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1 SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF NE W YORK
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3 T HE FOLLO WI NG IS REGARDING TH E FOLLOWING :
4 I N RE : EARLY & STRAUSS , LLC ,
MAY 2004 IN EXTREM IS TRIAL CLUSTER CASES
5 VIDEO
DEPOSITION
6 UND E R ORAL
EXAM INATION
7 OF
RICHARD BARAKO
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PRIORITY - ONE COURT REPORTING SERVICES , INC .
22 899 Manor Road
Staten Island , New York 10314
23 (718) 761 - 0527
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Priority - One Court Reporting Services , Inc .
# 03230 5 -000036
D EPO SITIO N
., FILE COPY
vLoa Exh _ . txt/ .tif _CD D i sk YjMG
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1 Transcript of the video - taped deposition
2 of RICHARD BARAKO , c alled fo r O r al E x amina t io n
3 in the above-captioned matter , said deposition
4 being taken pursuant to Federal Rules of Civil
5 Procedure by and before Kimberly S . Plummer ,
6 Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
7 State of New Yor k ; taken at the H oliday Inn ,
8 T i gue Street , Dunm ore , Pen n sylvania on
9 Wednesday , September 29, 2004 , commencing at
10 approximately 3 : 00 in the afternoon .
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Priority - One Court Reporting Services , Inc .
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1 A P P E A R A R A N C E S:
2 LIPSITZ , PONT E RIO , LLC
135 Dela w are Avenue , Suite 210
3 Buffalo , New York 1 4 202
BY : JOHN COMERFO R D , ESQ .
4 Attorneys for Plaintiffs
5 EA RLY & STRAUSS , LLP
360 Lexington Avenue
6 20th Floor
N ew York , Ne w York 10017
7 BY : MARK STRAUSS , ESQ .
Attorneys for Plaintiffs in 2004
8 In E x t r emis T r ial Cluster Ca s es
9 L E STER , SCHWAB , KATZ & DWYER , LLP
120 Broadway
10 New York , New Yor k 10271 - 0071
BY : LIZ MANDARANO , ESQ .
11 Atto r neys for Defendant , United Gilsonite Laboratorie s
12 WI L BRAHAM, LAWLER & BUBA
1818 Market Street , Suite 3100
13 Philadelphia , Pennsylvania 19103-3631
BY : FLOYD W . COTLAR , ESQ .
14 Attorneys for Defendant , United Gilsonite Laboratories ,
National Counsel
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WIL BRAHAM , LAWLER & BUBA
16 1818 Market Street , Suite 3100
Philadelphia , Pennsylvania 19103 - 3631
17 BY : MICHAEL HINKLE , ESQ .
Attorneys fo r Defendant , DANA
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CULLEN and DYKMAN , BLEAKLEY , PLATT , LLP
19 177 Montague Street
Brooklyn , Ne w York 11201
20 BY : CAMILLE D . BARNETT , ESQ .
Attorneys for Defendant , Mario DiBono
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1 A P P E A R A N C E S : (Continued)
2 L ' ABBAT E, B A LKAN , COL AV I TA & CONTINI , LL P
1050 Franklin Avenue
3 Garden City , New York 11530
BY : KATHLEEN REGAN , ESQ .
4 Attorneys for Defendant , Bondex
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6 APPEARING TELEPHONICALLY :
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8 F LEMMING , Z ULAC K & W ILLIAMSON , ESQS .
One Liberty Plaza
9 35th Floor
New York , Ne w York 10006 - 1404
10 BY : SCOTT EMERY , ESQ .
Attorneys for Defendant , Crown , Cork & Seal
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1 I N D E X T O W I T N E S S
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3 Witness Name Page No .
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5 RICHARD BARAKO
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7 Direct Examination By Mr . Comerford 7
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R E Q U E S T S
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Formula card 58
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1 MR . COTLAR : Mr . Strauss , before we begin ,
2 I ' m National counsel for UGL . I ' m Floyd
3 Cotlar . Just wanted noted for the record that
4 Mr . Barako is a witness chosen by your office .
5 He ' s not here as a corporate designee . W hile
6 he certainly can testify to his own
7 observations , his testimony does not bind or
8 establish policy for the company .
9 VID E OGRAP HE R : The t i me is 2 : 5 4 : 0 4 . M y
10 name is Steve Cullen , I work for Certified
11 Video Productions , 132 Franklin Corner Road,
12 Lawrenceville , Ne w Jersey .
13 Swear the witness .
14 (Continued on Page 7 . )
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Pr i o r ity - One Court Reporting Se r vices , Inc .
1 R I C H A R D B A R A K 0,
2 called as a witness,
3 having been first duly sworn
4 according to law, testifies as
5 follows :
6 VIDEOGRAPHER : Go ahead .
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8 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . COMERFORD :
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10 Q . Thank you . My name is John Comerford, and this
11 is a deposition and before we start, I have to go over the
12 ground rules, I apologize . If you don't understand any of
13 my questions today, will you please let me know so that I
14 can rephrase them in a way that hopefully you do
15 understand? The Court Reporter can only take down one
16 person at a time . She gets quite frustrated with me
17 because I sometimes forget this fundamental rule and two
18 of us will speak at the same time, and she gets
19 frustrated . Please, wait for my full question before you
20 answer, and I'll extend the full courtesy to you and wait
21 for your answer before I proceed with the next question .
22 Does that sound fair?
23 A . Fair to me .
24 Q . Sir, your name is?
25 A . Richard Barako .
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1 Q . Can you spell your last name, please?
2 A . Last name is spelled, B-a-r-a-k-o .
3 Q . Barako, am I saying that correct, sir?
4 A . That's correct .
5 Q . Sir, my name is John Comerford along with Mark
6 Strauss who represent a number of Plaintiffs in this
7 matter, and I need to ask you some background questions if
8 I may . Have you ever given what's known as a deposition
9 before?
10 A . I've given depositions twice before .
11 Q . Did you give them in connection with asbestos
12 cases?
13 A . No, sir .
14 Q . I'm not going to get into the details of what
15 that previous testimony was, but can you give me the
16 general reason why you gave depositions in the past?
17 A . The reason was for my expertise with --
18 concerning spontaneous combustion with some of our
19 products .
20 Q . Other than the spontaneous combustion issue,
21 have you ever given depositions on other issues?
22 A . No, sir .
23 VIDEOGRAPHER : Standby .
24 VIDEOGRAPHER : Okay . Back on the video,
25 go ahead .
Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc .
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1 Q . Sir, your date of birth, please?
2 A . September the 1st, 1950 .
3 Q . And that makes you 54 then?
4 A . That's correct .
5 Q . You had a birthday recently, congratulations .
6 Sir, can you give me a thumbnail sketch of your
7 educational background?
8 A . Aside from high school, graduating in '68, I
9 attended the Penn State and the University of Scranton,
10 total of three years . I did not get my degree . The years
11 1972 at Penn State and then at the University of Scranton,
12 1989 .
13 Q . What was your area of study and focus in those
14 years, sir?
15 A . Business administration . f
16 Q . For both programs, the earlier and the later?
17 A . Yes .
18 Q . And sir, can you give me a thumbnail sketch of
19 your work history?
20 A . I have been with United Gilsonite Laboratories
21 for 36 years . I started in 1968, started in the plant on
22 production and then advanced to the quality control
23 laboratory and then into product development .
24 Q . In 1968, you worked in production ; correct,
25 sir?
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1 A . I'm sorry, yes .
2 Q . I just want to make sure we're on the same
3 page . And then what year did you -- what was your next
4 position with UGL?
5 A . I then went into the laboratory, the quality
6 control .
7 Q . Laboratory, quality control . What year was
8 that, sir?
9 A . Oh, that would have been 1969 .
10 Q . And then your next position and year?
11 A . I went into the product development .
12 Q . What year was that?
13 A . That would have been 1971 .
14 Q . And how long were you in that department for?
15 A . Until 1983 .
16 Q . And in 1983 you went into what department, sir?
17 A . Then I was put into -- actually, customer
18 relations .
19 Q . And then?
20 A . Until 1989, at which time I was made the
21 environmental health and safety manager .
22 Q . Have you -- you worked -- so you've been with
23 UGL from 1968 to the present?
24 A . That's correct .
25 Q . Did you work for any other companies during
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1 that time period?
2 A . No, sir .
3 Q . Sir, what I'd like to do is focus on each job
4 that you had and what your job responsibilities were for
5 each department ; okay?
6 A . Um-h= ; yes .
7 Q . Thank you . For production, do you know what
8 month you started in 1968?
9 A . August .
10 Q . And what month did you move over or into the
11 laboratory?
12 A . I'm not sure .
13 Q . Can you give me an estimate how much time in
14 1968 you were in production, because I know you went to
15 the laboratory in 1968 . Was it more or less than a year?
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
17 A . It would have been less than a year .
18 Q . Okay . More or less than six months?
19 A . More than six months but less than a year .
20 Q . Okay . So sometime between six months -- six to
21 12 months ; is that a fair approximation?
22 A . Yes .
23 Q . Okay . We heard testimony earlier from Mr .
24 Barrett about the various buildings at UGL . I'm probably
25 not going to spend a lot of time with you on the physical
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1 structure of the facility because we've already heard so
2 much testimony about that, but can you tell me while you
3 were in production what buildings or departments did you
4 work in?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
6 can answer .
7 A . The buildings would have been in what is
8 referred to as the main building .
9 Q . Okay .
10 A . Complex . That would have been where the
11 laboratory was and still is located, and that's where I
12 spent all the 36 years .
13 Q . Oh, so all my questions could focus on the main
14 building then?
15 A . Yes, sir .
16 Q . Now, when you worked in the production side for
17 the 6 to 12-month period, did you have a supervisor that
18 you answered to?
19 A . Yes, that would have been the -- actually the
20 paint filling room supervisor, a gentleman by the name of
21 Ephraim Walton .
22 Q . Is he still with us?
23 A . No, sir .
24 Q . Okay . Can you tell me the names of any of your
25 co-workers?
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1 A. At the t ime?
2 Q. Yes .
3 A. Mr . Barrett would have been one of them .
4 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
5 Are you talking about in that department?
6 MR . COMERFORD : I ' m only talking about his
7 work in production for that six to 12-month
8 period .
9 Q. Mr . Bar r ett , Mr . Walton , anyone else?
10 A. Mr . Walton , Bill -- William Evans (phonetic) ,
11 Elmer Croom , Paul Hiecklebeck (phonetic) - - don ' t ask me
12 to spell that -- that ' s about all I can - -
13 Q. Mr . Evans , Croom or Hiecklebeck , and I won ' t
14 ask you to spell that , are those three individuals still
15 with us today?
16 A. No , sir .
17 Q. Okay . What we r e your job responsibilities in
18 production?
19 A. General help , putting cans into packages ,
20 putting the filled packages on to skids or pallets and
21 then putting them into the shipment room for shipment and
22 dispersement .
23 Q . Did you work on any specific products that you
24 remember today, the manufacturing of them?
25 A . In --
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1 Q . Go ahead, sir .
2 A . In that particular sense, I would have worked
3 on the product at that time called Ready Mix sealer, clear
4 polyurethane coatings, all of the zar (phonetic) coatings .
5 Q . Did you work with any dry materials?
6 A . No, sir .
7 Q . Any of the paint materials you worked with --
8 should I call them paint materials or wet materials?
9 A . The correct term for it now would be coatings,
10 but paint is the same thing .
11 Q . Let's go with what you're most comfortable
12 with?
13 A . Paint .
14 Q . Let's go with paint . Do you believe that any
15 of those paint products contained asbestos that you worked
16 on in 1968 for the six to 12-month period?
17 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
18 can answer .
19 A . There would have been at that time a product,
20 we made a product called Gilsalume roof coating, a
21 fibrated roof coating, which would have had asbestos in
22 it .
23 Q . And did you actually assist in the manufacture
24 of that process?
25 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
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1 A . No, sir .
2 Q . But -- did that come out of the paint
3 department that you worked on or manufactured during that
4 six to 12-month period?
5 A . That would have come out there, yes .
6 Q . Do you know, sir, based on what you saw and
7 observed, how that process or that product was actually
8 manufactured?
9 A . No, sir .
10 Q . Did you ever see joint cement being
11 manufactured during that time period?
12 A . No, sir .
13 Q . During that time period that you were in
14 production, do you have any recollection of whether or not
15 bags of raw asbestos came into the facility?
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
17 can answer .
18 A . Yes, sir .
19 Q . And tell me what you remember seeing, sir .
20 A . At that period, the asbestos would have been
21 brought in in bags, paper bags in box cars, and it would
22 have been unloaded in the general area of where I was
23 working .
24 Q . And can you tell me how the asbestos bags are
25 transported from the rail car into the area you were
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1 working?
2 A . You had -- the bags were transferred from the
3 boxcar on to wooden pallets, and then the wooden pallet
4 was picked up by a lift truck and stacked in the
5 warehouse .
6 Q . Did you ever work in any way, shape or form in
7 the -- or assist workers in actually picking up the
8 material and transporting it into that work area?
9 A . No, sir .
10 Q . Do you know what workers did that job?
11 A . Right now I cannot think of any of their names .
12 They were all young, I mean, people that were working
13 there temporarily, some have moved on . Certainly no one
14 that's working that I can think of that was at the
15 Gilsonite now that had done that type of work .
16 Q . Do you know what frequency the bags of raw
17 asbestos came to the plant?
18 A . No, sir .
19 Q . Was it -- can you give me an idea if it was
20 more or less than once a month?
21 A . I would say it was probably less than once a
22 month .
23 Q . Can you say if it was more or less a month than
24 every 2 months?
25 A . Again, assuming -- I think that would be a fair
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1 assumption , yes .
2 Q. And when the bags of raw asbestos came can you
3 give me an idea of the amount of raw asbestos , whether it
4 be one bag , a couple hundred bags , pallets , any way you
5 want to describe the --
6 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , bu t
7 you can answer .
8 A. I think it would be fair to say that there was
9 a few hundred bags in a boxcar .
10 Q. And the people that were doing that work did
11 they wear any respirators or take any protections to avoid
12 exposure during that time period?
13 A. During that time period, no .
14 Q. Do you kno w who at the plant during that time
15 period was in charge of ordering the raw asbestos?
16 A. It would have been the purchasing agent at the
17 time, a gentleman by the name of Bill Phillips .
18 Q . And I understand he ' s passed away?
19 A . That ' s correct .
20 Q. Did you ever see any documentations , whether
21 invoices or bill of lading which would indicate where this
22 raw asbestos came from?
23 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
24 can answer .
25 A . I've never seen any paperwork of where it came
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1 from other than what was on the bags of the asbestos
2 itself .
3 Q . And what do you remember being on the bags,
4 sir?
5 A . There was, the name of a company . One was
6 Carey and the other one was Johns-Manville .
7 Q . Okay . So one company again was Johns-Manville
8 and you remember the other one was Carey Canada? You just
9 -- go ahead, sir . Go ahead, sir, I'm sorry .
10 A . I don't remember it saying Carey Canada in the
11 proper -- my understanding and my recollection was that
12 the Carey was from Canada, but I don't recall it ever
13 saying Carey Canada on the bags .
14 Q . Okay . And were these -- and if I ask the same
15 question twice this lovely lady to your right is going to
16 throw something at me, and I'm trying to not do that,
17 okay? Do you remember how the bags -- I'm sorry, how the
18 materials packaged, was it a canvas bag, a paper bag, a
19 burlap bag ; do you know as you sit here today?
20 A . It was in paper bags .
21 Q . Okay . And I know I'm limiting my questions
22 just to 1968 at this point . I am going to go outside that
23 range a little bit .
24 MS . MANDARANO : Right now?
25 Q . Right now, just for this period, though . I'm
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1 not trying to confuse you . But do you know for how long
2 UGL received bags of asbestos through this rail car?
3 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
4 can answer .
5 Q. Do you understand my question?
6 A. I understand the question . I ' m trying to
7 recollect just how long or when the rail -- we stopped
8 receiving it , the asbestos , in railcars when the railroad
9 siding was taken out . I, at this period , I cannot recall
10 w hat year that was .
11 Q. Do you know what your job was when that took
12 place?
13 A. I would say that at this point when that
14 occu rr ed , I was n ot in t he plant anymo r e . I w as now in
15 the laborato r y .
16 Q. And you worked the laboratory from 1969 to
17 1983?
18 A. 1989 , actually it would have been .
19 Q . Well, that ' s -- so that ' s a wide range . Can
20 you give me an idea when the rail car stopped , were you in
21 the lab for a 5-year period at this point, a 10 - year , a 15
22 or 20 , and I ' ll accept your best estimate at this point?
23 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
24 can answer .
25 A. I think a good guesstimate at that point I
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1 would have probably been anywhere from a five to 10-year
2 period .
3 Q. Okay .
4 A . That ' s as close as I can get to it .
5 Q. Are you comfortable saying this and if you ' re
6 not you tell me , okay? Was it sometime around 1975 , in
7 that time period , a year or two either way that the rail
8 car shipments of asbestos stopped?
9 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to fo r m , but you
10 can answer .
11 A. I really couldn ' t say if it was or not .
12 Q . Okay . But you were in the lab for at least a
13 number of years before it stopped ; is that fair to say , at
14 least t w o or three?
15 A . I would say that ' s fair .
16 Q. Okay . And for how long do you remember seeing
17 Carey can - - I ' m sor r y , Carey or Johns - Manville on those
18 bags of raw asbestos?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
20 Q . Was it just during your tenure when you were in
21 production , or is that something you saw later on in your
22 career , also?
23 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
24 A . I would say that it would be fair to say that I
25 saw it, not only when I was down on production , but as I
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1 was in the laboratory, too, I would have seen the bags in
2 the warehouse as I was walking through them .
3 Q . And I wanted to go over some products with you,
4 sir, to see if -- to see if you remember any of these
5 being manufactured while -- you know, I'm going to come
6 back to the products .
7 You talked about the Gilsonite roof coating
8 that was manufactured while you were in production?
9 A . Gilsalume .
10 Q . Thank you . Other than that while you were in
11 production, you don't remember the manufacturing of any
12 other asbestos-containing products while you were there?
13 A . There was --
14 Q . In your specific department?
15 A . Again, since I was in the laboratory, I would
16 have been testing to a certain --
17 Q . Sir, I apologize . My question is only limited
18 to production for that 6 to 12-month period?
19 A . I'm sorry .
20 Q . And that's my fault, I didn't specify . I'm
21 going to broaden my question soon . I just want to focus
22 on your specific jobs, and then we'll move on? I
23 apologize . That's my fault .
24 The six to 12 months that you were in
25 production, other than the Gilsalume ; do you remember any
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1 other products?
2 A. No , sir .
3 Q. Let ' s turn our attention to when you went into
4 the laboratory for quality control . That was
5 approximately 1969 , sir?
6 A. Yes , si r .
7 Q . Can you tell me why you switched to that
8 depar t ment . Was that a promotion? You ' re humble?
9 A. The company would have considered it a
10 promotion , yes .
11 Q . Okay . So you go - - you ' re promoted in 1969 .
12 What was your title again?
13 A. Laboratory technician .
14 Q. Okay . And that was in the lab again i n
15 building number 1?
16 A. That ' s correct .
17 Q . And can you give me an idea what your job
18 titles were?
19 A. Laboratory technician .
20 Q. I ' m sorry, job functions?
21 A. At that point , I would have been testing the
22 finished goods or the product before they were released
23 for packaging .
24 Q . And can you give me the type of products that
25 you actually tested?
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1 A . It would have been all the Ready Mix materials,
2 products like Ready Mix sealer, the -- all the zar clear
3 polyurethanes that we made at the time, any caulks that
4 would have been made at the time would have been brought
5 to the quality control . Basically, everything -- every
6 product that we make goes through quality control, so
7 anything that we had made at the time would have been
8 taken to the quality control lab .
9 Q . And when you were testing these products was
10 one of the functions to see if the products were safe for
11 use by customers?
12 A . No, sir .
13 Q . So the safety component was not what you were
14 looking at then?
15 A . My only work function at that point was to make
16 sure that the products fell within the established
17 parameters before the product was released for packaging .
18 Q . And who set those established parameters, sir?
19 A . That would have been the laboratory manager at
20 the time .
21 Q . And who is that?
22 A . His name is Joe Manzo .
23 Q . And I understand he's passed away?
24 A . That's correct .
25 Q . Was -- then was there anyone whose job it was
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1 at your facility to specifically test for the safety
2 aspects of products?
3 A . No, sir .
4 Q . These parameters, do they also include formulas
5 for you to look at? Do you understand what I mean by
6 that, product formulas?
7 A . I had no reason to look at the formulas . All I
8 was doing at that point was just making sure that the
9 product, as it was brought in, fell under the established
10 parameters that we had set up -- or had been set up .
11 Q . I forgot to ask you : This job you had was 1971
12 to 1991?
13 A . Approximately 1969 to approximately 1971, yes .
14 Q . Did you ever look at, for example, joint cement
15 that was being manufactured?
16 A . No, sir .
17 Q . Was there anyone that looked at joint cement?
18 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
19 Q . By looking at joint cement, I meant
20 specifically for some of the parameters that you looked at
21 for other products?
22 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
23 A . At that point if you're referring to the
24 quality control of the joint cement, the only one that
25 would have done that that's still with us would have been
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1 John Kozak .
2 Q. And how do you spell his name?
3 A. K-o - z -a- k .
4 Q. Is there a reason that he would have looked at
5 joint cement and not you or -- I mean , for example , did he
6 have , Mr . Kozak , did he have dry products under his watch
7 and you had more paint products , or I ' m just wondering why
8 he would look at -- may have looked at and you didn ' t?
9 MS . MANDA RANO : Objection to the fo rm .
10 A . When you say look at , are you referring to
11 looking at the formulas or looking at the product , the
12 sample being brought up for testing?
13 Q. Looking at the products being brought up for
14 testing?
15 A . No , I would have done that . I thought you were
16 referring to looking at formulas .
17 Q . No , I ' m talking about -- let me actually show
18 you what ' s been marked as Exhibit 1-A , so we ' re on the
19 same page . Can you tell me what that ' s a picture of , sir?
20 MS . MANDARANO : You don ' t need to lift it
21 up .
22 Q . Do you know what that is , sir?
23 A . That ' s dry cement - - powdered joint compound,
24 joint cement .
25 Q . Okay . And are you familiar whether or not UGL
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1 manufactured joint cement in a 5-pound box and also in a
2 25-pound bag?
3 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
4 can answer .
5 Q . Do you know that either way?
6 A . I'm aware that they made it in a 5-pound box .
7 I'm not aware that they made it in a 25-pound bag .
8 Q . Did you ever, during your tenure at UGL, ever
9 come into contact with the UGL joint cement?
10 A . In a sense of testing it, yes .
11 Q . And when did you -- when did you personally
12 test UGL joint cement, sir?
13 A . The time that I was in the quality control lab .
14 Q . Okay . And that was, just so -- can you give me
15 the time frame that was? Was that sometime between 1969
16 and 1971?
17 A . That's correct .
18 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
19 answered .
20 Q . And how often did you actually test that
21 product? And what I'm looking for is frequency . Was it
22 something that came in daily, weekly, monthly, yearly?
23 I'm just looking for your best estimate .
24 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
25 A . That product was not, as far as production
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1 went, a high production type of product, so I would have
2 to say to the best of my recollection you may have tested
3 a batch of that once every two months, something like
4 that .
5 Q . Okay . And when you tested it, sir, what did
6 you test for?
7 A . Adhesion to, like a wall board surface, plaster
8 board surface .
9 Q . And when did you that would you actually sort
10 of recreate what customers might be doing at either their
11 home or business?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
13 A . Yes .
14 Q . Can you tell me the type of work you did?
15 A . Very simple . You took and mixed the material
16 up to a troweling consistency, and then you took a piece
17 of wall board and you put a base coat of the joint cement
18 on to the wall board, and then took a piece of the joint
19 tape and then embedded the joint tape into the now wet
20 joint cement .
21 You then let that dry overnight, and the next
22 day you would take the tape and try to pull it off . The
23 objective was that you should not be able to pull the
24 joint tape off the surface of the wall board .
25 Q . Was sanding ever involved, sanding?
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1 A. No , sir .
2 Q. So it ' s your testimony that when - - not --
3 would it be involved for the customer? That ' s probably a
4 better question .
5 MS . MAN DARAN O : Objection to the f orm .
6 A. Yes .
7 Q . Did you ever have occasion for any reason to
8 actually sand the product?
9 A. No , sir , I can ' t recall I ever did .
10 Q. Okay . What did the atmosphere look like upon
11 the removal of the tape? Was any dust generated?
12 A. No , sir .
13 Q. Was the intended use of the product at times ,
14 did that require the customers to sand the product ,
15 though?
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
17 could answer .
18 A. Yes .
19 Q. Were you ever present for whatever reason to
20 see a customer or a colleague or someone sand UGL joint
21 cement?
22 A. No , sir , I can ' t recall that at all .
23 Q. And do you have any personal knowledge of
24 whether the UGL joint cement, whether the UGL joint cement
25 contained asbestos?
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1 A. No , sir .
2 Q. That was never -- did you ever have any idea of
3 what the binder - - did these products have commonly known
4 as binders in the product?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to fo rm , you can
6 answer .
7 A. Then?
8 Q. Then .
9 A . Then, no , sir .
10 Q. Okay . The product -- when you actually worked
11 with it , did it come in a type of packaging that your
12 customers ultimately would work with?
13 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
14 Q . Do you understand what I mean by that? You did
15 testing of the product, did you not , sir?
16 A. Yes , sir .
17 Q . When you actually received samples , did it come
18 in the type of packaging that one would see at the store ,
19 or how did it come to you?
20 A . It would have come in a paper bag .
21 Q . Okay . And that material at times was dry?
22 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
23 Q . When you first got it?
24 A. It was always dry when you first got it .
25 Q. Okay . And then to prepare it you would add
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1 water , sir?
2 A . That ' s correct .
3 Q. When you added the water to the product , you
4 would also mix it?
5 A. That ' s correct .
6 Q . We talked about that earlier , you wanted to get
7 the right consistency . Did the adding of the water and
8 the mixing create any dust?
9 A. If there was - -
10 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to t he form .
11 You can answer .
12 A . If there was any dust , it was very minimum . I
13 don ' t recall ever making a note of it that there was a lot
14 of dust being generated . I ' m sure if you poured , you
1 5 know , into the bowl that you were mi x ing in , there might
16 be a small amount , but once it was being mixed , no .
17 Q . Give me an appreciation . When you sampled this
18 material , how much would you sample and test? Was it the
19 size of an 8-ounce glass? Was it the same amount that a
20 customer might be mixing?
21 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
22 Calls for speculation .
23 A. I -- I would say that it was a lot less than
24 what a customer would use . It was a very small amount .
25 If you were to put a weight limit or an amount on it,
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1 probably less than a quarter of a pound of the material .
2 Q. So in a commercial setting , would you agree
3 with me if tradesmen are mixing a lot more than that , the
4 more dust -- the more product the more working with ,
5 potentially the more dust that would be generated?
6 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the for m .
7 Calls for speculation .
8 A . The fact that I never saw it being used
9 commercially , I can ' t say .
10 Q . Let me go over some products with you , and tell
11 me if these were ever worked on by you in the lab . Can we
12 do that?
13 A. Certainly .
14 MS . M ANDARANO : Is the r e any time
15 limitation on this question or not?
16 MR . COMERFORD : You know w hat I should do?
17 Let me first ask you questions in 1971 .
18 Q. You went in product deve l opment . Let me find
19 out what you did in product development , and then I ' ll go
20 back and go over the specific questions . I r eally don ' t
21 want to repeat myself .
22 A. As the name implies , the product development
23 was the development of new products that our salesmen were
24 out in the field themself, that they were running into as
25 they made their sales call and they felt that the products
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1 would then fit into our present product line .
2 Q . And can you give me an idea then the type of
3 work you were doing with product development from 1971 to
4 1989?
5 A . I was working under the chief chemist, at that
6 time a gentleman by the name of Robert Toothill . In fact,
7 I was his arms and legs . He would come up with the
8 formulas, and I would put the product together .
9 Q. Mr . Toothill, is he still living?
10 A . No, sir .
11 Q . Yeah . You don't want me asking about how
12 someone is doing in life because I keep finding out
13 they're not with us anymore?
14 A . That particular one brings a great pain to me
15 and all that because he was a great guy .
16 Q . I'm sorry he left us . Now, Mr . Toothill, were
17 you then familiar with some of the formulas that these
18 products had by your working with him?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form, but
20 you can answer .
21 A . Of the new products that we came up with?
22 Q . Yes?
23 A . Since I put them together, yes, I would know
24 them .
25 Q . I just didn't want to assume anything . From
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1 19791 to 1989, did some products contain asbestos that you
2 worked with?
3 A . No, sir .
4 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
5 Q . Can you give me an idea, I know this is
6 probably a difficult question, how many different products
7 you worked with?
8 A . I think a fair answer to that would be
9 literally hundreds of them . Not all of them made it into
10 our product line, but we certainly looked at many
11 products .
12 Q . And then, sir, you went into customer relations
13 in 1983?
14 A . Yes, sir .
15 Q . Can you give me an idea of the type of work you
16 did in customer relations?
17 A . There because of my knowledge of the product
18 and the tenure I had with the company, I was answering the
19 questions that our customers out in the field would call
20 up and ask about, any type of general questions about our
21 products, how, their use, where they can be bought, things
22 like that .
23 Q . Was there a certain type of customers you'd
24 answer to?
25 A . No, anyone who was at the other end of the line
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1 when I picked up the phone, that's who I answered .
2 Q . Would that include homeowners at times?
3 A . Yes, sir .
4 Q . Would it include larger customers like
5 distributors who actually sold your product?
6 A . Yes, sir .
7 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
8 Q . Any other type of customers that I should --
9 that I left out?
10 A . I suppose one that pops into mind would be
11 people like the architects or someone like that, yeah .
12 Q . What about contractors who actually installed
13 your material?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
15 A . There may have been .
16 Q . Okay . Focusing on customer relations and
17 various customers, are there any specific customers that
18 you remember that UGL sold products to over the year
19 (sic)?
20 MS . MANDARANO : Object ; objection to form .
21 A . I wouldn't be able to give you a direct answer .
22 There were literally hundreds of them, thousands probably .
23 Q . I'm just looking for maybe the top three or
24 four, whether it be a True Value, an Ace Hardware . Are
25 there any that stand out that you remember?
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1 MS . MANDARANO : Object to form, but you
2 can answer?
3 A . Accounts that pop into my mind, memory would be
4 accounts like Heckingers, Sherwin-Williams, people like
5 that .
6 Q . Okay . Was Ace one of those customers?
7 A . Yes .
8 Q . Was R .K .B . one of those customers?
9 A . That I don't recall .
10 Q . Sir, did there come a time -- oh, what about
11 hardware wholesalers? Was that one of those customers?
12 A . That I can't recall, either .
13 Q . Have you ever known or met someone who has an
14 asbestos-related disease?
15 A . No, sir .
16 Q . Have you ever heard of the medical term
17 asbestosis?
18 A . I've heard the term being used, not so much in
19 connection with the company or what my work and all, but
20 on television itself, ads and that .
21 Q . Have you ever heard the medical term
22 mesothelioma?
23 A . Again, that term I can almost guarantee you
24 that I heard that the first time and ever since on
25 television .
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1 Q. Did there come a time period where you first
2 learned that there may be a potential health hazard
3 connected with asbestos?
4 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
5 can answer .
6 A . There was a -- back in 19 -- the early ' 70s
7 when you start getting reports through the trade magazines
8 and the trade organizations that - - about the health
9 affects of asbestos , that would have been my earliest
10 recollection .
11 Q . And do you know as you sit here today what
12 trade journals that UGL or yourself personally received
13 over the years?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to for m .
15 A . The one that would come to mind, the main one
16 would be - - the publication by the name of the Paint
17 Journal . It ' s put out by the Philadelphia Paint Society .
18 Q. Any other journals that stand out , sir?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
20 Q . That you remember receiving?
21 A. Not really . I can ' t recall any others .
22 Q. Were you , yourself , or anyone at UGL , a member
23 of an association of any other -- of any specific trade
24 association?
25 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
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1 can answer it .
2 A . I was not a member of any, but the people like
3 Robert Toothill would have been a member of the, not only
4 the National Paint Coatings Association but also the
5 Philadelphia Paint Society .
6 Q . Any others that stand out, sir?
7 A . I can't recall any others .
8 Q . Have you ever heard of an association called
9 the Gypsum Association?
10 A . No, sir .
11 Q . As part of your job either in the laboratory or
12 product development or even customer relations, did you
13 take the time to learn about some of the products UGL's
14 competitors were manufacturing?
15 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
16 can answer .
17 A . In the respect that some of our products, if a
18 competitor was making a product that our salesmen thought
19 might fit into our line, it was common practice to bring
20 in a sample of that product so that we could compare to
21 what we came up with to make sure that we were the same
22 quality and the same working qual -- properties, yes .
23 Q . And that's customary in your business?
24 A . Yes, sir .
25 Q . Because you want to stay competitive ; correct?
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1 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the f orm .
2 A. Yes .
3 Q . Can you give me , just - - I ' m -- not the
4 specific products , but were there manufacturers that you
5 guys sort of kept an eye out on , that like UGL , were sort
6 of leaders in the field and you ' d want to know what they
7 were doing or what they were manufacturing?
8 MS . MAN D ARANO : Obj e ction to the form , and
9 objection to the characterization that UGL is a
10 leader in the field ; that ' s improper , counsel .
11 MR . COMERFORD : You know , she -- your
12 attorney is right . I ' m going to withdraw my
13 question . Okay?
14 Q . Let ' s do it this way : Were there any
15 manufacturers that UGL -- products that UGL considered
16 competitors?
17 A. In several field -- yes , I would say our
18 polyurethanes , we would have considered people like Minwax
19 and Flecto ' s as competitors , our main competitors .
20 F - 1 - e-c - t - o .
21 Q. And others , sir?
22 A. It came to our wiping stains , again Minwax
23 would have been our main competitor .
24 Q . Midwax?
25 A. Minwax , M - i - n - w - a -x .
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1 Q . Thank you . Minwax . Minwax, Flecto, any others
2 that stand out? Let me ask you about a few and see if --
3 (Whereupon, there is an off-the-record
4 discussion .)
5 A . No, I'm sorry .
6 Q . Let me ask you about Georgia-Pacific
7 Corporation? Are you familiar with that company ; did you
8 ever hear of it?
9 A . I've heard of it, yes .
10 Q . Did you consider Georgia-Pacific a competitor
11 to UGL?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form, but
13 he can answer .
14 A . I don't believe we ever considered
15 Georgia-Pacific to be a competitor .
16 Q . What about the Bondex Corporation?
17 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
18 A . Bondex would have been considered to be a
19 competitor in our waterproofing line . They made a line of
20 waterproofers .
21 Q . What about Kaiser Gypsum, are you familiar with
22 that company?
23 A . No, sir .
24 Q . National Gypsum?
25 MS . MANDARANO : Is that a phone in here?
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1 MR . COMERFORD : We have to suspend the
2 video for just a second to pick this phone .
3 (Whereupon, there is an off-the-record
4 discussion .)
5 VIDEOGRAPHER : Back on the video, 3 :34 :29 .
6 Go ahead .
7 BY MR . COMERFORD :
8 Q . National Gypsum, are you familiar with that
9 company, sir?
10 A . No, sir .
11 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
12 Q . United States Gypsum, did you consider them a
13 competitor?
14 A . No, sir .
15 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
16 Q . Sir, at this point, I'd like to go over some
17 products with you, and I'm going to try to obtain really
18 your personal knowledge of these products, if you have
19 any .
20 So my first question will always be : Do you
21 know this product, and then I'll break it down, and if you
22 don't I'll move on . Drylok ready mixed sealer?
23 A . Yes, sir .
24 Q . What was that product used for?
25 A . That was a waterproofing compound that you
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1 applied to bare masonry walls to stop the physical water
2 from passing through .
3 Q . Do you know if that product contained any
4 asbestos?
5 A . At one time it did, yes .
6 Q . And sir, are you familiar, and I didn't ask you
7 this earlier about the different types of asbestos fibers,
8 do you know if there are types, different types?
9 A . No, sir .
10 Q . Okay . Do you know what years that product
11 contained asbestos?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
13 can answer .
14 A . I can't give you the exact year, but I can take
15 what I consider to be a good guesstimate and say --
16 MS . MANDARANO : We don't want you to
17 guess .
18 THE WITNESS : I beg your pardon .
19 MS . MANDARANO : Plaintiffs' counsel
20 doesn't and I don't want you to . I'm sure he
21 agrees with me .
22 A . The -- I cannot say when the asbestos was taken
23 out, or give you the year for that .
24 Q . Can you give me a decade?
25 A . '70s .
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1 Q. Can you say whether it was early , late or mid
2 ' 70s?
3 A. Early .
4 Q. One second , sir . And this product , the sealer ,
5 it would come in what type of package , sir?
6 A . Gallons and 5 gallons .
7 Q . And how would it be applied , if you know?
8 MS . MANDARANO : Object i on to the fo r m .
9 A . Brush .
10 Q . And would it eventually dry on the surface , I
11 assume?
12 A . That ' s correct .
13 Q . Would it require to be sanded or disturbed in
14 any way?
15 A. No , sir .
16 Q . And this product , do you know as you sit here
17 today whether there ' s any warnings on the product labeling
18 concerning the potential health hazards of asbestos?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
20 can answer .
21 A. You ' re referring to the present time?
22 Q. No . When it contained asbestos?
23 A . No, sir, it didn't .
24 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
25 Q . Did there come a time when that product ,
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1 asbestos was removed from it?
2 A. Yes , si r .
3 Q. Do you know what was substituted for the
4 product?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Objectio n to fo rm , but you
6 can answer .
7 A. No , sir , I can ' t recall .
8 Q . Let me ask you about some substitutes and see
9 if these ring a bell , okay?
10 A . Okay .
11 Q. Talc --
12 MS . MANDARANO : What does this have to do
13 with this litigation? This is the third
14 witness you guys are asking about this stuff ,
15 and it has nothing to do with this litigation .
16 I ' m going to let it , but I really think this is
17 a colossal waste of time .
18 Q. Do you know about talc , Vermiculite or
19 Lizerdite?
20 A. No , sir .
21 Q. And do you know what reason the asbestos was
22 taken out?
23 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
24 can answer .
25 A . It was taken out because the asbestos was
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1 considered to be at that time a hazardous, and we decided
2 we didn't want to have it in our product any longer .
3 Q . Do you remember having any conversations with
4 anyone about that?
5 A . No, sir .
6 Q . Do you ever remember seeing a written
7 memorandum or some document from anyone at UGL talking
8 about the necessity of removing asbestos from any
9 products?
10 A . No, sir .
11 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
12 Q . Were you ever present -- do you remember the
13 general issue of asbestos and health hazards ever being
14 discussed by anyone who is an employee of UGL?
15 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
16 can answer .
17 A . The only recollection I have would have been
18 just the passing remarks about the then recognized hazards
19 about asbestos and a need for, to remove it from the
20 products .
21 Q . And who -- I apologize -- do you remember who
22 said that or who intimated that or had that conversation,
23 what person?
24 A . At that time it would have been the then
25 technical director, a gentleman by the name of John
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1 Williams .
2 Q. And I think we already said he ' s passed away ;
3 correct?
4 A. I haven ' t said that , but yes , it ' s correct .
5 MS . MANDARANO : The other deponents who
6 came here have already testified to that
7 numerous times .
8 Q. So I ' m going to take you back to the Nixon
9 administration , not a great time in American history , but
10 that ' s a debate for another . Sir , do you kno w whether or
11 not OSHA around that time period was actually passed by - -
12 or pushed through by the Nixon administration , early
13 1970s?
14 MS . MANDARA N O : Objection to for m .
15 Q. I say that to try to give you a time frame of
16 when OSHA came into existence .
17 MS . MANDARANO : Still the sa me objection .
18 A. Are you asking me when , when to the best of my
19 knowledge that I know that OSHA came into existence?
20 Q . Exactly .
21 MS . MANDARANO : I don ' t think that ' s a
22 fair question .
23 A. OSHA came into -- into existence -- on the
24 books by Congress passing the Occupation, Safety and
25 Health Act in 1972 .
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1 Q . You're good . Now with the passing of OSHA, did
2 you -- did you know that when it passed or is that
3 something you found out later? I mean, did you learn that
4 contemporaneously when that regulation got passed?
5 A . I became aware of that much later .
6 Q . Okay . So my question is : When did you become
7 aware of OSHA coming into existence in and around 1972?
8 A . When I took on the safety duties of the company
9 in 1989 .
10 Q . Okay . Sir, concerning the raw asbestos that
11 was asked to, as you sit here today are you familiar with
12 any specific grade of asbestos, whether it be long or
13 short that was being purchased by UGL over any period of
14 time?
15 A . No, sir .
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form, and
17 objection ; asked and answered .
18 Q . Are you familiar with a product known as JM
19 7RF9?
20 A . 7RF9 would have been the designation on the
21 asbestos that we did get in, yes .
22 Q . Okay . And was that one of the most -- more
23 common ones that was purchased or was it -- was all the
24 raw asbestos that was purchased fall under the grade of JM
25 7RF9?
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1 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form ; you can
2 answer .
3 A . I would have to say that that probably was the
4 majority of it .
5 Q . Let's turn to Vault sealer . Actually, I'm
6 going to turn to a product called butyl caulk ; B-u-t-y-l
7 caulk, c-a-u-1-k . Do you remember that product, sir?
8 A . Yes, sir .
9 Q . Did that contain asbestos?
10 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
11 A . I'm not quite certain whether it did or not . I
12 --
13 Q . Can you tell -- go ahead, sir .
14 A . I've never had anything to do with the
15 manufacture of butyl caulk, so I don't know what --
16 Q . Well, let me back up . Was butyl caulk
17 manufactured by UGL ever?
18 A . Yes, sir .
19 Q . Okay . And what was butyl caulk used for?
20 A . It was a normal type of caulking product with a
21 butyl base that was used to fill up cracks and holes in
22 different substances to prevent the infiltration of air
23 and water .
24 Q . Do you know how that product came packaged?
25 A . It came packaged in an 11 .5 ounce tube, caulk
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1 tube .
2 Q. Are you familiar with whether or not that
3 product ever contained asbestos?
4 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
5 answered .
6 A. I ' m not certain of that , no .
7 Q . Vault sealer . Are you familiar with that
8 product?
9 A. Yes , sir .
10 Q . Did UGL manufacture a vault sealer?
11 A. Yes , sir .
12 Q. Can you tell me what that product ' s intended
13 use was?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Object i on .
15 A . That was used , as the name implies , to seal up
16 the inside and outside of burial vaults to prevent water
17 from infiltrating .
18 Q. Was vault sealer , how was it packaged?
19 A. In 5-gallon pails .
20 Q. And do you have any personal knowledge whether
21 that product contained asbestos?
22 A. Yes , sir .
23 Q. And did it?
24 A . That contained asbestos .
25 Q. And do you know what year time period asbestos
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1 was removed from that product?
2 A. No , sir .
3 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
4 Q. Are you familiar with Nudeck roof cement?
5 A. Yes , si r .
6 Q. And what was the intended purpose of that
7 product?
8 A. That was an asphalt-base material that was
9 used to seal up cracks and holes in roofs .
10 Q. And do you know if that product ever contained
11 asbestos?
12 A. Yes , sir .
13 Q. Do you know if -- how that product was
14 packaged?
15 A. That would have been in 5 - gallon and 1 - gal
16 pails .
17 Q. Are you familiar w i th a product called -- or do
18 you know what year approximately that product had asbestos
19 removed from it, sir?
20 A. No , sir .
21 Q. I ' m going to make sure I say this correctly ,
22 Lastideck roof coating?
23 A. Yes , sir .
24 Q . What was that products intended use , sir?
25 A . Again that was a thinner version of the Nudeck
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1 roof cement and it was , rather than being applied by a
2 trowel , it was applied by a broom or some other type of
3 brush , but it had the same basic use , end use , to be used
4 on asphalt roofs to seal up any holes or cracks to
5 prevent water from infiltrating .
6 Q. And I didn ' t as k this , this was a product
7 manufactured by UGL?
8 A. Yes , si r .
9 Q. And did this product , how did it come packaged?
10 A. It would have come packaged in gallon and
11 5-gallon containers .
12 Q . Do you believe that product contained asbestos?
13 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
14 A. It did .
15 Q. And do you know what year approximately that
16 asbestos was taken out of that product?
17 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
18 A. No .
19 Q. Are you familiar with a stove liner that was
20 manufactured by UGL?
21 A . No, sir .
22 Q. Are you familiar with a furnace cement that was
23 manufactured by UGL?
24 A. Yes , sir .
25 Q . And how did that material come packaged?
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1 A. That came packaged in various sizes . It was
2 sold by weight , so it would have been 1 pound and it came
3 in 5-pound and 10-pound cans , basically pint , quart and
4 gallon cans .
5 Q . Did that material contain asbestos?
6 A . Yes .
7 Q . And did there come a time when asbestos was
8 removed from that product?
9 A . Removed , actually the product was actually
10 discontinued , so I ' m not certain whether the asbestos was
11 ever taken out of it for that reason .
12 Q . Are you familiar with something called Glazol?
13 A. Glazol , yes .
14 Q. Glazol .
15 A. Yes , sir .
16 Q . Did UGL manufacture Glazol?
17 A. Yes .
18 Q. And what was the purpose of that product?
19 A. Glazol was a product that was to be used in two
20 respects . It was a knife grade caulking compound , and it
21 was also used primarily on windows to seat glass in wooden
22 frames to prevent the -- any vibration from breaking the
23 glass .
24 Q. And did this material , how did it come
25 packaged?
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1 A. That came packaged in half pints , pints ,
2 quarts , and gallons .
3 Q. And did this product contain asbestos?
4 A. Yes , sir .
5 Q. Do you know what year the asbestos was removed?
6 A. No , sir .
7 Q . Are you familiar with UGL caulk oil?
8 A. Oil caulk , yes , sir .
9 Q. Okay . And what was that product used for?
10 A. Again typical use for caulking . In other words
11 fill up cracks and holes in substrates , interior
12 substrates .
13 COURT REPORTER : Sub?
14 A . Substrates , s-u-b-r - a - t-e-s .
15 Q. This product contained asbestos?
16 A. That I ' m not certain of .
17 Q . And how did it come packaged again . I ' m
18 sorry .
19 A . Again in typical 11 .5 ounce caulk tubes .
20 Q. Therma king caulk oil . Is that a product
21 manufactured by UGL?
22 A. That was .
23 Q . And did that contain asbestos?
24 A . It did .
25 Q . And do you as you sit here today , do you
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1 remember what that products intended use was?
2 A . Same use as the UGL oil caulk . In fact, it was
3 the same product with a different name .
4 Q . Did this product contain asbestos, if you know?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
6 answered .
7 A . That I don't know that .
8 Q . Are you familiar with a textured paint known as
9 Splurge?
10 A . I'm familiar with the name, yes .
11 Q . Do you know if that ever contained asbestos?
12 A . I -- I don't know that .
13 Q . The joint cement we discussed earlier, the
14 25-pound bag and the 5-pound box . You were familiar with
15 one and not the other ; is that correct? I'm trying to
16 remember your testimony .
17 A . I've never saw personally a 25-pound box of the
18 material .
19 Q . I was trying to remember . You seemed to know
20 one more than the other . Do you know if that product
21 contained asbestos?
22 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
23 answered .
24 A . I don't .
25 Q . The fibrated roofing, we talked about that
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1 earlier . Did that ever contain asbestos?
2 A . Yes, sir .
3 Q . And can you tell me what this roofing material
4 looked like?
5 A . It was an asphalt-base material that would have
6 had an aluminum appearance to it, hence the name
7 Gilsalume .
8 Q . And do you know what year that product ceased
9 to contain asbestos?
10 A . No, sir .
11 Q . I forgot to ask you . That product was
12 manufactured by UGL?
13 A . It was .
14 Q . Now, sir, as you sit here today do you remember
15 whether or not the asbestos was removed from all of these
16 various products all at once or was it done at different
17 times?
18 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
19 A . To the best of my recollection, what would have
20 happened is it was -- it would have been removed from the
21 higher volume products first and put the -- the idea was
22 to remove it all . It would -- in other words, it would
23 not have been done in one fell swoop . It would have been
24 done over a period of years, months or years .
25 Q . And that -- you beat me to my next question .
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1 How long did it take as you know -- strike that .
2 How long did it take to remove the asbestos
3 from a number of these products?
4 A . I have no idea .
5 Q. You just indicated a number of months from a
6 number of years . Can you give me your best estimate of a
7 time frame?
8 MS . MANDARANO : Objectio n, he ' s a lr eady
9 testified to it . He can answer again .
10 A. A good guesstimate on my part would have
11 probably been that it was removed completely from all
12 products within a year .
13 MS . MANDARANO : We don ' t want you to
14 guess .
15 A. It was r e moved within a year .
16 Q. Okay . Were you ever present or were involved
17 in any meetings with anyone from UGL discussing the
18 transition to the asbestos - free product lines?
19 A . No .
20 MS . MANDARANO : Objection . That was asked
21 and answered . You know what , withdrawn . You
22 didn ' t ask that .
23 MR . COMERFORD : She ' s so used to objecting
24 it ' s almost a knee-jerk reaction with people .
25 I bring that out in people .
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1 Q. I ' m trying -- did UGL ever have a meeting that
2 talked about what steps were going to be taken to remove
3 the asbestos from the products?
4 A. If such a meeting took place , I was not present
5 at it .
6 Q . Okay . Are you familiar with something known as
7 formula cards?
8 A. Yes , sir .
9 Q. Did some of these products that I just went
10 over with you from , you know , the ready mix sealers and
11 the caulks, did most of these products have formula cards
12 associated with them?
13 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
14 A. Yes .
15 Q. Would these formula cards specify the amount of
16 asbestos and other materials that were utilized in the
17 products?
18 A. I don ' t r ecall that being on the cards .
19 Q . Was there -- did some products contain a higher
20 percentage of asbestos than others?
21 A. That I don ' t recall , either .
22 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
23 Q . Do you have any personal knowledge, or would
24 you have ever seen in your career at UGL , the amount of
25 asbestos that would have been used - - I ' m just wondering
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1 how it was documented whether it be formula cards or
2 otherwise for these products that contain asbestos?
3 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
4 A . I never got involved with any formula cards as
5 far as reading formula cards . The formula cards were
6 there and obviously they were in use in the plant to the
7 people who had to make the product itself .
8 Q . These cards, do you know if they're in
9 existence today?
10 A . That I have no idea of . I have nothing to do
11 with the formula cards .
12 Q . Who does today at the plant?
13 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
14 A . The person who would be the lab manager and a
15 guy by the name of Ernie Mumford (phonetic) .
16 Q . Mr . Mumford, is that his name?
17 A . That's correct .
18 Q . How long has he been at the plant?
19 A . Not long . He started in February .
20 Q . If you wanted --
21 MS . MANDARANO : You're asking about cards
22 from -- we're talking about the 1960s and '70s
23 is ; correct?
24 MR . COMERFORD : Exactly . I'm only talking
25 about cards involving asbestos-containing
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1 material . I'm not talking about todays' cards
2 or any trade secrets you guys may have .
3 Q . But is that something you think you could check
4 to see if there's any cards that go back for the formulas
5 for the '60s and '70s?
6 MS . MANDARANO : Counsel, we have already
7 conducted a search for them, and we produced
8 already the cards that are in existence .
9 Q . Oh . I'll come back to the cards ; okay?
10 MS . MANDARANO : I'll reproduce them to
11 you .
12 MR . COMERFORD : Thank you .
13 Q . That leads me to spackling compound products
14 that UGL manufactured . My first question to you is : Are
15 you familiar with a wet sparkling compound that came in
16 cans?
17 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but yoL
18 can answer it .
19 A . We make a ready mix sparkling compound .
20 Q . For how long have you manufactured sparkling
21 compounds that come in cans ; how long has that been?
22 A . Well, certainly before I came with the company,
23 so at least over 36 years .
24 Q . These sparkling products, do you know if they
25 ever contained asbestos?
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1 A. No , si r .
2 Q. Is it you don ' t know or you don ' t think they
3 did?
4 A. I don ' t believe they ever did . They did not .
5 I ' m sorry . They did not ever contain asbestos .
6 Q . And why do you say that? How do you know that ,
7 sir?
8 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; calls f o r --
9 Q. I ' m talking about your personal knowledge .
10 MS . MANDARANO : You haven ' t asked him why
11 whether or not he knows whether it contains
12 asbestos before - - you can ask the question .
13 Q . Go ahead , sir , Why do you believe they didn ' t
14 contain a s bestos?
15 A. Because they would not have been any -- any of
16 the products mentioned about reformulating -- removing the
17 asbestos from the products itself .
18 Q. Okay . So is some of the basis of your
19 knowledge that some products contained asbestos is that
20 you remember that some of these products were -- the
21 company had to go about and actually take asbestos out of
22 the product?
23 A. I ' m saying that any product that we made that
24 had asbestos in it would have been reformulated to remove
25 the asbestos, yes .
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1 Q. And you never have any - - you don ' t have any
2 recollection of sparkling compounds going through that
3 reformulation?
4 MS . MANDARANO : Objection .
5 A. That ' s right .
6 Q . Did the company ever have a plant manager that
7 you know of , that you remember?
8 A. The company ' s always had a plant manager .
9 Q. Okay . And from when you sta r ted to the present
10 can you give me the plant managers?
11 A. There was only two . The one when I started was
12 a gentleman by the name of Preston Jones , and then the
13 present plant manager a gentleman by the name of William
14 D ' Andrea .
15 Q. Are either of those gentlemen still alive
16 today?
17 A . Thank God William D ' Andrea is still alive .
18 Preston Jones is not .
19 Q . And Mr . D ' Andrea , how old is he , approxmately?
20 A. Mr . D ' Andrea would be approximately 57 years
21 old .
22 Q. Is he the current plant manager?
23 A. He is .
24 Q. Okay . Do you know if the plant ever had a
25 corporate medical director or medical doctor on staff?
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1 MS . MANDARAN O : Objection to form .
2 A. No , sir .
3 Q . Do you know if the plant ever had a union --
4 I ' m sorry , had an industrial hygienist on board?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
6 A. No .
7 Q . Sir, we went over all the various products just
8 a few minutes ago , and I forgot to ask you . As you sit
9 here today , are you aware of UGL ever putting any warning
10 on any of its products concerning the potential health
11 hazards of asbestos?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
13 answered and objection to the form .
14 A. I ' m not aware of any point .
15 Q. Sir , I know this is a difficult question , but
16 if a warning was to be put on one of these bags, who would
17 have initiated such an effort?
18 MS . NANDARANO : Objection to the form . It
19 calls for him to completely speculate .
20 Q. Well , I can do this : Was there anyone in the
21 plant that worked on the labeling of the packaging?
22 A . You ' re referring to the 1970 period?
23 Q. Exactly . Thank you , sir , I am .
24 A . There would have been the advertising manager
25 would have worked on the labeling of products at that
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1 time, yes .
2 Q . And who was that person?
3 A . A gentleman by the name of Jim Seamans .
4 Q . Is Mr . Seamans still with us?
5 A . I'm not certain of that .
6 Q . Do you know when the last time you saw Mr .
7 Seamans?
8 A . No, sir .
9 Q . When asbestos, when a number of these products
10 were reformulated to remove asbestos, do you know if any
11 effort was made by UGL to contact any of its customers or
12 distributors regarding the potential health hazards of
13 asbestos?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form . You
15 can answer .
16 A . No, sir, I'm not aware of any .
17 Q . I need to go back for a second . I don't mean
18 to jump around but -- the raw asbestos that came in the
19 rail car, do you know what company or companies shipped
20 that or supplied that?
21 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
22 Q . In other words, you indicated -- I'll rephrase
23 my question . That you remember a company called Carey and
24 a company called Johns-Manville supplied the asbestos
25 through rail car . My question is : Do you know if there
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1 was a distributor that was involved in actually selling
2 you that raw fiber, or did that fiber come directly from
3 Johns-Manville or Carey Canada ; only if you know?
4 A . I don't know that .
5 Q . Have you ever heard of a company called
6 Thompson Heyworth, Heyward, (phonetic) I'm sorry, out of
7 Kansas City?
8 A . No, sir .
9 Q . Have you ever heard of a company known as THAN?
10 It's spelled capital T, capital H, capital A, capital N?
11 THAN?
12 A . No, sir .
13 Q . Sir, were you familiar in the early '70s with a
14 Consumer Products Commission -- strike that .
15 Are you aware of a Consumer Products Commission
16 in the mid or late '70s issuing any rules or regulations
17 concerning the removal of asbestos from joint compound?
18 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form . He can
19 answer .
20 A . No, sir .
21 Q . Have you ever heard of a physician by the name
22 of Dr . Selikoff?
23 A . No, sir .
24 Q . Sir, are you familiar with something today
25 known as threshold limit value?
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1 A . Yes, sir .
2 Q . And tell me today what your knowledge of that
3 is?
4 A . Threshold limit value is the value that's
5 placed on the exposure value that's placed on a chemical .
6 The organization that gives that value is an organization
7 by the name -- with the name of American Conference on
8 Government Industrial Hygienists, and they evaluate
9 chemicals, most of the chemicals that are used in the
10 United States, and they will give each of the chemicals a
11 exposure limit for an 8-hour period .
12 Q . They're commonly known as PEL?
13 A . That would be permissible exposure limit, and
14 that is the same as an exposure, occupational exposure
15 limit that is put out by OSHA .
16 Q . I know we're a little south of New York where I
17 come from . New York follows something called the MAC, the
18 maximum allowable concentration as opposed to the TLV . My
19 question for you here in Pennsylvania, if you know, is it
20 the MAC standard, the maximum allowable concentration or
21 is it the 8-hour threshold limit, if you know?
22 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form and
23 objection for a legal conclusion .
24 Q . Do you understand the difference, sir?
25 A . I understand the difference .
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1 Q . I'm just wondering if you know if Pennsylvania
2 today, and then if you know I'll go back to earlier time,
3 if this is a MAC state or the 8-hour average state?
4 MS . MANDARANO : Same objection .
5 A . I would say 8-hour value state .
6 Q . Okay . And it sounds like, sir, you're a little
7 bit familiar with OSHA, more than a little bit . What I'd
8 like to ask you to do if you could for me, sir, is I
9 actually have the regulation that took place or that was
10 in place in 1972 concerning asbestos, and it's marked
11 Exhibit 4 . Can I hand that to you?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Just for the record, as
13 was the case with the last witness, I'm going
14 to object to counsel's testifying as to any
15 regulations, and object to the form and object
16 to any questions calling for a legal conclusion
17 based on .
18 MR . COMERFORD : You have a standing
19 objection based on every question I have from
20 OSHA .
21 Q . Sir, if you can, I'd like you to just -- if you
22 need to even to suspend the video to take a second to look
23 at it . I just have a few couple questions for you about
24 it, some of these regulations that were in place . And I
25 think you testified that OSHA, that you subsequently
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1 learned that OSHA was in place in 1972 , and I think you
2 indicated , correct me if I ' m wrong , that you learned that
3 once you started your career in safety with the plant ; is
4 that fair to say?
5 A. That's correct .
6 Q . Now , according to Exhibit 4 and it ' s under
7 section -- I ' m looking at OSHA section 1910 . 1001 . And
8 under B , it says that this standard was in effect July
9 7th , 1972 . Do you see that , sir?
10 A. I do .
11 Q . And here ' s what I want to ask you : At this
12 time period , shortly thereafter , was UGL manufacturing
13 some products that contained asbestos?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the fo rm .
15 A. I can ' t say whether they were or not .
16 Q. I have some Answers to Interrogatories , sir ,
17 that shows for example that the joint cement was
18 manufactured up until 1975 by UGL .
19 MS . MANDARANO : I ' m going to object -- I 'm
20 sorry . Do you want to finish your question?
21 Q. I was going to -- would that refresh your
22 recollection or would you have any reason to quarrel with
23 that?
24 MS . MANDARANO : I ' m going to object to the
25 form of the question and to counsel testifying .
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1 Q . Would you have any reason to disagree with
2 that?
3 A . I have no -- nothing to stop me from agreeing
4 with that . I don't know that personally, though .
5 Q . Okay . But you do remember or -- well, when do
6 you believe asbestos was removed from some of the products
7 then? I thought, and if I'm mischaracterizing your
8 testimony I'm trying not to do that, and I know your
9 counsel will correct me, but I thought your testimony was
10 that some of the products you believe contained asbestos
11 up until the mid or late '70s?
12 MS . MANDARANO : Objection . That's a total
13 mischaracterization of his testimony .
14 Q . It is? When -- give me the time period you
15 think that the asbestos was removed?
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection asked and
17 answered . He went through this . He can answer
18 it again .
19 A . I believe the way I answered that question was
20 that the asbestos was removed not all at once from all of
21 our products, but it certainly would have been removed
22 within a year's period, and I was referring at that time
23 to a year from the 1972, so it would have been somewhere
24 around 1973, that year .
25 Q . Would these product cards that we talked about
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1 earlier , and I think your counsel indicated that they were
2 produced , and I ' m going to look for them . Would that
3 assist us in determining when some of these products
4 stopped containing asbestos?
5 MS . MANDARANO : Counselor , are you
6 questioning me? I ' m not under oath .
7 MR . COMERFORD : No . Well , I ' m just
8 wondering . Maybe we should just suspend the
9 video because I got Mark back here and let ' s
10 see if we can figure out maybe a stipulation as
11 to when asbestos was taken out of some of these
12 products . I don ' t want to challenge him on it .
13 I ' ve got Answers to Interrogatories . Let ' s get
14 off the video and see if we can agree .
15 (Whereupon , there is a recess taken . )
16 VIDEOGRAPHER : Back on the video at
17 4 : 10 : 40 .
18 Q. Sir , do you know if there ' s any invoices or
19 documents that would show how much raw asbestos was
20 purchased either from JM or Carey?
21 A. No , sir , I don ' t .
22 Q. Have you ever seen what documents that would
23 show that?
24 A. No , sir .
25 Q . So I assume it ' s safe to say you don ' t know if
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1 those documents even exist?
2 A. I don ' t know that they exist , that ' s correct .
3 Q . If you had to look for them and had to go to
4 one place of the plant to look , do you have an idea where
5 they might be located?
6 A . As we speak , no, I wouldn ' t . Logical would be
7 that you would go to the purchasing department and see if
8 they had any back records on it , but again , I do not know
9 of the existence of any of these records .
10 Q. Okay . Let me ask you back on some of these
11 OSHA issues , sir . Do you know whether or not at any time
12 while you were employed at UGL if a protective equipment ,
13 specifically respirators or masks , were ever given to any
14 employees on the manufacturing floor?
15 A. No , sir , none were given .
16 Q. Let me ask you if any special clothing for
17 people who were working with asbestos were ever given to
18 any of the employees on the floor?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form , but you
20 can answer .
21 A. No , sir .
22 Q . Change rooms, so people could change their
23 clothes before going home, was that ever provided?
24 A. No , sir .
25 Q . Laundering of clothes so employees could
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1 actually launder their clothes to ensure that
2 asbestos-free clothing was brought home ; was that ever a
3 service provided by UGL?
4 A. No , sir .
5 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
6 Q . Sir , on this regulation which is before you ,
7 I ' d like you to turn to page 4, if you could for me .
8 MS . MANDARANO : Just so the reco r d
9 reflects , my objection still stands that it had
10 nothing to do with the conversation off the
11 record .
12 MR . COMERFORD : Co mple t ely .
13 A. What page are we on?
14 Q. The fourth page of that exhibit you have . Do
15 you see where it says caution signs and labels?
16 A. Yes , sir .
17 Q . My specific question is this : Was a caution
18 s i gn ever posted at UGL regarding the potential health
19 hazards of asbestos on any of the walls , or anywhere in
20 the plant for that matter?
21 A . No , sir .
22 Q . Same question for sign specification? Do you
23 see where it says sign specification?
24 A. Yes , sir .
25 Q. Well , strike that .
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1 We already addressed earlier , I think you
2 testified that there were no caution labels regarding
3 potential health hazards of asbestos on any of the
4 packaging for materials sold by UGL that contain asbestos ;
5 is that correct , sir?
6 A. That ' s co r rect .
7 Q . And were you ever aware , sir , that under the
8 OSHA regulation starting in 1972 , that bags containing
9 asbestos required a caution label that said the following :
10 Caution : Contains asbestos fibers , avoid creating dust .
11 Breathing asbestos dust may cause serious bodily harm .
12 Did you ever know that, that that was a
13 requirement under OSHA , the regulation that ' s in your
14 hands?
15 MS . MANDARANO : In addition to the
16 standard objection, objection to counsel
17 testifying .
18 A. I would not have known that then and quite
19 frankly this is the first time I ' ve seen this particular
20 standard that I have in front of me .
21 Q. Okay . Has a medical monitoring program ever
22 been set up for any of the employees of UGL?
23 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form ; you
24 can answer .
25 Q . And the monitoring would be specifically
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1 looking for any lung abnormalities, which would include
2 asbestosis?
3 A . There is a monitoring, as we speak . In 1972,
4 there would not have been . Are you referring to '72 or
5 are you referring to the present?
6 Q . I'll say 1972 to 1980, were any x-ray programs
7 or medical monitoring programs ever set up or established?
8 A . To the best of my knowledge, no, there was not .
9 Q . And do you know either way on whether or not
10 OSHA requires that to be done for people who actually work
11 with asbestos-containing materials on the manufacturing
12 side?
13 A . I do now ; then I did not .
14 Q . And is there a reason or has UGL with your
15 knowledge now that it's required, has UGL ever set up a
16 medical monitoring program to assist its retirees or older
17 employees to see -- to monitor their condition for
18 possible asbestos-related diseases?
19 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
20 A. No .
21 Q . Has it ever been discussed to consider?
22 A . Not in my presence, no .
23 Q . Sir, do you know if Liberty Mutual ever
24 provided Workers' Compensation coverage to any of the its
25 employees?
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1 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form and
2 relevancy .
3 A . No, I don't know that .
4 Q . Do you know whether any employees of UGL have
5 ever filed a Workers' Compensation claim regarding claimed
6 exposure to asbestos?
7 A . No, sir .
8 Q . Sir, once you, you personally, became aware of
9 the potential health hazards of asbestos and you addressed
10 this earlier, reading in some of the trade journals, did
11 you take it upon yourself to share that information with
12 anyone at the plant or was that already being discussed?
13 A . That would have already been discussed .
14 Q . And as you sit here today you just don't
15 remember with whom that was discussed with?
16 A . Oh, I remember who I discussed it with . It
17 would have been with Robert Toothill, and it would have
18 been with the laboratory manager, Joe Manzo .
19 MS . MANDARANO : He already testified to
20 this .
21 Q . Okay . And in relation to the OSHA regulation
22 that's before you, do you know if that conversation was
23 before OSHA or after, and the date I'm focusing on is
24 1972? So these conversations you had were with Mr .
25 Toothill and the other people, was it before OSHA, if you
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1 know?
2 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form , but
3 you can answer .
4 A . It would -- since -- at that period of time I
5 was not aware of anything about OSHA , so I would not have
6 been aware of this standard in front of me , so I would not
7 have discussed anything .
8 Q. Let me do it this way . You started working
9 with your good friend, Mr . Toothill , in what year , sir?
10 A . 19 -- well, I would say probably 1969 .
11 Q. Okay . And do you know how long you had been
12 working with him, approximately, when you became aware of
13 the health hazards of asbestos and then sat down and at
14 least discussed it in some way with him?
15 A. No .
16 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
17 A. I wouldn ' t even hazard a guess at that .
18 Q . Was it the 1970s or 1980s , sir?
19 A . In that respect , 1970s .
20 Q. And was it before or after UGL was formulating
21 their products to remove asbestos?
22 A. It would have been before .
23 Q . And then can you give me a time period when you
24 believed you had this conversation with Mr . Toothill to
25 the time there ' s no more asbestos in the products . Was it
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1 within a year , two years , three years , four years , five
2 years?
3 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to the form .
4 A. To the best of my recollection now , I would say
5 that a fai r answer to that would have bee n within the
6 year .
7 Q. Was there ever a library anywhere on site which
8 was sort of a repository for trade journals and books and
9 what have you?
10 A. No , sir .
11 Q. Do you know if UGL has a record retention
12 policy in place , sir?
13 A . For what type of records are we referring to?
14 Q. I ' m just looking for any type of record
15 retention policy UGL has ever had in place?
16 MS . MANDARANO : Ever in the history or --
17 MR . COMERFORD : Ever .
18 Q . Because what I ' m looking for , obviously , you ' ve
19 heard of documents regarding, for example , Johns - Manville
20 sale of asbestos . I ' m just wondering if there was ever an
21 in place retention policy that you know of that UGL would
22 follow?
23 A . There was no formal policy . Every department
24 had their -- at their discretion .
25 Q . Do you know if there was ever a board of
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1 directors fo r UGL?
2 A. There is a board of directors , yes .
3 Q. Has that -- is that a new function of the
4 company or has there always been , as far as you know , a
5 board of directors?
6 A . As far as I know, there ' s always been a board
7 of directors .
8 Q. And who are the individuals on the board of
9 directors , sir?
10 A. I have no idea .
11 Q . Do you know if those minutes -- if they even
12 keep minutes of the board of directors?
13 A. I have no idea .
14 Q . Have you ever heard of something called the
15 Gypsum Association?
16 A . No .
17 MS . MANDARANO : Objection ; asked and
18 answered .
19 MR . COMERFORD : You ' re right . I did ask
20 that . I ' m sorry .
21 Q. Sir , I ' m not sure I have -- let me ask you
22 about just a few individuals here and I think I ' m done . M
23 period C period MacKinnon?
24 A. Yes , sir .
25 Q . What role , if any does he have at UGL?
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1 A. He is the chairman of the board at UGL .
2 MS . MANDARANO : Counsel , again , Mr .
3 MacKinnon again has Alzheimer ' s disease .
4 MR . COMERFORD : That ' s right , I ' m sorry .
5 Q. Did you ever discuss the potential health
6 hazards of asbestos with him?
7 A. No , sir .
8 Q. Tho m as R . White . Is he the president of UGL
9 today?
10 A. That ' s correct .
11 Q . And do you know approximately what year he
12 started with UGL?
13 A. No , sir , I don ' t know the approximate year .
14 Q. And is he someone that you interact with and
15 see on a regular basis?
16 A. At the present time, yes, I see him on a
17 regular basis .
18 Q. Sir , was there a point of time where the Drylok
19 materials -- I just have a few questions . We ' re almost
20 done . That waterproofing material, was that ever in a
21 powdered form initially?
22 A. Yes , sir , it was .
23 Q. Okay . And did there come a time that it came
24 in a premixed condition?
25 A. Yes , sir .
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1 Q. Do you k n ow what year that occurred?
2 A. The ready mix -- your ready mix sealer that you
3 mentioned before was the first of our so - called ready mix
4 waterproofing compounds . That would have been in
5 production before I came with the company in 1968 . As to
6 what year , I can ' t - - I can ' t answer that .
7 Q. Let me ask you this then : Was th e Drylok
8 waterproofing material did - - was a dry powdered form and
9 a premixed material ever manufactured at the same time?
10 A. Yes , sir .
11 Q. Okay . So , when you started at the plant , I 'm
12 sorry, I ' m forgetting, was it 196 - -
13 A . ' 68 .
14 Q. That ' s a good year . That was my birth ,
15 birthday .
16 A . God love you . I have socks older than you .
17 Q . In 1968 , was the powdered material being
18 manufactured?
19 A. Yes , sir .
20 Q . For how long a time period was the powdered
21 material being manufactured for?
22 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form .
23 A . I can ' t give you the exact year of production,
24 but my understanding is it started in the late ' 50s .
25 Q. I meant what year did it stop? For how long
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1 was the powdered material being manufactured while
2 you were there ; the whole time?
3 A . Oh, the whole time .
4 Q . Oh, okay . Did the powdered form that was used
5 for waterproofing, did that contain asbestos?
6 MS . MANDARANO : It's been answered, but
7 you can answer again .
8 A . No, sir .
9 Q . Is there -- did the -- did the pre mix contain
10 asbestos?
11 A . Yes, sir .
12 Q . Is there a reason that the pre mix contained
13 asbestos and the dry mix didn't?
14 MS . MANDARANO : Objection to form, but you
15 can answer .
16 A . Asbestos was in the premixed products to help
17 it -- help it bridge your minor stress cracks in a masonry
18 substrate . The powdered would not have had that problem .
19 MR . COMERFORD : I think I'm done . Sir,
20 thank you for your time .
21 THE WITNESS : Not at all .
22 VIDEOGRAPHER : No more questions . We're
23 off the video, 4 :24 :54 .
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1 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
2
3 I, Kimberly S . Plummer , a Notary
4 Public for and within the State of New York , do
5 hereby certify that prior to the commencement
6 of the exam in ation
7 RICHARD BARAKO
8 was sworn by me to testify to the truth, the
9 whole truth and nothing but truth .
10 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that the
11 foregoing is a true and accurate transcript of
12 the testimony as taken stenographically by and
13 before me at the time , place and on the date
14 hereinbefore set forth .
15 I DO FURTHER CERTI F Y that I am
16 neither a relative of , nor employee , nor
17 attorney, nor counsel for any of the parties to
18 this action and that I am neither a relative
19 nor employee of such attorney or counsel , and
20 that I am not financially interested in the
21 action .
22
23
24 N o tary Public
25
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1 I have read the foregoing transcript of my
2 deposition and I find it to be true and
3 accurate to the best of my knowledge and
4 belief .
5
6
7
8
9 RICHARD BARAKO
10
11
12
13 Sworn and subscribed to before me on
14 this day
15 of 2004 .
16
17
18
19 Notary
20 My Commission Expires
21
22
23
24
25
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