Rebuttal and Commentary to Sworn
Statements by Crystal Leslie on
October 10, 2007 in her worker’s
compensation case deposition.
Composed by Greg Caton in
on December 4, 2007.
Note: All black text on white background
are taken from the original, official
deposition transcript, as submitted by
the court reporter. My comments appear in
black letters with yellow background, just
like this paragraph. Those sections of the
deposition that are not subject to rebuttal,
such as the Stipulations, extraneous
comments having nothing to do with Crystal
Leslie’s testimony, etc. – have been deleted
for ease in following the dialogue. Not one
letter of the underlying deposition itself has
OFFICE OF WORKERS' COMPENSATION
DISTRICT 03 --- STATE OF LOUISIANA
Crystal Leslie – Plaintiff
versus Herbologics, Ltd. d/b/a Luman
Food [sic], et al. -- Defendants
Civil Action No. 07-06334
OCTOBER 10, 2007 2:13 P.M.
AT THE OFFICES OF
4126 LAKE STREET
LAKE CHARLES, LOUISIANA
A P P E A R A N C E S
FOR PLAINTIFF: MR. MARK ZIMMERMAN
ATTORNEY AT LAW
4126 LAKE STREET
LAKE CHARLES, LA 70605
FOR DEFENDANTS: MR. H. DOUGLAS HUNTER
GUGLIELMO, LOPEZ, TUTTLE,
HUNTER & JARRELL
P.O. DRAWER 1329
OPELOUSAS, LA 70571
REPORTED BY: RENEE PARSLEY
CERTIFIED VERBATIM REPORTER
CERTIFIED COURT REPORTER
I N D E X
EXAMINATION BY PAGE NO.
MR. HUNTER ....................................... 5
MR. ZIMMERMAN ................................... 85
E X H I B I T S
the witness hereinbefore named, after being first
duly cautioned and sworn to tell the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth, testified on
oath as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. HUNTER:
Q. Ma'am, would you please give me your full name?
A. Crystal Gail Leslie.
Q. How do you spell Gayle? With a "Y" or an "I"?
Q. My name's Doug Hunter. I represent
Herbologics. I think they went by, what, Luman
Foods or something?
Small point: from 1986 to the present, the d/b/a of
the company has been “Lumen Foods” with an “e”
– this is a minor typo on the part of the
reporter. [Next comment: bottom of p. 6]
Q. This is in regards to your Workers'
Compensation claim. Have you ever given a
Q. You understand that you're under oath to tell
the truth, just as if you were in a courtroom?
Q. I'm going to be asking you a lot of questions.
I just ask that you bear with me. If at any
time you don't understand a question, let me
know, and I'll be glad to rephrase it. Fair
Q. I'd also ask that you not talk when I talk,
because she's trying to take this down on tape,
and she won't understand either one of us.
Q. And the last thing I'm going to ask you is to
speak up loud and clear. Please say "yes" or
"no," instead of "uh-huh" or "huh-uh," because
I may misunderstand that also.
Q. Where do you presently live?
A. 1731 Key L. Miller Road, Lake Charles,
Q. How long have you been at that address?
A. Two and a half weeks.
Q. Who lives with you at that address?
A. My fiancé, Ernie Soileau, my daughters,
Mallory, Morgan, and my son, Chase Deshotel.
Q. Before that address, where did you live?
A. 5711 East Broad Street, Number 95, Lake Charles
Q. What is your date of birth?
Q. Do you know your Social Security number?
Q. Do you have a current Louisiana driver's
Q. Do you know your driver's license number?
Q. Where were you born?
A. Maywood, California.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Just, generally, what part of California is
A. Los Angeles County.
Q. Are your parents still living?
Q. And your father's name?
A. William Medlin. William James Medlin.
Q. How do you spell that last name?
Q. Where does your father live?
A. In Big Bear, California.
Q. And your mother's name?
A. Dusty McCown, M-c - C-o-w-n.
Q. Where does your mom live?
A. Brea, California.
Q. How do you spell that?
A. B-r-e-a, California.
Q. Do you have any brothers and sisters?
Q. How many?
A. I think there's 12. Half, too?
A. Do you want the half brothers and sisters, too?
Q. Start with your full brother and sisters, and
we'll go from there.
A. Okay. My oldest brother, Derrick Medlin, and
then the triplets, Chalee --
Q. How do you spell that?
A. C-h-a-l-e-e Medlin, Cheriece, C-h-e-r-i-e-c-e.
Q. Z-e or --
A. And Brandon Medlin.
Q. Going back to Derrick, how old is he?
A. Forty one.
A. Chalee. She is -- I'm 39 -- 38.
A. Thirty eight.
Q. All of them are 38?
Q. Brandon, too?
Q. All right. Where does Derrick live?
A. The last I heard, he was in Provo, Utah.
Q. When's the last time you've been in contact
A. Probably 11 years. Ten, 11 years.
A. She is in Carson City, Nevada.
Q. When's the last time you talked to her?
A. A couple months -- about a month ago.
A. She is in Riverside, California, and I talked
to her a couple of months ago.
Q. And Brandon?
A. He is now currently incarcerated, I just found
out, and talked to him probably about four or
five months ago.
Q. And where is he incarcerated?
A. I'm assuming California. That's where he was
Q. Where was he living?
A. In -- he was in San Jacinto, and then they
moved to Hesperia or Victorville, California.
Q. And do you have any idea why he's incarcerated?
In all candor, I didn’t know that Crystal had a 38
year old brother (Brandon) who was in prison
for drug distribution. Interestingly, Crystal
bragged about her drug distribution activities
with her first husband, William, on several
occasions (I cannot even remember his name
now). Old family habits die slow – if at all –
to this day Crystal is involved in drug
distribution: she purchases pain medicine from
a pharmacy in Houston and resells them to
retail customers in Lake Charles. But that
comes later in deposition, through the
Q. And the other seven? Are they all from the
A. Half are from my mom, and half are from my dad.
Q. Okay. Let's start with your father's.
A. Okay. There's Dana.
A. Yes. Well, she's been married a few times, I
Q. Okay. Where does Dana live?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Okay. How old is she? Approximately.
A. She's approximately ten years -- ten or 12
years older than me. So, around there. About
Q. So, this would be your father's first family?
Q. So, there's Dana --
A. And Bradley, Brad. He's a few years younger
Q. Do you know where Bradley is?
Q. Any other step-children on your father's side?
A. Yes. There's Little Bill.
Q. Is this from the same mother as --
A. Different mothers.
Q. -- Dana and Bradley?
A. No. Different mothers.
Q. This is a younger family than you --
Q. -- and your brothers and sisters?
Q. Okay. Bill Medlin, I take it?
A. Yes. William James Alec Medlin, Jr.
Q. Where does he live?
A. He's in California somewhere.
Q. Any other on your father's side?
A. Yes. Tiani.
Q. How do you spell that?
Q. Where does she live?
A. In Big Bear, California.
Q. Any more on your father's side?
A. No. That's it.
Q. On your mother's side? Is this from before you
Q. -- and your siblings?
A. Yes. We were the last.
Q. All right. And those children?
A. Jerry, and, honestly, I don't know what their
last name is.
A. I would have to ask my mom. There's Jerry,
Katrina and Linus -- well, Dale.
A. We called him "Linus," but his real name was
Q. You don't know any of their last names?
Q. Do you know their whereabouts?
A. No. My mom knows the whereabouts of one or two
Most people would say it rare for someone to not
know the last name or whereabouts of ANY of
their brothers or sisters, but this is nothing
compared with what is soon to follow.
Q. And your mother is now married to a McCown?
A. No. She took -- that was her maiden name. She
Q. Any other siblings?
A. Nope. I think that's it. We got them all.
Q. Where did you go to high school?
A. Rubidoux High School, La Sierra High School and
Moreno Valley High School. All in California.
Q. Did you graduate?
A. I left home at 16, and when I turned 18, I got
Q. Why did you leave home at the age of 16?
A. I had a step-mother who beat on us.
Q. What was her name?
A. Cherie, C-h-e-r-i --
Q. Wait. I'm sorry. C-h-e --
Q. What was her maiden name? If you know it.
A. My grandpa was her step-dad. His was Allen.
I'm trying to remember when I filed for my
birth certificate. I honestly can't tell you.
It's been so long.
Q. And when did she and your dad divorce?
A. A few years after we all ran away.
Most people would call a home dysfunctional where
not one or two but ALL the children in a
household run away from home, but if this is
true, it would explain illegal drug
distribution as a family occupation. My
experience is that most people in that world
come from dysfunctional homes.
Q. Do you have any idea where Cherie is?
A. She committed suicide.
Q. Approximately when was that?
A. About ten, 11 years ago.
Q. When you left home, where did you go?
A. To a friend's house.
Q. Who was that?
A. My friend, Roxie.
A. R-o-x -- yeah -- i-e.
Q. And her last name?
A. Honestly, I can't remember. She was my little
-- my best friend's cousin.
Q. And how long did you live at Roxie's house?
A. Just about a month.
Q. Where did you go from there?
A. To my ex-husband's house -- apartment.
Q. And what was his name?
A. William Leslie.
Q. When did you and William marry?
A. Honestly, I don't remember. We got together in
'86. My son was born in '90, and we got
married while I was pregnant. So, we got
married in '89.
Q. Where were y'all living?
A. In Riverside, California.
Q. You moved in with him in '86?
A. Yes. As friends.
Q. And you said your son was born in 1990. What
was his name?
A. William Leslie, III, but we had a daughter
Q. And your daughter's name?
A. Ashley Dawn Leslie.
Q. What year was Ashley born in?
Q. Where are your two children now?
A. My daughter, Ashley, is in Georgia working and
supposed to go back to college in January, and
my son is with his dad -- well, with his step-
mother in Georgia right now, finishing his last
Q. When did you and William Leslie, Jr. divorce?
A. I want to say in '91.
The distribution of illegal drugs was a key element
that brought about the end of this marriage –
according to Crystal herself. I have no doubt
that she would now deny ever having made this
statement, as a result of the publication of
this book and her working relationship with the
U.S. Food & Drug Administration as a “snitch.”
Q. And that would have been in California?
Q. In Riverside?
Q. Is that L.A. or Orange?
A. It's Riverside County, actually.
Q. Riverside County?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. After you divorced, where did you go?
A. I stayed in Riverside. We got back together,
and then we moved here, and after about a year,
we split up here, but we were already divorced
when we moved here.
Q. When you divorced, did the children go with you
or with the father?
A. Both. We had joint custody.
A. And we stayed together.
Q. When did y'all move to Louisiana?
A. In 1992.
A. To get away from -- we were divorced. We had
been involved in cocaine, and we wanted to get
away from everything; so, we moved out here.
Q. And was he, likewise, in cocaine --
Q. -- and having problems?
A. Yes. We both went through rehab through our
Q. And where did you get your rehab?
A. I went through a state facility in Riverside.
He went through an out-patient thing.
It only stands to reason – given “Fifth Amendment”
rights about self-incrimination that Crystal
would be asked, and narrowly reveal, her
involvement as a drug user at this stage of the
deposition, and not her extensive – and still
existing – work as a drug dealer. But even this
testimony is false: both Crystal and her
current boyfriend of five years, Ernie
Soilleau, have drug addiction problems.
Ernie’s drug of choice, by Crystal’s own and
frequent admission at the end of my involvement
with her as an employee, is “meth.” Crystal’s
almost daily drug of choice is marijuana – but
that is only correct as to what I was an
eyewitness to – having to frequently request
that she stop smoking marijuana in the vicinity
of our commercial properties. I did not
witness her use any “heavier” drugs – be they
of natural or pharmaceutical origin. Some may
ask, at this point, why I would have someone on
the payroll who I knew to be a drug addict and
even drug dealer. Two reasons: first, I knew
none of this until I was released from the
halfway house on June 5, 2006; secondly, she
gave notice that she was quitting the company
and moving to California later that month, and
she DID, in fact, leave and move to California
in August. Why fire someone if they are
already quitting?; thirdly, Crystal’s drug
habit did not interfere with her job until
2007, just shortly before we sold Lumen Foods;
fourthly, we had a standing policy at Lumen
Foods to not interfere in the private lives of
our employees. I had a pressman on the payroll
for over 10 years whom everyone knew was an
alcoholic. I didn’t like it – but my attitude
was that if this person did their job well,
what right did I have to interfere in their
dysfunctional private life? Fifth – and lastly
– Crystal Leslie “borrowed” $12,000 from Lumen
Foods’ check book (without approval, as the
company’s bookkeeping from 2003 to 2005) while
I was in prison. She was in the process of
attempting to “make payments.” Call me stupid
– but I actually didn’t want to lose that money
without effecting some mechanism for getting
the funds returned. As a result of her work
with Federal agents, Crystal now doesn’t have
to worry about EVER paying it back.
Q. How long were y'all together in Louisiana?
A. About a year, year and a half.
Q. Where is he -- where did he go after that?
A. They stayed here. He remarried. He moved to
Texas. He moved back here, and then they
currently moved to Georgia, and now he just
took a job in New Orleans; so, his wife and
them are still in Georgia, and he's in New
Q. What's his new wife's name?
Q. When you separated in '93, how long did he stay
in Louisiana before he moved to Texas?
A. About four or five years.
Q. When your husband moved to Texas, did the kids
stay with you or with him?
A. They went with him to Texas.
Even in the U.S., it is in a minority of cases
where the ex-husband takes the children.
Q. And I'm sorry. You said he moved to Texas.
Then, he moved back here?
A. Yes. His job moved him.
Q. What part of Louisiana?
A. Lake Charles.
Q. How long were they back in Lake Charles?
A. Not long.
Q. And then they went to Georgia?
Q. What part of Georgia?
A. Valdosta -- well, Brunswick -- no. I'm sorry.
That's where my daughter's at. Brunswick,
Georgia, St. Simon Island.
Q. What does your ex-husband do?
A. He's an engineer designer.
Like so many other elements of this deposition that
have “bizarre” written all over them – and this
may seem peevish: but just what is an
“engineer designer” . . . an industrial
engineer, a person who remakes the careers of
other engineers, what?
Q. Is there any reason why the kids moved with him
to Texas instead of staying with you?
A. Because he wanted them to.
Q. What kind of custody arrangement did you have
A. We had joint legal custody. Physical -- he was
-- he had physical, but it was -- we pretty
much let the kids go where they wanted to go.
Q. And was this still the same custody arrangement
from way back in --
Q. -- California?
A. California. Yes.
Q. Y'all never had any civil proceedings in
Louisiana or Texas?
Q. Let's start with when you moved down to
Louisiana. What did you do?
A. Went to work for Family Dollar Store, and then
Chateau Charles as a hostess, and then moved to
bartending. Went to beauty school. Didn't
like it. Quit.
Q. Okay. Let's slow down a little bit. Family
Dollar Store where?
A. In Westlake.
Q. How long did you work at the Family Dollar
A. Oh, maybe a few months.
Q. You were just a cashier?
Q. I take it, after you got your G.E.D., you
didn't go to college?
Q. Have you had any --
A. Now, in California, I went to real estate
school and then took the bar exam, missed three
more than I should have, and then we moved out
Q. Back to Family Dollar Store. You left. Where
did you go then?
A. To Chateau Charles.
Q. What did you do there?
A. First, I hostessed in the restaurant, and then
I moved to bartending in the bar.
Q. How long did you stay there?
A. A couple of years.
Q. Where did you go after that, again?
A. Ray's Downtown Bar and Grill.
Q. That's here in Lake Charles?
A. It was.
Q. What were you doing at Ray's?
Q. How long did you stay at Ray's?
A. Maybe five months.
Q. Why did you leave that job?
A. Had a problem with the manager.
Q. And who was the manager?
A. Jeff Northcutt.
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. Okay. Had you and your husband separated again
by this time?
Q. So, you were living alone?
Q. Have you ever married since --
Q. -- remarried since then?
Q. Have you ever had any other children?
Q. Why don't we get into that right now. How
Q. Start with the oldest.
A. Mallory Deshotel.
Q. How old is she now?
A. Twelve. Morgan.
Q. Okay. Hold on just a minute. Mallory, who is
A. Robert Deshotel.
Q. And where is Robert now?
A. In Carlyss, Louisiana.
Q. Did y'all ever live together?
Q. How long?
A. About two years, three years.
Q. And the second child?
A. Morgan Deshotel.
Q. How old is she?
Q. They're twins?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. Same father?
Q. And the third child?
A. Chase Daniel Deshotel.
Q. How old is he?
A. He's ten. Almost 11.
Q. And, again, the father was Robert?
Q. Where do these three children live?
A. With me.
Q. Any other children?
Q. Now, then you and Robert lived together?
Q. And y'all lived in Lake Charles or where?
A. Lake Charles and California.
Q. How much of that time in Lake Charles? How
much in California?
A. Probably about six months in California, and
the rest of the time was here.
Q. When y'all went to California, what was that
A. That was where I'm from, and I didn't trust the
doctors out here, and I was pregnant; so, I
went back home to have my doctor deliver my
Q. That was the twins?
Q. Why did y'all move back here?
A. He's from here. My other kids were close here.
Q. When y'all moved to California, were you living
with family or --
Q. -- did you have your own place?
A. I lived with my brother, Derrick.
Q. I think the last job that we had talked about
was Ray's. Where did you work after Ray's?
A. Piccadilly was the next place I went to work
at, I believe.
Q. In Lake Charles?
Q. What were you doing at Piccadilly?
A. Checking -- well, checker and bus tables. I
wouldn't say it was waitressing, but you're
called a waitress.
Q. All right. How long did you stay at
A. A couple of years.
Q. What does Robert do?
A. He was working offshore on the boats. He's now
Q. Commercial? Residential construction?
A. Residential construction.
Q. Have you and Robert ever gone to court to do
anything about your custody?
A. Child support. He was never -- I mean, we went
to court for child support, and he asked about
visitation rights, and pretty much the judge
told him to deal with me, so --
Q. Where was that? In Lake Charles?
Q. Is your child support collected by the State?
Q. All right. I think we were back at Piccadilly.
You were working as a, quote, waitress. Was
that before or after you had the twins?
Q. What did you do after Piccadilly?
A. Then, I went to school for accounting at Delta.
Q. Why did you leave Piccadilly?
A. Not enough money.
Q. Were you living with Robert at the time?
Q. Were you living by yourself?
Q. Okay. What school did you go to?
A. Delta Tech School of Business.
Q. Did you ever get a degree from there?
Q. What, is that a two-year degree or something?
A. Associate in accounting.
Q. Approximately what time frame are we looking
A. From '98 to 2000.
Q. After you had your degree, what did you do?
A. Then, I went to work for Expedius for about
three months, and they let me go -- almost
Q. What office?
A. It was in the Hibernia Tower here in Lake
Q. And what were you doing for them?
A. Plug in numbers in the computer.
Q. And I'm sorry. You said they let you go after
a couple of months?
A. Yes. Right before three months.
Q. What was their reason?
A. She said I didn't understand some things, and
when I confronted her, she says, "Well, it's
not just that. It's not just that. It's not"
-- and everything I confronted her on, she
would say, she couldn't back up, and then it
boiled down to she just didn't think it was
going to work out.
Q. Did you see any problems while you were working
A. Yeah. They weren't -- we were plugging numbers
for phone bills, and if the numbers didn't
balance, then I was told to just go ahead and
put in what needed to be put in; it would be
okay; and when I pointed it out, then shortly
after, I was let go.
I asked a friend who worked for the phone company
if this was possible, and he told me this
testimony is patently absurd. Phone bills are
entirely automated. No human beings are
involved in making the arithmetic functions of
the phone bills work. If there was any truth
to this testimony, it would very easily leak
out and pose major PR problems for the phone
company so involved. After all, phone bills
are sufficiently transparent for an end user to
audit their own bill with a simple calculator.
Q. What did you do after that?
A. Then, I was hired at U-Tech (ph) for maybe a
month, month and a half, and it didn't work
Q. What kind of work does U-Tech do?
A. They're something with automotives and big
Q. What were you doing for them?
A. Some invoicing, bookkeeping.
Q. And why didn't it work out?
A. I don't know. She just said that she needed
somebody who was going to learn what they did
Q. From either Expedius or U-Tech, did you file
for unemployment in between any of that?
A. (Witness shakes head negatively.)
Q. After U-Tech, where did you go?
A. Then, I went to work for Herbologics.
Q. And what was your position there?
A. Bookkeeper, accounting, turned into manager and
production manager and pretty much ran the
Q. How long did you work at Herbologics?
A. From 2002 until I was fired in July.
Q. Of this year?
This testimony is false and Crystal Leslie knows
it. Yes, she was hired to do bookkeeping in
2002 – initially as a part-time employee. As a
small company, we had no need for a full-time
bookkeeper. After she was hired, Leslie
expressed an interest in changing to full-time
employment. She seemed eager, optimistic, and
loyal, so over time we had her assume more and
more functions, beginning with inventory
control, and eventually overseeing production
while I was in prison. To say, however, that
she RAN the company, when my wife and I had
been doing that together from 1992 to 2003, is
to say that my wife just stepped aside and had
Crystal assume all managerial responsibility
for the 26 months I was imprisoned. That
simply isn’t a truthful statement.
Q. They went through a sale of ownership in March?
A. Supposedly, yes.
Q. Okay. What do you mean, "supposedly"?
A. I don't know if they actually sold it or if
they're still the new owners and they just
hired a new president.
Q. What do you know about Herbologics?
A. As far as I know, it's supposed to have been
dissolved. There's no Herbologics anymore.
This is false testimony and Crystal knows it.
Herbologics, Ltd., as of this writing (Dec.
2007) is an ongoing enterprise, even if it is
now in the process of being re-created as a
result of our having moved to Ecuador. As for
“supposedly” selling Herbologics, Crystal
Leslie is now lying to fit the storyline she
told the FDA. She lied to Federal agents, and
now she has to cover her tracks. These are the
facts known to me, my wife, Crystal Leslie, and
all the employees of Lumen Foods who were on
the payroll in March, 2007, when we sold.
Lumen Foods was a “d/b/a” of Herbologics, Ltd.
It was sold as an “asset sale.” That is, the
division, with all its physical assets were
sold to Dana Dyskstra on March 15, 2007. We
kept the corporate entity, Herbologics, Ltd.
This kind of sale is not uncommon and works
well to protect the buyer of a business who
might be concerned with unknown liabilities. I
can think of no greater liability than having a
lying U.S. Government declare war on a small
businessman and his family because an agent on
their payroll has been instructed to fulfill a
political hit. There were no secrets related
to the sale of Lumen Foods. Not to the public,
not to the bank, not to the Federal Government,
not to the employees . . . and certainly not to
Q. Who was running it when it was Herbologics?
A. Katherine Caton would be owner. Greg actually
ran it until he went to jail, and then --
Q. C-a-t --
Q. Okay, and who is -- Greg who?
A. Greg Caton. That is Ms. Katherine Caton's
Again – a minor typo. Cathryn.
Q. Okay. You said he went to jail?
Q. For what?
A. Introducing an unimproved drug and mail fraud.
Q. You mean unimproved as in the --
Q. And what was that drug?
A. Cansema and H3O.
Q. How do you spell Cansema?
Q. I'm sorry. What was the other one?
Q. What was the other charge you said? Mail
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. When did all of this start?
A. September 17th, 2003, we were raided.
Q. By the F.D.A.?
Q. And he pled or was found guilty or what?
A. He pled guilty. He went and did a plea
Small point here, but since we’re dealing in
inaccuracies: you don’t “go and do” a plea
agreement. The defendant is never pro-active in
this area. You are presented with papers. You
are deliberately given a time span making it
impossible to read the stack of papers you are
presented. And then you must sign them
immediately. That is what happened in my case,
and given what I learned in Federal prison, I
have come to believe that it now happens in the
majority of cases. Because the Government can
do whatever it wants to, it doesn’t matter what
the plea agreement says anyway, because (1)
Federal prosecutors of the U.S. Government live
up to their reputation as being the world’s
most prolific liars, and (2) what you, as a
defendant are primarily concerned with is what
the end result will be: the property shakedown
and the prison time. As I told Judge Tucker
Melancon, my sentencing judge, if my plea
agreement said that I improperly emptied my
cat’s kitty litter box and it said I had to do
five years in prison for that, I would be
forced to sign it. Coercion is now a critical
component, as former Assistant U.S. Secretary
of the Treasury, Paul Craig Roberts, has noted,
of almost all plea agreements.
Q. That was in federal court?
Q. And to your knowledge, is he still doing time?
A. He got out in 2006, I believe, in March. He is
on parole and currently being investigated.
This is the first time that Crystal reveals in the
deposition that the FDA is planning new
actions. I originally learned of this from
Tabetha LeDoux, my former secretary, because
she was confronted by FDA agent, John Armand,
at her home, inquiring (among other things) as
to why I was not making payments to Kevin
Q. Okay. What did he do after he got out?
A. He went back to doing the same stuff he did.
Q. Was he still involved with Herbologics?
This is a patent lie and Crystal Leslie knows it.
After I got out of prison, I began working with
Teju Srivastav, and even created a website for
our joint activities. That website was
naturascio.com . . . we were planning to make
a rust remover that utilizes something close to
H3O as one of its ingredients. Industrial rust
removers have nothing to do with FDA law – and
what infuriates me, is that Crystal knew what
we were making and why. She knows that the
industrial solvents we were making – originally
the domain of PreservX.com, which I created in
early 2003, have nothing to do with the FDA.
She lied as a form of (1) having a creative way
of not repaying the $12,000 she owed Lumen
Foods and (2) seeking revenge because the new
owner of Lumen Foods, Dana Dykstra, rightly
fired her for gross insubordination.
Q. And you say he's currently under investigation.
Is that by the F.D.A. again?
Q. What was Cansema? What was it billed as?
A. It's natural herbs that have been known to help
Q. And H3O?
A. It has a thousand uses. You can use it as a
preservative, scars, insect bites,
disinfectant, pink eye, earaches, toothache.
Q. Now, then Greg was running the Lake Charles
Q. What was the involvement of Katherine?
A. His wife.
A. His wife.
Q. Well, I mean, was she --
A. That was his involvement --
Q. -- involved in the business?
A. Her involvement was his wife, and she did what
he told her to do.
My wife has already been active in our business
activities. We work as an active man and wife
team. Repeatedly, Crystal paints Cathryn, both
here and elsewhere – for reasons unknown to me
– as a mousy housewife who is incapable of
sustaining intelligence that exceed the bare
sustenance of basic human physiological
functions. The truth is that Cathryn has four
college degrees: one from Beeville (a community
college in Texas), a B.S. and Masters from
Texas A & M; and her doctorate from Clayton
School of Natural Medicine. Many of our
friends will tell you that she is my
intellectual superior, though thoughtfully less
communicative – something I would not attempt
Q. But did she work at Herbologics?
A. Yes and no. I mean, she didn't really do a lot
with the business. It was mainly Greg or I.
It was just her name on everything.
Q. Now, then what were you -- what was your
understanding of the sale? Who took over
A. We were told that the new president, Dana
Dykstra, was the new owner.
Q. Dykstra, how do you spell that?
Q. Had he been involved in Herbologics before this
Q. -- supposed transfer?
A. No. Not to my knowledge.
Q. Why do you think he's not the new owner?
A. He straight out said he's not the new owner;
he's just the president; he doesn't own the
Q. Has he told you who owns the company?
Q. Do you still think the Catons own the company?
A. Possibly, yes.
Q. Is Greg still involved in Herbologics?
A. If -- well, supposedly Herbologics is
Q. Okay. What's the new --
A. Or at the time --
Q. What's the new name?
A. Well, as far as we were told, Luman --
Herbologics, D./B./A. Luman Foods was sold and
to Dana Dykstra and is now called Luman Soy
Foods and there is no Luman Foods, but, yet,
they still have accounts that checks go into
for Luman Foods.
This is highly disturbing. This entire run of
responses is false. I know for a fact that
Crystal Leslie knows it to be false. As
previously stated, Lumen Foods was sold to Dana
Dyskstra as an asset sale. If Dana told
Crystal that he was not the owner, it would not
be technically incorrect: like ourselves, Dana
takes projects he invests in and puts them into
corporate entities for liability protection.
So, yes, technically he is not the owner. His
corporate is. But the thing is, Crystal – even
with an Associates in Accounting and a few
years of working for small corporations, knows
this. She is making these statements because
she cannot contradict statements she has
obviously been making to FDA agent, John
Armand, behind the scenes. She has to make
every attempt to be consistent. “Oh, what
tangled webs we weave, when first we set out to
Q. Since March or whenever this transfer took
over, have you seen Katherine or Greg Caton?
Q. Where have you seen them?
A. At the office.
Q. When's the last time you saw them at the
A. Probably some time in June or July.
Q. What were they doing?
A. Tying up loose ends with the business, getting
their personal effects out, handling -- taking
care of last-minute stuff, as far as I knew.
This indicates that she was never “outside the
loop” in knowing what was really going on.
Our contract with Dana Dykstra called for
Cathryn and I to act as consultants for 60
days. So from March 15th to May 15th, roughly,
we worked in training Dana and his assignees,
as part of the sale of the business. Our
continued presence was only because I was given
permission by Dana to continue to use the
internet and take care of last minute things
before we left the United States for good –
permanently . . . never to return. Dana knew
this. The employees knew this. All our
friends knew this. Hell – it took UniGroup
(United Van Lines) four days in early April,
2007 to pack up 90% of our personal belongings
in two 40 foot containers, all bound for
Guayaquil, Ecuador. In truth, there is no one
in our circle of associates who didn’t know
what we were doing.
Q. Since June or whatever, have you seen either
one of them?
Q. Do you know where they are presently?
A. No. Either here, Texas or Equador.
Q. Why do you say Texas or Equador?
A. Because they're moving to Equador. They've
already set up a house down there, and her
family's in Texas; that's where their son is
at, while they take of all this stuff with
Equador to open their new herbal company.
Q. What do you know about this new company?
A. They wanted to move out of the country to be
able to sell their products that they were
selling here, that the F.D.A. raided them and
threw him in jail for.
Q. So, basically same type of business?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative). Yes.
The answer is incomplete. We moved to Ecuador,
because we want what our ancestors originally
came to North America in search of – something
that no longer exists. We wanted freedom of
speech, freedom of assembly, freedom to own
firearms to protect one’s household . . . basic
things that are now fading as the United
States, to use the words of John Kaminski,
morphs into a criminal police state. You see
the same thing when you read the reasons given
our friend, former U.S. astronaut, Brian
O’Leary’s, for leaving the U.S. and moving to
Ecuador (See www.brianoleary.com). As for our
business activity here, we still have
EcuadorPassionFruit.com – which is doing
something illegal if (1) passion fruit is made
illegal, and (2) the U.S. does a forceable
military takeover of Ecuador. (Not impossible,
but unlikely.) There is nothing illegal about
our herbal activities in Ecuador – even under
the strictest interpretation of U.S. FDA law.
But note, Crystal’s attempt to make it sound
Q. Now, other than the divorce you were involved
in in California, have you ever been involved
in any other litigation, either as a plaintiff
or a defendant, and excluding this claim that
I'm here for?
A. Car accidents?
A. There was a car accident.
Q. Okay. When did that happen?
Q. Where did that happen?
A. Here in Lake Charles.
Q. Where in Lake Charles?
A. Nelson and Country Club.
Q. Were you driving a vehicle?
A. I was driving, and a drunk driver ran into me.
Q. Who was the drunk driver?
A. Honestly, I don't know. I'd have to pull out
the paperwork. I don't remember her name.
Mr. Chesson was your attorney?
Yes. He has all that information.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. All right. How did the accident happen?
A. I was driving home from a Girl Scout, Boy Scout
meeting and -- headed home, and she turned into
me, and I was knocked unconscious.
Q. Approximately what time?
A. I think it was anywhere around 5:00 or 7:00,
Q. At night?
Q. Which road were you on?
A. I was on Country Club, headed west. They were
on Country Club in the lane to head east but
turned from the straight lane and headed north
and turned into me.
Q. They were headed east, and they turned north --
Q. -- and you were headed west, and they hit you?
Q. Was it a head-on collision?
A. No. She turned into my tire, right at my front
-- right at my driver's side door, the tire in
Q. Anybody in the car with you?
A. My oldest daughter, Ashley, my son, Chase, and
my daughter's friend, Zack.
Q. What's the status of the litigation?
A. It was settled shortly after, about six, seven
Q. How much did you get?
A. I think I ended up getting 6,000, close to
6,000, around that.
Q. What kind of injuries did you have?
A. Laceration to the forehead, the elbow and neck
injuries. Knocked unconscious.
Q. Which elbow?
A. The left elbow.
Q. What was wrong with your neck?
A. Whiplash, I guess.
Q. Did you see a doctor for those injuries?
A. A.M.D. Medical Center here in Lake Charles,
Women and Children's Emergency Room and Dr.
Duhon, David Duhon, chiropractor.
Q. Have those injuries resolved?
A. Pretty much. I mean, they're -- there's --
when the drunk driver hit me, they found
osteoarthritis in my neck from a fall off of a
horse when I was 15 -- 13 -- 13 or 14. It was
13, 15 years ago, anyways. They found that
there was osteoarthritis from a fall off of a
horse when I was a teenager. So, that's
something -- it'll never go away.
Q. And you still have problems with that?
A. With my neck, yeah. It feels heavy, and it
Q. Any other lawsuits you've been involved in?
A. I'm currently in one for -- a guy pulled out in
front of me, made a U-turn in the middle of the
freeway. He was headed east. I was headed
west on the 10 freeway. He went through the
median and cut in front of me, which caused --
I was either T-bone him or sideswipe the truck
next to me; so, I decided to take the truck
next to me instead, and he was at fault. The
police report showed him at fault as a hit and
run, and that is still going on. I'm still
seeking treatment for that.
Q. So, you tried to miss the car that was making -
A. Pulled out in front of me.
Q. -- a U-turn, and you hit the car on the side of
A. Yes. I took the safer auto accident.
Q. When did this happen?
A. June 13th of '07.
Q. Who investigated that accident? State police?
A. I believe it was Sulphur Police came out.
Q. Have you filed a lawsuit against anybody --
Q. -- because of that?
Q. Did they ever identify the driver who pulled
Q. Where is that suit pending?
A. Here in Lake Charles. Chris Chesson has that
Q. Were you injured in that accident?
Q. What injuries did you have there?
A. They found military stiff neck. I guess
there's no curve in my neck. Whiplash and
something with my hips.
Q. Who are you seeing for those injuries?
A. Dr. David Duhon.
Q. Have you been seen any place else? Emergency
room or anything else?
A. No. I see a pain management doctor.
Q. Who is that?
A. Care Pro. They're called Care Pro, C-a-r-e P-
Q. Who's the actual doctor?
A. Honestly, I don't know the name. They have a
few that come in there and --
Q. What's David Duhon doing for you?
A. He is my chiropractor. He does adjustments and
the electrode therapy.
Q. How often do you see him?
A. Right now, I'm down to twice a week.
Q. And Care Pro, how often are you seeing them?
A. Once a month, but I'm past due.
Q. What's the status of the lawsuit?
A. Right now, I just -- I'm -- I don't know. I
mean, I haven't talked to the attorney. I'm
still seeing the doctor. I'm assuming they're
waiting till the doctor releases me, and then
we'll go from there.
Q. And the 2004 motor vehicle accident on Nelson
and Country Club Road, you were working at
Herbologics at the time?
Q. Did you miss work?
A. A few days, yes. I think two, and they wanted
me to come back to work.
Q. And the recent accident on June 13th, 2007,
were you working at the time?
Q. Still at Herbologics?
Q. Did you miss work?
At this time, Dana Dykstra owned Lumen Foods, and I
was coming in “as needed” – more or less “on
call” – but also I was using Lumen’s internet
connection. She wasn’t injured at Lumen Foods,
but she still thought she could “score” with a
lawsuit. This may have provided the inspiration
for going after Herbologics’ for an in-house
injury she knows never occurred. Her injuries
– which are undeniable – are traffic-related,
not work-related. She knows this . . . but it
isn’t profitable to acknowledge it.
Q. Any other lawsuits that you've been involved in
other than the divorce?
A. I think that's it.
Q. Have you ever been convicted of any criminal
Q. At the present time --
A. I don't know. I was on probation for vicious
dogs. Does that count?
I'm sorry. For what, ma'am? Vicious
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Where was that?
A. Here in Lake Charles.
A pit bull?
People who like pit bulls really like
The dog antagonized my dog. It came
into my yard. A little Chihuahua pooped
every day in my yard --
-- and my kids forgot to shut the door,
and they went outside, and the dogs --
there was two pits and a lab mix, and it
was one of the little pits and the lab mix
that went after the Chihuahua, because it
came barking at my kids, and when it did,
they said, "Huh-uh," chomp! It was fine as
long as it didn't come in my yard.
But when it came in my yard, they ate
Oh my goodness. I see. The Chihuahua
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. What's the status of those charges?
A. I have my probation. It's all taken care of.
I paid all my restitution. I'm done.
Q. Was that through the city court system?
Q. Do you still have the dog?
A. No. One of them, yes.
Q. But did they take the dog that was involved or
A. No. They let us have them back.
A. Just labeled them "vicious."
Q. Any pending criminal charges at the present
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to hit a raw
nerve. I apologize.
Never been in trouble in my life and I
-- like I say, I got a year's probation for
a dog. I'm like, "They did what dogs do."
They didn't -- it wasn't like they went --
It's all right. It's okay.
They antagonized my dogs first.
I don't think it has much to do with
your work accident, or we will see.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. All right. Back to lawsuits. There's no more?
Q. All right. Have you ever been involved in any
other motor vehicle accidents that we haven't
A. Not where I was hurt. I mean, just like a
little fender bender. Somebody in California
Q. Was this before you ever moved to Louisiana?
Q. It was on your trip back when you were
A. Last -- no. It was last year.
Interesting aside: she admits to her being in
California last year. What she doesn’t say is
that she QUIT Lumen Foods in the summer of
2006, and briefly worked for me (in preparation
for the sale of Lumen Foods) from January to
March 15, 2007. She was actively involved in
trying to get Unemployment Compensation under
the guise that she was laid off by the company.
If she had told the Louisiana Labor people that
she quit, she would have been ineligible.
Again, she has to lie. She can’t tell the
truth, because it isn’t profitable.
Q. What town in California?
A. Moreno Valley.
Q. Tell me what happened.
A. I was sitting at a stop light, and this woman
in this Lexus S.U.V. just -- she barely bumped
into me, dented my bumper a little bit. I
thought my engine fell out, honestly. I --
Q. Did the police investigate?
A. No. She begged me not to call the police
because she didn't have a license and her
boyfriend was coming and "Please don't"; so,
they said they would take care of it. I didn't
call the police.
Q. Did they take care of it?
Q. When you're talking about "take care of,"
you're talking about the property damage?
Q. Any other motor vehicle accidents you've been
A. One in, I want to say, '92.
Q. Where was that?
A. In Riverside, California.
Q. How did that happen?
A. A van hit me on the freeway, rear-ended me on
Q. Were you injured?
A. No. I didn't -- I never went to seek any
Q. Did the police investigate?
Q. Which department?
A. I'm assuming Riverside or -- C.H.P. or the
Riverside Police Department. I never sought
damages or anything for my -- I was on vacation
in California, and I had to hurry up and get
back to work here.
Q. So, there was no claim from that accident?
Q. Any other motor vehicle accidents?
A. Nope. That's it.
Q. Any other accidents that you suffered injuries,
whether it be a slip and fall, a dog bite,
falling off a horse, like you mentioned
A. I went to the emergency room. I slipped on the
stairs at my sister's last year when we were in
California, and it just felt like it aggravated
my -- it made me hurt; so, I went to the
Q. And which sister?
Q. Which E.R. did you go to? Do you know?
A. Moreno Valley. It was one of the -- it's not a
charity hospital -- I guess it is, but it --
they don't call it a charity hospital out
Q. What was wrong, again?
A. I just aggravated my -- I fell -- I started
down the steps, slipped, and I hit my tail bone
on the steps and I was hurting; so, I went to
the emergency room.
Q. Did you ever have to go over and follow up with
any other --
Q. -- healthcare providers?
A. No. It went away after about a couple of
Q. Was any claim made because of that?
Q. Any other accidents where you suffered injury?
Q. Have you had any other claims for medical
treatment, for any reason?
Q. Now, then in the accident with Herbologics,
what part of your body did you injure?
A. I felt the -- right by my bra strap, right
below it (indicating) and right -- like right
below my shoulder blades is where the -- I felt
something just like "Bloop," and then the pain
went up and down.
A complete lie. Had Crystal actually sustained
this injury, she would have notified me, had me
fill out the proper paperwork (which she knew
well . . . she used to handle Worker’s Comp
issues as an extensive of her work as our
bookkeeper). All our workers knew we had
worker’s compensation and if they sustained a
work-related injury, all they had to do was
come to us so we could complete and submit the
Q. Now, I think we had talked that you had had a
neck problem, but this was different?
Q. Have you ever had problems in this area of your
A. Just aching off and on from, I guess,
activities, not this pain, though.
Q. Just from over working, over exerting yourself,
A. Yeah. Yes. My pain would travel from my neck
into my shoulders. That was basically about
it, most of the time. That was before the
Q. Growing up, did you have any other medical
problems where you sought medical treatment,
other than what we've talked about?
A. No. I mean, hernia. Does that count?
Q. Where'd you get the hernia?
A. It was in my stomach. I was born with it.
They took it out when I was six years old.
Q. Any other problems before this accident at
Herbologics, that we haven't talked about?
Q. After you moved in in the -- where are you now?
Sulphur? Lake Charles area?
A. Lake Charles.
Q. Have you had a family physician over here?
A. No. Just the Dr. Perry, who I'm seeing for the
work accident, and Dr. Duhon for the
Q. The first time you saw Dr. Perry was for this
accident at Herbologics?
Q. While you were in the southwest Louisiana area,
have you ever visited a hospital, other than
what we've talked about?
A. No. Well, I went to -- when it was bothering
me, I went to St. Pat's Emergency Room, but
they wouldn't see me because they couldn't get
a hold of Workman's Comp to get it approved.
You weren't open yet, and it didn't just
happen. It had been a few months; so, they
didn't really see me.
Q. Other than that, nothing else?
Q. Okay. Do you have a local O.B./G.Y.N.?
A. Nope. Charity hospital.
Q. That would be Moss Regional?
Q. Now, the --
Can I make a phone call real quick?
Sure. We'll take a break. No problem.
Okay. I just need to call and send
somebody to be with my kids. I didn't
realize it was going to take this long.
Whereupon a short recess was taken,
after which the proceedings continued as
Now, on the pain management thingy,
when I started -- because I was thinking
I'd been seeing the doctor for a couple of
years since I've been hurting, off and on
for a few years. Since the drunk driver,
things -- you know, some days are good;
some are bad.
Since the 2004 you talked about?
I didn't start seeing the pain
management doctor until 2006, and I thought
it was just -- you know, just aggravation
from the drunk driving. I don't know. It
was just -- the center of it, from my drunk
driver, was my neck and my shoulders, and
then over working, I guess, it would go
down to my back. There are parts where my
back -- some days, I'll circle this part
(indicating) hurts because I did this this
week and this hurts now; so, I don't know
if I was clear on that.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Now, then why don't you tell me about the
accident at Herbologics.
A. Okay. I was loading a -- I was up on the
ladder that leads to the hopper machines on the
packaging machine and lifting up five-gallon
buckets of meatless meat jerky and dumping it
into the hopper, and when I turned and I
dumped, I had a sharp pain and I -- it felt
like something go "Bloop" in my back, and I had
to quit working and take a break and took my
pain medicine and went back to work.
Q. Okay. So, you were already under some pain
medicine from the motor vehicle accident?
A. From the drunk driver, yes. That's what I see
the pain doctor for, but I didn't start seeing
him till 2006. So, it just got worse over
working, because before that, I was able to
take Advil, Aleve or something, and I think it
aggravated more over me doing things I
shouldn't have been doing.
It cannot be determined from this testimony if this
is the same place she obtains pain medication
Q. Now, how big is this hopper?
A. What do you mean, how big?
Q. Well, you said --
A. You would have to walk up ladders that you
roll, move around and you roll it behind the
machine. It's probably -- you go up to the
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Ceiling in here?
It looks like --
A. Maybe --
-- ten feet, ten or 11 feet?
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Probably a ten-foot ceiling?
Q. The five-gallon bucket of meatless beef jerky -
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. -- how much did that weigh?
A. Actually, we put them on the scale, and they
would go anywhere from 26 to 30-something
pounds, depending on the flavor.
Q. Do you remember what flavor this one was?
A. Honestly, I don't remember what flavor it was.
Q. Was anybody in the area with you at the time?
Q. Was anybody else working at the time?
Q. Who else was working?
A. Zoe Farris. I think Mike was there at the time
-- Hendrix. Sabrina, I think she had just
gotten there, or she got there right after
that. Katherine Caton, Greg Caton.
I ran Lumen Foods from 1986 until my imprisonment
on September 17, 2003 – most of that time with
my wife, Cathryn. During all that time Crystal
is the only person to have reported an injury
related to carrying ANYTHING. Mike Hendrix was
the extractor operator. It was the job of men
present to do the heavy lifting. I never told
Crystal she HAD to haul 30 pound pails up to
the packaging machine hopper. It wasn’t her job
to do this. I had men on the payroll to do
that. Had any woman who ever worked for me
said that they needed help, they all knew I
would provide it. In that business, you
proactively do what is necessary to minimize
injury. Even IF you’re an insensitive person
who doesn’t have compassion for your workers,
you still know that repeated complaints to
Worker’s Comp will only increase your premiums.
Q. Sabrina, do you know her last name?
A. Freeman. She's still employed there.
Q. Did anybody -- well, strike that. Did you
report this incident to anybody?
Q. To who?
A. Zoe, Mike, Tabby, Sabrina, Greg, Katherine.
Q. What did you tell them?
A. I told them I hurt myself and I hurt.
Q. Did you work out the rest of that day?
This isn’t true. It was frequent for Crystal to
report that she was an experiencing aches and
pains. No human being goes through the traffic
accidents that Crystal has been through without
having them. But she extrapolates one
particular incident and blows it up to a work-
related accident. Had this been a real
accident, Crystal knew full well how to get the
necessary paperwork done. And we would never
ignore an employee’s report of a work-related
Q. Did you ask to be seen by a doctor on that day?
Q. Did you ever ask anybody if you could go see a
doctor because of this incident?
A. No, not until I called Workman's Comp.
Q. When -- how much later was that?
A. I think it was a few months, because I just
figured I pulled a muscle and it would go away,
and then I kept working, and it wouldn't go
away, and I thought, well, it's because I keep
doing what I'm doing, and then I'd ran out of
my pain medicine, and I had done some things
and I was in severe pain, in bed crying for a
couple of days. So, then I just -- I don't go
without my pain medicine.
Q. What pain medicine were you on?
A. Lortabs, Somas and Xanax.
Q. These are narcotics?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Had she been experiencing these extreme fits of
pain, she would have said something to either
Cathryn or I. She never did. As for the drugs
she mentions, they are part and parcel of what
she resells to her retail drug customers – or
has up to the time we left the U.S.
Q. With your past history with the cocaine
problem, are you supposed to be on narcotics?
A. I don't worry about it. I mean, I don't even
take what they prescribe me to take.
She may not take what “they prescribe me to take,”
but she does buy them and resell them.
Q. Have you discussed those prior problems with
any of your healthcare providers?
Q. Now, you mentioned that you were at home, I
think, crying in bed?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. Did you miss work before you called Worker's
A. I don't think so.
Q. Do you remember who you spoke with at Worker's
A. Cindy Melancon.
Q. Before calling Worker's Comp, did you discuss
this with Katherine or Greg or anybody at
A. Almost every day, or at least every week.
Patently absurd. It didn’t happen. Other than the
usual litany about aches and pains that she
freely admitted was the result of prior
accidents, she didn’t complain about an
accident or make any attempt to contact our
Worker’s comp people. From the testimony she
provides here, she clearly indicates that at
any time prior, she could easily have gotten
ahold of Worker’s comp whenever she wanted to.
Q. Were they aware that you were going to be
calling Worker's Comp?
A. When the problem wasn't going away and I was
still having pain and tingling and sharp
shooting up and down, I told them. They told
me to call Workman's Comp.
Q. Did they give you the information of who to
Q. When you spoke to Cindy Melancon, what did you
talk to her about?
A. I told her that I'd hurt my back at work. It
was a few months ago. I figured it was a
pulled muscle; it'd go away, and it's not gone
away. It's not getting any better; so, I need
to see somebody.
Q. And what did she say?
A. She said okay.
Q. All right. Who did you see?
A. Well, that was -- I'd went to -- before I'd
called -- I think I called her, and then I'd
went to go see if I could get into the
emergency room before work, and they couldn't
see me because it had been previous; it wasn't
at the time just happened, and they couldn't
get a hold of Workman's Comp. So, I had asked
them, you know, do you know of a doctor I could
go see, and they referred -- they recommended
Dr. Noble, and I called Dr. Noble's office. I
think -- I believe I told Cindy I called Dr.
Noble's office. They didn't take Workman's
Comp cases; so, their office referred me to Dr.
Perry, who is in the same office with him.
Q. Now, the E.R. visit, that was St. Pat's?
Q. The one you talked to me about earlier?
Q. Did you see Dr. Perry?
Q. How many times have you seen Dr. Perry?
A. I've seen him either two or three times now. I
Q. Do you have a problem with Dr. Perry?
Q. What's the problem with Dr. Perry?
A. He doesn't listen.
Q. He did an M.R.I.?
Q. Have you discussed the results of the M.R.I.
A. He did an M.R.I., and he wanted to start me on
cortisone injection shots and I -- he wants to
do another M.R.I., and I told him, no, I'm not
doing the injections.
Q. Did you meet him -- with him on October 9th?
A. No, because I was supposed to have another
M.R.I. before that, but I'm waiting for you
guys or somebody to approve it. Open Air
called me today. They have me set for Tuesday
of next week, I believe it is, but that's if it
gets approved by you guys first.
Q. Has Dr. Perry told you why he needs another
A. He said because that's not the area I pointed
to when I went to see him. I said, "Yes, it
is. It's the same area I've been telling
everybody." It is right -- (indicating) the
center of it is right here. Well, he found
problems in my lumbar. He did a lumbar M.R.I.,
and where I hurt is up in the T -- the thoracic
area, they say, and so now he wants a thoracic
M.R.I. -- and if he would have listened to me,
in the first place.
Interestingly, even her own doctor indicates that
her comments about this injury are
inconsistent. Ask yourself, Dear Reader, no
matter how competent or incompetent a health
care practitioner – forget what kind – you have
been to in your lifetime, when is the last time
your doctor has said to you, “Wait a minute.
You told me your injury was in a completely
different place last time!”
Q. So, the second M.R.I. that we're talking about
is of the thoracic area?
A. Where -- yes, but it hasn't been done yet; and
when I tried telling him -- this last time I
saw him, when he wants me to do the thoracic
M.R.I.s, I tried telling him, "Look, I need --
you need to listen," and he just kept walking
straight out the door and said, "I'm just
ordering new tests."
Q. The cortisone injections that he talked to you
about, was he offering those in the lumbar
A. That's what I'm assuming. He wasn't specific;
so, I don't know. I assume that's the area
because that's what he had M.R.I.d and my
chiropractor, I let him look at my M.R.I.s, and
he said -- he pointed out -- he's worked with
Dr. Perry. Some of his patients, when Dr.
Perry does surgery, they want Dr. Duhon in
there during surgery. He had told me, you
know, "Have him look at T-11 and 12," because
he found two herniated disks there.
I believe these injuries are accurately stated.
However, I know them to be related to her
Q. Dr. Duhon?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. On you?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative). On the M.R.I. When I
took him my film from my M.R.I.s, I asked him
to look at them, please, and he made a little
note to please, you know -- to Dr. Perry to
please look at T-11 and 12.
Q. I'm confused. The lumbar M.R.I. went up into
the thoracic spine?
A. Yeah. Actually, it went -- you could see right
up to T-10, I think it -- he got right up to
where you could see 11 and 12, and they found -
- my chiropractor saw two herniated disks
Q. Now, then back in your automobile case where
you had the neck problems, did you have M.R.I.s
A. No. Just X-rays.
Q. All right. After this accident, you continued
working at Herbologics until when?
A. Until I was fired.
Q. When was that?
A. Wrongfully terminated.
I carefully heard both sides of this story: that of
Dana Dykstra, Lumen Foods’ owner, and Crystal
herself. There is no doubt in my mind that
Crystal was “feeling her oats” with the new
owner, attempting to see how much she could get
away with. The final stroke involved a visit
from the rabbi responsible for overseeing Lumen
Foods’ kosher certification – too childish to
elaborate here. Sufficient to say, Dana was
absent and Crystal delighted in doing the exact
opposite of what Dana had instructed her to do.
She quickly found out that Dana’s tolerance for
insubordination was much lower than that of
Cathryn or myself. She was promptly and
Q. Okay. When was that?
A. July 23rd, I want to say.
Q. This summer?
A. Uh-huh (affirmative). Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. You said, "wrongfully terminated."
Q. What do you mean by that?
A. Because I did nothing to be fired for.
Q. What did they tell you they were firing you
A. He told me I was fired for insubordination and
not following instructions, and I said, "Well,
what does -- what are you talking about," and
he said, "Well, the rabbi -- I shouldn't have
shown the rabbi a bag." Well, that happened on
Wednesday. Thursday I worked. Friday I
worked. Friday I hired people. Friday they
came and said, "You're the boss, Crystal; who
do you want to hire out of these two?" I hired
somebody. I worked Saturday. Monday morning I
went to work, and they said, "You're fired for
insubordination and not following
Q. Who fired you?
A. Dana Dykstra. He said he was told by the
corporation and partnerships. That's why Greg
and Katherine, if they're still the owners,
they did it because I called the F.D.A. on
Completely false. I didn’t find out about her
using the FDA as part of her revenge trip until
after being contacted by Tabetha LeDoux in
August. She came to Lumen Foods’ offices at
409 Scott St. – crying – saying that “the FDA
are at it again.” She told me that John Armand
had come to her, including the aforementioned
comments about not making payments to Kevin
Trudeau, and asking questions about my current
activities. Dana didn’t fire Crystal for any
other reason than insurbordination. That he
took several days before making a firm decision
is not uncommon. Few employers make swift
decisions in these matters – better to spend a
few days contemplating the consequences,
particularly if you are owner of a new business
and you’re still getting your feet wet.
Q. Okay. Per corporation and who else?
A. Yeah. He said, "Per corporation and
partnerships." Those were his exact words, and
I'm sitting here thinking he's crazy and he's
got multiple people in his head, because he's
the owner, and he's really not the owner, I
I myself don’t know what is meant by “per
corporation and partnerships.” I know of only
two entities that Dana had. One was for the
real estate he purchased from us; the other for
Lumen Foods as an operating company. I believe
he simply stated the termination in this
fashion so as to avoid a more contentious
confrontation during the termination process.
Q. All right, and you said you think this is
because you called the F.D.A. on the Catons?
A. Well, at first I thought it was because
physically I'm not going -- I wasn't going to
be able to continue doing what I was doing in
the back, which wasn't what I was hired for,
but I did it. At first I thought it was that
because a week and a half later I was just
starting my rehabilitation, and I honestly felt
it was either because of that or if Catons are
still the owners, then it was because I called
the F.D.A. on them and they found out.
Q. When did you call the F.D.A. on them?
A. In June.
Q. Who did you speak with at the F.D.A.?
A. John Armand.
In retrospect, we realize that she called the FDA
in an act of revenge, but also because we were
pressing the issue on the $12,000 in checks she
wrote to herself (as bookkeeper, she had
signatory rights on our bank account while I
was in prison). Her thinking was simple:
working with the FDA to avoid a legitimate debt
worked for George Ackerson and the $48,000 he
stole from Lumen Foods. Why not borrow a page
from his play book?
Q. How do you spell Armand?
A. A-r-m-o-n-d -- or a-n-d.
Q. What office is he out of?
A. He is out of the Baton Rouge, I believe.
Q. What did you report the Catons for?
A. Or Lafayette. Greg is on parole for the
introducing an unimproved drug, and he got out
and is making it again and shipping it, and he
was making it in the building with our meat
company, putting the meat company in jeopardy.
This is absolutely false, and Crystal knows it.
Neither Cathryn nor I collected so much as a
single penny from the sale of an herbal product
from the time I was arrested on September 17,
2003 to this present moment. Nor did we sell
any H3O. We did make samples of product for
Natura Scio (www.naturascio.com) that we
shipped to New Delhi, India, where we had a
prospective customer. Even with our rust
remover/inhibitor, we never had a sale – as if
that’s even relevant, since the FDA has no
jurisdiction over industrial solvents. The
sale of herbal products will change, of course,
when Alpha Omega Labs reopens in Guayaquil in
2008, but this involves no sales to the U.S. –
so the point is mute. As for putting “the meat
company in jeopardy” (she is preferring to
Lumen Foods) that is nonsense. We did
everything in full view and with the consent of
the new owner (Dana Dykstra). Crystal here
suggests that we were jeopardizing the company
in Dana’s presence, with his knowledge and
consent. That’s just nonsense.
Q. Okay. You're going to have to take me through
this a little bit slower. Greg was doing the
same two things he had been arrested for?
Q. And how is he using Herbologics for that?
A. He was using the space, making it in the same
Q. He was using y'all's hoppers?
A. No. He didn't use any of that. He was just in
the building. First he was like in the
shipping area, and then Zoe kicked him out of
the shipping area, and he went to the print
shop, and he wasn't really using any of the
Luman stuff. He was just using the space and
putting the company in jeopardy of the F.D.A.
coming back again.
Again . . . it’s just nonsense. Sample product
of our rust inhibitor was made both in the
shipping and printing areas – but nothing that
was herbal and nothing that would fall under
FDA jurisdiction. The important issue is that
even IF we had done something that jeopardized
Lumen Foods, why would she care? This is the
company she stole $12,000 from – a company
whose facilities she and friends used to smoke
pot while I was on probation. She regularly
did things that did far more to jeopardize the
company than I ever did. In the end, these
acts of jeopardizing the company resulted in
two very different end results: (1) She got
fired; (2) Cathryn and I sold the company for
$460,000 and successfully got out of the
Q. How do you know he was doing this?
A. I seen him. I saw him. He -- all of us seen
him, and he made it and passed it out.
It’s a completely perjurious statement. There
would be no need to “pass out” an industrial
solvent to my employees. It never happened.
I’d like to see her produce samples of anything
I made experimentally between March 13, 2006,
when I got out of prison, to the day I left the
States – September 1, 2007. She’d need John
Armand’s assistance to make fake product and
create a completely set of false statements.
In this, I have no doubt John Armand would be
quite accommodating. Meditopia was written, in
part, to show that this is the hell into which
law enforcement in the U.S. has descended.
Q. What's the operation of making it? I mean,
A. You just mix herbs together. Well, the H3O, I
don't know. The Cansema salve, you just mix
some herbs and make it a paste and zinc and
this and that, and I don't -- I never mixed it.
There are no herbs involved in making any of the
industrial solvents I made. It’s just
nonsense. As for Cansema – again, we never
made Cansema while I was in the U.S., post-
2003. She’s lying – and you can tell she’s
lying. But at the time of this deposition,
she’s already – in the rage of her revenge
because she “thinks” I had Dana fire her –
called the FDA and made a cavalcade of false
statements. She has to attempt to be
Q. So, how do you know he was making the
A. Because we'd seen him make it before, and it
was the same thing he was doing before. We
knew what it was. We're not stupid.
No, she’s not stupid. She’s just lying. Pure and
Q. Did you ever go to Dana Dykstra with those
A. Dana knew, yes.
Q. But did you go to him and say, "Dana, Greg is
violating his parole in our building. We need
to do something"?
A. No. Dana -- when we brought up problems with
Katherine or Greg, what they were doing, he
would just say, "Well, they'll be gone soon.
They'll be gone soon." And then he informed
them -- he was the one to inform them about me
calling the F.D.A.
That’s just nonsense. Dana would not have allowed
us to conduct any illegal activities on what
would have then been his property. At the
least, our relationship was quite cordial. Had
Dana suspected anything improper, he would have
taken me aside and said – at the very least:
“Do you think you should be doing something
like this on my property?” Any person with any
intelligence would do this. What Dana was
doing – and a sensible person can see this –
was putting Crystal off, because he knew she
was on a revenge trip and he obviously didn’t
want to be bothered or be pulled into the
Q. If Dana knew about it, why did you take it upon
yourself to call the F.D.A.?
A. Because John -- because Greg and Katherine have
made -- we have sat down in a business meeting
at the conference table, before the sale of the
company, and they had told -- I was at 15 an
hour. When things slowed down, they laid me
off in August. I came back in December. They
asked me to come back at 13, and they said,
"You won't have to be doing physically what you
were doing before," because I was starting to
hurt, and I said, "Okay." So, I went back to
I ended up having to physically do the same
things I was doing before. They promised that
before the sale of the company they would move
me back to 15 an hour, where I was at, and that
they would have the key employees job
guaranteed for a year, unless they actually,
you know, did something that would be
wrongfully -- you know, that they could be
terminated for. He said he would guarantee us
key peoples our job and raise my pay back up,
and they never did and said, "Oh, I'm sorry,"
and so then I said, "Okay, John. Hi. I'm
Q. And you're talking about that's why you
reported them to John Armand?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. Did you ever go back to Greg or Katherine and
say, "Hey, when you all talked about selling
the company, you promised to get me back up to
$15 an hour"?
Q. What did they say to that?
A. "I'm sorry. I forgot."
Q. Did they say that they would try to do it or
that they were just --
A. They said they would try to talk to Dana, which
went nowhere. Whether they did or didn't, I
don't know. He knew, though, because he heard
me bitch at him.
This is the most amazing part of the entire
deposition, because – at its heart – it reveals
Crystal’s hidden motives. The problem is there
is an entire run of statements that is totally
and completely false. The statements above –
taken as a whole – could not be more
fabricated. These are not small embellishments
or twisting of the facts. They are
breathtakingly off the mark.
Firstly . . . as stated previously, Crystal
Leslie worked for Lumen Foods from 2002 until
she quit the company to seek out greener
pastures in the summer of 2006. She left and
came back to Lake Charles the following winter
(December / January). Thirty days prior to
leaving Lumen Foods – in mid-July, 2006,
Crystal made a power play that resulted in a
private meeting that took place at my office at
2120 Hodges Street. Present at that meeting
were myself, Crystal, and Zoe Farris. The
purpose of the meeting was to demand raises.
Not ask for them. Demand them. At that time,
Crystal was making $13 per hour. I won’t
disclose Zoe’s because it is irrelevant to the
current discussion. Crystal stated she was
worth $15 per hour and expected to be paid
that. I could have put my foot down and said,
“No, you’re being paid enough now – if that is
not sufficient, perhaps our working
relationship should be revisited.” However, my
internal dialogue was going something like
this: “Look . . . this person is leaving in
30 days. Two times 40 equals $80. There are
slightly more than 4 weeks in a month. I can
go to war with this person, or pay an
additional $350 and bring the end of this
relationship to a peaceful close.” I decided
to go with the latter.
In December, 2006, Crystal Leslie returned to Lake
Charles. She asked for her job back. I said
we would have to think about it. I was not
anxious to have her back, because of the drug
issues, the growing exercise of acts that were
clearly insubordinate, and because I was
resentful that she had, for all intents and
purposes, stolen $12,000 from the main Lumen
Foods account while I was in prison. A week or
two passed. Concurrent with this was the fact
that I was in the process of selling Lumen
Foods. I had three excellent candidates, of
which one was Dana Dykstra. A major concern I
had was could I demonstrate that I was leaving
the company in capable hands – after all, if
someone purchased Lumen Foods, they would also
be inheriting, initially, the staff I then had
on hand. Since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita
devastated our area in September, 2005, hiring
help became extremely difficult in the coastal
areas along the gulf where the hurricane hit:
from Buloxi, Mississippi, to Port Arthur,
Texas. Few employers had the luxury of being
choosy, and one of my vendor reps actually told
me that he had a customer in Buloxi that moved
his entire operation 120 miles inland because
he had such a difficult time hiring new
employees. In the end rehiring Crystal was
reflective of this economic reality: the labor
pool was greatly diminished. We agreed to
rehire Crystal with one important proviso: she
would be rehired at $13 an hour (which, in my
mind, was quite high, given her worsening
performance . . . the frequent breaks . . . her
tendency to align employees and attempt to act
as if she was the Union Representative for the
few employees we had (at that time, eight),
etc. She agreed. We didn’t make her agree.
She could have said no. But she agreed to work
at $13 an hour. She states I promised to bump
her up to $15, as I had done the previous
August, when she made her power move. I had
not. Furthermore, I never promised her that
the new owner was going to have to sign
employment contracts. How could I possibly do
that? What prospective buyer would agree to
such a thing? Her assertion is ridiculous. I
never made such a representation or anything
close to it.
Secondly, her comments demonstrate the absurdity of
the position that she was calling the FDA
because she was concerned about Lumen Foods.
She makes it clear to anyone who can read
English, that she’s on a revenge trip. If she
has to lie, no problem. Perjury? No problem.
Creating a complete fabricated story? No
problem. Harming Lumen Foods in the process?
No problem. Without realizing it, in this
section, the lipstick, to borrow an old
expression, comes off the pig, and the atrocity
is seen for what it is.
Q. Now, did Dana Dykstra know that you had called
the F.D.A. on Greg when you were let go?
Q. How did he know that?
A. Because I did it from the office in front of
Q. He heard you on the phone?
A. Yes. Well, actually, I was in the warehouse,
and he came back, and he said, "You're not
calling on them from here, are you?" I said,
"Yes." He said, "I don't want them to know."
I said, "Don't worry. If they come back here,
I'll be quiet."
This is a very dubious claim. I’ve asked Dana
about this and he has denied it ever happened.
Q. In what room were you in?
A. In the warehouse shipping area.
Q. Was he angry with you that you were doing it?
A. No. He was more concerned that Greg and
Katherine would walk back there and hear me and
it would cause a ruckus up there. He just
didn't want Greg and Katherine to know what I
was doing, he said.
Q. Were Greg and Katherine still using the
Herbologic building at the time?
Q. To your knowledge, has Greg or Katherine found
out that you called the F.D.A.?
Q. How did they find out?
A. Dana Dykstra.
Within less than 30 seconds of each other, Crystal
has testified that Dana said he didn’t want us
to know she was talking to the FDA, and now she
says that we learned this directly from Dana
Dykstra himself. Which is it?
Q. How do you know Dana told them?
A. When I did it, the only ones who knew I was
calling was Tabby, Zoe, Dana, myself, Mike and
Sabrina. We found out Dana told them when
Tabitha was taken down to the office, after she
was terminated. She was taken down to the
office by John Armand and asked to get into the
computer to get -- pull up some things that she
knew about, and all the sudden, all the
passwords had been changed and she couldn't get
into anything and stuff had disappeared from
the computers. So, then that's we found out
that Dana had told Greg and Katherine, and then
just recently Greg and Katherine had been
crying to Zoe that they can't believe I did
this, that I called the F.D.A. on them. So,
that's how I know they knew. They haven't said
it to me, and I haven't said anything to them.
I've tried to get check stubs from them,
because to file for unemployment, and they
don't want to give them to me. So, I can't
even file for unemployment right now because I
don't have copies of my check stubs. They said
their attorney will get them to me. I asked
them for their attorney's number, and they
won't -- name. They won't give me that
The material here – again – is patently absurd.
By the time all this happened, Lumen Foods was
no longer my company. I had sold it – five
months prior to all of this happening. I had
no right to change passwords on any of Dana’s
computers, let alone deliberately delete
material from what were now HIS computers, not
mine. I would not, for a moment, have thought
to do so.
The second, and much larger issue, is that
Crystal is inadvertently admitting to
Unemployment Insurance fraud. We didn’t give
her those check stubs deliberately. After all,
if we provide material to an ex-employee to get
insurance payments under completely fraudulent
terms, how are we not equally liable? She
wasn’t let go in August, 2006. She quit. Pure
and simple. She wanted to go to California and
start a new life. We were happy for her. (Very
happy!) When you quit your job, you’re not
entitled to unemployment insurance.
Unemployment compensation exists for people who
are laid off or are fired. More times than
not, it’s not their fault. They didn’t ask to
lose their job. The employee has a family
(more times than not); bills to pay; mouths to
feed. Unemployment compensation exists to help
everyday with this unanticipated loss of
income. It doesn’t exist for people like
Crystal Leslie, who are adepts at scamming the
Q. Wait. You need wage records?
Q. For what?
A. For unemployment, because the quarterly
reports, after I left, were done wrong -- well,
they were done -- Ms. Katherine did the last
two quarters before I left so she could refresh
her memory with the quarterly reports of
payroll. Well, when I tried to file
unemployment, they said in May and June of '06
it shows that I only made $800. I said, "The
hell I did. I worked 40 hours a week May and
June of '06." So, I know it's more than $800
for two months. So, they said send copies of
your check stubs. Well, I couldn't find those,
between me moving from California and back and
forth, I got stuff stored in California and
stuff stored here, and I can't find them.
Cathryn and I looked into this seriously before we
left for Ecuador. The charge is a serious one.
What Crystal is saying is that we deliberately,
falsely, and deceptively altered the payroll
records. After reviewing the records, we
realized that what we filed with the state of
Louisiana was, indeed, correct. Crystal –
perhaps on account of her drug habit – had
forgotten that in the weeks just prior to
quitting Lumen Foods, she had dropped back to
working part-time. She didn’t work 40 hours a
week in May and June. The fact is, we used
Peachtree Software – the same we had used for
years – to do payroll just as we always had.
For most of the period 2002 to 2007, Crystal
did the books, but she did not do payroll.
Cathryn did. Inherent in this is yet another
contradiction: she repeatedly makes Cathryn
look like an ignorant side-liner, but when it
suits her she implies, as she does here, that
Cathryn was mismanaging the company. Which one
My belief is that Crystal’s drug habit got to the
point where she was desperate for money. She
repeatedly and frequently “ragged” on Ernie for
his incessant pilfering of the family’s
finances to support his “meth habit.” Those
are Crystal’s words to me. Not mine. I have
come to believe – although I will, most likely
never have hard evidence . . . only
circumstantial proof, that Crystal was
financially compensated, or PROMISED financial
compensation, by the same task master FDA
Agent, John Armand, was working for (Kevin
Trudeau) that if I could be re-imprisoned, she
would get funded.
Q. When did you file for unemployment?
A. I tried to file right after I was fired in
August, and that's when they told me that they
needed the check stubs. I requested them.
I've request them from Greg, Katherine and Dana
Dykstra, to see if he could get them for me,
and nobody wants to supply them for me.
That’s correct. We didn’t supply them. First, for
the reason we give above: not wanting to be
involved in unemployment insurance fraud, but
secondly, because our attorney, at that point,
was advising us that since she was an
adversarial party, we were not required to hand
over documents to her at her request.
Q. The wage records you need are for what months?
A. For June of '06 and August -- the last paycheck
I received, which would have been in July or
August of '06.
Q. '06 or '07?
A. '06. That was when they laid me off for a few
months, and I collected unemployment then.
She wasn’t laid off. She quit her job and moved to
California. She admits here that during this
period she was illegally collecting
unemployment compensation. I asked Cathryn
about this – “Did you object to her filing for
employment?” Her reply was swift, “No . . .
after what we went through, I was happy to see
Are you trying to get unemployment from
August of '06?
They told me that's the time period.
If I file now, that's the time period they
go back to. So, that's just what they --
The year before you were --
Yeah. That's just what the
unemployment office told me.
I see. Okay.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. But you filed for unemployment in August of
Q. All right.
A. And August of last year.
Q. All right. Did you actually physically go down
to the unemployment office in August of '06 and
make an application?
A. I did it over the phone.
Q. Okay, but that was done in August of '06, and
then you redid it in August of '07?
A. Yes. I went to reopen it in '07, and they need
the wage -- my paycheck stubs, which I don't
Strangely, she’s filing to collect unemployment
conpensation for the same span of time. Twice.
Q. You don't have them for '07 or '06?
A. I have some of them but not the two they're
Q. And that's June of '06 and August of '06?
Q. So, you have them in '07 that you need?
A. Yes. Oh, yes.
Q. Now, you said you were laid off in June of '06.
When were you rehired?
A. I was laid off in August of '06.
Once again – a complete lie. All employees of
Lumen Foods at that time would know this
because we held a Farewell Party for Crystal in
late July, 2006, before she left. Everyone
knew that Crystal had quit to move to
California. The party was held at the
conference room at 2120 Hodges Street. We
watched a movie on DVD at the end of the
festivities (“V for Vendetta”).
Q. Okay. So, you were laid off in June, rehired,
laid off again?
A. No. I was laid off in August of '06 and came
back to work in December of '06, and that is
the only time I was laid off.
Give her credit for lying consistently.
Q. Okay, so --
A. And I collected unemployment during that time I
was off of work. Actually, they didn't get it
to me until December, because they were screwed
up with the paperwork.
With “they,” she must be referring to the
Q. So, the first unemployment filing was from
August of '06 to December of '06, and you got
Q. And now you have a new claim for August of '07
A. Well, that's when I filed it was August '07,
Q. Going back to when you were fired in June or
Q. Okay. And they need wage records before they
can process that?
Doug, I believe she said she was -- her
last day was July 23rd, '07.
Yeah, I think so.
Not June or July. I believe that's --
Yeah. I wasn't sure of the dates.
Yeah. July. Right before my birthday.
If it's August, then that's, you know,
right around the corner from the end of
July. That's all.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. When's the last time you spoke with Katherine
A. Oh, about a week ago, I guess. I request -- I
heard she was in town. I called the cell
phone. She's now trying to say I embezzled
money from her company. So, we -- we're going
to go through that, I guess.
Cathryn made a lone trip back to Lake Charles in
early October. I stayed home in Ecuador with
our son. Cathryn DOES say that Crystal Leslie
“embezzled” money from Lumen Foods, because it
fits the definition from Webster’s Dictionary.
Fact: she was a signator on the account, she
wrote out checks to herself without consulting
Cathryn, and after getting caught promised she
would effect a program for paying the company
back. Crystal’s position in the matter is just
ludicrous: that Cathryn voluntarily just LENT
$12,000 to Crystal while I was in prison. Since
when do small business people just off and LEND
sums that large to hourly employees? Crystal
took advance of my wife at the most vulnerable
time of our life. This is something I still
Q. Did you talk to her?
Q. And what did y'all talk about?
A. I asked -- I just asked her for the wage
records, and she said, "My attorney has all the
papers because we think you mishandled our
funds." I said, "Excuse me." And she said
that she will have her attorney contact me. I
said, "Katherine, I believe there's a certain
amount of time you have to supply me with this
information." She said she didn't care, and
she hung up on me.
Cathryn didn’t hang up on Crystal. She just
stopped taking her calls.
Q. Has she ever identified who her attorney is?
A. No. She wouldn't, and then I called back and I
left a message on her voice mail to "Please
call me; let me know who the attorney is; I
will take care of it myself," and, of course,
she hasn't. I said, "I don't have to deal with
you. I can deal with your attorney."
One of our attorneys in Lake Charles (we’ve had
several – this is one instance where I prefer
to without his name) specifically advised us
not to supply Crystal with documents.
Q. When's the last time you talked to Greg Caton?
A. Oh, before I was fired, or right shortly after
I was fired. The same week I was fired.
Q. What was that conversation about?
A. He says, "You got a raw deal. I'm sorry."
Again, this is revisionism. She told me that she
had been fired and felt she was the victim of
wrongful termination – just as she testifies
above. I advised her that if she really felt
she had been wrongfully terminated, she should
see an attorney. (I knew that no attorney
would take this case – it’s ridiculous – and to
the best of knowledge, to this day, none have.)
Q. Now, do you have another appointment with Dr.
A. At this time, no. I did yesterday. I'm going
to have to reschedule whenever they do the
Q. I'm sorry. You said the M.R.I. is set for
A. It's not set. We're waiting on you guys to
It's set for Tuesday, pending approval.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Pending approval.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Yeah. Next Tuesday.
That's all right. Don't worry. I'll
argue enough when the time comes. Just
answer him directly.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Now, then since you were fired from Herbologics
in July of this year, have you returned to work
Q. Have you applied for jobs any place?
A. I went to apply. Because I knew I was doing
the rehabilitation, I didn't know how long it
was going to go; so, I figured I'd go and look
for a part-time job, and when I went to the
Bingo Palace -- because I have friends that
work up there -- they told me they couldn't
hire me or even let me do an application until
I had a release from a doctor because of the
Workman's Comp. So, then I didn't look for
work after that because nobody will hire me
while I'm under Workman's Comp right now.
If there is any hesitancy on the part of
prospective employers, it is only because no
one wants to hire a habitual litigant – even
after the doctor signs off on the release. Who
can blame employers for not wanting to take on
employees who have a history that makes them a
high risk? What makes this comment nonsensical
is that it is coming from someone actively
involved in insurance fraud and drug dealing –
neither one of which is legal. Yes, she’s been
quite lucky. No arrest to date. But my point
is that someone involved in these activities
would have no problem NOT DISCLOSING during the
interview process that she is on worker’s comp.
This is small lie compared with trying to
collect unemployment compensation for a job
where you quit and were not laid off.
Q. When did Dr. Perry hold you off of work?
A. The last appointment I had -- I don't remember
what date it was -- I had asked him if he would
release me to go back to work light duty and
part time maybe, and he just said, "No." He
said he wanted to do more tests.
Q. This would have been on September 25th?
Q. Does that sound about right?
Doug, I faxed the "No Work" slip. Did
you get it?
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Was that the first time he held you off of
work, to your knowledge?
A. Yes. I didn't know I couldn't work while I was
doing Workman's Comp until I went to look for a
job, and then that's when they said ask your
doctor for a release. Well, the next time I
went to see him, I did ask for a release, and
he said, "No."
Q. I'm looking at, I think, Dr. Perry's first
report of July 17th. Would that be the first
time you saw him?
Q. And he says that you were on Lorcet, Xanax,
Soma and Excedrin Migraine.
A. When I have migraines, yes.
Q. Who was giving you those meds?
A. Care Pro.
Q. How long have you been getting those meds?
A. Since May of '06.
Now remember . . . she says here that she’s been
getting these meds since May, 2006. Earlier in
this sworn deposition she indicated that she
really didn’t take them (see p. 38). Once
again, here’s what’s unspoken: she’s selling
the meds on the side. It’s an active, ongoing
Q. That's because of the motor vehicle accident?
A. I figured it was -- my neck feels heavy and
hurts. My arms were bothering me. I went for
that, over the period my back would bother me.
Some days, you know, my back would bother me,
and some day it wouldn't, but the majority of
it started for my neck and shoulder area from
the drunk driving accident was what I went for.
Q. At the present time, do you have an appointment
to see any doctor as far as this claim that I'm
here for, other than the M.R.I. scheduled for
Q. Have you seen any other healthcare providers,
other than trying to go to St. Pat's Hospital,
Dr. Perry or the physical therapy people that
Dr. Perry sent you to?
A. For this problem, no.
Q. Are you presently having any other medical
problems, other than the motor vehicle accident
and neck problems that we talked about?
A. Financial stress.
Q. Well, have you seen anybody for that?
A. No. No.
. . . which led her to work with the FDA, quite
possibly because Kevin Trudeau agreed to fund
this activity. As state in Chapter 3 of
Meditopia, a “defector” from the Trudeau camp
told me that he was willing to pay “bonuses” to
people who would be successful in re-
imprisoning me (i.e. get my probation revoked).
Q. What are you doing for income at the present
A. My fiancé, and I receive child support.
Q. How much child support do you get?
A. 700 a month.
Q. That's from Mr. Deshotel?
Q. I'm looking at your claim that you filed.
You should say her attorney filed. I
did the best I can. So, I oftentimes amend
these things, you know, Doug.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. It says that you want to see Dr. Gunderson.
Why Dr. Gunderson?
A. I know a couple of people who have seen Dr.
Gunderson, and it's the only name I know. All
I know is I want to -- I was going to go see
Dr. Noble, and Dr. Perry doesn't listen, and I
don't feel we can communicate to get my problem
solved. He doesn't want to listen.
Q. Since you were fired at Herbologics, have you
talked to Dana Dykstra?
Q. When's the last time you talked to Dana?
A. About two and a half weeks ago, three maybe.
Q. Okay. How did that contact come into being?
A. I called him to request that him, as the new
owner, I was informed by John with the F.D.A.
that he should have records turned over to him
to keep for so many years and can't he get me a
copy of my check stubs. He again told me, "I'm
not the new owner. I'm just the president. I
own the building. I do talk to Greg and
Katherine, and I will see if I can get those
for you." And then I never heard from him
I have to wonder how often a criminal investigator
with the FDA intervenes to assist someone in
collecting on a fraudulent unemployment
compensation claim. Given the inherent fraud
underlying the Sue Gilliatt matter – which
resulted in an $800,000 payout, I suppose this
is a minor issue . . .
Q. At the present time, what pharmacies are you
A. Just the Care Pro pharmacy right next door to
it. That's the only pharmacy.
Q. They own the pharmacy also?
A. I don't know if they own it. It's just right
Q. Do you know the name of it? Is it Care Pro or
is it --
A. No. It's Pharmaco De Pablo or something like
that, some Mexican --
Q. What street is that on?
A. West Belfort.
Q. West who?
A. Belfort, B-e-l-f-o-r-t.
Q. That's in Sulphur?
A. No. That's in Houston.
Over half of our employees at Lumen Foods knew that
Crystal was purchasing pain medicine in Houston
and reselling it on the street in Lake Charles.
It became a destabilizing influence at Lumen
Foods prior to my selling the company.
Q. You're going to Care Pro in Houston?
A. Yes. It's cheaper. It's only $145 for the
visit and my medicine. Out here it's three to
400 just for the visit and the medicine, and I
can't afford that.
Q. Who referred you to Care Pro?
A. Actually, a friend of mine told me about them.
Q. Do you have any meetings scheduled with John
Armand with F.D.A.?
A. I did today. I have a subpoena for the 25th of
October, I believe it is. October or November.
I'll have to look at my subpoena.
Q. Where are you subpoenaed?
A. To Lafayette.
This was my scheduled probation relief hearing,
filed by my Lafayette attorney, Lawrence
Billeau. John Armand was quite proud of the
fact that he managed to turn a probation relief
hearing into a probation revocation hearing.
Thanks to Tabby and Crystal, I knew better than
to return to the United States.
Q. That's November 25th, you said?
A. Either October or November. I'm going to have
to actually look -- I think it's November. It
may be this month, though.
Q. What is that in relation to?
A. The F.D.A. case against Greg Caton.
Q. What was your meeting with him today about?
A. We had to meet with Rick Willis, the -- I guess
whoever he is up there.
Q. He's with the F.D.A.?
A. No. He's in the federal building here in Lake
Charles, criminal division.
Q. What was the meeting about?
A. Information, going over information he needed
from three employees -- us three employees that
She’s just revealed to me – wittingly or
unwittingly, the gruesome details of their
entire ambush game plan. I would never have
known this had not Crystal herein alerted me.
Q. Who else met?
A. Tabitha Ledoux and Zoe Farris, Zonola, John
Armand and Rick Willis.
Q. And Tabitha Ledoux worked at Herbologics?
Q. Does Tabatha still work there?
Q. Does Zoey still work there?
Q. Are you aware of anybody else that's subpoenaed
for this meeting in Lafayette?
Am I supposed to be talking about this?
What's that? Oh, well, just answer
him. He already knows everything anyway.
He's just seeing how you'll -- he's trying
to see if you'll be honest and react
properly; so, just be open with him and
answer him. Thank you.
Yes, Crystal – please – just keep talking.
Thank you !! (The ends my commentary).
Let me check my notes.
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. Now, then Care Pro, do you know -- do you have
A. I don't think -- I have their phone number.
Q. Okay. Can you give me that, please?
A. (713) 77 -- whoops -- 716 -- wait. (713) 771-
Q. That's in Houston also?
A. Yes. That's the Care Pro.
Q. Do you know what road they're on?
A. West Belfort.
Q. They're on the same road?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there anything you want to tell me that I
haven't asked you about?
A. Well, I have a question. No. I think that's
about it. If I think of something, I'll let
Why don't you let your attorney know
I may -- let me --
Okay. All right, Doug. I'm ready.
I've got a couple of questions. I'll be
(MR. HUNTER CONTINUES:)
Q. What's a normal day like for you?
A. Mornings, I wake up sore and achy.
Q. How do your kids get to school?
A. The bus.
Q. Do you get them up, feed them breakfast?
A. Yes. I get up with them. I get up every
morning about 5:30, 6:00. I usually stay awake
most of the days. Really bad days, I'll take a
nap. Some days, I'll lay in bed. Some days, I
Q. Do you cook supper?
Q. Do you clean your house?
Q. Do you drive a vehicle?
Q. What kind of vehicle do you have?
A. A Chrysler Town and Country.
Q. What color?
Q. Is the car in your name?
Q. What's the longest you've driven since you quit
working in July of this year?
A. The longest I've driven? To Texas.
Q. And you go there once a month?
A. I try to. I'm past due. I haven't -- I'm
going on two months past due, because my van
isn't running correctly and I don't have a ride
to go see my doctor out there.
Q. Who does the yard work around the house?
A. The kids, Ernie.
Q. I'm sorry. Children and who?
A. And Ernie.
Q. Do you have a garden to keep up with, the
flower beds or anything?
A. Not yet. I plan to. I'd like to have a
Q. Are your kids involved in sports or school
A. School activities.
Q. Do you participate in the school activities?
A. I go to things that I need to go to.
Q. What kind of activities are they involved in?
A. Just right now they're just starting -- one is
starting 4-H, and the others are starting BETA
and library club, just little things.
Q. What school do they go to?
A. J.I. Watson Middle School and Lebleu Elementary
Q. Do you have any hobbies?
A. Bingo. Out here, that's the only thing I can
do. Other than that, I love swimming,
horseback riding. I don't do much of that out
here. Swimming, I won't get in the water.
Q. Do you do any activities like tennis or
A. No. Softball. Family functions, we play
That's all the questions I have for
you, ma'am. Thank you very much.
I just have a couple.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:
Q. Going back to Dr. Perry, the first time you saw
him was July 17th, '07, right?
Q. I just note here for the record it said,
"Impression: Thoracic pain."
A. Uh-huh (affirmative).
Q. Does that sound about right?
Q. Now, also he lists the medications that you're
on. Is that the same medication that you get
from the Care Pro?
A. Yes. That's --
Q. It's the same thing. So, you told Dr. Perry
about the medication you were on?
Q. Has he told you not to take this anymore --
Q. -- or did he advise against it?
Q. He hasn't said anything yet about it --
Q. -- one way or the other?
All right. I have nothing further.
Read and sign? Y'all waive it?
We'll waive that.
(DEPOSITION CONCLUDED AT APPROXIMATELY 3:52 P.M.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
This certification is valid only for a
transcript accompanied by my signature and blue
official seal on this page.
I, Renee Parsley, Certificate No. 92082,
Certified Court Reporter in good standing with the
State of Louisiana, as the officer before whom this
proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that
CRYSTAL LESLIE, after having been duly sworn by me
upon authority of R.S. 37:2554, did testify as
hereinbefore set forth in the foregoing 86 pages;
that this testimony was reported by me in the voice
reporting method, was prepared and transcribed by
me or under my personal direction and supervision,
and is a true and correct transcript to the best of
my ability and understanding; that I am not related
to counsel or to the parties herein, nor am I
otherwise interested in the outcome of this matter.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto affixed my
seal and signature in Lake Charles, Louisiana on
October 21, 2007.
RENEE PARSLEY, CCR, CVR
Certificate No. 9208