 28. Yes.
8 A Yeah.
9 Q You filled out the entire subscribing witness
10 statement?
11 A It looks like it, yes. That's my handwriting.
12 Q And did you fill out the dates for the signers?
13 A It looks like most of them, most or all of them were
14 signed by me. I'm not sure of one of them.
15 Q Okay.
16 How about the residence addresses on sheet 28?
17 A Not all of them were written by me. Some of them were
18 definitely written by other people.
19 The last two, and I think the first one as well
20 definitely don't look like it's my handwriting.
21 Q And whatever you filled out, did you fill out while you
22 were out in the field or at the end of the day, either back in
23 your apartment or wherever?
24 A The address normally -- not normally, the address I
25 would fill out on the spot.
dmgm
Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 169
1 Q Could you tell me -- we're talking about 28, right?
2 Sheet 28?
3 A 28, yes.
4 Q Is there a reason that you filled out the address on
5 the spot on sheet 28 but did not fill out the address on the
6 spot in sheet 30 of 201?
7 MR. GLASER: Your Honor.
8 A That's incorrect characterization of what I just said.
9 That is not what I testified to.
10 Q I misunderstood then. Please correct me.
11 MR. GLASER: Objection.
12 THE COURT: Overruled.
13 A Okay.
14 I would always fill out the address on the spot. It is
15 just when I went to see who was the name of the person filled
16 in, who was the name of the person who signed that signature on
17 page 30.
18 When I concluded, based on the first letter, based on
19 length of the name, based on the same apartment, based on
20 everything that this is the person, and given that there was no
21 other signatures in that building, my conclusion was that this
22 must be the person.
23 And I probably messed up the address. But, you know,
24 sometimes you just mess up the address when you are walking
25 building to building one day.
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 170
1 So that's when I corrected it. I wrote it down on the
2 spot, but I corrected at some point later when I figured out I
3 made a mistake.
4 Q So just so I followed, you originally wrote down
5 something else and later on when you thought you were correct,
6 you obliterated it?
7 THE COURT: You made a mistake?
8 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I thought I made a mistake.
9 MR. MANDELKER: I just want to make --
10 THE COURT: He made a mistake. Let's move on.
11 MR. MANDELKER: Okay, your witness.
12 THE COURT: Good.
13 MR. GLASER: Actually, if you don't mind, can I
14 use the lectern, if that's okay?
15 THE COURT: Fine.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION
17 BY MR. GLASER:
18 Q Good morning, Senator Storobin.
19 A Good morning.
20 Q Are you a member of bar of the State of New York?
21 A I am.
22 Q And how long have you been a member of the bar of the
23 State of New York?
24 A I guess eight years or so.
25 Q And you consider yourself to be an officer of the
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 171
1 Court?
2 A Absolutely.
3 Q And you know you put your license on the line every
4 time you testify, correct?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And can you tell us what your work is, as an attorney
7 involves?
8 A Um, well, it's mostly family court stuff; so child
9 support, child custody, orders of protection.
10 We also have some criminal cases. We also did some
11 other cases in the firm as well.
12 Q And just based on what I just said, you understand what
13 the penalties of perjury with respect to your testimony?
14 A Absolutely.
15 Q And that also includes filling in an affirmation or
16 affidavit?
17 A Yes.
18 Q What else do you do for a living?
19 A I'm also a New York State Senator.
20 Q What does your work as a New York State Senator
21 involve?
22 A Well, there are two parts of it. I guess there's the
23 Albany part and the district part.
24 The Albany part of it is voting for/against laws,
25 sponsor, argue for/against them.
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 172
1 And then, there's the district where you are helping
2 out a bunch of people that are walking in with anything from the
3 lights going out in their buildings to their social security
4 checks got delayed, to everything else, to every other problem
5 that they might have.
6 Q Now, sir, Senator, you did collect signatures on a
7 petition designating you as candidate for New York State Senate?
8 A Yes, I did.
9 Q And I believe, is it fair to say you collected
10 somewhere between 30, 30 and 35 signatures?
11 A I think it is closer to 30. I think it is about 30.
12 Q Why did you personally collect signatures?
13 A Because all of the other people were out collecting
14 signatures for me. All the Republican clubs and volunteers and
15 people not involved in politics, coming in and volunteering.
16 THE COURT: And it was a hundred degrees, and he
17 wanted to set a good example.
18 I remember all of that, yesterday.
19 THE WITNESS: And, yes, essentially I want to show
20 out there, I'm out there in 100-degree temperature. I not
21 relaxing when they are working.
22 Q Is it fair to say you don't even know all the people
23 that brought the signatures?
24 A I know some of the people, but I don't know all of
25 them. Because legislative, um, Republican Club gets their
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 173
1 volunteers.
2 I don't necessarily, probably I will not know them at
3 all. But nonetheless, you want at least the leader of the club
4 to know that I'm doing it. Not that they are sending out their
5 people while I'm relaxing.
6 Q And we believe we all know that you don't remember some
7 of the names, correct?
8 A Some of the other names, I don't remember.
9 If someone is representing a club, not any assembly
10 district, how would I? Because they are divided by assembly
11 districts.
12 Q I know, but some names you don't remember, right?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 Did you need those 30 to 35 signatures to qualify for
16 the ballot?
17 A We got more than double the number of signatures. We
18 submitted more than double the number of signatures that we
19 needed. So without those 30 signatures, we would still have
20 more than double the number of signatures.
21 So, no, absolutely not.
22 Q Did you have a practice and procedure for collecting
23 signatures when you arrive at someone's door?
24 A Well, I would knock on door. Someone would open the
25 door. I would introduce myself.
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 174
1 I would ask them if they're, they are a Republican. If
2 they said, yes, I would ask they will to sign for me.
3 If they agreed, they would sign. And we would move on
4 to the next house or apartment.
5 Q And did you have a practice and procedure for doing
6 something on a petition page after you collected a signature?
7 A Um, in terms, you mean, in terms of residence and that
8 part?
9 Q Well, yeah, after they signed, what did you do?
10 A Well, if they didn't fill out the residence, I would
11 make sure to fill out the residence. Because I was told that I
12 have to do that.
13 So that part, I did on the spot as well.
14 Q Did you also have a practice and procedure for filling
15 out, printing in names near a signer's name?
16 A Sometimes. Most of the time, I did it later, just
17 because you wanted to kind of go ahead and get out of the
18 100-degree heat.
19 Q Is it true that all of the signatures, all the
20 signatures except for one contained a printed name on it that
21 you collected?
22 A I believe all of them or, I mean maybe there's one that
23 isn't. But probably, yeah.
24 Q So is it fair to say that practice and procedure was to
25 have each and every signer have a printed name near it?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 175
1 A I tried to make it easier for the BOE so there's no
2 confusion, but yeah.
3 Q Okay.
4 A That backfired, huh?
5 Q Okay.
6 Well, did you ever come to learn that you could have
7 left it blank?
8 A Ah.
9 Q Or -- withdrawn.
10 Did you know at the time that you could have left it
11 blank?
12 A I wasn't sure. Nobody instructed me on the names.
13 I was told that I needed to get the signature, the date
14 and the residence.
15 There was nothing for, there was no column, really, for
16 the actual name.
17 Q Okay.
18 Did you ever collect the signature of the Hilda Danger?
19 A No.
20 Q Well, how do you know?
21 A Um, well, because it may have entered the news that she
22 is no longer alive.
23 Q And you never got to know a Hilda Danger either,
24 correct?
25 A No.
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 176
1 Q When did you first become aware of the name Hilda
2 Danger?
3 A Um, well, I guess when I saw the walking sheets.
4 Although, at the time, I didn't really remember.
5 The first time that I actually remembered is when this
6 whole thing happened.
7 Q Okay. And did someone sign a petition -- withdrawn.
8 With respect to what was just discussed on direct, did
9 somebody else's signature appear over the line where Hilda
10 Danger's name was printed?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Who signed that petition?
13 A Michail Issak.
14 Q And when did Michail Issak sign the petition?
15 A On that date.
16 Let me just look. I think it is 7/6. July 6.
17 Q Okay.
18 And tell us what you did when you first went to Michael
19 Issak's door?
20 A I didn't hear you.
21 Q What did you do when you went to Michael Issak's door?
22 A Michail Issak.
23 Well, the way I said that, the way it works -- not the
24 way it works, but the way we did it, first we went to this
25 apartment, Hilda Danger. Then we went to some doors, 1E. Spoke
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 177
1 to a person there. She said it is not them.
2 Then I spoke to other people on the floor. They said
3 it wasn't them. Some of them opened. Some of them didn't.
4 Most of them didn't.
5 Then we went to other buildings there, because I
6 remember being there. So I went to different Apartment 1F. And
7 one of them, a person opened the door and when I said, Hi, is
8 this your signature? That person identified the signature and
9 then signed a letter saying, This is my signature. And that
10 signature matched.
11 Q Let's stay with when you first went to him.
12 Can you tell us what happened when you first went to
13 his door, what you did you do? What did he say to you?
14 MR. MANDELKER: Excuse me, I'm going to be object
15 to the person that is not on the stand said to this witness
16 to be offered to the proof of the truth of the matter
17 obtained in the statement.
18 THE COURT: Sustained.
19 Q What did you do when you first went to Mr. Issak's
20 door?
21 A I knocked on the door. A man and a woman -- woman
22 actually, opened the door. Then a man also came up to the door.
23 I asked, Are these, either one of your signatures? And, the
24 signature was identified.
25 MR. MANDELKER: Objection to, The signature was
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 178
1 identified.
2 THE COURT: What do you mean by that?
3 THE WITNESS: Well, I asked, Is this your
4 signature? And the person says, Yes, it is my signature.
5 THE COURT: All right.
6 Let's continue.
7 Q Do you remember the address?
8 A God, I remember there was an ark in the buildings there
9 when you walk in.
10 THE COURT: An address, do you remember that, the
11 address?
12 THE WITNESS: I think it's -- I don't remember it
13 right now. I don't remember it right now.
14 THE COURT: Okay.
15 Q If I asked you if it was 1569 Ocean Avenue, would that
16 be correct?
17 MR. MANDELKER: Objection.
18 He's leading his own witness.
19 THE COURT: Would that refresh your recollection?
20 THE WITNESS: I believe that's the building
21 number, yes.
22 Q And I believe you said there was somebody else with
23 her, with -- I'm sorry, with Michael Issak, correct?
24 A Michail Issak.
25 Q Michail Issak?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 179
1 A Yes.
2 Q Do you recall if there was somebody else there in the
3 apartment?
4 A There was a woman who looked like she resides there,
5 based on the clothing and the demeanor and the way that she
6 behaved. She felt very comfortable being there.
7 Q Okay. And, sir, you believe that -- well, withdrawn.
8 Can you tell us why this Hilda Danger's name is printed
9 under Michael Issak's signature? Michail Issak's signature?
10 A Well, if you look at the signature, the first letter is
11 an M there, which if you look, it looks very much, very much
12 like an H.
13 And I would like to show it to anybody, but if you sign
14 something in an M and an H, especially on a signature look very,
15 very similar.
16 It is signed in a very cursive-type of signature.
17 Also, you look at last names of the two people. They
18 also look about the same length. So, and also the, right after
19 the H, there's like a big letter. Well, what I perceive as an
20 H. There's also a big letter that I perceive like a D because
21 it is kind of like -- that's what it looks to me.
22 And that's why I figure that's the person.
23 Q Did you ever go back to Michael Issak's apartment,
24 Michail Issak's apartment after you collected his signature?
25 A Like I said, I knocked on the door twice. That's the
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 180
1 person who signature, the person identified, the signature, and
2 that's when I was there.
3 Q Okay, slow down.
4 A Yes.
5 Q You went back to his apartment, right?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What was the reason for you going back to his
8 apartment?
9 A Like I said, I went to all the apartments 1F, as well
10 as all the apartments on the same floor in 1576 to investigate
11 what exactly happened.
12 Q And when you say what exactly happened, this was after
13 you learned an article or -- that you learned there was some
14 issue with one of the signatures, correct?
15 A Yes. This was a little over a week ago.
16 Q And so what happened when you went there?
17 A Like I said, I knocked on the door. I asked the person
18 if this is their signature. He identified --
19 MR. MANDELKER: Objection to whatever the person
20 responded.
21 THE COURT: Sustained.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 I asked if this was the signature, and then I
24 left.
25 Q Was the signature identified as Mr. Issak's?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 181
1 A Yes, it was.
2 MR. MANDELKER: Objection.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 Q Did you obtain a statement of Mr. Issak?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, can we approach.
7 (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the
8 record.)
9 THE COURT: All right, let's continue.
10 MR. MANDELKER: So, your Honor, for purposes of
11 the record, I object to the introduction of that document.
12 It is hearsay.
13 THE COURT: It is being accepted subject to
14 connection.
15 MR. GLASER: Can I have this marked, your Honor?
16 And, counsel, has already seen it.
17 (Whereupon, document is so marked as Respondent's
18 Exhibit A in evidence.)
19 THE COURT: Mark.
20 MR. GLASER: Is it Respondent's A?
21 THE COURT OFFICER: Yes.
22 Q I show you what has been marked as --
23 (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken after which
24 the proceedings continued as follows:)
25 Q Do you recognize what that document is?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 182
1 A Yes, I do.
2 Q What is it?
3 A It's, it's a statement that --
4 MR. MANDELKER: Your Honor, I object to any
5 questions about the document.
6 It speaks for itself. And if the witness ever
7 comes in, perhaps counsel can ask the witness.
8 THE COURT: Overruled.
9 A It's a statement written by this person that we were
10 just discussing, Michail Issak, who said that this is his
11 signature and who said that he signed the Republican signature
12 on July 6th and that he signed under it after identifying the
13 signature.
14 Q But just so it's clear, when you say written by him,
15 signed by him or something else?
16 A Ah, it is signed by him. And also his name is spelled
17 out by him.
18 Q And who prepared the statement for him to sign?
19 A I believe I was the one who just printed it out when I
20 went there to find out who was there, to see it's some other
21 person.
22 Q And was this signature obtained at 1576 Ocean Avenue?
23 A Apartment 1F, yes.
24 Q Okay.
25 MR. GLASER: And can I just ask that that
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 183
1 statement, along with the petition sheet itself be
2 published to your Honor?
3 THE COURT: I saw it.
4 MR. GLASER: Okay, in other words, you saw what it
5 compares to, correct?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 Q Okay -- withdrawn.
8 Can you tell us the reason you changed the address when
9 you were at Mr. Issak's apartment?
10 A No.
11 Q Withdrawn.
12 Can you tell us the reason why you changed the address
13 some time after you were at Mr. Issak's apartment when you
14 collected his petition signature?
15 A Because when I was reviewing all the petitions for that
16 day and the previous day and reviewing it now with opposing
17 counsel's testifying, I perceived that, I witnessed that day for
18 a bunch of these folks. When I was reviewing it, I saw there
19 was no name.
20 There's, it's going to be difficult to identify based
21 on the signature. Because the person didn't really spell out
22 the name. It looked like scribble. I don't know, the first
23 letter. And at that point, I looked to see what it is. And I
24 figured they just messed up the address.
25 So I, so that's what happened.
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 184
1 Q And that was a mistake?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Incidentally, can you explain why you started a new
4 petition sheet with regard to where Mr. Issak's signature
5 appears?
6 A Because I just showed up there and I was given a
7 petition sheet of the person that I just met there.
8 Q Now, sir, did you sign the witness statement for each
9 and every signature you collected?
10 A Did I sign it? Yes.
11 Q Can you tell us why some of the sheets were complete
12 and some weren't?
13 A Because sometimes you just finish to go have lunch. Or
14 get a break. Or because it's hot. Or because I have my Senate
15 responsibilities. Or because I have my attorney
16 responsibilities. Or for a multitude of reasons.
17 You can stop at some point, and then restart either
18 later that day or on another day.
19 Q Did you ever come to learn there was any requirement
20 for completing a petition sheet?
21 A I don't believe there's such requirement. That would
22 be news to me right now.
23 Q And you can, as far as you know, you can start as many
24 petition sheets as you want to submit, as long as the witness
25 statements are correct? Correct?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 185
1 A Yes.
2 Q And you have to just put the number signatures that you
3 took down at the bottom, correct?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And when people sign your petition and you witness the
6 signature, did they always sign in your presence?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Every single time, right?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And did you need to collect your own signatures?
11 A Like I said, we submitted more than double the number
12 of signatures.
13 THE COURT: That's not the question.
14 THE WITNESS: I didn't need to submit, I didn't
15 need to submit them because we would still have, even with
16 out my signatures more than double the amount of
17 signatures.
18 Q And, Senator, was the signature that Mr. Issak signed,
19 where he mistakenly wrote in Helga Danger, a extremely important
20 signature to you or was it just one of 100 signatures -- I will
21 withdraw the question.
22 A It was not important at all. Besides it was not any
23 more important than any of the other 2100 signatures that we
24 collected. It was the same value as everyone else.
25 Q Well, window you have expected to make it on the ballot
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 186
1 without Mr. Issak's signature?
2 A Absolutely.
3 Q And was -- well, was that signature so important to you
4 that you would risk your position as a New York State Senator
5 and your law license?
6 A Senate, not assemblyman.
7 Q Would you consider that signature so important that you
8 would risk your seat in the New York State Senate and your law
9 license on?
10 A No. Of course not. No.
11 Q Was there any reason you needed to commit fraud on the
12 petition to qualify for the ballot?
13 A No. Absolutely not.
14 Q All right.
15 A I wouldn't do it, even if there was a reason. But
16 there was no reason.
17 Q Okay.
18 Well, explain what you mean by that.
19 A That, well --
20 THE COURT: He did.
21 Next question.
22 MR. GLASER: Okay.
23 Q Well, did you ever learn that your petition was in
24 jeopardy of not qualifying for the ballot?
25 THE COURT: Isn't that why we're here?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 187
1 A When I showed up --
2 MR. GLASER: Well, I'm withdraw it.
3 Q Did you learn there was a clerk's report indicating
4 that you had 1,400, more than 1460 signatures for the allot?
5 A Yes. We had more than 50 percent ballot signatures
6 than we actually needed.
7 Q And I want you to assume, sir, that a handwriting
8 expert will come into court and testify that you have committed
9 fraud, would that be true or untrue?
10 A That would be absolutely false.
11 Q Sir, is it fair to say that a majority of the
12 signatures collected on behalf of your campaign was not
13 maintained in your own office during the petition drive?
14 I changed the question. It is clear, I said in your
15 own office as opposed to by your own office.
16 A That's a fair statement. Most of them were not my
17 campaign office.
18 Q Where did the signatures come from?
19 A There were multiple operations going. Obviously, we
20 had some people. Like I mentioned yesterday, some of our
21 volunteers or paid workers.
22 In addition to that Republican clubs, there's, they are
23 like separately-based clubs that went out and collected
24 petitions.
25 They are also Young Republican Club. Two Republican
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 188
1 clubs. Both of them collected signatures for us.
2 There were also other candidates whose districts were
3 also overlapping with mine, who also collected signatures.
4 And there were also some Republican people who also
5 helped both myself and other candidates as well.
6 Q And how did you, how do you know -- I mean, generally
7 how do you know the practice and procedure you employed by your
8 campaign for collecting petition signatures?
9 A How do you know?
10 Q How do you know, is it from personal knowledge or --
11 A I don't know because I wasn't beyond getting like 30
12 signatures myself. I wasn't really involved in the petition
13 process.
14 Q But when you explained about the practice and procedure
15 in general for collecting the petition signatures, where they
16 were kept, how did you come to learn about those things?
17 A Just speaking to people.
18 Q Like who?
19 A Different people like Jacob Kornbluh and the chairman
20 and district club, district leaders. And just random people.
21 Everyone that was involved I guess. Not everyone.
22 That was involved at the management of some part of
23 that operation? Yes.
24 Q And where was the signatures ultimately brought for
25 binding?
dmgm
Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser 189
1 A They were binded in the chairman's -- I'm not sure, to
2 be honest, in the chairman's law office or in the GOP
3 headquarters. But one of those offices. I just don't know
4 which one. I wasn't there.
5 Some signatures were from our office originally. That
6 was minority of signatures. Most of the signature weren't in
7 our office. They were route --
8 Q Were those signatures maintained in your office until
9 the time for bonding?
10 A Some of them. I'm not sure.
11 Actually, I think most of them. I'm just not sure.
12 Q Most of the signatures that were collected by your
13 office?
14 A I think they were kept in a -- a minority of
15 signatures that overall were collected were collected by our
16 campaign.
17 Most of those, or all of those, I'm not sure, were
18 still kept in the office for a while until they were brought to
19 the chairman, the law chairman at some point.
20 I'm not sure when, but I think it is on the date it was
21 binded.
22 Q All right.
23 And with respect to Michail Issak's signature where Ms.
24 Danger's name appears underneath the signature --
25 MR. MANDELKER: Objection to the characterization.
dmgm
190
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 THE COURT: Yes, sustained.
2 Q With respect to Michail Issak's signature --
3 MR. MANDELKER: Objection to the characterization.
4 THE COURT: No, continue.
5 Q With respect to Michael Issak's signature, did you
6 blame anyone but yourself with regard to the mistake that was
7 made on that sheet?
8 A No. Of course, not.
9 I blame myself for making the mistake to the degree
10 that it was collected, and the mistake was made. And it is my
11 handwriting.
12 The only person that I could possibly point the finger
13 to is myself.
14 Q Is it fair to say it was in fact a mistake?
15 A Yes.
16 MR. GLASER: I have nothing further.
17 THE COURT: Anything else?
18 MR. MANDELKER: Oh, yes.
19 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. MANDELKER:
21 Q Sir, could you look at sheets number 47 and 20 --
22 A Which book are we talking about?
23 Q 199.
24 A 199, (perusing).
25 Q 199, sheets 47 and 23.
dmgm
191
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 A One second.
2 (Pause.)
3 A I'm looking at -- I'm looking at them, yes.
4 Q And sheet 30 of volume 201?
5 A I'm looking at that one also.
6 Q And those signatures were all collected on July 6th,
7 were they not?
8 MR. GLASER: Objection, your Honor.
9 I don't know how this relates to my
10 cross-examination.
11 THE COURT: The sheets you just mentioned, they
12 were not challenged, were they?
13 MR. MANDELKER: He testified about them in his
14 direct examination. These are the signatures that --
15 THE COURT: I will permit it.
16 MR. MANDELKER: Okay.
17 Q Is it not a fact that the signature on sheet 30 in
18 volume 201 was collected after the signatures on the other two
19 sheets were collected?
20 A I believe so.
21 Q Okay.
22 And did I understand -- is it your testimony that you
23 went back to the building where this signature on sheet 30, or
24 you went to the building where the signature on sheet 30 was
25 collected for the purpose of collecting a signature?
dmgm
192
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 A Yeah, I went to all these buildings for that reason.
2 Q And about what time of day was that?
3 A I don't remember. But it was later in the day.
4 Q Later in the day.
5 Okay, now, let's go forward to the time you completed
6 the subscribing witness statement for sheet 30.
7 At what time was that completed?
8 A I didn't hear the question. I'm sorry.
9 Q What time did you complete the subscribing witness
10 statement on sheet 30 in volume 201?
11 A I mean, it was several hours later. Because we weren't
12 going out, well, first.
13 Q Is the answer several hours later?
14 MR. GLASER: Objection.
15 A Easily several hours later because --
16 THE COURT: Once again, try to answer the question
17 that was asked.
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 What did Michail Issak look like, what does he look
21 like?
22 A Um.
23 Q First of all, he's a man, correct?
24 A He's a man, yes.
25 Q How tall is he --
dmgm
193
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 A Ah.
2 Q -- compared to your height? Taller? Shorter? Same
3 height?
4 A At least the same. Maybe an inch or two taller.
5 Q What about his weight compared to you? Heavier than
6 you? Lighter than you?
7 A I guess, again, about the same or a little heavier.
8 Q Okay.
9 And how about his age, again, compared to your age?
10 A I'm pretty sure he's older than me. Not old but middle
11 age.
12 Q Middle age. 40's or 50's something like that?
13 A I would assume.
14 Q Okay.
15 And what about his voice? Was it deep? Was it loud?
16 A It was regular.
17 Q Regular voice?
18 A It was a regular voice.
19 Q Okay.
20 So now could you tell me how is it that when you --
21 withdrawn.
22 And your testimony is that on July 6th, it was Michail
23 Issak, not Hilda Danger, who signed line one of sheet 30 of
24 volume 201, correct?
25 MR. GLASER: Objection.
dmgm
194
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 THE COURT: Overruled.
2 A Can you repeat that?
3 Q Is it your testimony that the person who signed line
4 one on sheet 30 of volume 201 was Michail Issak?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Could you tell me then why when you completed the
7 sheet, you couldn't remember that the person who signed it was a
8 man who was approximately your height, middle-aged, dark hair,
9 approximately your weight?
10 A Because when I was reviewing them, I had a whole bunch
11 of petitions in front of me from that day and from the previous
12 days. Which, as you might remember yesterday, we looked at
13 them, that I witnessed them on that day as well.
14 And I didn't remember any of those people. And I
15 couldn't connect the signature to a face.
16 It wasn't that I knew that the person's name is this or
17 this is the person. It was a scribbled out signature that I
18 couldn't connect to anyone. Because -- and that's why I went
19 looking on the walk list.
20 Q Sir, did you remember that you collected signatures on
21 three sheets on July 6th and on only one of them, sheet number
22 30, was there only one signature? Did you remember? Did you
23 remember that?
24 A No. Because we also, I also went with the, at the same
25 time --
dmgm
195
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 THE COURT: Objection.
2 Q Well --
3 THE COURT: He hasn't finish his answer.
4 MR. MANDELKER: Oh, I thought that was the end of
5 it.
6 A I was also helping other volunteers for other reasons.
7 There were other things that happened.
8 No, I absolutely didn't remember each signature,
9 particularly when I couldn't tell the name.
10 If there was a name, maybe something would, you know,
11 recall my recollection. But you can't really see anything
12 beyond the first letter.
13 Q So, just to be clear, as you sit here today, your
14 testimony is that when you completed the subscribing witness
15 statement on sheet 30; you had no recollection that several
16 hours earlier, a man had signed the only sheet that you
17 witnessed that only had a single signature? Is that your
18 testimony?
19 MR. GLASER: Objection.
20 THE COURT: Overruled.
21 A It wasn't the only signature that we got at that time.
22 I was walking with other volunteers that were getting different
23 signatures. If they weren't the ones getting, so they were the
24 ones witnessing.
25 Sometimes it was me holding them, at which time I would
dmgm
196
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 be witnessing it. But, and like I said, I was also witnessing
2 for multiple days. On that day, which you were aware of.
3 So, no, I could absolutely not recall looking at the
4 signature who it is because, like I said, it is scribbled beyond
5 the first letter.
6 Q Sir, could you tell me who you accompanied, who was
7 getting signatures, who were the other subscribing witness that
8 you accompanied, that you were getting signatures, that were
9 getting signatures for you?
10 A The person that I believe right now accompanied me, his
11 name is Eugene Pepsner (ph.). I believe he was the person who
12 was with me at the time when I was walking.
13 Q I thought you just said that in addition to the
14 signatures on which you were the subscribing witness, you
15 accompanied other people as they were getting signatures?
16 A Eugene was also getting signatures.
17 Q Anybody else other than -- I forgot the gentleman's
18 name, and I don't want to mispronounce it?
19 A Let me put it this way, every time I went out to get
20 signatures, I was always with somebody. I specifically advised,
21 it doesn't look good for a senator to be seen alone.
22 If they were out with me, I might knock on door 1-A and
23 they might knock on door 1-C or something.
24 Q Who were those people who were accompanying me?
25 A Who were those people?
dmgm
197
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 Q Yes.
2 A Friends, family.
3 Q Names?
4 A Volunteers.
5 MR. GLASER: Come on. Objection. Could we move
6 on.
7 THE COURT: Did you say it doesn't look good for a
8 senator to be without someone?
9 THE WITNESS: That's what I was told when I'm out
10 campaigning or out, I should be with somebody.
11 THE COURT: All right.
12 THE WITNESS: That's what I'm saying. If I'm ever
13 out there, have someone with me.
14 MR. MANDELKER: All right.
15 Q Now, just a few questions to follow up.
16 You said that, I believe, slightly more than a half of
17 the signatures were collected by the county organization or
18 Republican clubs or Young Republican Clubs; was that your
19 testimony?
20 A I don't know.
21 MR. GLASER: Objection.
22 MR. MANDELKER: On cross.
23 THE COURT: Overruled.
24 A I don't know for a fact exactly how many numbers were
25 collected. That's what I believe, based on conversations that I
dmgm
198
Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker
1 later had.
2 I don't know for a fact who collected how many
3 signatures. I just know that I believe that that's the case.
4 THE COURT: All right. Let's move on.
5 What's the next question?
6 A I believe that's the case.
7 Q So based on your recollection or belief then, almost
8 half was collected by your campaign; is that correct that?
9 A Would make sense. Again, I don't know the exact
10 number.
11 MR. MANDELKER: No further questions, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Anything else?
13 MR. GLASER: Thank you.
14 RECROSS-EXAMINATION
15 BY MR. GLASER:
16 Q Well, Senator, is it true that several petition sheets,
17 I'm not talking about the ones that you witnessed, is it true
18 that several petition sheets just had one signature on them?
19 A I don't know about petitions other than mine. I'm sure
20 there were, because people do that. But I didn't really look at
21 anyone else's signatures besides my own. Unless they were with
22 me.
23 Q Was there anything memorable about Michail Issak's
24 signature other than the fact it made it into the press?
25 A That's what made it memorable. Beyond that, it was
dmgm
Proceedings 199
1 more, it was one of something like 2,100 signatures that my
2 campaign got. Not my campaign, by the whole operation. So, no.
3 MR. GLASER: Okay. Nothing further.
4 MR. MANDELKER: Nothing further on this witness.
5 THE COURT: Thank you, Senator. You may step
6 down.
7 (Witness stepped down.)
8 MR. MANDELKER: I call Jacob Kornbluh.
9 MR. GLASER: Well, your Honor, I guess -- I
10 believe I didn't tell you, but I couldn't get Mr. Kornbluh
11 until this afternoon.
12 THE COURT: All right.
13 MR. GLASER: So, your Honor, and as to the other
14 witness, I'm going to try to get him too.
15 I do want -- can I bring up the issue, the
16 handwriting expert for a moment? I'm told that I'll be
17 getting a report tonight.
18 Mr. Storobin was actually called to testify now
19 because he's got a trip scheduled for Israel. I have been
20 hearing for over a week, and this included conversations we
21 had with Justice Schmidt. And, at this point, my client
22 has testified and I have nothing, assuming that my client
23 leaves for Israel on this trip, I have nothing to
24 contradict what he says in my own case.
25 So, at this point, because I'm not even going to
dmgm
Proceedings 200
1 get it until I'm told tonight, I'm asking to preclude this
2 expert.
3 And I have, again, because I really have no way of
4 contradicting him and I believe that the report coming in
5 at this point is too little too late --
6 THE COURT: You can't get it to him sooner?
7 MR. MANDELKER: I'm not in my office. I don't
8 have it.
9 THE COURT: Look into it. I mean, we are talking
10 about how many signatures?
11 MR. MANDELKER: I think we're talking about --
12 THE COURT: He's going to testify tomorrow.
13 Tomorrow is Thursday --
14 MR. MANDELKER: Friday.
15 THE COURT: He's going to testify Friday.
16 MR. MANDELKER: Probably 30 signatures.
17 THE COURT: All right.
18 Let's try to get it to counsel as soon as
19 possible.
20 MR. MANDELKER: As soon as I have it, he'll have
21 it.
22 THE COURT: As soon as possible.
23 MR. MANDELKER: Yes, sir.
24 THE COURT: All right.
25 We will see you at 2:15.
dmgm
Proceedings 201
1 MR. MANDELKER: Thank you, your Honor.
2 MR. GLASER: Your Honor, I guess the issue is I
3 don't believe I will be able to recall, at least as to Mr.
4 Storobin, who testifies with regard to Mr. Storobin's
5 signature. So if you rule against me, you rule against me.
6 But I'm moving to preclude this expert.
7 So we'll revisit it.
8 THE COURT: We will hear from him on Friday.
9 MR. GLASER: Thank you, your Honor.
10
11 (Whereupon a luncheon recess was taken.)
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
dmgm
