CITY OF SHAWNEE
FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MEETING
JUNE 6, 2006
Chairperson Sandifer called the meeting to order at 7:01 p.m.
Committee Members Present Staff Present
Councilmember Pflumm City Manager Gonzales
Councilmember Sawyer Assistant City Manager/City Clerk Charlesworth
Councilmember Straub Assistant City Attorney Rainey
Councilmember Sandifer City Engineer Wesselschmidt
Public Works Director Freyermuth
Other Councilmembers Present Police Chief Clark
Councilmember Scott Fire Chief Hudson
Councilmember Goode Parks and Recreation Director Holman
Councilmember Kuhn Finance Director Kidney
Members of the public who spoke: (Item 4) MARY CUMMINGS, Manager, Shawnee
Convention and Visitor’s Bureau, LINDA LEEPER, President, Shawnee Chamber of Commerce.
Chairperson Sandifer recognized Boy Scout Troop 194.
1. PRELIMINARY PLANS FOR KING STREET RECONSTRUCTION AND
PARKING LOT IMPROVEMENTS.
Chairperson Sandifer stated that the City Council approved reconstruction of King Street
from Johnson Drive to 57th Street, except to leave the northeast two block length of the
project uncurbed; and construction of a new parking lot at the southeast corner of King
Street and 58th Street. The estimated total project cost was $820,000. Preliminary Plans
have been prepared with an estimated total cost of the project of $789,400. Staff asked
Shafer, Kline and Warren to prepare an additional cost estimate to curb and gutter the
remaining two blocks. The cost is estimated to be an additional $28,000 which would
bring the total project cost to $817,400. Community Development Block Grants will fund
$187,500 and the remaining cost of the project will be debt financed by General
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would move they go ahead and put the curbs on the
east side of this project from 58th Street to 57th Street. He stated it would definitely be
more economical to do it now than to come back later and do half of that two block area
at a later date. It would make the project a whole, complete project and look much nicer.
Councilmember Goode stated he supports Councilmember Sawyer’s motion.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 2
Councilmember Straub asked if this is an estimate or an actual bid.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks the whole thing is an estimate because they have
yet to put it out for bid.
Chairperson Sandifer stated they are under what they have already budgeted for the
project, even with this $28,000. He thinks the staff did a fabulous job.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they are not yet under budget, as they do not know what
the bid will come back at, but it appears that way.
Councilmember Sawyer, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to recommend the
Council approve the reconstruction of King Street from Johnson Drive to 57th Street, to
include curb and guttering on the northeast two block length of the project, along with
construction of a new parking lot at the southeast corner of King Street and 58th Street
with an estimated total cost of the project at $817,400 with funding through Community
Development Block Grants for $187,500 and the remaining cost of the project to be debt
financed by General Obligation Bonds. The motion carried 4-0.
2. CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE PROHIBITING SKATEBOARDS AND OTHER
DEVICES IN SPECIFIED PLACES.
Chairperson Sandifer stated that Councilmember Sawyer asked staff to look into what
could be implemented to address concerns regarding skateboarding on public right-of-
way, in parking lots open to the public, and on sidewalks open to use by the public.
Concerns included damage to public and private property, danger to pedestrians and
potential traffic hazards. This issued was discussed at the May 2, 2006, Finance and
Administration (F&A) Committee meeting. Based on that discussion, Chief Clark and
Assistant City Attorney Ellis Rainey prepared two draft ordinances for consideration of
Police Chief Clark stated this was last discussed at the May 2, 2006 Finance and
Administration Committee meeting. He stated based on feedback from the committee
Assistant City Attorney Rainey drafted two possible ordinances. Draft A prohibits
bicycles, coasters, roller skates, skateboards, rollerblades, and other similar devices in
specified areas of the city. He stated Draft B differs from Draft A, only in that bicycles
are not prohibited.
Police Chief Clark stated both proposed ordinances would refer to a pedestrian district
which covers the downtown area and part of their hope, is that the committee would
select or recommend one of those two pedestrian districts if they went ahead and
proceeded with an ordinance.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 3
Councilmember Sawyer asked Police Chief Clark if the pedestrian area is 57 th Street on
Nieman to 59th Street and Johnson Drive from King Street to Ballentine, and just those
Police Chief Clark replied there are two different pedestrian zones proposed. He stated
the first being King Street to Ballentine and secondly, 59th Street to 58th Street. He stated
there is another pedestrian zone proposed with a more irregular boundary. He presented
an overhead of the west end of this pedestrian zone. It covers 58th Street north to the rear
of the buildings on the south side of Johnson Drive. He stated 59th Street eventually
becomes the south boundary and north of the buildings on the north side of Johnson
Drive become the north boundary. He stated the eastern edge is generally Bluejacket
Police Chief Clark stated his recommendation on these ordinances would be to pass
Ordinance A, which prohibits bicycles and all the other things and use the rectangular
pedestrian zone, just because it is easier to remember what the street boundaries are and
easier to enforce.
Councilmember Pflumm stated the main concern here is on certain sidewalks. He asked
if this is saying a person can not ride bicycles in any parking lot or on any sidewalk in
that blocked in area.
Chairperson Sandifer stated he believes it is if the private property has signs that are
posted with that ordinance.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated that is correct. He stated the Council will have to
determine where it is, but it was intended to prohibit that within that area. He stated they
did intend to include, as written, every place except between the curb lines and streets
with bicycles and skateboards every place else.
Police Chief Clark stated that technically they will not be able to be in the parking lots.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if the theatre ever opened could someone then not ride
their bicycle downtown and park it anywhere.
Police Chief Clark stated a person can ride their bike downtown on the street and walk it
into the parking lot and park it somewhere. Someone can walk their bicycle in this
outlined area and it would not be in violation of this ordinance.
Councilmember Pflumm reiterated that the major problem is just bicycles on sidewalks.
Police Chief Clark concurred and stated that was his understanding from the last meeting.
Councilmember Pflumm stated there is not a problem with bicycles in parking lots or
bicycles on the streets in the downtown area.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 4
Chairperson Sandifer stated he wonders about private property like over in the Knights of
Columbus parking lot.
Police Chief Clark stated the Knights of Columbus parking lot would be included in the
rectangular pedestrian zone.
Chairperson Sandifer stated this would include private property, even if they do not have
signs posted that would say “No Skateboards” with the ordinance. He asked if a person
would still be breaking the ordinance if they rode bicycles on private property that was
Police Chief Clark answered that in a pedestrian zone, it would be a violation of the
ordinance. He stated outside of the pedestrian zone, if the businesses wanted to prohibit
the use of any of these devices on their property, they would have to post a sign to make
it unlawful. If a sign is posted, then the Police Department could enforce it.
Councilmember Goode asked if the signs have to be posted before the Police Department
Police Chief Clark replied only if the area is outside the pedestrian zone.
Councilmember Goode stated he came up on this sort of situation around five or six years
ago going into the Catholic Church and the skateboarders almost ran him off because
there were so many of them. He stated he got tough with them and told them to get off
and the kids went on down the street and laughed at him. That was the end of his
jurisdiction. He wonders about other parking lots in similar locations like this where
they can do the same thing. He asked how the City plans to handle that. If no one is
asking to have it passed in that particular area, the City will just let it go until it causes a
problem and then come up with an ordinance.
Police Chief Clark stated it depends on what type of property Councilmember Goode is
talking about. He stated if it occurs in the pedestrian zone, it is unlawful. If it occurs
outside of the pedestrian zone, for it to be unlawful, the property owner has to do a
Councilmember Goode asked if the parking lot at a church where people park their cars is
the pedestrian zone.
Police Chief Clark replied the St. Joseph Church would be in the pedestrian zone – yes.
Councilmember Pflumm stated the St. Joseph Church is not in the pedestrian zone, but on
this map the St. Joseph Church parking lot, which is in the back of the Knights of
Columbus would be, so all those kids who are riding their bikes down there for a fish fry
or something will be in violation.
Police Chief Clark stated they can ride their bikes on the street.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 5
Councilmember Pflumm stated the problem is not parking lots and this whole thing
originated because people were riding down Johnson Drive in front of Hartman’s
Hardware and those businesses. They have expanded this area out.
City Manager Gonzales stated it can be changed to exclude parking lots.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he likes Option B, but they still want to exclude the
bicycles from the sidewalks in these areas downtown.
Police Chief Clark stated these are just proposed ordinances and can certainly be altered.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that Option B allows the bicycle to be ridden to the
downtown area, but does not exclude the parking lots. He stated the difference between
Option A and Option B is that Option A takes out the bicycles and Option B allows them.
Police Chief Clark stated that is correct.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that does not cover the problem they had with Option B,
because the problem they had was with the bicycles on Johnson Drive in front of
Councilmember Sawyer stated he tends to agree with Councilmember Pflumm
somewhat, but asked how a person can ride a bike to where it includes the sidewalks on
Police Chief Clark stated he would think they could prohibit bicycles on the sidewalks
adjacent to Johnson Drive between King and Ballentine for instance, and apply the rest of
the ordinance to the downtown pedestrian zone.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that sounds good.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated they can draw it up as the Council advises, but the
problem that he and Police Chief Clark were having, was when they tried to describe it
by streets they ended up with a paragraph and a half from King to Reeder and it looked
silly. He stated it was hard for them to follow and they had to pull out a map and follow
it around with their fingers. They thought it would be easier to go with this type of an
area, but the Council can make the final determination of that area.
Councilmember Pflumm stated one of the issues on the bicycles, is they are building a
brand new pool for little kids that will abut King Street. If any of those kids want to ride
their bikes down to the pool, they are probably going to be in violation some place some
time. That is his only issue and they could rewrite the ordinance to read that bicycles are
not allowed on the sidewalks along Johnson Drive.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 6
Councilmember Straub stated some people had problems with the business parking lots,
but it depends and that could just be posted and might solve that problem. He asked how
this is enforced and will someone monitor it. He stated he is afraid they will make an
ordinance that ends up not getting enforced.
Police Chief Clark stated the same situation would exist with this ordinance that exists
with every ordinance and every state law. He stated there is no way the Police
Department can guarantee that every violation will get enforced or there will be someone
there to see every violation happen. He stated it is the same way it is with every state law
and every city ordinance in existence today. This merely gives the City and the Police
Department a tool with which to work if they do happen to see these things take place.
Councilmember Straub stated if the City has an ordinance or a requirement someone does
not have to be there full time to enforce it without bringing more liability onto the City.
Police Chief Clark stated the Police Department would enforce it to the best of their
ability. He stated if businesses or people had complaints, the Police Department would
come and enforce it if they saw violations.
Councilmember Straub stated if the Police see someone going down the sidewalk and
they were stopped and asked not to continue that would be considered enforcing the
Councilmember Kuhn stated her understanding was that the biggest problem was a
concern over someone walking out of a store and an accident possibly happening because
of a bicycle coming down the sidewalk, especially at accelerated speeds. She asked how
many along King Street on that frontage area actually have any type of building that
opens out onto the street, because she does not think there is any.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is correct, there isn’t any.
Councilmember Kuhn stated King Street to her, makes limited amount of sense. She
asked if it would not make more sense to write this ordinance in a way that included the
improved portion of the downtown district, basically from the time they start putting the
pavers in and when they go to the next step and put in more pavers that would expand
where a person is not allowed to ride their bike.
Councilmember Pflumm stated the only real sidewalk issue is Johnson Drive – no place
else on any of those other side streets really have a lot of doors coming out onto a
sidewalk where kids will be riding.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that is her point, Johnson Drive, using the downtown
improvement district as their guideline from where it starts now and where the pavers
end, those being their streets so they do not have to come back and revisit this when they
are blessed enough to be able to expand further down Johnson Drive. She stated right
now it could read it goes ‘X’ to ‘Y’ and is covered, then when it goes to ‘A’ to ‘B’ and
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 7
further down, it would extend to that point. The ordinance disallows a person to ride
their bicycle on Johnson Drive on the sidewalk for safety precautions. She stated that
would also make it easy to post signs at Point ‘A’ and Point ‘B’ that reads No Riding
Bikes Beyond this Point. She stated they could just pick up the signs and move them
further out when they build further out of the district.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he tends to like Option A if they can define it to the
sidewalks on Johnson Drive for bicycles.
Police Chief Clark stated that is certainly possible.
Councilmember Straub asked if a person would not be allowed to have a skateboard in a
parking lot in the same area or even rollerblades.
Councilmember Pflumm answered no. He stated bicycles are used for transportation and
skateboards are normally used for activities.
Councilmember Straub stated his kids ride their rollerblades to school all the time.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the statement was made earlier that anyone outside this
area could put up a sign stating they did not want this activity to go on in their parking lot
and asked if that includes bicycles. He stated, hypothetically, if Hartman’s decides they
do not want bicycles or rollerblades, so could they simply post a sign and then that
parking lot would be off limits.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey replied it would depend upon whether or not it is private
property. He stated he can not recall exactly for sure what a public street is.
Councilmember Pflumm stated there could No Loitering signs posted in those areas for
those issues with skateboards and rollerblades.
Councilmember Goode stated some of that is private property.
Police Chief Clark stated No Loitering signs would not work and they would have to be
more specific like, Skateboards and Rollerblades Prohibited or Bicycles and Skateboards
Prohibited – whatever the Council decides to prohibit.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated he understood some property owners had problems
with bicycles, some had problems with skateboards, and some had problems with both.
He stated with Option B, after working with it for a while, they ended up stating that no
person shall operate or ride upon whichever one the private property owner posts as being
prohibited. He stated if they post it, then it would be a violation of this ordinance.
Chairperson Sandifer stated they would have to post it with the ordinance number, if it is
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 8
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated he does not think it matters.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is always looking for the part of it that could be difficult
and asked if by any means does Coaster, rollerblades, skateboard, toy vehicle or similar
device operating in such a device property . . . apply to a parent pulling their kid in a
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated he could see the argument that a wagon is a toy
vehicle. He stated he did not change this language much and this was uniform amongst
all the other cities. He does not know that anyone else has ever had that come up. He
stated frankly that the words toy vehicle were in all of them and he does not know why
that is in there. He does not know if the conduct they are focusing on is of concern to the
residents and has anything to do with toy vehicles, other than skateboards and bicycles
and that is such an easy thing to put a line through.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated the regular shaped pedestrian zone he got from the
Planning Department is essentially the town square downtown pedestrian zone. He stated
this one is just squared off and he thought that made more sense to kids than anyone else
who are trying figure out what areas are prohibited. He stated when the Council decides
what area they want to prohibit as a matter of policy, it is just a matter of drawing lines,
so that is why he went with this format rather than trying to describe the streets.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he wants to make sure the downtown properties can post a
sign prohibiting any of these vehicles in their parking lots and it would be covered.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they need to include in the motion it has to be posted if
someone wants to exclude bikes from their parking lot.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated it is written that way. He stated they were
specifically talking about that alleyway and he is not sure if that is not a public street and
that is why he hesitated, as he does not think that is a private property.
City Manager Gonzales stated the easement is actually right up next to Hartman’s and the
private part is actually what you would think would be the public part of it.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the private part, if he remembers correctly, is almost right
up the center – it is a weird deal. The alley sits right next to Hartman’s and they would
not have to post any of this if they wanted to keep them off the roof.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey asked if the committee would like to take the toy vehicle
Councilmember Sawyer answered yes.
Police Chief Clark stated they will use the rectangular pedestrian zone.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 9
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to recommend
the Council approve an ordinance regarding skateboarding on public right-of-ways, in
parking lots open to the public, and bicycles and skateboards on sidewalks open to use by
the public for the downtown properties adjacent to Johnson Drive as outlined in a
pedestrian zone, generally shown as Ballentine Street to the east, 59th Street to the south,
King Street to the west, and 58th Street to the north. The motion carried 4-0.
3. DISCUSSION OF SKATEBOARD PARK – RULES AND REGULATIONS.
Chairperson Sandifer stated that the City’s skateboard park opened on April 1, 2006.
Councilmember Pflumm inquired about the possibility of requiring helmets in the park.
This issue was discussed at the May 2, 2006 Finance and Administration Committee
meeting. The item was tabled to this meeting to allow staff to gather more information
related to the requirement for helmets and other safety equipment. A memo from staff is
included in the packet which discusses issues related to safety and liability. Also included
are e-mails from the City's insurance representative and underwriter, a survey of all other
cities in Kansas that have skateboard parks regarding this issue, and the staff
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated, as recommended by Council at an earlier
meeting, the staff did provide correspondence from Trident Insurance. He stated there
were two letters in the packet, one from claims and one from the vice-president. He
stated they did expand their research from around the area to the whole State of Kansas
on the skatepark regulations.
Chairperson Sandifer stated it is his understanding that the only city and park that
required helmets was the City of Lawrence and it is for kids 15 years of age and under.
He stated they did not give them citations or arrest them, but gave them a certificate to
get a free helmet, which would be costly to the City if they were to do anything like that.
He stated that there is nobody enforcing any type of helmet law in the State of Kansas.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated they do not really know that is going on in
Lawrence. He stated he had talked to the director and he did not even know about the
Councilmember Pflumm stated how they are enforcing it is similar to how they would
enforce something downtown and that is not really the issue. He stated what they are
doing is punishment, as far as giving out helmets or giving out coupons for free helmets,
and nobody ever suggested they do anything like that. He likes the idea of the 15 years
of age group and under.
Chairperson Sandifer stated they do not enforce it in Lawrence.
Councilmember Pflumm stated Chairperson Sandifer does not know for sure if that is
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 10
City Manager Gonzales stated when Parks and Recreation Director Holman talked to the
Parks Director in Lawrence, he was not really familiar with the program so they were
concerned about that. It was the City Manager’s office that knew about the program.
City Manager Gonzales stated when she emailed them and asked how often it came up,
they did not respond.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they do not know if Lawrence is enforcing it or not. He
stated they do not know if all or none of their kids, or even any percentage, are wearing
helmets. They do have an ordinance that says kids are supposed to wear a helmet if they
are 15 years of age or younger. He stated what he gathered from the additional
information provided, is that the City’s legal staff says regardless of whether Shawnee
does or does not require helmets, they are not going to be held liable by the State of
Kansas or by any lawsuits and will be held harmless. He asked if that is a correct
Assistant City Attorney Rainey replied they believe they have immunity under the
Councilmember Pflumm stated that is what they were told in the past. He stated also
included was a couple of emails and letters from the insurance people who absolutely
indicated in their emails that they knew nothing about Kansas law, at least that is what
one representative said.
Chairperson Sandifer stated he went by the skatepark on a Sunday about three weeks ago
and counted roughly 25 to 30 kids. He stated every one of them had on a helmet and
there were no parents present. He stated he called Councilmember Pflumm that day to go
up there to see for himself.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he goes up there about once a week and believes the
City’s job is to require helmets.
Chairperson Sandifer stated things are working as they stand presently and that day was
proof to him.
Councilmember Pflumm asked Parks and Recreation Director Holman, as he personally
goes by there about once a week on purpose, to count the helmets. He stated he is
counting 2 to 5 percent of the kids who wear helmets - on an average.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied the older adults wear the helmets,
especially the ones in the bowl. He stated the ones who do not wear helmets are on the
Councilmember Pflumm stated that was another issue brought up here today. He stated
the reasons why the City should require helmets. Shawnee’s skateboard park is, he
believes, about 30 times as aggressive as the other skateboard parks in the State of
Kansas. He stated is does not know if anyone else has a park that is anywhere close to
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 11
what Shawnee’s park offers. He stated their park is much more aggressive, which
basically means it is much more dangerous to operate in if someone is trying tricks. He
stated he has been up there and seen little kids doing the bowl.
Councilmember Kuhn stated for clarification purposes, the way she read the insurance
statements, while they were not overtly familiar with Kansas law, they were familiar with
a number of other states that have dealt with issues, with regards to skateparks. The two
things that stood out most to her, were that while they have the assumption and the City
attorneys believe, and she has the utmost faith in Shawnee’s attorneys, she does not
always have the utmost faith in the juries and judges to do what the City’s attorneys think
is the right thing. She stated they have to keep that in mind when assuming risk.
Councilmember Kuhn stated the two things she took from what they said, is that dealing
with the assumption of risk, and that is, if the City puts up a sign that reads no use after
9:00 p.m., then they would assume a duty to enforce it. She stated if someone is assigned
to monitor it, they assume a duty to enforce it. She stated if they put up a wall, they
assume a duty to make sure that no one breaches it. She stated if the City puts up a sign
that says a person must wear a helmet, then she is under the impression that it would be
of a mind that someone could assume that they would have a duty to enforce that. She
stated the thing that makes her go back to that is with what the first underwriter wrote.
This is really her perspective on it. She would like children to be safe, like them to be
taken care of, and like them to do the right thing. She stated it is the parent’s
responsibility to make sure that happens and not the government’s responsibility.
Councilmember Kuhn stated the government’s responsibility is to look out for the City as
a whole and the well being of the policies they set. What scares her is, The establishment
of policies and guidelines dealing with standards of insured requires that all aspects of
their day to day operations is fundamental and being judged a good risk. The second
criterion is once these guidelines are in place that they are enforced. It is axiomatic that
it is not following their own published standards or policies and becomes a poor risk.
She stated that consequences in being judged a poor risk from Trident’s perspective is
that they just don’t write them.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is much more concerned about making sure their
insurance companies continue to think of Shawnee as a good risk, therefore keeping their
policy affordable and also in force. She stated she can’t imagine how very disappointed
she would be as a member of the Governing Body if their insurance company decided
they were no longer comfortable with writing the policy for the City’s skatepark, because
they judged it to be a poor risk and they no longer had a skatepark that could be visited
because it was not insured.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that is very similar to someone riding their bike down
after the next City Council meeting when they enact an ordinance prohibiting children,
kids, anyone from riding a bike down a Johnson Drive sidewalk and someone walks out
and gets hit by that person and the City did not enforce it. He stated they incur actually
less amount of risk than they do if they require helmets, because they are held harmless
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 12
by the laws. The City’s attorneys have told them they are held harmless. He stated they
are not held harmless down on Johnson Drive on the sidewalk, he does not believe, but
that would be up to the legal staff. To say the City was held liable, because the insurance
people are saying this is their standard, just use it, be quiet, and go away is ridiculous.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would see it very differently because she would believe
that they would not be using the same standard for it. She stated telling someone what
they must do in order to be at their safety standard at a public use park, to her, is vastly
different than having requirements that are no different than setting a speed limit, in her
opinion, down Johnson Drive. She stated saying that someone can not ride a vehicle on a
sidewalk has been done in multiple places throughout the City. She stated if they told
them they had to wear their helmet while riding down Johnson Drive, she would think
they would be putting themselves in a slightly different position. She sees those two
things as being very different.
Chairperson Sandifer stated he does not think they are comparing apples to apples here,
because there are not very many shops by the skatepark where people are going to walk
out with a piece of furniture or after eating dinner and have a skater run into them.
Councilmember Straub asked if they are more worried about the people walking out than
the skaters. He asked if there is a difference between the two.
Chairperson Sandifer stated they are worried about collisions.
Councilmember Straub asked about two skaters colliding.
Councilmember Kuhn stated there are three very simple words that she thinks would
cover that, assumption of risk.
Councilmember Straub stated it looks like every city in the State of Kansas or everyone
who has a skatepark, except Lawrence, Kansas, has no requirements for helmets. He
stated they all each state, and he personally thinks Shawnee’s attorneys are all smarter
than any of these guys, that there is immunity. He stated the insurance companies are
not looking at it from the perspective of someone getting hurt or not getting hurt, but how
much do they have to pay out if someone does get hurt. He stated they look at it as bean
counters and they would rather a person die than get lamed for the rest of their life,
because they will pay out less. He stated they look at it as risk on what they pay out.
Councilmember Straub stated maybe Shawnee, Kansas is going to be the test case in the
United States of America, because he does not believe that any of the attorneys or any of
the City staff has come up with any case studies, court cases, or claims against the City
because of this scenario. He stated there are probably other skateparks in the country that
do require helmets that are public, he does not know because he has not done the study,
but that is his assumption. He stated he does not know of any legal standing on that right
now, so whether or not they enforce it, and according to Trident representative Grady
Hendricks, it says, Strict rules of use may reduce the frequency of injury, and that was an
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 13
insurance person saying that. If the City has strict rules it may reduce frequency of
injury. He thinks that is his goal. His goal is that he does not want the City to pay out
millions of dollars and does not want them to be the case study like Roe vs. Wade and
everyone on the news for 50 or 60 years with CNN on all the time saying they are back in
Shawnee, Kansas talking about this helmet case.
Councilmember Straub asked about No Glass Containers, No Alcohol, and No Drugs and
if that is a requirement or a recommendation.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated that is an ordinance.
Councilmember Straub asked who enforces those ordinances – is there anyone at the park
enforcing any of these restrictions. His thoughts are if someone brings a glass container
into the bowl and it breaks and the next person goes right behind them and gets cut or
lamed, would the City be more liable because there was no one there to enforce that No
Glass Container rule. He asked if they are in fact enforced, will the person be issued a
ticket or citation, or just merely given a warning.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated they just adopted the ordinance for the first time at
the last City Council meeting – the one that allows the Director of Parks and Recreation
and his or her staff to ask a person to leave and make a person leave a park when they are
not complying with the rules and regulations. He stated they did previously have an
ordinance that said, “Thou Shall Not Do This”.
Councilmember Straub asked if they are bringing more liability upon themselves, if they
do not have somebody there during all the hours of operation to make sure it is enforced.
He stated the Trident representative said in his letter, if the City does not enforce it and
they have hours of operation and someone is not there locking the doors, then they are
obviously not enforcing them. He asked if someone is at the park at night to close things
City Manager Gonzales stated the police patrol all the parks regularly, so they enforce
Councilmember Straub stated that is their enforcement then, and asked if they did make
helmets a requirement, are they saying they do not need someone there the whole time to
enforce it and they still would be okay, liability-wise.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey replied that the difficulty is that they are guessing what
the facts would be. He stated the legal reasoning for the skateboard park is there is
immunity for the failure to enforce or failure to adopt an ordinance or law. He stated in
addition to the skateboard park, there is also recreational immunity in Kansas and that has
been interpreted very broadly. He stated if someone is using a public facility for
recreational purposes, they are immune in Kansas. He stated the Supreme Court and
Court of Appeals, as of June 2, 2006 on their last decision, said a person is immune. If
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 14
someone is using a park and that park is for recreational purposes and they get hurt, that
City or governmental entity is immune.
Councilmember Straub stated he is asking about the City stepping up to the plate.
Someone actually told him Shawnee has the best skatepark from Denver to Kentucky.
We say we are going to be a safety city and we believe in helmets and think most adults
are smart enough to wear the helmets. We should require them because we are a safety
city and care about humans and are not all worried about the liabilities, lawsuits, and
money. He does not think we are going to be a test case, but that could happen. He
stated he never thought 747’s would hit the World Trade Center, but look what happened.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not understand what is wrong with the current
posted wording. He stated it reads, It is strongly recommended that the following safety
equipment be worn at all times. He asked what more does it have to say. He stated if we
want to take the approach of Councilmember Pflumm, then we almost have to look at
every baseball field and everyone should wear a helmet if they are playing baseball when
they are batting.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they have to wear a helmet.
Councilmember Sawyer stated there is no ordinance in the City of Shawnee stating a
person has to wear a helmet while playing baseball. He stated maybe they have to if they
play at 3 & 2.
Councilmember Straub asked if there are case studies on that.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not up there to be dived at, but is merely stating that
there is not an ordinance in place for baseball. He stated the City can write ordinances all
day long and he does not understand why anyone would want to go near that place
without a helmet. He stated he has been up to the skatepark and the young men have
asked him if he wants to see certain tricks and they would have no problem padding up
and putting on their helmets to show him.
Councilmember Sawyer stated in this world, they can not protect everybody against
everything as it is physically impossible. He stated he knows the City attorneys, while
they are indeed great, are not the ones who make the final decisions, but it is the 12 jurors
who make the decision on who is going to ultimately pay and they all need to remember
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated they have not seen one single case on it and the
cases they have seen, the cities and governmental entities are granted immunity and not
brought to trial, because as a matter of law in Kansas, those claims are not brought before
a jury. He stated he honestly has not done a case study for claims outside the State of
Kansas and reviewed every case.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 15
Councilmember Pflumm stated basically under this law, they can not take a case to a jury
unless something else is entitled or some other issue happens.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated that is correct.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would not like to be the case study in the City of
Shawnee where the first case ever a judge or a jury decides they could be liable and fork
over the million dollar price tag. She stated never in her entire life would she believe that
a person who knowingly started smoking cigarettes with warning packages saying they
are addictive and bad for you who then dies or becomes ill from cancer from smoking
after his doctor told him 17 times to stop smoking or he will get lung cancer, could sue
someone for making that product and getting him stuck on it and then get millions of
dollars, but she has seen it happen many a time. She stated to her it does not make sense,
but obviously it made sense to 12 jurors somewhere and made sense to a judge
somewhere. She stated all they need is one judge and 12 jurors to decide that it made
sense to them that if they required a helmet and did not go there to stop ‘Johnny’ from
skating without his helmet that the City gets to pay for his medical bills for the rest of his
life because of it. She reiterated that she does not want to be that test case.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is going to assume that the City Attorneys are correct.
She stated her assumption is going to be in this moment, that under no circumstances no
matter what Johnny does skating in their park, if he gets hurt, the City is not liable and
she will go with that. Her question is, is there any legal reason outside of the betterment
of society that would benefit the City of Shawnee to require a helmet.
Assistant City Attorney Rainey stated he sincerely believes this is a policy issue and not a
legal issue. He stated the State legislature determines policy in this state and they could
come back next year and say if a city has a skateboard park and has an injury, they are
100 percent liable. He stated that is a policy decision of the state legislature.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is going to make the assumption that Assistant City
Attorney E. Rainey is 100 percent correct. No matter what happens, the City can not be
held liable for requiring or not requiring helmets in skateboard parks. She stated her
answer to this is what Councilmember Sawyer said earlier, and that is to some extent they
can not protect the world from itself. She stated she does not want the government
deciding how she is going to protect her child. She stated the government is involved in
her life far too often and in far too many ways than she thinks they have a right to be.
She stated this is one of those instances where it is a parent’s decision on how they
choose to determine what their child should or should not be doing and/or as an adult,
they make that decision. She stated she is not going to make that decision for them when
there is no compelling reason that she can see to do so.
Chairperson Sandifer stated he finds it very difficult to make an ordinance they can not
enforce. He stated the City does not have the manpower or time to enforce this and to
him, it is just wrong.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 16
A roll call vote was taken.
Councilmember Pflumm, seconded by Councilmember Straub, moved to recommend the
Council pass an ordinance requiring helmets and safety equipment at the Shawnee
skateboard park, which is acknowledged to be a much more aggressive park than most
skateboard parks in the State of Kansas and give policing authority to the Director of the
Parks and Recreation Department, the Parks and Recreation Department staff, and the
Police Department. The vote was tied 2-2, with Councilmembers Pflumm and Straub
voting “aye” and Councilmembers Sawyer and Sandifer voting “nay.”
Consequently, the item is forwarded to the Council with no recommendation.
4. DISCUSSION OF BUDGET III, CIP OVERVIEW; AND BUDGET IV, SPECIAL
REVENUE FUNDS OVERVIEW.
Chairperson Sandifer stated that this is presentation III and IV of the 2007 Budget
Process. Information on the 2007-2011 Capital Improvement Plan will be presented,
including the impact on the Debt Service Fund of several scenarios. The second part of
the presentation will include a review of the special revenue funds and the ten year plans
that have been developed for those funds.
City Manager Gonzales stated she would set the stage with some background
information. She stated the staff has been throwing around lots of information and ideas
over the last few weeks and she has tried to capture that as best as she could in tonight’s
City Manager Gonzales stated they started out in the budget process with the debt
generally and then went into the debt fund itself at the last meeting. She stated most of
them have had a chance to go over that with Finance Director Kidney, even those who
did not attend the meeting, and that sets a very important foundation for the meeting
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff does an annual presentation to the Shawnee
Tomorrow group and she always tells them that the budget is the most important policy
tool that the Council has, because the direction they give staff for the things they want to
accomplish and the kind of community they want to have does not matter at all if they do
not have the supporting funds. She acknowledged how the Council allocates those funds
through the budget process is very important, so she would remind them all that this is a
long process and takes a lot of time. She apologized for that, but noted this is a very
City Manager Gonzales stated they are not going to ask for any decisions this evening
and obviously they have a lot of material to cover and she realizes they are seeing it for
the first time. She stated they wanted to do it that way somewhat so to be able to explain
it as they go along. She stated the councilmembers can take this information, digest it,
and call staff with any questions. She stated a lot of people have been involved in
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 17
developing this information, so they hope it is pretty comprehensive and all the numbers
City Manager Gonzales stated they will talk this evening about two critical planning tools
that have a lot to do with setting the direction for the City. She stated the choices made at
the July 5, 2006 meeting, is they hope to make decisions about decision packages, the
CIP, and anything that is hanging from the budget process and will have a great impact
on the community and the future of the community. She stated equally important, will be
the decisions made related to the operational funds and the level at which City services
are funded. She stated they will talk about the General Fund at the next two meetings.
City Manager Gonzales stated with that in mind, the staff prepared recommendations for
the Council on the CIP and the special funds. As they did that, they tried hard to think
about the priorities of the Council as they know them, and the direction that the Council
wants to head. She stated that is what she wants to talk about first, so the Council can tell
staff if it is on target and if they get the right feel for where they are headed and what is
important to this Council.
City Manager Gonzales stated the priorities identified tried to capture in words, and
obviously there are many priorities, as it relates to these documents and as it relates to the
big picture. She stated that obviously one important priority is responsible financial
management. She stated as staff identified the needs and developed these plans for five
years and ten years, they were constantly conscious of the financial concerns and that
they really have to be. She stated each of their employees are taxpayers and understand
who they work for, so they identified many needs. There are things that the staff believes
they should do, could do, or would be nice to do. She stated as they brought it all
together, they realized just like at home there is a limited budget available. She stated
they tried to develop plans and options that were within the ability to fit within the
funding assumptions that Finance Director Kidney has been talking about.
City Manager Gonzales stated prior to the General Fund presentation, they will bring the
Council more information about the financial management and organizational efficiency
and how they will accomplish the work they do.
City Manager Gonzales stated another important priority they believe of this Council has
always been to provide service to the community, the operation of the community with
adequate equipment and facilities to do their job. She stated the City has improved their
equipment over the past five to seven years. She stated City employees are very frugal
and can make a piece of equipment last longer than anyone they can imagine. She stated
at some point, that becomes more costly than effective and they know when that point is
when they start spending more on repair and maintenance than what it would take to buy
a new piece of equipment. That is when it is time to come to the Council and budget for a
City Manager Gonzales stated this year they have taken the first step to developing an
equipment replacement program. She stated they had them out in different departments,
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 18
but are now trying to bring them together better in a more organized format to let
everyone see them and understand them. When they begin to talk about how the City
will fund for those over the upcoming years, it will all start to fit together.
City Manager Gonzales stated a few years ago, a space study was performed to look at all
City facilities and determine where they were meeting needs and in what kind of
condition were all of the buildings. Some of the critical points of that study were the
crowded conditions at police headquarters, the poor condition of the parts shop, poor
condition of Fire Station #2, and the pending crowded conditions in City Hall which they
have now reached. She stated the study provided the beginning for the basis of a long
term plan for future facilities. She stated they have double checked the CIP and special
funds and tried to ensure that those facility needs are also incorporated in the long term
planning. Part of that is not just planning for new buildings, or add-ons to existing
buildings or remodels, but obviously large cost maintenance items.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City owns nine buildings, not including Shawnee
Town. The parts shop was built in 1927 and the most recent facility built is the Public
Works shop in 1997. She stated with this number of buildings, there are obviously
maintenance and repair issues that arise and they have also begun to take small steps in
developing more systematic repair plans, so if, for example, all of a sudden a roof starts
leaking and they don’t have money to fix it, they can then plan for those things and
accumulate the needed funds. She stated that staff needs to work more on that plan and
did not spend a lot of time on it this year.
City Manager Gonzales stated technology has become another large cost equipment item
that the City uses to do their business. She stated it is critical, as much as anything, that it
is kept up to date and functioning efficiently. She stated because technology changes so
fast, it is hard to develop a five or ten year plan and even harder to look two years out.
She stated that Information Systems Director Doherty and his staff have worked together
to try to look ahead over the next couple of years to what kind of large cost technology
items are out there that the City will have to do, like to do, or need to do.
City Manager Gonzales stated another high priority of this Council and all Councils
previous to this one, as far as she knows, is to provide quality infrastructure. She stated
the great news today is that the Kansas City Star recognized that Shawnee provides great
infrastructure and are number one on the streets, which was nice. She stated the past
Councils have funded the programs and kept up with the infrastructure. In a 10-year
window, the City built and rebuilt a number of major roads: Woodland; Maurer;
Lackman; 47th Street; Monticello (Johnson Drive to Shawnee Mission Parkway);
Blackfish Parkway; and Pflumm. She stated for a lot of years, the City was keeping up
with the development and building things like Woodland and Blackfish when
development was coming in. The costs of those roads are part of today’s debt.
City Manager Gonzales stated she does not think anyone here will argue that that
investment has paid off. The City has had great projects with great results. She stated
the City still has a lot of roads to do. She stated there are a lot of roads to do from
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 19
Monticello on out west and there are some very significant needs out there with the
development already coming into those areas.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City has maintained their existing roads extremely
well, which is to a great degree what the Kansas City Star assessment was saying today.
She stated the City has tried to fund at least two major rehab programs per year through
the CIP and based on the number of lane miles and arterials that are gaining as years
incremental go by, the need for future rehab projects will increase. She stated the City
has generally matched funding for one CDBG project annually and in the last 10 years
they have curbed and guttered several streets, which are CDBG eligible and done some
drainage projects with that money as well. She stated they still have many streets in this
area that are ditch section streets and remain that way.
City Manager Gonzales stated the Council has also set a high priority on drainage
projects and followed that up by providing two great funding sources; the Parks and Pipes
Sales Tax and Stormwater Utility. This is to help accomplish the many projects the City
has and with those programs the City has made tremendous progress. She stated the City
has invested over $20 million in major capital drainage projects over the past 10 years
and also devoted a lot of operation costs, crews and time, to maintenance. She stated the
City has 10 years remaining now on that Parks and Pipes Fund and will continue to make
a lot of progress with the SMAC projects seen each year.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City still has over 68 projects on the ‘To Do List’, so
there is still plenty to be done and as all of them on the Council know, there are still
plenty of residents who would like the City to do things faster and quicker. She stated the
City has a good program and a good system of prioritizing their projects.
City Manager Gonzales stated over the past 10 years, the City has made amazing
progress in upgrading the parks system. She stated they probably had some catching up
to do and have gone from a good system to what she would argue with the Kansas City
Star’s eight (8) rating on any day, as Shawnee’s park system is, to her, number one and
wonderful. She stated that in addition to the one-third mile, land acquisition is kind of in
support of that, the priorities for Parks and Recreation have primarily been based on, to a
great degree, the surveys taken of the community and brought back to the City Council.
Those surveys have helped guide the direction headed with the parks development.
City Manager Gonzales stated there is some debt financing to discuss and then Parks and
Recreation Director Holman will speak. He has leveraged a lot of grants and outside
funding sources that have really helped the City. She stated in the past 10 years, the City
has purchased 277 acres of parkland and developed five new parks and redeveloped four
of the major parks. She thinks that is a huge statement about the value that this
community has for the parks system.
City Manager Gonzales stated there are still things left to be done in the parks system
area where they still need to meet the one-third of a mile. She stated there are some
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 20
major parks to develop where the land has already been purchased, which is wonderful
that they have that land in inventory.
City Manager Gonzales stated that finally, and probably most importantly at this time, is
it is very clear to her and all the staff that the Council has put a high priority on
supporting and encouraging commercial and industrial development. She stated in the
past three years, the City has had two different strategic planning sessions and are more
systematic and strategic in terms of attracting that kind of development than ever in the
past. There is more time and energy being devoted to that than ever before. She stated
those plans identified a need that the City needs to have a greater percentage of their land
in commercial and industrial appraised value in order to provide future financial stability
in a diverse tax base. She stated the goal has been set at 35 percent and the City is
currently at 26 percent, so they have made progress.
City Manager Gonzales stated she thinks they will all agree that this is a critical time and
that was discussed during the strategic planning sessions. She stated the City is running
out of land for potential commercial development. She stated it is not going to happen
now, or even 10 years from now. They all need to be conscious of that now so they can
identify what they have done through the Land Use Plan to identify areas that have the
potential for commercial and industrial development, so to pave the way for that kind of
development in the future.
City Manager Gonzales stated in this day and age if they really want that to happen, they
must be proactive. Of all the elements of the budget, this is the one she is most
concerned about. She stated over the next few weeks, the staff will be bringing before
the Council a concept for a bioscience district, as this has been something the Council has
talked about for several years. She stated she believes they are all aware there are several
other projects in the works that are being thought about and looked at. All of those
projects will expect and need the City to partner with them. She stated with the current
funding situation, it would be difficult to have the flexibility to step up and do that. She
hopes that as they look at the budget picture as a whole and if this is truly a priority, they
would allocate resources to support that priority, if that is what the Council so chooses.
City Manager Gonzales restated it is very competitive today and there is a lot going on
around them. She stated they have a community to the north and also to the south that
are providing land to developers for commercial development. She stated it is going to
be absolutely critical that the City can be a partner with these folks to hopefully help
accomplish the goal of bringing in that commercial and industrial development.
City Manager Gonzales stated she wanted the Council to hear this, because that is what
the staff discussed as they looked at these plans. She stated hopefully they are on target,
but this information gives them food for thought and they may need to take a different
direction or make some other aspects more of a priority. She stated they have somewhat
of a tag team presentation. She stated the CIP and the special funds overlap, because the
CIP has become a financial planning tool for all the things she just discussed, facilities
and facilities maintenance – the larger cost items. She stated it will help them map out a
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 21
plan and it determines the funding sources, many of those from the Special Revenue
Funds. She stated lots of different departments have been involved, not just the people
here this evening but different groups of employees have worked together to prepare
plans and set priorities.
City Manager Gonzales stated they will begin with the CIP and because it is
predominantly funded by the Debt Service Fund, it is important to think about the debt
presentations heard. Finance Director Kidney will refer to those as they go through the
various components of the presentation. She stated the staff has prepared two scenarios
tonight on the CIP and tonight the committee does not have to pick anything. She stated
these are just points of departure for discussion to give the Council some sense of what
can be funded and what can not. She stated obviously there is room in the middle and
room further out, but based on those priorities, staff developed these two scenarios.
City Manager Gonzales stated the first scenario would be No New Debt funded projects
over the next five years. She stated based on the debt projects discussed, the staff felt
that was an option that needed to be considered. She stated even with that option, an
infusion of money would have to come from somewhere to help pay for the current debt.
She stated there are projects in that model, because some of those projects are funded
through special funds.
City Manager Gonzales stated the second scenario, which they have been calling the Bare
Bones behind the scenes, requires additional funding, about $2.1 million annually to go
forward. She stated it does fund some new debt projects and staff picked projects based
on those priorities, looking at things that would drive economic development, as well as
facilities and equipment needs. It does not include many projects that have been on the
CIP in the past. She stated Public Works Director Freyermuth will walk through the
projects in each of those scenarios and also the list of what she is calling unfunded
projects, which is part of what might be a third scenario, which was not created. She
stated it would be a CIP which could be created, which will be similar to ones they have
had in the past.
City Manager Gonzales asked the Council to keep in mind that the CIPs from the past
were not funded. She stated she knows some of them remember Mr. Montague saying
“This is not funded past 2007 . . .”, and here they are in 2007. She stated the CIPs being
shown this evening will be funded with $2.1 million or funded with some infusion of
cash into it, but much less than $2.1 million. Public Works Director Freyermuth will
begin with the No New Debt projects.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the first category is the Completed Projects but
Not Bonded. He stated that will be the same for either of the two scenarios they are
looking at because these are already completed projects and they do need to go ahead and
work with the debt service to actually pay off the projects.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the first project in this category is Shawnee
Mission Parkway, Phase III, which was just finished from Quivira to Pflumm Road.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 22
There is the Johnson Drive and Woodsonia Drive signalization completed this last year.
The 67th Street Rehabilitation – Quivira Road to Switzer Road which was actually
finished a couple years ago and was a small rehab project. There is the Justice
Center/Fire Station #2 – Land Acquisition, Downtown Streetscape, Monticello Road &
61st Street Signalization, and Swarner Park Improvements with the skatepark being
completed this past spring.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the projects currently underway are Pioneer
Crossing Park, the East Swimming Pool, and a Bridge Repair Project on Shawnee
Mission Parkway primarily, although it does include Renner Road and a few others they
will eventually work on.
Councilmember Straub asked what Completed but Not Bonded means.
Public Works Director Freyermuth responded that bonded means the City has actually
sold bonds that they will then have a commitment to pay back over a specified period of
Councilmember Straub asked if they have not sold the bonds on the first seven.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered that is correct. He stated on all of these
projects, they would temporarily finance. He stated with some of these projects, like the
Shawnee Mission Parkway Phase III, it had a lot of outside funding – CARS and Federal
funding that was paid as they went, but there was a section or portion of that project that
was temporarily financed until now, when it is time to sell long term bonds that the City
will pay annual payments over a specified period of time selected for the bond period.
He stated they would then pay that through funds each year over that period of time to
pay off the bond.
Councilmember Straub asked if those are the numbers there in front of them.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered that is correct – General Obligation Bonds
will be used to do the long term debt financing for these projects. He stated this would
just be the category that they are at the stage where all the construction work is done and
now it is time to package them up and have a bond issue that would do the funding for
Councilmember Pflumm asked why they did not go ahead and use all the Parks and Pipes
money for the Swarner Park project, as opposed to issuing $600,000 in G.O. bonds.
Public Works Director Freyermuth deferred to Finance Director Kidney or Parks and
Recreation Director Holman, but stated he assumes it was probably cash flow. On some
of the projects they were doing and at the time they were doing them, they might not have
had the cash flow of those Parks and Pipes funds.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 23
Councilmember Pflumm stated they did have extra money in Parks and Pipes that the
City did not use and took some money out of the General Fund on, at least, some parks.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman confirmed that the City got $182,000 in grants.
He stated this was the first Parks and Pipes tax that was ending and there was $300,000
left, so they did the skatepark. He stated the rest was bonded because they had not yet
received the second Parks and Pipes.
Councilmember Pflumm asked Parks and Recreation Director Holman if he is telling him
the Parks and Pipes fund is down to zero. He stated he understood that was not the issue
last year when he spoke with Mr. Montague about it. He stated he was told the City just
did not want to deplete that account.
City Manager Gonzales stated she hates to plead ignorance, but does not know that
anyone here can answer exactly why choices were made to pay out of the special funds
and out of the debt finance, but knows in the past some of the City’s park projects were
debt financed. She stated part of the plans they will see tonight would be to finance the
park programs from the special funds, so they have developed a plan based on what Parks
and Pipes will bring in and what the other park funds will bring in for the next 10 years to
fund out of Parks and Pipes.
Councilmember Straub asked if they are doing the East Swimming Pool from the Parks
and Pipes Fund.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied no, as it is a project that was planned for debt
financing from a number of years ago and actually includes a portion of outside funding.
City Manager Gonzales added it is from the school tax.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated there is special revenue funding with it, as well
as a portion of that is debt service.
Councilmember Pflumm explained to Councilmember Straub that the City gets a portion
of the sales tax that goes to the Shawnee Mission School District. He stated when they
were looking at the East Pool on funding, the Council agreed to earmark the City’s part
of the tax for that purpose.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the projects currently being worked on this year
that still have not gone out for construction bids or contract, but are all well in the design
phase with most of them finished, would be the 52nd Street & Charles Street Drainage,
which is actually out for bid, but they have not taken bids yet and believes they will on
June 16th. Next is Vahalla Street Drainage, which is 90 percent complete on design and
ready to go to bid later this summer, probably in the next 30 to 45 days. Holiday Drive –
I-435 to Locust Street, which is a benefit district, property owner paid project. It also is
relatively complete on design and should be going out for bid later this summer. Justice
Center/Fire Station #2, a reduced scope is included in this group which is funded through
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 24
special revenue funds and this would be the sales tax for the public safety project. The
Water Tower Park project would be another park project which will be funded through
special revenue funds and does not have any debt associated bonds associated with any of
these projects for the future.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next group are Debt Projects Underway and
projects that are in this year’s CIP that the Public Works engineering staff have already
started work on, similar to the last slide. These all have a large component of debt
service, or at least a component, and several of them are not quite as large of a debt
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the first project on the list is 51st Street –
Rosehill Road to Quivira Drive and this is another project that is complete with design
and ready to go to bid any day. He stated the only reason it has not yet, is because of the
large water main that goes along 51st Street has been a very difficult part of this project
for the Water District to get their facility located for the City to move along with their
construction. He stated the City held off on bidding the project, so they would hopefully
have a pretty clear corridor for the contractor to come in and really hit the job quickly and
get things done, so not to drag out the project for a long time. He stated that
unfortunately, the Water District has had a very difficult time working with the large 36
inch distribution main.
Councilmember Straub asked if half of that is paid for by CARS.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied a large portion is paid by CARS. He stated
that $3.5 million is the rough number for money coming from the County. He explained
that CARS is the county road assistance program that the City applies for each year. He
stated for 20 years now, the City has received some type of funding from the CARS
program each year to help them along with a large number of road projects. He stated the
City has done roughly $87-88 million worth of projects over the last 10 years, just on
street projects – total value. This is not all City-funded and some would be federal
funding and some is CARS funding. He stated that there has been a lot of street work
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with 47th Street – Mund Road to Woodland
Avenue. He stated that project is out for bid right now and they will be taking contractor
bid quotes on June 16th as well. He stated 47th Street does have some federal funding
involved. The City received some Congestion Mitigation Air Quality (CMAQ) money
because they have bicycle lanes that tie in with existing bicycle lanes to the west.
Johnson Drive – Renner Road Intersection Improvements is the continuation of the first
phase of that project they have already let for contract. They have a contract with Teague
Electric to install the traffic signal at Johnson Drive and Renner. This would be to do
improvements to the section of Johnson Drive to the west to raise the elevation on that
section of the road. He stated it has been somewhat of a site distance concern for the City
for a number of years, so they are looking at the $630,000 project to do that and it is
about 50 percent complete in the design.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 25
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the 75th Street Rehabilitation – Switzer Road to
Quivira Road is another CARS funded projects and the rest is City funding to redo curbs
as needed, sidewalk repairs as needed, put in City owned street lights to fill in where they
do not have lights along that section currently, and complete and redo pavement and
pavement markings. King Street (Ice House Site) Parking Lot is a project that was talked
about earlier this evening that would be working with a rebuild of King Street and
preparing a parking lot on the ice house property. That will be underway and will go out
to bid later this summer.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if there is any portion of that million dollars that is being
used for the ice house parking lot from the school sales tax.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied he does not believe so.
City Manager Gonzales stated there is CDBG money in that project, but not the school
sales tax. She stated the school sales tax was actually a resolution of the Council that
stated that that funding would be for aquatic facilities. The Council will see when they
go over that special fund, that the staff has specifically identified that.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with the Renner Road Street Lighting – 65th
Street to 79th Street. He stated that project also is about 90 percent complete on design
work and ready to go out for bid at any time. He stated the 47th Street & K-7 Highway
Signalization would have preliminary plans coming before the Council next Monday
night and will need the Council’s review and approval on signalizing that intersection.
Councilmember Straub asked why KDOT is not involved.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied that KDOT in involved in that it is their
facility, so they control it, but their normal policy is that they would rather not have
signals on their facilities, so it is left up to local communities to signalize, maintain, and
operate those signals. The City operates the one at Johnson Drive currently and the one
at 43rd Street on K-7 and had to build both of those signals. The City actually did get
some assistance on Johnson Drive originally back in 1991 when that was put in. There
was some shared cost with KDOT. On this particular location, they do not have funding
through their Comprehensive Highway Program (CHP) and have limited funding with
that to meet the projects they had planned to do during the 10-year period of that CHP.
They were unable to fund anything on this project.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next slide shows the additional projects in
the No New Debt scenario, but these would be some of the additional projects that would
be on the list for future years 2007 through 2011. They primarily show the first category
CDBG projects at roughly $170,000 outside funding that the City anticipates receiving
each year. He stated the next seven projects are drainage projects and all will be funded
with 75 percent County SMAC funding, with a 25 percent match by the City. He stated
these would be handled through the 50 percent portion of the Parks and Pipes funding,
the pipes portion of that special revenue fund.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 26
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next two are equipment items for fire
equipment and that would be funded through special revenue funds. The next six
projects are Parks projects funded through special revenue funds. The last project on that
list, Silverheel Street – 6900 Block to 71st Street - is an anticipated benefit district and
again a property-owner financed project.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that scenario for a CIP plan would be a No New
Debt scenario and just include projects that could be funded through special revenues.
He stated transfers from the General Fund would be needed for current outstanding debt
payments and payments for debt projects started, but not completed. He stated when he
says no new debt, it would be a new five year program from 2007 on out. There would
be the current projects underway that would have a need for debt service.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that the only new projects added would be paid
from special funds. Several projects already begun may need to be delayed or stopped in
order to not deplete General Fund reserves. He stated they really do not have all the
details yet on what the impact would be on the General Fund to make the transfers into
the debt service in order to fund these projects, so those are some issues they are still
working with, on just which of the projects that has debt service associated with them
would need to maybe be delayed and not yet constructed this year.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it gives up over $22 million in outside funds to
other cities and that is a concern of staff. They have always tried to work to leverage
each City dollar to spend for capital and try to work with outside funding sources so they
can make the most of public improvements and it has worked well for them. He stated
with the SMAC program alone, they have done about $22-23 million projects over the
past 10 years and out of that $22 million, the City has only spent about $7 million of their
own funds. He added there are other good examples of federal funds received.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with no flexibility for projects that come
up, e.g. economic development, emergencies, etc. He stated if they have a problem with
a bridge, road, or failure around a culvert or something of that nature, things do come up
from time to time where they have to add a project and keep things open and going. He
stated with this particular scenario, there would be limited opportunities to make any
adjustments to cover those kinds of emergencies or opportunities for economic
development that would arise.
Public Works Director Freyermuth next presented the Bare Bones scenario and stated it
includes some debt service projects, but at a limited number. He showed a list of projects
that would be added that the City would be able to do with this Bare Bones Scenario.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the first project would be the Justice
Center/Fire Station additional costs for the full scope of the project and they show that as
an additional $8 million beyond the special revenue associated with that project. The
next project is another building project – the Safety Center Remodel – that once vacating
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 27
the current police facility, they would need to do remodeling work in order to make use
of that facility for some of the other building needs they have throughout the City
Councilmember Straub asked if the Justice Center cost went up a lot.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied this would cover the higher number
anticipated for the current estimates on the project. He stated $20 million was shown on
the No New Debt Service slides earlier and $20 million is what the special revenue
projections could be handled through that fund. He stated the $8 million here would be
debt service that would add to that $20 million to come up with the number being
proposed at this point and anticipating what that facility would cost. He stated now that
they have programming accomplished and have a site where they know they will be
putting the building and know some of the conditions on the site and some of the utility
issues needed. They now have a lot better account of information to estimate the cost.
They are looking at something in the neighborhood of $28 million for that project.
Councilmember Pflumm stated that is what they have already spent, so if they add that in,
they are probably talking around $30 million with the land.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct – the land and cleanup was the
one also shown earlier that still needs to be bonded that was about $2.5 million and was
the earlier cost that has already been spent.
Councilmember Kuhn asked about the special fund for the Justice Center, as it does not
have a sunset on it, so someday somewhere along the line, there will be money still
coming in that will equate to that $8 million, but that money obviously can not be spent
on anything except things associated with criminal justice, which is fine. Her question is,
if they go with the larger scope and pay the $8 million now, can they pay back the $8
million to the General Fund to use for something else at a later date once they have
maxed past that $20 million, or do they then just take things that would normally be paid
through General Obligation, but would fall under the scope of criminal justice and move
it to that special fund at a later date.
Finance Director Kidney replied that the $20 million that is able to be paid for out of the
special revenue funds, and they will see the special revenue fund projections after Public
Works Director Freyermuth’s presentation, they took the current sales tax coming in and
projected out for 20 years. He stated it is a no sunset, so they can project out even further
than 20 years, but after five years they are getting pretty speculative on the sales tax
projections. He stated with a 20-year revenue stream of that sales tax, staff feels they can
bond enough to have construction costs covered up to $20 million and that is where the
$20 million comes from. He stated they do not have a sunset, so one of the options
would be to make it a 30-year bond. He stated that is a recommendation that the staff is
not interested in doing again. The scope of the building itself, at best, would be a 20 year
solution, so it is issuing a 30 year bond for a 20 year solution. Plus, by that time, they
will not be getting as much bang for their buck on the bond.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 28
Finance Director Kidney stated some of the items they are talking about, such as
borrowing from one fund to pay the other fund, can certainly be explored further but he is
City Manager Gonzales stated any capital projects that might be 20 years from now that
are criminal justice related could and would be funded from that, so there would be the
Councilmember Kuhn stated in looking at the bigger picture, she is trying to figure out a
sense of balance. She asked if her answer to it is that she thinks it is worth $8 million
now because she thinks that the people said they want this to pay for it, and replied that
she does not know. She stated her question becomes 20 years from now, she does not
want to be spending that $8 million from the General Fund just to be spending it and be
able to recoup back. She stated if there are four things that come up in 20 years that
normally would have come from General Obligation Bonds but would fit under their
criminal justice, she wonders if they could not recoup that $8 million there to some
Councilmember Pflumm stated they really can’t, because they can only debt service the
Councilmember Kuhn stated she can for 20 years, but after that another 20 years from
then there should be another $20 million, speculatively.
Finance Director Kidney stated at the end of the project, and their hope would be that
these numbers are too conservative on the revenue projections and they could pay the
bonds off, but as he understands the sales tax question, it does allow them to pay for other
public safety items, other than the justice center obviously, so there are things they could
Councilmember Sawyer stated one thing they can pay for at the end of 20 years is another
justice center. He stated they don’t talk about all the life of these buildings, but talk
about building a justice center. It will not last forever. He stated they almost would have
to go out and have a million dollar study performed to get everyone comfortable with
this, but thinks everyone sitting there knows it is double what they originally told the
people it was going to be. He stated they all know it will not be 20 years before they
come ask to make it bigger and he doubts it will even take eight years.
City Manager Gonzales stated the programming is actually based on 10 years and
Councilmember Sawyer is absolutely correct.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated some of it more than 10 years, but part of it is
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 29
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks it is great to put these buildings in here, but if
they do not have a life expectancy on what the asset is really going to be used as, they are
just throwing out numbers to him. He stated in the real world, it will last “X” number of
years and they will add on and replace portions, as these facilities do not last forever.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated there is only a certain length of time that they
are set out to handle. He stated that is a little hard to determine, because they are in a
growing city so they do not know exactly how quickly certain things will occur, but they
do know that there is an expected life expectancy for those facilities before they will have
to be added on to and remodeled. He stated City Hall was the same way and assumed to
be at least a strong 10 to 20 year building also and they are at about 16 years now from
the last remodel. They are getting into the same situation. They knew it would only have
a strong 10-year life and did not know how close they would get to 20 years.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that frankly they have been very lucky on the justice
center on Quivira Road. He stated it was built in 1976, so they have gotten a good 10-15
years extra out of it than what was originally anticipated or they even should have gotten
out of it, as there is some overcrowding out there that is unreal. He has seen it
City Manager Gonzales stated they will bring the justice center project before the Council
on July 5, 2006, prior to the Council having to make decisions about this CIP. She stated
the Council will be provided a lot more background and information before they have to
make a decision on the CIP. She stated staff plugged it in the way they did, again, based
on the priorities they see and the things in which they thought they were committed.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued with the remaining projects from the Bare
Bones scenario. He stated the CDBG projects are shown again, but at $370,000 which is
just a $200,000 match by the City to make those a little more appropriate numbers for a
reasonable sized project to accomplish with the CDBG funds. The next four projects are
IT projects for Disaster Planning/Business Continuity Equipment, Replace the City
Phone System at all Locations, Wireless Communication for Disaster Planning/Business
Continuity, and Replace Safety Center Generator.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next five projects are street projects, all of
which are on the current program and ones that staff felt were of the highest priority to
continue to try to move those projects along: K-7 Frontage Road – Clear Creek Parkway
to 66th Street, there is a lot of potential for economic development along that stretch of
the road. The 43rd Street Bridge over Kansas River Tributary and the City has Federal
funding for that project at approximately $900,000. He stated Monticello Road –
Midland Drive to 7900 Block is the project they started design on just about one month
ago. He stated approved contracts start the design for that project. Monticello Road –
Johnson Drive to Shawnee Mission Parkway will widen that to a four lane facility.
Shawnee Mission Parkway – Pflumm Road to Lackman Road is another project with
federal funding at approximately $5.5 million.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 30
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in the Bare Bones scenario they still give up
about $17 million in outside funding, since the City is really not showing an eligible
street project for CARS funding each year and would not be funding all the SMAC
projects that would be available to do, but would take debt service in order to accomplish
all those projects. This would have no flexibility for projects that would come up either
as economic development opportunities or emergency projects that would need to be
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the Clear Creek Parkway overpass over K-7 is
still in the works with KDOT, as a KDOT-funded project for the future and is actually
tied in with the Johnson Drive and K-7 Highway project. He stated they are at least in
agreement with KDOT that when they would fund the Johnson Drive/K-7 interchange
project, at the same time they would fund and do an overpass at Clear Creek Parkway. It
easily could be another five to ten years, with a minimum of five as they hear from
KDOT. It could even be 10-12 years. He stated each Federal Transportation Program is
about a 6-7 year program and the current one goes to 2009, so if it was at the end of that
program it could be 2016 before it might possibly come up with funding.
Public Works Director Freyermuth continued that it would be federal funding and
possibly KDOT. He stated a new highway program by KDOT might include that project
as part of the state funding, so it could come either way as far as that goes. He stated they
would definitely need state or federal funding to assist.
City Manager Gonzales stated they would expect City participation in those as well.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in the unfunded projects, he did want to show a
list of a lot of projects that have been on a prior CIP over the past five to six years. One
project would be a match for the Johnson Drive and K-7 interchange project. He grouped
them by the different project types with the first group buildings. There is the Parks
Department shop, which is the building that was discussed earlier that was built in 1929
and is definitely a need for the City to do a new facility. He stated there is the
Community Center Aquatic Facility which is the west facility they discussed and have
land acquisition in the plans shown earlier. There is the Fire Station #3 addition, Salt
Storage Cover at Public Works Service Center, Fire Station #4, Storage Garage at Public
Works Service Center, City Hall Expansion, and Civic Centre Addition. He stated these
are all projects that they definitely see a need for in the next 5 to 10 year period. He
stated it will be difficult to address a lot of these issues in the future, if they are not able
to get some of these things going sometime in the near future.
Councilmember Straub asked about the City Hall expansion.
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained when they did the space needs study, there
was going to be more office space required at the City Hall facility. It will be some type
of an addition to supply that additional office space at City Hall.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 31
Councilmember Straub asked if some people from City Hall will move to the new Justice
Center when it is complete.
City Manager Gonzales replied there will only be around seven people moving to the new
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it will free up some space, but will be very
limited to what needs are projected with the growing community. He stated the growing
community is what is requiring additional space for additional staff that has occurred in
Councilmember Straub asked if $8 million will give them enough space.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he actually does not recall right now just how
many square feet is projected to provide for a City Hall expansion. He stated that is
coming from the study performed four or five years ago and it was very limited. He
stated it was something that was put together just to give some kind of indication of what
needs would be coming in the future. He stated they knew they needed some plan for
what was coming for sure at some time. He stated there was not a lot of detail in that
study and as they are seeing in the Justice Center project, once they get into more details
they learn a lot more facts and figures. This number could change in the future, but they
know the project is out there and will most likely be this amount or possibly more, once
they know more of the specifics.
Councilmember Straub asked if the bare bones projects are not funded.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they are not in either of those two scenarios.
He stated the two plans they did show with the $2.1 million of additional funding in the
Bare Bones scenario would be a funded program and the first one, No New Debt, is
funded with a transfer from the General Fund and does need an infusion of funds from
the General Fund to cover current debt payments coming in 2007.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they are only going to get two of these if they get their
Public Works Director Freyermuth agreed that there are quite a few things on the list.
City Manager Gonzales stated these are part of what the staff has tried to look out to in
the future and plan for what they will need. These are not projects that will happen
overnight, but she thinks it is helpful to have them written down somewhere, have an idea
of what they are going to cost, and know which are priorities, so they can begin to think
Councilmember Goode stated it is no different than the way they have operated over the
last 20 years. He stated they have always planned ahead 9 to 10 years.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 32
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they have always had lists of possible projects
they knew would be coming in the future. He stated in a growing community, there are a
lot of future needs for capital infrastructure to keep up.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they show four drainage projects and again
would be supported with County SMAC funds. He stated Equipment and Park shows
two projects; one park project west of K-7 Highway and a Fire Truck for Station #4.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Public Works Director Freyermuth if the staff went back
and looked at the CIP numbers. He stated these are way out there on the wish list, so he
is talking about the ones back in the Bare Bones scenario.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied they have all been looked at, reviewed, and
additional dollars added where it appears it is needed.
Councilmember Sawyer replied that he thought so, but wanted to make sure.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they were all reviewed. He continued with
street projects and noted there are quite a few streets listed. 75th Street – K-7 Highway
Intersection Improvements, Quivira Road and Neiman Road Rehab projects, Mize Road
– 71st Street to 79th Street, which has been on the list since the elementary school was put
in on Mize Road. There is a Nieman Road at 51st Street. There are a number of projects
and yet another list the same size that contains a lot more streets in the western section, as
well as a lot of they have attempted to put on the CIP in the past to do in the eastern
section of the City, such as Flint Avenue – Johnson Drive to 62nd Street, Goddard Avenue
– Johnson Drive to 55th Street, 62nd Terrace – Quivira Road to Flint.
Councilmember Goode stated they have been working on Goddard for a while.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated these have been on the list in the past for quite
a few years, but quite a few projects were removed in 2003 when they cut about $52
million off the CIP. It was around $160 million at the time and last year it was at $125
million. The No New Debt service has $31 million in projects, but this is for the five
years into the future. He stated the Bare Bones scenario would be about $80 million
worth of total cost of projects.
Councilmember Straub asked if any of these are funded by developers.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated very few would meet any requirements,
because once the City changed to the excise tax system of funding the capital projects for
roads, they kind of remove some of the major cost sharing for developers because they
pay it up front just in that excise tax. He stated there are still some roads that come up
occasionally that a benefit district would be proposed and used to help fund the project,
but usually that would be in place of receiving excise tax from that development.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 33
Councilmember Pflumm asked about Flint Avenue and if there is any way the City can
apply some of the stormwater utility funds to possibly help out with the drainage situation
at that location. He stated he has heard many people mention that the ditches are deep
Public Works Director Freyermuth confirmed that some of the ditches on the east side are
fairly deep on that road. He stated it is possible they could look into some kind of a
project that could combine some of the utility fees. He stated if they are used for
drainage enhancement they would qualify.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he is talking about before they get to the project itself,
could they do something about that deep ditch.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the only problem with that is that it is hard to
tie in any drainage improvements without the curbs and gutters to feed the water to the
curb inlets, but they can look at some of those. He stated those are some things they will
look at with the stormwater utility locations, where some significant drainage problems
exist and there really is no flooding, but still a problem that funding could be used for,
where SMAC funding would not be eligible.
Public Works Director Freyermuth presented the remaining list of streets and traffic
projects. He stated there are several traffic locations where signals will be required in the
future, plus a few projects like buying out KCP&L equipment, which in the long run
saves money but costs something up front to do and is the only reason it has not been
done for the past 20-some years.
Chairperson Sandifer asked how many more lights does KCP&L own in the City.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered that the City still leases 2,000 lights out of
approximately 6,000 and this is just lighting and not traffic signals.
Chairperson Sandifer asked if this is the last of the leased traffic signals.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied yes. Phase I and Phase II would propose to
buy out all of KCP&L. He stated they still would have some KPL, the other electric
district that serves this area. There are about 190-200 lights that they have not proposed
to do much with and feel long term savings to the City would be to do the KCP&L
system first and then follow with KPL. He stated they also have the KPL traffic signal
buyout, which is something they attempted to do a couple years ago but the numbers
ended up being in error and actually would have cost way too much with what they had
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the City really saves money by owning them.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 34
Councilmember Sawyer stated if it breaks, the City has to buy a new one and replace it.
He stated they have to now hire two or three people to repair the lights and need the
equipment to do the repairs. He really questions how the staff can tell the Council it is
actually cheaper to own these lights than to merely lease them.
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained there are a couple of issues to it, but
Councilmember Sawyer has a good point. He stated it is not a quick payoff, but over
long term it would be. He stated the City already has all the equipment and most of the
manpower needed, because they currently own and maintain approximately 50 signals.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they then need to be a little faster in fixing them. He
stated 67th and Quivira has been flashing for a day and a half.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is a KCP&L light and it was called into
them. He stated he would also mention that the City would get to the repairs quicker if
they owned the lights.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he could really argue that the City can not afford to own
these if they are carrying replacement parts.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated for the controller, they do. He stated with 50
plus signals, they have to do repairs in order to keep the system up and running.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they put all that cost against that, or does it sit out in ‘La
La Land’. He questioned how the City can own this light and it has a lifespan like
everything else and has to be replaced.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is why he is saying it is long term.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not saying they are doing it at a loss, but doing a lot
more than what the City is so they spread out their cost.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if it is any different than people who lease credit card
service machines and pay a lot more in the long run to lease that machine, versus just
purchasing a POS system. Most businesses lease them because of the long term month
by month minimal payment, versus the larger up front charge.
Councilmember Sawyer stated light bulbs have to be replaced more often than worrying
about a credit card machine.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she wishes that was true.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is true. He stated they have to replace light bulbs.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not know if that is accurate or not.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 35
Councilmember Sawyer stated they are getting into another business now and he is not
sure they need to do that.
Councilmember Pflumm stated KCP&L is not doing it for free.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not saying they are.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated there is a pretty good cost to lease them, around
$80,000 per year, so it is a sizeable number.
Councilmember Sawyer asked $80,000 over how long.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied each year. He called for questions.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Financial Impact of CIP Scenarios. He
reiterated the Total G.O. Debt column. He stated, as the Council can see, the City has
been doing a lot of debt issues for the CIP projects. These are ones that are constructed
completed, but not bonded, the ones under construction, and the current projects. He
mentioned the presentation he made last month which talked about it representing
approximately $19 million worth of bonds that need to be issued.
Finance Director Kidney stated the City has depleted the fund balances within the Debt
Service Fund. He stated beginning in 2007, the fund balance line will go negative, unless
they start making up the deficit between the income and the expenditures. He stated
expenditures are over income and he wanted to reiterate that and that is what this process
has been like over the past couple of weeks with the team working on the CIP projects.
He stated they have tried to get something in there that will balance out in the future for
revenues and expenditures, the debt service, depending on what scenario the Council
Finance Director Kidney stated transfers in the first couple years are close to $2.1 million
and would be needed from the General Fund to the Debt Service Fund. He stated after
talking with Springsted, the City’s financial advisor who markets the bonds, they are not
yet in a panic state as the City does have fairly decent fund balances in the General Fund.
He stated staff does need to work on bringing to the Council some policies on what are
the fund balances – what is the 58 percent. He asked if they are for rainy day funds or for
pay-as-you-go type projects.
Finance Director Kidney stated that coming into the fall, they will be coming back to
actually designating exactly of that fund balance how much are for certain projects. He
stated they do know at some point if they do not put additional funds into the Debt
Service Fund, they will be pulling $2.1 to $3.0 million each year from the General Fund
into the Debt Service Fund. He stated within a couple of years, Moody’s the bond rating
company, will be very concerned.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 36
Finance Director Kidney stated when the City is dropping the fund balances in the
General Fund, a lot of questions will come up from Moody’s about the current bond
rating. He thinks City Manager Gonzales had asked him about the actual fiscal impact to
that if the City’s bond rating does go down. He stated they would have the fiscal impact,
because they would have a lot harder time selling the bonds they are issuing and therefore
the interest expense would be higher. He stated he does not have an exact dollar of what
that would be, but it is certainly of great concern.
Councilmember Goode stated Moody’s looks at assets as well.
Finance Director Kidney stated in a for profit business they look at assets, but the
problem with the City’s assets is that they make up such a huge amount of the balance
sheet. The City can not sell a street to make a debt payment as opposed to a for profit
business that could liquidate their assets to make debt payments.
Councilmember Goode stated it would be the physical product like a building or a
Finance Director Kidney continued with special revenue funds. He stated that basically
the City has a General Fund that funds most of the general operations of the City and that
is where they see most of the administration, finance, police and fire services – all the
things the City does. He stated the City also has a Debt Service Fund and they have
talked about this fund with regard to the CIP and the impact to the Debt Service Fund
from the CIP.
Finance Director Kidney stated the City also has approximately 14 special revenue funds.
He stated the special revenue funds are when certain revenues have been earmarked to
only be used for a specific purpose. He stated whether or not it has been a Council action
and they have specified the earmark for that money, or whether it has been a sales tax that
was passed and it was decided that tax would only be used for the Parks and Pipes as a
special revenue fund. He stated some state statutes will determine the tax the City
receives from narcotics is used only for “this or that” item.
Finance Director Kidney stated he understands in the past, that the City has not spent a
lot of time on the special revenue funds and felt it was pretty important this year. One of
the things the staff did this year was to take the planning out. He stated the staff took the
special revenue projections out 10 years and by doing that, they are able to take items
sometimes that were going to be spent out of Debt Service or out of the General Fund and
have been able to move it into a special revenue funds, so it does not have the impact on
the property taxes or does not have the impact on the Debt Service Fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated when Councilmember Pflumm asked about taking funds
and moving them around, hopefully he will see the City has made long term plans.
Finance Director Kidney stated he will give a quick summary of each fund and in a lot of
cases will hand off to a department head or someone else to make a presentation for the
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 37
items in that particular fund. He started with is the Convention and Visitors Fund and
stated it is funded from the 5% transient guest tax charged at the hotels within the City of
Shawnee. He stated the special purpose of this is that it is only used for convention and
tourism promotion in the City. He stated all these funds are set up in the same format
starting with beginning fund balance, revenue source, a couple years of history, 2006
revised budget, and a projection out to 2015.
Finance Director Kidney stated in the Convention and Visitors Fund, the assumption is
basically that the City has 2.5 percent growth in the revenue for the occupancy tax over
the next 10 years and that does not include new hotels. He stated using the long term
plans on this, if a new hotel was built this would obviously change next year.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if there is a cap on the 2.5 percent growth that they assume,
based on the number of rooms. She stated at one point, if the City has 200 rooms, they
have 200 rooms and can’t get any more, or does it assume a higher tax based on the fact
they assume the cost of a hotel will go up each year.
Finance Director Kidney replied he did not get that complicated and just used 2.5 percent.
He stated that could be obviously a result for more occupancy or the price of the hotel.
He stated they look at and will update these funds each year.
Finance Director Kidney stated this year they have four main expenditures and have an
agreement with the Convention and Visitors Bureau. He stated the City basically takes
the revenues from this fund. In the past they have taken $10,000 for Old Shawnee Days
and split the remainder with half going to the Convention and Visitors Bureau. He stated
the other half is transferred into the General Fund as revenue and those are used for
Convention and Visitor type activities within the General Fund, which is basically
City Manager Gonzales stated it is not that clear. It comes into the fund and Shawnee
Town spends out of the General Fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated in 2006, the Council asked for $10,000 to be given as a
grant to Wonderscope, so that is reflected in 2006. He stated also, the $10,000 that they
would normally see for Old Shawnee Days in 2006 was for $20,000.
Chairperson Sandifer stated it was supposed to be from then on for two hotels.
City Manager Gonzales stated at that time, they discussed that. She confirmed that she
looked back in the minutes and they just talked about it. She stated during this budget
process that would be discussed and have to be voted on by the Council as part of the
2007 budget. If the Council wants to make this change, they can certainly do so.
Councilmember Sawyer stated this $105,000 is just a projection and not the real deal.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 38
Councilmember Sawyer asked if 2005 are actual numbers.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if the Wonderscope $10,000 is a one time grant.
City Manager Gonzales replied that is another issue. She stated during the discussion at
the committee meeting and with the City Council, she believes it was left open, but that is
something the Council might want to consider doing in the future. She stated they have
Wonderscope scheduled to come in sometime in the next few weeks before they have to
make a decision about this budget to talk about what they intend to do with the grant
money. That might be the time for the Council to decide if they would want to approve
an additional $10,000 for Wonderscope. She believes Linda Leeper has visited with
them as well and may have more information.
Finance Director Kidney stated the other assumption is that in the past, the amount the
City budgeted for the Convention and Visitor’s Bureau is only the amount they send. He
stated in 2005, they received more money than they anticipated in that tax and allocated
that extra amount to the Convention and Visitor’s Bureau, so that is why a different
amount is seen on that line item. He stated the Convention and Visitor’s Bureau received
$81,823 and the transfer to the General Fund is limited just to the original budget of
$73,403. That is why they see fund balance actually building up in this fund, because
they had not transferred all the amount they received from that tax.
Finance Director Kidney stated when they are speaking about $20,000 a year further out
or $10,000 extra, they do have fund balances in this fund. He stated, again, all these
plans are a recommendation from staff and the Council obviously has the authority to
make changes to the assumptions and to the funding plan.
Finance Director Kidney turned the presentation over to Linda Leeper and Mary
Cummings who will make the presentation for the Convention and Visitors Bureau.
MARY CUMMINGS, Manager, Shawnee Convention and Visitors Bureau (CVB), stated
there is detailed information included in the packet and they are here to present a brief
overview of what they do, a few recent accomplishments, and plans for the future. She
stated the organization operates under their bylaws and within the framework of the CVB
committee appointed by the Mayor and approved by the Governing Body. It has
expanded through the years to include several business representatives, as well as hotel
and other tourism-related businesses.
MARY CUMMINGS stated she would begin with the mission of the CVB. She stated
they are also considered in the industry lingo as a destination marketing organization
which exists to promote the tourism of the Shawnee area, including the attractions. She
stated this includes hotels, restaurants, and other tourism-related businesses to make an
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 39
impact within the community. She stated she will briefly review some accomplishments
over the past 12 months and noted there is detailed information in the packet.
MARY CUMMINGS stated that basically the CVB has been publishing the Images of
Shawnee magazine for four years. They recently published the 2006 edition and worked
through the State and several other distribution outlets to get that distributed throughout
the State. She anticipates about 7,000 will be distributed throughout the year at different
events and outlets throughout the State of Kansas.
MARY CUMMINGS stated they also placed print advertising that they estimate will net
over 500,000 views by potential visitors and these are through the State’s official tourism
guides through local and regional publications. She stated, as the Council will see in the
packet, there are some circulation numbers that help them get to that 500,000 views and
they are specifically through direct advertising placed in these publications.
MARY CUMMINGS stated very recently, they revised the new visitor’s guide and had
an initial printing of 5,000. These will be distributed throughout the State, at local
events, through touring groups, visitor’s centers, again to promote the community. She
stated a special subcommittee worked for several months to put this together and they are
very excited about it, because it not only includes a locator map but some very
comprehensive information about tourism in Shawnee.
MARY CUMMINGS stated the CVB website recorded a record 13,000 unique visitors to
the site and over 105,000 hits just in the last 12 months. They do plan to build on that
and are currently redeveloping the look and feel of the website and will have additional
features and functions to make that even more than just an electronic brochure, but give a
better look and feel for the flavor of Shawnee.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if it registers 13,000 visitors.
MARY CUMMINGS replied through the website statistics, they are logging that many
Councilmember Pflumm asked if they are registering on the website.
MARY CUMMINGS answered no. She stated they do have an opportunity for them to
do that where they have special requests for group visits and tournaments, but that is
specifically the website statistics.
MARY CUMMINGS stated they also produced the Shawnee street map, which was the
first one through the Chamber of Commerce that has been produced over the last five to
six years. They are currently in the midst of publishing another for 2007 and plan to
distribute more than 5,000 throughout the year.
MARY CUMMINGS stated one launch this year was a souvenir beverage cup campaign.
She stated it is targeted at the sports venues and area events. She stated in the last couple
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 40
weeks alone with Old Shawnee Days this past weekend, they distributed more than 1,200
cups and the previous weekend over Memorial Day for a youth soccer tournament,
distributed about 1,400 through Shawnee Parks and Recreation. They had a partnership
with Churchill Container, a division of A.J. Plastics and the cups actually say Made in
Shawnee, so that is a fun partnership. That is one of the targeted strategies this year –
partnering with the local sports venues, since they have their own Shawnee valley of
champions and a huge market that comes through for youth sports events.
Councilmember Straub asked how much the cups cost.
MARY CUMMINGS replied based on the initial manufacture, they initially started with
5,000 and cost around .30 cents a piece at that level. They make millions of them. They
started with a very small distribution and are looking at different possibilities. She stated
they also had the opportunity, and if they know they have enough lead time, can have
them imprinted on the rim with the name of the tournament or event and have that as a
souvenir and nice marketing piece for the City.
MARY CUMMINGS stated they also participated in the redevelopment of the State’s
official tourism website, which is travelks.com. She stated they provided information on
over 50 different attractions and businesses for the Shawnee area. Another big strategy
and project has been partnering with area and State tourism regional marketing efforts.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows the City has some very active members of the
business community and they are lucky to have professionals, such as Mary, who work
on it as well as some members of the Council, but asked if they ever looked at using
some of the remaining funds balance to talk with, for example, the gentleman who held
the class at the last NLC conference regarding community branding – somebody whose
sole job in life is to figure out how to make a community stand out. She stated she still
gets emails from them and has seen some stuff that was pretty impressive on a slightly
MARY CUMMINGS replied that actually for this year, they had built in some funds to
do a little strategic analysis plan for the CVB and some of those items, so they actually do
have those, albeit a very limited amount, but something that they definitely want to
understand. She stated the State also offers some resources along those lines as well.
Councilmember Kuhn asked Finance Director Kidney if with the money that remains at
the bottom of the funds balance, would it be the CVB that would then come to them and
say they have this large project they want to do and dip into the remaining $25,000 and
then the Council would make a decision. She asked how the remaining funds that sit in
that fund balance get allocated if they have a project they deem particularly worthy.
Finance Director Kidney stated it is allocated by the Council.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that was something she was curious about and there were
some very interesting things brought back from the NLC. She stated that certainly in no
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 41
way does she think that someone like that could even begin to replace the localized
professionalism and necessity of somebody who is that tied in, but wonders if that would
not be a good partnership for the City to even expand, especially with some of the huge
steps they are already taking.
MARY CUMMINGS stated she thinks that is a great idea. She stated over the years they
have expanded that committee who all bring their expertise and resources. She stated it
has been a great committee and they will continue to expand that as they go forward and
appreciates the great input.
MARY CUMMINGS stated these are some of their accomplishments over the past 12
months and the Council will see within the budget packet that they want to continue to
build on those items. She stated they specifically want to build on their website to
disseminate the information and that is the most cost effective means. She stated studies
are also showing that 78 percent of all travelers are using the Internet and websites to
research their travel destinations and make their decisions, so that is a big bulk of where
they are putting their time, efforts, and funds into developing that tool. She committed to
continually produce quality, comprehensive brochures and other publications. She stated
they need a nice media mix to get the message out there and the City cannot rely on one
single piece, whether it is the cup, website, nice brochure or magazine. They are looking
at all these pieces to get the best bang for their buck.
MARY CUMMINGS stated they will continue to look at key target publications and
media where they need to be and increase their participation in the community and area
special events such as Old Shawnee Days and the Heritage Festival coming up, along
with all the great fall activities within the region. She stated they will continue to partner
with the State and the Kansas City Area Metro Travel and Tourism Association. They
have made great strides getting involved with those partnerships. It has been a great
leverage to their resources in getting their name and visibility out there. She stated that is
what they are about in a nutshell and all the details are included in the packet.
LINDA LEEPER, President, Shawnee Chamber of Commerce, stated in her position as
Chamber president, they wear many hats. She stated actually she is here to express the
wishes of Ann Zimmerman with Wonderscope who had to leave earlier tonight. She
stated one of the things she had the opportunity to do last year, was the City Council was
kind enough to allocate $10,000 of the CVB funds to work on the façade of the outside of
the Wonderscope building in the same time period that they are looking to update the
pool. She stated they are starting on that progress and Ann did show her the renderings
of what they have so far. She stated the estimate is right around $20,000 and the first
phase would be $10,000 which would be in their 2006 budget and take care of the
LINDA LEEPER stated, as City Manager Gonzales expressed earlier, that she thinks Ann
would like the opportunity to come back and address the Council as it relates to perhaps
additional requests for the balance of that project that would happen sometime in 2007.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 42
LINDA LEEPER stated she sits on the Downtown Partnership and Council and
Wonderscope is part of the extension of that area. She stated redevelopment is very
important to them and very important to the overall economic impact of that whole area.
City Manager Gonzales stated they will be putting that on a committee agenda soon.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Special Improvement Fund which is funded
from a mill levy. He stated he is not sure the exact history of the fund, but noted it has
been a fund levy the City has had for quite a while. He stated the current mill levy is at
.46 mill. He stated this fund is used to fund start-up projects or small capital projects, but
he has never actually seen an expenditure paid out of this fund. He went back several
years and it does not appear the City has ever used this fund for an expenditure. He
asked what is a finance director to do with funds that need to be spent.
Finance Director Kidney stated they went through all the capital projects and will back up
somewhat to Councilmember Straub’s question about how those projects are paid for
when they talked about temporary financing versus bond financing. He stated the City
pays for all of their projects in a Capital Projects Fund. He stated the City starts the
project and if it is going to take off and be a viable project, they will eventually issue
bonds. He stated if it is a preliminary engineering study, a lot of times they will take
General Fund money and transfer and close that project out, so they have spent money
down in the red and take money from the General Fund to close it out or issue temporary
notes to fund it.
Finance Director Kidney stated they had a lot of smaller projects in the Capital Projects
Fund that were started, preliminary designs were done and other projects going many
years back, that were never closed out in this fund. He stated staff, working with the
Public Works Department, went back through some of those projects and realized they
could have been closed out with this Special Improvement Fund. He stated this is a
proposal and currently there is approximately $402,000 in that fund. They are proposing
to transfer from this fund and close out approximately $376,000 of those projects. Those
are projects that he would have had to take that $376,000 and issue a bond to pay off, so
using this fund he will not have to issue a bond which will save interest money. That is
their proposal on this fund. It does not quite close it out, but they will use a pretty good
chunk of money out of this fund to avoid issuing debt for a lot of these small projects.
Finance Director Kidney stated Public Works came to Council and talked about the
Johnson Drive and I-435 Shawnee Mission Parkway traffic study for $27,792. He stated
they had proposed to take the cost of that study out of this fund. He stated this is what
that fund is for, so that is the first of those projects staff would recommend taking out.
Finance Director Kidney stated staff every year brings decision packages to the Council.
He stated that typically, the decision packages are given at the time they are giving their
departmental budget presentations. He stated tonight, they will give decision packet
presentations to the Council if the funding source is one of these special revenue funds.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 43
He stated that as all the departments get up, they will see some of those decision
packages and they are all funded within.
Finance Director Kidney stated in 2007 there is a decision package from Finance and
again they have this funding source. This funding source is for small projects and debt
projects. He stated when they talked about the financial software, the financial software
does not handle an automated CIP and debt module. He stated what the Council is seeing
tonight and what staff has been working on, is doing a whole bunch of spreadsheets
together and pulling stuff from one place and it is actually taking a long time to put
together. He stated this decision package is proposing an automated CIP/Debt module.
Finance Director Kidney stated this is a decision package that Finance would propose and
at the end of the whole budget process on July 5, 2006, they will bring back all decision
packages in a summary and decisions will be made at that time.
Councilmember Kuhn asked how they know which special fund each request comes
City Manager Gonzales replied it follows along in the packet.
Finance Director Kidney stated the Council will also receive a summary of all decision
packages and what department or fund out of which it will be paid.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Employee Benefit Fund. He stated this fund
is also a mill levy. Currently the mill levy in the Employee Benefit Fund is 8.877 mills.
He stated the expenditures are self explanatory and this is where the employee benefit
charges are paid from and not out of the General Fund. He stated staff is projecting a six
(6) percent growth in the valuation and other projections based on FICA and KPERS and
what they think those projections are. Those have been projected out to 2015. He stated
this is one of two other special revenue funds and if they would look out to 2015, they
actually do not balance. He stated this fund, starting in 2010, will have to have
something done with these projections. He stated one option is that a lot of cities actually
combine the Employee Benefit Fund with the General Fund and Shawnee is not ready to
do that this year, because of a lot of other planning issues they need to look into. That is
something that may be brought before the Council in a future budget year.
Finance Director Kidney presented the Special Narcotics Fund. This fund is funded from
drug confiscation proceeds and these funds have to be used for police equipment
expenditures. This includes confiscated equipment and also the drug tax on narcotics
themselves. He stated the City receives around $10,000 to $14,000 each year in this
fund. There is a formula used. The City does confiscate equipment if it is used during an
offense, i.e. a car. The State will sell it and a portion of the proceeds come back to the
City. He stated he believes they are legally able to do that because there is a tax on
narcotics. They use the sale of the vehicle to pay that tax and the City receives back a
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 44
Finance Director Kidney stated this chart is very specific for the type of equipment –
police equipment. He noted some of the items the City has purchased in the past and in
2006 and 2007 there are two decisions packages put together by Police Chief Clark,
which were originally in the General Fund.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she understands looking in, for example, the Employee
Benefits Fund where they have to look and decide whether or not something is going to
go into a negative balance at a later date and asked if the only reason for declining a
request for a decision package coming out of one of these special funds where there is a
fund balance each time, is the fact that they would decide to keep the fund balance for
bigger an better things the following year. She is not seeing the justification for declining
a decision package when there is more than enough money in a special fund that can not
be used for something else.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is actually correct. He stated that was the whole
purpose of what they did this year, to be able to match decision packages to funding
sources. He stated it is the Council’s decision on any of these expenditures and in this
case, it would be more of a policy decision than fiscal.
Police Chief Clark stated the first decision package is Equipment Items for the Critical
Incident Response Vehicle. That vehicle is also referred to as a Mobile Command Post.
It was budgeted to be purchased in 2006 and they just recently received this vehicle. He
stated there are several pieces of equipment they need to put on that vehicle. First being
some police radios for critical incidents involving multiple jurisdictions that would allow
radio interoperability between those jurisdictions.
Police Chief Clark stated the telephone system would be installed in the vehicle and it is a
telephone system that can operate off of a cellular phone system or operate off of a land
line (hard line) phone system. It also provides an intercom within the Mobile Command
Post or the Critical Incident Vehicle and provides six different phone stations. He stated
the last item is an awning to provide protection from the elements for personnel who have
to be outside the vehicle.
Police Chief Clark stated the second decision package is the Digital Recorders for the
STAR (Special Tactics and Response) Team or the tactical team. He stated the tactical
team has what they call a throw phone and it is used in tactical situations where phone
service is cut off from the bad guys. He stated they throw a hard line phone into them
where they can then communicate only back to them. He stated these recorders would
basically be audio and video recorders in hidden locations, so presumably the bad guys
would not know they are listening and watching, not only when they are on the phone,
but when they are not on the phone, which gives the Police a tremendous tactical
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Special Alcohol Abuse Fund. He explained
that the City receives a share of the State liquor tax on alcohol sold within the City of
Shawnee. He stated one-third of it is to be used in the Special Alcohol Abuse Fund. This
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 45
fund is only to be used for alcohol abuse prevention and education. He stated currently
the City uses the fund for the D.A.R.E. program and funds 2.5 officers. They also fund
the United Community Services grants that are allocated in the fall. He stated that
amount is $27,737.
Councilmember Straub asked about salaries for the D.A.R.E. officers.
Finance Director Kidney replied they are for the officers, but he does not have the actual
Councilmember Kuhn stated it will not have a negative balance until 2014.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct and it will be remedied before that time.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if they are just expecting less growth in the amount of
alcohol sold or more growth in the amount they are paying.
Finance Director Kidney stated this projection does have salaries going up probably a
little more than what the revenue coming in would be. He stated they will look at these
every year and adjust them every year. He stated to be quite honest, he probably should
have cut back somewhat on the expenditure projection to make it fit.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Cemetery Fund and explained this is funded
from the operations of the Prairie View Cemetery and the funds are only to be used in
that cemetery. He stated this is one fund that is actually difficult to budget at this time,
since the City has not had it a full year. He stated Parks and Recreation Director Holman
was kind enough to try to help him project this revenue, but at the same time they do not
have enough history. Every year they will adjust based on actuals.
Finance Director Kidney stated he would point out the columbarium which was approved
in last year’s budget for 2006, showing up as $110,000 in 2006 and then there are basic
operations from that point forward. He stated he knows they had to do a lot of work out
there, so hopefully they will get some funds to be able to do preventative maintenance so
they do not have the large expenditures.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Public Safety Sale Tax Fund and explained
this is funded from the 1/8th cent sales tax voted on in 2004. He stated the fund
projection on this item is actually straight forward. All the money collected in this fund
will go toward the debt payment of the bonds issued for the justice center until that is
paid off and they would have other operations.
Finance Director Kidney noted the $2.3 million capital expenditure in 2007 and
explained that is basically because they have that much money built up in that fund
already and have not yet issued debt. He stated they would use that $2.3 million more or
less before they issue the bond and will put that much into the Capital Projects Fund, so
they do not have to bond as much and save on interest.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 46
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Public Safety Equipment Fund, formerly
called the Firefighters Equipment Fund. He stated to be more specific, the actual statutes
do say that the money is to be used for the purchase of police, fire, and rescue equipment.
He stated this one actually was a lot of fun putting together with Police Chief Clark and
Fire Chief Hudson. He stated currently there is a half mill used in this fund and again,
one idea is to try to get as much out of the General Fund and Debt Service Fund as
possible. There is a lot of need on the replacement of their equipment, so they thought it
would be a great idea to use this fund solely as an Equipment Replacement Fund. There
is still not enough money in this fund to completely fund the needs of the public safety
replacement for both Fire and Police. He stated Fire Chief Hudson will now present his
needs for the replacement of fire equipment.
Fire Chief Hudson presented a chart and stated that historically in the Fire Department,
they have had great equipment to respond and provide safe transportation and equipment
for the firefighters. He stated they have somewhat figured from year to year what the
needs will be. The Fire Department is really excited to be able to have the opportunity,
thanks to City Manager Gonzales, to do some forecasting for the Council and they have
gained a lot of great knowledge as well in researching through a plan, a forecast so to
speak, for the firefighting equipment for the future of Shawnee. He stated it is nice to
look ahead and have a good plan put in place.
Fire Chief Hudson stated when the Fire Department purchases their equipment, he feels it
is well designed, safe, well cared for and maintained, but no matter how well cared for or
maintained, even great equipment has a lifespan. He stated in the mid 1980’s through the
mid 1990’s as Shawnee experienced great growth, they stepped into that in the mid
1980’s and started purchasing a great deal of firefighting equipment – a lot of fire trucks
and engines. He stated they built a new station and put fire apparatus in that station. He
stated the call load has gone up tremendously. Last year for the first time in Shawnee,
there were over 4,000 calls for assistance from the Fire Department.
Fire Chief Hudson stated where they used to be able to think and know they could get
somewhere around 20 years out of a fire engine or truck, with the call loads they had 20
years ago that was true, but it is true no longer. He stated it is good equipment, but they
are running the wheels off it responding to calls, training, doing inspections, and PR’s out
in the public, so it gets a lot of use.
Fire Chief Hudson stated they have in the Fire Department a fire apparatus/fire
equipment work group. Their task is when the Fire Department is making a purchase,
either fire engine, truck, or staff car, they put together the design specs based on the latest
technology, taking into account longevity and especially firefighter safety in that
equipment. He stated this year, they were tasked with something even greater - to do
some research on the existing equipment, the maintenance records, mileage, usage, and
put together the plan presented on the overhead this evening they feel are the needs for
the City of Shawnee and the Fire Department to provide the response and level of service
to the community in which they currently are providing.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 47
Fire Chief Hudson stated the plan is stretched out over the next four to five years. He
stated next year, their plan includes the purchase of four pieces of equipment; one fire
truck which is an aerial ladder truck, one fire engine, a staff car, and a utility vehicle that
they use to trailer some of the emergency response equipment that is on trailers. He
stated it includes the gator they have it stationed to, the boats, the 1930 Rio that is in the
big trailer they take to parades or out to other communities.
Fire Chief Hudson referred to Page 21 of the packet and Fire Plan “A”. Page 22 is the
Equipment Decision Package for a replacement fire truck for the 1989, 85-foot aerial
ladder truck currently owned by the City in its fleet. He stated there are a couple reasons
for replacement. By the time they get it replaced, it will be close to 20 years old and even
though it has been well cared for, it is time to get a new apparatus. Secondly, the ladder
on that truck is just not tall enough for the calls they receive in this community and for
some of the buildings they get called to. He stated it has an 85-foot ladder and, for
instance, there is a seven story building right behind City Hall. If they take into account
how far away that truck sits from the building and lowering the ladder to the building,
they would not get more than three or four floors to that building to make rescues. He
stated both of the aerial ladder trucks in the fleet are 85-foot, so this decision package
proposes going back to a 100 to 110 foot sized aerial ladder truck, like the very first aerial
ladder purchased in Shawnee.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if they could get a better trade-in value if they sold the
truck to a small community.
Fire Chief Hudson replied that he believes that somewhere in the matrix is the right time
to sell these trucks so they can get good trade-in value. He stated when they are the age
of this truck and do not have the safety items built into them that are available today and
had the wheels run off, he does not expect the trade-in value to be much more than what
shows. He stated that has been his experience in talking with other fire chiefs in the
Councilmember Pflumm stated he is talking about communities who do not have a truck
like that and they will be trading the truck into a company who will resell it.
Fire Chief Hudson stated there are two ways to go about that and sometimes trading it in
is not the best way. Sometimes selling it directly and putting it out there on the market
and selling it directly to that department could bring a little more value, but he does not
anticipate it will be much more. He stated that is certainly an option.
Councilmember Pflumm stated it looks like a low number.
Fire Chief Hudson agreed it is a low number, but he does not want to stand before the
Council and tell them it would be a big number if that is not his true feelings.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if the mileage is correct on this truck – 23,000 miles.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 48
Fire Chief Hudson answered yes.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is not so much that the wheels have been run off, than
that it is inadequate for what the City needs.
Fire Chief Hudson stated when he talks about running this vehicle a lot, he means when
they start them up and drive them out of the station, they are not turned off until they get
back to the station. He stated they sit running at trainings.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is no different than an over the road truck, as they run
all the time too. He finds it hard pressed that at 23,000 miles, the wheels are run off of
this vehicle. He agrees with Fire Chief Hudson that it has an inadequate ladder length
and the safety equipment is 20 years old.
Fire Chief Hudson stated it is 20 years old and has had a lot of scene use on it, where it
gets driven to the scene, put up on the outriggers, and used hard.
Councilmember Goode stated it does not go out on every call.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct, as it is taken out mostly on structure fires and
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is assuming there is not something that would fix the
problem, or Fire Chief Hudson would have made that suggestion. She stated they did not
offer the opportunity to take a truck like this and replace the ladder for $100,000 and
update the safety equipment and then use the other $600,000 to buy the other truck. She
asked if it would make sense or is it doable to spend $100,000 to update this truck and
make it worthwhile, then take the $600,000 to meet a foreseen need in the future and
have allocated to next year, but move that forward and see if they can not get another
eight years out of this vehicle. She asked if that balances and is a doable solution.
Fire Chief Hudson replied Councilmember Kuhn’s question makes perfect sense and that
is an area they looked at – refurbishing the apparatus. He stated an 85-foot ladder on the
chassis size it is on with a single axle rear-end, will not allow them to go any higher in
the size of ladder and on the weight. He stated they anticipate that decision package
would be approximately a $750,000 purchase.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks Councilmember Pflumm has a very reasonable
point. She appreciates very much with how they tend to be surprised on the other end of
numbers they see that grow substantially by the time they actually have to look at them.
She also appreciates Fire Chief Hudson low-balling the estimate for what they might get
in, so it is a happy surprise if they get more. She asked if that is something they can look
at pretty heavily, as to if there is an outside market to a smaller Redbud type of town that
does not have many buildings over three stories. She asked if they could maybe look on
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 49
Fire Chief Hudson stated there absolutely are cities/towns out there like that. He stated
just like for cars, there are fire engine trader magazines and that is where they get some of
their numbers. He stated there is a flood of equipment like that and they can take their
pick out there. It is not like it is a seller’s market, as there are many communities in the
same situation as Shawnee, where they have had a lot of use and are replacing their
equipment or trying to sell it, so it is certainly a buyer’s market.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if all the trade-in value will be something like $30,000 and
they are looking at another fire station as time goes on and look at response times,
etcetera, would that be something that would be better served for them just holding onto
it and making the station its home, of which the likelihood of it being used is far less
substantial sized buildings and for $30,000 having it handy.
Fire Chief Hudson replied when they get to be that age, they do have a maintenance
problem. He stated on their other aerial ladder truck last year they spent $21,000 putting
in a transmission. He stated he would weigh that against, in all the districts, they have all
those different types of buildings and do not get an opportunity to pick and choose which
truck they run out the door depending on the call, because they do not have both sized
aerial ladder trucks at one station or they probably would not. He stated they are looking
at that concept when it comes to a fire engine, about moving things around.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she trusts Fire Chief Hudson’s judgment.
Councilmember Goode asked if they pay $750,000 for a new truck, how long will they
Fire Chief Hudson replied the way he sees it, with the call loads they receive today, he
thinks where they used to get through with 20 years on a piece of apparatus they are now
looking at somewhere between 10 to 15 years.
Councilmember Goode stated that is a good answer. He does not mind spending
$750,000 if they will get good use out it for even 10 years and thinks even at that price, it
is pretty cheap.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is what they are looking at as they update this each year
and do their forecast.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they have to have a place to park all these trucks. He has
noticed the City has a tremendous amount of calls to the apartment complexes. He stated
99.99 percent of those calls, probably do not need any of the bigger trucks. He asked Fire
Chief Hudson if they have done any research about taking out the Suburban on those
calls. He stated they may not be minor issues, but not as radical as an 85-foot ladder
running down the road trying to make a corner.
Fire Chief Hudson stated Councilmember Pflumm is correct and most often those calls
turn out that way. He stated when a truck leaves the station, they do not know to what
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 50
severity the call will end up being and he hates the phone call the next day asking why
they did not bring the big truck when they needed it. He stated on their automatic alarms
and smoke investigation calls, they take the fire engine and not the 100-foot aerial ladder
truck. If they get information that sounds like the call is being upgraded, they will then
deploy more resources. He stated it could be also if the information they receive
immediately sounds like it is a working fire, they will take two or three trucks along.
Councilmember Sawyer stated in yesterday’s newspaper, the Fire Department ranked 8th
and the one thing they noted was the City does not have their own ambulance service.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City does have an ambulance service through Johnson
County and she communicated that to the author of that article.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he immediately took task with the article as well, because
he knew Shawnee had ambulance service. He stated they send both vehicles and
whoever gets there first can save someone’s life. He stated if they do not have all the
equipment to do the job when they get there, they do not get a second chance and do not
get to go out and buy a piece of equipment and have to have it on hand.
Fire Chief Hudson continued with the next decision package, a fire engine that does not
have an aerial ladder. He stated this would replace a 1989 engine they have at Station #3.
He stated this engine requires constant maintenance and is in the shop a great deal of
time. He stated one of the firefighters opened his office door last week and asked if he
had any ideas about the engine, because the dashboard will not bolt back into place. He
stated it has been apart so many times, it just won’t bolt back anymore.
Councilmember Goode stated they got 16 years out of that vehicle.
Fire Chief Hudson stated that is correct and it will be 17 years by the time it gets
replaced. This is a $425,000 expenditure and that number is based off the fact that in the
last five years in the Fire Department they have only replaced one piece of apparatus and
also added one additional - the Heavy Rescue Vehicle.
Fire Chief Hudson stated the Fire Marshal is currently driving a 2000 Crown Victoria and
it is getting up in age and miles. They are proposing to purchase a 4-wheel drive vehicle.
He stated when they purchased that car a few years ago, they wanted to get a 4-wheel
drive vehicle at that time, but for cost savings they stayed with a sedan. He stated with
the duties the Fire Marshal has and investigating fires and being a support command
officer at fires, he has a lot of equipment to carry and he needs to put the Fire Marshal in
a 4-wheel drive vehicle. He stated the $40,000 figure would be enough to put in the
emergency equipment, light bar, radios and they would be able to reuse some of the
current items in the sedan.
Fire Chief Hudson concluded with the last decision package from the Public Safety
Equipment Fund for the Fire Department. He stated they have a 1996 Ford F-150 utility
vehicle at the Fire Department. It is an all-purpose vehicle that they use if they have to
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 51
go get parts. He stated it also gets used to plow driveways for senior citizens during
snowfalls and they use it to pull the trailer when they have the Parks’ trails trailer. That
is the trailer with the gator on it they take to the streamway parks to make rescues or the
rescue boats on the trailers at headquarters. They depend quite a bit on that and it is
getting worn out and needs to replaced.
Chairperson Sandifer asked if they just want to replace it with another ½ ton pickup.
Fire Chief Hudson answered yes. He stated they would love to keep the vehicle at a
different station, because they could use it for different types of things, but they do not
have any place to put it unless they park it outside.
Councilmember Kuhn stated Fire Chief Hudson knows better than she about what they
could or could not use, therefore she just hopes Fire Chief Hudson is not trading
something in that could end up being a good piece of equipment to continue using in
order to bring down costs.
Fire Chief Hudson stated he appreciates that and they are trying to keep in mind the
budget. He stated one thing that really takes its toll on this vehicle is plowing the
driveways, so maybe if that was all they used it for and kept a plow on it and used it for
that purpose only, then they could consider keeping it.
Chairperson Sandifer suggested giving the truck to the Parks Department.
Fire Chief Hudson asked the Council if they know about sometimes when a person does
not want to sell their vehicle to someone they know, well, that is how they feel about
giving this vehicle to the Parks Department.
City Manager Gonzales stated they definitely look at moving those vehicles from
department to department and Police Chief Clark will talk some more about that with the
Finance Director Kidney stated the other side of the Public Safety Equipment Fund is the
Police services. He presented Police Chief Clark’s replacement plan which is included in
Police Chief Clark stated the Police Department this year, at the urging of City Manager
Gonzales and Finance Director Kidney, also had to do some forward looking and
planning for replacement of their equipment. He stated, as with the Fire Department, in
prior years it was a year to year decision to look at the current vehicles and determine
which ones were in most need of replacement.
Police Chief Clark stated normally in the past, they have tried to replace the patrol
vehicles every two years with the maximum amount of mileage allowed at 100,000 miles.
He stated this year, they looked at a way to extend that replacement period and the
Deputy Chief and the Patrol Commander made an evaluation and figured out that they
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 52
have enough other vehicles in the department, i.e. D.A.R.E. vehicles, school resource-
type vehicles, and other support vehicles, that are not driven nearly as often or hard as the
patrol vehicles, so by moving vehicles around the department from the patrol division to
D.A.R.E. offices and school resource officers and so forth, they believe they can extend
that replacement to every three years.
Police Chief Clark presented a list of vehicles in need of replacement this year. He stated
they went to other departments around the metro area, Johnson County specifically, to
see if they had replacement schedules for their vehicles. He stated two of the
departments, Olathe and Overland Park, have formal replacement plans. He stated
Olathe has it in the form of a policy and he obtained a copy of that policy. He stated it is
the Police Department’s intention to copy and basically use Olathe’s replacement policy
as a guideline. He stated they never obtained a copy of Overland Park’s guidelines and
were told they have a person in their city that coordinates and plans all equipment
Councilmember Pflumm stated in looking at the Harley Davidson’s, there are no real
major replacement costs and they are just doing $1,000 maintenance each year.
Police Chief Clark stated Harley Davidson has a great plan for the City. He stated they
can trade in their Harley Davidson’s every year and get brand new ones at a cost of
approximately $1,000. He stated for $1,000 every year they get a new Harley Davidson
and they are always under warranty, so they do not have to worry about maintenance
costs. He stated Harley Davidson almost comes out ahead, because they can sell the used
motorcycles for almost as much as the new ones. The Police Department gladly
participates in that plan.
Councilmember Sawyer asked for the total number of owned cars in the Police
Police Chief Clark replied they have 69 vehicles and that includes specialty vehicles like
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that includes the pickups used for the dogs.
Police Chief Clark answered yes that includes all vehicles.
Councilmember Sawyer confirmed that the number 69 includes trailers - everything. He
stated this number is referring to the line number and he knew the Police Department did
not own that many cars.
Police Chief Clark stated it is just a unit number.
Councilmember Pflumm asked how many patrol car officers are employed by the City.
Police Chief Clark answered they have 45 officers at full staff and six field sergeants.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 53
Councilmember Pflumm asked how many patrol cars.
Police Chief Clark replied they have 20 marked vehicles, 13 unmarked or low profile
police vehicles, and those would be the patrol vehicles, plus the two motorcycles.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if they are at 60 plus percent of vehicles that cover
officers. He asked if they have looked at take-home cars or is it just too much of an
initial capital expenditure.
Police Chief Clark stated very few have take-home vehicles. He stated some agencies
buy patrol vehicles for every officer and they are their take-home vehicles and only those
officers drive those vehicles. He stated in most cases they can then keep the cars much
longer than three years, because the mileage does not build up as quick and officers take
better care of equipment that is assigned to them as it is their responsibility. He stated the
initial expense of providing vehicles for every patrol officer would be quite a bit. He
stated with current policy, the City does not have any residential requirements for their
officers and some live in Missouri and in Wyandotte County, so he does not know if it
would be best to have some of the patrol cars being driven home to Lee’s Summit,
Councilmember Pflumm asked if that is something they should investigate and have
Finance Director Kidney run some numbers. He stated if they could save money in the
long term, they may want to look at it.
Police Chief Clark stated he does not think they are prepared to do that in this budget
year, but they could investigate it for the future.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he does not necessarily want to spend the money, but if
they could save money long-term, it may be worth looking into. He stated they could set
a policy that if someone lives in Shawnee, they could have a take-home car.
Police Chief Clark stated it might be an incentive to get some of the officers to move into
Shawnee. He stated the plan with the patrol vehicles is to replace them every three years.
He stated they anticipate the mileage would be 100,000 to 120,000 miles on the vehicles
at that point. They would intend to replace trucks every five to eight years, command
staff vehicles and detective cars every five to eight years and anticipate the mileage to be
anywhere from 50,000 to 85,000 on those vehicles. He stated that replacement schedule
is consistent with Overland Park, Olathe, and Lenexa, with whom they did some
comparisons. He stated all of these vehicles which need replacement, meet those
replacement requirements or beyond.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they do use some of these vehicles and have been
brought over to Codes if they still have mileage left on them.
City Manager Gonzales answered yes. They have in the past and will always continue to
look at those situations.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 54
Finance Director Kidney stated they projected out on their fund forecast a couple
assumptions, the first being that they would lease purchase the fire trucks for 10 years.
He stated they are calling it Plan A on the replacement schedule. He stated starting in
2008 they go into the red on this fund, based on the replacement schedule that was just
presented. As a result, staff also looked at taking the fire trucks and moving them out to
one a year to see what kind of impact that would have on the financial forecast. By doing
that, they were able to push out to 2010 before they need to do something in this fund.
He asked the Council to keep in mind that if the trade-in value at that time is more or
better than $30,000, that money stays in this fund and they can move trucks from year to
year until they get to 2010. At this time, Plan B, based on both presentations and moving
the fire trucks to one a year instead of two a year, they were able to push this fund
balance out through 2009.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if it is just because of the amount that a single fire truck
costs, rather than getting three police vehicles instead of one fire truck being spread out.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is a major piece of equipment.
Councilmember Kuhn stated it would be $500,000 instead of $750,000.
Finance Director Kidney asked them to keep in mind that the mill levy in this fund is
really low, less than half a mill. He stated given the original plan with a half mill within
the last couple years, it would more than fund the rest of this program or even one-third
or something on down the road. He stated whether or not they adjust one fund, lower one
fund in the levy and increase this by one-third or a half, it would fund this program. He
stated they will look at this each year and project out.
City Manager Gonzales asked the Council to keep in mind there is no magic to this fund
and it is not that it should fund everything the City needs, because they have just this year
turned it into an Equipment Replacement Fund and it will take a couple years to get it in
order and determine how much they will need over the years.
Councilmember Pflumm asked if its only revenue is the percentage of the current mill
Finance Director Kidney answered yes.
Finance Director Kidney stated in 2006, the City created a new fund called the
Downtown Revitalization Fund. He stated this is funded from a transfer from the
General Fund and also with the new Revitalization Program or the Downtown Rebate
Program, 10 percent of the tax rebates that come off that program also go into this fund.
He stated this is used for improvements and enhancements within the downtown
improvement boundaries. He stated in previous years, that amount has been paid for out
of the General Fund just as a line item within the General Fund for $100,000. He stated
basically what they have done here is moved the expenses into its own fund, again getting
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 55
back to why the City has special revenue funds and the staff will be able to report back
specifically what they spend on downtown improvements.
Finance Director Kidney stated the staff basically took out the $100,000 and started
lowering it over the next couple years. Keep in mind, the staff does not believe they will
use the full $100,000 and it will be carried forward from year to year. He stated staff will
bring back a more detailed expenditure in the near future on where that money will
actually be spent.
City Manager Gonzales stated part of the reason they took that upon themselves to lower
it, is because that has been the direction from the Council and from the Downtown
Partnership and over time the businesses hope to be able to step up and participate more.
She stated they certainly do not expect the City to keep dumping money year after year
into this fund.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Special Highway Fund. He explained that
this is funded from the City’s share of the Kansas Gasoline Tax and is used for the cost,
repair, and maintenance of the City streets and highways. He stated in the past, the total
cost of the resurfacing program has been split between this special revenue fund and the
General Fund. He stated after Public Works Director Freyermuth’s presentation, they
will try to show how they plan to move all the costs from the program just in the Special
Public Works Director Freyermuth presented a PowerPoint presentation and stated he
would give a quick overview of the program. He stated the Resurfacing Program is a
fairly costly item for the City, but does pay off in a really good street system for the City
that has been supported well by the City Council for a number of years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated street pavements do have cracks, ruts and
deteriorate over time. He stated curbs settle and deteriorate and periodic maintenance
saves money by preventing total reconstruction of roads. He stated an Annual Program
avoids large increases in the street maintenance budget by reducing the need for complete
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the Street Resurfacing Program consists of:
1. Mill and asphalt overlay work on arterials, improved collectors, and residential
streets. Mill & Asphalt Overlay Work on arterials, improved collectors and
2. Chip and Seal Treatment by Public Works Employees on unimproved section line
roads which have been annexed over the year, but not improved to this point.
3. Curb & Gutter Repairs for requested locations and as needed on streets to be
overlayed with asphalt.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 56
4. Sidewalk Repairs for requested locations and as needed on streets to be overlayed
5. Federally Mandated Wheelchair Ramp Modifications to meet the requirements of
the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). This is an item they have dealt with
from the early 1990’s.
6. Miscellaneous Street Repair Work to keep pavements in good condition and
functioning properly such as concrete inlays at intersections, pavement markings,
curb inlet repairs and pavement patching.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the program policy has changed a little over the
years and in 1992 they stopped using chip seal treatment on residential streets. In 2004,
they changed the length of time between street resurfacing on residential streets. It was
increased from 10 to 12 years. In 2005, they did a change where they will start
addressing all deteriorated curb and gutter on overlay streets to replace deteriorated curb
and gutter prior to overlaying the street. He stated they were doing very limited amounts
of curb and gutter repair work on the streets. They were having concerns with the call-
ins just the year after a street was paved to repair a curb or sidewalks. By doing it this
way, they get in one time and get things done and hopefully for 10 to 14 years they do not
have to come back and do repair work in those locations.
Public Works Director Freyermuth presented a graph showing that the City street system
has increased quite a bit from 1995 when they had about 275 centerline miles and in
2005, they had close to 350, so they have added a lot of streets to the City just over the
past 10-year period and it takes quite a bit of funding to keep up with the overlay
program for those kinds of increases in street miles.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next graph shows the City has had a
considerable amount of increased emphasis on concrete repairs over the years. He stated
going clear back to the mid 1980’s, the City did a good job keeping up with street
resurfacing work over the years, but from about 1995 to 2005, they really were not doing
a lot of work on the damaged curbs and sidewalks. He stated they have increased that by
444% since 1995, as to the amount of funding used to correct those types of curb and
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next slide shows how the budget in 2002
was around $2 million and in 2006 went up to $3 million. He stated it shows how the
City still is not meeting the target numbers for the policy in place for resurfacing on
streets. The next slide showed the concrete costs and noted the last item on the far right
is a five-year average, which basically shows how over at least the past five years, the
City has been spending just about the same amount of money on curb and gutter work as
they have on street resurfacing, so they have really done a lot to repair and improvement
to the curb, gutter, and sidewalk infrastructure within the City.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 57
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the results of the resurfacing program have
been good over the years. He stated the staff does a physical review of the streets for
cracking and that is entered into a computer program which calculates out a PCI
(Pavement Condition Index). He stated the City has averaged over the past five years at
88.3, which is really a strong number and shows there are very good street pavements
throughout the City, at least on the average. He stated there is not a lot of standard
information on that throughout the country, but in Overland Park they did find their
numbers over the past couple of years to be in the mid-to-upper 70’s, so 88.3 seems to be
a good number compared to them.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated literature on pavement management systems
does indicate that streets rating around 50 to 70 would be ones in need of repair. He
stated ratings of 70 to 100 would be reasonable streets, but generally there would not be
too many streets scoring up in the 95 to 100 range.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated there has been a minor amount of pot hole
patching performed over the past five years and the City has had very few complaints
about street pavements, an average of 10 per year, for the past five years. He stated the
City really does not get a lot of street complaints, because they are in decent shape. He
stated the City does however receive a lot of complaints about damaged curbs, averaging
about 238 complaints per year over the past five years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the Pavement Condition Index (PCI) chart
shows that about 88 has been the average of Shawnee. He stated that although the
program has grown considerably over the years and the results have been good, the
annual street resurfacing budget does not properly fund the stated program. This was
discussed a couple years ago and they did make an adjustment, but they still are not
meeting the target numbers.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the next chart shows the 2006/2007 projected
budgets, which show the City would have a backlog of overlay lane miles that would be
far greater than the red, which are the target lane miles. He stated the blue shows the
estimated amount of miles the City would be able to overlay based on the current budget
with an inflation of 6.5 percent.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in order to fund the resurfacing program under
the current policy, the Street Resurfacing Program budget needs a significant increase
beyond the 6.5 percent increase per year for inflation and growth to keep at least as many
construction dollars next year as they did in 2006 and not fall back on that. He stated the
Street Resurfacing Budget will need to increase by an average of $475,000.00 per year to
stay on resurfacing cycle stated in the policy, looking at the next five year period of what
work needs to be done. He stated this is using the current policy which is arterial 10
years, collector 10 years, residential 12 years, and chip/seal 4 years. He stated to try to
go back to a 10-year plan, there would be a $1 million per year need, so a 10-year cycle is
pretty much out of the question for funding.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 58
Councilmember Sawyer asked Public Works Director Freyermuth about 2006 and if they
bumped up some of the lane miles at the last Council meeting, because they were coming
in under budget.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if this graph shows this.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it does not; it shows what they started out with
this year and Councilmember Sawyer is actually correct, it is up to around 45 and this
shows under 40.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they also have 2007, based on part of that same cost and it
may very well be.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is absolutely correct, as they are only
estimating what they anticipate the cost to be, so it could be a few more lane miles that
would be accomplished in 2007 under the current budget.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that does not help them bring down the backlog much.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. He stated it helps to meet the
target number for this year, but does not work on the backlog. He stated the other option
would be that the program would need to change to stay within the current budget and it
would go from arterial streets 10 years, collector streets 10 years, and residential streets
12 years, to being arterial streets 11 years, collector streets 13 years, and a 16 year cycle
for overlays on residential streets. He stated it would be a policy that would fit the
current budget and they would not have to increase any of the funding for this program.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he would recommend adding to the budget and
changing the current Street Resurfacing Program. He suggested adding $215,000.00 to
the budget each year for the next 5 years. He stated this would be in addition to the 6.5
percent increase for inflation and still change the policy statement to where they would
do arterials on a10-year cycle, collectors on a 12-year cycle, and residential on a 14-year
cycle between overlays.
Public Works Director Freyermuth presented a quick graph summarizing that
information. He pointed out that the lower line is the current budget if it were to just stay
flat. The next line shows a 6.5 percent increase each year and runs the, roughly $3
million current budget up to around $4.1 or $4.2 million in 2011. He stated the next line
shows adding the $215,000 additional to keep the policy a little closer to the current
policy and the top two lines show current policy and going back to what policy they had
several years back with a 10-year cycle for all improved streets - residential, collector, or
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 59
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that was a brief overview of the Street
Resurfacing Program. He stated he does have one decision package in the 2007 packet
which is a request for the $400,000 needed to increase the budget to meet the current
policy. He stated he does think the Council should look at the option of a change in that
policy, so that the funding would not need to be increased – that full $400,000. He stated
the decision package is just there to let the Council know what it will take to meet the
current stated policy for the Street Resurfacing Program.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that besides the $409,000 on Line 4300 for the
actual amount of resurfacing work, it would also include one staff person, an engineering
inspector, to work with that increased amount of contract work for curb, gutter, and
sidewalk work and overlay. He stated it is a combination of additional funding for the
program and one person making it a total $490,000 decision package.
Councilmember Straub asked if this decision package goes with extending it to the 10-
year, 12-year, and 14-year plan.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied this goes with current policy of 10 years for
arterials and collectors and 12 years for residential and to stay on that schedule. He
stated this does not include funding to take care of all the backlog streets within one year,
but would allow it over a five year period. He stated they would need to add amounts
around $409,000 and $327,000 each year over the next five years to reduce that backlog
and put the City back on that schedule.
Councilmember Straub stated that was unclear and he thought Public Works Director
Freyermuth was suggesting there was a possibility of changing it.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied that is correct; this goes with the current
policy. He stated for 2007, if no change is made in the current policy, this is what it
would take to start putting this back into a funding level that would meet the program
they have in their policy statement. He stated in the PowerPoint presentation, it gave an
option to increase the years and not have to increase funding as much.
Councilmember Straub asked if that would be okay.
Public Works Director Freyermuth responded that he thinks they would be in okay shape
to do that, based on the fact that the PCI shows the City is currently at a strong 88. He
stated he does not think the City would have a problem if they went to that 14-year
program. He stated with the pavements just staying drivable and in good shape, there is
still the issue that they will bleach out in color to a light gray and have cracks and
patches. He stated utilities will come in from time to time and cut the pavement.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated one of the benefits of the resurfacing program
is revitalization in neighborhoods as they come through and put down a nice looking
street with the overlays. He stated it is the trade off or a little of the decisions the
Councils have made in the past, just how long do they want to let the roads continue to
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 60
deteriorate, as opposed to coming in and doing a nice new surface that really does
enhance the neighborhoods.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated it has been a good program over the years, but
the costs are getting significant, especially with some of the changes in the cost of oil and
asphalt going up each year. He stated it is harder to stay with an all asphalt program and
do it on a 10 to 12-year cycle. It is getting to be very costly. He stated another option
would be to go back to some of the seal-type work they have done prior to 1992, but that
is not a real good or desirable option in most residents’ opinion to use chip/seal or even
slurry seals. He stated for the most part, the City seems to do very good with the road
system by using the all asphalt program, but is just a costly item to work with.
Councilmember Goode stated it is holding up good. He stated the City did Flint and it is
not showing much wear and tear, as it was surfaced with the right thickness.
Public Works Director Freyermuth concurred and stated they are getting really good
performance out of the roads.
Councilmember Goode stated they went in and filled in all the soft spots.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they do patching first and some of those
miscellaneous costs they have in each of the program years.
Councilmember Sawyer stated this $409,000 is only going to keep the City on the current
program and to move to this proposed program, they will need an additional $215,000.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. He stated instead of $400,000, it
would be $200,000 and they could go to 14 years on residential.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they are then really going to start dropping off on that
Public Works Director Freyermuth agreed and stated he thinks it will show an impact, but
he is not sure it will be a critical one for even 10 to 15 years, where they would start
seeing a major drop in that number. He thinks the streets would still be in decent shape if
the overall rating went to an 80, instead of 88.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the problem with all of this, and it sounds wonderful, is
that if they ever get behind they are going to have a big problem on their hands.
Public Works Director Freyermuth agreed and stated it is very difficult to catch up. He
stated as they are seeing today, the numbers are big - $400,000 a year.
Councilmember Sawyer stated it will take more than $400,000 to try to catch up.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 61
Councilmember Straub asked if they move to this 10, 12, and 14 plan and put in the
$400,000 and some of the backlog was caught up with faster, he does not know what the
backlog is and asked if it means it is over the 10, 12, and 14 years.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct.
Councilmember Straub stated they are not actually on a 10, 12, and 14 year program.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. It has been a longer cycle than
just the 10 or 12 years in the policy, since some of the segments in the City have been
Chairperson Sandifer stated the point is there are no longer the extra funds.
Councilmember Goode stated it is strictly based on prosperity.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the fund plans. He stated it shows a 2 percent
increase in the State Gasoline Tax and that is an assumption based on prior history. He
stated it has actually been 5 and 7 percent. He stated a couple years ago, it shows a drop
because the State took some of that money for themselves. He stated one thing the staff
wants to show is the total cost of this program out of one fund, instead of splitting it up in
the General Fund and the Special Highway Fund. In order to do that, they are making a
transfer from the General Fund that was expended directly to the invoices out of the
General Fund. He stated they are transferring that amount to the Special Highway Fund.
That transfer in 2007, for the $3.3 million program, is $1.6 million from the General
Fund into the Special Highway Fund.
Finance Director Kidney stated this is based on 10, 12, and 14 years and is at the current
funding level. He stated this transfer from the General Fund goes from $1.6 million by
the end of the program close to $3 million being transferred from the General Fund. He
tried to show what that equivalent is to the mill levy. He stated in 2007, they are
transferring $1.6 million and approximately 2.3 mills of the General Fund monies coming
into the Special Highway Program and wanted to put that into perspective for the
Finance Director Kidney presented the same funding level for 2015 for the additional
$215,000. He stated that increases the transfer quickly over $2.2 million starting in 2009
and 2010. He stated the mill levies are shown at the bottom with 2.30 in 2007 and then
out over the years.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Stormwater Utility Fund which is the fund
from the utility fee charged on the non-pervious area of a property. He stated it is billed
through Johnson County and used for the cost of planning and smaller capital stormwater
projects. He stated this is another fund that is recent, so they do not have a lot of history.
He stated basically, staff took out the projections based on Public Works Director
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 62
Freyermuth’s recommendations and were able to balance his needs to the revenues
coming in through the utility fund.
Finance Director Kidney noted there is actually a transfer in 2007 and on out of the
$175,000 that is actually also going into the Special Highway Fund to pay for some of the
resurfacing needed as part of the stormwater improvements.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows they are doing it differently this year, where they
are looking at these special decision packages based on the individual funds of which it
would make the most sense to come out of and asked if in the past, did they just leave the
funds alone and they would have been carrying the balance, or would they have spent it
City Manager Gonzales stated if Councilmember Kuhn remembers at the end of last
year’s budget process when they provided the spreadsheet, it actually shows the funding
source across the top and this is only how they are presenting it, in that they are
projecting out more of those funds. She stated their hope is that from year to year, as
they all see these plans, they will not have to go into as much detail in future years.
There are expenses they all know about and funded in the plan and something they
planned for and move ahead. She stated this year, since it is new, they are presenting
each decision package with the fund.
Councilmember Goode stated he thinks it is a good idea.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they are assuming that they are going to have total
revenue of $1.5 million.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct.
Councilmember Sawyer stated this is the stormwater utility where everyone is going to
be charged monthly.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes, $36.00 each year on a residential.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the Personal Fees are going to be $355,000 and asked why
they are contracting services.
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained that Contracted Services would be
contractors doing maintenance activities on the stormwater system - things like scoping
out the pipes to look for breaks or damage.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they pay for that out of Capital Outlay.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied Capital Outlay would be where they are going
to be doing some of the small drainage projects that do not quality for SMAC funding
and are not eligible for the match.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 63
Councilmember Sawyer asked where the City is getting the money to do the work on all
these contractual services. He stated he struggles and had concerns about this whole
thing when they set this up, that they are merely setting up a fund to hire experts and
people, but not be able to do anything. He asked Public Works Director Freyermuth to
show him on the chart where the fund is actually paying for something to be done. He
stated he sees they are paying experts to be hired or whatever.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they are actually just contractors to do work
that would be necessary.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that is where they are funding $672,000 worth of work.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes, out of Contractual Services, just hiring
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that is just a contractor or the material it takes to build
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it is a little of both and the commodities would
have some of the materials.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they really are not going to do much work with this and
not really be able to go out and solve a drainage problem with this fund.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that is correct. This is more along the lines of
general maintenance. He stated they have around 7,000 inlets within the system and
around 430 miles of curb and this is just to take care of the general maintenance on that
system that they have not been doing in the past. He stated this utility fund is not really
set up to do specific drainage problems at one or two houses that might have flooding in
and around the house. He stated there would be some small projects that would be done
that way, but for the most part this is just the day-to-day maintenance operations needed
to find problems before flooding would occur.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they should be able to see in the budget where they
saved this out of Public Works.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered no.
Councilmember Sawyer stated if it is just cleaning curbs and that kind of thing, he would
hope the City would have been doing that all along.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they have been doing street sweeping in the
past, but will do another pass. This funds the contractual services another pass through
the year on residential streets for street sweeping to remove more debris.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 64
Councilmember Sawyer stated this will be a hard sell to the public if they do not make
something happen. He stated this is the first year they are going to start seeing this
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they have already been paying it.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they might have been paying it, but have not seen
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated bills were due by May 2006 for the second
Councilmember Sawyer stated he sure does not want to sit around there and say they
really did not have the money to do anything. He stated he already has one person
coming up to City Hall that wants the City to do something.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated this will not change major capital projects – the
ones they are doing with SMAC funding and was not intended to take the place of Parks
Councilmember Sawyer stated it is pretty top heavy on the side of personnel.
Councilmember Pflumm asked where all the equipment is.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied the equipment is part of the commodities and
the $90,000 is for lease purchase – lease purchased items for two trucks that will be
purchased this year and have not yet been purchased. He stated it is actually taking time
to get this started up, because of the need for the employee’s to be hired and in place to
do the contracting and maintenance work with the equipment being purchased.
Councilmember Sawyer asked what is the Capital Outlay, because capital means they
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained Capital Outlay is the projects they will be
doing. He stated they would be doing some small drainage projects where they would go
in next to one or two homes. He stated he forgets the locations at this time, but they
provided a list back a year and a half ago of the capital projects to start in on.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that he for one is not very comfortable with how this is
laid out. He stated this is something new and the public is going to struggle with it. He
stated he thinks they need to provide more detail for this utility.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff has a work plan for this utility and staff would be
glad to bring that to a future meeting and provide a more detailed explanation.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that would be great.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 65
Councilmember Pflumm agreed. He stated they need to see what they are buying and
everything involved just to clear up a few things.
City Manager Gonzales stated this fund is just a summary of that fund itself and does not
include the detail. The staff will be glad to bring that to a future meeting.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks that needs to happen, because there are going to
be other people who will ask even more difficult questions than he has tonight.
Public Works Director Freyermuth reviewed one decision package for the Stormwater
Utility, to add one maintenance worker next year for stormwater maintenance activities.
The person would help the field operation crews that do the work for ditching along
roadside ditches on the 70 plus curb/lane miles in the City for ditch section roads in order
to help keep those in shape.
Councilmember Sawyer stated Public Works Director Freyermuth just said something
there – they are bringing on one worker along with the crew, so they do plan on
transferring people from Public Works.
Councilmember Pflumm stated they already paid for those guys last year. He stated this
fund already paid for four new guys to come onboard before they ever had any
Councilmember Sawyer stated he knows that – more engineers.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the $350,000 for personnel services is for
personnel that were added this year, in fact not were all yet added. He stated they have
been working this past spring to hire the new people and put them in place and should
have most of them onboard by the first of July.
Councilmember Sawyer stated if they have the people, but do not have the money to do
anything, then why do they need the people.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied that they do have the money through this –
that is through the Commodities and the Capital Outlay.
Councilmember Sawyer stated Public Works Director Freyermuth just told him that they
do not have hardly any money to do any projects.
City Manager Gonzales interjected by stating that the utility fund, when it was approved,
was committed that it would be work above and beyond what the current workload was
and above and beyond work that was currently being funded out of the General Fund.
She stated the revenue and the expenses are there.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 66
Councilmember Sawyer stated he understands that, but just asked the question earlier and
was told they will do very small projects. He stated they are going to have five people
doing very small projects.
Public Works Director Freyermuth clarified that the five people on staff will do the same
type of projects the City has been doing all along, but just more of them on ditching –
cleaning out the ditches, repairing culverts on driveways on ditch section roads.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he needs to see it all on paper.
Councilmember Pflumm stated those guys are not going to be using that equipment all
the time and when they do go out, they are going to add another guy to do maintenance
on that equipment.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that right now they run two, three-man backhoe
crews to do the ditching work – backhoes, dump truck, and Bobcat when needed, on
those roadside ditches. They are increasing that to four-man crews for better production
of the crews. He stated with a three-man crew, when people are off for illness or
vacations, plus just training and other items that come up, those crews get down to two
people and they have to combine them with another crew and lose the efficiency of
having two locations being worked. He stated they are working towards increasing the
crews to two four-man crews and have one from the crew they are hiring this year, that is
in the utility at this point and this decision package would be to hire a second
maintenance worker to have two four-man crews. There would still be one three-man
crew working with the new equipment, which is a jet rod and vacuum truck to actually
remove material out of curbs and underground pipes – something they do not do now and
do not have the equipment to do, or is an activity they have not done in the past.
Chairperson Sandifer asked if this is shared equipment through the Public Works
Department, or independent equipment being purchased for these crews.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied it would be new equipment stored in the
Public Works Department. He stated the utility is blended with the Public Works
Department and will account for it separately. He stated it will account for the work
program separately, but the crews are working right out of the Public Works facility, as
they are not building a whole new shop. There are currently two crews who have worked
on stormwater and there will now be three crews with the addition of this year’s crew
hired specifically for the stormwater utility.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if there will be three four-man crews for stormwater
Public Works Director Freyermuth clarified that currently it is one four-man and two
three-man crews and to hire an additional person in 2007, would make two four-man
crews and one three-man and that is where they would want to stay. He stated the new
equipment to be used is a good application for a three-man crew.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 67
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is 11 people out in the field. He asked how many
people on staff do they have charged to the stormwater utility.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied they have the four-man crew, plus one
mechanic, and two administrative people – the Stormwater Manager and one Stormwater
Technician. He stated they have seven people charged to it in that $355,000 for this
year’s personnel expenses.
Councilmember Goode asked to get a good bearing and stated the words Contractual
Services confuse him. He stated he does not know if it is a contractor coming in doing
the contracting or not. He asked if when they contract out services, are they merely
contracting out people to just lay things out and tell them what they need to do, or is it the
actual final work.
Public Works Director Freyermuth explained that the Capital Outlay is the area where
they have land improvements, which are materials they use when the crews are working
and they need sod, materials, or grass to replenish. He stated that would actually fall
under the category of Capital Outlay. He stated the Contractual Services goes back to
hiring contractors to do repair of the structures and a lot of different items, as well as land
Councilmember Pflumm asked about the crews. He stated they have a couple backhoes,
Bobcats, and really some pretty good equipment, so are they going to be able to dig out
ditches and possibly put in some riprap. He stated those are the issues that arise, because
they are not doing the project over off of Quivira Road, because they think it is going to
be in the stormwater project and it keeps getting pushed back.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in a larger situation like that, they would not
intend on doing it with the City’s Public Works crews and have not in the past.
Councilmember Pflumm asked why not, because it is one little ditch and not that big of a
Public Works Director Freyermuth responded it actually is, as far as equipment size that
would be needed and the cost of the materials to get it into place. He stated it will be a
sizeable project – possibly $1 to $1.5 million for everything.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he understands that, but is merely saying they could do
some stop-gap things to ease the citizens over there, because it might be 10 years before
they get to that project.
Public Works Director Freyermuth agreed that that project could still be several years
out. He stated they currently do those types of projects, sort of a stop-gap, and that is
what they are doing with the two, three-man crews ran in the past, but also run a list of
about 20 to 40 locations at all times that they can not get to. He stated that is part of the
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 68
reason behind adding this extra crew, to help move quicker on those projects that they do
work with, because they are of the size they can work with their own crews to handle the
project. As time goes on, they will be able to look at some of those things.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the project off of Quivira Road by 56th Street,
might be one they could do things to help the situation if it is going to be 10 years out.
He stated some of the problems seen in the past, even with street projects, is they really
do not want to go in and do maintenance that they could do this year and then have
funding come to them the next year from CARS funding and have to tear out and redo
what they worked with to go ahead and do the full project. He stated this is the same
scenario and if they go in and spend a lot time and effort, then the next year the full
project comes along, they would end up tearing everything out to do the actual final
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they want to make sure their work will stay for
quite some time. He stated as they go along, they will look at all their opportunities to
see what they can do to help with some of these stormwater issues.
City Manager Gonzales reiterated they will put it on the schedule to put that work plan
back before a committee.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Parks and Pipes Sales Tax Fund. He stated
this is the 1/8th cent sale tax voted for in 2000. He stated 50 percent of that is for storm
drainage projects and the other 50 percent is for park improvements.
Finance Director Kidney presented a graph and noted on the left hand side that it shows
projects that were already in the CIP presented earlier as funded projects on all scenarios.
He stated a couple meetings ago, all the ones in 2006 were presented and moved forward.
He stated out over the next several years, it shows some of the stormwater projects that
are planned out of that fund and further out they show future projects yet to be identified
in order to continue the projects in this fund.
Finance Director Kidney continued with Parks, which is the other half of the use of this
fund. He stated some of the major projects done over the last couple years and in 2006
were finishing up the Monticello Park and West Flanders. He stated they did the
skateboard park and next year they will see the Water Tower Park and Clear Creek Trail
being funded for 2007. He stated they have future projects out there over the next several
years that will be funded through this fund.
Chairperson Sandifer asked if they ever put any money out yet for Pioneer Park.
City Manager Gonzales answered they have paid some out for all the work that has been
done to date.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated to make the fund balance, they did push
back Quivira Glenn to 2008.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 69
City Manager Gonzales added they did that in order to meet the schedule on 51st Street,
since it will be a little later getting developed and they need to finish it prior to doing the
Finance Director Kidney stated Pioneer Park was mentioned and continued with the
Parks and Recreation Use Fund. He stated this fund is funded through the park impact
fees and currently it is $350.00 per dwelling unit. He stated when the Council approved
using the City’s portion of the school district tax to be used for the aquatic center, they
put those revenues in this fund as well, so on the expenditures side, it shows the
expenditures – the non-debt expenditures - for the east aquatic center, some in land
acquisition last year and $3.6 million over the current year 2007. He stated the other
portion, the school district portion of this fund, is the $2.5 million for the community
center aquatic center land. He stated the out projects are based on the park impact fees at
the current $350.00 level.
Finance Director Kidney continued with the Special Park and Recreation Fund. He stated
this is another portion of that one-third of the City’s share of the State Liquor Tax. He
stated the use of these funds is restricted only to improvements of current parkland or
recreation programs. He stated he and Parks and Recreation Director Holman worked on
this and actually put together two decision packages for next year, along with funding the
improvements needed out of the Shawnee Town master plan.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated the two for next year are the West Flanders
Park, which is one of the City’s most popular parks. There are a few things missing at
that park and they get a lot of calls. He stated they need shelters and a swing set installed
at that park. He stated there are no shelters at that park for parties and that park is used
all the time by daycares.
Councilmember Pflumm stated he got slammed on his election when he was going door
to door because the City did not put heaters in the restrooms.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated that is a big cost. He stated there are those
little things with these park improvements that they were not able to do at the time that
will make a big difference. He stated this park was developed in 1980 and they added a
restroom which was nice. He pointed out two shelters and the swings north of the
playground equipment which comes to $120,000.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated the next is a very popular park with ball
fields - Gum Springs. He stated they are looking to add two shelters. He stated one
shelter has spurred interest with the Shawnee Soccer Club, kind of like what they did at
Swarner Park for the City and purchased the shelter - everything - and that was a $40,000
gift. He stated they are looking to do that again.
JUNE 6, 2006 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MINUTES PAGE 70
Parks and Recreation Director Holman pointed out an area for another shelter and stated
they do have on Field C some drainage problems, that being their biggest field, the Babe
Ruth Field. He stated those are the key projects.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated for the plan, this would be a nice
improvement to get Shawnee Town moved along, because they are starting to have some
problems with the buildings and it would be nice to develop.
Finance Director Kidney stated those are all the fund forecasts. He stated they are really
excited about being able to match these projects up with the revenues.
City Manager Gonzales stated they will start discussing the General Fund at the next
Public Works and Safety Committee meeting on June 20, 2006.
City Manager Gonzales stated she knows it has been a long evening, but wanted to note
that the staff really does appreciate the Council’s attention and questions. She stated they
have worked long and hard, as she hopes that was apparent, and appreciates every
question because they want to provide the Council with good information. She thanked
them all for their attention during this evening’s long presentation.
Chairperson Sandifer thanked the staff and City Manager Gonzales for all their hard
Councilmember Straub, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 4-0, and the meeting adjourned at 11:28 p.m.
Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary
Vicki Charlesworth, Assistant City Manager/City Clerk