ACEC-IDNR LIAISON COMMITTEE MEETING
September 22, 2008–2-4 pm
Lawrence Room (Garrison House)
Fort Harrison Golf Resort & Conference Center
6002 N. Post Road, Indianapolis, IN 46216
Phone: 317-543-9592 fax: 317-543-3967
Aaron Davenport Butler, Fairman and Seufert, Inc.
Paul Aikens USI Consultants, Inc.
Siavash Beik Christopher B. Burke Engineering, Ltd.
Kashif Khan Infrastructure Engineering, Inc.
Hans Peterson Clark Dietz, Inc.
Richard Rampone HNTB
R. Derick Wiggins Midwestern Engineers, Inc.
George Bowman IDNR
Mike Neyer IDNR
Ken Smith IDNR
Andrea Gromeaux-Schnaith IDNR
Matt Buffington IDNR
B. Approval of April 15, 2008 Meeting Minutes
No minutes presented, so I guess they are ok.
C. Standing Sub-Committee Status Reports
1. Hydraulic Modeling Guidelines Subcommittee (Rick Rampone)
Rick Rampone gave an overview of past committee meetings and attendees. A memorandum of Understanding
(MOU) was developed between the IDNR and INDOT to streamline and avoid duplication of hydraulics reviews.
However, since there were limitations on bridge crossings covered by the MOU (only replacement bridges without
over the road flow), only several bridge projects have benefitted from application of the MOU. In addition, since
the INDOT reorganization, there have been some internal communications issues between the Office of
Environmental Services (OES) and the Hydraulics Unit. Since this MOU was developed with an emphasis on
passing some of the review workload from the Division of Water to INDOT, investigation has begun into possibly
increasing the extent of bridge structures covered by the MOU. After some initial meetings involving INDR and
INDOT, Ken Smith indicated that training is needed to further educate staffs on use and procedures for the MOU.
He suggested October 15 or the following week for the training. The committee will continue to further assist INDR
and INDOT on investigating increasing the scope of bridges covered under the existing MOU.
A question was asked if the Division of Water has new hydrologic procedures (pertaining to USGS Stream Stats).
George Bowman indicated that more testing is required.
2. Discussion on adding a County Surveyor and others to the sub-committee (Rick Rampone)
Rick Rampone indicated that the Hydraulic Modeling Guidelines Subcommittee is considering adding one or more
members to the committee. Peggy Shepherd from Christopher B. Burke has been added to replace Herb Bolinger,
who has retired. The committee is also considering the possibility of adding a representative County Surveyor to the
group. A suggested person is Kenton Ward from Hamilton County with Steve Murray as a backup in case Kenton
cannot serve. The committee feels that developers’ interests are represented by the selected consultants on the
committee. The committee has also suggested that a process be developed to identify potential consultant members
to replace and or add people to the committee. Although the committee began as specifically technical oriented, it is
now providing comments and input to IDNR Division of Water regarding policy and permitting issues and meets at
the request of IDNR. Obviously, IDNR will be interested in any new members invited to serve on the committee. It
was also suggested that specific individuals could be invited to attend specific meetings to provide necessary input.
The next committee meeting will be held on Wednesday (9-24-08) at 8:30 am at INDOT Room N642. Mike Neyer
is tentatively scheduled to attend this meeting. The committee will review and discuss these items and report back
on status at the next meeting.
AT THIS POINT, THE AGENDA SKIPPED TO ITEM G.
D. Proposed General Permit Requirements for Culvert Replacement (Status/Update)
1. Potential mitigation credits for clients meeting the 2’ buried or no bottom rule.
This rule pertains to new structures only. Replacement structures are exempt from this rule.
If LPA/Consultants meet the 2’ buried or no bottom rule, then in-stream mitigation will not be required.
2. Update on potential meeting with IDEM concerning procedures of burying culvert 20% or using
It is uncertain as to whether Ron McAhron has met with IDEM to coordinate mitigation measures between the
agencies. The Department will not force the issue of making replacement structures fish/wildlife friendly.
Ken Smith indicated that a seminar will be held on November 13, 2008 that will discuss the 20% burying rule as
part of the subject matter.
E. USGS Gauging Station Funding (Water Shortage Task Force Linkage)
1. Funding shortage
Mike Neyer presented a handout entitled Proposed Resolution for the Funding of Stream, Lake and Reservoir Gages
and Ground-Water Observation Wells, prepared by the Indiana Water Shortage Task Force (attached). Mike
indicated that the resolution passed at a Water Resources staff meeting that calls for non-reverting, dedicated funds
to take care of USGS and Lake gauging stations. The funds will initially come from the reallocation of gauge
acquisition and maintenance appropriations for the gauging stations. More money will be expended than any
income available to place in the fund due to a low Department budget. So, once the appropriated money is gone,
there is no annual budget established to maintain the fund. The resolution needs to have a provision to add money
that goes to the Water Resources Commission. It was suggested that ACEC members come to the study committee
meeting to add importance of needed funds each year. Mike Neyer is to inform Aaron Davenport as to when the
study committee meeting will be held. Aaron will then forward that information to members on the ACEC-DNR
Liaison Committee and Stephanie Morse for dissemination to ACEC firms. It was suggested that ACEC meet with
Mike Neyer and Ron McAhron prior to the meeting to ensure that all points that need to be discussed are covered.
Mike will coordinate with Ron to see if the ACEC meeting is necessary.
2. Other Funding Categories
It was asked if there were technological advances that would make operating the gauging stations cheaper. It is
assumed that with better technology comes higher prices.
F. DNR Activities Update
1. Quality of Permit Submittals
There is the concern that the individual filling out the modeling checklist is not the person that performed the
modeling. It is thought that Jr. Engineers are not being closely supervised by the Sr. Engineers. Training is
provided at Rose-Hulman. Mike Neyer asked whether it would be appropriate for the Division of Water to provide
additional training on location. The response was positive.
2. Discussion of DNR Permit Review Times
Andrea Gromeaux-Schnaith provided handouts to illustrate the permitting efficiency of the Division of Water
(attached). Overall, the permitting response times are getting better. These response times also includes the review
of all Divisions. Andrea indicated that input from Consultants is desired. Andrea indicated that there are about 40-
45% of all permit applications in abeyance. Another issue is that trained floodway reviewers are quitting which
creates additional work for fewer staff members.
There is currently a disaster emergency declaration for work due to the 2008 flooding. This allows work to be done
without permit until October 1, 2008 for the following:
a. Involves bridge/culvert replacement and the elevation of the roadway will not be raised.
b. Bank stabilization
c. Log jam and debris removal.
3. Legislative Initiatives/Actions
None known at this time.
4. Update on Rewriting the Flood Control Act (Mike Neyer)
Mike indicated that this is not moving forward at this time.
G. DNR Response Times for Early Coordination Reviews and Responses
1. SAFETEA-LU dictates agency review times to be 30-days.
Aaron Davenport gave a brief description of SAFETEA-LU early coordination allowable response times from
agencies. The 30-day response time is generally met with most agencies. DHPA usually responds in the 30-day
window but the DNR Division of Fish and Wildlife does not. Matt Buffington indicated that they try to meet the 30-
day deadline for INDOT projects, but struggle with LPA projects due to a lack of staff members. Matt indicated that
he is trying to work things out with the Department, but that adding staff to his group may prove to be quite difficult.
Aaron Davenport indicated that he would contact Ron McAhron to see what can be done to speed up the review
times. Matt requested that consultants not call to determine the status of a project immediately after submitting it for
review. This will delay the process for all projects involved.
Dr. Glass and Karie Brudis indicated that they are trying to maintain their recent good review record. It was
suggested that submittal information and requirements be sent to all consultants to assist them in ensuring that they
include all necessary information in their original submittals. It is unsure as to how to accomplish this, but ACEC
can prepare and disseminate a list to all participating consultants.
2. Possible subcommittee to assist in determining methods to meet SAFETEA-LU review times.
Need volunteers from ACEC and DNR.
Not needed at this time.