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24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 1 of 163 WEDNESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2011 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:06. The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000. The SPEAKER: Hon members, please note that notices of motion and motions without notice will be taken after the condolence motion. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move: That, notwithstanding Rule 29(8) and Rule 113(1), Questions not be given precedence today. Agreed to. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, hon members, I move: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 2 of 163 That, notwithstanding Rule 110(2), which specifies that Questions to the Deputy President may not be scheduled for a question day that falls within a week in which the Deputy President is scheduled to answer questions in the Council, Questions to the Deputy President be taken today. I thank you. Agreed to. MOTION OF CONDOLENCE (The late Bishop L J Tolo) Mr T BOTHA: Hon Speaker, I move: That the House – (1) notes with profound sadness and a deep sense of personal loss the untimely death of the Hon Bishop L J Tolo, who was murdered at 02h00 on Monday 22 August 2011 at his home in Ha Masha Village at Nqwabe in Sekhukhune where he was Bishop of Bagaogelwa Apostolic Church from 1976 as well as President of the Limpopo Apostolic Council of Churches from 1991 to date; (2) further notes that Bishop Tolo, who was born on 21 November 1948 and was active in politics from 1977, was a 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 3 of 163 Member of Parliament since 1994, first as an ANC MP and then as a Cope MP since 2009; (3) recognises that Bishop Tolo was a humble man with strong principles and a deep and personal concern for those who were impoverished, sick and physically incapacitated, as witnessed in his determination to pursue relief from government for the people of Sekhukhune, who had a deep- rooted pride for the history of his people and his culture, as manifested in his abiding love of Sepedi, his mother tongue; (4) believes that the murder of Bishop Tolo has taken a loving and caring family man; (5) further believes that the police must leave no stone unturned to track down the perpetrators of this heinous deed that has seen a committed South African becoming another casualty of violent crime, and expose them to the full wrath of the law; and (6) conveys its heartfelt condolences to the Tolo family, his grieving widow Salome, their four sons, three daughters and ten grandchildren, and to his colleagues and friends across party political lines as well as the community of Sekhukhune that he served with such devotion. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 4 of 163 The SPEAKER: I wish to recognise and welcome the family of the late Bishop Tolo, in front us, led by his brother. You are welcome. Mrs N F MATHIBELA: Hon Speaker, ... ... ba gaTolo re re mahloko; mahloko ao tšwago go ANC yeo e bego e le legae la Ntate Tolo. [... our deepest condolences to the Tolo family, on behalf of the ANC, which was home for Mr Tolo.] I got to know the late hon Tolo in the 1990s, when we were busy organising a sub-region in our region, which is today a region of Sekhukhune. It was then the eastern region of the Northern Transvaal, in the former Lebowa. The late hon Bishop Jack Tolo was born on 21 November 1948, at Sekhukhune, GaMasha. He joined politics in 1968 and became a member of the ANC in 1977, and a Member of Parliament in 1994. Apart from his religious commitment as a Bishop of the Apostolic Church since 1976, the Late Bishop Tolo, a 63-year-old parliamentarian and church pastor, was married to Salome Tolo, and they had seven children and 10 grandchildren. The hon Jack Tolo ... ... o be a le motho yo boleta, wa go sega ka mehla, wa go loka le wa go hlompha bomme. Ka nako yeo re bego re hloma makala, re tlo aga selete sa ka fase ga selete sa bohlabela kua Sekhukhune, ke ile ka kgethwa go ba modulasetulo wa sona gomme Mme Salome Tolo, yo a bego 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 5 of 163 a le mokgotse wa ka, a kgethwa go ba moswaramatlotlo. Re bile bakgotse, bašomimmogo re thekgilwe ke Mohu Ntate Tolo. Mohu Ntate Tolo e be e le ntate – ba a hlokwa bontate ba ba swanago le yena. Ka nako yeo, dinamelwa di be di hlokega. Mohu Ntate Tolo o be a dira gore Mme Salome o ba le senamelwa sa go re iša moo re tla go be re nyaka go ya gona ka dinako tšohle. Maolokoa a Cope le ba gaTolo, ga le a lahlegelwa le nnoši, le lahlegetšwe le ANC. Re lahlagetšwe ke Mohu Ntate Tolo ka gore o be a le ka go Cope, feela o be o ka seke wa re ke leloko la Cope, o be o ka re ke leloko la ANC ka gore ke mokgatlo wo o ilego wa mo ruta dipolotiki, wa mo ruta bophelo. O bile yena motho woo go fihla letšatši le a sepelago ka lona, a sa le motho yo a ratago batho. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.) [He was a soft-hearted and kind-hearted person with a sense of humour, and had deep respect for women. I remember when we were organising the formation of a new sub-region of the eastern region, I was elected the chairperson and Salome Tolo, who was my friend, the treasurer. We were friends and colleagues with the support of Mr Tolo. The late Mr Tolo was an ideal father – very few can be like him. At that time the transport system was a problem, and Mr Tolo would ensure that his wife, Salome, had secured transport to take us where we were going at all times. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 6 of 163 To the members of Cope, and the Tolo family, the ANC shares your loss. Mr Tolo passed on as a Cope member, but you would have mistaken him to be an ANC member, for it is the latter that taught him politics and life in general. He was a people’s person and remained like that until the very last moment of his life.] When I met the Tolo family in the 90s, the late Mr Tolo and his wife were people who were very committed to the ANC. When our icon, Mr Nelson Mandela, was released from prison and came to visit Jane Furse, Ntate Tolo had a musical band, and we all marched together to go and fetch Tata and take him to the venue where he was supposed to address the people. As a man and a Christian, Ntate Tolo was God- gifted. I am so shocked to hear that Ntate Tolo was robbed and killed now, when he was supposed to have been killed then when he had money, not today. Mohu Ntate Tolo o be a buša Ngwabe, GaMasha. Mabenkele a gagwe a be a le a lesomepedi kua Ngwabe. [The late Mr Tolo was like a king at his home village of Ngwabe, GaMasha where he owned a fleet of twelve shops.] Ntate Tolo had a musical band, buses and almost everything that anybody could wish for. He was the first person to have a car there and his wife also had a car. He used to make sure that the wife’s 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 7 of 163 car was always full of petrol. Very few fathers and husbands are like him. I remember Bishop Tolo as a very happy person, and he respected women. He used to say, “I respect women because women are the mothers who can look after the children even when we are not there.” He once related the story that he was working as a truck driver and when he came home he didn’t have any money, but his wife took out money and gave it to him to go and buy a car. That is how he got his first car. It is very sad to have lost Bishop Tolo in this day and age. I remember him as such a happy person with his happy family. He was not even too lazy to cook. When we were organising, we would sometimes finish late, and since I stayed far and our transport was very poor, I used to sleep at his home. When we got there, we would find him cooking. He would dish up, call us, tell us to wash our hands and eat. How many fathers and husbands are doing that? To the Tolo family, I remember Bishop Tolo as a happy person, always making jokes and being very supportive to women. He used to say, “I respect women more than myself.” I would like to say to his wife, children, family and friends, may they find comfort in having known such a wonderful person. Although 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 8 of 163 no words can really help to ease the loss you bear, just know that you are very close in every thought and prayer. May his soul rest in peace! Sithi akwehlanga elungehli. [We convey our condolences.] Ba gaTolo mahloko, gomme ga a robale a khutšo! [Our deepest condolences to the Tolo family; may his soul rest in peace!] Mr J SELFE: Mr Speaker, it was my privilege to have known Jack Tolo since we became senators together in 1994. The Senate consisted of only 90 members and, because it was so small, its members got to know one another rather better than we in the National Assembly know one another. Over time, Bishop Tolo moved from being a political opponent to a respected colleague and then to a close friend. Moruti, as we called him, was born and grew up in Sekhukhune, in Limpopo. His parents were very poor and he was forced to begin work, as an agricultural worker and then as a driver, when he was very young. He never lost his love of agriculture, for the people of his community, whom he served with such distinction, or his disgust at bad drivers. He constantly complained that young people got driving licences too easily, and that was the reason why there are so many accidents on the road. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 9 of 163 He was a simple, straightforward person who knew what was right and what was wrong. He fought for what was right and was passionately opposed to what was wrong. That was what drew him into the struggle for democracy and justice in South Africa and into politics. Because of this passion, he wasn’t a person who slavishly followed any particular party line. He was his own man, and he expressed to me his distaste for some political views, particularly for the views of the president of the ANC Youth League, long before it became fashionable to do so. He was also a person of profound faith. He was a Bishop in the Apostolic Church, and took his ecclesiastical responsibilities very seriously. He was an impressive preacher and used the skill with great effect at this podium, seldom with a single note, particularly when he was speaking about matters that he felt deeply about. He was also a genuine apostle and he was worried about my salvation and used to talk in that deep voice and say, “Selfe, you would never go to heaven if you don’t go to church”. He and I and many other colleagues served together in the Select Committee on Security and Justice, in Senate, and later in the Portfolio Committees of Defence and Correctional Services. In fact, Bishop Tolo and I served continuously, since 1994, on the committee dealing with correctional services so long that we became known as Blou Baadjies, the name that offenders give to habitual criminals. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 10 of 163 His passion shone through in that committee as well. He believed in discipline, order and in paying one’s debt to society. But, he also believed that each human soul is created in the image of God and that, therefore, human beings are redeemable and able to be rehabilitated. He was also very proud of this democratic Parliament that he had helped to create. Only last Thursday we were talking about the fact that there were now only 27 members of both Houses of Parliament who were Members of Parliament in 1994. Tragically, there are now only 26. His death and the way he died are terrible. We speak often about crime in this House, but it is when a ghastly murder like this happens that we again appreciate the reality faced by hundreds of thousands of victims of violent crime in this country. We trust that the perpetrators of this horrible crime will be arrested soon and face the full force of the law. His death has robbed us all of a gentleman, a patriot, a priest, a parliamentarian and a leader. But, it has also robbed us of a great friend. We extend our heartfelt condolences to his wife Salome, his children and grandchildren, his congregants, his community and to his colleagues in Cope. The one consolation that we can all draw in this terrible time is that, whatever happens to my soul, I am absolutely certain that his is in heaven. Rest in peace, my friend. [Applause.] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 11 of 163 Mr V B NDLOVU: Mr Speaker, on behalf of the IFP, we want to register our shock on hearing that a Member of Parliament has been murdered in his home, and that nobody has yet been arrested as we speak. The IFP finds it very strange that a Member of Parliament, who was a leader of people, was attacked and killed in his house for a few pieces of jewellery and just R7 000, in front of his family members, and that nobody has been arrested as yet. Bishop Tolo was a kind man, beloved by everybody, very passionate about his people and the area where he came from, including his family. Therefore, a murder such as this one does not augur well for the security operators of this country, especially the Members of Parliament. Bishop Tolo was a great friend of mine. When I joined the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services we became friends. When we went outside of Parliament with committees to do oversight work, we became even better friends and grew to understand each other better each day. It is very sad to hear that a person can lose his life the way that he lost his. I want to extend our condolences to the family and friends, especially his wife, relatives and colleagues. We are making a request to the police to make sure that they do everything in their power to arrest the perpetrators and ensure that those found are found guilty of this hideous crime and languish in jail - to honour 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 12 of 163 a man as honourable as Bishop Tolo. Uhambe kakuhle Bishop. [Go well, Bisop]. Thank you. [Applause.] Mr N M KGANYAGO: Speaker and hon members, ... ... monna wa lerato, monna wa botho, monna wa seriti, monna wa senatla, monna wa kwelobohloko; yoo ke Mna Tolo. Beke e fetilego o tlile go nna mola ke dulago gona, a ntshwara mo legetleng a mpotša gore, o swanetše go dira maano a go bitša kopano ya batho ba go tšwa Limpopo, gore ge go nale mathata re tsebišane. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.) [... a man who loved people, a kind man, a dignified man, a strong man, a compassionate man; that was Mr Tolo. Last week he came to my place, put his hand on my shoulder and told me that he has to call all the people who are from Limpopo to a meeting so that we could inform each other when we encounter problems.] He said this because I had lost a son two weeks before, and he did not know about it. When he came there, he came with a suggestion, to inform people who are closer to one another when death strikes. He said that he would take it upon himself to call that meeting. I really don’t know what is going to happen, because he is gone. Fela ke monna wa lerato. [He loved people.] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 13 of 163 The UDM once more extends its deepest condolences to the family, friends and colleagues, on the tragic death of the late hon Jack Tolo. Once again, crime has robbed us of a diligent and hardworking citizen. Government needs to intensify its efforts in fighting violent crime in South Africa, in order to prevent further unnecessary losses of life. He succeeded in playing various parliamentary roles which came and went over a long career in politics. Underneath, though, Bishop Jack Tolo was a community builder. He never hesitated in drawing from his personal resources in order to help members of his community. Taba ya metsotso e mebedi e tlo mpolaya ka gore nka se kgone go bolela tše dingwe ka baka la nako ye. [Two minutes is not enough because I won’t be able to say everything I wanted to say.] The SPEAKER: Ke tla go fa metsotso e mengwe e mebedi. [I will give you two more minutes.] Like us, there will be many people who share in his family’s grief during this time of bereavement. Our thoughts and prayers are with them. May his soul rest in peace. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 14 of 163 ... fela pelo tša rena di kwele bohloko batho ba Modimo. A re tsebe gore na ro dula kae; ro dula ka gare ga melete re tšhaba dikelema goba re ye kae ka baka la gore le dintlong tša rena ga go sana mo re ka khutago gona, ba a go lalela; ba dira dilo tše kamoka ga tšona. A re emeng ka maoto re nyake maano a go lwa le dilo tše. Dilo tše ke dinokwane, ga di a loka, di a re fetša. Ka bošigo ke nna, ka le lengwe letšatši e tla be e le wena. Ke a leboga. [Legoswi.] (Transalation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.) [... we are in pain. We don’t know where to stay now; must we go and stay in the holes to hide from the criminals, or where must we stay because we are no longer safe in our own homes? They lie in ambush waiting for you; they do all these things. Let us stand on our feet and find a way of dealing with these criminals. They are rogues, they are dangerous, and they are killing us. Tomorrow they might do the same to me or to you. Thank you. [Applause.]] The DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Speaker, personally, it is with real sadness that I express my condolences on the death of the hon Bishop Jack Tolo. The hon Tolo was a very special man, and we experienced it in that way in this House. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 15 of 163 He had a special love for his mother tongue, Sepedi. He was proud of his people’s history and of their culture. We had long discussions, specifically on these issues, and the important role that one’s mother tongue plays. We agreed on these issues, specifically on how important the mother tongue of everyone in South Africa is, for the dignity of everyone in our country. Ek sal, daarom verder in Afrikaans praat en die agb Tolo sal dit juis baie goed verstaan en aanmoedig. Ons het baie keer ook so in Afrikaans met mekaar gepraat. Ons, in die VF Plus, was sedert 1994 saam met hom hier in die Parlement en ons tel dan ook onder daardie 26 wat oorgebly het. Daarom het ons mekaar oor ’n lang tyd leer ken. Hy was altyd vriendelik en aangenaam, maar mens moes dit nie met swakheid verwar het nie. Hy het nie gehuiwer om vir sy mense in Sekhukhune hier te veg en na hul beste belange om te sien, sover hy dit kon regkry nie. Ek het hom by Binnelandse Sake en by Landbou, wat vir hom belangrik was, leer ken, waar hy altyd belangrike bydraes op ’n aangename manier gemaak het. As ’n Cope-stigterslid het ons hom bewonder vir die moed om volgens sy oortuigings op te tree in daardie moeilike tyd in 2009, net voor die verkiesing. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 16 of 163 Ons wil van die VF Plus se kant af die hoop uitspreek dat die misdadigers deur die polisie gevang sal word, sodat ons die volle waarheid oor sy onnatuurlike dood sal kan vasstel. Ek is dankbaar dat sy familie hier teenwoordig is om ook die hulde te kan hoor wat ons, wat hom hier leer ken het, bring. Ek dra graag die simpatie van die VF Plus, maar ook van die hele Huis oor aan sy vrou, Salome, en aan sy kinders en kleinkinders. Waar biskop Tolo as ’n Christen aktief in sy kerk betrokke was as ’n oortuigde gelowige, bid ons as mede-Christene vir troos vir sy vrou en kinders. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Therefore, I will continue in Afrikaans and the hon Tolo would certainly understand it very well and encourage it. Likewise, we also conversed on many occasions in Afrikaans with each other. We, in the FF Plus, joined him here in Parliament in 1994 and we can consequently be reckoned amongst those 26 people who remain. Hence we came to know each other over a long period of time. He was always friendly and pleasant, but one did not regarded this as a sign of weakness. He did not hesitate to fight here for his people in Sekhukhune and took care of their best interests, in so far as it was within his power to do so . 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 17 of 163 I got to know him at Home Affairs and Agriculture, which were very important to him, where he always made important contributions in a pleasant manner. As a founder member of Cope we admired him for having the courage of his convictions during that difficult time in 2009, just before the elections. On behalf of the FF Plus we would like to express the hope that the police will apprehend the criminals in order for us to ascertain the whole truth about the unnatural way in which he died. I am grateful that his family is present here, also listening to us, who got to know him here, paying tribute to him. I readily convey the sympathy of the FF Plus, but also that of the entire House to his wife, Salome, and his children and grandchildren. Where Bishop Tolo as a Christian was active in his church as a committed believer, we pray as fellow Christians that his wife and children may be comforted. I thank you.] Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you, hon Speaker. The ACDP learned with shock and sadness of the death of Bishop Tolo, as he was affectionately known. He died in an attack by armed robbers on his home and family, in the early hours of Monday morning, in Polokwane. The 63-year-old parliamentarian, who was also a pastor, served in the leadership of the Apostolic Church since the 1970s. He was in 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 18 of 163 the process of building a church for his congregants, which was also to be used as a community hall by villagers. Hon Tolo, who represented a rural, Limpopo constituency, and, over time, served on various committees, including Arts and Culture, Agriculture and Land Affairs, Defence, and Correctional Services, was diligent in every way and was always on top of the issues. He was known as a generous man and is remembered for building houses for poor families in GaMasha village, outside Sekhukhune, in Limpopo. The ACDP shares the distress of his family, friends and colleagues in the party, on this untimely loss of life. We extend sincere condolences to his wife Salome, their seven children and 10 grandchildren, their extended family, friends and congregants, his colleagues in Cope and the members of this House who have known him for many years. Thank you. Moh I C DITSHETELO: Ke a leboga Mmusakgotla. Rona re le batho ba UCDP, dipelo tsa rona di gamuketse botlhoko ka rre Tolo. Rre Tolo o ne a re makatsa, re na le kgwedi fela re le fano, re sa itse ope fano, ka bona a tsena kwa go rona. Fa a tsena ga a ise a ke a dumedise, o tsene fela a bo a re wa bona wena kgaitsadio ke sebare sa ka. Jaanong ke ipotsa gore ntate yo ke mang, a bo a ipolela a re 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 19 of 163 nna ke Tolo ke Leloko la Palamente. E le motho yo o nang le botho a re bolelela gore o itse mapalamente a rona. Go tloga foo, rre Tolo ya nna tsala ya batho ba UCDP. Re maketse thata fa re tla go utlwa go twe rre Tolo o tsamaile. Fa re fetsa moo ka boela gae mme ka bolela gore go na le ntate yo mongwe yo o neng a tla kwa go rona a re bolelela gore o a le itse. E rile ke ise ke bue leina la gagwe rre wa ka a re o raya rre Tolo. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.) [Ms I C DITSHETELO: Thank you Speaker. As the UCDP members, we are heartbroken about Mr Tolo. Mr Tolo surprised us in only our first month here; we didn’t know anyone and I saw him arrive at our place. He didn’t greet when he came in, he just said your brother is my in- law. And I asked myself who is this man; he then said I am Tolo and I am a Member of Parliament. He was friendly and told us that he knew our fellow parliamentarians. From there, Mr Tolo befriended UCDP members. We are shocked to hear that Mr Tolo has passed away. After that, I went back home and I told them about a certain gentleman who came and told us that he knew them. Before I could even say his name, my father asked if I was talking about Mr Tolo.] That was a very good man and he was polished. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 20 of 163 Re utlwile borra Tolo gore re kgaogane le tsala ya rona. Go le gantsi fa re le mo dipolotiking ga re tshwaragane ka matsogo fela se se diragatseng gompieno se tshwanetse se re kopanye bagaetsho. Ke nnete ntate yo o tshetse le rona jalo ka nako tsotlhe. Ka nako tsotlhe o ne a re botsa gore le kwa kae maUCDP mme le dira eng. Tsogang! ntwa e teng. Jaanong ke ka moo ke reng ... (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.) [To The Tolos, we heard that we had separated from our friend. Normally in politics we are not united, but what happened today should unite us. It is true that this gentleman lived with us like that. All the time he used to ask us where the UCDP members were and what we were doing. Wake up! There’s a war. That is why I say ...] ... may you find solace and comfort in the legacy he left, his commitment and willingness to serve his country and his firm stand on issues he believed in. May his soul rest in peace. Kgotsofalang bagaetsho. A ntho ya lona e fole. Pelo tsa lona ga di utlwile botlhoko di tshwana fela le tsa rona. Ke a leboga.[Legofi.] [Celebrate his life and may your wound be healed. Your broken hearts are similar to ours. Thank you. [Applause.]] Mr R B BHOOLA: Mr Speaker, there are many sorrows in life. One of the greatest sorrows that no one would like to experience is undoubtedly that of death. On behalf of the MF, I bring heartfelt 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 21 of 163 condolences and messages of strength, courage and fortitude to the families, friends and relatives of the late Bishop Tolo for their loss. Our condolences also go out to Cope, for the loss of an impeccable, dynamic leader, a true servant of the Lord and a true citizen of humanity. It is quite correctly said that true leaders are those who add value to society. With his warm and caring personality, the late Bishop always showed compassion for the poor and destitute with great humility. Today I am reminded of the profound words of Madiba, when he said, and I quote: There must be peace for all. You must not be afraid to say what you want to say today. People might dislike what you say today, but will remember what you say today tomorrow. This is precisely the kind of personality the late Tolo was. He wanted peace for all. He ensured that the Word of the Lord was upheld so that one’s strength could be renewed. He went the extra mile to serve his people. He had the knowledge, the experience and the skill to preside over challenging issues. He served his organisation, Cope, with honesty, integrity and hard work. He played an integral role in bringing about peace and stability amongst his members and organisation. Many who endured 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 22 of 163 hardship had benefitted from the generosity of the late Bishop Tolo, who, you have heard, built houses for the needy and destitute with his own money. What an amazing characteristic! The late Bishop Tolo will undoubtedly be sadly missed by all those who loved him so dearly. Mrs Tolo, because of your strength and support, you have delivered the late Bishop to be an astounding, remarkable and dignified leader. God bless you and give you the strength to deal with your irreplaceable loss. May peace be upon him through the grace of God Almighty. May his soul rest in peace in the high heavens. I thank you. [Applause.] Mna K J DIKOBO: Mohl Seboledi, mohl Motlatša Mopresidente, bahlomphegi Ditona le Batlatša Tona, maloko ao a hlomphegago a Ngwako, ba lapa la Mopišopo Tolo, re ile ra tšhoga le go se dumele ge re ekwa ka lehu la modirišani ka rena, Mopišopo Tolo. Go se dumele ga rena go tlišwa ke gore re be re na le yena bekeng ya go feta, re tšeere mehlamo gape re sega. Ke ka fao re rilego go kwa taba ye ya ba eke go tla tla lentšu le lengwe ka morago la gore, “Ga go bjalo. Re be re sa kwa gabotse.” Lehu la Mopišopo Tolo ke tahlegelo go ba lapa le meloko, Bagaugelwa Apostolic Church, profense ya gešo ya Limpopo, mokgatlo wa Cope le naga ya Afrika-Borwa ka bophara. Re lahlegetšwe ke monna wa lerato; monna wa sefahlego sa go dula se edile; monna wa go se fele pelo. Mohl Mopišopo Tolo e be e le motho wa maele; motho wa go dula a hlohleletša batho gore ba dire gabotse. Go fihleng ga ka Palamenteng 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 23 of 163 ngwageng wa go feta, Mopišopo Tolo e bile yo mongwe wa batho bao ke ilego ka ithekga ka bona. Ke be ke fela ke re mo ke gakanegilego gona ke botšiše gore naa mo go tle go dirwe bjang. O be a nkamogela ka lethabo gape a fela a ntebogiša a re, “O a bona Dikobo, o boletše gabotse lehono. Ga ke go reke sefahlego.” Re lahlegetšwe ke senatla; mogale wa bagale. Mokgapa wo mogolo o wele, dithaga di lla mašogošogo. Re re go ba lapa, homotšegang. A re se ke ra dumela mokgwa wo Mopišopo Tolo a hlokofetšego ka wona o re šira ra se bone lerato la Modimo le ditšhegofatšo tšeo re bilego le tšona ka lebaka la bophelo bja papa Tolo. Ee, re gobetše. Efela a re kweng taletšo ya Modimo ge a re go rena, “Etlang go nna bohle bao le imetšwego le bao le lapišitšwego, nna ke tla le khutšiša.” O re: “Ithwešeng joko ya ka ka gore yona e bobebe.” Legatong la Azapo, ke re mahloko go ba lapa le metswalle, ba kereke le ba mokgatlo wa Cope. Re re eke moya wa gagwe o ka robala ka khutšo. Ke a leboga. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi speech follows.) [Mr K J DIKOBO: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, the family of Bishop Tolo, we were shocked and could not believe when we heard about our colleague Bishop Tolo’s death. We could not believe the sad news because he was with us here last week and we were talking and laughing. After hearing the sad news we thought maybe somebody would 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 24 of 163 later come and tell us that it is not true, that we had been misinformed. His untimely death is a loss to the family and friends, Bagaugelwa Apostolic Church, Limpopo Province, Cope and the whole of South Africa. We have lost a loving man, a man who was always happy, a patient man. Hon Bishop Tolo always encouraged people to do good at all times. Bishop Tolo is one of the people I relied on when I arrived in Parliament last year. I used to contact him whenever I needed clarity on something. He always responded with love and he would sometimes praise me and say, “You see Dikobo, to be honest with you, you spoke very well today”. We have lost a strong man, a hero. We are saddened by the death of this great man. We convey our heartfelt condolences to his family. Let us not allow the brutal murder of hon Tolo to overshadow the love and the blessings we received from God through the life of hon Tolo. Yes, we are in deep pain, but let us listen to God when he says, “Come to me, all you who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” God says, “Take my yoke upon you... for my yoke is easy.” On behalf of Azapo, I would like to convey our heartfelt condolences to the family, the friends, the church members and Cope members. May his soul rest in peace. Thank you. [Applause.]] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 25 of 163 Mr T BOTHA: Hon Speaker, Tata Tolo was an upright man who practised genuine humility and who carried himself with courteous dignity. His spiritual belief shaped the course of his life. It is no wonder then that the lifelong activism in him drew strength whenever he was faced with adversity. I refer to the biblical quotation, “If God be for us, who can be against us?” Romans 8:31. All of us who knew him well will know how very fond he was of this quotation. Bishop Tolo was a dedicated churchman, a respected community leader, an enterprising businessperson and a diligent Member of Parliament who pursued social justice for his people without letting up. He took his duties very seriously and he administered pastoral care with passion and a deep sense of humility. Bishop Tolo was a man in the Walter Sisulu mould. He never sought publicity and yet, among his peers, he was the moral rock that people could depend on. Every one of us will also remember that whenever he addressed this House, he preferred to speak in his native Sepedi because he valued culture and tradition very highly. He was close to King Sekhukhune and the tribal elders. The Sowetan observed that he was a man “rooted in community”. Indeed, he never left his home village of GaMasha in the Sekhukhune area. Today we hear of some of the good work he undertook, of which we had no 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 26 of 163 knowledge. At his own expense, he renovated the GaMasha tribal office, and added three classrooms to the Masha tribal school. Four families were the recipients of houses he built for them because he was so moved by the circumstances of their lives. At the GaMasha clinic, he built a three-roomed attachment so that pregnant women no longer needed to give birth out in the open. He helped to fence the cemetery and build a toilet in the cemetery complex. Bishop Tolo generously bore catering expenses when community meetings were held; at every turn he used his influence and resources to bring relief to the people around him. When Madiba visited the Sekhukhune area before the 1994 elections, Bishop Tolo was called up onto the stage and publicly acknowledged by the father of our democracy for his long and distinguished service to the community. Bishop Tolo was a man of peace and we who knew him well are deeply anguished at the violent nature of his death. We are also immensely saddened by the trauma that his wife Salome and the family experienced on that sad and tragic morning when he was snatched away from all of us. His strength of character, his humour, his moral rectitude and his unflinching adherence to the truth were what fortified all of us. If politics are served by people of his quality and integrity, no one 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 27 of 163 will ever have any criticism of politicians ever again. This is the challenge he leaves us and the challenge the country wants to see us rise to. Our deepest condolences to his wife, sons, daughters and the entire family! Robala gabotse, sebata, moetapele wa batho ba Afrika-Borwa. [Rest in peace, a hero and leader of South African people.] Thank you. [Applause.] The SPEAKER: Hon members, I take it that there are no objections to the adoption of the motion by the House. Will members please rise to observe a moment of silence in memory of the late Bishop Tolo. Please be seated. The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the Tolo family. I thank you. Debate concluded. Motion agreed to, members standing. NOTICES OF MOTION Mr G G BOINAMO: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 28 of 163 That the House debates the plight of ex-mineworkers, and solutions to deal with the long-standing problems faced by this group of South Africans. Mr S E KHOLWANE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates the accountability and transformation of the media in general and print media in particular. Mrs G M BORMAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates plans to overcome the challenges in delivering water and sanitation to meet the targets set for 2014. Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House debates the poor state of enforcement of traffic laws and regulations by traffic authorities, particularly with regard to public taxi transport services. Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 29 of 163 That the House debates the increase of cable theft and the impact on public transport. Mrs M S F DE FREITAS: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: That the House debates the old Durban Airport and possible solutions for its future use. Ms M J SEGALE-DISWAI: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House debates South Africa’s readiness to deal with natural disasters. Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move: That the House debates how to develop and create more internships and learnerships for South Africa’s youth to give them the skills and experience to compete successfully in the job market. Mr N D DU TOIT: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 30 of 163 That the House debates the ongoing poaching of South Africa’s abalone resources, the possible links of this criminal activity to the drug trade, and possible solutions to curb poaching and further protect the resource. Mrs S P KOPANE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: That the House debates the state of the Child Protection Register, and solutions to rapidly improve the use of this register in order to ensure the protection of our children in South Africa. Mr G R MORGAN: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA: That the House debates the effectiveness and appropriateness of the commercialisation strategy of SA National Parks, SANParks, ten years after it was established; and solutions to improve funding for SANParks while ensuring that conservation is enhanced. PRESIDENT ZUMA ELECTION TO LEAD SADC TROIKA (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker and hon Deputy President, I move without notice: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 31 of 163 That the House — (1) notes that President Jacob Zuma was elected to take over the chairmanship of the SADC organ on politics, defence and security troika, from Zambian President Rupiah Banda when the regional leaders met on Wednesday, 18 August 2011, during a two-day summit in Angola; (2) believes that this gesture is in recognition of the sterling role the President is playing in Africa in creating conditions for peace, stability and good neighbourliness; and (3) wishes the President success in his new role. Agreed to. SPRINGBOKS TO PARTICIPATE IN 2011 RUGBY WORLD CUP (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, I move without notice: That the House — 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 32 of 163 (1) notes the announcement of the 30-man Springbok squad to travel to New Zealand in September to compete in the 2011 IRB Rugby World Cup; (2) further notes that this announcement follows the Springboks’ 18-5 win over arch rivals New Zealand on Saturday in their final Tri-Nations clash at the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium in Port Elizabeth; (3) recognises that this victory gave the Springboks the much needed confidence and momentum to take the team into the IRB Rugby World Cup that starts in New Zealand on 10 September 2011; (4) acknowledges that eighteen members of South Africa’s triumphant 2007 Rugby World Cup-winning squad were included in the 2011 group; (5) further acknowledges that the Springboks, having previously won the prestigious tournament in 1995 and 2007, head to New Zealand to try and become the first nation to win back-to- back World Cup titles; and (6) congratulates the individual members of the squad and wishes the touring party together with the coaching staff the best of luck as they aim to once again win the tournament. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 33 of 163 Agreed to. TRAGIC DEATH OF SCHOOLCHILDREN IN KNYSNA (Draft Resolution) Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Speaker, I move without notice: That the House — (1) notes with great sorrow the reported deaths of schoolchildren in Knysna, when their school bus plunged into a river early this morning; (2) further notes that it is reported that the other children suffered serious trauma and injury; (3) extends its heartfelt condolences to the families and friends of the deceased and expresses its concern for the injured children; and (4) mourns this tragic loss of life with the rest of the country. Agreed to. 2011 SOUTH AFRICAN SPORTS AWARDS 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 34 of 163 (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, I move without notice: That the House — (1) notes that the South African Sports Awards took place on Sunday, 21 August 2011; (2) further notes that the Sports Awards have been created to recognise and honour individuals and teams who have excelled both on and off the field during the period from 1 November 2009 to 30 April 2011; and (3) congratulates all the recipients who received awards in their respective categories. Agreed to. SOUTH AFRICAN ULTRA-RUNNER RYAN SANDES WINS (Draft Resolution) Mrs S V KALYAN (DA): Hon Speaker, I move without notice: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 35 of 163 That the House — (1) notes that on Saturday, 20 August 2011, South African ultra- runner Ryan Sandes won the 2011 Leadville Trail 100 Mile Run in Colorado, USA, in a time of 16:46:56; (2) further notes that this gruelling ultra marathon, which Sandes won in the 3rd best time in history, is competed at an altitude of between 9 000 and 12 000 feet above sea level; (3) acknowledges that in December 2010 Sandes became the first competitor to win each event in the world-renowned 4 Deserts self-supported foot race, a series of races across the Atacama, Gobi, Sahara and Antarctic deserts; and (4) congratulates Sandes on his achievements and wishes him the most success with his future career. Agreed to. CONGRATULATIONS TO BANYANA BANYANA (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, I move without notice: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 36 of 163 That the House — (1) notes that Banyana Banyana on Saturday, 20 August 2011, defeated Mozambique 5-0 in an international friendly match played at the Lucas “Masterpieces” Moripe Stadium in Atteridgeville, Tshwane; (2) further notes that the win took Banyana Banyana’s 2011 statistics to 11 wins from 13 matches under the guidance of national coach Joseph Mkhonza; (3) congratulates Banyana Banyana on their convincing victory; and (4) wishes Banyana Banyana success in their coming match against Ethiopia in an Olympic Qualifier first leg encounter at the Orlando Stadium in Soweto on Saturday, 27 August 2011. Agreed to. WELCOMING OF DELEGATION FROM VIETNAM The SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to recognise a visiting delegation from Vietnam, the Vietnamese parliament in the gallery. A warm welcome to you all. [Applause.] Thank you very much. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 37 of 163 The next item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to the Deputy President. Again members may press the “talk button” on their desks if they wish to ask supplementary questions. The first question is asked by hon Mr N Singh. QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Details of government’s expanded HIV-Aids programme 5. Mr N Singh (IFP) asked the Deputy President: (a) What are the details of the government's recently announced expanded HIV-Aids programme (details furnished), (b) how will the programme be (i) financed, (ii) monitored and (iii) rolled out and (c) when will the full details be made available? NO2516E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, during the SA National Aids Council, Sanac, meeting on 12 August this year, we announced that people who are infected with HIV and have a Cluster of Differentiation 4, CD4, cell count of 350 or less will be eligible for antiretroviral treatment. In essence this means that more people will now be treated earlier, thus decreasing their chances of infecting others. They will also 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 38 of 163 benefit by staying healthier for longer. This will eventually contribute to increased life expectancy, which to date has declined due to HIV and related illnesses. The Department of Health has worked closely with the National Treasury, the World Health Organisation, United Nations Aids, Unaids, and experts to conduct analysis and forecasts on the financial implications of the proposed programme. A well-calculated cost has been developed, which allowed government to include some of the projected costs in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. Consequently, resources have already been made available in the Department of Health budget to cover some of the costs of the programme. We have received additional funding from the President’s Emergency Plan for Aids Relief and Sanac successfully submitted a proposal to the Global Fund requesting a significant amount of resources to fund the purchase of antiretroviral drugs. An additional amount of R244 million will be provided through the national Department of Health to procure the additional commodities required. The Minister of Health and Minister of Finance have also successfully obtained a 53% reduction in the cost of antiretrovirals, ARVs, through a concerted effort and robust engagement with the pharmaceutical industry. This saved government R4,7 billion, which makes it possible to treat more people. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 39 of 163 These initiatives as well as ongoing efforts to maximise efficiencies will enable the costs of the expanded programme to be covered, at least in the short term to medium term. Hon members, the national and provincial departments of health have existing systems to monitor their HIV/Aids and TB programmes and these systems are being strengthened. A three-tier monitoring system is now being implemented, which consists of paper-based monitoring, electronic monitoring and, more importantly, a system linking all provinces. In this regard, I can assure this House that patient confidentiality will not be compromised during the use of these systems. As for the implementation of the expanded programme, the new guideline is effective immediately as of this month and full details of this programme are already in the public domain. Government will continue to interact with the public, stakeholders and practitioners in the field to ensure that relevant details are known to all. I believe that, through our combined efforts and by working together, we can defeat the scourge of HIV and Aids. I thank you for your attention. The SPEAKER: Hon members on my right, please allow the Deputy President to be heard. You are drowning him with your voices. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 40 of 163 Mr N SINGH: Mr Speaker, thank you, and thank you, hon Deputy President, for the response and the initiatives that are being taken. As the IFP, we welcome this announcement, but yet I think there are unintended consequences that may arise. We can put in more money and more tablets to protect the vulnerable, but we find reports such as: When thieves broke into Nonhlahla’s home they took her most valuable possessions, her antiretrovirals, which in urban legend are key ingredients in a narcotic called “whoonga”. Mr Deputy President we know that it is a myth that ARVs are used to produce “whoonga”, but yet drug dealers continue to perpetuate this myth and vulnerable people are being robbed. Criminals attack people who go to clinics to collect “whoonga”. There have been serial murders in KwaZulu-Natal, where people have been killed for ARVs. I would like to know, amongst other things, what would government do to ensure that these people who deserve the treatment are actually protected from these criminals and drug lords? [Time expired.] The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, thank you very much, Mr Singh. Clearly, this is an act of criminality and the law enforcement units have to protect all citizens and not only those who are or may be in possession of ARVs. That’s what we should do as communities and as government to ensure that law enforcement units in this country do 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 41 of 163 away with such elements in our midst and that the correctional services correct them forever. Thank you. Mr P F SMITH: Speaker, I would like to switch the question from treatment to prevention, if I may. Members would know that South Africa is, in fact, on the forefront of HIV prevention research. The Centre for the Aids Programme of Research in South Africa, Caprisa, 2004 study released last year was really internationally acclaimed. It is really important research. Speaker, there is an agreement that we need to fast-track the results of that research because it is so important. The 2004 study was funded by the Americans and partly by the South Africans. The Caprisa 2008 confirmatory study needs to go ahead now. The Americans have put their money on the line and we haven’t. The project is stalled because there is no money. Chairperson, we are in Women’s Month and it is a prevention that empowers women and prevents deaths amongst potentially huge numbers of women. Mr Speaker, the question that I put to the Deputy President is, why are we being so tardy as a country in funding this programme? If the Deputy President doesn’t have the answer now, could he, perhaps, undertake to investigate the matter and revert to us with an answer? Thank you. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 42 of 163 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Speaker, thank you, Mr Smith. Hon members, I do not have the answer right now, but I undertake to investigate and revert to you in writing. Thank you. Mr M WATERS: Speaker, thank you Deputy President for your response. The DA welcomes the continuing expansion of the ARV treatment programme. Deputy President, the recent study by the HIV Prevention Trials Network has revealed that by initiating treatment for HIV- positive people it reduces by 96% the risks of transmission to their partners. Women in South Africa bear the brunt of the HIV/Aids pandemic, which is exacerbated by a patriarchal society where many men do not believe in protective sex. Given that, Sanac is currently developing its 2012 to 2016 national strategic plan conducted in conjunction with the Department of Health and the Department of Finance. This will assist in determining what it would cost if we were to provide every HIV infected person with ARVs in our country and the future savings through reduced infections that that would bring, as well as health costs. Deputy President, if you have not done so, would you give this House the assurance that you would do? Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, thank you very much, Mr Waters. We haven’t done that kind of a study yet. At the moment, as I said, we will only be able to announce the extension of treatment to those with a CD4 count of 350 by 12 August this year. That was based on a 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 43 of 163 costing exercise conducted by the Ministry of Health and by National Treasury. We haven’t gone that far. That is the step that, I suppose, we’ll have to take in the near future. Our effort is really also aimed at ensuring that we reduce new infections through spreading the word and ensuring that we prevent new infections and place more people on treatment - if that is outstripped by the rate of new infections, it means that we are not winning the battle. That is what is preoccupying Sanac at this point in time. Thank you. Particulars regarding awareness of High Level Forum on Aid Effectiveness (HLF4) and support for African Platform for Development Effectiveness (APDev) 6. Prof B Turok (ANC) asked the Deputy President: (1) Whether he has been informed of the forthcoming high-level Forum on Aid Effectiveness (HLF4) convened by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) to be held in Busan, South Korea from 29 November to 1 December 2011; if so, (2) whether the Government has taken any steps to demonstrate support for the African Platform for Development Effectiveness (APDev), which was adopted in Addis Ababa by 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 44 of 163 the African Union, African Development Bank and Nepad on 27 March 2011 and which is to be presented at the Busan Conference; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details; (3) whether the Government has informed the public about its support of this initiative; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details; (4) whether a high-level government delegation will attend the Busan conference; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (5) whether he will invite members of Parliament to be part of the delegation; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO1420E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon members, Prof Turok, yes, I am aware of the High-Level Forum on Aid Effectiveness. Invitations were extended to government by the Embassy of the Republic of Korea in Pretoria in June this year. As members may be aware, the Africa Platform for Development Effectiveness, APDev, was officially launched during the African Union Economic Commission for Africa Joint Annual Meetings of 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 45 of 163 Conference of African Ministers of Finance, Planning and Economic Development in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, on 27 March this year. Though the Minister of Finance was unable to attend the launch, in his response to the invitation he expressed the South African government’s support for multistakeholder dialogue that promotes a unified message for Africa to grow out of aid, enhance domestic resource mobilisation, deepen ownership and promote South-South co- operation. Government intends to inform the public of its support for this initiative through the communication channels that are managed by the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS. The South African government will be represented in Busan by a high-level delegation. Furthermore, the invitation from the Korean Embassy also requests that Members of Parliament and representatives from civil society be included in the South African delegation. The SPEAKER: Before I give the floor to the hon Turok to ask a supplementary question, I want to give an opportunity to Mr Goqwana to ask a question; we inadvertently skipped him. Mr M B GOQWANA: Mr Speaker, I thank the Deputy President; even for the decision that was made. I guess if this was done a year ago, we would have been very worried about the fact that there are inequities in health. However, because the Department of Health has 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 46 of 163 started re-engineering primary health care, which is a precursor to universal coverage, we tend to think that this is going to be able to reach everybody and, obviously, have the intended consequence of making sure that everybody gets antiretrovirals. I guess this is not a question, but a comment. We are very happy that this has been started at a time of universal discussion of universal coverage. Prof B TUROK: Mr Speaker, Deputy President, I am delighted to hear your response. I was present at the launch of the APDev and was very moved by that occasion. I should say that it has taken considerable effort by four of the most important organisations in Africa - the African Development Bank, the African Union, New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad, and the Economic Commission for Africa - to inform the donor countries that Africa’s poverty cannot be overcome by aid alone. Instead, aid can only be a catalyst in home-grown development right across the continent. My question, therefore, is: How can this House best show its political support for the new pan-African approach to donor aid? Can you help us on that? The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I think hon Turok is a true professor; he knows the answer, but he is asking me the question. [Laughter.] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 47 of 163 As I said, the invitation requests of the South African government, should include Members of this Parliament in the delegation. Therefore, I would imagine that in preparing for participation in Busan, the members will have to ponder the question of how best to strengthen intra-Africa trade, beginning with the regional trade within the Southern African Development Community, SADC, itself and also to address the challenge. Aid, as we know, only freezes poverty and dependence. It is, therefore, advisable to explore ways of moving away from dependence on aid. I don’t have a magic formula for that other than that we should use our challenges of social and economic backlogs in South Africa, as well as the rest of the African continent, to create stronger intra- African trade. Thank you. Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, on a point of order: We are battling to hear; the microphone seems to be turned down very low. It’s very difficult to hear what’s being said. The SPEAKER: Would somebody just check the microphone and would everybody speak into their microphones. Mr M B SKOSANA: Mr Speaker and Deputy President, in view of subsection 3, 4 and 5 of question 6 - in the case that the Deputy President answers in the positive, which he did, bearing in mind that aid and the factors that hamper its effectiveness or the 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 48 of 163 passage of that, such as factionalism, armed conflicts, warlordism, corruption, small arms proliferation, bad leadership, lack of co- ordination, are the permanent features of this edifice - should the government not contemplate establishing a permanent and inclusive aid commission or structure or organ, which will deal with aid internationally and nationally? The SPEAKER: The volume has been turned up. If it’s still not audible, you can use the earpieces. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Skosana and hon members, I am sure that, once there are concrete proposals for government to consider, government will no doubt do so. However, at this point in time, the issue, really, is how to ensure that the requisite aid is made available without becoming too dependent on it. As the professor said earlier on, we need to explore and move away from reliance on aid. That’s what the AU, the African Development Bank, ADB, as well as the Commission for Africa are considering at this point in time. Mr K S MUBU: Mr Speaker, Mr Deputy President, In your view, how does the African Platform for Development Effectiveness, APDev, enhance or benefit or, in fact, dovetail with the initiatives that the SADC is currently undertaking for the region, in particular, and for the continent, or is this another duplication of effort by different organisations? However, it is also well known that donor aid has 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 49 of 163 been used corruptly in some countries. Are there measures that the AU has put in place to counter this? Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the African Platform for Development Effectiveness consists of the ADB and the Economic Commission for Africa, and was initiated by Ministers of Finance Planning and Economic Development in Africa, because they realised that African countries who depended mainly – even for their national budgets – on aid will forever be in that position of weakness, despite all the natural resources in Africa. Therefore, this platform is meant for them to compare notes and share perspectives on the effectiveness of the development plans on the continent; that’s really the purpose. The Busan conference will be the second such conference that they participate in. Therefore, it’s really early days; it’s not clear yet as to how effective the platform will be. Thank you. The SPEAKER: Hon Nyamie Booi, the person seated next to you really wants to listen to the Deputy President; you are really interfering with his right to listen. [Interjections.] Mrs C DUDLEY: Speaker, hon Deputy President, in demonstrating support for APDev, what progress, if any, has there been in the development of a database on regional and international commitments in aid effectiveness, south-south co-operation and capacity 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 50 of 163 development for regular updating to facilitate follow-ups? Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, hon Dudley, as I said, these are early days. I am not aware that there is any data that has been developed because our Minister of Finance missed the first meeting. He is most likely to attend the second meeting. Thank you. Particulars regarding any official request by government to Nato to stop bombing of Libya, and any objection to policy in support of regime change in Libya 7. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Deputy President: Whether the Government has officially (a) requested the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) to stop the bombing of Libya that has resulted in the death of civilians and (b) objected to any policy in support of regime change in Libya; if not, why not; if so, what is the Government’s policy with regard to regime change in a sovereign country? NO2508E The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon members, the government of South Africa has said repeatedly that hostilities in Libya need to end, including the bombing by Nato. President Zuma made this point very clearly in his engagements with Prime Minister Cameron of 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 51 of 163 Britain, who recently visited our country, to President Medvedev of Russia, as well as to the Nato secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, when he attended a special meeting in Russia recently. The President as well as the Minister and Deputy Minister of International Relations and Co-operation have consistently spoken out against Nato’s violation of the mandate of UN Security Council Resolution 1973 in seeking regime change and against the resultant loss of civilian lives as it continues its bombing campaign of Tripoli. The South African government has been clear in all engagements on the matter of Libya that it is against regime change and will continue to raise this issue in an attempt to prevent further loss of civilian lives and in seeking the adoption and implementation of the African Union roadmap by all parties involved in the Libyan conflict. Hon member, the AU has made it very clear that the Libyan people must determine their own future through an inclusive process that will ensure a full democratisation of all political institutions. This will allow for macroeconomic recovery and the restoration of normality in Libyan society. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 52 of 163 As hon Meshoe is aware, it is our collective view as leaders in Africa that no illegal removal of a government can be justified, not least through violent means. I thank you. Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon Speaker, apologies from Rev Meshoe, he has asked me to follow up on his behalf. Thank you for the information. It is also our understanding that government is now reluctant to recognise the National Transitional Council. In this regard, South Africa’s offer to help Libya draft its new constitution, to whom would that offer have been made given government’s reluctance in this area? The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the formal recognition of the Transitional Council, hon Dudley, must be seen as a separate matter from the obligation and duty of contributing towards an all- inclusive process involving all Libyans in finding a peaceful and democratic way of moving forward from this current conflict-ridden situation. Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, within the context of the current situation in Libya, the big question would be: What is the position of South Africa with regard to continuing advocating democracy and human rights within Libya, especially ingratiating itself with the Libyans, that is now the general citizenry of Libya, so that we continue to occupy the space? What is the position of South Africa on that, in the language that is understood by the Libyan people? 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 53 of 163 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you, hon Ngonyama. The position of the South African government is in line with that of the AU. The AU roadmap is the only honourable roadmap that would lead to peace, stability and democratisation of all institutions in Libya. Of course, we continue to be in a position to speak to both the people in Benghazi and Tripoli, because the people of Libya, as a people, deserve all the support they can muster and the South African government is willing to play its role in that regard. Thank you. Mr M B SKOSANA: Mr Speaker, it is widely argued, Deputy President, that the International Criminal Court intends charging Col Gaddafi and his associates for crimes against his own people, and possibly charging the rebel contingent for possible violation of human rights. Therefore, in the light of those who perished as a result of the bombings by Nato, who is going to be held lawfully accountable for those atrocities? I know that the Deputy President might simply have a view and not an answer. The SPEAKER: Thank you very much for that view on the view of the Deputy President. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, my tuppence worth of view on this matter is that indeed the UN Security Council resolution, which was aimed at protecting civilians, initially from bombings by the government of Col Muammar Gaddafi, was in a sense overstretched by Nato forces. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 54 of 163 That in itself creates a problem for the UN Security Council and for future interventions. As you are well aware, the situation in Syria is also of grave concern precisely because of this precedent created in Libya. The UN Security Council has not been able to agree on how to intervene in Syria. As you know, in the Security Council there are permanent member states with veto power. So, if they don’t want any resolution to see the light of day they veto it. In Libya, those who did not vote for Resolution 1973 abstained, which allowed the resolution to go through. But because of this precedence it has created very serious doubts in the permanent members of the UN Security Council. Therefore, if the International Criminal Court, ICC, is to act on the basis of concrete information against those who would have been responsible for loss of lives of civilians, it would be very difficult for Nato to justify why and how it came to any conclusion. We know that they are now attempting to create the impression that the rebels are acting on their own regarding attacks in Tripoli, but there are clear links and co-ordination at that level. The question is whether the ICC would have the wherewithal to unearth that information and bring those who are responsible to book, including the Nato commanders on the ground. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 55 of 163 Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, for the ANC, in pursuance of promoting democratic peace, we must all accept that democracies do not go to war with one another, even where democracy does not exist, but continue to push for the dominant mode of the South African view, and that of a negotiated solution for an inclusive government; even as the Minister of International Relations has said, “When the visitors leave Libya, the Africans will remain dealing with the African problems”. What are the challenges, Deputy President, with the implementation of the postconflict strategy, as there will be no successful peacebuilding without socioeconomic or political stability? The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, well, the difficulty really with the current Libyan situation is that nobody knows who these rebels are. They are a potpourri of ethnic groupings because the Libyan situation was very unfortunate in the sense that brother leader, Col Muammar Gaddafi, presided over that country with a small group of military generals – about 11 of them - over all these years. I think five years ago, he even reduced that number to six. So his cabinet, so to speak, consisted of only six members. And the institutions were really tribal institutions. The only advantage is that at least they were able to invest in the education of their citizens. So, there are so many highly educated people in Libya because the state covered the studies of their citizens up to PhD level. Hopefully, because they are educated, one 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 56 of 163 would assume that they are cultured and would see value in dialogue and in finding an inclusive solution. Otherwise, it is really an ethnic community. That is why, when the Gaddafi government started bombing Benghazi, the soldiers who were - even generals - in that army who came from those tribes of Benghazi left the army, because their own tribesmen and children were being bombed and they went back home. Essentially, they need to establish almost from scratch the institutions of democracy. And that is why we believe they need all the assistance they can receive in that direction. Extent of South African involvement in relief efforts in respect of humanitarian crises in Somalia 8. Mr S Mokgalapa (DA) asked the Deputy President: (1) What is the full extent of all South African relief efforts in respect of the current humanitarian crises in Somalia; (2) whether the Government co-operated with any African Union member states in contributing to the relief efforts; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) with which specified countries and (b) what are the further relevant details of the contributions? NO2519E 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 57 of 163 The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, hon Mokgalapa, the South African Government has responded to the humanitarian crises confronting Somalia by raising R8 million towards the famine relief programme, R4 million of which was donated to the Gift of the Givers towards the transportation and logistical costs of delivering aid to Somalia. Furthermore, and in line with South Africa’s foreign policy objective of the consolidation of the African Agenda, the South African government, in partnership with Brand South Africa, has teamed up with the Gift of the Givers, and launched the Somalia Relief Campaign to raise public awareness of the dire situation in Somalia and to galvanise South Africans to make donations for relief efforts in that East African country. The South African government also provided transport in the form of a South African National Defence Force C130 Hercules supply plane to the Gift of the Givers to deliver 18 tons of essential food and antimalaria medication to Mogadishu on 16 August 2011. This latest consignment brings to 120 tons the total aid delivered to Somalia by the Gift of the Givers in a two-week period. In addition, government collaborated with other South African-based organisations that are contributing to the relief work for Somalis in Somalia and in refugee camps in neighbouring countries. These organisations include Islamic Relief South Africa, Africa Muslim 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 58 of 163 Agency, Netcare South Africa, the Al-Imdaad Foundation and the Somali Community Board of South Africa. Members of the South African business community were also motivated to contribute, and food and other essential items were donated. The total amount of the South African contribution, including government and civil society, is difficult to quantify at this stage, but certainly exceeds R20 million. As the hon member is aware, the African Union hosts the Pledging Conference this week in Addis Ababa, where the South African government will make further pledges. Let me use this opportunity to restate that South Africa, SADC and the AU’s position on Somalia is that it is only under conditions of peace, stability and unity that a humanitarian crisis like this can be mitigated. We therefore call on all parties involved to work towards a lasting solution to the political crisis in that country. Once again we thank all individuals and organisations in South Africa that made contributions through various platforms, including the SABC telethon. I thank you. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 59 of 163 Mr S MOKGALAPA: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Deputy President for the reply. I wish also to recognise the efforts of everyone involved. However, the Somali humanitarian crisis is an international source of concern, particularly for Africa. The role of the AU has been very ham-fisted and uncoordinated, due to the fact that there is no humanitarian arm in the AU that specifically deals with such crises. The question therefore is whether you would agree that the AU needs to have a humanitarian agency or arm that will be responsible for dealing specifically with such crises in future, and what the South Africa government is doing to encourage the AU to establish such. Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, I should like to thank hon Mokgalapa. The need for a permanent humanitarian agency no doubt exists, but many of the African countries depend on aid, including aid for their own budgets. Some of them even struggle to pay their dues to the AU. However, that does not mean that such a body or agency should not be established or resources mobilised for such emergencies. I believe this is an idea that can be taken forward through the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. Thank you. Mr K S MUBU: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the Deputy President for the replies. Considering that there is no central government in 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 60 of 163 Somalia, what role has the AU played to ensure that all relief efforts to this country are co-ordinated and that they reach those who really deserve the help? Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, yes, indeed, there is a central government in Somalia. It is an interim government, but it is unable to move out of Mogadishu. Essentially, Somalia is under the control of family warlords. However, despite this tragedy, the relief is able to reach those who need it most, as I said, both inside Somalia as well as in refugee camps in the immediate surrounding neighbour states. So, that part is taken care of because the peacekeeping forces continue to push the warlords back and are able to reach the needy, internally displaced people. Thank you. Mr L S NGONYAMA: Hon Speaker, in appreciating all the efforts the Deputy President has alluded to, is it perhaps not about time for us, in pursuance of the proposal for the special fund that was suggested, to have an extraordinary donor conference that can be dedicated to lessen that famine? Would the government be agreeable to a proposal for such a conference to be organised and maybe make a call to the AU as well? Thank you. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, perhaps we have to suggest to our leaders who would be attending the Pledging Conference this week, 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 61 of 163 also to place this proposal on the table and see what the response would be from other member states. As I have said, a pledging conference has been convened in Addis Ababa for this week. Thank you. The SPEAKER: I thank the hon Deputy President. Hon members, that concludes questions to the Deputy President. Thank you, Deputy President. [Applause.] The next item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to Ministers in the Economic Cluster. Hon members, I have been informed that Question 89 and Question 91, which have been asked by the hon G M Borman and the hon H P Maluleka, respectively, to the Minister of Public Enterprises have been withdrawn. Question 146 has been asked by the hon D T George to the Minister of Finance. ECONOMICS Cluster 4 MINISTERS: Progress in implementation of proposed youth wage subsidy 146. Dr D T George (DA) to ask the Minister of Finance: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 62 of 163 Whether any progress has been made with the implementation of the proposed youth wage subsidy; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2474E The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, the youth employment subsidy discussion paper entitled “Confronting Youth Unemployment: Policy Options for South Africa” was released on Budget day, as we all know. The discussion paper proposed that the youth employment subsidy be implemented from 2012, following a process of consultation that included firstly, discussion between the economic sectors and the employment cluster of the youth employment subsidy, as part of the multipronged strategy to tackle youth unemployment. Secondly, discussions were initiated on the youth employment subsidy and other proposals through the Nedlac process to gather further inputs from social partners. Finally, proposals were made to the Cabinet. Discussions have taken place within the economic sectors and the employment cluster, and consultation with social partners began at Nedlac on 10 May 2011. These discussions are ongoing and, alongside the public comments received on the discussion paper, will inform a revised document. Thank you. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 63 of 163 Dr D T GEORGE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his response. Minister, you are reported to have said that South Africa can only create 4 million jobs by 2025 on our current growth trajectory and that this is not enough to make a dent in unemployment. This is below the New Growth Path objective to create 5 million jobs by 2020. A youth wage subsidy is a fiscal policy intervention to lower the price to employers of new and inexperienced workers, but it will not resolve the problem of unemployment and poverty on its own. Hon Minister, you have said: “We may have to change the labour dispensation in South Africa”. We know that Cosatu does not support the youth wage subsidy. What steps are you taking to ensure that their opposition to it does not prevent its implementation? Thank you. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, the hon George is conceding that, firstly, we do need ambitious targets for job creation in South Africa. Secondly, the whole purpose of the New Growth Path is to set the economy on a trajectory which will enable us to begin to reach out to that kind of ambitious target. Nowhere in the New Growth Path do we suggest that the youth wage subsidy is the only way in which we will get there. There is a host of measures, which include, amongst others, microeconomic and macroeconomic sectoral interventions and the Ipap programme that Min 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 64 of 163 Davies is championing, that will be required to get us to the 5 million jobs. Let us also be very mindful of the global economy and the dynamics that are unfolding there. All of that also will have a serious impact upon growth prospects in South Africa. Exactly what those impacts will be will be determined in the next few months as we get some level of stability within the global situation, if we get there at all. The discussions in Nedlac are aimed precisely at understanding the concerns, some of which are very legitimate, such as: Will workers that are subsidised through the youth wage subsidy replace existing permanent workers in an enterprise? Will there be other unintended consequences? Our appeal to everyone concerned is that the youth wage subsidy is only one instrument amongst many others. There are other strategies being worked upon as well and, finally, if there are design issues as far as youth wage subsidy is concerned, let us sit around the table and find relevant answers. Thank you. Mrs C DUDLEY: Mr Speaker, to the hon Minister, my question is in regard to those unintended consequences that you have just touched on. In implementing the proposals, what monitoring process do you foresee being in place to prevent the growth of businesses whose only rationale is to absorb public money through subsidies, to prevent employers replacing unsubsidised workers, as you mentioned, 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 65 of 163 with the subsidised ones and to prevent the wasting of government money if jobs that would have existed in any event are also subsidised? Thank you. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, these are precisely the kinds of issues that we hope to address through the Nedlac and other processes. Clearly - and I must reiterate this quite emphatically - the intention is certainly not all of the issues that hon Dudley has mentioned as the outcomes of any process like this. However, let me also reiterate that we should not think that the youth wage subsidy is the panacea for the unemployment problems that we have in South Africa. There are many more things we need to do to restructure and reposition our economy. The monitoring mechanisms, in this particular regard, will, certainly, have to ensure that the kind of consequences that the hon member is speaking about are not the outcomes of any of this process. Mr T D HARRIS: Mr Speaker, the Minister is correct in saying that the New Growth Path does not say that the youth wage subsidy is the only way of tackling youth unemployment, mainly because the New Growth Path does not mention the youth wage subsidy. Nevertheless, Mr Speaker, in February this year, National Treasury published the discussion document on the youth wage subsidy 10 months late. The former director-general said that the discussion document appears to 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 66 of 163 present the subsidy as a definite plan which would have been implemented on 1 April, but it was a proposal and not a policy of government. So my question is: Is this a proposal or a policy? Secondly, what are the prospects of Treasury missing their second major deadline on implementation of the youth wage subsidy? The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker, given that we are saying this is one of many proposals before all of us to find solutions to, in particular, youth unemployment in South Africa, there is nothing fatal about missing one or other deadline. The real issue is: how do we accommodate all of the concerns there might be? How do we accommodate alternate ideas that there might be on this particular issue of the youth wage subsidy or anything else? What hon members need to focus their minds on is what alternate proposals we have. What other ideas do we have to create employment in South Africa? Hon members should rather not take this kind of approach, which I don’t think is helpful ultimately. So, in direct response to hon Harris, a lot depends upon the consultation processes as to whether this or any other idea gets off the ground. However, I must reiterate that we share the urgency, that I hope other members share as well, that something needs to get off the ground to ensure that unemployed youth do have better prospects than they have had up to now. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 67 of 163 Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Speaker, through you to the Minister, the ANC would like to understand whether the private sector will be involved in the youth wage subsidy. If so, what criteria will be used to select those companies that will be utilising a subsidy? That is the first one. The second one, within the consultation process, some of the ... The SPEAKER: Hon member, the rule is just one question, not a series of questions. Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Sorry Speaker, it is a follow-up. [Laughter.] It is a continuation. The SPEAKER: Is it a continuation of the follow-up? [Laughter.] Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Yes. [Laughter.] The SPEAKER: Please conclude, hon member. Ms Z S DUBAZANA: Speaker, some of the stakeholders raised an issue that the subsidy might be abused in the sense that the companies will retrench their employees and then employ the youth, to be in a position to utilise the subsidy. Based on that, hon Minister do you have any monitoring measures regarding that? [Time expired.] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 68 of 163 The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Speaker and hon Dubazana, the private sector is involved through the Nedlac process and the criteria will be the willingness of a company to abide by the conditions of the youth wage subsidy. In that sense, the companies will self-select. On the issue of monitoring, I actually answered that question when I responded to the earlier ones. Thank you. Particulars regarding co-operation by department in relation to investigation into awarding of Sishen prospecting rights 137. Mr P D Dexter (Cope) asked the Minister of Mineral Resources: Whether her department is co-operating fully in the investigation with regard to the awarding of Sishen prospecting rights to Imperial Crown Trading; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details with regard to the raid on her office by the Directorate for Priority Crimes Investigation (Hawks)? NO2462E The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, the answer to hon Dexter is that the issue of the Information and Communications Technology, ICT, with Kumba is in court. That particular right is in court right now. When it comes to the issue of the Hawks, I just need to indicate that their action was highly irregular and unacceptable. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 69 of 163 Mr P D DEXTER: Deputy Speaker, is the Minister aware that one of the shareholders in ICT, whose name can be furnished to her, has been implicated in a number of similar cases where mineral rights have been awarded to companies associated with the individual concerned, under similar dubious circumstances? The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Deputy Speaker, hon member, we have a process of how people apply to be involved in the mining industry. We do not count numbers as to how many times they have applied. What we are guided by is the law. In the law, the issues you are raising are in there. I am not aware as to what areas you are referring to wherein the person concerned has been involved. You are better informed, I do not know it. Therefore, I cannot respond to that. So far, what we have is legitimate. You also have the right to apply. We do not look at whether you apply a hundred times, but at whether your application is compliant. That’s what guides us in terms of the law. Adv H C SCHMIDT: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the raid on the office of the department by the Hawks indicates the disastrous state of affairs and the lack of trust in the ability of the department to fulfil its task in issuing mining licences. It does not help you slamming the Hawks. Flowing from the above, will the Minister consider the establishment of an independent 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 70 of 163 regulator to fulfil its tasks, to avoid any raids by the Hawks in future and to ensure the trust in the department is rebuilt? Thank you. The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Deputy Speaker, if the hon member thinks that what has been done by the Hawks was right – he is wrong. They did not only raid our offices as the state, they also raided the state law advisors. What does it mean to you as a Member of Parliament? The state no longer has the right to defend itself. If they also raid your lawyers as an individual, when they are defending you, would you allow the law enforcement agencies to raid those people? It is irregular, because the state law advisors were our legal advisors. That is exactly what we are saying - it is irregular. I do not understand what you mean by the independent regulator. We are the regulator. We are independent from what? Because everything falls within a particular law. You cannot talk about irregular. Mr M F GONA: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, we are wondering in our minds whether the raid by the Hawks was really necessary. Therefore, the questions are: Firstly, did the Hawks request any information from the Department of Minerals and Energy, through either normal government channels or in any other manner whatsoever, before conducting this Hollywood-style raid? 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 71 of 163 Secondly, there is a recent interdict granted by the Northern Cape High Court that bars the usage of the information in the possession of the Hawks or the passing over of that information to Kumba or to other litigants. In your view, does this not suggest any possible collision between the elements within the Hawks and the litigants involved in the current case between government and the Department of Mineral Resources? Thank you. The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I just wanted to indicate to the hon member that the issue he raised about the interdict was indeed irregular. Hon member, you are right, we went to court because it was quite clear that there was some information taken by the Hawks and given to Kumba. That raises a lot of questions about the legitimacy of the raid conducted by the Hawks. When any law enforcement agency raids an institution, it should record and keep that information. So we were surprised that the information was immediately passed on to Kumba. You raised another question about the actions of the Hawks - it is quite clear that they had gone beyond their jurisdiction. Those are some of the issues which make us wonder what the relationship between Kumba and the Hawks, as a law enforcement agency, is. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 72 of 163 Mnu V B NDLOVU: Sekela Somlomo, mhlonishwa uma ngizwa kahle umhlonishwa usho ukuthi ngamanye amazwi, okokuqala, laba ababephenya babefanele ukuba bacele kuyena yini? Okwesibili, ngabe ngizwa kahle uma umhlonishwa ethi bathatha imibuzo yonke bayimikisa kuKumba, asimazi-ke thina uKumba sizwa ngaye umhlonishwa ekhuluma ngaye. Thina sazi ukuthi yilabo abebefanele ukuphenya. Ukuphenya kanti kufanele kutshelwe loyo muntu ofanelwe aphenywe yini? Noma kufanele ukuthi baphenywe labo okufanelwe baphenywe ngoba bayizigebengu? (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.) [Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if I understand you well, in other words you mean that firstly, these people who were investigating were supposed to ask for permission from you? Secondly, I did not quite understand well when you said that they took all the questions and gave them to Kumba - we do not know what Kumba is; we only hear the hon Minister talking about it. What we know is that they were supposed to be investigated. If one is to be investigated, are the investigators supposed to ask permission from the one who is going to be investigated? Or should those who are supposed to be investigated be investigated because they are the criminals.] 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 73 of 163 The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Deputy Speaker, they do not have to ask for permission from me. The protocol says that the Minister of Police was supposed to write to the Minister of Justice, who in turn was supposed to write to me indicating that they required the following information from my department. This did not happen. It was never brought to the attention of the three of us. Siyezwana bab’uNdlovu? Abazange basitshele, abatshelanga muntu. Into abayenzile bahambe bayotshela amaphepha, bazisa abamaphephandaba ukuthi bazohlasela (raid), sayithola naleyo. Okwesibili, uma ubuza ukuthi lokho abakwenzile babenayo imvume na? Njengoba singuhulumeni imvume kufanele ihambe ngendlela efanele, ngendlela yokucela. Uma singavumi, kumele uNgqongqoshe wezoBulungiswa asho ukuthi uzothatha siphi isinqumo. Hhayi bamane batheleke emahovisini kahulumeni benguhulumeni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.) [Do we understand each other, hon Ndlovu? They did not tell us, they told no one. They informed the press that they were going to raid; we also got that one. Secondly, are you asking whether they had permission to do what they did? As the government, the permission should follow the correct protocol of requesting. When we do not give permission, the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development must say which decision he is 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 74 of 163 going to take. Not to just burst into the government’s offices whilst they are government themselves.] Particulars regarding contribution by department to Witsand integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-Cost Optimisation housing initiative in Atlantis and Kuyasa Projects in Western Cape 118. Mr S J Njikelana (ANC) asked the Minister of Energy: (1) Whether her department contributes to the (a) Witsand integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-Cost Optimisation (iEEECO) housing initiative in Atlantis, and (b) Kuyasa Projects in the Western Cape; if not, what is the position in this regard, if so, (i) what type of contribution does her department make in each case and (ii) what is the envisaged duration of her department's contribution in each case; (2) whether any impact resulted from her department's contribution; if not, what is the position in this regard, if so, what are the relevant details; (3) whether her department identified any lessons during its contribution to the specified projects; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2437E 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 75 of 163 The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank hon Sisa Njikelana for the question. The question is in relation to the matters related to the integrated Energy Environment Empowerment – Cost Optimisation, iEEECO. I just want to say that the department has never been requested to participate in the Witsand iEEECO project. With regard to the Kuyasa project, the answer is: Yes, the Designated National Authority, DNA, within the Department of Energy issued a letter of approval to Kuyasa in 2005. A letter of approval is a prerequisite for any project that wishes to participate in the Clean Development Mechanism, CDM, under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC. The rules and procedures governing the CDM require a letter of approval from the DNA of the host country, which confirms that the project’s activity assists the country in achieving sustainable development. This was a once-off process from the department and the project could receive the Certified Emission Reductions, CERs, if its performance gets approval from the executive board. The accreditation period for this project is seven years. To part two of the question, the answer would be, indirectly, yes. Please note that the DNA does not provide any financial support to projects. It does, however, provide technical support relating to the clarification on CDM rules and procedures. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 76 of 163 Kuyasa was the first South African CDM project to be registered and also the first gold standard project in the world. In 2008, the DNA nominated Kuyasa for the UNFCCC CDM International Photo Contest 2008 under the theme “Changing Lives”, which it subsequently won. It received capital grants from the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs and the provincial government Department of Housing. The project has retrofitted 2 310 houses with solar water heaters, insulated the ceilings and provided electrical wiring and compact fluorescent light bulbs. The greenhouse gas emission reductions are estimated to be approximately 2,8 tons per household per year over a period of seven years. The project will generate income from the sale of carbon emission reduction certificates. A ton of certified emission reduction can be traded at approximately 10 to 13 euros on the spot market. With regard to part three, the department has noted some lessons from this project and the project can be replicated throughout the country. Kuyasa has created a focus of attention for dealing with renewable energy in households and throughout the country. Another similar project called the Sassa Low Pressure Solar Water Heater Programme was registered by the CDM executive board on 12 April 2011. A number of projects are underway, including the Cosmo City solar water heating project of the City of Johannesburg, the 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 77 of 163 Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality and the Ekurhuleni Municipality solar water heating projects. These projects are also benefiting from the energy efficiency and demand side management fiscal allocations. Thank you. Mr S J NJIKELANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I must thank - through you - the hon Minister. Even my follow-up question has been answered. All I can do is to commend her on the work that the department has done. This actually highlights the need for us to introduce energy efficiency practices in housing. Thank you very much. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Njikelana; that was not a question. I call upon hon Mazibuko. Mr D C ROSS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am sure it is Ross. I think the microphones have just been mixed up, thank you. I will ask the question on behalf of hon Mazibuko. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will not start with that different microphones thing, huh? Mr D C ROSS: Yes, we hope it will be sorted out, Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you. May I proceed? The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 78 of 163 Mr D C ROSS: Thank you for your response, hon Minister. Recognising the progress in this wonderful project, I think many of the questions I had in mind have already been answered. Let me just ask whether the department still has plans to extend these projects outside the Western Cape - as you have indicated - because of the progress. Do you, perhaps, have any targets set for the department to be involved in these projects, as you have mentioned that the department has not been involved? Could the Minister also confirm – and I think you have made a confirmation of 310 houses – but how many houses were built, specifically, in Atlantis and Kuyasa; and what was the cost, approximately, per home because that would be interesting? Could you also, perhaps, give an indication regarding the total cost of the project? With regard to the lessons learned, Madam Minister, I thank you. I think this is very important as this project optimises the potential for harvesting solar and wind as renewable energy projects. I thank you. The MINISTER OF ENERGY: Deputy Speaker, thank you for the question from Mr Mazibuko-Ross ... [Laughter.] ... Mr Ross, as I have indicated in my response, it is our intention to use the lessons learned from Kuyasa, because, as you would have realised, there is an integrated energy solution for households, through which we could be able to make sure that South African households or houses are energy efficient or have an integrated energy solution in future. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 79 of 163 Let me just indicate that the Department of Energy, together with the Department of Trade and Industry, is finalising the building construction regulations. These regulations will determine that each and every unit built in South Africa, irrespective of whether it is a house or an industrial building, needs to have an integrated energy solution; for example, gas for cooking and space heating, as well as for other related heating services in a particular establishment. However, solar water heating, in particular, is very important; especially if you look at our hospitality industry. We have already engaged with the Department of Tourism to make sure that they engage the Tourism Grading Council so that energy efficiency becomes one of the criteria to determine the grading of establishments. However, you must also remember that we have indicated that we need to reduce our over-reliance on electricity from the grid to make sure that it is only the lights and other appliances that consume electricity from it. I just need to indicate that I did arithmetic, but I am unable to quickly calculate what 2,8 tons per household for 2 310 households could turn into in seven years. I will give myself an opportunity to calculate that and give you the necessary response. Thank you very much. Progress made regarding job creation 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 80 of 163 94. Mr N Singh (IFP) asked the Minister of Economic Development: Whether any progress has been made regarding the creation of jobs, with specific reference to the New Growth Path plan; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2404E The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, in 12 months - up to the end of June this year - 64 000 new jobs were created. In the nine-month period since the release of the New Growth Path document, namely from the end of the third quarter of last year, 150 000 new jobs were created. After seven consecutive quarters of year-on-year job losses, we have now had two quarters of consecutive year-on-year job growth. If we break this down in more detail, using 1 October 2010 as the starting point, we see that the size of the total labour force – that is the employed and unemployed - grew significantly, particularly in the first two quarters of this year. We had about 200 000 people entering the labour market in each of the first two quarters of this year. Secondly, the formal sector employment grew by about 155 000 persons, while the informal sector grew by 41 000 persons over that period. But agriculture declined quite sharply by 42 000 jobs. The pace of job growth has slowed down in the most recent quarter. Since the release of the New Growth Path, government has taken a number of steps to ensure that we address the challenge of jobs. In 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 81 of 163 the time available, I can only give a few examples on agriculture and in agro-processing. For example, a number of large agro- processing projects have been announced - a seed crushing plant in Mpumalanga. This will create up to 4 000 job opportunities in agriculture. A chicken farming project in the Free State has also been announced, and it has an employment of about 800 persons. In speeding up the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme with 65 sites and 7 500 young persons who were taken up in this programme, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, has set aside R7,7 billion for investment in the agricultural value chain. Similarly, we can give examples in mining and beneficiation and manufacturing in the green economy. I will be very happy to pass this information to the hon member. Thank you. Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon Minister for the response and the initiatives that have been taken to ensure that more jobs are created. Hon Minister, I have a report which says that South Africa’s unemployment rate rose marginally to 25,7% in the second quarter. More and more people are becoming unemployed, whilst in certain areas, yes, you may be creating jobs. I think the challenge, Minister - and I need a response from you - is that, whilst economic growth predictions may suggest that we will get a higher percentage in growth – the Minister of Finance may be able to confirm this - it is not commensurate with growth in jobs. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 82 of 163 Maybe we will get more people - 3% or 3,5% of economic growth - but this is not commensurate with jobs. Both the Ministers in the Presidency: National Planning Commission and in Finance have recently called for - and I want to be more exact with this - more jobs-friendly legislation. We have not heard you saying anything about that, Mr Minister, and I would like to know if you have a view on that particular statement or on a call for this. Thank you. The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me start with the first part of the follow-up question. I think what we need to see with the job numbers is something very important. The size of the labour force is growing dramatically. We had job growth on a quarterly basis, but not fast enough. We don’t have enough job growth to take account of the inadequate labour force. Coming to the second issue, I think Minister Gordhan has given a comprehensive reply to the question of youth employment. If one wants to deal with labour market issues, there are three remarks I want to make. The first one is that we need more than labour market measures. We need a comprehensive response, and we need to set it out in the New Growth Path - tackle monopoly pricing and concentration ownership, address skills challenges in the economy and deal with infrastructure issues. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 83 of 163 Secondly, we need to clearly define the labour market measures. What are those measures? We have an option of concentrating on building partnerships and tackling the productivity challenges of our country, or alternatively of starting a major industrial conflict over this or that piece of legislation. What government is focusing on is how to build a common vision in this country and how to unite everybody around a productivity vision. This goes to the third point. Ultimately we are not going to resolve these issues in a piecemeal way. For that we need a social accord that brings together organised labour, the business community and government and places difficult issues on the table - wages, executive pay, prices and jobs. That is the approach we are taking as government; that is the view set out in the New Growth Path; and that is the view all my colleagues are propagating in their public comments. Thank you. Mr G B D MC INTOSH: Deputy Speaker, with specific reference to the national growth path, has the hon Minister applied his mind on how the benefits offered by the African Growth and Opportunity Act can add value to the national growth path? In seeking partners - he has just been talking about a social compact or an accord and support for the New Growth Path - has the hon Minister sought to meet with the senior management of Walmart and make them aware of the competitive advantages given under the African Growth and Opportunity Act for sourcing consumer products manufactured in 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 84 of 163 Africa and in South Africa? Since the Minister is here with his formidable troika that is pushing this national growth path, perhaps we should ask them if they, together as a troika, have sought to build a positive and constructive relationship with Walmart to build jobs for South African manufacturing. The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, I will let the members of the troika speak for themselves. Let me say that on the African Growth and Opportunity Act we do see opportunities. Therefore, we are lobbying strongly for the extension of the African Growth and Opportunity Act. We are also seeking revision on some of the provisions of the African Growth and Opportunity Act to benefit South African manufacturing. Let me deal with the Walmart issue. The simplest answer to this is that indeed we met with the management of Walmart on more than one occasion, and we have engaged them precisely on this issue. The issue was on how one can make sure that their entry to South Africa helps to increase the total number of jobs in our economy, both by them procuring locally and by them incorporating South African companies in the global supply chain. But there is a tough issue. No country has ever been able to create sustainable wealth, jobs and prosperity based on consumption only. You cannot shop your way to wealth and jobs. You have to produce, 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 85 of 163 have factories, have agricultural products and beneficiate your mining products. Therefore, if Walmart wants to come to South Africa, it has to partner with us. It also has to procure from South African companies. We cannot afford an industrial wasteland with many factories closing because we built a super highway between South Africa and other Asian countries. There has to be a focus on South African jobs. That is the priority of this government. I hope it is the priority of this august House. Thank you. [Applause.] Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, is there any process in place to monitor fluctuations of investment and the migration of skilled workers as a result of this growth path? If so, what methods and results have been seen so far, and if not, what are the reasons? The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, hon member, government does look at the flow of investment as well as the stock of investment in the economy. The information is published regularly in the quarterly bulletin of the Reserve Bank. Recently there was quite a bit of publicity around the world investment report of United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, Unctad, that looked at investment flows into South Africa. It is important to contextualise that investment by its nature is lumpy. In other words, it does not go in a smooth curve. If you have a major transaction, for example a Standard Bank transaction where a major foreign bank takes equity in the bank, suddenly your Foreign Direct Investment, FDI, will rise significantly. If you don’t have the same 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 86 of 163 transaction next year, it will drop suddenly. We do monitor this. This is a very important part of the work that the National Treasury and the Reserve Bank do and that Cabinet applies its mind to from time to time. On the question of skills, in the New Growth Path we particularly call for a different regime in encouraging skilled immigration into South Africa. That has to be complemented with retaining our own skills base. You can go to Dubai and you will see a marvel of South African engineering and South African skills that have transformed the economy. So, part of what we need to do is to ensure, through active and dynamic economic activity, that we seek to encourage the New Growth Path and create an opportunity for skilled South Africans to deploy more of their talents domestically. Thank you. Mr L S NGONYAMA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if we take the comments from the Minister of Finance - the teacup comments - he said the target of five million jobs by 2020 that has been set is difficult to reach or is unreachable. This means the target is completely off the table. He went on to say that a target of only four million will be reached by 2025. What is your comment on that, Mr Minister? The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, let me start by correcting the hon Smuts. I would encourage him to read the 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 87 of 163 speech by the hon Minister of Finance, who clearly did not say that the target won’t be reached or that the target should be changed. In fact, the Minister of Finance indicated that it will be a challenge to reach the target if we do things the way we have always done. That goes to the heart of what we seek to do. We have to change the way in which the state works, the private sector and so on. I think what the Minister of Finance indicated in the speech is a number of measures in the New Growth Path that need to be implemented with urgency and with focus. I hope that addresses the one issue. I do wish to conclude with the comment that the five million jobs target was always a stretch target. It is necessary. It is a stretch target in a society with high levels of unemployment. That requires, as I indicated in the reply to an earlier question, a national consensus on how we move forward and some agreements between government and partners in the wealth-creating machinery of the economy, business and labour. Thank you very much. Mrs D R TSOTETSI: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I have pressed my thing here. I am not sure if it is working well. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is working well. I didn’t call you because we were already over four follow-up questions. We are now on another question. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 88 of 163 Mrs D R TSOTETSI: There is a question for Minister Patel. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member. We have called all the speakers who wanted to ask Mr Patel a question - all four of them. Mrs D R TSOTETSI: I did press here. That is why I’m saying I’m not sure if this thing is working. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is working. Your name was here. But it was not amongst the four that pressed their buttons first. If you want to speak, you have to press your button first so that you can be within the first four. That is the Rule of this House. Particulars regarding requested supplementation of Transnet’s Second Defined Benefit Fund, and any steps to be taken to pay out increases to pensioners forthwith 133. Adv A de W Alberts (FF Plus) asked the Minister of Finance: (1) Why has National Treasury not yet given effect to Parliament’s request for his department to supplement Transnet’s Second Defined Benefit Fund in the amount of R1,9 billion; (2) whether he, in co-operation with Transnet, will be taking any steps to pay out increases to pensioners forthwith, 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 89 of 163 because Transnet is unwilling to make the money for the payment of increases available immediately, but first wants to use the fund’s surplus for disbursements; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2458E The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, the response to the first part of the question is that when the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises resolved on 2 November 2010 that a cash injection of R1,964 billion be provided to the Transnet Second Defined Benefit Fund to cover an ex gratia payment of five months, pension, a base upliftment of 3,21% and 75% of Consumer Price Index, CPI, and an annual increase going forward on the 3,21% uplifted base, it was recognised that a funding solution still needed to be finalised. The Minister of Finance has met with the Minister of Public Enterprises and reached agreement that Transnet will be responsible for providing all of the funding. To effect this decision, it requires the following process be followed: firstly, the rules need to be amended and drafted accordingly; secondly, approval of the rule amendments by the board of trustees together with support from the actuaries; thirdly, approval of the rule amendments by the board of directors of Transnet; fourthly, approval of the rule amendments by the Minister of Public Enterprises, together with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance; and lastly, rule amendments to be gazetted, at which time the amended increase policy can be implemented. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 90 of 163 The response to the second part, as highlighted in the answer above, is that the additional financing required for the payment to the pensioners over and above the existing funds surplus is to be provided by Transnet. Payments can be effected once the pension funds governance process, as outlined above, has been completed. Thank you. Dr S M VAN DYK: Chairperson, the DA welcomes the statement by the Minister of Finance, although this process has taken longer than it should have. It is vital that those pensioners who have been suffering in the absence of appropriate pension increases receive relief as soon as possible. According to the resolution taken by Parliament in November last year, Transnet pensioners should be given a lump sum back pay equal to five months’ pension and annual increases calculated at 75% of CPI on an increased basic pension amount. The DA welcomes the statement that the Minister made today. Thank you. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, we welcome the support and, secondly, the fact that this matter might have taken longer than one anticipated is certainly not in our hands, so we regret that. Dr G W KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, I think the absence of the Freedom Front Plus in the House is an indication of how important they view this issue. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 91 of 163 I will not ask a question but just make the following statement. This issue is currently not before Parliament or the executive or National Treasury. Transnet has already reported to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises that they received a letter from the Minister of Public Enterprises in April 2011. The Transnet board met in June 2011 and instructed the management to find a funding solution based on the report from Parliament. This is now a matter to be addressed between Transnet and the board of trustees of the two pension funds. Transnet, as the Minister has indicated, has already committed itself to cover any deficit. The administrative and statutory processes now need to be completed as soon as possible, as a matter of urgency. Thank you. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you hon member. That was a comment, hon Minister. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Vacant? [Laughter.] Seats press themselves. There’s a vacant seat that just pressed the button. Dr G W KOORNHOF: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I already made my statement. You already gave me the opportunity, and I just made the statement to the Minister. Thank you. Measures to ensure blacklisting of service providers and company directors who have defrauded the state 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 92 of 163 98. Dr Z Luyenge (ANC) asked the Minister of Finance: Whether the National Treasury has any measures in place to ensure that service providers and directors of companies who defrauded the state are blacklisted; if not, why not; if so, what measures? NO2409E The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the question makes reference to whether there are measures in place to ensure that service providers and directors of companies who defraud the state are blacklisted. There are basically two provisions under which such activities can be undertaken by the National Treasury, and I am going to outline them briefly. The first is section 28 of the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Act of 2004, which prescribes that, when a court convicts a person of an offence in respect of corrupt activities relating to contracts, or to the procuring and withdrawal of tenders, the court may rule that the name of such persons, directors or other persons who wholly or partially exercise control over the enterprise, be endorsed on the Register for Tender Defaulters. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 93 of 163 The National Treasury must determine the period – which may not be less than five years and not more than 10 years – for which the particulars of the convicted persons or enterprises must remain on the Register for Tender Defaulters. During such period, the public sector may not conduct business with such a person. The second instance arises from the Preferential Procurement Regulations, as well as the general conditions of contract. This empowers an accounting officer or authority to restrict an enterprise or its directors, trustees, or shareholders, for a period not exceeding 10 years, if such enterprise did not fulfil the conditions of contract, or has been engaged in corrupt or fraudulent practices, in competing for, or in executing, the contract. In such cases, the accounting officer or authority must follow the audi alteram partem rule which, in English, means hear the other side, when informing the person of the intention to restrict him or her. The person concerned must be afforded an opportunity to provide reasons why such restrictions should not be imposed. When an enterprise or person is restricted by an accounting officer or authority, the National Treasury must be informed accordingly and the names of the enterprises or persons are endorsed on the database of restricted suppliers, which is maintained by the National Treasury. Both the Register of Tender Defaulters and the database of 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 94 of 163 restricted suppliers have been made public and are available on the National Treasury’s website. All spheres of government and Schedule 3A, 3C and municipal entities, are required to verify the status of recommended bidders, in order to ensure that no recommended bidders that are listed as companies prohibited from doing business with the public sector, do so. Adherence to this prescript also forms part of the Auditor- General’s annual audit. Thank you. Dr Z LUYENGE: Madam Deputy Speaker, in appreciation of an elaborate and splendid response by the Minister, I will, on behalf of the ANC, suggest that the hon Minister apply certain methods in order to ensure that the applicability of this notion is actually visible at the lower levels of governance. Thank you very much for the response. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, let me thank the hon Luyenge for his suggestion; we will discuss with him and others what ideas they have for higher visibility. One of the challenges, in the first instance, with regard to the tender defaulters, is that it is a court of law that must make the decision, and where that decision is not explicitly made in the judgment, if you like, that is passed by a court of law, no name can 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 95 of 163 be put on any register. That is one of the difficulties in having a very short list of names in respect of tender defaulters. Thank you. Dr D T GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, the Tender Default Register was empty for a long time and it has only recently featured the names of some of those who have defrauded the state. As you mentioned, it is only after the court orders it necessary, that a name is placed on the register. Are you considering an amendment to the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Act, to require automatic entry to the register in the event of a tender default? If so, please provide relevant details. If not, why not? Thank you. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: We will certainly have a look, hon Deputy Speaker, at the hon George’s suggestion. I think the one reason we would be cautious about that, is that you cannot erroneously put somebody’s name onto a register and then carry the liability that goes with wrongful decisions. That is why we place the trust in a court of law to make that decision. We will look at other ways of ensuring that defaulters do not benefit from any further business with the state. Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, may I perhaps ask the Minister whether he can tell us, off the cuff, how many names have been placed on the register? 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 96 of 163 The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, off the piece of paper rather than the cuff, it would appear that there are two names on the list of tender defaulters that I have in front of me, and a list of almost 3 pages – that I assume amounts to probably 50 to 60 names – in respect of the restricted suppliers. Particulars regarding policy in terms of which a moratorium on foreign land ownership has been called for 161. Ms L D Mazibuko (DA) asked the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform: (1) With reference to his reply to question 1354 on 1 August 2011 in which he states that no official data exists on the percentage of land owned by foreigners and that less than 1% of state-owned land is currently leased to foreigners, in terms of which policy has his department called for a moratorium on foreign land ownership; (2) whether his department has undertaken a feasibility study to determine the viability of placing a moratorium on foreign land ownership before the policy was proposed; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant detail NO2489E The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Deputy Speaker, the response to the first part of the question asked by the 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 97 of 163 hon Mazibuko is that the department has not called for a moratorium on foreign land ownership. Therefore, the second one falls away. Thank you. Ms L D MAZIBUKO: Madam Deputy Speaker, Minister Nkwinti, we know that the last time that the ANC government had plans to limit foreign ownership of land, one of your predecessors, the Minister of Land Affairs, Thoko Didiza, commissioned a study which found that only 5% of land was foreign-owned in 2004. As a consequence of these results, she abandoned plans to limit foreign ownership. Given your recent remarks, in June this year, in which you said that government would, nevertheless, be pursuing a policy of “precarious tenure” to restrict land ownership by foreign nationals, and given your Deputy Minister’s remark that government wishes to “guard against the danger that prime land in South Africa gets snapped up by foreigners as this would push up prices”, have you instituted or do you plan to institute a research study to establish how much land is foreign-owned, as was done by your predecessor, and to assess the risks and the benefits to the rural economy of such a policy proposal? If not, why not; and, if so, what are the relevant details? The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Deputy Speaker, the hon member is correct. None of my predecessors implemented the recommendations of the panel. So, part of what we are doing now is 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 98 of 163 actually looking at that before we can do any further study. We have looked at that report and we are convinced that we need to implement some of the recommendations of that report. Secondly, you could not implement a tenure reform system and leave them out because they are foreigners and they bring in foreign investment. They have to fall into the same context within which we will be operating and implementing land reform. Thank you. Mrs N T NOVEMBER: Deputy Speaker, thank you Minister for your response. Are there other measures in place to deal with this matter and what are the implications for the broader pro-poor policy development? If this is left unattended, are there any security implications for the country? Do developed countries open their land to ownership by foreigners? Thank you. The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Deputy Speaker, the answer is no. Every country has measures to protect its national assets, including land - particularly land. So, we should not be an exception to that. Secondly, we find it interesting that actually people who are non- South African citizens but are residents here have no objection to this because in their own countries this is happening. I think that they have been surprised that in this country we do not yet have this kind of measure to protect our own assets. Thank you. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 99 of 163 Mrs A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, thank you Minister for the information. Minister, it does not help to beat about the bush here. The important question for us all to know, and especially for South Africans and possible investors, is: When are we going to get this much-talked-about Green Paper that must be released? In the leaked version, we saw this proposal of precarious tenure and other issues that need to be dealt with. Some of these have already been implemented, like the plough system. Minister, I just want to know if you can tell us when we can expect this Green Paper. We have been waiting patiently since last year. The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: It was approved today by Cabinet for public comment. [Applause.] Mrs C DUDLEY: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, as there is no official data in existence, what unofficial data are you referring to in your references to policy-making in this regard? Two of the nation’s leading real estate agents are quoted as saying that, over the past 12 months, less than 5% of all property sales concluded by both of them have gone to non-national buyers, making reasons for targeting foreign land ownership obscure or less obvious. Can you elaborate on this? The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon Dudley is quite correct; that is exactly the point. The point that she is making when she says official data does not 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 100 of 163 exist and, therefore, formulating policy becomes a problem, is exactly the challenge we are faced with in the department. That is why we have put together a national reference group which includes farmers and intellectuals - that’s commercial and emerging farmers - and all of them to sit with us and discuss exactly that point because we have got various databases which are different in content. So, we want to have one database for the country so that we can formulate policy properly. That is the problem. Particulars regarding applications for special pensions 127. Mr D D van Rooyen (ANC) asked the Minister of Finance: (a) How many applications for special pensions has his department received since 1 April 2011, (b) how many had been processed as at the latest specified date for which information is available and (c)(i) what challenges has his office encountered in this regard and (ii) in which areas? NO2451E The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, submissions of special pensions applications closed on 31 December 2010. Therefore, no applications from people applying in their own right were received since 1 April 2011. However, a total of 1 978 applications were received after the closing date of 31 December 2010 and were declared as late 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 101 of 163 applications. A total of 9 924 applications were received from the under-35 group since January 2009, ending 31 December 2010. The number of applications processed as at the end of July 2011 is 7 185. The remaining number of 2 739 applications are still at a political verification and research level. Most of the applications received by December 2010 were incomplete, as applicants were only submitting these forms to meet the closing date deadline. A total of 5 667 applications were received in December 2010. Only 3 440 of these applicants were from Africans that were under the age of 30 or over the age of 35, and do not qualify now. These applications came from all provinces. Thank you. Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, in the spirit and the letter of the clarion call by uMkhonto weSizwe veterans, I would really like to commend the Minister and the Ministry for the work that they have done hitherto. Minister, it has been brought to our attention that some of the applications have been declared dormant mainly because applicants can’t be traced. Now, I was just wondering whether, instead of relying on directly engaging applicants, you won’t consider using political organisations of the affected applicants to trace them so that this process can be completed appropriately. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 102 of 163 The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon van Rooyen, we are certainly in touch, as far as I am aware, with the various political organisations. However, if there is any specific recommendation that will help us to expedite these matters, please feel free to guide us. Thank you very much. Dr D T GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, the aim of the special pension is to compensate those who were unable to accumulate pension benefits, given their participation in the struggle for democracy in South Africa. Is there an ongoing process to evaluate the financial means of a special pension recipient to ensure that those who no longer acquire assistance no longer receive the pension? If so, please provide the relevant details; if not, why not? Thank you. The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, this process is still pretty much incomplete. However, I think that the idea of an ongoing assessment is a good one. It will assist us in ensuring that funds from this fund are used in an appropriate way. I will enquire whether there are any further details that we could supply to hon George and then let him have them. Thank you. Particulars regarding plan to rectify current backlog of company registrations 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 103 of 163 97. Ms S P Lebenya-Ntanzi (IFP) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry: (1) Whether he and his department have a strategic plan in place in order to rectify the current backlog of company registrations at the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission (CIPC); if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details; (2) what (a)are the details of the current size of the backlog and (b) is the expected time required to (i) deal with and (ii) reduce the backlog? NO2408E The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, the process of registering companies to require limited liability status is the first step towards participating in economic activity, and it is therefore imperative that it takes place smoothly and efficiently. The Companies and Intellectual Property Commission is an autonomous commission responsible for its own administration, but reporting to the Minister of Trade and Industry. I have interacted on a number of occasions with them about some of the challenges and problems that they are facing. Earlier this week, I went on a walkabout to engage with staff and to see some of the issues and the progress they were making. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 104 of 163 The main issue is that, since the formation of the commission and entry into force of the new Companies Act, there has been a significant increase in company registrations under way. This took place against the background of some backlogs arising from the old Companies and Intellectual Property Registration Office. The question does provide a table showing the status of implementation of various transactions during the course of August up until 18 August. I think that this shows some significant progress in some areas. For example, name registration is a very important part of the process. Under the new Companies Act, it is not necessary to register a name, but many companies do. The number of transactions outstanding at the beginning of August was 31 108; 10 004 applications were received up until 18 August and 37 220 applications were processed, leaving only 3 892 on 18 August. Similar progress was reported with respect to amendments to companies, where the number of the backlog went down from 19 000 to only 450. The challenges still remain in company registrations and also with co-operative registrations. What is happening is that the leadership of the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission is now deploying additional resources to try to unblock those particular blockages. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 105 of 163 The commission has been mandated to prepare a full update and to table this at a meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on 13 September. They are well aware that we, together with Parliament, are expecting that there will be further significant progress by that time. Thank you very much. Ms S P LEBENYA-NTANZI: Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you hon Minister for a response to my question. My follow-up question will be: Do you think that the decentralisation of the commission into provincial offices might assist with the current high volume backlog of company registrations; and has your department explored the merits or otherwise of this option? Thank you. The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think that at this point, the basic challenge is to get some of the processes at head office going to the point where we can start to say backlogs are cleared and that we are now beginning to move further forward. The next phase, as I see it, is that we are going to start to establish some benchmarks in terms of the amount of time it takes to register companies and things like that. We will certainly explore the way in which decentralisation may assist, but one of the important points is that, under the new Companies Act, it is quite possible to register electronically. Therefore, it is not as necessary to have as many decentralised offices as it might have been under the older systems. Thank you. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 106 of 163 Mr T D HARRIS: Deputy Speaker, it is difficult to overstate just how bad the situation was at the commission when the committee went there. They were registering about 2 400 registrations in the first two months. With the Companies and Intellectual Property Registration Office, Cipro, we were registering around 6 000. Nevertheless, we take the Minister’s words as encouragement. Minister, one of the main problems at the commission is the fact that of the 1 600 calls that the call centre receives every week, about 1 100 of them go unanswered. We were told that this is because they have a shortage of 30 call centre seats in their call centre, and we were told that they did not have space at the DTI campus to put in 30 more seats. My question is: Will you as Minister approve additional space on the campus for that call centre, or alternatively allow the commission to contract out some call centre capacity, perhaps down here to some of our call centres in the Western Cape? Thank you. The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I think the first part of this is that in all these areas of blockage, including the call centre, they have been employing more people. The question of space in the longer term needs to be resolved by CIPC moving off campus. They are aware that that is what we are expecting of them. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 107 of 163 In the medium term they need to find new premises off campus, but in the meantime, we are doing what we can to try to accommodate them in all the various areas. We do see this as a priority piece of work. Mr N E GCWABAZA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC, is only three and half months old. Therefore, it was expected that it would experience teething problems, given the challenges it inherited from Cipro. However, Minister, now that the Valour-IT problem has been resolved, could you explain how this is going to assist CIPC to improve the processing of registering new companies as well as addressing the backlog speedily and effectively? The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think that regarding the point about moving speedily to the new commission and putting in place a new leadership and a new commission, the data has actually been vindicated by the statistics that have just been given. If we had set a longer period and hoped that we were going to resolve all the problems under the old Cipro, we would have been in more serious trouble than we are in now. So I believe that the leadership in CIPC, the commission of the Deputy Commissioner and other staff members are now working much more effectively than Cipro ever worked. They have identified a number of the problems and so on. Regarding the point you make about 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 108 of 163 the Valour-IT, well, I think one of the things that they are looking at is whether the type of software, the Enterprise Content Management System, is in fact what they need. The issue of Valour-IT means that now there is no legal or other barrier to them acquiring whatever software they need to acquire. They can go ahead and acquire whatever software they need to. However, what they are looking at is whether the choices that were made under the old Cipro and under that contract are the correct ones, or whether there are other alternatives. They are seriously looking at other alternatives in a technical sense. Thank you. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the time allocated for Questions has expired. I only had two speakers here. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard. See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES. The House adjourned at 17:59. ________ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS FRIDAY, 19 AUGUST 2011 ANNOUNCEMENTS 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 109 of 163 National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson 1. Calling of Joint Sitting CALLING OF A JOINT SITTING OF PARLIAMENT The Speaker of the National Assembly, Mr M V Sisulu, and the Acting Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Ms T C Memela, in terms of Joint Rule 7(2), have called a joint sitting of the Houses of Parliament for Tuesday, 23 August 2011 at 14:00 to conduct a debate on National Women’s Day. M V SISULU, MP T C MEMELA, MP SPEAKER OF THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 110 of 163 (a) Government Notice No R. 580 published in Government Gazette No 34458 dated 15 July 2011: Amendment of Regulations relating to the Attorneys Fidelity Fund in terms of the Attorneys Act, 1979 (Act No 53 of 1979). 2. The Minister of Science and Technology (a) Report of the Research and Development Tax Incentive Programme for 2009-2010. MONDAY, 22 AUGUST 2011 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson 1. Assent by President in respect of Bills (1) State Liability Amendment Bill [B 2B – 2011] – Act No 14 of 2011 (assented to and signed by President on 21 August 2011). TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 111 of 163 1. The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development (a) Report dated 15 August 2011 on the suspension from office of Magistrate D Jacobs, a magistrate in Clocolan, tabled in terms of section 13(4)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993). 2. The Minister of Police (a) Training Courses on Sexual Offences and Related Matters Developed in terms of section 66, and tabled in terms of section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007). COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly 1. REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING ON ITS OVERSIGHT VISIT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF LIMPOPO AND INDLELA DATED 17 AUGUST 2011 The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, having undertaken an oversight visit to the University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) and Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments (Indlela) on 29 June – 01 July 2011 reports as follows: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 112 of 163 1. Introduction The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training undertook an oversight visit to the University Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) as part of its ongoing oversight visits to institutions of higher learning. The purpose of the oversight visit was primarily to interact with the above mentioned institution on critical issues such as admissions policy, enrolment planning, merger processes, transformation plan, student access and success, challenges of student accommodation in residences as well as those experienced by student leadership at higher education institutions. The Committee further visited the Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) to engage on the outcomes of the OMA forensic audit report as well as visiting the assessment centres. The Committee interacted with the various structures of the University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) which included, University Management, Labour Unions, Council and Student Representative Council (SRC). 2. Background The oversight visit formed part of the Committee’s plan to visit the 23 public higher education institutions with the aim of revisiting the notion of transformation and social cohesion holistically, focusing on issues of student access and success, equity and equality, examining the role of higher education in a developmental state, disbursement of financial assistance in higher education institutions, discussing the need for a more systematic and structured student support systems, feasibility of a more effective skills development strategy and other relevant matters in the higher education and training spectrum. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 113 of 163 The years 2003 and 2005 saw the restructuring of the higher education landscape resulting in 23 public higher education institutions comprising of eleven traditional universities, six comprehensive universities and six universities of technologies involved in mergers. According to the National Plan for Higher Education, the reconfiguration of the public higher education institutions was undertaken in order to result in rationalisation of programmes, to encourage collaboration between institutions, to enhance responsiveness, to build capacity and to refocus institutions with new institutional identities. The University of Limpopo is the result of a merger between the former Medical University of Southern Africa and the University of the North, which merger occurred on 01 January 2005. The Medical University of Southern Africa (MEDUNSA) was established in 1976 to provide tertiary education and training facilities to the educationally disadvantaged in the fields of Medicine, Allied Health and Nursing Sciences, and Dentistry intended to meet the health needs of the country. The Campus is situated to the north-west of Pretoria. Its grounds extend over some 350 hectares adjoining the Ga-Rankuwa Township and are easily accessible by roads and rail. 3. Composition of the Delegation 3.1 The Parliamentary delegation The multi-party delegation from the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training comprised of Adv I Malale: Chairperson (ANC), Ms N Gina (ANC), Mr S Makhubele (ANC), Mr C Moni (ANC), Ms W Nelson (ANC), Mr S Radebe (ANC), Dr J Kloppers-Lourens (DA), Mr A Mpontshane (IFP) and Mr J Dikobo (AZAPO). 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 114 of 163 Support staff: Mr A Kabingesi (Committee Secretary), Ms M Modiba (Researcher) and Mr K Lobi (Committee Assistant). 3.2 The University of Limpopo representation Management: Prof M Mokgalong: Vice-Chancellor, Dr M Ngoepe: Director of Quality Assurance, Dr S Seroka: Dean of Students Affairs, Dr M Motswaledi: Representative of Heads of Departments, Prof H Siweya: Executive Dean, Prof N Taukobong: Head of Department of Physiotherapy, Prof J Mpahlele: Head of Department of Vivological Pathology, Prof H Joubert: Director of School of Pathology, Prof M Sibara: Deputy Vice- Chancellor of Academic Research, Mr S Hlabati: Deputy Director of Human Resource, Mr J Moloto: Chief Human Resource Officer, Mr J Nkuna: Director of Finance, Mr R Olander: Chief Financial Officer, Prof R Naidoo: University Registrar, Mr D Mohuba: Executive Director of Marketing and Communication, Mr H Croucamp: Deputy Registrar, Mr E Holland: Executive Dean Faculty of Health Sciences, Mr W Tladi: Acting Executive Dean and Dr P Mulder: Director of Institutional Planning. Council: Mr L Boshielo: Deputy Chairperson, Mr Steve Ratlou: Member, Dr H Moloto: Member, Mr G Dunnington: Member, and Mr P Nefolovhodwe: Member. Union: Mr T Sambo: Chairperson of Nehawu, Mr T Mokwape: Nehawu Shop Steward, Ms L Lefosa: Deputy Chairperson of Nehawu, Ms M Motshekga: Admin Officer of Nehawu, Mr J Mahladla: Branch Treasurer of Nehawu, Prof E Green: Chairperson of SAPTU, Mr M Nkobeni: Secretary of SAPTU, Mr G Slander: Member of SAPTU and Mr M Khosie: Deputy Chairperson of SAPTU. Student Representative Council: Mr T Ntsie: President, Mr S Tshilidzi: Deputy Secretary, Mr D Netshilonga: Deputy President and Mr L Maleamalla: Member. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 115 of 163 3.3 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training representation Ms L Mbombo: Deputy Director-General of Corporate Services, Mr F Patel: Deputy Director-General of Planning, Mr C Mtshisa: Chief Director, Mr P Du Toit: Director Internal Audit, Mr N Meiring: Deputy Director, Mr F Prinsloo: Technical Advisor, Mr B Masuku: Chief Director and Mr O Shelembe: Chief Director. 4. Summary of Presentations 4.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) Dr P Mulder: Director of Institutional Planning led the presentation. The presentation focused on the following key points namely; admission policy and requirements, enrolment plan, student access, staffing, transformation, financial consideration and challenges of accommodation and students. a) Admission Policy and Requirements The admission policy and general admission requirements were aligned to the university statutes, university rules and to the applicable Higher Education Legislation and Policy Framework. Student Access and Admissions policy entailed access management, in respect of the admission, selection and placement of students. The policy was crucial in determining an institution’s ‘size’ (the number of students it enrols), its student composition (the kinds of students it targets and enrols) and its ‘shape’ (the types of programmes into which students are placed). All UL programmes leading to certificate, diploma and degree awarded within the National Qualification Framework. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 116 of 163 The National Senior Certificate (NSC) with Bachelor endorsement was used as a minimum requirement for students to be admitted in the university. The university had a placement test whereby all prospective students were required to undergo it before they would be allowed to register. The results of the test assisted the university with the placement of students into relevant programmes. The National Benchmark Test (NBT) was also used to assess student profile as well placing students into Extended Degree Programmes (EDP’s). b) Enrolment Plan Enrolment planning included the university’s projections of enrolments targets for 2011 to 2013. The enrolment planning exercise was co-ordinated by the university’s institutional planning and quality assurance offices. Enrolment targets were determined and informed by the following namely; university vision and mission, strategic focus areas, capacity and local and national development priority areas. The current student enrolment equity profile between males and females was around 49% males and 51% females. It was anticipated that this student equity profile would remain steady. The institution was however, intending to increase the number of female students at postgraduate studies level as well as in scarce skills areas that were predominantly dominated by males. For the 2011 academic year, the university had 9613 students in Science, Engineering and Technology, 3589 students in Business / Management, 1845 students in Education and 5311 students in Humanities. The total number of students at the university for the current academic year was 20358. c) Staffing 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 117 of 163 The university had developed a viable strategy for staff recruitment and retention particularly in the scarce skills programmes. The university intended to achieve this through proper implementation flexible resources policies and procedures as well as performance incentive. The total number of the university’s academic staff was 698 with 368 staff at Medunsa Campus and 335 staff at Turfloop Campus. The management group was headed by the Vice-Chancellor, followed by two Deputy Vice-Chancellors and Registrar, 9 Executive Directors and Dean and 37 Directors and Senior Managers. d) Transformation The university’s employment equity plan was linked to the Employment Equity Act and other relevant labour legislations. The university was open to all those who desired and qualified to pursue their studies in higher education irrespective of race, gender, age, creed, class or disability. e) Financial Considerations The Medunsa Campus was a single faculty with strong focus on medical training. From the pre 1994 era, Medunsa was not financially viable primarily due to expensive nature of Health Science programme training. Unlike other universities which had various academic programmes, Medunsa was funded on Health Science programmes only. In 2004, Medunsa had a net loss of R42 million since the A-factor funding was discontinued. Financial statements for 2004 resulted in a disclaimer for number of reasons. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 118 of 163 The official year of merger between Medunsa and the University of the North was implemented in 2005 to form what was now University of Limpopo. The UL had an annual loss between R50 million and R88 million from 2005 till 2009. The UL had a total income of R936 million for the current academic year. The biggest expenditure of the university was personnel costs R510 million. The net deficit of the UL was for 2009 was R50 million. f) Challenges Student accommodation was a major challenge of the university since it was classified as a previously disadvantaged institution. The physical location of the university was also a major disadvantage since it was located away from residential areas. The Ministerial Task Team on Student Accommodation investigated the accommodation of the UL and the following findings emerged; dilapidated residences due to historical neglect, poor infrastructure, insufficient funding for residences and insufficient accommodation for the student intake. In terms of residential capacity, the Turfloop Campus had 16 200 students resulting in 40% saturation, Medunsa Campus 4 158 students resulting in 76% saturation, UL 20 358 students resulting in 48% saturation. Medunsa had three privately owned off campus residences that accommodated 564 students. The main challenge with off campus accommodation was high travelling costs that the university paid to service providers. The recreational facilities in the university were inadequate. The safety and security around the campus was concern especially for students in residences. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 119 of 163 g) South African Parastatal and Tertiary Institution Union (SAPTU) Prof E Green: Chairperson of SAPTU Medunsa Branch led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: The Medunsa Campus had always been very poorly represented in the Council of the University of Limpopo. For a number of years, Medunsa only had two Council representatives based on the Medunsa Campus. After the recent announcement of the imminent demerger of Medunsa, the composition of the new Council from June 2011 included only one member, with even the acting DVC being excluded. Similarly the composition of executive management is mainly composed of persons based on the Turfloop Campus. This is confirmed in the composition of the Executive Management Committee in which the Medunsa Campus apparently had only two representatives. After six of submissions to harmonize the salary packages on the two Campuses, this still has not happened even after the implementation of the new remuneration policy in May 2010. There were still significant differences in the packages paid to staff on two Campuses in the same posts, with the same qualifications and applicable experience. While the movement of the approximately 20% of the staff up to minimum of the tertiary scales in September 2010 was welcomed, many did not benefit from this as their posts were unilaterally downgraded without job evaluation having taken place. Others including HOD’s and senior academics had only now been lifted to the minimum, which meant that virtually all other tertiary institutions paid better than UL. The present implementation of “match and place” to non-academic posts, with the unilateral selective downgrading of posts had caused major dissatisfaction among affected staff. The 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 120 of 163 future structure of technical posts in academic departments remained a source of uncertainty for staff. The difference of retirement age between the two Campuses was retained for five and a half years post-merger (staff appointed at Medunsa Campus were to retire at 60, while those at Turfloop were appointed to retire at 65). The agreement on the age of retirement for staff had been not reached with management. Application of budgets for the Medunsa Campus was an area of major concern. The departmental budgets were also only finally allocated late each year, which made running academic departments very difficult. h) National Education Health & Allied Workers Union (Nehawu) Mr T Sambo: Chairperson of Nehawu Medunsa Campus Branch led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: In terms of the transformation plan in the wake of the new Health Science Institution, the institutions vision and mission should address the needs of the country’s demand for health professionals, seek to appoint and mentor young black professionals in the health science sector, and assist government in the realization of the intended health insurance. The university did not fully comply with statutory obligations such as; employee wellness, employment equity and occupational health and safety. The current university governance was subjecting Medunsa to paternalism. The selling of the university’s land to a private company for R4 million without proper consultation with the relevant stakeholders remained a major concern. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 121 of 163 Nehawu proposed that the de-merger date be gazetted in the next seating of Cabinet before the end of year (2011) and the Department should move with speed to conclude the de-merger process. i) Student Representative Council (SRC) Mr T Ntsie: President of the SRC led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: Academic Programming The throughput rate of the university was very low due to lack of academic support staff. The university experienced lot of exclusions / drop-outs at the end of each academic since students did not cope with their academic work. There was a decline in the graduation rate since the merger. Prior the merger the university used to produce 250 medical graduates per academic year, post merger the graduation rate was 115 medical students a year. There was shortage of tutors and skilled lecturers in the university. Accommodation The living conditions in the Campus residences were not conducive to learning. Safety and security of students in the residences remained a challenge. Facilities The university lacked adequate recreational facilities for students. The sport complex was used as an exam centre during exam period and most sport activities were suspended. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 122 of 163 j) Council Mr L Boshielo: Deputy Chairperson of the Council led the presentation that highlighted the following key issues: The Council of the university was responsible for governance of the institution as well providing strategic leadership to the management of the university. Prior the merger of the two institutions in 2004, Medunsa had a R42 million deficit in its financial status and was heading for bankruptcy. The expensive nature of health science programmes led to the decline in the financial sustainability of the university. The funding formula also had a huge impact in the financial sustainability of the university since it was classified as previously disadvantaged university. The number of students was very low and the university did not collect sufficient revenue for its operational activities. The merger of the two institutions was implemented in 2005 to form what is known currently as the University of Limpopo. The merger process brought many challenges in the newly formed institution. The biggest challenge with the merger was that the assets register of the two institutions was problematic. Some of the assets of the two institutions were not accounted for. The statute for demerger of the two institutions was announced in August 2010 by the Ministry of Higher Education and Training. The Council, university management and other university structures were not consulted regarding the demerger process. The demerger of the two institutions was not influenced by impact studies, rather it was political. The Minister had never visited the university nor had any meeting with the Council on the process of demerger. The Council had requested a guideline from the Minister for the demerger process and never received it. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 123 of 163 The Council supported the announcement of the Minister for the demerger of the two institutions. The Council would develop a roadmap that would guide the demerger process and ensure stability during the process. A numbers of workshops would be conducted to consult various structures of the university to ensure smooth process of demerger. The asset register of the two institutions were completed and the university received an unqualified audit in 2009/10 financial year with a net surplus of R13 million. The demerger process would require a lot of funding from the Department and the failure to allocate sufficient resources to the demerger process might cost the institution and the country for the next ten years. k) Feedback to Management The Committee having interacted with the Labour Unions, Student Representative Council and Council gave the following feedback to management: The Committee wanted to hear perspectives from the unions and SRC leadership from the Trufloop Campuse. However, they were not invited. The labour unions raised concern regarding disparities with the retirement age of workers in the two institutions. They further noted that the university was not compliant to the employee wellness policies. The SRC noted that some students could not access their results due to outstanding fees owed to the university. The SRC raised concern with the decline in the graduation rate, inadequate internet service and shortage of tutors. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 124 of 163 The unions raised concern with the late allocation of operational budget and insufficient representivity of the Medunsa staff in executive management There were major concerns from both the unions and SRC with regard to the demerger process. 4.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training a) Indlela Overview Mr C Mtshisa: Chief Director of Indlela led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: Indlela was a directorate of the Department of Higher Education and Training responsible for provision of trade assessment services, provision of assessment Practitioner training and development focused on artisan development. Trade testing was conducted in five engineering fields (Automotive, Mechanical, Electrical, Physical Planning and Construction and Services & Technology). The total Indlela staff compliment was 207 and the area size was 18 hectares, 20 houses and 46 workshops. Indlela was in the process of finalizing the establishment the National Artisan Moderation Body (NAMB) and a technical advisor had been appointed for the operationalisation of the NAMB. The NAMB was established within the Department with statutory functions as described in the Skills Development Act, Chapter 6A, and Section 26A. The NAMB established stakeholder forums and tasks teams to enhance and coordinate training delivery of artisans nationally 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 125 of 163 across all sectors. The Artisan Development Technical Task Team, SETA Forum Development Sub committee, Artisan Alignment Task Team, Public FET College Artisan Development Technical Task Team and State Owned Enterprises Artisan Development Task Team were the structures established by the NAMB. b) Forensic Audit Mr P Du Toit: Director of internal audit led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: Factors that influenced forensic investigation of Indlela included; concerns regarding operations and management of Indlela, loss of fixed assets, misappropriation of funds and other fraudulent activities within the institution. OMA Chartered Accountants was appointed to conduct the investigation. The scope of the investigation included; assessments, fixed assets, housing, hostel kitchen, transport, overtime and leave, supply chain management and social club funds. The period cover was limited to the 2008.09 and 2009/10 financial years. The forensic investigation was completed during December 2010 and the various reports and supporting documentation were handed to the Department. The key findings of the investigation involved the following; no records had been maintained, nor any financial control exercised over the revenue and expenditure of the golf course, fraudulent cheques and cash withdrawals from the social club bank account, inadequate management of the procurement and supply chain management policy, fraudulent bookings of trade tests, inaccurate records of fixed assets, and excessive overtime taken by staff. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 126 of 163 Actions taken included; a Chief Director was appointed to head the operations at Indlela, various policies and procedures were reviewed, the golf course and social clubs were closed, 22 officials have been charged, the report was handed over to the commercial crime unit of the SAPS for further investigation to determine civil charges. c) Disciplinary Charges on Indlela Officials Ms L Mbobo: Deputy Director-General of Corporate Services led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: The OMA Forensic Auditors presented a report to the Department’s senior management in April 2011. The report identified 30 officials alleged to have been involved in financial misconduct and other financial irregularities. The Department secured services of four officials from other Departments to assist with the prosecuting process. The aim was to secure clear evidence in order to draw charges. The Department had so far prepared charges for six officials out of the 30 implicated by the report. The process was continuing in respect to the remaining ones. The presiding officers would be appointed by 04 July 2011 and notice of hearings would be issued on 04 July 2011. The hearings would commence as from 11 July 2011 and the process is estimated to be completed by September 2011. 5. Committee Observations and Engagements 5.1 University Management 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 127 of 163 It emerged that an announcement was made by the Minister of Higher Education and Training to de-merger Medunsa from the University of Limpopo after five years since the merger took place. The UL was informed by the Minister to begin a process of de-merger a decision that was received differently by the structures of the university. It was noted with concern that financial sustainability of the Medunsa Campus remained a challenge due to the expensive nature of Health Science programme training. It emerged from the presentation that there was a decline in the graduation rate at postgraduate level and the university was requested to explain factors that contributed to this decline. It was discovered that the university had an Extended Degree Programme for students that passed Matric with no exemption. The Committee wanted to know whether the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) funded this programme. The university was requested explain whether there were any students rejected due to financial exclusions. It emerged that many medical postgraduates students preferred to write fellowship exams over university exams. The university was requested to explain whether there were any unaccredited programmes offered to students. It emerged that the Deputy Vice-Chancellor of the Medunsa Campus was suspended after the riots in the university at the beginning of the year. The Committee was extremely concerned with the number of disabled staff personnel employed by the university as they were not in line with the labour policies. It emerged that the current funding formula did not support the vision of the university in its growth strategy. The Committee wanted to know whether there were any health science students sponsored by the Health and Welfare SETA in the university. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 128 of 163 The university was requested to explain its social awareness programme with the neighbouring secondary schools. 5.2 Unions The unions were requested to explain their challenges with regard to the university’s employment equity policy. The Committee wanted to know whether the unions had constant interactions with management. The unions were requested to explain whether there was evidence that management of the university sold a piece of land to a privately owned company (Walala Wasala) for R4 million without consultation. The Committee was extremely concerned that unions in Medunsa Campus were separated with the unions in the Turfloop Campus. It emerged that the SAPTU and Nehawu were not in agreement with the process of de-merger of the university. The unions were requested to explain examples of paternalism as they alleged in the presentation. The Committee was concerned with the fact that the unions were too complacent with management of the university and did not use the power of collective bargaining effectively. 5.3 Student Representative Council (SRC) The SRC was requested to explain the impact of financial exclusions in the university and its relationship with management. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 129 of 163 The Committee wanted to know whether there was a central SRC that included student representivity from both Campuses. The SRC was requested to explain the impact of shortage of academic staff on student performance. The Committee encouraged the SRC leadership to inform students regarding the importance of hard work. 5.4 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training The Committee requested the Department and Indlela to finalise the process for implementing the Quality Council for Trades and Occupations (QCTO) and National Artisan Moderation Body (NAMB) urgently. The Committee was concerned with SETA targets on artisans training and requested the Department to address this challenge with the implementation of NAMB. Indlela was requested to explain the role that would be played by the various task teams / sub- committees on artisan training and development. Indlela was requested to work in collaboration with the 14 SETAs that were responsible for artisan training and development to increase the number of artisans produce annually. The Committee wanted to know whether there was a database for all the artisans and whether they were placed in employment. The Committee was extremely concerned that the function of quality assurance of learnerships was still in SETAs. The Department was requested to provide a timeframe for the implementation of the QCTO and NAMB. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 130 of 163 The Committee was extremely concerned with the fact that Indlela did not comply with the request of the Committee to send its forensic report. Indlela was requested to briefly explain the role of NAMB as a moderator body within Indlela. Indlela was requested to explain as to whether people that failed trade test were assisted with other means to get certified. The Department was requested to open civil cases to the Police against those involved in corruption and obtain case numbers so that these cases may be transferred to the Hawks. Indlela was requested to explain whether it had risk management systems in place to avoid further corruption. 6. Responses 6.1 University Management The reasons cited for the demerger of the UL were that Medunsa in its current size and structure was not sustainable. Medunsa needed to grow programme based and focus strictly on health science programmes. There was a need for Medunsa to increase enrolments and its current capacity did not allow further student intake. Government would invest in the expansion of Medunsa so that it can increase it capacity to deliver more health science professionals. The Committee was informed that the decline in the Masters degree was contributed by the fact that many medical postgraduate students preferred to write fellowship exams at the College of Medicine than the university. Training students in Masters Degree programmes was a challenge due to few posts made available by the provincial government. The university had sufficient capacity to train more postgraduate students. However, the challenge was resources. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 131 of 163 The Health Professionals Council of South Africa (HPCSA) sets standards and regulations on how many medical students a university can produce or train per year. The reason many medical students preferred the College of Medicine over university was based on the fact that there was a single standardised exit exam in the college. The UL did not offer any unaccredited programmes to students. However, there was challenge with the professional body on pharmacy on accreditation of the programme. However, this challenge had since been resolved. The UL had serious challenge with allocation formula of NSFAS. Majority of students in the university were dependant on NSFAS and the maximum that a student may be allocated was R20 000 as compared with R47 000 that a student in the University of Cape Town (UCT) received. This left students with a huge debt owed to the university after they complete their studies. The DVC of the Medunsa Campus was suspended with full pay after a series of student protests at the beginning of the year. The disciplinary hearings against the DVC would commence on 11 July 2011. The university did not have any students that were funded by the HWSETA besides interns working in the university departments. The UL had a science centre in the Turfloop Campus where learners from neighbouring high schools were exposed to science facilities in the centre. The social outreach programme of the university was effective. The previous VC of Medunsa enrolled more first year students than required hence there was an increase in the graduation rates. The management of the university was not aware of the sale of land to a private company for R4 million. The financial constraints of the university did not allow it to have more tutors. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 132 of 163 The UL had harmonized conditions of service that applied to all workers of the institution and the retirement age was 65. 6.2 Unions The unions had management and organised labour meetings every month and a joint bargaining forum. However, the voice of the unions was not recognised by executive management. The memorandum of understanding between management had been signed but not honoured by management. The Nehawu branch of Medunsa shared different ideas on merger with the Nehawu branch in Trufloop Campus. The land belonging to the university was sold for R4 million and an attorney had called the university to request the bank account to deposit the money. Medunsa staff members had less power to influence the institution since the institutions had been managed predominantly by staff in the Turfloop Campus. 6.3 Student Representative Council (SRC) Majority of students in the university were poor and the funding formula used by NSFAS should be reviewed. The SRC had a good relationship and constant engagement with management. However, most of the issues raised by the SRC were not implemented by management. The Committee was informed that there was no central SRC in the university since the SRC constitution did not allow that. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 133 of 163 The merger process led to huge institutional memory lost and the student intake was reduced, hence the decline in graduation rates. The UL did not have sufficient student support service to detect students that required urgent assistance with their academic work. The lecturer student ratio of the university remained a challenge. The SRC welcomed the demerger of Medunsa from UL. 6.4 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training The role of Indlela was to provide trade test and assessment to people that had necessary skills and had been in the trades industry for many years. It was not a role of Indlela to produce artisans. The NAMB and QCTO would consolidate trades and occupations into a single integrated framework. The NAMB was an autonomous body that would audit and monitor exams and trade test at Indlela. The bureaucratic process delayed the implementation of the QCTO. There were overlapping areas with the other two quality councils (South African Qualifications Authority and Umalusi) and the Department had to address those challenges before the QCTO could be implemented. The post for the CEO of the QCTO had been advertised and the board was appointed. The Department would second 21staff members to assist in the operations of the QCTO. The Department would run the QCTO corporate services as an agency and the organogram of the QCTO had been submitted to the Minister for approval. Indlela would collaborate with labour centres in all the provinces to have provincial presence in throughout the country. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 134 of 163 The Department would setup an Artisans Information Management System (AIMS) which would include all details of artisans in the country and track their progress. The Department aimed to conclude the disciplinary hearings process before the 30 September 2011. The people that were implicated in the alleged corrupt activities remained as employees at Indlela until the disciplinary hearings process is finalised. The Department had suspended the services of the service providers that were involved in the corrupt practises. The risk management system had been improved at Indlela and linked with the Department to prevent any further corrupt activities. 7. Site Observations 7.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) The Committee having conducted site visits in the university made the following observations: Library: The library was fully operational and academic books were available for students. Postgraduate students had separate computer laboratory where they conducted their research. The Oral Health Faculty: The faculty had 68 academic staff, 38 specialists, 320 enrolled students and 215 dental units. Approximately two thirds of black oral health professions in the country came from Medunsa. The building had more than 40 years and consisted of five floors with four theatres of foxication. There were two lecture rooms in the building and the basement was used as a research facility. The budget of the faculty was R98 million with R60 million for salaries and the rest for other administrative costs. The simulation room project costed R4.5 million and had a capacity to train 60 students. The building was well maintained and the facilities were in working order. Residences: Residential accommodation was challenge in the institution. The buildings were old and required refurbishment. The rooms for the students were too small especially those that 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 135 of 163 shared. There were no elevators in the residences. All laundry washing machines were not in working order for the past ten years. Most of the stoves in the kitchen were old and not in good condition. Some of the taps in the sinks were stolen and some kitchens were unhygienic. 7.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training The Committee having conducted site visits at Indlela made the following observations: Electrical Workshop: The workshop was responsible for assessment of candidates that were in the industry for many years and required trade test. Candidates had to pass five categories practical learning before writing exams. Candidates had to be literate and able to write in order to pass the assessment. The testing facilities within the workshop were in good condition and maintained by staff of Indlela. The workshop provided basics for candidates’ not full electrician training. Fitters and Turners Workshop: The workshop consisted of drilling machines that were donated by South Korea at a value of R30 million. Candidates were trained on chain driver alignment, adjustment of brakes for elevators and gearbox maintenance. Motor Mechanics Workshop: This workshop was responsible for training of candidates in motor mechanics. Candidates were assessed on yearly basis and had to complete four years to be a qualified motor mechanic. The workshop had five Hyundai Elantra cars that were donated by South Korea. The cars were used for testing only. Candidates were trained on motor engines, wheel alignment and motor maintenance. Plumbing Workshop: This workshop was responsible for training of candidates who were interested in plumbing and drainage system. There were six cubicles in the workshop that had full equipment for training of plumbers. The equipment in the workshop was fully functional. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 136 of 163 Hair Salon Workshop: The workshop was responsible for assessment of candidates in hair styling. The workshop had a capacity to assess ten people a day. Candidates were required to pass the practical and theory test. All the equipment in the workshop was in good condition. Golf Course: The golf course was established in 1990 and consisted of 18 holes with a club house. The golf course was no longer operational since it was closed by the Department after the findings of the forensic audit report. Maintenance in the golf course was done by the grounds men that were employed by Indlela. 8. Findings The Committee having conducted oversight visit to the UL and Indlela made the following findings: 8.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) The University of Limpopo was in a demerger process with the Medunsa Campus after five years of merger. This was aimed to assist Medunsa to increase enrolments and strongly focus on health science programmes. The university experienced decline in medical postgraduates’ graduation rates. The main reasons cited were too few posts provided by the provincial government for training and lack of resources. The Deputy Vice-Chancellor of Medunsa Campus was on suspension and disciplinary hearing process would start on 11 July 2011. The NSFAS allocation formula to the university was not efficient as students owed the university huge amount of fees due to top slicing. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 137 of 163 The Veterinary Science was removed from Medunsa and the nearby community was in need of this service. There country was in shortage of veterinary professionals to assist rural communities. The university residences required urgent infrastructure refurbishment and improved safety and security for students. There was no Central SRC in the university since Medunsa Campus was a single faculty. There was shortage of tutors to assist students with their academic work. The Council was not consulted by the Minister on the demerger process of the university. 8.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training The Department was in the process of finalising the implementation of the QCTO and NAMB. Indlela was the only public trade test centre and the other 600 centres were privately owned and accredited by SETAs. All the 30 officials alleged to have been involved in financial misconduct and other financial irregularities were not suspended. Six out of the 30 officials implicated in corruption practises at the institute would face disciplinary hearings. The Department terminated service providers that were involved in corruption activities with Indlela. 9. Conclusion 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 138 of 163 The two days oversight visit of the Committee to the UL and Indlela was a very fruitful exercise which gave the Committee a synopsis of the challenges that faced these two institutions. It was evident from the engagements with the UL that the merger process of two previously disadvantaged institutions remained a challenge and benefits of merger were yet to be experienced. Challenges such as accommodation, recreational facilities, student financial support, insufficient resources and lecturer student ratio remained serious challenges of previously disadvantaged higher education institutions. Unfortunately, at a time whereby the merger of the two institutions began to shed some light, an announcement for demerger was communicated to university last year in August. This announcement came as a surprise to the entire university population as the merger was still at it’s in mid stage. The announcement meant that the university had to stop with all the processes that were in place for the realization of the objectives of the merger. The council was in a process to develop a new roadmap that would guide activities of the demerged institutions. Indlela was the only public trade test centre in the country out of the 600 privately owned test centres. The institute had enormous responsibility of conducting trade tests and assessments of candidates that aspired to be artisans. However, the claims of irregular financial activities that emerged during the transfer of Indlela from the Department of Labour to the Department of Higher Education and Training affected the credibility of the institute as an eligible public trade test centre. As result, the Department appointed an independent audit firm to investigate the financial records of the institute. The outcome of the report pointed out financial irregularities that involved 30 officials within the institute. The Department was in the process of finalising disciplinary hearings against the implicated individuals to be completed at the end of September this year. 10. Recommendations The Committee having conducted an oversight visit to UL and Indlela recommends the following: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 139 of 163 10.1 University of Limpopo (Medunsa Campus) All the non functioning facilities at the student residences should be replaced or fixed urgently. The infrastructure at the student residences required an urgent upgrade to improve the living and learning conditions of students. The funding formula used by NSFAS to fund students in the university should be reviewed. HWSETA should sponsor certain students with bursaries in the health sciences programmes. The university should not withhold any results of poor students that owed outstanding tuition fees. The Department should assist the university in getting back the Veterinary Science programme that was removed from it. The university should recruit more lecturers and tutors to improve student support and academic learning. The University should develop policies for recruiting qualified and competent staff and implement a good retention strategy. The university should harmonise the salary packages and retirement age of the employees within the two campuses. The University should uphold the principles of transformation particularly when it comes to employing women in the top management structures. 10.2 Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessment (Indlela) / Department of Higher Education and Training 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 140 of 163 The Department should finalise the implementation of NAMB and QCTO before the end of the year. The Department should press criminal charges against all officials found to have been involved in financial irregularities. Indlela should expand to all the other eight provinces in the country to expand access to people in rural areas. Indlela should collaborate with the other 14 SETAs to increase the training and development of artisans. The golf course should be re-opened and facilities within it should be use for the benefit of the institute. The Department should handover the Forensic Audit Report of Indlela to the Committee for its consideration. The Department should obtain database of all the service providers that were involved in corrupt activities with Indlela so that they could be blacklisted by Treasury. Report to be considered 2. REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING ON THE BUDGET AND STRATEGIC PLANS 2011/12 OF THE SAFETY AND SECURITY SETA, CONSTRUCTION SETA AND FIBRE PROCESSING AND MANUFACTURING SETA, DATED 17 AUGUST 2011 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 141 of 163 The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, having considered the Budget and Strategic Plans 2011/12 of the Safety and Security SETA, Construction SETA and Fibre Processing & Manufacturing SETA reports as follows: 1. Introduction The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training considered the Budget and Strategic Plans 2011/12 of the SASSETA, CETA and FP&MSETA on 22 June 2011. This report gives a brief summary of the presentations made by SASSETA, CETA and FP&MSETA to the Committee, focusing mainly on the 2011/12 Budget and Operational Plans and an overview of challenges and successes of the previous financial year. The report also provides the Committee’s observations and recommendations. The Portfolio Committee on Higher Education & Training was represented by: Adv I Malale, Chairperson (ANC), Ms Gina (ANC), Mr S Makhubele (ANC), Mr C Moni (ANC), Mr S Radebe (ANC), Ms W Nelson (ANC), Dr J Kloppers-Lourens (DA), Mr A van der Westhuizen (DA), Mr A Mpontshane (IFP) and Mr J Dikobo (AZAPO). Safety and Security SETA was represented by: Mr A Witbooi: Chairperson, Mr Z Baloyi: Chief Executive Officer, Mr M Mboniswa: Chief Financial Officer, Ms N Qamata and Mr S Ngoasheng: Senior Manager. Construction SETA was represented by: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 142 of 163 Mr T Mhambi: Administrator, Mr M Fakude: Chief Financial Officer, Ms S Pilusa: Corporate Specialist Advisor, Mr F Lamola: Skills Development and Leanership Manager, Mr A Manuel: Western Cape Regional Manager and Mr T Matobako: ETQA Manager. Fibre Processing & Manufacturing SETA was represented by: Mr S Ngidi: Chairperson, Mr S Mkhwanazi: Acting Chief Executive Officer, Mr P Naicker: Acting Chief Operations Officer and Ms G Layzel: Acting Chief Financial Officer. Department of Higher Education and Training was represented by: Ms P Moleke: Deputy Director-General, Skills. 2. Summary of presentations 2.1 Safety and Security SETA Mr Z Baloyi: Chief Executive Officer led the presentation which highlighted the following key issues: Safety SETA’s mission is to be an education and training authority that ensures quality provision of skills development and qualifications for South African citizens in the safety and security environment through effective and efficient partnership. The profile of the safety and security sector included: Policing with 186 000 employees, Corrections with 41 907 employees, Justice with 18 181 employees, Defence with 74 596 employees, Legal with 59 313 employees and Private Security with 387 544 employees. Achievements for 2010/11: The SETA conducted stakeholder road shows reaching all nine provinces, held successful AGM meeting, fully participated in Provincial Skills Development Forums (PSDFs), and implemented Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) for Policing. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 143 of 163 Challenges: Lack of provincial presence in other provinces besides Gauteng, dropout rate in Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) programmes, and transfer of Metro Police function from Local Government SETA. Strategic Plan: Plans for this year: The SETA planned to build its internal research capacity. This would assist the SETA in improving its research strategy and develop an effective Sector Skills Plan. The SETA planned to establish partnerships with 10 Further Education and Training (FET) colleges and Universities of Technology with the aim to increase access to workplace opportunities for students. The SETA enrolled 3000 unemployed learners for vocational programmes. The SETA planned to assist FET colleges through skills development programmes and work opportunities for students. A pilot project at three FET colleges has been implemented. The SETA planned to establish partnership with youth structures such as the National Youth Development Agency (NYDA) to assist young people with training and work experience projects. Training and development support for small businesses would be prioritized. So far 15 small businesses have been supported. The SETA planned to support career and vocational guidance through career exhibitions and distribution of career guides to schools. Financial Report 2011/12: The SETA’s total budget for the current financial year was R204 million, Administration expenses R73 million, Mandatory Grants R96 million and Discretionary Grants R54 million. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 144 of 163 2.2 Construction SETA Mr T Mhambi: Administrator led the presentation which highlighted the following: Construction SETA was placed under administration by the Minister of Higher Education and Training with effect from the 31 March 2011. In the past six year, the SETA was not able to achieve its modest targets. Mandatory grants were not fully paid to large companies and this negatively affected workplace training in the construction sector. The Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) programme had been a failure in the construction sector since many employees rejected it. Most employees in the sector had been there for a very long time and Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL) would have been a better option. The SETA had more than 300 projects worth R300 million that were not successful. It emerged that 80% of the projects were fraudulent and R214 million was defrauded. The money of the SETA was not utilized for good purposes. Poor corporate governance was the main reason for the poor performance of the SETA. Projects were fraudulently managed and the previous board did not take measures to correct the situation. Upon arrival of the new accounting authority, there were no staff personnel in the projects unit of the SETA. The new accounting authority had changed the strategic plan of the SETA since it did not respond to the requirements of the National Skills Development Strategy (NDSS III) and the new strategic plan would be submitted at the end of June 2011. The SETA had a total budget of R313 million for the current financial year. Lack of levy information led to an unpaid amount of R47 million for mandatory grants at year ends and the grants would be paid by 30 June 2011. The surplus for the current financial year was R187 million. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 145 of 163 2.3 Fibre Processing & Manufacturing SETA Mr S Ngidi: Chairperson led the presentation which highlighted the following: The FP&M SETA was an amalgamation of three SETAs namely; Forest Industries SETA, Clothing and Textile SETA and Printing Publishing and Packaging SETA. These new changes were as a result of the new SETA landscape that was implemented by the Minister of Higher Education and Training, Dr B Nzimande as of 1 April 2011. The integration work in the newly formed SETA brought new challenges to the SETA. The policies of the three different SETAs had to be streamlined into one to ensure good governance, the sector industrial codes had to be renewed, supply chain management and procurement policies were revised. The three different SETAs would keep their accounts until all their books were closed. There would be one central head office of the new SETA and regional offices would be restructured later during the course of this financial year. The three SETAs had a total of 100 employees’ altogether. However, due to institutional memory loss caused by restructuring, the current staff complement was 56 people. The SETA had not yet appointed a new permanent CEO and that would be addressed soon. The forestry sector profile included forestry, wood products, furniture, pulp and paper. Majority of employers were located in KwaZulu Natal (31%). The clothing textile sector employed approximately 150 000 people, of which mostly were females. The printing packaging and publishing sector employed approximately 49 399 employees. Finance: The total levy income budgeted by the FPMSETA in the 2011/12 financial year for the Clothing and Textile sector is R65 million, Forest Industries sector R73 million and Printing Packaging and Publishing sector R94 million. In total the budget of the FPMSETA was R 248 million. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 146 of 163 3. Committee Observations 3.1 SASSETA 3.1.1 It emerged that the annual targets for 2011/12 of the SETA contained in its strategic plan were too low and not responsive to government priorities of job creation and training opportunities for young people. 3.1.2 It was discovered that the Department had not finalized the issue of Service Level Agreements (SLAs) with SETAs. 3.1.3 It was noted with extreme concern that the SETA had been underspending for the past two financial years while it presented so many achievements before the Committee. The Committee was further concerned with the poor success rate of the ABET programme in the SETA and management was requested to rectify this challenge. 3.1.4 It was noted with concern that targets for experiential learning were too low while many students were in dire need of workplace learning to complete their qualifications. 3.1.5 The Committee requested a database of all service providers that were responsible for facilitation of learnership programmes. 3.1.6 It was noted with concern that the SETA employed only one person with disability in the entire organization and it was encouraged to do more in this area. 3.1.7 It emerged that the transfer of municipal traffic services in the current financial year posed a serious challenge for the SETA in terms of funding, since this function was with the Local Government SETA and remained an unfunded mandate. 3.2 CETA 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 147 of 163 3.2.1 It emerged that poor corporate governance was the main reason for the SETA to be put under administration. 3.2.2 The Committee was extremely concerned with the poor performance of the SETA in almost all its focus areas in the past financial year and commended the Minister’s decision to appoint an administrator for the SETA. 3.2.3 It emerged that the strategic plan of the SETA was not responding to the needs of the NSDS III and the new administrator was requested to submit a revised strategic plan to the Committee. 3.2.4 The Committee requested the forensic audit report for its consideration. 3.3 FP&MSETA 3.3.1 It was noted with concern that the integration process of the SETA led to loss of key personnel within the newly formed SETA. 3.3.2 It emerged that the SETA had not finalized the appointment of the fulltime chief executive officer, chief financial officer, chief operations officer and new board. 3.3.3 The Committee was concerned that most of the students that were sent to the Czech Republic to study Masters in Textile Engineering by the former Clothing and Textile SETA had not been placed on fulltime employment. 3.3.4 It emerged that the annual operational targets of the SETA were not clearly articulated and a numeric analysis of the targets were not provided. 4. Recommendations All the three SETAs were requested to revise their strategic plan so that they can respond to government priorities of job creation, rural development and training opportunities for young people. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 148 of 163 SASSETA and FPMSETA were requested to expand their physical presence to all the other provinces in the country. The Department was requested to finalise the SLAs with all SETA. CETA was requested to submit a forensic audit report to the Committee for its consideration. It was recommended that SETAs should convene a SETA Forum where they will discuss strategic issues that were affecting each other. 5. Conclusion The meeting of the Committee with the three SETAs provided an opportunity for Members to obtain a synopsis perspective into the annual and future operational plans of the SETAs. This was the first time the Committee interacted with the three SETAs on their budget and strategic plans. From all the presentation that were made by the SETAs, the Committee was extremely concerned with their targets as they were too low and unrealistic for a country that was in dire need of skills development. The Committee requested that the strategic plans of these SETAs be revised and submitted to the Committee for further consideration. The overall request of the Committee was that there is more work that the SETA could do more than what was contained in their strategic plans. TUESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2011 TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 149 of 163 (a) Training Material and Feedback on Training Delivered in regard to sections 66(2)(b) and 5(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007). COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly 1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education on the Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 36D – 2010 (Reprint)] (National Assembly – sec 76) dated 23 August 2011: The Portfolio Committee on Basic Education, having considered the subject of the Basic Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 36D – 2010 (Reprint)] (National Assembly – sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports that the Committee has agreed to the Bill. WEDNESDAY, 24 AUGUST 2011 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly The Speaker 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 150 of 163 1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled (1) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance: (a) Government Notice No R.617, published in Government Gazette No 34498, dated 29 July 2011: Amendment of rules (DAR/91) in terms of sections 64E and 120 of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964). (b) Government Notice No 615, published in Government Gazette No 34478, dated 29 July 2011: Approval in terms of section 92 of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999) for the State Security Agency to produce only one set of annual financial statements and annual report for the 2010-11 financial year. (c) Government Notice No R.625, published in Government Gazette No 34494, dated 5 August 2011: Amendment of Schedule No 4 (No 4/342) in terms of section 75 of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964). (2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services: (a) Draft regulations made in terms of the Correctional Services Act, 1998 (Act No 111 of 1998). 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 151 of 163 (3) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration and to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities: (a) Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate on Domestic Violence for the period July to December 2010, tabled in terms of section 18(5)(c) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998 (Act No 116 of 1998) [RP47-2011]. (4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and report: (a) Report dated 15 August 2011 on the suspension from office of Magistrate D Jacobs, a magistrate in Clocolan, tabled in terms of section 13(4)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993). (5) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs for consideration and report. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2009-10 is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of Botshelo Water for 2009-10, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2009-10. 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 152 of 163 (6) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications for consideration and report: (a) Performance management system to monitor and evaluate Icasa chairperson and councillors, submitted for consultation with the National Assembly in terms of section 6A of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Act, 2000 (No 13 of 2000). (7) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for consideration and report and to the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Land Bank for 2010-11, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Consolidated Financial Statements of the Land and Agricultural Development Bank of South Africa (Land Bank) for 2010-11 [RP122-2011]. (8) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration and to the Portfolio Committee on Police, Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, Portfolio Committee on Health and Portfolio Committee on Social Development: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 153 of 163 (a) Submission of directives issued in terms of sections 66(2)(a) and (c) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007). (b) Training material and feedback on training delivered in regard to section 66(2)(b) and section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (No 32 of 2007). (9) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development: (a) Government Notice No R.580, published in Government Gazette No 34458, dated 15 July 2011: Amendment of regulations relating to the Attorneys Fidelity Fund in terms of section 81(2) of the Attorneys Act, 1979 (Act No 53 of 1979). (10) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and report: (a) Report of the Research and Development Tax Incentive Programme for 2009-10. (11) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Police for consideration and to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and Portfolio Committee on Health: 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 154 of 163 (a) Training courses on sexual offences and related matters, developed in terms of section 66 and tabled in terms of section 66(5)(a) of the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act, 2007 (Act No 32 of 2007). (12) The following paper is referred to all portfolio committees for consideration and report in accordance with their respective mandates: (a) Diagnostic Overview of the National Planning Commission, June 2011. 1. Membership of Committees (1) The following changes to Committee membership have been made by the ANC: Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture Discharged: Farisani, Rev. T Appointed: Nwamitwa-Shilubana, Ms T Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Discharged: Turok, Mr B Appointed: Cele, Mr MA 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 155 of 163 Portfolio Committee on Communications Discharged: Muthambi, Ms AF Appointed: Ndlazi, Ms Z Portfolio Committee on Economic Development Discharged: Huang, Dr SB and Skosana, Mr JJ Appointed: Gcwabaza, Mr NE and Tsotetsi, D Portfolio Committee on Transport Discharged: Gcwabaza, Mr NE and Duma, Mr NM Appointed: Huang, Dr SB and Magubane, Mr NE Portfolio Committee on Labour Discharged: Khumalo, Ms FT, Mnisi, Ms NA Tsotetsi, Ms DR (ALT) Appointed: Luthuli, Dr AN Nonkonyana, Mr M 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 156 of 163 Portfolio Committee on Public Works Discharged: Jacobus, Ms L Appointed: Magubane, Mr NE Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises Discharged: Nonkonyana, Mr M Duma Mr NM (ALT) Appointed: Mokoena, Mr AD September, Ms C Portfolio Committee on Police Discharged: Chauke, Mr HP Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs Discharged: Mokoena, Mr AD Appointed: Thibedi, Mr J Mnisi, Ms NA Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 157 of 163 Discharged: Mdaka, Ms NM Appointed: Nelson, Mr WJ Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services Discharged: De Lange, Mr JH Appointed: Cele, Mr MA Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Cooperation Discharged: Gxowa, Ms NB Appointed: Jacobus, Ms L Chauke, Mr HP Malgas, Ms HH Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology Discharged: Luthuli, Dr AN Appointed: Line, Ms H Thibedi, Mr J 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 158 of 163 Ndlazi, Ms Z Portfolio Committee on Sport & Recreation Discharged: Lishivha, Ms TE Appointed: Sunduza, Ms T Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry Discharged: Hajaig, Ms F Line Ms H Appointed: September, Ms C Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs Discharged: Luyenge, Dr Z (ALT) Portfolio Committee on Mining Discharged: Bikani, Ms FC Mathibela, Ms NF Moss, Ms LN Ngele, Ms NJ Appointed: Mjobo, Ms LN 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 159 of 163 Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform Discharged: November, Ms NT (ALT)) Appointed: November, Ms NT Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration Discharged: Rasool, Mr E Appointed: Nyekemba, Mr E Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training Discharged: Gina, Ms N (ALT) Lekgetho, Mr G Appointed: Gina, Ms N Constitutional Review Committee Discharged: Hajaig, Ms F Committee on Auditor-General 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 160 of 163 Discharged: Matshoba, Mr JM Nonkonyana, Mr M Private Members’ Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions Discharged: Mocumi, Ms P Ainslie, Mr R Fihla, Mr NB Appointed: Khumalo, Mr F Joint Standing Committee on Defence Discharged: Gololo, Mr CL Koornhof, Mr GW (2) The following changes to Committee membership have been made by the Independent Democrats: Portfolio Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Appointed: Mcgluwa, Mr JJ (ALT) Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 161 of 163 Appointed: Mcgluwa, Mr JJ Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements Appointed: Mcgluwa, Mr JJ (ALT) Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation Appointed: Mcgluwa, Mr JJ Appointed: Paulse, Ms SU (ALT) Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises Appointed: Greyling, Mr L Portfolio Committee on Energy Appointed: Greyling, Mr L Portfolio Committee on Water and Environmental Affairs Appointed: Greyling, Mr L (ALT) Standing Committee on Finance 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 162 of 163 Appointed: Greyling, Mr L (ALT) Portfolio Committee on Social Development Appointed: Paulse, Ms SU Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities Appointed: Paulse, Ms SU Portfolio Committee on Health Appointed: Hoosen, Mr MH Portfolio Committee on Basic Education Appointed: Hoosen, Mr MH (ALT) TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Tourism 24 AUGUST 2011 PAGE: 163 of 163 (a) Report and Financial Statements of South African Tourism for 2010-2011, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Financial Performance for 2010-2011. COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly 1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities on the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and Development, dated 24 August 2011: The Portfolio Committee on Women, Children, Youth and People with Disabilities, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Protocol on Gender and Development referred to it, recommends that the National Assembly, in terms of section 231 (2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.
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