WEDNESDAY AUGUST by jolinmilioncherie

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                      WEDNESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2011




The House met at 14:06.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment

of silence for prayers or meditation.


The SPEAKER: Hon members, please note that notices of motion and

motions without notice will be taken after the condolence motion.


  That, notwithstanding Rule 29(8) and Rule 113(1), Questions not be

  given precedence today.

Agreed to.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, hon members, I

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  That, notwithstanding Rule 110(2), which specifies that Questions

  to the Deputy President may not be scheduled for a question day

  that   falls   within    a    week   in   which   the   Deputy   President   is

  scheduled to answer questions in the Council, Questions to the

  Deputy President be taken today. I thank you.

Agreed to.

                               MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                          (The late Bishop L J Tolo)

Mr T BOTHA: Hon Speaker, I move:

  That the House –

  (1)     notes with profound sadness and a deep sense of personal

          loss the untimely death of the Hon Bishop L J Tolo, who

          was murdered at 02h00 on Monday 22 August 2011 at his home

          in Ha Masha Village at Nqwabe in Sekhukhune where he was

          Bishop of Bagaogelwa Apostolic Church from 1976 as well as

          President of the Limpopo Apostolic Council of Churches

          from 1991 to date;

  (2)     further notes that Bishop Tolo, who was born on 21

          November 1948 and was active in politics from 1977, was a
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         Member of Parliament since 1994, first as an ANC MP and

         then as a Cope MP since 2009;

  (3)    recognises that Bishop Tolo was a humble man with strong

         principles and a deep and personal concern for those who

         were impoverished, sick and physically incapacitated, as

         witnessed in his determination to pursue relief from

         government for the people of Sekhukhune, who had a deep-

         rooted pride for the history of his people and his

         culture, as manifested in his abiding love of Sepedi, his

         mother tongue;

  (4)    believes that the murder of Bishop Tolo has taken a loving

         and caring family man;

  (5)    further believes that the police must leave no stone

         unturned to track down the perpetrators of this heinous

         deed that has seen a committed South African becoming

         another casualty of violent crime, and expose them to the

         full wrath of the law; and

  (6)    conveys its heartfelt condolences to the Tolo family, his

         grieving widow Salome, their four sons, three daughters

         and ten grandchildren, and to his colleagues and friends

         across party political lines as well as the community of

         Sekhukhune that he served with such devotion.
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The SPEAKER: I wish to recognise and welcome the family of the late

Bishop Tolo, in front us, led by his brother. You are welcome.

Mrs N F MATHIBELA: Hon Speaker, ...

... ba gaTolo re re mahloko; mahloko ao tšwago go ANC yeo e bego e

le legae la Ntate Tolo. [... our deepest condolences to the Tolo

family, on behalf of the ANC, which was home for Mr Tolo.]

I got to know the late hon Tolo in the 1990s, when we were busy

organising a sub-region in our region, which is today a region of

Sekhukhune. It was then the eastern region of the Northern

Transvaal, in the former Lebowa.

The late hon Bishop Jack Tolo was born on 21 November 1948, at

Sekhukhune, GaMasha. He joined politics in 1968 and became a member

of the ANC in 1977, and a Member of Parliament in 1994. Apart from

his religious commitment as a Bishop of the Apostolic Church since

1976, the Late Bishop Tolo, a 63-year-old parliamentarian and church

pastor, was married to Salome Tolo, and they had seven children and

10 grandchildren. The hon Jack Tolo ...

... o be a le motho yo boleta, wa go sega ka mehla, wa go loka le wa

go hlompha bomme. Ka nako yeo re bego re hloma makala, re tlo aga

selete sa ka fase ga selete sa bohlabela kua Sekhukhune, ke ile ka

kgethwa go ba modulasetulo wa sona gomme Mme Salome Tolo, yo a bego
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a le mokgotse wa ka, a kgethwa go ba moswaramatlotlo. Re bile

bakgotse, bašomimmogo re thekgilwe ke Mohu Ntate Tolo. Mohu Ntate

Tolo e be e le ntate – ba a hlokwa bontate ba ba swanago le yena. Ka

nako yeo, dinamelwa di be di hlokega. Mohu Ntate Tolo o be a dira

gore Mme Salome o ba le senamelwa sa go re iša moo re tla go be re

nyaka go ya gona ka dinako tšohle.

Maolokoa a Cope le ba gaTolo, ga le a lahlegelwa le nnoši, le

lahlegetšwe le ANC. Re lahlagetšwe ke Mohu Ntate Tolo ka gore o be a

le ka go Cope, feela o be o ka seke wa re ke leloko la Cope, o be o

ka re ke leloko la ANC ka gore ke mokgatlo wo o ilego wa mo ruta

dipolotiki, wa mo ruta bophelo. O bile yena motho woo go fihla

letšatši le a sepelago ka lona, a sa le motho yo a ratago batho.

(Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[He was a soft-hearted and kind-hearted person with a sense of

humour, and had deep respect for women. I remember when we were

organising the formation of a new sub-region of the eastern region,

I was elected the chairperson and Salome Tolo, who was my friend,

the treasurer. We were friends and colleagues with the support of Mr

Tolo. The late Mr Tolo   was an ideal father – very few can be like

him. At that time the transport system was a problem, and Mr Tolo

would ensure that his wife, Salome, had secured transport to take us

where we were going at all times.
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To the members of Cope, and the Tolo family, the ANC shares your

loss. Mr Tolo passed on as a Cope member, but you would have

mistaken him to be an ANC member, for it is the latter that taught

him politics and life in general. He was a people’s person and

remained like that until the very last moment of his life.]

When I met the Tolo family in the 90s, the late Mr Tolo and his wife

were people who were very committed to the ANC. When our icon, Mr

Nelson Mandela, was released from prison and came to visit Jane

Furse, Ntate Tolo had a musical band, and we all marched together to

go and fetch Tata and take him to the venue where he was supposed to

address the people. As a man and a Christian, Ntate Tolo was God-


I am so shocked to hear that Ntate Tolo was robbed and killed now,

when he was supposed to have been killed then when he had money, not


Mohu Ntate Tolo o be a buša Ngwabe, GaMasha. Mabenkele a gagwe a be

a le a lesomepedi kua Ngwabe. [The late Mr Tolo was like a king at

his home village of Ngwabe, GaMasha where he owned a fleet of twelve


Ntate Tolo had a musical band, buses and almost everything that

anybody could wish for. He was the first person to have a car there

and his wife also had a car. He used to make sure that the wife’s
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car was always full of petrol. Very few fathers and husbands are

like him.

I remember Bishop Tolo as a very happy person, and he respected

women.   He   used   to   say,   “I   respect   women   because   women   are   the

mothers who can look after the children even when we are not there.”

He once related the story that he was working as a truck driver and

when he came home he didn’t have any money, but his wife took out

money and gave it to him to go and buy a car. That is how he got his

first car. It is very sad to have lost Bishop Tolo in this day and


I remember him as such a happy person with his happy family. He was

not even too lazy to cook. When we were organising, we would

sometimes finish late, and since I stayed far and our transport was

very poor, I used to sleep at his home. When we got there, we would

find him cooking. He would dish up, call us, tell us to wash our

hands and eat. How many fathers and husbands are doing that?

To the Tolo family, I remember Bishop Tolo as a happy person, always

making jokes and being very supportive to women. He used to say, “I

respect women more than myself.”

I would like to say to his wife, children, family and friends, may

they find comfort in having known such a wonderful person. Although
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no words can really help to ease the loss you bear, just know that

you are very close in every thought and prayer. May his soul rest in


Sithi akwehlanga elungehli. [We convey our condolences.]

Ba gaTolo mahloko, gomme ga a robale a khutšo! [Our deepest

condolences to the Tolo family; may his soul rest in peace!]

Mr J SELFE: Mr Speaker, it was my privilege to have known Jack Tolo

since we became senators together in 1994. The Senate consisted of

only 90 members and, because it was so small, its members got to

know one another rather better than we in the National Assembly know

one another. Over time, Bishop Tolo moved from being a political

opponent to a respected colleague and then to a close friend.

Moruti, as we called him, was born and grew up in Sekhukhune, in

Limpopo. His parents were very poor and he was forced to begin work,

as an agricultural worker and then as a driver, when he was very

young. He never lost his love of agriculture, for the people of his

community, whom he served with such distinction, or his disgust at

bad drivers. He constantly complained that young people got driving

licences too easily, and that was the reason why there are so many

accidents on the road.
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He was a simple, straightforward person who knew what was right and

what was wrong. He fought for what was right and was passionately

opposed to what was wrong. That was what drew him into the struggle

for democracy and justice in South Africa and into politics. Because

of this passion, he wasn’t a person who slavishly followed any

particular party line. He was his own man, and he expressed to me

his distaste for some political views, particularly for the views of

the president of the ANC Youth League, long before it became

fashionable to do so.

He was also a person of profound faith. He was a Bishop in the

Apostolic Church, and took his ecclesiastical responsibilities very

seriously. He was an impressive preacher and used the skill with

great effect at this podium, seldom with a single note, particularly

when he was speaking about matters that he felt deeply about. He was

also a genuine apostle and he was worried about my salvation and

used to talk in that deep voice and say, “Selfe, you would never go

to heaven if you don’t go to church”.

He and I and many other colleagues served together in the Select

Committee on Security and Justice, in Senate, and later in the

Portfolio Committees of Defence and Correctional Services. In fact,

Bishop Tolo and I served continuously, since 1994, on the committee

dealing with correctional services so long that we became known as

Blou Baadjies, the name that offenders give to habitual criminals.
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His passion shone through in that committee as well. He believed in

discipline, order and in paying one’s debt to society. But, he also

believed that each human soul is created in the image of God and

that, therefore, human beings are redeemable and able to be

rehabilitated. He was also very proud of this democratic Parliament

that he had helped to create. Only last Thursday we were talking

about the fact that there were now only 27 members of both Houses of

Parliament who were Members of Parliament in 1994. Tragically, there

are now only 26.

His death and the way he died are terrible. We speak often about

crime in this House, but it is when a ghastly murder like this

happens that we again appreciate the reality faced by hundreds of

thousands of victims of violent crime in this country. We trust that

the perpetrators of this horrible crime will be arrested soon and

face the full force of the law.

His death has robbed us all of a gentleman, a patriot, a priest, a

parliamentarian and a leader. But, it has also robbed us of a great

friend. We extend our heartfelt condolences to his wife Salome, his

children and grandchildren, his congregants, his community and to

his colleagues in Cope. The one consolation that we can all draw in

this terrible time is that, whatever happens to my soul, I am

absolutely certain that his is in heaven. Rest in peace, my friend.

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Mr V B NDLOVU: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the IFP, we want to register

our shock on hearing that a Member of Parliament has been murdered

in his home, and that nobody has yet been arrested as we speak. The

IFP finds it very strange that a Member of Parliament, who was a

leader of people, was attacked and killed in his house for a few

pieces of jewellery and just R7 000, in front of his family members,

and that nobody has been arrested as yet.

Bishop Tolo was a kind man, beloved by everybody, very passionate

about his people and the area where he came from, including his

family. Therefore, a murder such as this one does not augur well for

the security operators of this country, especially the Members of


Bishop Tolo was a great friend of mine. When I joined the Portfolio

Committee on Correctional Services we became friends. When we went

outside of Parliament with committees to do oversight work, we

became even better friends and grew to understand each other better

each day. It is very sad to hear that a person can lose his life the

way that he lost his.

I want to extend our condolences to the family and friends,

especially his wife, relatives and colleagues. We are making a

request to the police to make sure that they do everything in their

power to arrest the perpetrators and ensure that those found are

found guilty of this hideous crime and languish in jail - to honour
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a man as honourable as Bishop Tolo. Uhambe kakuhle Bishop. [Go well,

Bisop]. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr N M KGANYAGO: Speaker and hon members, ...

... monna wa lerato, monna wa botho, monna wa seriti, monna wa

senatla, monna wa kwelobohloko; yoo ke Mna Tolo. Beke e fetilego o

tlile go nna mola ke dulago gona, a ntshwara mo legetleng a mpotša

gore, o swanetše go dira maano a go bitša kopano ya batho ba go tšwa

Limpopo, gore ge go nale mathata re tsebišane. (Translation of

Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[... a man who loved people, a kind man, a dignified man, a strong

man, a compassionate man; that was Mr Tolo. Last week he came to my

place, put his hand on my shoulder and told me that he has to call

all the people who are from Limpopo to a meeting so that we could

inform each other when we encounter problems.]

He said this because I had lost a son two weeks before, and he did

not know about it. When he came there, he came with a suggestion, to

inform people who are closer to one another when death strikes. He

said that he would take it upon himself to call that meeting. I

really don’t know what is going to happen, because he is gone.

Fela ke monna wa lerato. [He loved people.]
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The UDM once more extends its deepest condolences to the family,

friends and colleagues, on the tragic death of the late hon Jack


Once again, crime has robbed us of a diligent and hardworking

citizen. Government needs to intensify its efforts in fighting

violent crime in South Africa, in order to prevent further

unnecessary losses of life.

He succeeded in playing various parliamentary roles which came and

went over a long career in politics. Underneath, though, Bishop Jack

Tolo was a community builder. He never hesitated in drawing from his

personal resources in order to help members of his community.

Taba ya metsotso e mebedi e tlo mpolaya ka gore nka se kgone go

bolela tše dingwe ka baka la nako ye. [Two minutes is not enough

because I won’t be able to say everything I wanted to say.]

The SPEAKER: Ke tla go fa metsotso e mengwe e mebedi. [I will give

you two more minutes.]

Like us, there will be many people who share in his family’s grief

during this time of bereavement. Our thoughts and prayers are with

them. May his soul rest in peace.
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... fela pelo tša rena di kwele bohloko batho ba Modimo. A re tsebe

gore na ro dula kae; ro dula ka gare ga melete re tšhaba dikelema

goba re ye kae ka baka la gore le dintlong tša rena ga go sana mo re

ka khutago gona, ba a go lalela; ba dira dilo tše kamoka ga tšona.

A re emeng ka maoto re nyake maano a go lwa le dilo tše. Dilo tše ke

dinokwane, ga di a loka, di a re fetša. Ka bošigo ke nna, ka le

lengwe letšatši e tla be e le wena. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.]

(Transalation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[... we are in pain. We don’t know where to stay now; must we go and

stay in the holes to hide from the criminals, or where must we stay

because we are no longer safe in our own homes? They lie in ambush

waiting for you; they do all these things.

Let us stand on our feet and find a way of dealing with these

criminals. They are rogues, they are dangerous, and they are killing

us. Tomorrow they might do the same to me or to you. Thank you.



Speaker, personally, it is with real sadness that I express my

condolences on the death of the hon Bishop Jack Tolo. The hon Tolo

was a very special man, and we experienced it in that way in this

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He had a special love for his mother tongue, Sepedi. He was proud of

his people’s history and of their culture. We had long discussions,

specifically on these issues, and the important role that one’s

mother tongue plays. We agreed on these issues, specifically on how

important the mother tongue of everyone in South Africa is, for the

dignity of everyone in our country.

Ek sal, daarom verder in Afrikaans praat en die agb Tolo sal dit

juis baie goed verstaan en aanmoedig. Ons het baie keer ook so in

Afrikaans met mekaar gepraat.

Ons, in die VF Plus, was sedert 1994 saam met hom hier in die

Parlement en ons tel dan ook onder daardie 26 wat oorgebly het.

Daarom het ons mekaar oor ’n lang tyd leer ken.

Hy was altyd vriendelik en aangenaam, maar mens moes dit nie met

swakheid verwar het nie. Hy het nie gehuiwer om vir sy mense in

Sekhukhune hier te veg en na hul beste belange om te sien, sover hy

dit kon regkry nie.

Ek het hom by Binnelandse Sake en by Landbou, wat vir hom belangrik

was, leer ken, waar hy altyd belangrike bydraes op ’n aangename

manier gemaak het. As ’n Cope-stigterslid het ons hom bewonder vir

die moed om volgens sy oortuigings op te tree in daardie moeilike

tyd in 2009, net voor die verkiesing.
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Ons wil van die VF Plus se kant af die hoop uitspreek dat die

misdadigers deur die polisie gevang sal word, sodat ons die volle

waarheid oor sy onnatuurlike dood sal kan vasstel.

Ek is dankbaar dat sy familie hier teenwoordig is om ook die hulde

te kan hoor wat ons, wat hom hier leer ken het, bring. Ek dra graag

die simpatie van die VF Plus, maar ook van die hele Huis oor aan sy

vrou, Salome, en aan sy kinders en kleinkinders. Waar biskop Tolo as

’n Christen aktief in sy kerk betrokke was as ’n oortuigde gelowige,

bid ons as mede-Christene vir troos vir sy vrou en kinders. Ek dank

u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Therefore, I will continue in Afrikaans and the hon Tolo would

certainly understand it very well and encourage it. Likewise, we

also conversed on many occasions in Afrikaans with each other.

We, in the FF Plus, joined him here in Parliament in 1994 and we can

consequently be reckoned amongst those 26 people who remain. Hence

we came to know each other over a long period of time.

He was always friendly and pleasant, but one did not regarded this

as a sign of weakness. He did not hesitate to fight here for his

people in Sekhukhune and took care of their best interests, in so

far as it was within his power to do so .
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I got to know him at Home Affairs and Agriculture, which were very

important to him, where he always made important contributions in a

pleasant manner. As a founder member of Cope we admired him for

having the courage of his convictions during that difficult time in

2009, just before the elections.

On behalf of the FF Plus we would like to express the hope that the

police will apprehend the criminals in order for us to ascertain the

whole truth about the unnatural way in which he died.

I am grateful that his family is present here, also listening to us,

who got to know him here, paying tribute to him. I readily convey

the sympathy of the FF Plus, but also that of the entire House to

his wife, Salome, and his children and grandchildren. Where Bishop

Tolo as a Christian was active in his church as a committed

believer, we pray as fellow Christians that his wife and children

may be comforted. I thank you.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, hon Speaker. The ACDP learned with shock

and sadness of the death of Bishop Tolo, as he was affectionately

known. He died in an attack by armed robbers on his home and family,

in the early hours of Monday morning, in Polokwane.

The 63-year-old parliamentarian, who was also a pastor, served in

the leadership of the Apostolic Church since the 1970s. He was in
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the process of building a church for his congregants, which was also

to be used as a community hall by villagers.

Hon Tolo, who represented a rural, Limpopo constituency, and, over

time, served on various committees, including Arts and Culture,

Agriculture and Land Affairs, Defence, and Correctional Services,

was diligent in every way and was always on top of the issues. He

was known as a generous man and is remembered for building houses

for poor families in GaMasha village, outside Sekhukhune, in


The ACDP shares the distress of his family, friends and colleagues

in the party, on this untimely loss of life. We extend sincere

condolences to his wife Salome, their seven children and 10

grandchildren, their extended family, friends and congregants, his

colleagues in Cope and the members of this House who have known him

for many years. Thank you.

Moh I C DITSHETELO: Ke a leboga Mmusakgotla. Rona re le batho ba

UCDP, dipelo tsa rona di gamuketse botlhoko ka rre Tolo. Rre Tolo o

ne a re makatsa, re na le kgwedi fela re le fano, re sa itse ope

fano, ka bona a tsena kwa go rona. Fa a tsena ga a ise a ke a

dumedise, o tsene fela a bo a re wa bona wena kgaitsadio ke sebare

sa ka. Jaanong ke ipotsa gore ntate yo ke mang, a bo a ipolela a re
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nna ke Tolo ke Leloko la Palamente. E le motho yo o nang le botho a

re bolelela gore o itse mapalamente a rona.

Go tloga foo, rre Tolo ya nna tsala ya batho ba UCDP. Re maketse

thata fa re tla go utlwa go twe rre Tolo o tsamaile. Fa re fetsa moo

ka boela gae mme ka bolela gore go na le ntate yo mongwe yo o neng a

tla kwa go rona a re bolelela gore o a le itse. E rile ke ise ke bue

leina la gagwe rre wa ka a re o raya rre Tolo. (Translation of

Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Ms I C DITSHETELO: Thank you Speaker. As the UCDP members, we are

heartbroken about Mr Tolo. Mr Tolo surprised us in only our first

month here; we didn’t know anyone and I saw him arrive at our place.

He didn’t greet when he came in, he just said your brother is my in-

law. And I asked myself who is this man; he then said I am Tolo and

I am a Member of Parliament. He was friendly and told us that he

knew our fellow parliamentarians.

From there, Mr Tolo befriended UCDP members. We are shocked to hear

that Mr Tolo has passed away. After that, I went back home and I

told them about a certain gentleman who came and told us that he

knew them. Before I could even say his name, my father asked if I

was talking about Mr Tolo.]

That was a very good man and he was polished.
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Re utlwile borra Tolo gore re kgaogane le tsala ya rona. Go le

gantsi fa re le mo dipolotiking ga re tshwaragane ka matsogo fela se

se diragatseng gompieno se tshwanetse se re kopanye bagaetsho. Ke

nnete ntate yo o tshetse le rona jalo ka nako tsotlhe. Ka nako

tsotlhe o ne a re botsa gore le kwa kae maUCDP mme le dira eng.

Tsogang! ntwa e teng. Jaanong ke ka moo ke reng ... (Translation of

Setswana paragraph follows.)

[To The Tolos, we heard that we had separated from our friend.

Normally in politics we are not united, but what happened today

should unite us. It is true that this gentleman lived with us like

that. All the time he used to ask us where the UCDP members were and

what we were doing. Wake up! There’s a war. That is why I say ...]

... may you find solace and comfort in the legacy he left, his

commitment and willingness to serve his country and his firm stand

on issues he believed in. May his soul rest in peace.

Kgotsofalang bagaetsho. A ntho ya lona e fole. Pelo tsa lona ga di

utlwile botlhoko di tshwana fela le tsa rona. Ke a leboga.[Legofi.]

[Celebrate his life and may your wound be healed. Your broken hearts

are similar to ours. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr R B BHOOLA: Mr Speaker, there are many sorrows in life. One of

the greatest sorrows that no one would like to experience is

undoubtedly that of death. On behalf of the MF, I bring heartfelt
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condolences and messages of strength, courage and fortitude to the

families, friends and relatives of the late Bishop Tolo for their


Our condolences also go out to Cope, for the loss of an impeccable,

dynamic leader, a true servant of the Lord and a true citizen of

humanity. It is quite correctly said that true leaders are those who

add value to society. With his warm and caring personality, the late

Bishop always showed compassion for the poor and destitute with

great humility.

Today I am reminded of the profound words of Madiba, when he said,

and I quote:

  There must be peace for all. You must not be afraid to say what

  you want to say today. People might dislike what you say today,

  but will remember what you say today tomorrow.

This is precisely the kind of personality the late Tolo was. He

wanted peace for all. He ensured that the Word of the Lord was

upheld so that one’s strength could be renewed. He went the extra

mile to serve his people. He had the knowledge, the experience and

the skill to preside over challenging issues.

He served his organisation, Cope, with honesty, integrity and hard

work. He played an integral role in bringing about peace and

stability amongst his members and organisation. Many who endured
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hardship had benefitted from the generosity of the late Bishop Tolo,

who, you have heard, built houses for the needy and destitute with

his own money. What an amazing characteristic!

The late Bishop Tolo will undoubtedly be sadly missed by all those

who loved him so dearly. Mrs Tolo, because of your strength and

support, you have delivered the late Bishop to be an astounding,

remarkable and dignified leader. God bless you and give you the

strength to deal with your irreplaceable loss. May peace be upon him

through the grace of God Almighty. May his soul rest in peace in the

high heavens. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mna K J DIKOBO: Mohl Seboledi, mohl Motlatša Mopresidente,

bahlomphegi Ditona le Batlatša Tona, maloko ao a hlomphegago a

Ngwako, ba lapa la Mopišopo Tolo, re ile ra tšhoga le go se dumele

ge re ekwa ka lehu la modirišani ka rena, Mopišopo Tolo. Go se

dumele ga rena go tlišwa ke gore re be re na le yena bekeng ya go

feta, re tšeere mehlamo gape re sega. Ke ka fao re rilego go kwa

taba ye ya ba eke go tla tla lentšu le lengwe ka morago la gore, “Ga

go bjalo. Re be re sa kwa gabotse.”

Lehu la Mopišopo Tolo ke tahlegelo go ba lapa le meloko, Bagaugelwa

Apostolic Church, profense ya gešo ya Limpopo, mokgatlo wa Cope le

naga ya Afrika-Borwa ka bophara. Re lahlegetšwe ke monna wa lerato;

monna wa sefahlego sa go dula se edile; monna wa go se fele pelo.

Mohl Mopišopo Tolo e be e le motho wa maele; motho wa go dula a

hlohleletša batho gore ba dire gabotse. Go fihleng ga ka Palamenteng
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 23 of 163

ngwageng wa go feta, Mopišopo Tolo e bile yo mongwe wa batho bao ke

ilego ka ithekga ka bona. Ke be ke fela ke re mo ke gakanegilego

gona ke botšiše gore naa mo go tle go dirwe bjang. O be a nkamogela

ka lethabo gape a fela a ntebogiša a re, “O a bona Dikobo, o boletše

gabotse lehono. Ga ke go reke sefahlego.”

Re lahlegetšwe ke senatla; mogale wa bagale. Mokgapa wo mogolo o

wele, dithaga di lla mašogošogo. Re re go ba lapa, homotšegang. A re

se ke ra dumela mokgwa wo Mopišopo Tolo a hlokofetšego ka wona o re

šira ra se bone lerato la Modimo le ditšhegofatšo tšeo re bilego le

tšona ka lebaka la bophelo bja papa Tolo. Ee, re gobetše. Efela a re

kweng taletšo ya Modimo ge a re go rena, “Etlang go nna bohle bao le

imetšwego le bao le lapišitšwego, nna ke tla le khutšiša.” O re:

“Ithwešeng joko ya ka ka gore yona e bobebe.”

Legatong la Azapo, ke re mahloko go ba lapa le metswalle, ba kereke

le ba mokgatlo wa Cope. Re re eke moya wa gagwe o ka robala ka

khutšo. Ke a leboga. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi speech


[Mr K J DIKOBO: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers and

Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, the family of Bishop

Tolo, we were shocked and could not believe when we heard about our

colleague Bishop Tolo’s death. We could not believe the sad news

because he was with us here last week and we were talking and

laughing. After hearing the sad news we thought maybe somebody would
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 24 of 163

later come and tell us that it is not true, that we had been


His untimely death is a loss to the family and friends, Bagaugelwa

Apostolic Church, Limpopo Province, Cope and the whole of South

Africa. We have lost a loving man, a man who was always happy, a

patient man.

Hon Bishop Tolo always encouraged people to do good at all times.

Bishop Tolo is one of the people I relied on when I arrived in

Parliament last year. I used to contact him whenever I needed

clarity on something. He always responded with love and he would

sometimes praise me and say, “You see Dikobo, to be honest with you,

you spoke very well today”. We have lost a strong man, a hero. We

are saddened by the death of this great man. We convey our heartfelt

condolences to his family. Let us not allow the brutal murder of hon

Tolo to overshadow the love and the blessings we received from God

through the life of hon Tolo. Yes, we are in deep pain, but let us

listen to God when he says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and

heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” God says, “Take my yoke upon

you... for my yoke is easy.”

On behalf of Azapo, I would like to convey our heartfelt condolences

to the family, the friends, the church members and Cope members. May

his soul rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]]
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 25 of 163

Mr T BOTHA: Hon Speaker, Tata Tolo was an upright man who practised

genuine humility and who carried himself with courteous dignity. His

spiritual belief shaped the course of his life. It is no wonder then

that the lifelong activism in him drew strength whenever he was

faced with adversity. I refer to the biblical quotation, “If God be

for us, who can be against us?” Romans 8:31.

All of us who knew him well will know how very fond he was of this

quotation. Bishop Tolo was a dedicated churchman, a respected

community leader, an enterprising businessperson and a diligent

Member of Parliament who pursued social justice for his people

without letting up. He took his duties very seriously and he

administered pastoral care with passion and a deep sense of


Bishop Tolo was a man in the Walter Sisulu mould. He never sought

publicity and yet, among his peers, he was the moral rock that

people could depend on. Every one of us will also remember that

whenever he addressed this House, he preferred to speak in his

native Sepedi because he valued culture and tradition very highly.

He was close to King Sekhukhune and the tribal elders. The Sowetan

observed that he was a man “rooted in community”. Indeed, he never

left his home village of GaMasha in the Sekhukhune area. Today we

hear of some of the good work he undertook, of which we had no
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 26 of 163

knowledge. At his own expense, he renovated the GaMasha tribal

office, and added three classrooms to the Masha tribal school.

Four families were the recipients of houses he built for them

because he was so moved by the circumstances of their lives. At the

GaMasha clinic, he built a three-roomed attachment so that pregnant

women no longer needed to give birth out in the open. He helped to

fence the cemetery and build a toilet in the cemetery complex.

Bishop Tolo generously bore catering expenses when community

meetings were held; at every turn he used his influence and

resources to bring relief to the people around him. When Madiba

visited the Sekhukhune area before the 1994 elections, Bishop Tolo

was called up onto the stage and publicly acknowledged by the father

of our democracy for his long and distinguished service to the


Bishop Tolo was a man of peace and we who knew him well are deeply

anguished at the violent nature of his death. We are also immensely

saddened by the trauma that his wife Salome and the family

experienced on that sad and tragic morning when he was snatched away

from all of us.

His strength of character, his humour, his moral rectitude and his

unflinching adherence to the truth were what fortified all of us. If

politics are served by people of his quality and integrity, no one
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 27 of 163

will ever have any criticism of politicians ever again. This is the

challenge he leaves us and the challenge the country wants to see us

rise to. Our deepest condolences to his wife, sons, daughters and

the entire family!

Robala gabotse, sebata, moetapele wa batho ba Afrika-Borwa. [Rest in

peace, a hero and leader of   South African people.]

Thank you. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, I take it that there are no objections to

the adoption of the motion by the House. Will members please rise to

observe a moment of silence in memory of the late Bishop Tolo.

Please be seated. The condolences of the House will be conveyed to

the Tolo family. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to, members standing.

                         NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr G G BOINAMO: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 28 of 163

  That the House debates the plight of ex-mineworkers, and solutions

  to deal with the long-standing problems faced by this group of

  South Africans.

Mr S E KHOLWANE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

  That the House debates the accountability and transformation of

  the media in general and print media in particular.

Mrs G M BORMAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

  That the House debates plans to overcome the challenges in

  delivering water and sanitation to meet the targets set for 2014.

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

  That the House debates the poor state of enforcement of traffic

  laws and regulations by traffic authorities, particularly with

  regard to public taxi transport services.

Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 29 of 163

  That the House debates the increase of cable theft and the impact

  on public transport.

Mrs M S F DE FREITAS: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

  That the House debates the old Durban Airport and possible

  solutions for its future use.

Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

  That the House debates South Africa’s readiness to deal with

  natural disasters.

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move:

  That the House debates how to develop and create more internships

  and learnerships for South Africa’s youth to give them the skills

  and experience to compete successfully in the job market.

Mr N D DU TOIT: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 30 of 163

  That the House debates the ongoing poaching of South Africa’s

  abalone resources, the possible links of this criminal activity to

  the drug trade, and possible solutions to curb poaching and

  further protect the resource.

Mrs S P KOPANE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

  That the House debates the state of the Child Protection Register,

  and solutions to rapidly improve the use of this register in order

  to ensure the protection of our children in South Africa.

Mr G R MORGAN: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next

sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

  That the House debates the effectiveness and appropriateness of

  the commercialisation strategy of SA National Parks, SANParks, ten

  years after it was established; and solutions to improve funding

  for SANParks while ensuring that conservation is enhanced.


                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker and hon Deputy

President, I move without notice:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 31 of 163

  That the House —

  (1)   notes that President Jacob Zuma was elected to take over the

        chairmanship of the SADC organ on politics, defence and

        security troika, from Zambian President Rupiah Banda when the

        regional leaders met on Wednesday, 18 August 2011, during a

        two-day summit in Angola;

  (2)   believes that this gesture is in recognition of the sterling

        role the President is playing in Africa in creating

        conditions for peace, stability and good neighbourliness; and

  (3)   wishes the President success in his new role.

Agreed to.


                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, I move without notice:

  That the House —
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 32 of 163

  (1)   notes the announcement of the 30-man Springbok squad to

        travel to New Zealand in September to compete in the 2011 IRB

        Rugby World Cup;

  (2)   further notes that this announcement follows the Springboks’

        18-5 win over arch rivals New Zealand on Saturday in their

        final Tri-Nations clash at the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium in

        Port Elizabeth;

  (3)   recognises that this victory gave the Springboks the much

        needed confidence and momentum to take the team into the IRB

        Rugby World Cup that starts in New Zealand on 10 September


  (4)   acknowledges that eighteen members of South Africa’s

        triumphant 2007 Rugby World Cup-winning squad were included

        in the 2011 group;

  (5)   further acknowledges that the Springboks, having previously

        won the prestigious tournament in 1995 and 2007, head to New

        Zealand to try and become the first nation to win back-to-

        back World Cup titles; and

  (6)   congratulates the individual members of the squad and wishes

        the touring party together with the coaching staff the best

        of luck as they aim to once again win the tournament.
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 33 of 163

Agreed to.


                            (Draft Resolution)

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:

  That the House —

  (1)   notes with great sorrow the reported deaths of schoolchildren

        in Knysna, when their school bus plunged into a river early

        this morning;

  (2) further notes that it is reported that the other children

        suffered serious trauma and injury;

  (3)   extends its heartfelt condolences to the families and friends

        of the deceased and expresses its concern for the injured

        children; and

  (4)   mourns this tragic loss of life with the rest of the country.

Agreed to.

                     2011 SOUTH AFRICAN SPORTS AWARDS
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 34 of 163

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy

President, I move without notice:

  That the House —

  (1)   notes that the South African Sports Awards took place on

        Sunday, 21 August 2011;

  (2)   further notes that the Sports Awards have been created to

        recognise and honour individuals and teams who have excelled

        both on and off the field during the period from 1 November

        2009 to 30 April 2011; and

  (3)   congratulates all the recipients who received awards in their

        respective categories.

Agreed to.


                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs S V KALYAN (DA): Hon Speaker, I move without notice:
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 35 of 163

  That the House —

  (1)   notes that on Saturday, 20 August 2011, South African ultra-

        runner Ryan Sandes won the 2011 Leadville Trail 100 Mile Run

        in Colorado, USA, in a time of 16:46:56;

  (2)   further notes that this gruelling ultra marathon, which

        Sandes won in the 3rd best time in history, is competed at an

        altitude of between 9 000 and 12 000 feet above sea level;

  (3)   acknowledges that in December 2010 Sandes became the first

        competitor to win each event in the world-renowned 4 Deserts

        self-supported foot race, a series of races across the

        Atacama, Gobi, Sahara and Antarctic deserts; and

  (4)   congratulates Sandes on his achievements and wishes him the

        most success with his future career.

Agreed to.


                          (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy

President, I move without notice:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 36 of 163

  That the House —

  (1)   notes that Banyana Banyana on Saturday, 20 August 2011,

        defeated Mozambique 5-0 in an international friendly match

        played at the Lucas “Masterpieces” Moripe Stadium in

        Atteridgeville, Tshwane;

  (2)   further notes that the win took Banyana Banyana’s 2011

        statistics to 11 wins from 13 matches under the guidance of

        national coach Joseph Mkhonza;

  (3)   congratulates Banyana Banyana on their convincing victory;


  (4)   wishes Banyana Banyana success in their coming match against

        Ethiopia in an Olympic Qualifier first leg encounter at the

        Orlando Stadium in Soweto on Saturday, 27 August 2011.

Agreed to.


The SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to recognise a visiting delegation

from Vietnam, the Vietnamese parliament in the gallery. A warm

welcome to you all. [Applause.] Thank you very much.
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 37 of 163

The next item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to the

Deputy President. Again members may press the “talk button” on their

desks if they wish to ask supplementary questions. The first

question is asked by hon Mr N Singh.

                   QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY


        Details of government’s expanded HIV-Aids programme

5.   Mr N Singh (IFP) asked the Deputy President:

     (a) What are the details of the government's recently announced

     expanded HIV-Aids programme (details furnished), (b) how will

     the programme be (i) financed, (ii) monitored and (iii) rolled

     out and (c) when will the full details be made available?   NO2516E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, during the SA

National Aids Council, Sanac, meeting on 12 August this year, we

announced that people who are infected with HIV and have a Cluster

of Differentiation 4, CD4, cell count of 350 or less will be

eligible for antiretroviral treatment.

In essence this means that more people will now be treated earlier,

thus decreasing their chances of infecting others. They will also
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 38 of 163

benefit by staying healthier for longer. This will eventually

contribute to increased life expectancy, which to date has declined

due to HIV and related illnesses. The Department of Health has

worked closely with the National Treasury, the World Health

Organisation, United Nations Aids, Unaids, and experts to conduct

analysis and forecasts on the financial implications of the proposed


A well-calculated cost has been developed, which allowed government

to include some of the projected costs in the Medium-Term

Expenditure Framework. Consequently, resources have already been

made available in the Department of Health budget to cover some of

the costs of the programme.

We have received additional funding from the President’s Emergency

Plan for Aids Relief and Sanac successfully submitted a proposal to

the Global Fund requesting a significant amount of resources to fund

the purchase of antiretroviral drugs. An additional amount of

R244 million will be provided through the national Department of

Health to procure the additional commodities required.

The Minister of Health and Minister of Finance have also

successfully obtained a 53% reduction in the cost of

antiretrovirals, ARVs, through a concerted effort and robust

engagement with the pharmaceutical industry. This saved government

R4,7 billion, which makes it possible to treat more people.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 39 of 163

These initiatives as well as ongoing efforts to maximise

efficiencies will enable the costs of the expanded programme to be

covered, at least in the short term to medium term.

Hon members, the national and provincial departments of health have

existing systems to monitor their HIV/Aids and TB programmes and

these systems are being strengthened.

A three-tier monitoring system is now being implemented, which

consists of paper-based monitoring, electronic monitoring and, more

importantly, a system linking all provinces. In this regard, I can

assure this House that patient confidentiality will not be

compromised during the use of these systems.

As for the implementation of the expanded programme, the new

guideline is effective immediately as of this month and full details

of this programme are already in the public domain. Government will

continue to interact with the public, stakeholders and practitioners

in the field to ensure that relevant details are known to all.

I believe that, through our combined efforts and by working

together, we can defeat the scourge of HIV and Aids. I thank you for

your attention.

The SPEAKER: Hon members on my right, please allow the Deputy

President to be heard. You are drowning him with your voices.
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 40 of 163

Mr N SINGH: Mr Speaker, thank you, and thank you, hon Deputy

President, for the response and the initiatives that are being

taken. As the IFP, we welcome this announcement, but yet I think

there are unintended consequences that may arise.

We can put in more money and more tablets to protect the vulnerable,

but we find reports such as:

  When thieves broke into Nonhlahla’s home they took her most

  valuable possessions, her antiretrovirals, which in urban legend

  are key ingredients in a narcotic called “whoonga”.

Mr Deputy President we know that it is a myth that ARVs are used to

produce “whoonga”, but yet drug dealers continue to perpetuate this

myth and vulnerable people are being robbed. Criminals attack people

who go to clinics to collect “whoonga”. There have been serial

murders in KwaZulu-Natal, where people have been killed for ARVs. I

would like to know, amongst other things, what would government do

to ensure that these people who deserve the treatment are actually

protected from these criminals and drug lords? [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, thank you very much, Mr Singh.

Clearly, this is an act of criminality and the law enforcement units

have to protect all citizens and not only those who are or may be in

possession of ARVs. That’s what we should do as communities and as

government to ensure that law enforcement units in this country do
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 41 of 163

away with such elements in our midst and that the correctional

services correct them forever. Thank you.

Mr P F SMITH: Speaker, I would like to switch the question from

treatment to prevention, if I may. Members would know that South

Africa is, in fact, on the forefront of HIV prevention research. The

Centre for the Aids Programme of Research in South Africa, Caprisa,

2004 study released last year was really internationally acclaimed.

It is really important research.

Speaker, there is an agreement that we need to fast-track the

results of that research because it is so important. The 2004 study

was funded by the Americans and partly by the South Africans. The

Caprisa 2008 confirmatory study needs to go ahead now.

The Americans have put their money on the line and we haven’t. The

project is stalled because there is no money. Chairperson, we are in

Women’s Month and it is a prevention that empowers women and

prevents deaths amongst potentially huge numbers of women. Mr

Speaker, the question that I put to the Deputy President is, why are

we being so tardy as a country in funding this programme? If the

Deputy President doesn’t have the answer now, could he, perhaps,

undertake to investigate the matter and revert to us with an answer?

Thank you.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 42 of 163

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Speaker, thank you, Mr Smith. Hon members,

I do not have the answer right now, but I undertake to investigate

and revert to you in writing. Thank you.

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, thank you Deputy President for your response.

The DA welcomes the continuing expansion of the ARV treatment

programme. Deputy President, the recent study by the HIV Prevention

Trials Network has revealed that by initiating treatment for HIV-

positive people it reduces by 96% the risks of transmission to their


Women in South Africa bear the brunt of the HIV/Aids pandemic, which

is exacerbated by a patriarchal society where many men do not

believe in protective sex. Given that, Sanac is currently developing

its 2012 to 2016 national strategic plan conducted in conjunction

with the Department of Health and the Department of Finance. This

will assist in determining what it would cost if we were to provide

every HIV infected person with ARVs in our country and the future

savings through reduced infections that that would bring, as well as

health costs. Deputy President, if you have not done so, would you

give this House the assurance that you would do? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, thank you very much, Mr Waters. We

haven’t done that kind of a study yet. At the moment, as I said, we

will only be able to announce the extension of treatment to those

with a CD4 count of 350 by 12 August this year. That was based on a
24 AUGUST 2011                                                   PAGE: 43 of 163

costing exercise conducted by the Ministry of Health and by National

Treasury. We haven’t gone that far. That is the step that, I

suppose, we’ll have to take in the near future.

Our effort is really also aimed at ensuring that we reduce new

infections through spreading the word and ensuring that we prevent

new infections and place more people on treatment - if that is

outstripped by the rate of new infections, it means that we are not

winning the battle. That is what is preoccupying Sanac at this point

in time. Thank you.

     Particulars regarding awareness of High Level Forum on Aid

     Effectiveness (HLF4) and support for African Platform for

                     Development Effectiveness (APDev)

6.   Prof B Turok (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

     (1)   Whether he has been informed of the forthcoming high-level

           Forum     on    Aid        Effectiveness    (HLF4)      convened   by   the

           Organisation         for    Economic     Co-operation    and   Development

           (OECD) to be held in Busan, South Korea from 29 November

           to 1 December 2011; if so,

     (2)   whether the Government has taken any steps to demonstrate

           support        for    the      African     Platform     for    Development

           Effectiveness (APDev), which was adopted in Addis Ababa by
24 AUGUST 2011                                        PAGE: 44 of 163

          the African Union, African Development Bank and Nepad on

          27 March 2011 and which is to be presented at the Busan

          Conference; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant


    (3)   whether the Government has informed the public about its

          support of this initiative; if not, why not; if so, what

          are the relevant details;

    (4)   whether a high-level government delegation will attend the

          Busan conference; if not, what is the position in this

          regard; if so,

    (5)   whether he will invite members of Parliament to be part of

          the delegation;     if not, why   not; if   so, what    are the

          relevant details?                                      NO1420E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, Prof Turok, yes,

I am aware of the High-Level Forum on Aid Effectiveness. Invitations

were extended to government by the Embassy of the Republic of Korea

in Pretoria in June this year.

As members may be aware, the Africa Platform for Development

Effectiveness, APDev, was officially launched during the African

Union Economic Commission for Africa Joint Annual Meetings of
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 45 of 163

Conference of African Ministers of Finance, Planning and Economic

Development in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, on 27 March this year.

Though the Minister of Finance was unable to attend the launch, in

his response to the invitation he expressed the South African

government’s support for multistakeholder dialogue that promotes a

unified message for Africa to grow out of aid, enhance domestic

resource mobilisation, deepen ownership and promote South-South co-


Government intends to inform the public of its support for this

initiative through the communication channels that are managed by

the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS. The South

African government will be represented in Busan by a high-level

delegation. Furthermore, the invitation from the Korean Embassy also

requests that Members of Parliament and representatives from civil

society be included in the South African delegation.

The SPEAKER: Before I give the floor to the hon Turok to ask a

supplementary question, I want to give an opportunity to Mr Goqwana

to ask a question; we inadvertently skipped him.

Mr M B GOQWANA: Mr Speaker, I thank the Deputy President; even for

the decision that was made. I guess if this was done a year ago, we

would have been very worried about the fact that there are

inequities in health. However, because the Department of Health has
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 46 of 163

started re-engineering primary health care, which is a precursor to

universal coverage, we tend to think that this is going to be able

to reach everybody and, obviously, have the intended consequence of

making sure that everybody gets antiretrovirals.

I guess this is not a question, but a comment. We are very happy

that this has been started at a time of universal discussion of

universal coverage.

Prof B TUROK: Mr Speaker, Deputy President, I am delighted to hear

your response. I was present at the launch of the APDev and was very

moved by that occasion. I should say that it has taken considerable

effort by four of the most important organisations in Africa - the

African Development Bank, the African Union, New Partnership for

Africa’s Development, Nepad, and the Economic Commission for Africa

- to inform the donor countries that Africa’s poverty cannot be

overcome by aid alone.

Instead, aid can only be a catalyst in home-grown development right

across the continent. My question, therefore, is: How can this House

best show its political support for the new pan-African approach to

donor aid? Can you help us on that?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I think hon Turok is a true professor;

he knows the answer, but he is asking me the question. [Laughter.]
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 47 of 163

As I said, the invitation requests of the South African government,

should include Members of this Parliament in the delegation.

Therefore, I would imagine that in preparing for participation in

Busan, the members will have to ponder the question of how best to

strengthen intra-Africa trade, beginning with the regional trade

within the Southern African Development Community, SADC, itself and

also to address the challenge. Aid, as we know, only freezes poverty

and dependence. It is, therefore, advisable to explore ways of

moving away from dependence on aid.

I don’t have a magic formula for that other than that we should use

our challenges of social and economic backlogs in South Africa, as

well as the rest of the African continent, to create stronger intra-

African trade. Thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, on a point of order: We are battling to hear;

the microphone seems to be turned down very low. It’s very difficult

to hear what’s being said.

The SPEAKER: Would somebody just check the microphone and would

everybody speak into their microphones.

Mr M B SKOSANA: Mr Speaker and Deputy President, in view of

subsection 3, 4 and 5 of question 6 - in the case that the Deputy

President answers in the positive, which he did, bearing in mind

that aid and the factors that hamper its effectiveness or the
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 48 of 163

passage of that, such as factionalism, armed conflicts, warlordism,

corruption, small arms proliferation, bad leadership, lack of co-

ordination, are the permanent features of this edifice - should the

government not contemplate establishing a permanent and inclusive

aid commission or structure or organ, which will deal with aid

internationally and nationally?

The SPEAKER: The volume has been turned up. If it’s still not

audible, you can use the earpieces.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Skosana and hon members, I am

sure that, once there are concrete proposals for government to

consider, government will no doubt do so. However, at this point in

time, the issue, really, is how to ensure that the requisite aid is

made available without becoming too dependent on it. As the

professor said earlier on, we need to explore and move away from

reliance on aid. That’s what the AU, the African Development Bank,

ADB, as well as the Commission for Africa are considering at this

point in time.

Mr K S MUBU: Mr Speaker, Mr Deputy President, In your view, how does

the African Platform for Development Effectiveness, APDev, enhance

or benefit or, in fact, dovetail with the initiatives that the SADC

is currently undertaking for the region, in particular, and for the

continent, or is this another duplication of effort by different

organisations? However, it is also well known that donor aid has
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 49 of 163

been used corruptly in some countries. Are there measures that the

AU has put in place to counter this? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the African Platform for Development

Effectiveness consists of the ADB and the Economic Commission for

Africa, and was initiated by Ministers of Finance Planning and

Economic Development in Africa, because they realised that African

countries who depended mainly – even for their national budgets – on

aid will forever be in that position of weakness, despite all the

natural resources in Africa.

Therefore, this platform is meant for them to compare notes and

share perspectives on the effectiveness of the development plans on

the continent; that’s really the purpose. The Busan conference will

be the second such conference that they participate in. Therefore,

it’s really early days; it’s not clear yet as to how effective the

platform will be. Thank you.

The SPEAKER: Hon Nyamie Booi, the person seated next to you really

wants to listen to the Deputy President; you are really interfering

with his right to listen. [Interjections.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, hon Deputy President, in demonstrating

support for APDev, what progress, if any, has there been in the

development of a database on regional and international commitments

in aid effectiveness, south-south co-operation and capacity
24 AUGUST 2011                                            PAGE: 50 of 163

development for regular updating to facilitate follow-ups? Thank


The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, hon Dudley, as I said, these are

early days. I am not aware that there is any data that has been

developed because our Minister of Finance missed the first meeting.

He is most likely to attend the second meeting. Thank you.

Particulars regarding any official request by government to Nato to

     stop bombing of Libya, and any objection to policy in support of

                            regime change in Libya

7.     Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Deputy President:

       Whether the Government has officially (a) requested the North

       Atlantic   Treaty   Organisation   (Nato)   to   stop   the   bombing     of

       Libya that has      resulted in the    death of civilians and (b)

       objected to any policy in support of regime change in Libya; if

       not, why not; if so, what is          the   Government’s      policy with

       regard to regime change in a sovereign country?                 NO2508E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon members, the government of

South Africa has said repeatedly that hostilities in Libya need to

end, including the bombing by Nato. President Zuma made this point

very clearly in his engagements with Prime Minister Cameron of
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 51 of 163

Britain, who recently visited our country, to President Medvedev of

Russia, as well as to the Nato secretary general, Anders Fogh

Rasmussen, when he attended a special meeting in Russia recently.

The President as well as the Minister and Deputy Minister of

International Relations and Co-operation have consistently spoken

out against Nato’s violation of the mandate of UN Security Council

Resolution 1973 in seeking regime change and against the resultant

loss of civilian lives as it continues its bombing campaign of


The South African government has been clear in all engagements on

the matter of Libya that it is against regime change and will

continue to raise this issue in an attempt to prevent further loss

of civilian lives and in seeking the adoption and implementation of

the African Union roadmap by all parties involved in the Libyan


Hon member, the AU has made it very clear that the Libyan people

must determine their own future through an inclusive process that

will ensure a full democratisation of all political institutions.

This will allow for macroeconomic recovery and the restoration of

normality in Libyan society.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 52 of 163

As hon Meshoe is aware, it is our collective view as leaders in

Africa that no illegal removal of a government can be justified, not

least through violent means. I thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, apologies from Rev Meshoe, he has asked

me to follow up on his behalf. Thank you for the information. It is

also our understanding that government is now reluctant to recognise

the National Transitional Council. In this regard, South Africa’s

offer to help Libya draft its new constitution, to whom would that

offer have been made given government’s reluctance in this area?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the formal recognition of the

Transitional Council, hon Dudley, must be seen as a separate matter

from the obligation and duty of contributing towards an all-

inclusive process involving all Libyans in finding a peaceful and

democratic way of moving forward from this current conflict-ridden


Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, within the context

of the current situation in Libya, the big question would be: What

is the position of South Africa with regard to continuing advocating

democracy and human rights within Libya, especially ingratiating

itself with the Libyans, that is now the general citizenry of Libya,

so that we continue to occupy the space? What is the position of

South Africa on that, in the language that is understood by the

Libyan people?
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 53 of 163

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you, hon Ngonyama. The

position of the South African government is in line with that of the

AU. The AU roadmap is the only honourable roadmap that would lead to

peace, stability and democratisation of all institutions in Libya.

Of course, we continue to be in a position to speak to both the

people in Benghazi and Tripoli, because the people of Libya, as a

people, deserve all the support they can muster and the South

African government is willing to play its role in that regard. Thank


Mr M B SKOSANA: Mr Speaker, it is widely argued, Deputy President,

that the International Criminal Court intends charging Col Gaddafi

and his associates for crimes against his own people, and possibly

charging the rebel contingent for possible violation of human

rights. Therefore, in the light of those who perished as a result of

the bombings by Nato, who is going to be held lawfully accountable

for those atrocities? I know that the Deputy President might simply

have a view and not an answer.

The SPEAKER: Thank you very much for that view on the view of the

Deputy President.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, my tuppence worth of view on this matter

is that indeed the UN Security Council resolution, which was aimed

at protecting civilians, initially from bombings by the government

of Col Muammar Gaddafi, was in a sense overstretched by Nato forces.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 54 of 163

That in itself creates a problem for the UN Security Council and for

future interventions. As you are well aware, the situation in Syria

is also of grave concern precisely because of this precedent created

in Libya.

The UN Security Council has not been able to agree on how to

intervene in Syria. As you know, in the Security Council there are

permanent member states with veto power. So, if they don’t want any

resolution to see the light of day they veto it. In Libya, those who

did not vote for Resolution 1973 abstained, which allowed the

resolution to go through. But because of this precedence it has

created very serious doubts in the permanent members of the UN

Security Council.

Therefore, if the International Criminal Court, ICC, is to act on

the basis of concrete information against those who would have been

responsible for loss of lives of civilians, it would be very

difficult for Nato to justify why and how it came to any conclusion.

We know that they are now attempting to create the impression that

the rebels are acting on their own regarding attacks in Tripoli, but

there are clear links and co-ordination at that level. The question

is whether the ICC would have the wherewithal to unearth that

information and bring those who are responsible to book, including

the Nato commanders on the ground.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 55 of 163

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, for the ANC, in

pursuance of promoting democratic peace, we must all accept that

democracies do not go to war with one another, even where democracy

does not exist, but continue to push for the dominant mode of the

South African view, and that of a negotiated solution for an

inclusive government; even as the Minister of International

Relations has said, “When the visitors leave Libya, the Africans

will remain dealing with the African problems”. What are the

challenges, Deputy President, with the implementation of the

postconflict strategy, as there will be no successful peacebuilding

without socioeconomic or political stability?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, well, the difficulty really with the

current Libyan situation is that nobody knows who these rebels are.

They are a potpourri of ethnic groupings because the Libyan

situation was very unfortunate in the sense that brother leader, Col

Muammar Gaddafi, presided over that country with a small group of

military generals – about 11 of them - over all these years. I think

five years ago, he even reduced that number to six. So his cabinet,

so to speak, consisted of only six members. And the institutions

were really tribal institutions.

The only advantage is that at least they were able to invest in the

education of their citizens. So, there are so many highly educated

people in Libya because the state covered the studies of their

citizens up to PhD level. Hopefully, because they are educated, one
24 AUGUST 2011                                            PAGE: 56 of 163

would assume that they are cultured and would see value in dialogue

and in finding an inclusive solution. Otherwise, it is really an

ethnic community.

That is why, when the Gaddafi government started bombing Benghazi,

the soldiers who were - even generals - in that army who came from

those tribes of Benghazi left the army, because their own tribesmen

and children were being bombed and they went back home. Essentially,

they need to establish almost from scratch the institutions of

democracy. And that is why we believe they need all the assistance

they can receive in that direction.

Extent of South African involvement in relief efforts in respect of

                       humanitarian crises in Somalia

8.   Mr S Mokgalapa (DA) asked the Deputy President:

     (1)   What   is   the   full   extent   of   all   South   African   relief

           efforts in respect of the current humanitarian crises in


     (2)   whether the Government co-operated with any African Union

           member states in contributing to the relief efforts; if

           not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) with

           which specified countries and (b) what are the further

           relevant details of the contributions?                     NO2519E
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 57 of 163

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, hon Mokgalapa, the South African

Government has responded to the humanitarian crises confronting

Somalia by raising R8 million towards the famine relief programme,

R4 million of which was donated to the Gift of the Givers towards

the transportation and logistical costs of delivering aid to


Furthermore, and in line with South Africa’s foreign policy

objective of the consolidation of the African Agenda, the South

African government, in partnership with Brand South Africa, has

teamed up with the Gift of the Givers, and launched the Somalia

Relief Campaign to raise public awareness of the dire situation in

Somalia and to galvanise South Africans to make donations for relief

efforts in that East African country.

The South African government also provided transport in the form of

a South African National Defence Force C130 Hercules supply plane to

the Gift of the Givers to deliver 18 tons of essential food and

antimalaria medication to Mogadishu on 16 August 2011. This latest

consignment brings to 120 tons the total aid delivered to Somalia by

the Gift of the Givers in a two-week period.

In addition, government collaborated with other South African-based

organisations that are contributing to the relief work for Somalis

in Somalia and in refugee camps in neighbouring countries. These

organisations include Islamic Relief South Africa, Africa Muslim
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 58 of 163

Agency, Netcare South Africa, the Al-Imdaad Foundation and the

Somali Community Board of South Africa. Members of the South African

business community were also motivated to contribute, and food and

other essential items were donated.

The total amount of the South African contribution, including

government and civil society, is difficult to quantify at this

stage, but certainly exceeds R20 million.

As the hon member is aware, the African Union hosts the Pledging

Conference this week in Addis Ababa, where the South African

government will make further pledges.

Let me use this opportunity to restate that South Africa, SADC and

the AU’s position on Somalia is that it is only under conditions of

peace, stability and unity that a humanitarian crisis like this can

be mitigated.

We therefore call on all parties involved to work towards a lasting

solution to the political crisis in that country.

Once again we thank all individuals and organisations in South

Africa that made contributions through various platforms, including

the SABC telethon. I thank you.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 59 of 163

Mr S MOKGALAPA: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Deputy

President for the reply. I wish also to recognise the efforts of

everyone involved.

However, the Somali humanitarian crisis is an international source

of concern, particularly for Africa. The role of the AU has been

very ham-fisted and uncoordinated, due to the fact that there is no

humanitarian arm in the AU that specifically deals with such crises.

The question therefore is whether you would agree that the AU needs

to have a humanitarian agency or arm that will be responsible for

dealing specifically with such crises in future, and what the South

Africa government is doing to encourage the AU to establish such.

Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, I should like to thank hon Mokgalapa.

The need for a permanent humanitarian agency no doubt exists, but

many of the African countries depend on aid, including aid for their

own budgets. Some of them even struggle to pay their dues to the AU.

However, that does not mean that such a body or agency should not be

established or resources mobilised for such emergencies. I believe

this is an idea that can be taken forward through the Department of

International Relations and Co-operation. Thank you.

Mr K S MUBU: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the Deputy President

for the replies. Considering that there is no central government in
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 60 of 163

Somalia, what role has the AU played to ensure that all relief

efforts to this country are co-ordinated and that they reach those

who really deserve the help? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, yes, indeed, there is a central

government in Somalia. It is an interim government, but it is unable

to move out of Mogadishu. Essentially, Somalia is under the control

of family warlords.

However, despite this tragedy, the relief is able to reach those who

need it most, as I said, both inside Somalia as well as in refugee

camps in the immediate surrounding neighbour states. So, that part

is taken care of because the peacekeeping forces continue to push

the warlords back and are able to reach the needy, internally

displaced people. Thank you.

Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon Speaker, in appreciating all the efforts the

Deputy President has alluded to, is it perhaps not about time for

us, in pursuance of the proposal for the special fund that was

suggested, to have an extraordinary donor conference that can be

dedicated to lessen that famine? Would the government be agreeable

to a proposal for such a conference to be organised and maybe make a

call to the AU as well? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, perhaps we have to suggest to our

leaders who would be attending the Pledging Conference this week,
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 61 of 163

also to place this proposal on the table and see what the response

would be from other member states. As I have said, a pledging

conference has been convened in Addis Ababa for this week. Thank


The SPEAKER: I thank the hon Deputy President. Hon members, that

concludes questions to the Deputy President. Thank you, Deputy

President. [Applause.]

The next item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to Ministers

in the Economic Cluster. Hon members, I have been informed that

Question 89 and Question 91, which have been asked by the hon G M

Borman and the hon H P Maluleka, respectively, to the Minister of

Public Enterprises have been withdrawn. Question 146 has been asked

by the hon D T George to the Minister of Finance.


                               Cluster 4


       Progress in implementation of proposed youth wage subsidy

146. Dr D T George (DA) to ask the Minister of Finance:
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 62 of 163

    Whether any progress has been made with the implementation of

    the proposed youth wage subsidy; if not, why not; if so, what

    are the relevant details?                               NO2474E

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, the youth employment subsidy

discussion paper entitled “Confronting Youth Unemployment: Policy

Options for South Africa” was released on Budget day, as we all

know. The discussion paper proposed that the youth employment

subsidy be implemented from 2012, following a process of

consultation that included firstly, discussion between the economic

sectors and the employment cluster of the youth employment subsidy,

as part of the multipronged strategy to tackle youth unemployment.

Secondly, discussions were initiated on the youth employment subsidy

and other proposals through the Nedlac process to gather further

inputs from social partners.

Finally, proposals were made to the Cabinet.

Discussions have taken place within the economic sectors and the

employment cluster, and consultation with social partners began at

Nedlac on 10 May 2011. These discussions are ongoing and, alongside

the public comments received on the discussion paper, will inform a

revised document. Thank you.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 63 of 163

Dr D T GEORGE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his

response. Minister, you are reported to have said that South Africa

can only create 4 million jobs by 2025 on our current growth

trajectory and that this is not enough to make a dent in

unemployment. This is below the New Growth Path objective to

create 5 million jobs by 2020. A youth wage subsidy is a fiscal

policy intervention to lower the price to employers of new and

inexperienced workers, but it will not resolve the problem of

unemployment and poverty on its own.

Hon Minister, you have said: “We may have to change the labour

dispensation in South Africa”. We know that Cosatu does not support

the youth wage subsidy. What steps are you taking to ensure that

their opposition to it does not prevent its implementation? Thank


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, the hon George is conceding that,

firstly, we do need ambitious targets for job creation in South

Africa. Secondly, the whole purpose of the New Growth Path is to set

the economy on a trajectory which will enable us to begin to reach

out to that kind of ambitious target.

Nowhere in the New Growth Path do we suggest that the youth wage

subsidy is the only way in which we will get there. There is a host

of measures, which include, amongst others, microeconomic and

macroeconomic sectoral interventions and the Ipap programme that Min
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 64 of 163

Davies is championing, that will be required to get us to the

5 million jobs.

Let us also be very mindful of the global economy and the dynamics

that are unfolding there. All of that also will have a serious

impact upon growth prospects in South Africa. Exactly what those

impacts will be will be determined in the next few months as we get

some level of stability within the global situation, if we get there

at all.

The discussions in Nedlac are aimed precisely at understanding the

concerns, some of which are very legitimate, such as: Will workers

that are subsidised through the youth wage subsidy replace existing

permanent workers in an enterprise? Will there be other unintended

consequences? Our appeal to everyone concerned is that the youth

wage subsidy is only one instrument amongst many others. There are

other strategies being worked upon as well and, finally, if there

are design issues as far as youth wage subsidy is concerned, let us

sit around the table and find relevant answers. Thank you.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Mr Speaker, to the hon Minister, my question is in

regard to those unintended consequences that you have just touched

on. In implementing the proposals, what monitoring process do you

foresee being in place to prevent the growth of businesses whose

only rationale is to absorb public money through subsidies, to

prevent employers replacing unsubsidised workers, as you mentioned,
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 65 of 163

with the subsidised ones and to prevent the wasting of government

money if jobs that would have existed in any event are also

subsidised? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, these are precisely the kinds of

issues that we hope to address through the Nedlac and other

processes. Clearly - and I must reiterate this quite emphatically -

the intention is certainly not all of the issues that hon Dudley has

mentioned as the outcomes of any process like this. However, let me

also reiterate that we should not think that the youth wage subsidy

is the panacea for the unemployment problems that we have in South


There are many more things we need to do to restructure and

reposition our economy. The monitoring mechanisms, in this

particular regard, will, certainly, have to ensure that the kind of

consequences that the hon member is speaking about are not the

outcomes of any of this process.

Mr T D HARRIS: Mr Speaker, the Minister is correct in saying that

the New Growth Path does not say that the youth wage subsidy is the

only way of tackling youth unemployment, mainly because the New

Growth Path does not mention the youth wage subsidy. Nevertheless,

Mr Speaker, in February this year, National Treasury published the

discussion document on the youth wage subsidy 10 months late. The

former director-general said that the discussion document appears to
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 66 of 163

present the subsidy as a definite plan which would have been

implemented on 1 April, but it was a proposal and not a policy of

government. So my question is: Is this a proposal or a policy?

Secondly, what are the prospects of Treasury missing their second

major deadline on implementation of the youth wage subsidy?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, given that we are saying this is

one of many proposals before all of us to find solutions to, in

particular, youth unemployment in South Africa, there is nothing

fatal about missing one or other deadline. The real issue is: how do

we accommodate all of the concerns there might be? How do we

accommodate alternate ideas that there might be on this particular

issue of the youth wage subsidy or anything else?

What hon members need to focus their minds on is what alternate

proposals we have. What other ideas do we have to create employment

in South Africa? Hon members should rather not take this kind of

approach, which I don’t think is helpful ultimately. So, in direct

response to hon Harris, a lot depends upon the consultation

processes as to whether this or any other idea gets off the ground.

However, I must reiterate that we share the urgency, that I hope

other members share as well, that something needs to get off the

ground to ensure that unemployed youth do have better prospects than

they have had up to now.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 67 of 163

Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Speaker, through you to the Minister, the ANC would

like to understand whether the private sector will be involved in

the youth wage subsidy. If so, what criteria will be used to select

those companies that will be utilising a subsidy? That is the first


The second one, within the consultation process, some of the ...

The SPEAKER: Hon member, the rule is just one question, not a series

of questions.

Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Sorry Speaker, it is a follow-up. [Laughter.] It is

a continuation.

The SPEAKER: Is it a continuation of the follow-up? [Laughter.]

Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Yes. [Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: Please conclude, hon member.

Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Speaker, some of the stakeholders raised an issue

that the subsidy might be abused in the sense that the companies

will retrench their employees and then employ the youth, to be in a

position to utilise the subsidy. Based on that, hon Minister do you

have any monitoring measures regarding that? [Time expired.]
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 68 of 163

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker and hon Dubazana, the private

sector is involved through the Nedlac process and the criteria will

be the willingness of a company to abide by the conditions of the

youth wage subsidy. In that sense, the companies will self-select.

On the issue of monitoring, I actually answered that question when I

responded to the earlier ones. Thank you.

  Particulars regarding co-operation by department in relation to

      investigation into awarding of Sishen prospecting rights

137. Mr P D Dexter (Cope) asked the Minister of Mineral Resources:

    Whether      her   department   is   co-operating   fully    in       the

    investigation with regard to the awarding of Sishen prospecting

    rights to Imperial Crown Trading; if not, why not; if so, what

    are the relevant details with regard to the raid on her office

    by the Directorate for Priority Crimes Investigation (Hawks)?

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the answer to

hon Dexter is that the issue of the Information and Communications

Technology, ICT, with Kumba is in court. That particular right is in

court right now. When it comes to the issue of the Hawks, I just

need to indicate that their action was highly irregular and

24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 69 of 163

Mr P D DEXTER: Deputy Speaker, is the Minister aware that one of the

shareholders in ICT, whose name can be furnished to her, has been

implicated in a number of similar cases where mineral rights have

been awarded to companies associated with the individual concerned,

under similar dubious circumstances?

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Deputy Speaker, hon member, we

have a process of how people apply to be involved in the mining

industry. We do not count numbers as to how many times they have

applied. What we are guided by is the law. In the law, the issues

you are raising are in there. I am not aware as to what areas you

are referring to wherein the person concerned has been involved.

You are better informed, I do not know it. Therefore, I cannot

respond to that. So far, what we have is legitimate. You also have

the right to apply. We do not look at whether you apply a hundred

times, but at whether your application is compliant. That’s what

guides us in terms of the law.

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the raid on the

office of the department by the Hawks indicates the disastrous state

of affairs and the lack of trust in the ability of the department to

fulfil its task in issuing mining licences.

It does not help you slamming the Hawks. Flowing from the above,

will the Minister consider the establishment of an independent
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 70 of 163

regulator to fulfil its tasks, to avoid any raids by the Hawks in

future and to ensure the trust in the department is rebuilt? Thank


The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Deputy Speaker, if the hon member

thinks that what has been done by the Hawks was right – he is wrong.

They did not only raid our offices as the state, they also raided

the state law advisors. What does it mean to you as a Member of


The state no longer has the right to defend itself. If they also

raid your lawyers as an individual, when they are defending you,

would you allow the law enforcement agencies to raid those people?

It is irregular, because the state law advisors were our legal

advisors. That is exactly what we are saying - it is irregular.

I do not understand what you mean by the independent regulator. We

are the regulator. We are independent from what? Because everything

falls within a particular law. You cannot talk about irregular.

Mr M F GONA: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, we are wondering

in our minds whether the raid by the Hawks was really necessary.

Therefore, the questions are: Firstly, did the Hawks request any

information from the Department of Minerals and Energy, through

either normal government channels or in any other manner whatsoever,

before conducting this Hollywood-style raid?
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 71 of 163

Secondly, there is a recent interdict granted by the Northern Cape

High Court that bars the usage of the information in the possession

of the Hawks or the passing over of that information to Kumba or to

other litigants. In your view, does this not suggest any possible

collision between the elements within the Hawks and the litigants

involved in the current case between government and the Department

of Mineral Resources? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I just wanted

to indicate to the hon member that the issue he raised about the

interdict was indeed irregular. Hon member, you are right, we went

to court because it was quite clear that there was some information

taken by the Hawks and given to Kumba. That raises a lot of

questions about the legitimacy of the raid conducted by the Hawks.

When any law enforcement agency raids an institution, it should

record and keep that information. So we were surprised that the

information was immediately passed on to Kumba. You raised another

question about the actions of the Hawks - it is quite clear that

they had gone beyond their jurisdiction.

Those are some of the issues which make us wonder what the

relationship between Kumba and the Hawks, as a law enforcement

agency, is.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 72 of 163

Mnu V B NDLOVU: Sekela Somlomo, mhlonishwa uma ngizwa kahle

umhlonishwa usho ukuthi ngamanye amazwi, okokuqala, laba

ababephenya babefanele ukuba bacele kuyena yini? Okwesibili, ngabe

ngizwa kahle uma umhlonishwa ethi bathatha imibuzo yonke bayimikisa

kuKumba, asimazi-ke thina uKumba sizwa ngaye umhlonishwa ekhuluma


Thina sazi ukuthi yilabo abebefanele ukuphenya. Ukuphenya kanti

kufanele kutshelwe loyo muntu ofanelwe aphenywe yini? Noma kufanele

ukuthi baphenywe labo okufanelwe baphenywe ngoba bayizigebengu?

(Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if I understand

you well, in other words you mean that firstly, these people who

were investigating were supposed to ask for permission from you?

Secondly, I did not quite understand well when you said that they

took all the questions and gave them to Kumba - we do not know what

Kumba is; we only hear the hon Minister talking about it.

What we know is that they were supposed to be investigated. If one

is to be investigated, are the investigators supposed to ask

permission from the one who is going to be investigated? Or should

those who are supposed to be investigated be investigated because

they are the criminals.]
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 73 of 163

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, they do not

have to ask for permission from me. The protocol says that the

Minister of Police was supposed to write to the Minister of Justice,

who in turn was supposed to write to me indicating that they

required the following information from my department. This did not

happen. It was never brought to the attention of the three of us.

Siyezwana bab’uNdlovu? Abazange basitshele, abatshelanga muntu. Into

abayenzile bahambe bayotshela amaphepha, bazisa abamaphephandaba

ukuthi bazohlasela (raid), sayithola naleyo. Okwesibili, uma ubuza

ukuthi lokho abakwenzile babenayo imvume na?

Njengoba singuhulumeni imvume kufanele ihambe ngendlela efanele,

ngendlela yokucela. Uma singavumi, kumele uNgqongqoshe

wezoBulungiswa asho ukuthi uzothatha siphi isinqumo. Hhayi bamane

batheleke emahovisini kahulumeni benguhulumeni. (Translation of

isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Do we understand each other, hon Ndlovu? They did not tell us, they

told no one. They informed the press that they were going to raid;

we also got that one. Secondly, are you asking whether they had

permission to do what they did?

As the government, the permission should follow the correct protocol

of requesting. When we do not give permission, the Minister of

Justice and Constitutional Development must say which decision he is
24 AUGUST 2011                                            PAGE: 74 of 163

going to take. Not to just burst into the government’s offices

whilst they are government themselves.]

    Particulars regarding contribution by department to Witsand

integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-Cost Optimisation housing

     initiative in Atlantis and Kuyasa Projects in Western Cape

118. Mr S J Njikelana (ANC) asked the Minister of Energy:

    (1)   Whether   her    department    contributes    to   the   (a)     Witsand

          integrated        Energy        Environment         Empowerment-Cost

          Optimisation (iEEECO) housing initiative in Atlantis, and

          (b) Kuyasa Projects in the Western Cape; if not, what is

          the    position in   this regard, if so, (i) what               type of

          contribution does her department make in each case and

          (ii) what is the envisaged duration of her department's

          contribution in each case;

    (2)   whether    any    impact      resulted   from      her   department's

          contribution; if not, what is the position in this regard,

          if so, what are the relevant details;

     (3) whether her department identified any lessons during its

          contribution to the specified projects; if not, why not;

          if so, what are the relevant details?                          NO2437E
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 75 of 163

The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank hon Sisa

Njikelana for the question. The question is in relation to the

matters related to the integrated Energy Environment Empowerment –

Cost Optimisation, iEEECO. I just want to say that the department

has never been requested to participate in the Witsand iEEECO


With regard to the Kuyasa project, the answer is: Yes, the

Designated National Authority, DNA, within the Department of Energy

issued a letter of approval to Kuyasa in 2005. A letter of approval

is a prerequisite for any project that wishes to participate in the

Clean Development Mechanism, CDM, under the United Nations Framework

Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC.

The rules and procedures governing the CDM require a letter of

approval from the DNA of the host country, which confirms that the

project’s activity assists the country in achieving sustainable

development. This was a once-off process from the department and the

project could receive the Certified Emission Reductions, CERs, if

its performance gets approval from the executive board. The

accreditation period for this project is seven years.

To part two of the question, the answer would be, indirectly, yes.

Please note that the DNA does not provide any financial support to

projects. It does, however, provide technical support relating to

the clarification on CDM rules and procedures.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 76 of 163

Kuyasa was the first South African CDM project to be registered and

also the first gold standard project in the world. In 2008, the DNA

nominated Kuyasa for the UNFCCC CDM International Photo Contest 2008

under the theme “Changing Lives”, which it subsequently won. It

received capital grants from the Department of Water and

Environmental Affairs and the provincial government Department of

Housing. The project has retrofitted 2 310 houses with solar water

heaters, insulated the ceilings and provided electrical wiring and

compact fluorescent light bulbs.

The greenhouse gas emission reductions are estimated to be

approximately 2,8 tons per household per year over a period of seven

years. The project will generate income from the sale of carbon

emission reduction certificates. A ton of certified emission

reduction can be traded at approximately 10 to 13 euros on the spot


With regard to part three, the department has noted some lessons

from this project and the project can be replicated throughout the

country. Kuyasa has created a focus of attention for dealing with

renewable energy in households and throughout the country.

Another similar project called the Sassa Low Pressure Solar Water

Heater Programme was registered by the CDM executive board on 12

April 2011. A number of projects are underway, including the Cosmo

City solar water heating project of the City of Johannesburg, the
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 77 of 163

Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality and the Ekurhuleni Municipality

solar water heating projects. These projects are also benefiting

from the energy efficiency and demand side management fiscal

allocations. Thank you.

Mr S J NJIKELANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I must thank - through you -

the hon Minister. Even my follow-up question has been answered. All

I can do is to commend her on the work that the department has done.

This actually highlights the need for us to introduce energy

efficiency practices in housing. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Njikelana; that was not a

question. I call upon hon Mazibuko.

Mr D C ROSS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am sure it is Ross. I think the

microphones have just been mixed up, thank you. I will ask the

question on behalf of hon Mazibuko.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will not start with that different

microphones thing, huh?

Mr D C ROSS: Yes, we hope it will be sorted out, Madam Deputy

Speaker, thank you. May I proceed?

24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 78 of 163

Mr D C ROSS: Thank you for your response, hon Minister. Recognising

the progress in this wonderful project, I think many of the

questions I had in mind have already been answered. Let me just ask

whether the department still has plans to extend these projects

outside the Western Cape - as you have indicated - because of the

progress. Do you, perhaps, have any targets set for the department

to be involved in these projects, as you have mentioned that the

department has not been involved? Could the Minister also confirm –

and I think you have made a confirmation of 310 houses – but how

many houses were built, specifically, in Atlantis and Kuyasa; and

what was the cost, approximately, per home because that would be

interesting? Could you also, perhaps, give an indication regarding

the total cost of the project? With regard to the lessons learned,

Madam Minister, I thank you. I think this is very important as this

project optimises the potential for harvesting solar and wind as

renewable energy projects. I thank you.

The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Deputy Speaker, thank you for the question

from Mr Mazibuko-Ross ... [Laughter.] ... Mr Ross, as I have

indicated in my response, it is our intention to use the lessons

learned from Kuyasa, because, as you would have realised, there is

an integrated energy solution for households, through which we could

be able to make sure that South African households or houses are

energy efficient or have an integrated energy solution in future.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 79 of 163

Let me just indicate that the Department of Energy, together with

the Department of Trade and Industry, is finalising the building

construction regulations. These regulations will determine that each

and every unit built in South Africa, irrespective of whether it is

a house or an industrial building, needs to have an integrated

energy solution; for example, gas for cooking and space heating, as

well as for other related heating services in a particular


However, solar water heating, in particular, is very important;

especially if you look at our hospitality industry. We have already

engaged with the Department of Tourism to make sure that they engage

the Tourism Grading Council so that energy efficiency becomes one of

the criteria to determine the grading of establishments.

However, you must also remember that we have indicated that we need

to reduce our over-reliance on electricity from the grid to make

sure that it is only the lights and other appliances that consume

electricity from it. I just need to indicate that I did arithmetic,

but I am unable to quickly calculate what 2,8 tons per household for

2 310 households could turn into in seven years. I will give myself

an opportunity to calculate that and give you the necessary

response. Thank you very much.

                 Progress made regarding job creation
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 80 of 163

94.   Mr N Singh (IFP) asked the Minister of Economic Development:

      Whether any progress has been made regarding the creation of

      jobs, with specific reference to the New Growth Path plan; if

      not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?      NO2404E

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, in 12 months -

up to the end of June this year - 64 000 new jobs were created. In

the nine-month period since the release of the New Growth Path

document, namely from the end of the third quarter of last year,

150 000 new jobs were created. After seven consecutive quarters of

year-on-year job losses, we have now had two quarters of consecutive

year-on-year job growth. If we break this down in more detail, using

1 October 2010 as the starting point, we see that the size of the

total labour force – that is the employed and unemployed - grew

significantly, particularly in the first two quarters of this year.

We had about 200 000 people entering the labour market in each of

the first two quarters of this year.

Secondly, the formal sector employment grew by about 155 000

persons, while the informal sector grew by 41 000 persons over that

period. But agriculture declined quite sharply by 42 000 jobs.

The pace of job growth has slowed down in the most recent quarter.

Since the release of the New Growth Path, government has taken a

number of steps to ensure that we address the challenge of jobs. In
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 81 of 163

the time available, I can only give a few examples on agriculture

and in agro-processing. For example, a number of large agro-

processing projects have been announced - a seed crushing plant in

Mpumalanga. This will create up to 4 000 job opportunities in

agriculture. A chicken farming project in the Free State has also

been announced, and it has an employment of about 800 persons.

In speeding up the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme with 65

sites and 7 500 young persons who were taken up in this programme,

the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, has set aside

R7,7 billion for investment in the agricultural value chain.

Similarly, we can give examples in mining and beneficiation and

manufacturing in the green economy. I will be very happy to pass

this information to the hon member. Thank you.

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon Minister for the

response and the initiatives that have been taken to ensure that

more jobs are created. Hon Minister, I have a report which says that

South Africa’s unemployment rate rose marginally to 25,7% in the

second quarter. More and more people are becoming unemployed, whilst

in certain areas, yes, you may be creating jobs.

I think the challenge, Minister - and I need a response from you -

is that, whilst economic growth predictions may suggest that we will

get a higher percentage in growth – the Minister of Finance may be

able to confirm this - it is not commensurate with growth in jobs.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 82 of 163

Maybe we will get more people - 3% or 3,5% of economic growth - but

this is not commensurate with jobs.

Both the Ministers in the Presidency: National Planning Commission

and in Finance have recently called for - and I want to be more

exact with this - more jobs-friendly legislation. We have not heard

you saying anything about that, Mr Minister, and I would like to

know if you have a view on that particular statement or on a call

for this. Thank you.


start with the first part of the follow-up question. I think what we

need to see with the job numbers is something very important. The

size of the labour force is growing dramatically. We had job growth

on a quarterly basis, but not fast enough. We don’t have enough job

growth to take account of the inadequate labour force.

Coming to the second issue, I think Minister Gordhan has given a

comprehensive reply to the question of youth employment. If one

wants to deal with labour market issues, there are three remarks I

want to make. The first one is that we need more than labour market

measures. We need a comprehensive response, and we need to set it

out in the New Growth Path - tackle monopoly pricing and

concentration ownership, address skills challenges in the economy

and deal with infrastructure issues.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 83 of 163

Secondly, we need to clearly define the labour market measures. What

are those measures? We have an option of concentrating on building

partnerships and tackling the productivity challenges of our

country, or alternatively of starting a major industrial conflict

over this or that piece of legislation. What government is focusing

on is how to build a common vision in this country and how to unite

everybody around a productivity vision.

This goes to the third point. Ultimately we are not going to resolve

these issues in a piecemeal way. For that we need a social accord

that brings together organised labour, the business community and

government and places difficult issues on the table - wages,

executive pay, prices and jobs. That is the approach we are taking

as government; that is the view set out in the New Growth Path; and

that is the view all my colleagues are propagating in their public

comments. Thank you.

Mr G B D MC INTOSH: Deputy Speaker, with specific reference to the

national growth path, has the hon Minister applied his mind on how

the benefits offered by the African Growth and Opportunity Act can

add value to the national growth path? In seeking partners - he has

just been talking about a social compact or an accord and support

for the New Growth Path - has the hon Minister sought to meet with

the senior management of Walmart and make them aware of the

competitive advantages given under the African Growth and

Opportunity Act for sourcing consumer products manufactured in
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 84 of 163

Africa and in South Africa? Since the Minister is here with his

formidable troika that is pushing this national growth path, perhaps

we should ask them if they, together as a troika, have sought to

build a positive and constructive relationship with Walmart to build

jobs for South African manufacturing.

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, I will let the

members of the troika speak for themselves.

Let me say that on the African Growth and Opportunity Act we do see

opportunities. Therefore, we are lobbying strongly for the extension

of the African Growth and Opportunity Act. We are also seeking

revision on some of the provisions of the African Growth and

Opportunity Act to benefit South African manufacturing.

Let me deal with the Walmart issue. The simplest answer to this is

that indeed we met with the management of Walmart on more than one

occasion, and we have engaged them precisely on this issue. The

issue was on how one can make sure that their entry to South Africa

helps to increase the total number of jobs in our economy, both by

them procuring locally and by them incorporating South African

companies in the global supply chain.

But there is a tough issue. No country has ever been able to create

sustainable wealth, jobs and prosperity based on consumption only.

You cannot shop your way to wealth and jobs. You have to produce,
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 85 of 163

have factories, have agricultural products and beneficiate your

mining products. Therefore, if Walmart wants to come to South

Africa, it has to partner with us. It also has to procure from South

African companies. We cannot afford an industrial wasteland with

many factories closing because we built a super highway between

South Africa and other Asian countries. There has to be a focus on

South African jobs. That is the priority of this government. I hope

it is the priority of this august House. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, is there any process in

place to monitor fluctuations of investment and the migration of

skilled workers as a result of this growth path? If so, what methods

and results have been seen so far, and if not, what are the reasons?

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, hon member,

government does look at the flow of investment as well as the stock

of investment in the economy. The information is published regularly

in the quarterly bulletin of the Reserve Bank. Recently there was

quite a bit of publicity around the world investment report of

United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, Unctad, that

looked at investment flows into South Africa. It is important to

contextualise that investment by its nature is lumpy. In other

words, it does not go in a smooth curve. If you have a major

transaction, for example a Standard Bank transaction where a major

foreign bank takes equity in the bank, suddenly your Foreign Direct

Investment, FDI, will rise significantly. If you don’t have the same
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 86 of 163

transaction next year, it will drop suddenly. We do monitor this.

This is a very important part of the work that the National Treasury

and the Reserve Bank do and that Cabinet applies its mind to from

time to time.

On the question of skills, in the New Growth Path we particularly

call for a different regime in encouraging skilled immigration into

South Africa. That has to be complemented with retaining our own

skills base. You can go to Dubai and you will see a marvel of South

African engineering and South African skills that have transformed

the economy. So, part of what we need to do is to ensure, through

active and dynamic economic activity, that we seek to encourage the

New Growth Path and create an opportunity for skilled South Africans

to deploy more of their talents domestically. Thank you.

Mr L S NGONYAMA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if we take the

comments from the Minister of Finance - the teacup comments - he

said the target of five million jobs by 2020 that has been set is

difficult to reach or is unreachable. This means the target is

completely off the table.

He went on to say that a target of only four million will be reached

by 2025. What is your comment on that, Mr Minister?

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, let me start

by correcting the hon Smuts. I would encourage him to read the
24 AUGUST 2011                                       PAGE: 87 of 163

speech by the hon Minister of Finance, who clearly did not say that

the target won’t be reached or that the target should be changed. In

fact, the Minister of Finance indicated that it will be a challenge

to reach the target if we do things the way we have always done.

That goes to the heart of what we seek to do. We have to change the

way in which the state works, the private sector and so on. I think

what the Minister of Finance indicated in the speech is a number of

measures in the New Growth Path that need to be implemented with

urgency and with focus. I hope that addresses the one issue.

I do wish to conclude with the comment that the five million jobs

target was always a stretch target. It is necessary. It is a stretch

target in a society with high levels of unemployment. That requires,

as I indicated in the reply to an earlier question, a national

consensus on how we move forward and some agreements between

government and partners in the wealth-creating machinery of the

economy, business and labour. Thank you very much.

Mrs D R TSOTETSI: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I have

pressed my thing here. I am not sure if it is working well.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is working well. I didn’t call you because we

were already over four follow-up questions. We are now on another

24 AUGUST 2011                                              PAGE: 88 of 163

Mrs D R TSOTETSI: There is a question for Minister Patel.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member. We have called all the speakers

who wanted to ask Mr Patel a question - all four of them.

Mrs D R TSOTETSI: I did press here. That is why I’m saying I’m not

sure if this thing is working.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is working. Your name was here. But it was

not amongst the four that pressed their buttons first. If you want

to speak, you have to press your button first so that you can be

within the first four. That is the Rule of this House.

Particulars regarding requested supplementation of Transnet’s Second

Defined Benefit Fund, and any steps to be taken to pay out increases

                         to pensioners forthwith

133. Adv A de W Alberts (FF Plus) asked the Minister of Finance:

    (1)   Why    has   National   Treasury      not   yet    given   effect   to

          Parliament’s    request   for   his    department     to   supplement

          Transnet’s Second Defined Benefit Fund in the amount of

          R1,9 billion;

    (2)   whether he, in co-operation with Transnet, will be taking

          any steps to pay out increases to pensioners forthwith,
24 AUGUST 2011                                       PAGE: 89 of 163

         because Transnet is unwilling to make the money for the

         payment   of   increases   available   immediately,   but   first

         wants to use the fund’s surplus for disbursements; if not,

         why not; if so, what are the relevant details?         NO2458E

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, the response to the first

part of the question is that when the Portfolio Committee on Public

Enterprises resolved on 2 November 2010 that a cash injection of

R1,964 billion be provided to the Transnet Second Defined Benefit

Fund to cover an ex gratia payment of five months, pension, a base

upliftment of 3,21% and 75% of Consumer Price Index, CPI, and an

annual increase going forward on the 3,21% uplifted base, it was

recognised that a funding solution still needed to be finalised.

The Minister of Finance has met with the Minister of Public

Enterprises and reached agreement that Transnet will be responsible

for providing all of the funding. To effect this decision, it

requires the following process be followed: firstly, the rules need

to be amended and drafted accordingly; secondly, approval of the

rule amendments by the board of trustees together with support from

the actuaries; thirdly, approval of the rule amendments by the board

of directors of Transnet; fourthly, approval of the rule amendments

by the Minister of Public Enterprises, together with the concurrence

of the Minister of Finance; and lastly, rule amendments to be

gazetted, at which time the amended increase policy can be

24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 90 of 163

The response to the second part, as highlighted in the answer above,

is that the additional financing required for the payment to the

pensioners over and above the existing funds surplus is to be

provided by Transnet. Payments can be effected once the pension

funds governance process, as outlined above, has been completed.

Thank you.

Dr S M VAN DYK: Chairperson, the DA welcomes the statement by the

Minister of Finance, although this process has taken longer than it

should have. It is vital that those pensioners who have been

suffering in the absence of appropriate pension increases receive

relief as soon as possible. According to the resolution taken by

Parliament in November last year, Transnet pensioners should be

given a lump sum back pay equal to five months’ pension and annual

increases calculated at 75% of CPI on an increased basic pension

amount. The DA welcomes the statement that the Minister made today.

Thank you.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, we welcome the support and,

secondly, the fact that this matter might have taken longer than one

anticipated is certainly not in our hands, so we regret that.

Dr G W KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, I think the absence of the Freedom

Front Plus in the House is an indication of how important they view

this issue.
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 91 of 163

I will not ask a question but just make the following statement.

This issue is currently not before Parliament or the executive or

National Treasury. Transnet has already reported to the Portfolio

Committee on Public Enterprises that they received a letter from the

Minister of Public Enterprises in April 2011. The Transnet board met

in June 2011 and instructed the management to find a funding

solution based on the report from Parliament.

This is now a matter to be addressed between Transnet and the board

of trustees of the two pension funds. Transnet, as the Minister has

indicated, has already committed itself to cover any deficit. The

administrative and statutory processes now need to be completed as

soon as possible, as a matter of urgency. Thank you.

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you hon member. That was a comment, hon


The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Vacant? [Laughter.] Seats press themselves.

There’s a vacant seat that just pressed the button.

Dr G W KOORNHOF: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I already made my

statement. You already gave me the opportunity, and I just made the

statement to the Minister. Thank you.

  Measures to ensure blacklisting of service providers and company

                 directors who have defrauded the state
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 92 of 163

98.   Dr Z Luyenge (ANC) asked the Minister of Finance:

      Whether the National Treasury has any measures in place to

      ensure that service providers and directors of companies who

      defrauded the state are blacklisted; if not, why not; if so,

      what measures?                                        NO2409E

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the question makes

reference to whether there are measures in place to ensure that

service providers and directors of companies who defraud the state

are blacklisted.

There are basically two provisions under which such activities can

be undertaken by the National Treasury, and I am going to outline

them briefly.

The first is section 28 of the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt

Activities Act of 2004, which prescribes that, when a court convicts

a person of an offence in respect of corrupt activities relating to

contracts, or to the procuring and withdrawal of tenders, the court

may rule that the name of such persons, directors or other persons

who wholly or partially exercise control over the enterprise, be

endorsed on the Register for Tender Defaulters.
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 93 of 163

The National Treasury must determine the period – which may not be

less than five years and not more than 10 years – for which the

particulars of the convicted persons or enterprises must remain on

the Register for Tender Defaulters. During such period, the public

sector may not conduct business with such a person.

The second instance arises from the Preferential Procurement

Regulations, as well as the general conditions of contract. This

empowers an accounting officer or authority to restrict an

enterprise or its directors, trustees, or shareholders, for a period

not exceeding 10 years, if such enterprise did not fulfil the

conditions of contract, or has been engaged in corrupt or fraudulent

practices, in competing for, or in executing, the contract.

In such cases, the accounting officer or authority must follow the

audi alteram partem rule which, in English, means hear the other

side, when informing the person of the intention to restrict him or

her. The person concerned must be afforded an opportunity to provide

reasons why such restrictions should not be imposed.

When an enterprise or person is restricted by an accounting officer

or authority, the National Treasury must be informed accordingly and

the names of the enterprises or persons are endorsed on the database

of restricted suppliers, which is maintained by the National

Treasury. Both the Register of Tender Defaulters and the database of
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 94 of 163

restricted suppliers have been made public and are available on the

National Treasury’s website.

All spheres of government and Schedule 3A, 3C and municipal

entities, are required to verify the status of recommended bidders,

in order to ensure that no recommended bidders that are listed as

companies prohibited from doing business with the public sector, do

so. Adherence to this prescript also forms part of the Auditor-

General’s annual audit. Thank you.

Dr Z LUYENGE: Madam Deputy Speaker, in appreciation of an elaborate

and splendid response by the Minister, I will, on behalf of the ANC,

suggest that the hon Minister apply certain methods in order to

ensure that the applicability of this notion is actually visible at

the lower levels of governance. Thank you very much for the


The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, let me thank the hon

Luyenge for his suggestion; we will discuss with him and others what

ideas they have for higher visibility.

One of the challenges, in the first instance, with regard to the

tender defaulters, is that it is a court of law that must make the

decision, and where that decision is not explicitly made in the

judgment, if you like, that is passed by a court of law, no name can
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 95 of 163

be put on any register. That is one of the difficulties in having a

very short list of names in respect of tender defaulters. Thank you.

Dr D T GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, the Tender Default Register

was empty for a long time and it has only recently featured the

names of some of those who have defrauded the state.

As you mentioned, it is only after the court orders it necessary,

that a name is placed on the register. Are you considering an

amendment to the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Act,

to require automatic entry to the register in the event of a tender

default? If so, please provide relevant details. If not, why not?

Thank you.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: We will certainly have a look, hon Deputy

Speaker, at the hon George’s suggestion. I think the one reason we

would be cautious about that, is that you cannot erroneously put

somebody’s name onto a register and then carry the liability that

goes with wrongful decisions. That is why we place the trust in a

court of law to make that decision. We will look at other ways of

ensuring that defaulters do not benefit from any further business

with the state.

Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, may I perhaps ask the

Minister whether he can tell us, off the cuff, how many names have

been placed on the register?
24 AUGUST 2011                                           PAGE: 96 of 163

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, off the piece of paper

rather than the cuff, it would appear that there are two names on

the list of tender defaulters that I have in front of me, and a list

of almost 3 pages – that I assume amounts to probably 50 to 60 names

– in respect of the restricted suppliers.

   Particulars regarding policy in terms of which a moratorium on

               foreign land ownership has been called for

161. Ms L D Mazibuko (DA) asked the Minister of Rural Development

    and Land Reform:

    (1)   With reference to his reply to question 1354 on 1 August

          2011 in which he states that no official data exists on

          the percentage of land owned by foreigners and that less

          than   1%   of   state-owned   land     is   currently   leased      to

          foreigners, in terms of which policy has his department

          called for a moratorium on foreign land ownership;

    (2)   whether his department has undertaken a feasibility study

          to   determine   the   viability   of   placing   a   moratorium     on

          foreign land ownership before the policy was proposed; if

          not, why not; if so, what are the relevant detail          NO2489E


Speaker, the response to the first part of the question asked by the
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 97 of 163

hon Mazibuko is that the department has not called for a moratorium

on foreign land ownership. Therefore, the second one falls away.

Thank you.

Ms L D MAZIBUKO: Madam Deputy Speaker, Minister Nkwinti, we know

that the last time that the ANC government had plans to limit

foreign ownership of land, one of your predecessors, the Minister of

Land Affairs, Thoko Didiza, commissioned a study which found that

only 5% of land was foreign-owned in 2004. As a consequence of these

results, she abandoned plans to limit foreign ownership.

Given your recent remarks, in June this year, in which you said that

government would, nevertheless, be pursuing a policy of “precarious

tenure” to restrict land ownership by foreign nationals, and given

your Deputy Minister’s remark that government wishes to “guard

against the danger that prime land in South Africa gets snapped up

by foreigners as this would push up prices”, have you instituted or

do you plan to institute a research study to establish how much land

is foreign-owned, as was done by your predecessor, and to assess the

risks and the benefits to the rural economy of such a policy

proposal? If not, why not; and, if so, what are the relevant



the hon member is correct. None of my predecessors implemented the

recommendations of the panel. So, part of what we are doing now is
24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 98 of 163

actually looking at that before we can do any further study. We have

looked at that report and we are convinced that we need to implement

some of the recommendations of that report. Secondly, you could not

implement a tenure reform system and leave them out because they are

foreigners and they bring in foreign investment. They have to fall

into the same context within which we will be operating and

implementing land reform. Thank you.

Mrs N T NOVEMBER: Deputy Speaker, thank you Minister for your

response. Are there other measures in place to deal with this matter

and what are the implications for the broader pro-poor policy

development? If this is left unattended, are there any security

implications for the country? Do developed countries open their land

to ownership by foreigners? Thank you.


the answer is no. Every country has measures to protect its national

assets, including land - particularly land. So, we should not be an

exception to that.

Secondly, we find it interesting that actually people who are non-

South African citizens but are residents here have no objection to

this because in their own countries this is happening. I think that

they have been surprised that in this country we do not yet have

this kind of measure to protect our own assets. Thank you.
24 AUGUST 2011                                     PAGE: 99 of 163

Mrs A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, thank you Minister for the information.

Minister, it does not help to beat about the bush here. The

important question for us all to know, and especially for South

Africans and possible investors, is: When are we going to get this

much-talked-about Green Paper that must be released? In the leaked

version, we saw this proposal of precarious tenure and other issues

that need to be dealt with. Some of these have already been

implemented, like the plough system. Minister, I just want to know

if you can tell us when we can expect this Green Paper. We have been

waiting patiently since last year.


today by Cabinet for public comment. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, as there is no official

data in existence, what unofficial data are you referring to in your

references to policy-making in this regard? Two of the nation’s

leading real estate agents are quoted as saying that, over the past

12 months, less than 5% of all property sales concluded by both of

them have gone to non-national buyers, making reasons for targeting

foreign land ownership obscure or less obvious. Can you elaborate on



Speaker, the hon Dudley is quite correct; that is exactly the point.

The point that she is making when she says official data does not
24 AUGUST 2011                                             PAGE: 100 of 163

exist and, therefore, formulating policy becomes a problem, is

exactly the challenge we are faced with in the department. That is

why we have put together a national reference group which includes

farmers and intellectuals - that’s commercial and emerging farmers -

and all of them to sit with us and discuss exactly that point

because we have got various databases which are different in

content. So, we want to have one database for the country so that we

can formulate policy properly. That is the problem.

      Particulars regarding applications for special pensions

127. Mr D D van Rooyen (ANC) asked the Minister of Finance:

    (a)    How   many    applications     for    special     pensions   has       his

    department received since 1 April 2011, (b) how many had been

    processed as at the latest specified date for which information

    is    available     and   (c)(i)    what    challenges     has   his    office

    encountered in this regard and (ii) in which areas?                 NO2451E

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, submissions of special

pensions applications closed on 31 December 2010. Therefore, no

applications from people applying in their own right were received

since 1 April 2011.

However, a total of 1 978 applications were received after the

closing date of 31 December 2010 and were declared as late
24 AUGUST 2011                                      PAGE: 101 of 163

applications. A total of 9 924 applications were received from the

under-35 group since January 2009, ending 31 December 2010.

The number of applications processed as at the end of July 2011 is

7 185. The remaining number of 2 739 applications are still at a

political verification and research level. Most of the applications

received by December 2010 were incomplete, as applicants were only

submitting these forms to meet the closing date deadline.

A total of 5 667 applications were received in December 2010. Only

3 440 of these applicants were from Africans that were under the age

of 30 or over the age of 35, and do not qualify now. These

applications came from all provinces. Thank you.

Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, in the spirit and the letter

of the clarion call by uMkhonto weSizwe veterans, I would really

like to commend the Minister and the Ministry for the work that they

have done hitherto.

Minister, it has been brought to our attention that some of the

applications have been declared dormant mainly because applicants

can’t be traced. Now, I was just wondering whether, instead of

relying on directly engaging applicants, you won’t consider using

political organisations of the affected applicants to trace them so

that this process can be completed appropriately.
24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 102 of 163

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon van Rooyen, we

are certainly in touch, as far as I am aware, with the various

political organisations. However, if there is any specific

recommendation that will help us to expedite these matters, please

feel free to guide us. Thank you very much.

Dr D T GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, the aim of the special

pension is to compensate those who were unable to accumulate pension

benefits, given their participation in the struggle for democracy in

South Africa.

Is there an ongoing process to evaluate the financial means of a

special pension recipient to ensure that those who no longer acquire

assistance no longer receive the pension? If so, please provide the

relevant details; if not, why not? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, this process is still

pretty much incomplete. However, I think that the idea of an ongoing

assessment is a good one. It will assist us in ensuring that funds

from this fund are used in an appropriate way. I will enquire

whether there are any further details that we could supply to hon

George and then let him have them. Thank you.

  Particulars regarding plan to rectify current backlog of company

24 AUGUST 2011                                    PAGE: 103 of 163

97.   Ms S P Lebenya-Ntanzi (IFP) asked the Minister of Trade and


      (1)   Whether he and his department have a strategic plan in

            place in order to rectify the current backlog of company

            registrations at the Companies and Intellectual Property

            Commission (CIPC); if not, why not; if so, what are the

            relevant details;

      (2)   what (a)are the details of the current size of the backlog

            and (b) is the expected time required to (i) deal with and

            (ii) reduce the backlog?                    NO2408E

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, the process of

registering companies to require limited liability status is the

first step towards participating in economic activity, and it is

therefore imperative that it takes place smoothly and efficiently.

The Companies and Intellectual Property Commission is an autonomous

commission responsible for its own administration, but reporting to

the Minister of Trade and Industry. I have interacted on a number of

occasions with them about some of the challenges and problems that

they are facing. Earlier this week, I went on a walkabout to engage

with staff and to see some of the issues and the progress they were

24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 104 of 163

The main issue is that, since the formation of the commission and

entry into force of the new Companies Act, there has been a

significant increase in company registrations under way. This took

place against the background of some backlogs arising from the old

Companies and Intellectual Property Registration Office. The

question does provide a table showing the status of implementation

of various transactions during the course of August up until 18


I think that this shows some significant progress in some areas. For

example, name registration is a very important part of the process.

Under the new Companies Act, it is not necessary to register a name,

but many companies do. The number of transactions outstanding at the

beginning of August was 31 108; 10 004 applications were received up

until 18 August and 37 220 applications were processed, leaving only

3 892 on 18 August.

Similar progress was reported with respect to amendments to

companies, where the number of the backlog went down from 19 000 to

only 450. The challenges still remain in company registrations and

also with co-operative registrations. What is happening is that the

leadership of the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission is

now deploying additional resources to try to unblock those

particular blockages.
24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 105 of 163

The commission has been mandated to prepare a full update and to

table this at a meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and

Industry on 13 September. They are well aware that we, together with

Parliament, are expecting that there will be further significant

progress by that time. Thank you very much.

Ms S P LEBENYA-NTANZI: Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you hon Minister

for a response to my question. My follow-up question will be: Do you

think that the decentralisation of the commission into provincial

offices might assist with the current high volume backlog of company

registrations; and has your department explored the merits or

otherwise of this option? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think that at this point, the

basic challenge is to get some of the processes at head office going

to the point where we can start to say backlogs are cleared and that

we are now beginning to move further forward. The next phase, as I

see it, is that we are going to start to establish some benchmarks

in terms of the amount of time it takes to register companies and

things like that.

We will certainly explore the way in which decentralisation may

assist, but one of the important points is that, under the new

Companies Act, it is quite possible to register electronically.

Therefore, it is not as necessary to have as many decentralised

offices as it might have been under the older systems. Thank you.
24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 106 of 163

Mr T D HARRIS: Deputy Speaker, it is difficult to overstate just how

bad the situation was at the commission when the committee went

there. They were registering about 2 400 registrations in the first

two months. With the Companies and Intellectual Property

Registration Office, Cipro, we were registering around 6 000.

Nevertheless, we take the Minister’s words as encouragement.

Minister, one of the main problems at the commission is the fact

that of the 1 600 calls that the call centre receives every week,

about 1 100 of them go unanswered. We were told that this is because

they have a shortage of 30 call centre seats in their call centre,

and we were told that they did not have space at the DTI campus to

put in 30 more seats.

My question is: Will you as Minister approve additional space on the

campus for that call centre, or alternatively allow the commission

to contract out some call centre capacity, perhaps down here to some

of our call centres in the Western Cape? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I think the first part of

this is that in all these areas of blockage, including the call

centre, they have been employing more people. The question of space

in the longer term needs to be resolved by CIPC moving off campus.

They are aware that that is what we are expecting of them.
24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 107 of 163

In the medium term they need to find new premises off campus, but in

the meantime, we are doing what we can to try to accommodate them in

all the various areas. We do see this as a priority piece of work.

Mr N E GCWABAZA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the Companies and

Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC, is only three and half

months old. Therefore, it was expected that it would experience

teething problems, given the challenges it inherited from Cipro.

However, Minister, now that the Valour-IT problem has been resolved,

could you explain how this is going to assist CIPC to improve the

processing of registering new companies as well as addressing the

backlog speedily and effectively?

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think that regarding the point

about moving speedily to the new commission and putting in place a

new leadership and a new commission, the data has actually been

vindicated by the statistics that have just been given. If we had

set a longer period and hoped that we were going to resolve all the

problems under the old Cipro, we would have been in more serious

trouble than we are in now.

So I believe that the leadership in CIPC, the commission of the

Deputy Commissioner and other staff members are now working much

more effectively than Cipro ever worked. They have identified a

number of the problems and so on. Regarding the point you make about
24 AUGUST 2011                                   PAGE: 108 of 163

the Valour-IT, well, I think one of the things that they are looking

at is whether the type of software, the Enterprise Content

Management System, is in fact what they need.

The issue of Valour-IT means that now there is no legal or other

barrier to them acquiring whatever software they need to acquire.

They can go ahead and acquire whatever software they need to.

However, what they are looking at is whether the choices that were

made under the old Cipro and under that contract are the correct

ones, or whether there are other alternatives. They are seriously

looking at other alternatives in a technical sense. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the time allocated for Questions

has expired. I only had two speakers here. Outstanding replies

received will be printed in Hansard.


The House adjourned at 17:59.



                        FRIDAY, 19 AUGUST 2011

24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 109 of 163

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1.   Calling of Joint Sitting


     The Speaker of the National Assembly, Mr M V Sisulu, and the Acting Chairperson of the

     National Council of Provinces, Ms T C Memela, in terms of Joint Rule 7(2), have called a joint

     sitting of the Houses of Parliament for Tuesday, 23 August 2011 at 14:00 to conduct a debate on

     National Women’s Day.

     M V SISULU, MP                        T C MEMELA, MP

     SPEAKER OF THE                        ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1.   The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development
24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 110 of 163

     (a) Government Notice No R. 580 published in Government Gazette No 34458 dated 15 July

           2011: Amendment of Regulations relating to the Attorneys Fidelity Fund in terms of the

           Attorneys Act, 1979 (Act No 53 of 1979).

2.   The Minister of Science and Technology

     (a)   Report of the Research and Development Tax Incentive Programme for 2009-2010.

                                   MONDAY, 22 AUGUST 2011


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1.   Assent by President in respect of Bills

     (1)    State Liability Amendment Bill [B 2B – 2011] – Act No 14 of 2011 (assented to and

            signed by President on 21 August 2011).


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
24 AUGUST 2011                                                           PAGE: 111 of 163

1.    The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development

       (a)    Report dated 15 August 2011 on the suspension from office of Magistrate D Jacobs, a

              magistrate in Clocolan, tabled in terms of section 13(4)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993

              (Act No 90 of 1993).

2.    The Minister of Police

       (a)    Training Courses on Sexual Offences and Related Matters Developed in terms of

              section 66, and tabled in terms of section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual

              Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007).


National Assembly




The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, having undertaken an oversight visit to

the University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) and Institute for the National Development of

Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments (Indlela) on 29 June – 01 July 2011 reports

as follows:
24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 112 of 163

1. Introduction

The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training undertook an oversight visit to the

University Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) as part of its ongoing oversight visits to institutions of higher

learning. The purpose of the oversight visit was primarily to interact with the above mentioned

institution on critical issues such as admissions policy, enrolment planning, merger processes,

transformation plan, student access and success, challenges of student accommodation in residences as

well as those experienced by student leadership at higher education institutions. The Committee

further visited the Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and

Labour Assessment (Indlela) to engage on the outcomes of the OMA forensic audit report as well as

visiting the assessment centres.

The Committee interacted with the various structures of the University of Limpopo (Medunsa

Campus) which included, University Management, Labour Unions, Council and Student

Representative Council (SRC).

2. Background

The oversight visit formed part of the Committee’s plan to visit the 23 public higher education

institutions with the aim of revisiting the notion of transformation and social cohesion holistically,

focusing on issues of student access and success, equity and equality, examining the role of higher

education in a developmental state, disbursement of financial assistance in higher education

institutions, discussing the need for a more systematic and structured student support systems,

feasibility of a more effective skills development strategy and other relevant matters in the higher

education and training spectrum.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                             PAGE: 113 of 163

The years 2003 and 2005 saw the restructuring of the higher education landscape resulting in 23 public

higher education institutions comprising of eleven traditional universities, six comprehensive

universities and six universities of technologies involved in mergers. According to the National Plan

for Higher Education, the reconfiguration of the public higher education institutions was undertaken in

order to result in rationalisation of programmes, to encourage collaboration between institutions, to

enhance responsiveness, to build capacity and to refocus institutions with new institutional identities.

The University of Limpopo is the result of a merger between the former Medical University of

Southern Africa and the University of the North, which merger occurred on 01 January 2005.

The Medical University of Southern Africa (MEDUNSA) was established in 1976 to provide tertiary

education and training facilities to the educationally disadvantaged in the fields of Medicine, Allied

Health and Nursing Sciences, and Dentistry intended to meet the health needs of the country. The

Campus is situated to the north-west of Pretoria. Its grounds extend over some 350 hectares adjoining

the Ga-Rankuwa Township and are easily accessible by roads and rail.

3. Composition of the Delegation

3.1 The Parliamentary delegation

The multi-party delegation from the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training

comprised of Adv I Malale: Chairperson (ANC), Ms N Gina (ANC), Mr S Makhubele (ANC), Mr C

Moni (ANC), Ms W Nelson (ANC), Mr S Radebe (ANC), Dr J Kloppers-Lourens (DA), Mr A

Mpontshane (IFP) and Mr J Dikobo (AZAPO).
24 AUGUST 2011                                                         PAGE: 114 of 163

Support staff: Mr A Kabingesi (Committee Secretary), Ms M Modiba (Researcher) and Mr K Lobi

(Committee Assistant).

3.2 The University of Limpopo representation Management: Prof M Mokgalong: Vice-Chancellor,

Dr M Ngoepe: Director of Quality Assurance, Dr S Seroka: Dean of Students Affairs, Dr M

Motswaledi: Representative of Heads of Departments, Prof H Siweya: Executive Dean, Prof N

Taukobong: Head of Department of Physiotherapy, Prof J Mpahlele: Head of Department of

Vivological Pathology, Prof H Joubert: Director of School of Pathology, Prof M Sibara: Deputy Vice-

Chancellor of Academic Research, Mr S Hlabati: Deputy Director of Human Resource, Mr J Moloto:

Chief Human Resource Officer, Mr J Nkuna: Director of Finance, Mr R Olander: Chief Financial

Officer, Prof R Naidoo: University Registrar, Mr D Mohuba: Executive Director of Marketing and

Communication, Mr H Croucamp: Deputy Registrar, Mr E Holland: Executive Dean Faculty of Health

Sciences, Mr W Tladi: Acting Executive Dean and Dr P Mulder: Director of Institutional Planning.

Council: Mr L Boshielo: Deputy Chairperson, Mr Steve Ratlou: Member, Dr H Moloto: Member, Mr

G Dunnington: Member, and Mr P Nefolovhodwe: Member.

Union: Mr T Sambo: Chairperson of Nehawu, Mr T Mokwape: Nehawu Shop Steward, Ms L Lefosa:

Deputy Chairperson of Nehawu, Ms M Motshekga: Admin Officer of Nehawu, Mr J Mahladla:

Branch Treasurer of Nehawu, Prof E Green: Chairperson of SAPTU, Mr M Nkobeni: Secretary of

SAPTU, Mr G Slander: Member of SAPTU and Mr M Khosie: Deputy Chairperson of SAPTU.

Student Representative Council: Mr T Ntsie: President, Mr S Tshilidzi: Deputy Secretary, Mr D

Netshilonga: Deputy President and Mr L Maleamalla: Member.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                           PAGE: 115 of 163

3.3 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessments (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training representation

Ms L Mbombo: Deputy Director-General of Corporate Services, Mr F Patel: Deputy Director-General

of Planning, Mr C Mtshisa: Chief Director, Mr P Du Toit: Director Internal Audit, Mr N Meiring:

Deputy Director, Mr F Prinsloo: Technical Advisor, Mr B Masuku: Chief Director and Mr O

Shelembe: Chief Director.

4. Summary of Presentations

4.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus)

Dr P Mulder: Director of Institutional Planning led the presentation. The presentation focused on the

following key points namely; admission policy and requirements, enrolment plan, student access,

staffing, transformation, financial consideration and challenges of accommodation and students.

a) Admission Policy and Requirements

      The admission policy and general admission requirements were aligned to the university

       statutes, university rules and to the applicable Higher Education Legislation and Policy


      Student Access and Admissions policy entailed access management, in respect of the

       admission, selection and placement of students. The policy was crucial in determining an

       institution’s ‘size’ (the number of students it enrols), its student composition (the kinds of

       students it targets and enrols) and its ‘shape’ (the types of programmes into which students are

       placed). All UL programmes leading to certificate, diploma and degree awarded within the

       National Qualification Framework.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                           PAGE: 116 of 163

      The National Senior Certificate (NSC) with Bachelor endorsement was used as a minimum

       requirement for students to be admitted in the university. The university had a placement test

       whereby all prospective students were required to undergo it before they would be allowed to

       register. The results of the test assisted the university with the placement of students into

       relevant programmes. The National Benchmark Test (NBT) was also used to assess student

       profile as well placing students into Extended Degree Programmes (EDP’s).

b) Enrolment Plan

      Enrolment planning included the university’s projections of enrolments targets for 2011 to

       2013. The enrolment planning exercise was co-ordinated by the university’s institutional

       planning and quality assurance offices.

      Enrolment targets were determined and informed by the following namely; university vision

       and mission, strategic focus areas, capacity and local and national development priority areas.

      The current student enrolment equity profile between males and females was around 49%

       males and 51% females. It was anticipated that this student equity profile would remain steady.

       The institution was however, intending to increase the number of female students at

       postgraduate studies level as well as in scarce skills areas that were predominantly dominated

       by males.

      For the 2011 academic year, the university had 9613 students in Science, Engineering and

       Technology, 3589 students in Business / Management, 1845 students in Education and 5311

       students in Humanities. The total number of students at the university for the current academic

       year was 20358.

c) Staffing
24 AUGUST 2011                                                           PAGE: 117 of 163

      The university had developed a viable strategy for staff recruitment and retention particularly

       in the scarce skills programmes. The university intended to achieve this through proper

       implementation flexible resources policies and procedures as well as performance incentive.

      The total number of the university’s academic staff was 698 with 368 staff at Medunsa Campus

       and 335 staff at Turfloop Campus. The management group was headed by the Vice-Chancellor,

       followed by two Deputy Vice-Chancellors and Registrar, 9 Executive Directors and Dean and

       37 Directors and Senior Managers.

d) Transformation

      The university’s employment equity plan was linked to the Employment Equity Act and other

       relevant labour legislations. The university was open to all those who desired and qualified to

       pursue their studies in higher education irrespective of race, gender, age, creed, class or


e) Financial Considerations

      The Medunsa Campus was a single faculty with strong focus on medical training. From the pre

       1994 era, Medunsa was not financially viable primarily due to expensive nature of Health

       Science programme training. Unlike other universities which had various academic

       programmes, Medunsa was funded on Health Science programmes only.

      In 2004, Medunsa had a net loss of R42 million since the A-factor funding was discontinued.

       Financial statements for 2004 resulted in a disclaimer for number of reasons.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 118 of 163

      The official year of merger between Medunsa and the University of the North was

       implemented in 2005 to form what was now University of Limpopo. The UL had an annual

       loss between R50 million and R88 million from 2005 till 2009.

      The UL had a total income of R936 million for the current academic year. The biggest

       expenditure of the university was personnel costs R510 million. The net deficit of the UL was

       for 2009 was R50 million.

f) Challenges

      Student accommodation was a major challenge of the university since it was classified as a

       previously disadvantaged institution. The physical location of the university was also a major

       disadvantage since it was located away from residential areas.

      The Ministerial Task Team on Student Accommodation investigated the accommodation of the

       UL and the following findings emerged; dilapidated residences due to historical neglect, poor

       infrastructure, insufficient funding for residences and insufficient accommodation for the

       student intake.

      In terms of residential capacity, the Turfloop Campus had 16 200 students resulting in 40%

       saturation, Medunsa Campus 4 158 students resulting in 76% saturation, UL 20 358 students

       resulting in 48% saturation.

      Medunsa had three privately owned off campus residences that accommodated 564 students.

       The main challenge with off campus accommodation was high travelling costs that the

       university paid to service providers. The recreational facilities in the university were

       inadequate. The safety and security around the campus was concern especially for students in

24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 119 of 163

g) South African Parastatal and Tertiary Institution Union (SAPTU)

Prof E Green: Chairperson of SAPTU Medunsa Branch led the presentation which highlighted the

following key issues:

      The Medunsa Campus had always been very poorly represented in the Council of the

       University of Limpopo. For a number of years, Medunsa only had two Council representatives

       based on the Medunsa Campus. After the recent announcement of the imminent demerger of

       Medunsa, the composition of the new Council from June 2011 included only one member, with

       even the acting DVC being excluded.

      Similarly the composition of executive management is mainly composed of persons based on

       the Turfloop Campus. This is confirmed in the composition of the Executive Management

       Committee in which the Medunsa Campus apparently had only two representatives.

      After six of submissions to harmonize the salary packages on the two Campuses, this still has

       not happened even after the implementation of the new remuneration policy in May 2010.

       There were still significant differences in the packages paid to staff on two Campuses in the

       same posts, with the same qualifications and applicable experience.

      While the movement of the approximately 20% of the staff up to minimum of the tertiary

       scales in September 2010 was welcomed, many did not benefit from this as their posts were

       unilaterally downgraded without job evaluation having taken place. Others including HOD’s

       and senior academics had only now been lifted to the minimum, which meant that virtually all

       other tertiary institutions paid better than UL.

      The present implementation of “match and place” to non-academic posts, with the unilateral

       selective downgrading of posts had caused major dissatisfaction among affected staff. The
24 AUGUST 2011                                                            PAGE: 120 of 163

       future structure of technical posts in academic departments remained a source of uncertainty

       for staff.

      The difference of retirement age between the two Campuses was retained for five and a half

       years post-merger (staff appointed at Medunsa Campus were to retire at 60, while those at

       Turfloop were appointed to retire at 65). The agreement on the age of retirement for staff had

       been not reached with management.

      Application of budgets for the Medunsa Campus was an area of major concern. The

       departmental budgets were also only finally allocated late each year, which made running

       academic departments very difficult.

h) National Education Health & Allied Workers Union (Nehawu)

Mr T Sambo: Chairperson of Nehawu Medunsa Campus Branch led the presentation which

highlighted the following key issues:

      In terms of the transformation plan in the wake of the new Health Science Institution, the

       institutions vision and mission should address the needs of the country’s demand for health

       professionals, seek to appoint and mentor young black professionals in the health science

       sector, and assist government in the realization of the intended health insurance.

      The university did not fully comply with statutory obligations such as; employee wellness,

       employment equity and occupational health and safety.

      The current university governance was subjecting Medunsa to paternalism. The selling of the

       university’s land to a private company for R4 million without proper consultation with the

       relevant stakeholders remained a major concern.
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      Nehawu proposed that the de-merger date be gazetted in the next seating of Cabinet before the

       end of year (2011) and the Department should move with speed to conclude the de-merger


i) Student Representative Council (SRC)

Mr T Ntsie: President of the SRC led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues:

Academic Programming

      The throughput rate of the university was very low due to lack of academic support staff.

      The university experienced lot of exclusions / drop-outs at the end of each academic since

       students did not cope with their academic work.

      There was a decline in the graduation rate since the merger. Prior the merger the university

       used to produce 250 medical graduates per academic year, post merger the graduation rate was

       115 medical students a year.

      There was shortage of tutors and skilled lecturers in the university.


      The living conditions in the Campus residences were not conducive to learning.

      Safety and security of students in the residences remained a challenge.


      The university lacked adequate recreational facilities for students.

      The sport complex was used as an exam centre during exam period and most sport activities

       were suspended.
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j) Council

Mr L Boshielo: Deputy Chairperson of the Council led the presentation that highlighted the following

key issues:

      The Council of the university was responsible for governance of the institution as well

       providing strategic leadership to the management of the university.

      Prior the merger of the two institutions in 2004, Medunsa had a R42 million deficit in its

       financial status and was heading for bankruptcy. The expensive nature of health science

       programmes led to the decline in the financial sustainability of the university. The funding

       formula also had a huge impact in the financial sustainability of the university since it was

       classified as previously disadvantaged university. The number of students was very low and

       the university did not collect sufficient revenue for its operational activities.

      The merger of the two institutions was implemented in 2005 to form what is known currently

       as the University of Limpopo. The merger process brought many challenges in the newly

       formed institution. The biggest challenge with the merger was that the assets register of the two

       institutions was problematic. Some of the assets of the two institutions were not accounted for.

      The statute for demerger of the two institutions was announced in August 2010 by the Ministry

       of Higher Education and Training. The Council, university management and other university

       structures were not consulted regarding the demerger process. The demerger of the two

       institutions was not influenced by impact studies, rather it was political. The Minister had

       never visited the university nor had any meeting with the Council on the process of demerger.

       The Council had requested a guideline from the Minister for the demerger process and never

       received it.
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      The Council supported the announcement of the Minister for the demerger of the two

       institutions. The Council would develop a roadmap that would guide the demerger process and

       ensure stability during the process. A numbers of workshops would be conducted to consult

       various structures of the university to ensure smooth process of demerger. The asset register of

       the two institutions were completed and the university received an unqualified audit in 2009/10

       financial year with a net surplus of R13 million.

      The demerger process would require a lot of funding from the Department and the failure to

       allocate sufficient resources to the demerger process might cost the institution and the country

       for the next ten years.

k) Feedback to Management

The Committee having interacted with the Labour Unions, Student Representative Council and

Council gave the following feedback to management:

      The Committee wanted to hear perspectives from the unions and SRC leadership from the

       Trufloop Campuse. However, they were not invited.

      The labour unions raised concern regarding disparities with the retirement age of workers in

       the two institutions. They further noted that the university was not compliant to the employee

       wellness policies.

      The SRC noted that some students could not access their results due to outstanding fees owed

       to the university.

      The SRC raised concern with the decline in the graduation rate, inadequate internet service and

       shortage of tutors.
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         The unions raised concern with the late allocation of operational budget and insufficient

          representivity of the Medunsa staff in executive management

         There were major concerns from both the unions and SRC with regard to the demerger process.

4.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training

a) Indlela Overview

Mr C Mtshisa: Chief Director of Indlela led the presentation which highlighted the following key


         Indlela was a directorate of the Department of Higher Education and Training responsible for

          provision of trade assessment services, provision of assessment Practitioner training and

          development focused on artisan development.

         Trade testing was conducted in five engineering fields (Automotive, Mechanical, Electrical,

          Physical Planning and Construction and Services & Technology).

         The total Indlela staff compliment was 207 and the area size was 18 hectares, 20 houses and 46


         Indlela was in the process of finalizing the establishment the National Artisan Moderation

          Body (NAMB) and a technical advisor had been appointed for the operationalisation of the


         The NAMB was established within the Department with statutory functions as described in the

          Skills Development Act, Chapter 6A, and Section 26A. The NAMB established stakeholder

          forums and tasks teams to enhance and coordinate training delivery of artisans nationally
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          across all sectors. The Artisan Development Technical Task Team, SETA Forum Development

          Sub committee, Artisan Alignment Task Team, Public FET College Artisan Development

          Technical Task Team and State Owned Enterprises Artisan Development Task Team were the

          structures established by the NAMB.

b) Forensic Audit

Mr P Du Toit: Director of internal audit led the presentation which highlighted the following key


         Factors that influenced forensic investigation of Indlela included; concerns regarding

          operations and management of Indlela, loss of fixed assets, misappropriation of funds and other

          fraudulent activities within the institution.

         OMA Chartered Accountants was appointed to conduct the investigation. The scope of the

          investigation included; assessments, fixed assets, housing, hostel kitchen, transport, overtime

          and leave, supply chain management and social club funds. The period cover was limited to the

          2008.09 and 2009/10 financial years.

         The forensic investigation was completed during December 2010 and the various reports and

          supporting documentation were handed to the Department.

         The key findings of the investigation involved the following; no records had been maintained,

          nor any financial control exercised over the revenue and expenditure of the golf course,

          fraudulent cheques and cash withdrawals from the social club bank account, inadequate

          management of the procurement and supply chain management policy, fraudulent bookings of

          trade tests, inaccurate records of fixed assets, and excessive overtime taken by staff.
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      Actions taken included; a Chief Director was appointed to head the operations at Indlela,

       various policies and procedures were reviewed, the golf course and social clubs were closed,

       22 officials have been charged, the report was handed over to the commercial crime unit of the

       SAPS for further investigation to determine civil charges.

c) Disciplinary Charges on Indlela Officials

Ms L Mbobo: Deputy Director-General of Corporate Services led the presentation which highlighted

the following key issues:

      The OMA Forensic Auditors presented a report to the Department’s senior management in

       April 2011. The report identified 30 officials alleged to have been involved in financial

       misconduct and other financial irregularities.

      The Department secured services of four officials from other Departments to assist with the

       prosecuting process. The aim was to secure clear evidence in order to draw charges.

      The Department had so far prepared charges for six officials out of the 30 implicated by the

       report. The process was continuing in respect to the remaining ones.

      The presiding officers would be appointed by 04 July 2011 and notice of hearings would be

       issued on 04 July 2011. The hearings would commence as from 11 July 2011 and the process is

       estimated to be completed by September 2011.

5. Committee Observations and Engagements

5.1 University Management
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     It emerged that an announcement was made by the Minister of Higher Education and Training

      to de-merger Medunsa from the University of Limpopo after five years since the merger took

      place. The UL was informed by the Minister to begin a process of de-merger a decision that

      was received differently by the structures of the university.

     It was noted with concern that financial sustainability of the Medunsa Campus remained a

      challenge due to the expensive nature of Health Science programme training.

     It emerged from the presentation that there was a decline in the graduation rate at postgraduate

      level and the university was requested to explain factors that contributed to this decline.

     It was discovered that the university had an Extended Degree Programme for students that

      passed Matric with no exemption. The Committee wanted to know whether the National

      Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) funded this programme.

     The university was requested explain whether there were any students rejected due to financial


     It emerged that many medical postgraduates students preferred to write fellowship exams over

      university exams.

     The university was requested to explain whether there were any unaccredited programmes

      offered to students.

     It emerged that the Deputy Vice-Chancellor of the Medunsa Campus was suspended after the

      riots in the university at the beginning of the year.

     The Committee was extremely concerned with the number of disabled staff personnel

      employed by the university as they were not in line with the labour policies.

     It emerged that the current funding formula did not support the vision of the university in its

      growth strategy.

     The Committee wanted to know whether there were any health science students sponsored by

      the Health and Welfare SETA in the university.
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      The university was requested to explain its social awareness programme with the neighbouring

       secondary schools.

5.2 Unions

      The unions were requested to explain their challenges with regard to the university’s

       employment equity policy.

      The Committee wanted to know whether the unions had constant interactions with


      The unions were requested to explain whether there was evidence that management of the

       university sold a piece of land to a privately owned company (Walala Wasala) for R4 million

       without consultation.

      The Committee was extremely concerned that unions in Medunsa Campus were separated with

       the unions in the Turfloop Campus.

      It emerged that the SAPTU and Nehawu were not in agreement with the process of de-merger

       of the university.

      The unions were requested to explain examples of paternalism as they alleged in the


      The Committee was concerned with the fact that the unions were too complacent with

       management of the university and did not use the power of collective bargaining effectively.

5.3 Student Representative Council (SRC)

      The SRC was requested to explain the impact of financial exclusions in the university and its

       relationship with management.
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      The Committee wanted to know whether there was a central SRC that included student

       representivity from both Campuses.

      The SRC was requested to explain the impact of shortage of academic staff on student


      The Committee encouraged the SRC leadership to inform students regarding the importance of

       hard work.

5.4 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training

      The Committee requested the Department and Indlela to finalise the process for implementing

       the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations (QCTO) and National Artisan Moderation

       Body (NAMB) urgently.

      The Committee was concerned with SETA targets on artisans training and requested the

       Department to address this challenge with the implementation of NAMB.

      Indlela was requested to explain the role that would be played by the various task teams / sub-

       committees on artisan training and development.

      Indlela was requested to work in collaboration with the 14 SETAs that were responsible for

       artisan training and development to increase the number of artisans produce annually.

      The Committee wanted to know whether there was a database for all the artisans and whether

       they were placed in employment.

      The Committee was extremely concerned that the function of quality assurance of learnerships

       was still in SETAs.

      The Department was requested to provide a timeframe for the implementation of the QCTO

       and NAMB.
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      The Committee was extremely concerned with the fact that Indlela did not comply with the

       request of the Committee to send its forensic report.

      Indlela was requested to briefly explain the role of NAMB as a moderator body within Indlela.

      Indlela was requested to explain as to whether people that failed trade test were assisted with

       other means to get certified.

      The Department was requested to open civil cases to the Police against those involved in

       corruption and obtain case numbers so that these cases may be transferred to the Hawks.

      Indlela was requested to explain whether it had risk management systems in place to avoid

       further corruption.

6. Responses

6.1 University Management

      The reasons cited for the demerger of the UL were that Medunsa in its current size and

       structure was not sustainable. Medunsa needed to grow programme based and focus strictly on

       health science programmes. There was a need for Medunsa to increase enrolments and its

       current capacity did not allow further student intake. Government would invest in the

       expansion of Medunsa so that it can increase it capacity to deliver more health science


      The Committee was informed that the decline in the Masters degree was contributed by the fact

       that many medical postgraduate students preferred to write fellowship exams at the College of

       Medicine than the university. Training students in Masters Degree programmes was a

       challenge due to few posts made available by the provincial government. The university had

       sufficient capacity to train more postgraduate students. However, the challenge was resources.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                            PAGE: 131 of 163

      The Health Professionals Council of South Africa (HPCSA) sets standards and regulations on

      how many medical students a university can produce or train per year.

     The reason many medical students preferred the College of Medicine over university was

      based on the fact that there was a single standardised exit exam in the college.

     The UL did not offer any unaccredited programmes to students. However, there was challenge

      with the professional body on pharmacy on accreditation of the programme. However, this

      challenge had since been resolved.

     The UL had serious challenge with allocation formula of NSFAS. Majority of students in the

      university were dependant on NSFAS and the maximum that a student may be allocated was

      R20 000 as compared with R47 000 that a student in the University of Cape Town (UCT)

      received. This left students with a huge debt owed to the university after they complete their


     The DVC of the Medunsa Campus was suspended with full pay after a series of student

      protests at the beginning of the year. The disciplinary hearings against the DVC would

      commence on 11 July 2011.

     The university did not have any students that were funded by the HWSETA besides interns

      working in the university departments.

     The UL had a science centre in the Turfloop Campus where learners from neighbouring high

      schools were exposed to science facilities in the centre. The social outreach programme of the

      university was effective.

     The previous VC of Medunsa enrolled more first year students than required hence there was

      an increase in the graduation rates.

     The management of the university was not aware of the sale of land to a private company for

      R4 million.

     The financial constraints of the university did not allow it to have more tutors.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                         PAGE: 132 of 163

      The UL had harmonized conditions of service that applied to all workers of the institution and

       the retirement age was 65.

6.2 Unions

      The unions had management and organised labour meetings every month and a joint

       bargaining forum. However, the voice of the unions was not recognised by executive


      The memorandum of understanding between management had been signed but not honoured

       by management.

      The Nehawu branch of Medunsa shared different ideas on merger with the Nehawu branch in

       Trufloop Campus.

      The land belonging to the university was sold for R4 million and an attorney had called the

       university to request the bank account to deposit the money.

      Medunsa staff members had less power to influence the institution since the institutions had

       been managed predominantly by staff in the Turfloop Campus.

6.3 Student Representative Council (SRC)

      Majority of students in the university were poor and the funding formula used by NSFAS

       should be reviewed.

      The SRC had a good relationship and constant engagement with management. However, most

       of the issues raised by the SRC were not implemented by management.

      The Committee was informed that there was no central SRC in the university since the SRC

       constitution did not allow that.
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      The merger process led to huge institutional memory lost and the student intake was reduced,

       hence the decline in graduation rates.

      The UL did not have sufficient student support service to detect students that required urgent

       assistance with their academic work.

      The lecturer student ratio of the university remained a challenge.

      The SRC welcomed the demerger of Medunsa from UL.

6.4 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training

      The role of Indlela was to provide trade test and assessment to people that had necessary skills

       and had been in the trades industry for many years. It was not a role of Indlela to produce


      The NAMB and QCTO would consolidate trades and occupations into a single integrated

       framework. The NAMB was an autonomous body that would audit and monitor exams and

       trade test at Indlela.

      The bureaucratic process delayed the implementation of the QCTO. There were overlapping

       areas with the other two quality councils (South African Qualifications Authority and Umalusi)

       and the Department had to address those challenges before the QCTO could be implemented.

       The post for the CEO of the QCTO had been advertised and the board was appointed. The

       Department would second 21staff members to assist in the operations of the QCTO.

      The Department would run the QCTO corporate services as an agency and the organogram of

       the QCTO had been submitted to the Minister for approval.

      Indlela would collaborate with labour centres in all the provinces to have provincial presence

       in throughout the country.
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      The Department would setup an Artisans Information Management System (AIMS) which

       would include all details of artisans in the country and track their progress.

      The Department aimed to conclude the disciplinary hearings process before the 30 September

       2011. The people that were implicated in the alleged corrupt activities remained as employees

       at Indlela until the disciplinary hearings process is finalised.

      The Department had suspended the services of the service providers that were involved in the

       corrupt practises. The risk management system had been improved at Indlela and linked with

       the Department to prevent any further corrupt activities.

7. Site Observations

7.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus)

The Committee having conducted site visits in the university made the following observations:

      Library: The library was fully operational and academic books were available for students.

       Postgraduate students had separate computer laboratory where they conducted their research.

      The Oral Health Faculty: The faculty had 68 academic staff, 38 specialists, 320 enrolled

       students and 215 dental units. Approximately two thirds of black oral health professions in the

       country came from Medunsa. The building had more than 40 years and consisted of five floors

       with four theatres of foxication. There were two lecture rooms in the building and the basement

       was used as a research facility. The budget of the faculty was R98 million with R60 million for

       salaries and the rest for other administrative costs. The simulation room project costed R4.5

       million and had a capacity to train 60 students. The building was well maintained and the

       facilities were in working order.

      Residences: Residential accommodation was challenge in the institution. The buildings were

       old and required refurbishment. The rooms for the students were too small especially those that
24 AUGUST 2011                                                            PAGE: 135 of 163

       shared. There were no elevators in the residences. All laundry washing machines were not in

       working order for the past ten years. Most of the stoves in the kitchen were old and not in good

       condition. Some of the taps in the sinks were stolen and some kitchens were unhygienic.

7.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training

The Committee having conducted site visits at Indlela made the following observations:

      Electrical Workshop: The workshop was responsible for assessment of candidates that were

       in the industry for many years and required trade test. Candidates had to pass five categories

       practical learning before writing exams. Candidates had to be literate and able to write in order

       to pass the assessment. The testing facilities within the workshop were in good condition and

       maintained by staff of Indlela. The workshop provided basics for candidates’ not full

       electrician training.

      Fitters and Turners Workshop: The workshop consisted of drilling machines that were

       donated by South Korea at a value of R30 million. Candidates were trained on chain driver

       alignment, adjustment of brakes for elevators and gearbox maintenance.

      Motor Mechanics Workshop: This workshop was responsible for training of candidates in

       motor mechanics. Candidates were assessed on yearly basis and had to complete four years to

       be a qualified motor mechanic. The workshop had five Hyundai Elantra cars that were donated

       by South Korea. The cars were used for testing only. Candidates were trained on motor

       engines, wheel alignment and motor maintenance.

      Plumbing Workshop: This workshop was responsible for training of candidates who were

       interested in plumbing and drainage system. There were six cubicles in the workshop that had

       full equipment for training of plumbers. The equipment in the workshop was fully functional.
24 AUGUST 2011                                                           PAGE: 136 of 163

      Hair Salon Workshop: The workshop was responsible for assessment of candidates in hair

       styling. The workshop had a capacity to assess ten people a day. Candidates were required to

       pass the practical and theory test. All the equipment in the workshop was in good condition.

      Golf Course: The golf course was established in 1990 and consisted of 18 holes with a club

       house. The golf course was no longer operational since it was closed by the Department after

       the findings of the forensic audit report. Maintenance in the golf course was done by the

       grounds men that were employed by Indlela.

8. Findings

The Committee having conducted oversight visit to the UL and Indlela made the following findings:

8.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus)

      The University of Limpopo was in a demerger process with the Medunsa Campus after five

       years of merger. This was aimed to assist Medunsa to increase enrolments and strongly focus

       on health science programmes.

      The university experienced decline in medical postgraduates’ graduation rates. The main

       reasons cited were too few posts provided by the provincial government for training and lack

       of resources.

      The Deputy Vice-Chancellor of Medunsa Campus was on suspension and disciplinary hearing

       process would start on 11 July 2011.

      The NSFAS allocation formula to the university was not efficient as students owed the

       university huge amount of fees due to top slicing.
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      The Veterinary Science was removed from Medunsa and the nearby community was in need of

       this service. There country was in shortage of veterinary professionals to assist rural


      The university residences required urgent infrastructure refurbishment and improved safety and

       security for students.

      There was no Central SRC in the university since Medunsa Campus was a single faculty.

      There was shortage of tutors to assist students with their academic work.

      The Council was not consulted by the Minister on the demerger process of the university.

8.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training

      The Department was in the process of finalising the implementation of the QCTO and NAMB.

      Indlela was the only public trade test centre and the other 600 centres were privately owned

       and accredited by SETAs.

      All the 30 officials alleged to have been involved in financial misconduct and other financial

       irregularities were not suspended.

      Six out of the 30 officials implicated in corruption practises at the institute would face

       disciplinary hearings.

      The Department terminated service providers that were involved in corruption activities with


9. Conclusion
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The two days oversight visit of the Committee to the UL and Indlela was a very fruitful exercise which

gave the Committee a synopsis of the challenges that faced these two institutions. It was evident from

the engagements with the UL that the merger process of two previously disadvantaged institutions

remained a challenge and benefits of merger were yet to be experienced. Challenges such as

accommodation, recreational facilities, student financial support, insufficient resources and lecturer

student ratio remained serious challenges of previously disadvantaged higher education institutions.

Unfortunately, at a time whereby the merger of the two institutions began to shed some light, an

announcement for demerger was communicated to university last year in August. This announcement

came as a surprise to the entire university population as the merger was still at it’s in mid stage. The

announcement meant that the university had to stop with all the processes that were in place for the

realization of the objectives of the merger. The council was in a process to develop a new roadmap

that would guide activities of the demerged institutions.

Indlela was the only public trade test centre in the country out of the 600 privately owned test centres.

The institute had enormous responsibility of conducting trade tests and assessments of candidates that

aspired to be artisans. However, the claims of irregular financial activities that emerged during the

transfer of Indlela from the Department of Labour to the Department of Higher Education and

Training affected the credibility of the institute as an eligible public trade test centre. As result, the

Department appointed an independent audit firm to investigate the financial records of the institute.

The outcome of the report pointed out financial irregularities that involved 30 officials within the

institute. The Department was in the process of finalising disciplinary hearings against the implicated

individuals to be completed at the end of September this year.

10. Recommendations

The Committee having conducted an oversight visit to UL and Indlela recommends the following:
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10.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus)

      All the non functioning facilities at the student residences should be replaced or fixed


      The infrastructure at the student residences required an urgent upgrade to improve the living

       and learning conditions of students.

      The funding formula used by NSFAS to fund students in the university should be reviewed.

      HWSETA should sponsor certain students with bursaries in the health sciences programmes.

      The university should not withhold any results of poor students that owed outstanding tuition


      The Department should assist the university in getting back the Veterinary Science programme

       that was removed from it.

      The university should recruit more lecturers and tutors to improve student support and

       academic learning.

      The University should develop policies for recruiting qualified and competent staff and

       implement a good retention strategy.

      The university should harmonise the salary packages and retirement age of the employees

       within the two campuses.

      The University should uphold the principles of transformation particularly when it comes to

       employing women in the top management structures.

10.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour

Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training
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      The Department should finalise the implementation of NAMB and QCTO before the end of the


      The Department should press criminal charges against all officials found to have been involved

       in financial irregularities.

      Indlela should expand to all the other eight provinces in the country to expand access to people

       in rural areas.

      Indlela should collaborate with the other 14 SETAs to increase the training and development of


      The golf course should be re-opened and facilities within it should be use for the benefit of the


      The Department should handover the Forensic Audit Report of Indlela to the Committee for its


      The Department should obtain database of all the service providers that were involved in

       corrupt activities with Indlela so that they could be blacklisted by Treasury.

Report to be considered



SECURITY           SETA,   CONSTRUCTION           SETA      AND      FIBRE      PROCESSING        AND

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The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, having considered the Budget and

Strategic Plans 2011/12 of the Safety and Security SETA, Construction SETA and Fibre Processing &

Manufacturing SETA reports as follows:

1. Introduction

The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training considered the Budget and Strategic Plans

2011/12 of the SASSETA, CETA and FP&MSETA on 22 June 2011. This report gives a brief

summary of the presentations made by SASSETA, CETA and FP&MSETA to the Committee,

focusing mainly on the 2011/12 Budget and Operational Plans and an overview of challenges and

successes of the previous financial year. The report also provides the Committee’s observations and


The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education & Training was represented by:

Adv I Malale, Chairperson (ANC), Ms Gina (ANC), Mr S Makhubele (ANC), Mr C Moni (ANC), Mr

S Radebe (ANC), Ms W Nelson (ANC), Dr J Kloppers-Lourens (DA), Mr A van der Westhuizen

(DA), Mr A Mpontshane (IFP) and Mr J Dikobo (AZAPO).

Safety and Security SETA was represented by:

Mr A Witbooi: Chairperson, Mr Z Baloyi: Chief Executive Officer, Mr M Mboniswa: Chief Financial

Officer, Ms N Qamata and Mr S Ngoasheng: Senior Manager.

Construction SETA was represented by:
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Mr T Mhambi: Administrator, Mr M Fakude: Chief Financial Officer, Ms S Pilusa: Corporate

Specialist Advisor, Mr F Lamola: Skills Development and Leanership Manager, Mr A Manuel:

Western Cape Regional Manager and Mr T Matobako: ETQA Manager.

Fibre Processing & Manufacturing SETA was represented by:

Mr S Ngidi: Chairperson, Mr S Mkhwanazi: Acting Chief Executive Officer, Mr P Naicker: Acting

Chief Operations Officer and Ms G Layzel: Acting Chief Financial Officer.

Department of Higher Education and Training was represented by:

Ms P Moleke: Deputy Director-General, Skills.

2. Summary of presentations

2.1 Safety and Security SETA

Mr Z Baloyi: Chief Executive Officer led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues:

      Safety SETA’s mission is to be an education and training authority that ensures quality

       provision of skills development and qualifications for South African citizens in the safety and

       security environment through effective and efficient partnership.

      The profile of the safety and security sector included: Policing with 186 000 employees,

       Corrections with 41 907 employees, Justice with 18 181 employees, Defence with 74 596

       employees, Legal with 59 313 employees and Private Security with 387 544 employees.

      Achievements for 2010/11: The SETA conducted stakeholder road shows reaching all nine

       provinces, held successful AGM meeting, fully participated in Provincial Skills Development

       Forums (PSDFs), and implemented Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) for Policing.
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      Challenges: Lack of provincial presence in other provinces besides Gauteng, dropout rate in

       Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) programmes, and transfer of Metro Police

       function from Local Government SETA.

   Strategic Plan: Plans for this year:

          The SETA planned to build its internal research capacity. This would assist the SETA in

           improving its research strategy and develop an effective Sector Skills Plan.

          The SETA planned to establish partnerships with 10 Further Education and Training (FET)

           colleges and Universities of Technology with the aim to increase access to workplace

           opportunities for students. The SETA enrolled 3000 unemployed learners for vocational


          The SETA planned to assist FET colleges through skills development programmes and

           work opportunities for students. A pilot project at three FET colleges has been


          The SETA planned to establish partnership with youth structures such as the National

           Youth Development Agency (NYDA) to assist young people with training and work

           experience projects.

          Training and development support for small businesses would be prioritized. So far 15

           small businesses have been supported.

          The SETA planned to support career and vocational guidance through career exhibitions

           and distribution of career guides to schools.

Financial Report 2011/12:

      The SETA’s total budget for the current financial year was R204 million, Administration

       expenses R73 million, Mandatory Grants R96 million and Discretionary Grants R54 million.
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2.2 Construction SETA

Mr T Mhambi: Administrator led the presentation which highlighted the following:

      Construction SETA was placed under administration by the Minister of Higher Education and

       Training with effect from the 31 March 2011.

      In the past six year, the SETA was not able to achieve its modest targets. Mandatory grants

       were not fully paid to large companies and this negatively affected workplace training in the

       construction sector. The Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) programme had been a

       failure in the construction sector since many employees rejected it. Most employees in the

       sector had been there for a very long time and Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) would

       have been a better option.

      The SETA had more than 300 projects worth R300 million that were not successful. It emerged

       that 80% of the projects were fraudulent and R214 million was defrauded. The money of the

       SETA was not utilized for good purposes.

      Poor corporate governance was the main reason for the poor performance of the SETA.

       Projects were fraudulently managed and the previous board did not take measures to correct

       the situation. Upon arrival of the new accounting authority, there were no staff personnel in the

       projects unit of the SETA.

      The new accounting authority had changed the strategic plan of the SETA since it did not

       respond to the requirements of the National Skills Development Strategy (NDSS III) and the

       new strategic plan would be submitted at the end of June 2011.

      The SETA had a total budget of R313 million for the current financial year. Lack of levy

       information led to an unpaid amount of R47 million for mandatory grants at year ends and the

       grants would be paid by 30 June 2011. The surplus for the current financial year was R187

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2.3 Fibre Processing & Manufacturing SETA

Mr S Ngidi: Chairperson led the presentation which highlighted the following:

      The FP&M SETA was an amalgamation of three SETAs namely; Forest Industries SETA,

       Clothing and Textile SETA and Printing Publishing and Packaging SETA. These new changes

       were as a result of the new SETA landscape that was implemented by the Minister of Higher

       Education and Training, Dr B Nzimande as of 1 April 2011.

      The integration work in the newly formed SETA brought new challenges to the SETA. The

       policies of the three different SETAs had to be streamlined into one to ensure good

       governance, the sector industrial codes had to be renewed, supply chain management and

       procurement policies were revised.

      The three different SETAs would keep their accounts until all their books were closed. There

       would be one central head office of the new SETA and regional offices would be restructured

       later during the course of this financial year.

      The three SETAs had a total of 100 employees’ altogether. However, due to institutional

       memory loss caused by restructuring, the current staff complement was 56 people. The SETA

       had not yet appointed a new permanent CEO and that would be addressed soon.

      The forestry sector profile included forestry, wood products, furniture, pulp and paper.

       Majority of employers were located in KwaZulu Natal (31%). The clothing textile sector

       employed approximately 150 000 people, of which mostly were females. The printing

       packaging and publishing sector employed approximately 49 399 employees.

      Finance: The total levy income budgeted by the FPMSETA in the 2011/12 financial year for

       the Clothing and Textile sector is R65 million, Forest Industries sector R73 million and

       Printing Packaging and Publishing sector R94 million. In total the budget of the FPMSETA

       was R 248 million.
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3. Committee Observations


3.1.1 It emerged that the annual targets for 2011/12 of the SETA contained in its strategic plan were

too low and not responsive to government priorities of job creation and training opportunities for

young people.

3.1.2 It was discovered that the Department had not finalized the issue of Service Level Agreements

(SLAs) with SETAs.

3.1.3 It was noted with extreme concern that the SETA had been underspending for the past two

financial years while it presented so many achievements before the Committee. The Committee was

further concerned with the poor success rate of the ABET programme in the SETA and management

was requested to rectify this challenge.

3.1.4 It was noted with concern that targets for experiential learning were too low while many students

were in dire need of workplace learning to complete their qualifications.

3.1.5 The Committee requested a database of all service providers that were responsible for facilitation

of learnership programmes.

3.1.6 It was noted with concern that the SETA employed only one person with disability in the entire

organization and it was encouraged to do more in this area.

3.1.7 It emerged that the transfer of municipal traffic services in the current financial year posed a

serious challenge for the SETA in terms of funding, since this function was with the Local

Government SETA and remained an unfunded mandate.

3.2 CETA
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3.2.1 It emerged that poor corporate governance was the main reason for the SETA to be put under


3.2.2 The Committee was extremely concerned with the poor performance of the SETA in almost all

its focus areas in the past financial year and commended the Minister’s decision to appoint an

administrator for the SETA.

3.2.3 It emerged that the strategic plan of the SETA was not responding to the needs of the NSDS III

and the new administrator was requested to submit a revised strategic plan to the Committee.

3.2.4 The Committee requested the forensic audit report for its consideration.


3.3.1 It was noted with concern that the integration process of the SETA led to loss of key personnel

within the newly formed SETA.

3.3.2 It emerged that the SETA had not finalized the appointment of the fulltime chief executive

officer, chief financial officer, chief operations officer and new board.

3.3.3 The Committee was concerned that most of the students that were sent to the Czech Republic to

study Masters in Textile Engineering by the former Clothing and Textile SETA had not been placed

on fulltime employment.

3.3.4 It emerged that the annual operational targets of the SETA were not clearly articulated and a

numeric analysis of the targets were not provided.

4. Recommendations

      All the three SETAs were requested to revise their strategic plan so that they can respond to

       government priorities of job creation, rural development and training opportunities for young

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         SASSETA and FPMSETA were requested to expand their physical presence to all the other

          provinces in the country.

         The Department was requested to finalise the SLAs with all SETA.

         CETA was requested to submit a forensic audit report to the Committee for its consideration.

         It was recommended that SETAs should convene a SETA Forum where they will discuss

          strategic issues that were affecting each other.

5. Conclusion

The meeting of the Committee with the three SETAs provided an opportunity for Members to obtain a

synopsis perspective into the annual and future operational plans of the SETAs. This was the first time

the Committee interacted with the three SETAs on their budget and strategic plans. From all the

presentation that were made by the SETAs, the Committee was extremely concerned with their targets

as they were too low and unrealistic for a country that was in dire need of skills development. The

Committee requested that the strategic plans of these SETAs be revised and submitted to the

Committee for further consideration. The overall request of the Committee was that there is more

work that the SETA could do more than what was contained in their strategic plans.

                                       TUESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2011


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1.       The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development
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     (a)   Training Material and Feedback on Training Delivered in regard to sections 66(2)(b) and

           5(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007

           (Act No 32 of 2007).


National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education on the Basic Education Laws

   Amendment Bill [B 36D – 2010 (Reprint)] (National Assembly – sec 76) dated 23 August


       The Portfolio Committee on Basic Education, having considered the subject of the Basic

       Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 36D – 2010 (Reprint)] (National Assembly – sec 76),

       referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports that

       the Committee has agreed to the Bill.

                                  WEDNESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2011


National Assembly

The Speaker
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1.   Referral to Committees of papers tabled

     (1)   The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance:

           (a)   Government Notice No R.617, published in Government Gazette No 34498, dated 29

                 July 2011: Amendment of rules (DAR/91) in terms of sections 64E and 120 of the

                 Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

           (b)   Government Notice No 615, published in Government Gazette No 34478, dated 29

                 July 2011: Approval in terms of section 92 of the Public Finance Management Act,

                 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999) for the State Security Agency to produce only one set of

                 annual financial statements and annual report for the 2010-11 financial year.

           (c)   Government Notice No R.625, published in Government Gazette No 34494, dated 5

                 August 2011: Amendment of Schedule No 4 (No 4/342) in terms of section 75 of the

                 Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

     (2)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Correctional


           (a)   Draft regulations made in terms of the Correctional Services Act, 1998 (Act No 111

                 of 1998).
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   (3)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration

         and to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with


         (a)   Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate on Domestic Violence for the

               period July to December 2010, tabled in terms of section 18(5)(c) of the Domestic

               Violence Act, 1998 (Act No 116 of 1998) [RP47-2011].

   (4)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional

         Development for consideration and report:

         (a)   Report dated 15 August 2011 on the suspension from office of Magistrate D Jacobs, a

               magistrate in Clocolan, tabled in terms of section 13(4)(b) of the Magistrates Act,

               1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

   (5)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Water and

         Environmental Affairs for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General

         on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2009-10 is referred to the

         Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

         (a)   Report and Financial Statements of Botshelo Water for 2009-10, including the Report

               of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for

24 AUGUST 2011                                                        PAGE: 152 of 163

  (6)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for

        consideration and report:

        (a)   Performance management system to monitor and evaluate Icasa chairperson and

              councillors, submitted for consultation with the National Assembly in terms of

              section 6A of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Act, 2000

              (No 13 of 2000).

  (7)   The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for

        consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and

        Fisheries. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements is referred to the

        Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:

        (a)   Report and Financial Statements of the Land Bank for 2010-11, including the Report

              of the Auditor-General on the Consolidated Financial Statements of the Land and

              Agricultural Development Bank of South Africa (Land Bank) for 2010-11


  (8)   The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and

        Constitutional Development for consideration and to the Portfolio Committee on Police,

        Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, Portfolio Committee on Health and

        Portfolio Committee on Social Development:
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         (a)   Submission of directives issued in terms of sections 66(2)(a) and (c) of the Criminal

               Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of


         (b)   Training material and feedback on training delivered in regard to section 66(2)(b) and

               section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters)

               Amendment Act, 2007 (No 32 of 2007).

  (9)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional


         (a)   Government Notice No R.580, published in Government Gazette No 34458, dated 15

               July 2011: Amendment of regulations relating to the Attorneys Fidelity Fund in terms

               of section 81(2) of the Attorneys Act, 1979 (Act No 53 of 1979).

  (10)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology

         for consideration and report:

         (a) Report of the Research and Development Tax Incentive Programme for 2009-10.

  (11)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration

         and to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and

         Portfolio Committee on Health:
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          (a)   Training courses on sexual offences and related matters, developed in terms of

                section 66 and tabled in terms of section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual

                Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007).

   (12)   The following paper is referred to all portfolio committees for consideration and report in

          accordance with their respective mandates:

          (a)   Diagnostic Overview of the National Planning Commission, June 2011.

1. Membership of Committees

   (1) The following changes to Committee membership have been made by the ANC:

      Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture

      Discharged:    Farisani, Rev. T

      Appointed:     Nwamitwa-Shilubana, Ms T

      Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries

      Discharged:    Turok, Mr B

      Appointed:     Cele, Mr MA
24 AUGUST 2011                                       PAGE: 155 of 163

    Portfolio Committee on Communications

    Discharged:   Muthambi, Ms AF

    Appointed:    Ndlazi, Ms Z

    Portfolio Committee on Economic Development

    Discharged:   Huang, Dr SB and Skosana, Mr JJ

    Appointed:    Gcwabaza, Mr NE and Tsotetsi, D

    Portfolio Committee on Transport

    Discharged:   Gcwabaza, Mr NE and Duma, Mr NM

    Appointed:    Huang, Dr SB and Magubane, Mr NE

    Portfolio Committee on Labour

    Discharged:   Khumalo, Ms FT, Mnisi, Ms NA

                  Tsotetsi, Ms DR (ALT)

    Appointed:    Luthuli, Dr AN

                  Nonkonyana, Mr M
24 AUGUST 2011                                                PAGE: 156 of 163

    Portfolio Committee on Public Works

    Discharged:   Jacobus, Ms L

    Appointed:    Magubane, Mr NE

    Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises

    Discharged:   Nonkonyana, Mr M

                  Duma Mr NM (ALT)

    Appointed:    Mokoena, Mr AD

                  September, Ms C

    Portfolio Committee on Police

    Discharged:   Chauke, Mr HP

    Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs

    Discharged:   Mokoena, Mr AD

    Appointed:    Thibedi, Mr J

                  Mnisi, Ms NA

    Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs
24 AUGUST 2011                                                 PAGE: 157 of 163

    Discharged:   Mdaka, Ms NM

    Appointed:    Nelson, Mr WJ

    Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services

    Discharged:   De Lange, Mr JH

    Appointed:    Cele, Mr MA

    Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Cooperation

    Discharged:   Gxowa, Ms NB

    Appointed:    Jacobus, Ms L

                  Chauke, Mr HP

                  Malgas, Ms HH

    Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology

    Discharged:   Luthuli, Dr AN

    Appointed:    Line, Ms H

                  Thibedi, Mr J
24 AUGUST 2011                                               PAGE: 158 of 163

                  Ndlazi, Ms Z

    Portfolio Committee on Sport & Recreation

    Discharged:   Lishivha, Ms TE

    Appointed:    Sunduza, Ms T

    Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry

    Discharged:   Hajaig, Ms F

                  Line Ms H

    Appointed:    September, Ms C

    Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs

    Discharged:   Luyenge, Dr Z (ALT)

    Portfolio Committee on Mining

    Discharged:   Bikani, Ms FC

                  Mathibela, Ms NF

                  Moss, Ms LN

                  Ngele, Ms NJ

    Appointed:    Mjobo, Ms LN
24 AUGUST 2011                                                 PAGE: 159 of 163

    Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform

    Discharged:   November, Ms NT (ALT))

    Appointed:    November, Ms NT

    Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration

    Discharged:   Rasool, Mr E

    Appointed:    Nyekemba, Mr E

    Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training

    Discharged:   Gina, Ms N (ALT)

                  Lekgetho, Mr G

    Appointed:    Gina, Ms N

    Constitutional Review Committee

    Discharged:   Hajaig, Ms F

    Committee on Auditor-General
24 AUGUST 2011                                                      PAGE: 160 of 163

     Discharged:   Matshoba, Mr JM

                   Nonkonyana, Mr M

     Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions

     Discharged:   Mocumi, Ms P

                   Ainslie, Mr R

                   Fihla, Mr NB

     Appointed:    Khumalo, Mr F

     Joint Standing Committee on Defence

     Discharged:   Gololo, Mr CL

                   Koornhof, Mr GW

  (2) The following changes to Committee membership have been made by the Independent


     Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs

     Appointed:    Mcgluwa, Mr JJ (ALT)

     Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs
24 AUGUST 2011                                               PAGE: 161 of 163

    Appointed:   Mcgluwa, Mr JJ

    Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements

    Appointed:   Mcgluwa, Mr JJ (ALT)

    Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation

    Appointed:   Mcgluwa, Mr JJ

    Appointed:   Paulse, Ms SU (ALT)

    Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises

    Appointed:   Greyling, Mr L

    Portfolio Committee on Energy

    Appointed:   Greyling, Mr L

    Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs

    Appointed:   Greyling, Mr L (ALT)

    Standing Committee on Finance
24 AUGUST 2011                                                  PAGE: 162 of 163

      Appointed:    Greyling, Mr L (ALT)

      Portfolio Committee on Social Development

      Appointed:    Paulse, Ms SU

      Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities

      Appointed:    Paulse, Ms SU

      Portfolio Committee on Health

      Appointed:    Hoosen, Mr MH

      Portfolio Committee on Basic Education

      Appointed:    Hoosen, Mr MH (ALT)


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1.   The Minister of Tourism
24 AUGUST 2011                                                          PAGE: 163 of 163

     (a) Report and Financial Statements of South African Tourism for 2010-2011, including the

          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Financial Performance for



National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities

   on the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and

   Development, dated 24 August 2011:

      The Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities, having

      considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Southern African Development

      Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and Development referred to it, recommends that the

      National Assembly, in terms of section 231 (2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

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