Storobin Testimony 2 by CelesteKatz

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 3   ----------------------------------------------X


 5                                 Petitioner-Candidate-Aggrieved,


 7                    -against-                        Index Number:

 8                                                       700013/12




12                                      Respondents.

13   ----------------------------------------------X

15   ----------------------------------------------X
     DAVID STOROBIN, in the Matter of the Application of as a
16   candidate for the Republican Party Nomination/Designation for
     the Public Office of the State Senator from the 17th Senate
17   District, New York State, within the City of New York,
     County of Kings,
18                                 Petitioner,

19                    -against-                        Index Number:
21   THEODOR DITCHEK, as objector(s) seeking an order,
     pursuant to the Election Law declaring valid the petition
22   designating the aforesaid named candidate(s) for the
     aforesaid described public offices and/or party positions and
23   ordering the Board of Elections to place the name of said
     petitioner candidate upon the ballot to be used at the primary
24   election of the Republican Party to be held on September 13,
25                                      Respondents.


 1                                ORAL ARGUMENT ON MOTION
                                            360 Adams Street
 3                                          Brooklyn, New York

 4                                          August 8, 2012

     B E F O R E:
                     HONORABLE LARRY D. MARTIN,
 7                                                    Justice.
     A P P E A R A N C E S:
 9                 TWOMEY & GALLANTY, P.C.
                   Attorneys for Petitioner/Respondent
10                       Theodor Ditchek
                   51 East 42nd Street
11                 New York, New York 10017
12            BY: CARRIE ANDERER, ESQ., of Counsel

              CONDE & GLASER, LLP
14                 Attorneys for Respondent/Petitioner David Storobin
                   395 Broadway, Suite 801
15                 New York, New York 10007
              BY: EZRA B. GLASER, ESQ.

17                                     DOREEN M. GAETA-MILELLA
                                       Senior Court Reporter

19                        (In open court.)


21                  (The following is an excerpt of the proceedings.)


23                  THE COURT:    On the record.

24                  MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, with regard to the events

25       of the day, yesterday I was back in my office for maybe


 1   five minutes.    There was already a newspaper column that

 2   was reporting this in the Daily News.

 3               THE COURT:    I didn't see it.

 4               MR. GLASER:    Well, it involved comments that were

 5   made by Mr. Murray O'Brien and there was a court reporter

 6   in the courtroom during the day.       To me, the article

 7   contained characterizations that were completely --

 8               THE COURT:    You have to take that up with the

 9   Daily News.

10               What do you want me to do about it?

11               MR. GLASER:    I tell you what I want you to do

12   about it.     I want the Simcha Felder campaign --

13               THE COURT:    Is that the Daily News man?

14               PERSON IN THE AUDIENCE:    That's me.

15               MR. GLASER:    I want Mr. Murray O'Brien to be on

16   notice; they can bring these pleadings, as frivolous as

17   they are, and your Honor ruled that they should go ahead.

18   That's what he's doing.

19               I want them to be on notice that we will ask for

20   costs and sanctions.

21               THE COURT:    We will we cross that bridge if and

22   when we come to it.       But we will need to proceed.

23               MR. GLASER:    I guess you are not going to let me

24   make my commentary, which as to the sleaziness with Mr.

25   Murray O'Brien and with the reporter himself with the


 1   characterization.

 2               THE COURT:    Not at this time.

 3               MR. GLASER:    Okay, but I'm assuming you had

 4   evidence.

 5               THE COURT:    Senator.

 6               (Whereupon, the witness resumed the witness

 7   stand.)

 8               THE CLERK:    Just restate your name for the record?

 9               THE WITNESS:   David Storobin.

10               THE CLERK:    Thank you.

11               Have a seat.   You are reminded you are still under

12   oath.

13               THE COURT:    Remember the advice that I gave you

14   yesterday, Senator, about responding to the question that's

15   posed to you?

16               THE WITNESS:   Yes.    I will do my best.   I promise.

17               THE COURT:    Good.   Let's proceed.

18               MR. MANDELKER:    Your Honor, may we have petition

19   volume 199 placed before the witness?

20               THE COURT OFFICER:     Edition 199.

21               MR. MANDELKER:    Would you mind placing it before

22   the witness.

23               THE COURT OFFICER:     Okay.

24               (Handing.)

25               THE WITNESS:   Thank you.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 144



 3       Q    Mr. Storobin, Senator Storobin, would you be kind

 4   enough to turn to pages 47 and 23 in that volume.     Because

 5   that's where we left off yesterday.

 6            And if you wouldn't mind, just hand the petition open

 7   to sheet 47 to the Judge, just so he can look at it.

 8       A    (Complying.)

 9                 THE COURT:    Okay.

10       Q    Thank you.

11            Now, Senator Storobin, I think the last question I

12   asked you was did you recall why you did not obtain any more

13   signatures on sheet number 47.      And I think your answer was, and

14   I'm paraphrasing it, could be a million things.

15            Do you recall that?     That's where I want to pick up.

16                 MR. GLASER:    I'm going to object, and I ask that

17       either a question be asked of Mr. Storobin or --

18                 THE COURT:    Is there a question?

19                 MR. MANDELKER:     No, I'm just placing him where I

20       am because I'm focussing his mind where we left off

21       yesterday.

22                 THE COURT:    All right.    We will permit it.

23                 Let's continue.

24                 MR. MANDELKER:     Okay.

25       Q    So, do you recall if you obtained any other signatures

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 145

 1   on July 7th, as you sit here today, do you recall if you

 2   obtained any other signatures on July 6, 2012?

 3       A    Besides what's on pages 23 and 47?

 4       Q    Yes.

 5       A    I believe so.

 6       Q    Okay.

 7                    MR. MANDELKER:    And can we have volume 201?

 8                    (Handing.)

 9       Q    And if you can open it to sheet number 30, sir?

10       A    (Complying.)

11            I see it.

12       Q    Okay.

13            And could you just show the sheet to the Court?

14       A    (Complying.)

15                    THE COURT:    Okay.

16       Q    Is that your signature, sir, on the lower-right portion

17   of the witness statement?

18       A    Yes, it is.

19                    MR. GLASER:    Where?

20                    MR. MANDELKER:    Lower right-hand portion of the

21       witness statement.

22       A    Yes, it is.

23                    MR. GLASER:    Oh.

24       Q    And you see that your name is written in the upper

25   left-hand portion of the witness statement?

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 146

 1            Please wait for the question.

 2       A    Yes.

 3       Q    Did you write that in?

 4       A    Yes.

 5       Q    Did you see that an address was written in the witness

 6   statement; is that your handwriting?

 7       A    Yes, it is.

 8       Q    And it says that there's one signature, did you write

 9   in number one in there, in the witness statement?

10       A    Yes, I did.

11       Q    And you see there is a date in the lower-left hand

12   portion of the witness statement, says July 6th; do you see

13   that, sir?

14       A    Yes.

15       Q    Did you write that?

16       A    Yes, I did.

17       Q    Okay.

18            Now, let's go to where the significant is.   There's one

19   signature on the sheet, correct?

20       A    Yes, it is.

21       Q    And you see there's a date 7/6 that's handwritten in?

22       A    Yes.

23       Q    Is that your handwriting?

24       A    I believe so.

25       Q    Okay.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 147

 1            And to you see there is a residence address?

 2       A    I see that.

 3       Q    Is that your handwriting?

 4       A    I believe so, yes.

 5       Q    Could you read it to me because I have difficulty

 6   understanding you.

 7       A    I believe it's 1576 Ocean Avenue, Apartment 1F,

 8   Brooklyn, New York 1123.

 9                    MR. GLASER:    Are we talking about the original

10       address or the one that was crossed off?

11                    THE WITNESS:   Well, what was written there, that's

12       the address that I'm reading.

13       Q    Okay.

14            Was there another address on there first?

15       A    Um, there looks like something was written there and

16   then it was crossed off and something else was written.

17       Q    But you wrote the address that's there, 15 -- is it,

18   did you say 76?

19                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.   There's two addresses

20       there.

21                    THE COURT:    Which address are you referring to?

22                    THE WITNESS:   I'm talking about the one you can

23       actually see.

24                    MR. MANDELKER:    The one that you can actually see.

25       That's the one.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 148

 1       Q      And that's your handwriting?

 2       A      It is.

 3       Q      Did you cross-off, you see there's items crossed-off

 4   and obliterated just to the left of the address?

 5       A      I see there's something crossed-off.

 6       Q      Did you do that, sir?

 7       A      It looks it, yes.

 8       Q      Why did you do that?

 9       A      Okay.

10              I, when we went to this person, that person signed,

11   they didn't put down, they didn't put down -- let me just

12   explain.

13       Q      Yes.     Go ahead.

14       A      That person didn't put down their name.

15              Normally, if I didn't see the name, at some point I

16   would fill in the name.

17              In this case, it doesn't look like anything that you

18   could actually respond.         The, except for the fact that the first

19   letter looks like something of an H and then like scribble, you

20   can't really see.

21              So I want to see who it was.       I saw that it was, that

22   there's a person by the name of Hilda Danger, also starts with

23   an H, who lives at, on the same block where I went door to door.

24              I looked her address, and I saw that she lived at 1576.

25   And I figured that must be the person, because she is in

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 149

 1   Apartment 1F, just as the address here wrote, it is Apartment 1F

 2   in a building on the same block where I went.      It looks like it

 3   begins with an H.

 4       Q    Senator Storobin, with the Court's permission, I'm

 5   going to ask the court reporter to read back the question that I

 6   asked you.

 7            And with the Court's permission, I'm going to ask you

 8   if you would focus on that and answer that question, and get to

 9   your testimony in a second.

10                    MR. GLASER:    He specifically asked him why he did

11       it, and that's why he answered.

12                    It was completely referable to the question.

13       There's nothing wrong with the answer.

14                    It was, completely addressed Mr. Mandelker's

15       question, and I object to any --

16                    THE COURT:    Read back, if you would.

17                    (Whereupon, the record was read back by the court

18       reporter.)

19                    THE COURT:    Do you have a question?

20                    MR. MANDELKER:    Yes.

21                    THE COURT:    Pose it.

22       Q    Senator, do you see on this, there's an address that

23   you handwrote?

24       A    Yes.

25       Q    In the box that says residence is material that you

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 150

 1   said looks obliterated, and you testified you did that?

 2       A       Okay.

 3       Q       Why did you obliterate whatever it was that you

 4   obliterated in the residence box?

 5       A       Because I thought this was the person Hilda Danger who

 6   left the signature.       And when I compared that to my walk list,

 7   that was the person's name, that was the address of that person.

 8   And having been to this building, I figured, okay, this has got

 9   to be the address.       So that's why.

10               Sometimes you make a mistake.     Like I did one time, it

11   looked like with the date.       Or you could make a mistake with

12   anything.

13               I'm sure you've done the same thing probably in the

14   notes that you have right now on you.

15       Q       Do you know what was written in the residence box that

16   you obliterated?

17       A       I know now.

18       Q       I'm sorry?

19       A       Now, I do.

20       Q       What was in that box that you obliterated?

21       A       It is the address of the building right next to 1576.

22       Q       Okay.

23               So, and what was that building?

24       A       Also --

25       Q       What was that building?

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 151

 1       A    I don't know the exact building number, but it is right

 2   next, it's on the same block, Ocean Avenue, Apartment F.

 3   Everything else is the same.

 4       Q    Okay.

 5            I'm very interested, because you seem to remember a lot

 6   about this signature.

 7                    MR. GLASER:    Objection to the characterization.

 8                    I object.

 9                    THE COURT:    It's not necessary.

10       Q    Okay.

11            If you go back to sheet 47 in volume 199, could you

12   look at that sheet?

13       A    47.

14       Q    47 in volume 199?

15       A    Yes.

16       Q    You see there are four blank lines for people to sign?

17       A    Yes.

18       Q    And you see that there are signatures at 1947 Ocean

19   Avenue, 1925 Ocean Avenue, 1903 Ocean Avenue on that sheet; do

20   you see that?

21       A    Yes.

22       Q    And 1576 Ocean Avenue, I assume is quite nearby?

23       A    Ah, it's got to be quite nearby because 15 and 19s, I

24   assume, are four blocks away.

25       Q    So can you tell me, sir, why you obtained the signature

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 152

 1   that appears on sheet 30 on that sheet rather than just

 2   obtaining it in one of the blank spaces on sheet 47?

 3       A    Because I did it at different times of that day with

 4   different people.

 5            When I went the second time, I just called a friend of

 6   mine, Eugene, and he just came back from work at this point.

 7   And he said that he's going out to collect signatures for me.

 8            And so I decide that I'm going to join him.    And when I

 9   joined him, he had his own petitions or something else.

10            I, at that point, I didn't have anything on my, walk

11   lists or petitions, pens, anything.    Maybe had a pen or

12   something, but not much of anything else.

13            The other petitions were done at a different time with

14   a different volunteer with a different walk list.   A different

15   everything.

16       Q    Sir, do you remember testifying here yesterday?

17       A    Yes, I do.

18       Q    And do you remember being asked the following question

19   and giving the following answer, and I'm referring to page 63 of

20   the transcript, starting at line 25?   Would the Court like a

21   copy?

22                 THE COURT:   Yes.

23                 MR. MANDELKER:   Give a copy of transcript.

24                 (Handing.)

25                 THE COURT:   I have a copy.

     Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 153

 1            What page?

 2            MR. MANDELKER:    63.   Last line, 25.

 3            THE COURT:    I don't have a copy.

 4            MR. MANDELKER:    In this one, it will be 137,

 5   again, line 25:

 6            "QUESTION: --"

 7            MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, objection.

 8            He's not testifying at a different trial or a

 9   different time, at a different -- I mean, he happens to

10   have been able to, because this other campaign seems to be

11   ordering daily copy transcript in front of him.

12            It is not a different deposition, it is not a

13   different trial.   The testimony speaks for itself.

14            If he is trying to impeach on the same testimony,

15   I don't think that's a valid way of using prior testimony.

16   It is not prior testimony for that purpose.

17            It is not of a different deposition.     It is not a

18   different trial.   It is yesterday.    It is while he's on the

19   stand.

20            So, your Honor, again, again, the defendants are

21   just using unlimited resources that they want to pour into

22   this election law trial to just use daily copy to impeach.

23            I don't think that's a valid way of using it.

24            THE COURT:    I disagree.    Let's continue.

25   Q        "QUESTION:    So, sir, do you remember why you

     Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 154

 1       didn't get any more signatures on this page; is that

 2       because you just stopped, were you done and you were

 3       finished petitioning for the day?

 4            "ANSWER:    I have no idea.   It could be a million

 5       reasons.    I decided to go take a break because I needed

 6       to go do something else.    Could be taking a break.

 7       Could be end of the day.    If could be a million

 8       different reasons.    Why do you stop for the rest of the

 9       day or for part of the day?

10            "QUESTION: --"

11            MR. GLASER:     Objection.

12            It is contradictory, your Honor.

13            THE COURT:    Continue.

14   Q        "QUESTION:    Stop getting signatures that could be

15       placed on a sheet with that date, 7/6 would be

16       appropriate --

17            "Objection.

18            "QUESTION:    Did you get any other signatures on

19            7/6?

20            "Objection.

21            "THE COURT:     Any objection, Mr. Glaser?

22            "Your Honor, he answered several times.

23            "THE COURT:     Why would it be a million reasons?

24            "MR. GLASER:    Yes, is the answer.

25            "THE COURT:     Is the answer?

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 155

 1                    "MR. GLASER:   Yes.   Okay.   Time to break."

 2                    Do you remember being asked those questions and

 3       giving those answers?

 4                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

 5                    THE COURT:    Overruled.

 6       A    Yes.

 7       Q    So when is it that you first recollect that you stopped

 8   petitioning on 7/6, July 6th, and that you went with another

 9   volunteer and came back to this building to obtain this

10   signature?   When did that recollection come to you?

11                    THE COURT:    The question is confusing.

12                    Restate it.

13       Q    Okay.

14            Sir, when did you first remember?

15                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

16       Q    Can I finish the question?

17                    THE COURT:    Can you answer it?

18                    THE WITNESS:   I can answer it.

19                    THE COURT:    That's fine.

20                    MR. GLASER:    Overruled?

21                    You know, I have an objection, okay?

22                    THE COURT:    Yes.

23       A    The answer is that for this particular petition,

24   because it was in the news, it was something that we

25   investigated.    It was something that once you start paying

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 156

 1   attention to a particular signature or a particular event and

 2   you start to investigating, start figuring out what happens,

 3   it's different than if you just have a piece of paper put in

 4   front of your case and then you are like, okay, I don't even

 5   know where that is.

 6            So, obviously, when I looked at this, it's one thing;

 7   and when I'm looking at something else, I'm looking at random

 8   names of people who speak and buildings and everything else, I

 9   don't recollect who these -- it is very different than a

10   signature that was investigated.

11            I didn't want to say investigated, but discussed in the

12   press, among other places.

13       Q    So when was the first time you, to use your word,

14   investigated that signature?

15       A    Ah.

16       Q    In the circumstances?

17       A    The first time that we looked into this signature is

18   when I got a, when I got and e-mail from a newspaper saying

19   there was an issue with the signature.

20       Q    When was that, sir?

21       A    10 days ago.   Five days ago.   Something like that.

22   Around, around there.

23       Q    Was this after this proceeding had been commenced?

24       A    Um, yeah.

25       Q    Okay.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 157

 1             And can you tell me what steps you took to investigate?

 2       A     What steps we took?

 3       Q     What steps you took?

 4       A     Okay, well, we went to that same address that's listed

 5   there.   We went to other apartments in the building on the same

 6   floor to see if there's a mistake with what the

 7   what-you-ma-call-it, with the apartment number.

 8             And we went to apartment 1F on the same building block

 9   to see if an address was messed up.      Because sometimes you walk

10   into the building and you just walk into the wrong building.

11       Q     What was the step, what part of the investigation dealt

12   with the fact that you finished petitioning with the signatures

13   that are on sheet number 47 of volume 199 and you went back to

14   this building, 1976 Ocean Avenue, later that day with a

15   different volunteer?   What part of the investigation related to

16   that part of your testimony?

17                  MR. GLASER:    Objection.

18                  There was never any testimony with regard to that

19       sheet, with regard to that sheet he is explaining --

20                  THE COURT:    The question is confusing.

21                  MR. MANDELKER:    Okay.

22       Q     You testified earlier that when you finished --

23                  MR. GLASER:    Objection.

24                  As to what he testified to earlier.

25                  THE COURT:    You have a question?

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 158

 1                    MR. MANDELKER:    Yes.

 2       Q    You testified earlier that when you finished obtaining

 3   the signatures on page 47, you stopped petitioning; and, then,

 4   subsequently you went out with another volunteer and you went to

 5   1976 Ocean Avenue and obtained the signature that appears on

 6   sheet 30 of volume 201; correct?

 7       A    Yes.

 8                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

 9                    THE COURT:    Approach.

10                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

11                    THE COURT:    Approach.

12                    (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the

13       record.).

14                    THE CLERK:    Come to order.   Remain seat.

15       Q    So, sir, did you witness the signature that was placed

16   on sheet 30 -- withdrawn.

17            The signature that was placed on line one of sheet 30

18   of volume 201, was that placed on there in your presence?

19       A    Yes.

20       Q    And where was the signer standing when the sheet, the

21   signature was placed on that sheet?

22       A    I was, in relation to me, I was right outside the

23   person's door.

24            The person was inside their apartment, took a pen and

25   signed it on the table that's right on the, like the little

            Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 159

 1   lobby area or hallway.

 2          Q     And you could see her?

 3          A     Oh, yeah.

 4          Q     And what apartment, when you were standing right

 5   outside?

 6          A     1F.

 7          Q     And how did you know to go to Apartment 1F?

 8          A     Um, because I had, well, the person that I was, who was

 9   walking with, who had the walking list, he had this apartment in

10   this building and said we walk into this place and knock on the

11   door.      And then that's how I knew this was the place to be.

12          Q     And when you were in building, you knew it was 1976

13   Ocean Avenue, correct?

14                        MR. GLASER:   Objection.

15          A     I followed the person with whom I was --

16          Q     But you knew what building you were inside of, didn't

17   you?

18          A     Um, I remember what building.      At the time, I knew what

19   building I was in.

20          Q     Okay.

21          A     Whatever building it was, at the time I remember, yes.

22          Q     So the person signed sheet number one, and were you

23   able after the person signed --

24          A     Actually, can I say at the time that I doubt it was the

25   wrong building.        At the time that I doubt that, I thought it was

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 160

 1   1576.    Because it turned out to have been the wrong address

 2   written down.       The new one that was written down.

 3       Q       I'm not sure that I follow you, but we'll get to it.

 4       A       Okay.

 5       Q       We'll get there.

 6               After line one was signed, was the sheet handed back?

 7       A       Either to myself or to the person with me, but probably

 8   to myself.

 9       Q       Okay.

10               And were you able to read the signature?

11       A       I just saw that there was a signature.       A lot of times

12   you can read the signatures, and a lot of times you cannot read

13   the signature.

14       Q       Can you see, there's a blank under the signature?      You

15   see that?

16       A       Yes, I do.

17       Q       And there's a name printed in that blank?

18       A       I do.

19       Q       Okay.

20               And you are aware, were you not, that the reason for

21   that blank is to print the name of a signer, if you want?         You

22   understood that?

23       A       No.   That was the same line under the date, if you look

24   at it.    So you don't have to print anything under there, unless

25   you want to.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 161

 1       Q     Correct.    That's what I said.

 2       A     Or you could put down last name, top first name.      Like

 3   someone yesterday that we discussed.

 4       Q     Okay.

 5             We're talking about this signature, who wrote in Hilda

 6   Danger?

 7       A     I wrote in Hilda Danger.

 8       Q     When did you write that in?

 9       A     Later that day, when I was witnessing the signatures.

10       Q     Was there a reason that you didn't write it in right

11   there on the spot?

12       A     A lot of times I didn't because especially if it was

13   the end of the day or it was just busy, not busy but whatever, a

14   lot of times you just did it.

15       Q     Were you planning on getting more signatures on the

16   sheet and you were hurrying on to the next appointment?

17       A     We were in the building, so we were knocking on what

18   apartments there were in this building.

19       Q     And your testimony was that you had a signature,

20   couldn't read it the way this person signed and you did not take

21   the time at that point in time just to print the name of the

22   person who you just witnessed get the signature?

23                     MR. GLASER:    Objection.

24                     THE COURT:    What's the objection?

25                     MR. GLASER:    He's characterizing his testimony the

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 162

 1       way he wants to characterize it.

 2                   THE COURT:    You remember that conversation we just

 3       had.

 4                   MR. GLASER:    His testimony should be --

 5                   THE COURT:    Playing to the Court.   I understand

 6       your point.    Now, let's move on.

 7                   No, no.   Next question.

 8       Q      So, and at what point in time did you notice that the

 9   resident address was initially incorrect?

10       A      Well, with, when I looked to see who it was, to put in

11   the, that I, when I reviewed it, my own signatures later on at

12   the end of day, I noticed that somebody didn't put down that you

13   can't really tell.    So I suggested, Let's see who that.

14              Because, you know, these are people that I never seen

15   before.    So how would I know who they are?

16              So I looked to see who was there.   I saw that there's a

17   name that look like a first letter is an H.     That has more or

18   less the same number of, if you look at how it's written up, you

19   can't really see; but the number of letters is more or less the

20   same as Danger.    It is Apartment 12, it is on a building on that

21   block.

22              So it seems logical to me this is the person.    And

23   since there's no one else there, then this is the person, and we

24   must've walked into the wrong building, which has happened

25   before.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 163

 1       Q       And when you were --

 2       A       Not the wrong building.         Written down the wrong

 3   building.

 4       Q       When you did this process of reviewing, where was that

 5   done?

 6       A       Where was that done?

 7       Q       Yeah.

 8       A       I believe it was over the, back in my apartment.

 9       Q       Back in your apartment?

10       A       I'm not sure.    It could be either apartment or office

11   somewhere.    But it was, it was at some point later and I don't

12   remember.

13       Q       Did you have a copy of the walking-around list that had

14   the name of the voters you were going to solicit on July 6th?

15                       MR. GLASER:    Your Honor.

16       A       At what point are you?

17       Q       At the point that you took the signature?

18       A       Like I said, there was a person with whom I was walking

19   who had the walking list.          I followed him.

20               At the end of the day, when I was --

21                       THE COURT:    Did you have the list?      Do you

22       remember?        The question is asked.      Answer it.

23                       THE WITNESS:    Okay.

24                       Yes.

25       Q       And --

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 164

 1                   MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, I know that it's to --

 2       not as to this question but there are times, there were

 3       times in the last four questions where Mr. Storobin, I

 4       don't believe, finished his question.

 5                   THE COURT:    Okay.

 6                   Allow him to.

 7                   MR. MANDELKER:    Of course.   Thank you.

 8                   THE COURT:    And let's keep them brief, if

 9       possible.

10                   THE WITNESS:    Okay.

11       Q     And, Senator, after you obtained signatures, do you

12   know if you or the person that was with you checked the name off

13   the walking-list so you know this is not someone that you have

14   to approach again?

15       A     We wouldn't normally check, or at least myself

16   personally check-off apartment numbers or buildings.        Because

17   you would just walk in a building; so from bottom to top or from

18   top to bottom, then you would know.

19             You just, in the sixth floor, the fourth floor or the

20   first floor, second, third.      So you just know, just because you

21   finished the floor.

22       Q     So this was your district, correct; and, you are

23   familiar with the buildings in it?

24       A     It is my district.     It is, pretty much has 20,000

25   people.   So I'm not familiar with every single building.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 165

 1       Q      And, again, I ask you when you went to collect this

 2   signature, as you sit here today, do you remember what building

 3   you were in to collect the signature that appears on line one,

 4   sheet 30, volume 201?

 5       A      I do visually.

 6              I don't remember the buildings number right now.        I

 7   just don't recall it.

 8              I can, if I were there, I would point out the building.

 9              I know the building right now.      I know the building by

10   sight right now.      But I just don't remember the address.

11       Q      So now, let's go back to the subscriber witness

12   statement, because we discussed the subscriber witness statement

13   on other, on other sheets and you understood this was the same

14   subscriber witness statement that appears on the other sheets,

15   correct?

16       A      Yeah.

17       Q      And you understand that you are saying equivalent to an

18   affidavit, that the person signed in your presence and

19   identified himself or herself to you, correct?         That's what you

20   were saying you understood that by signing this sheet?

21       A      That's right.

22                      MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, note my objection.

23                      Do we need to go over this again?

24                      THE COURT:    Approach.

25                      (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 166

 1       record.)

 2                    MR. MANDELKER:    Can I have just a minute, your

 3       Honor?

 4                    I'm going to try to further shorten the

 5       examination.

 6                    THE COURT:    That would be appreciated.

 7                    (Pause in proceedings.)

 8       Q    Could you look at sheet number 40 in volume 201?

 9       A    In volume 201?

10       Q    201, sir.

11            And sheet 28 in volume 201.

12       A    28 and 40?

13       Q    Yes, 28 and 40.

14                    MR. GLASER:    I'm sorry, I lost you.

15                    MR. MANDELKER:    28 and 40 in volume 201.

16       A    Yes, I do see it.

17       Q    Okay.

18            An I'll try to shorten this.

19            Were you the describing witness on both sheets?

20       A    Yes.

21       Q    And did you see the people who signed those sheets, did

22   they sign in your presence?

23       A    Again, my procedure was the same every time, to make

24   sure that they signed in, means I don't remember these

25   particular people.    But if they signed, then they signed in my

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 167

 1   presence.

 2       Q       I just want to go back for one final question on a

 3   previous sheet, number 30.

 4               Am I correct that initially you didn't remember the

 5   circumstances concerning obtaining the signature on line 30, it

 6   was only after you reviewed it and were reminded that you were

 7   able to remember the circumstances; is that correct?

 8       A       Yes.    After I went to that block and that building.

 9       Q       Okay.

10               So now, on sheet 40, did you, on sheet 40 request you

11   write in the date?

12       A       On sheet 40?

13       Q       Yes.    The date on line one?

14                       MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, I'm just having a little

15       bit of a disadvantage because whatever pages we are talking

16       about --

17                       MR. MANDELKER:    Here.   Here.   Look.

18                       Be my guest.

19       A       (Perusing.)

20               It does look -- um.      I think I did.    I'm not certain

21   but it looks like it's me.

22       Q       Okay.

23               And the address to the right of line one?

24       A       That's mine.    I wrote it.

25       Q       And all the material in the subscribing witness

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 168

 1   statement, is that you?

 2       A    That's mine.

 3       Q    Okay.

 4            And if we could look at sheet, what was the other sheet

 5   that I said?

 6       A    28?

 7       Q    28.    Yes.

 8       A    Yeah.

 9       Q    You filled out the entire subscribing witness

10   statement?

11       A    It looks like it, yes.    That's my handwriting.

12       Q    And did you fill out the dates for the signers?

13       A    It looks like most of them, most or all of them were

14   signed by me.    I'm not sure of one of them.

15       Q    Okay.

16            How about the residence addresses on sheet 28?

17       A    Not all of them were written by me.    Some of them were

18   definitely written by other people.

19            The last two, and I think the first one as well

20   definitely don't look like it's my handwriting.

21       Q    And whatever you filled out, did you fill out while you

22   were out in the field or at the end of the day, either back in

23   your apartment or wherever?

24       A    The address normally -- not normally, the address I

25   would fill out on the spot.

         Storobin - Direct - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker 169

 1       Q       Could you tell me -- we're talking about 28, right?

 2   Sheet 28?

 3       A       28, yes.

 4       Q       Is there a reason that you filled out the address on

 5   the spot on sheet 28 but did not fill out the address on the

 6   spot in sheet 30 of 201?

 7                       MR. GLASER:    Your Honor.

 8       A       That's incorrect characterization of what I just said.

 9   That is not what I testified to.

10       Q       I misunderstood then.      Please correct me.

11                       MR. GLASER:    Objection.

12                       THE COURT:    Overruled.

13       A       Okay.

14               I would always fill out the address on the spot.    It is

15   just when I went to see who was the name of the person filled

16   in, who was the name of the person who signed that signature on

17   page 30.

18               When I concluded, based on the first letter, based on

19   length of the name, based on the same apartment, based on

20   everything that this is the person, and given that there was no

21   other signatures in that building, my conclusion was that this

22   must be the person.

23               And I probably messed up the address.     But, you know,

24   sometimes you just mess up the address when you are walking

25   building to building one day.

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser          170

 1             So that's when I corrected it.      I wrote it down on the

 2   spot, but I corrected at some point later when I figured out I

 3   made a mistake.

 4       Q     So just so I followed, you originally wrote down

 5   something else and later on when you thought you were correct,

 6   you obliterated it?

 7                     THE COURT:    You made a mistake?

 8                     THE WITNESS:   Yeah, I thought I made a mistake.

 9                     MR. MANDELKER:    I just want to make --

10                     THE COURT:    He made a mistake.    Let's move on.

11                     MR. MANDELKER:    Okay, your witness.

12                     THE COURT:    Good.

13                     MR. GLASER:    Actually, if you don't mind, can I

14       use the lectern, if that's okay?

15                     THE COURT:    Fine.



18       Q     Good morning, Senator Storobin.

19       A     Good morning.

20       Q     Are you a member of bar of the State of New York?

21       A     I am.

22       Q     And how long have you been a member of the bar of the

23   State of New York?

24       A     I guess eight years or so.

25       Q     And you consider yourself to be an officer of the

              Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       171

 1   Court?

 2       A       Absolutely.

 3       Q       And you know you put your license on the line every

 4   time you testify, correct?

 5       A       Yes.

 6       Q       And can you tell us what your work is, as an attorney

 7   involves?

 8       A       Um, well, it's mostly family court stuff; so child

 9   support, child custody, orders of protection.

10               We also have some criminal cases.    We also did some

11   other cases in the firm as well.

12       Q       And just based on what I just said, you understand what

13   the penalties of perjury with respect to your testimony?

14       A       Absolutely.

15       Q       And that also includes filling in an affirmation or

16   affidavit?

17       A       Yes.

18       Q       What else do you do for a living?

19       A       I'm also a New York State Senator.

20       Q       What does your work as a New York State Senator

21   involve?

22       A       Well, there are two parts of it.     I guess there's the

23   Albany part and the district part.

24               The Albany part of it is voting for/against laws,

25   sponsor, argue for/against them.

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      172

 1             And then, there's the district where you are helping

 2   out a bunch of people that are walking in with anything from the

 3   lights going out in their buildings to their social security

 4   checks got delayed, to everything else, to every other problem

 5   that they might have.

 6       Q     Now, sir, Senator, you did collect signatures on a

 7   petition designating you as candidate for New York State Senate?

 8       A     Yes, I did.

 9       Q     And I believe, is it fair to say you collected

10   somewhere between 30, 30 and 35 signatures?

11       A     I think it is closer to 30.   I think it is about 30.

12       Q     Why did you personally collect signatures?

13       A     Because all of the other people were out collecting

14   signatures for me.   All the Republican clubs and volunteers and

15   people not involved in politics, coming in and volunteering.

16                  THE COURT:   And it was a hundred degrees, and he

17       wanted to set a good example.

18                  I remember all of that, yesterday.

19                  THE WITNESS:    And, yes, essentially I want to show

20       out there, I'm out there in 100-degree temperature.     I not

21       relaxing when they are working.

22       Q     Is it fair to say you don't even know all the people

23   that brought the signatures?

24       A     I know some of the people, but I don't know all of

25   them.   Because legislative, um, Republican Club gets their

                Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       173

 1   volunteers.

 2                 I don't necessarily, probably I will not know them at

 3   all.       But nonetheless, you want at least the leader of the club

 4   to know that I'm doing it.       Not that they are sending out their

 5   people while I'm relaxing.

 6          Q      And we believe we all know that you don't remember some

 7   of the names, correct?

 8          A      Some of the other names, I don't remember.

 9                 If someone is representing a club, not any assembly

10   district, how would I?      Because they are divided by assembly

11   districts.

12          Q      I know, but some names you don't remember, right?

13          A      Yes.

14          Q      Okay.

15                 Did you need those 30 to 35 signatures to qualify for

16   the ballot?

17          A      We got more than double the number of signatures.     We

18   submitted more than double the number of signatures that we

19   needed.      So without those 30 signatures, we would still have

20   more than double the number of signatures.

21                 So, no, absolutely not.

22          Q      Did you have a practice and procedure for collecting

23   signatures when you arrive at someone's door?

24          A      Well, I would knock on door.   Someone would open the

25   door.      I would introduce myself.

              Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser    174

 1              I would ask them if they're, they are a Republican.     If

 2   they said, yes, I would ask they will to sign for me.

 3              If they agreed, they would sign.   And we would move on

 4   to the next house or apartment.

 5       Q      And did you have a practice and procedure for doing

 6   something on a petition page after you collected a signature?

 7       A      Um, in terms, you mean, in terms of residence and that

 8   part?

 9       Q      Well, yeah, after they signed, what did you do?

10       A      Well, if they didn't fill out the residence, I would

11   make sure to fill out the residence.    Because I was told that I

12   have to do that.

13              So that part, I did on the spot as well.

14       Q      Did you also have a practice and procedure for filling

15   out, printing in names near a signer's name?

16       A      Sometimes.   Most of the time, I did it later, just

17   because you wanted to kind of go ahead and get out of the

18   100-degree heat.

19       Q      Is it true that all of the signatures, all the

20   signatures except for one contained a printed name on it that

21   you collected?

22       A      I believe all of them or, I mean maybe there's one that

23   isn't.    But probably, yeah.

24       Q      So is it fair to say that practice and procedure was to

25   have each and every signer have a printed name near it?

              Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser     175

 1       A      I tried to make it easier for the BOE so there's no

 2   confusion, but yeah.

 3       Q      Okay.

 4       A      That backfired, huh?

 5       Q      Okay.

 6              Well, did you ever come to learn that you could have

 7   left it blank?

 8       A      Ah.

 9       Q      Or -- withdrawn.

10              Did you know at the time that you could have left it

11   blank?

12       A      I wasn't sure.   Nobody instructed me on the names.

13              I was told that I needed to get the signature, the date

14   and the residence.

15              There was nothing for, there was no column, really, for

16   the actual name.

17       Q      Okay.

18              Did you ever collect the signature of the Hilda Danger?

19       A      No.

20       Q      Well, how do you know?

21       A      Um, well, because it may have entered the news that she

22   is no longer alive.

23       Q      And you never got to know a Hilda Danger either,

24   correct?

25       A      No.

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      176

 1       Q     When did you first become aware of the name Hilda

 2   Danger?

 3       A     Um, well, I guess when I saw the walking sheets.

 4   Although, at the time, I didn't really remember.

 5             The first time that I actually remembered is when this

 6   whole thing happened.

 7       Q     Okay.   And did someone sign a petition -- withdrawn.

 8             With respect to what was just discussed on direct, did

 9   somebody else's signature appear over the line where Hilda

10   Danger's name was printed?

11       A     Yes.

12       Q     Who signed that petition?

13       A     Michail Issak.

14       Q     And when did Michail Issak sign the petition?

15       A     On that date.

16             Let me just look.    I think it is 7/6.   July 6.

17       Q     Okay.

18             And tell us what you did when you first went to Michael

19   Issak's door?

20       A     I didn't hear you.

21       Q     What did you do when you went to Michael Issak's door?

22       A     Michail Issak.

23             Well, the way I said that, the way it works -- not the

24   way it works, but the way we did it, first we went to this

25   apartment, Hilda Danger.   Then we went to some doors, 1E.    Spoke

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser     177

 1   to a person there.   She said it is not them.

 2             Then I spoke to other people on the floor.    They said

 3   it wasn't them.   Some of them opened.    Some of them didn't.

 4   Most of them didn't.

 5             Then we went to other buildings there, because I

 6   remember being there.    So I went to different Apartment 1F.     And

 7   one of them, a person opened the door and when I said, Hi, is

 8   this your signature?    That person identified the signature and

 9   then signed a letter saying, This is my signature.     And that

10   signature matched.

11       Q     Let's stay with when you first went to him.

12             Can you tell us what happened when you first went to

13   his door, what you did you do?     What did he say to you?

14                  MR. MANDELKER:    Excuse me, I'm going to be object

15       to the person that is not on the stand said to this witness

16       to be offered to the proof of the truth of the matter

17       obtained in the statement.

18                  THE COURT:    Sustained.

19       Q     What did you do when you first went to Mr. Issak's

20   door?

21       A     I knocked on the door.    A man and a woman -- woman

22   actually, opened the door.    Then a man also came up to the door.

23   I asked, Are these, either one of your signatures?     And, the

24   signature was identified.

25                  MR. MANDELKER:    Objection to, The signature was

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      178

 1       identified.

 2                  THE COURT:   What do you mean by that?

 3                  THE WITNESS:   Well, I asked, Is this your

 4       signature?    And the person says, Yes, it is my signature.

 5                  THE COURT:   All right.

 6                  Let's continue.

 7       Q     Do you remember the address?

 8       A     God, I remember there was an ark in the buildings there

 9   when you walk in.

10                  THE COURT:   An address, do you remember that, the

11       address?

12                  THE WITNESS:   I think it's -- I don't remember it

13       right now.    I don't remember it right now.

14                  THE COURT:   Okay.

15       Q     If I asked you if it was 1569 Ocean Avenue, would that

16   be correct?

17                  MR. MANDELKER:    Objection.

18                  He's leading his own witness.

19                  THE COURT:   Would that refresh your recollection?

20                  THE WITNESS:   I believe that's the building

21       number, yes.

22       Q     And I believe you said there was somebody else with

23   her, with -- I'm sorry, with Michael Issak, correct?

24       A     Michail Issak.

25       Q     Michail Issak?

              Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      179

 1        A     Yes.

 2        Q     Do you recall if there was somebody else there in the

 3   apartment?

 4        A     There was a woman who looked like she resides there,

 5   based on the clothing and the demeanor and the way that she

 6   behaved.    She felt very comfortable being there.

 7        Q     Okay.   And, sir, you believe that -- well, withdrawn.

 8              Can you tell us why this Hilda Danger's name is printed

 9   under Michael Issak's signature?    Michail Issak's signature?

10        A     Well, if you look at the signature, the first letter is

11   an M there, which if you look, it looks very much, very much

12   like an H.

13              And I would like to show it to anybody, but if you sign

14   something in an M and an H, especially on a signature look very,

15   very similar.

16              It is signed in a very cursive-type of signature.

17              Also, you look at last names of the two people.   They

18   also look about the same length.    So, and also the, right after

19   the H, there's like a big letter.    Well, what I perceive as an

20   H.   There's also a big letter that I perceive like a D because

21   it is kind of like -- that's what it looks to me.

22              And that's why I figure that's the person.

23        Q     Did you ever go back to Michael Issak's apartment,

24   Michail Issak's apartment after you collected his signature?

25        A     Like I said, I knocked on the door twice.    That's the

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser         180

 1   person who signature, the person identified, the signature, and

 2   that's when I was there.

 3       Q     Okay, slow down.

 4       A     Yes.

 5       Q     You went back to his apartment, right?

 6       A     Yes.

 7       Q     What was the reason for you going back to his

 8   apartment?

 9       A     Like I said, I went to all the apartments 1F, as well

10   as all the apartments on the same floor in 1576 to investigate

11   what exactly happened.

12       Q     And when you say what exactly happened, this was after

13   you learned an article or -- that you learned there was some

14   issue with one of the signatures, correct?

15       A     Yes.   This was a little over a week ago.

16       Q     And so what happened when you went there?

17       A     Like I said, I knocked on the door.        I asked the person

18   if this is their signature.       He identified --

19                    MR. MANDELKER:    Objection to whatever the person

20       responded.

21                    THE COURT:   Sustained.

22                    THE WITNESS:   Okay.

23                    I asked if this was the signature, and then I

24       left.

25       Q     Was the signature identified as Mr. Issak's?

         Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       181

 1   A     Yes, it was.

 2              MR. MANDELKER:    Objection.

 3              THE COURT:    Overruled.

 4   Q     Did you obtain a statement of Mr. Issak?

 5   A     Yes, I did.

 6              MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, can we approach.

 7              (Whereupon, a sidebar conference was held off the

 8   record.)

 9              THE COURT:    All right, let's continue.

10              MR. MANDELKER:    So, your Honor, for purposes of

11   the record, I object to the introduction of that document.

12   It is hearsay.

13              THE COURT:    It is being accepted subject to

14   connection.

15              MR. GLASER:    Can I have this marked, your Honor?

16   And, counsel, has already seen it.

17              (Whereupon, document is so marked as Respondent's

18   Exhibit A in evidence.)

19              THE COURT:    Mark.

20              MR. GLASER:    Is it Respondent's A?

21              THE COURT OFFICER:    Yes.

22   Q     I show you what has been marked as --

23              (Whereupon, a brief recess was taken after which

24   the proceedings continued as follows:)

25   Q     Do you recognize what that document is?

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser          182

 1       A     Yes, I do.

 2       Q     What is it?

 3       A     It's, it's a statement that --

 4                     MR. MANDELKER:    Your Honor, I object to any

 5       questions about the document.

 6                     It speaks for itself.      And if the witness ever

 7       comes in, perhaps counsel can ask the witness.

 8                     THE COURT:    Overruled.

 9       A     It's a statement written by this person that we were

10   just discussing, Michail Issak, who said that this is his

11   signature and who said that he signed the Republican signature

12   on July 6th and that he signed under it after identifying the

13   signature.

14       Q     But just so it's clear, when you say written by him,

15   signed by him or something else?

16       A     Ah, it is signed by him.      And also his name is spelled

17   out by him.

18       Q     And who prepared the statement for him to sign?

19       A     I believe I was the one who just printed it out when I

20   went there to find out who was there, to see it's some other

21   person.

22       Q     And was this signature obtained at 1576 Ocean Avenue?

23       A     Apartment 1F, yes.

24       Q     Okay.

25                     MR. GLASER:    And can I just ask that that

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser         183

 1       statement, along with the petition sheet itself be

 2       published to your Honor?

 3                     THE COURT:    I saw it.

 4                     MR. GLASER:    Okay, in other words, you saw what it

 5       compares to, correct?

 6                     THE COURT:    Yes.

 7       Q       Okay -- withdrawn.

 8               Can you tell us the reason you changed the address when

 9   you were at Mr. Issak's apartment?

10       A       No.

11       Q       Withdrawn.

12               Can you tell us the reason why you changed the address

13   some time after you were at Mr. Issak's apartment when you

14   collected his petition signature?

15       A       Because when I was reviewing all the petitions for that

16   day and the previous day and reviewing it now with opposing

17   counsel's testifying, I perceived that, I witnessed that day for

18   a bunch of these folks.        When I was reviewing it, I saw there

19   was no name.

20               There's, it's going to be difficult to identify based

21   on the signature.     Because the person didn't really spell out

22   the name.    It looked like scribble.       I don't know, the first

23   letter.   And at that point, I looked to see what it is.       And I

24   figured they just messed up the address.

25               So I, so that's what happened.

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       184

 1       Q      And that was a mistake?

 2       A      Yes.

 3       Q      Incidentally, can you explain why you started a new

 4   petition sheet with regard to where Mr. Issak's signature

 5   appears?

 6       A      Because I just showed up there and I was given a

 7   petition sheet of the person that I just met there.

 8       Q      Now, sir, did you sign the witness statement for each

 9   and every signature you collected?

10       A      Did I sign it?    Yes.

11       Q      Can you tell us why some of the sheets were complete

12   and some weren't?

13       A      Because sometimes you just finish to go have lunch.       Or

14   get a break.      Or because it's hot.   Or because I have my Senate

15   responsibilities.      Or because I have my attorney

16   responsibilities.      Or for a multitude of reasons.

17              You can stop at some point, and then restart either

18   later that day or on another day.

19       Q      Did you ever come to learn there was any requirement

20   for completing a petition sheet?

21       A      I don't believe there's such requirement.     That would

22   be news to me right now.

23       Q      And you can, as far as you know, you can start as many

24   petition sheets as you want to submit, as long as the witness

25   statements are correct?      Correct?

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      185

 1       A     Yes.

 2       Q     And you have to just put the number signatures that you

 3   took down at the bottom, correct?

 4       A     Yes.

 5       Q     And when people sign your petition and you witness the

 6   signature, did they always sign in your presence?

 7       A     Yes.

 8       Q     Every single time, right?

 9       A     Yes.

10       Q     And did you need to collect your own signatures?

11       A     Like I said, we submitted more than double the number

12   of signatures.

13                    THE COURT:   That's not the question.

14                    THE WITNESS:   I didn't need to submit, I didn't

15       need to submit them because we would still have, even with

16       out my signatures more than double the amount of

17       signatures.

18       Q     And, Senator, was the signature that Mr. Issak signed,

19   where he mistakenly wrote in Helga Danger, a extremely important

20   signature to you or was it just one of 100 signatures -- I will

21   withdraw the question.

22       A     It was not important at all.    Besides it was not any

23   more important than any of the other 2100 signatures that we

24   collected.   It was the same value as everyone else.

25       Q     Well, window you have expected to make it on the ballot

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       186

 1   without Mr. Issak's signature?

 2       A     Absolutely.

 3       Q     And was -- well, was that signature so important to you

 4   that you would risk your position as a New York State Senator

 5   and your law license?

 6       A     Senate, not assemblyman.

 7       Q     Would you consider that signature so important that you

 8   would risk your seat in the New York State Senate and your law

 9   license on?

10       A     No.   Of course not.     No.

11       Q     Was there any reason you needed to commit fraud on the

12   petition to qualify for the ballot?

13       A     No.   Absolutely not.

14       Q     All right.

15       A     I wouldn't do it, even if there was a reason.      But

16   there was no reason.

17       Q     Okay.

18             Well, explain what you mean by that.

19       A     That, well --

20                     THE COURT:    He did.

21                     Next question.

22                     MR. GLASER:    Okay.

23       Q     Well, did you ever learn that your petition was in

24   jeopardy of not qualifying for the ballot?

25                     THE COURT:    Isn't that why we're here?

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser      187

 1       A     When I showed up --

 2                    MR. GLASER:   Well, I'm withdraw it.

 3       Q     Did you learn there was a clerk's report indicating

 4   that you had 1,400, more than 1460 signatures for the allot?

 5       A     Yes.   We had more than 50 percent ballot signatures

 6   than we actually needed.

 7       Q     And I want you to assume, sir, that a handwriting

 8   expert will come into court and testify that you have committed

 9   fraud, would that be true or untrue?

10       A     That would be absolutely false.

11       Q     Sir, is it fair to say that a majority of the

12   signatures collected on behalf of your campaign was not

13   maintained in your own office during the petition drive?

14             I changed the question.    It is clear, I said in your

15   own office as opposed to by your own office.

16       A     That's a fair statement.    Most of them were not my

17   campaign office.

18       Q     Where did the signatures come from?

19       A     There were multiple operations going.    Obviously, we

20   had some people.    Like I mentioned yesterday, some of our

21   volunteers or paid workers.

22             In addition to that Republican clubs, there's, they are

23   like separately-based clubs that went out and collected

24   petitions.

25             They are also Young Republican Club.    Two Republican

              Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser     188

 1   clubs.     Both of them collected signatures for us.

 2               There were also other candidates whose districts were

 3   also overlapping with mine, who also collected signatures.

 4               And there were also some Republican people who also

 5   helped both myself and other candidates as well.

 6       Q       And how did you, how do you know -- I mean, generally

 7   how do you know the practice and procedure you employed by your

 8   campaign for collecting petition signatures?

 9       A       How do you know?

10       Q       How do you know, is it from personal knowledge or --

11       A       I don't know because I wasn't beyond getting like 30

12   signatures myself.      I wasn't really involved in the petition

13   process.

14       Q       But when you explained about the practice and procedure

15   in general for collecting the petition signatures, where they

16   were kept, how did you come to learn about those things?

17       A       Just speaking to people.

18       Q       Like who?

19       A       Different people like Jacob Kornbluh and the chairman

20   and district club, district leaders.     And just random people.

21   Everyone that was involved I guess.     Not everyone.

22               That was involved at the management of some part of

23   that operation?    Yes.

24       Q       And where was the signatures ultimately brought for

25   binding?

             Storobin - Cross - Respondent/Petitioner -Glaser       189

 1       A       They were binded in the chairman's -- I'm not sure, to

 2   be honest, in the chairman's law office or in the GOP

 3   headquarters.    But one of those offices.     I just don't know

 4   which one.    I wasn't there.

 5               Some signatures were from our office originally.       That

 6   was minority of signatures.       Most of the signature weren't in

 7   our office.    They were route --

 8       Q       Were those signatures maintained in your office until

 9   the time for bonding?

10       A       Some of them.   I'm not sure.

11               Actually, I think most of them.    I'm just not sure.

12       Q       Most of the signatures that were collected by your

13   office?

14       A       I think they were kept in a --    a minority of

15   signatures that overall were collected were collected by our

16   campaign.

17               Most of those, or all of those, I'm not sure, were

18   still kept in the office for a while until they were brought to

19   the chairman, the law chairman at some point.

20               I'm not sure when, but I think it is on the date it was

21   binded.

22       Q       All right.

23               And with respect to Michail Issak's signature where Ms.

24   Danger's name appears underneath the signature --

25                    MR. MANDELKER:    Objection to the characterization.

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1                   THE COURT:    Yes, sustained.

 2       Q    With respect to Michail Issak's signature --

 3                   MR. MANDELKER:    Objection to the characterization.

 4                   THE COURT:    No, continue.

 5       Q    With respect to Michael Issak's signature, did you

 6   blame anyone but yourself with regard to the mistake that was

 7   made on that sheet?

 8       A    No.    Of course, not.

 9            I blame myself for making the mistake to the degree

10   that it was collected, and the mistake was made.     And it is my

11   handwriting.

12            The only person that I could possibly point the finger

13   to is myself.

14       Q    Is it fair to say it was in fact a mistake?

15       A    Yes.

16                   MR. GLASER:    I have nothing further.

17                   THE COURT:    Anything else?

18                   MR. MANDELKER:    Oh, yes.



21       Q    Sir, could you look at sheets number 47 and 20 --

22       A    Which book are we talking about?

23       Q    199.

24       A    199, (perusing).

25       Q    199, sheets 47 and 23.

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1       A    One second.

 2            (Pause.)

 3       A    I'm looking at --       I'm looking at them, yes.

 4       Q    And sheet 30 of volume 201?

 5       A    I'm looking at that one also.

 6       Q    And those signatures were all collected on July 6th,

 7   were they not?

 8                    MR. GLASER:    Objection, your Honor.

 9                    I don't know how this relates to my

10       cross-examination.

11                    THE COURT:    The sheets you just mentioned, they

12       were not challenged, were they?

13                    MR. MANDELKER:    He testified about them in his

14       direct examination.        These are the signatures that --

15                    THE COURT:    I will permit it.

16                    MR. MANDELKER:    Okay.

17       Q    Is it not a fact that the signature on sheet 30 in

18   volume 201 was collected after the signatures on the other two

19   sheets were collected?

20       A    I believe so.

21       Q    Okay.

22            And did I understand -- is it your testimony that you

23   went back to the building where this signature on sheet 30, or

24   you went to the building where the signature on sheet 30 was

25   collected for the purpose of collecting a signature?

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1       A    Yeah, I went to all these buildings for that reason.

 2       Q    And about what time of day was that?

 3       A    I don't remember.      But it was later in the day.

 4       Q    Later in the day.

 5            Okay, now, let's go forward to the time you completed

 6   the subscribing witness statement for sheet 30.

 7            At what time was that completed?

 8       A    I didn't hear the question.         I'm sorry.

 9       Q    What time did you complete the subscribing witness

10   statement on sheet 30 in volume 201?

11       A    I mean, it was several hours later.         Because we weren't

12   going out, well, first.

13       Q    Is the answer several hours later?

14                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

15       A    Easily several hours later because --

16                    THE COURT:    Once again, try to answer the question

17       that was asked.

18       A    Yes.

19       Q    Okay.

20            What did Michail Issak look like, what does he look

21   like?

22       A    Um.

23       Q    First of all, he's a man, correct?

24       A    He's a man, yes.

25       Q    How tall is he --

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1          A      Ah.

 2          Q      -- compared to your height?        Taller?   Shorter?   Same

 3   height?

 4          A      At least the same.     Maybe an inch or two taller.

 5          Q      What about his weight compared to you?          Heavier than

 6   you?       Lighter than you?

 7          A      I guess, again, about the same or a little heavier.

 8          Q      Okay.

 9                 And how about his age, again, compared to your age?

10          A      I'm pretty sure he's older than me.          Not old but middle

11   age.

12          Q      Middle age.    40's or 50's something like that?

13          A      I would assume.

14          Q      Okay.

15                 And what about his voice?     Was it deep?      Was it loud?

16          A      It was regular.

17          Q      Regular voice?

18          A      It was a regular voice.

19          Q      Okay.

20                 So now could you tell me how is it that when you --

21   withdrawn.

22                 And your testimony is that on July 6th, it was Michail

23   Issak, not Hilda Danger, who signed line one of sheet 30 of

24   volume 201, correct?

25                         MR. GLASER:   Objection.

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1                    THE COURT:   Overruled.

 2       A     Can you repeat that?

 3       Q     Is it your testimony that the person who signed line

 4   one on sheet 30 of volume 201 was Michail Issak?

 5       A     Yes.

 6       Q     Could you tell me then why when you completed the

 7   sheet, you couldn't remember that the person who signed it was a

 8   man who was approximately your height, middle-aged, dark hair,

 9   approximately your weight?

10       A     Because when I was reviewing them, I had a whole bunch

11   of petitions in front of me from that day and from the previous

12   days.   Which, as you might remember yesterday, we looked at

13   them, that I witnessed them on that day as well.

14             And I didn't remember any of those people.      And I

15   couldn't connect the signature to a face.

16             It wasn't that I knew that the person's name is this or

17   this is the person.    It was a scribbled out signature that I

18   couldn't connect to anyone.     Because -- and that's why I went

19   looking on the walk list.

20       Q     Sir, did you remember that you collected signatures on

21   three sheets on July 6th and on only one of them, sheet number

22   30, was there only one signature?     Did you remember?   Did you

23   remember that?

24       A     No.    Because we also, I also went with the, at the same

25   time --

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1                  THE COURT:    Objection.

 2       Q     Well --

 3                  THE COURT:    He hasn't finish his answer.

 4                  MR. MANDELKER:    Oh, I thought that was the end of

 5       it.

 6       A     I was also helping other volunteers for other reasons.

 7   There were other things that happened.

 8             No, I absolutely didn't remember each signature,

 9   particularly when I couldn't tell the name.

10             If there was a name, maybe something would, you know,

11   recall my recollection.     But you can't really see anything

12   beyond the first letter.

13       Q     So, just to be clear, as you sit here today, your

14   testimony is that when you completed the subscribing witness

15   statement on sheet 30; you had no recollection that several

16   hours earlier, a man had signed the only sheet that you

17   witnessed that only had a single signature?    Is that your

18   testimony?

19                  MR. GLASER:    Objection.

20                  THE COURT:    Overruled.

21       A     It wasn't the only signature that we got at that time.

22   I was walking with other volunteers that were getting different

23   signatures.   If they weren't the ones getting, so they were the

24   ones witnessing.

25             Sometimes it was me holding them, at which time I would

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1   be witnessing it.    But, and like I said, I was also witnessing

 2   for multiple days.    On that day, which you were aware of.

 3            So, no, I could absolutely not recall looking at the

 4   signature who it is because, like I said, it is scribbled beyond

 5   the first letter.

 6       Q    Sir, could you tell me who you accompanied, who was

 7   getting signatures, who were the other subscribing witness that

 8   you accompanied, that you were getting signatures, that were

 9   getting signatures for you?

10       A    The person that I believe right now accompanied me, his

11   name is Eugene Pepsner (ph.).   I believe he was the person who

12   was with me at the time when I was walking.

13       Q    I thought you just said that in addition to the

14   signatures on which you were the subscribing witness, you

15   accompanied other people as they were getting signatures?

16       A    Eugene was also getting signatures.

17       Q    Anybody else other than -- I forgot the gentleman's

18   name, and I don't want to mispronounce it?

19       A    Let me put it this way, every time I went out to get

20   signatures, I was always with somebody.   I specifically advised,

21   it doesn't look good for a senator to be seen alone.

22            If they were out with me, I might knock on door 1-A and

23   they might knock on door 1-C or something.

24       Q    Who were those people who were accompanying me?

25       A    Who were those people?

        Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1       Q     Yes.

 2       A     Friends, family.

 3       Q     Names?

 4       A     Volunteers.

 5                    MR. GLASER:    Come on.    Objection.   Could we move

 6       on.

 7                    THE COURT:    Did you say it doesn't look good for a

 8       senator to be without someone?

 9                    THE WITNESS:   That's what I was told when I'm out

10       campaigning or out, I should be with somebody.

11                    THE COURT:    All right.

12                    THE WITNESS:   That's what I'm saying.     If I'm ever

13       out there, have someone with me.

14                    MR. MANDELKER:    All right.

15       Q     Now, just a few questions to follow up.

16             You said that, I believe, slightly more than a half of

17   the signatures were collected by the county organization or

18   Republican clubs or Young Republican Clubs; was that your

19   testimony?

20       A     I don't know.

21                    MR. GLASER:    Objection.

22                    MR. MANDELKER:    On cross.

23                    THE COURT:    Overruled.

24       A     I don't know for a fact exactly how many numbers were

25   collected.   That's what I believe, based on conversations that I

           Storobin - Redirect - Petitioner/Respondent - Mandelker

 1   later had.

 2              I don't know for a fact who collected how many

 3   signatures.    I just know that I believe that that's the case.

 4                    THE COURT:    All right.    Let's move on.

 5                    What's the next question?

 6         A    I believe that's the case.

 7         Q    So based on your recollection or belief then, almost

 8   half was collected by your campaign; is that correct that?

 9         A    Would make sense.    Again, I don't know the exact

10   number.

11                    MR. MANDELKER:    No further questions, your Honor.

12                    THE COURT:    Anything else?

13                    MR. GLASER:    Thank you.



16         Q    Well, Senator, is it true that several petition sheets,

17   I'm not talking about the ones that you witnessed, is it true

18   that several petition sheets just had one signature on them?

19         A    I don't know about petitions other than mine.       I'm sure

20   there were, because people do that.         But I didn't really look at

21   anyone else's signatures besides my own.         Unless they were with

22   me.

23         Q    Was there anything memorable about Michail Issak's

24   signature other than the fact it made it into the press?

25         A    That's what made it memorable.       Beyond that, it was

                                   Proceedings                       199

 1   more, it was one of something like 2,100 signatures that my

 2   campaign got.   Not my campaign, by the whole operation.       So, no.

 3                   MR. GLASER:    Okay.   Nothing further.

 4                   MR. MANDELKER:    Nothing further on this witness.

 5                   THE COURT:    Thank you, Senator.   You may step

 6       down.

 7                   (Witness stepped down.)

 8                   MR. MANDELKER:    I call Jacob Kornbluh.

 9                   MR. GLASER:    Well, your Honor, I guess -- I

10       believe I didn't tell you, but I couldn't get Mr. Kornbluh

11       until this afternoon.

12                   THE COURT:    All right.

13                   MR. GLASER:    So, your Honor, and as to the other

14       witness, I'm going to try to get him too.

15                   I do want -- can I bring up the issue, the

16       handwriting expert for a moment?        I'm told that I'll be

17       getting a report tonight.

18                   Mr. Storobin was actually called to testify now

19       because he's got a trip scheduled for Israel.         I have been

20       hearing for over a week, and this included conversations we

21       had with Justice Schmidt.      And, at this point, my client

22       has testified and I have nothing, assuming that my client

23       leaves for Israel on this trip, I have nothing to

24       contradict what he says in my own case.

25                   So, at this point, because I'm not even going to

                              Proceedings                       200

 1   get it until I'm told tonight, I'm asking to preclude this

 2   expert.

 3               And I have, again, because I really have no way of

 4   contradicting him and I believe that the report coming in

 5   at this point is too little too late --

 6               THE COURT:   You can't get it to him sooner?

 7               MR. MANDELKER:   I'm not in my office.   I don't

 8   have it.

 9               THE COURT:   Look into it.   I mean, we are talking

10   about how many signatures?

11               MR. MANDELKER:   I think we're talking about --

12               THE COURT:   He's going to testify tomorrow.

13   Tomorrow is Thursday --

14               MR. MANDELKER:   Friday.

15               THE COURT:   He's going to testify Friday.

16               MR. MANDELKER:   Probably 30 signatures.

17               THE COURT:   All right.

18               Let's try to get it to counsel as soon as

19   possible.

20               MR. MANDELKER:   As soon as I have it, he'll have

21   it.

22               THE COURT:   As soon as possible.

23               MR. MANDELKER:   Yes, sir.

24               THE COURT:   All right.

25               We will see you at 2:15.

                            Proceedings                        201

 1            MR. MANDELKER:    Thank you, your Honor.

 2            MR. GLASER:    Your Honor, I guess the issue is I

 3   don't believe I will be able to recall, at least as to Mr.

 4   Storobin, who testifies with regard to Mr. Storobin's

 5   signature.   So if you rule against me, you rule against me.

 6   But I'm moving to preclude this expert.

 7            So we'll revisit it.

 8            THE COURT:    We will hear from him on Friday.

 9            MR. GLASER:    Thank you, your Honor.


11            (Whereupon a luncheon recess was taken.)
















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