Rich Schefren Interview Series:
With Coaching Client Jim Edwards
RICH: Welcome, everyone. Tonight’s call is with Jim Edwards --
JIM: Or this morning’s call or you’re never really sure? When are you actually doing
this?
RICH: Exactly. Depending on where you are in the world will depend on the time. But
it’s going to be an amazing call because Jim’s business really transformed over
the last year and a half. Jim is going to give you an insider perspective on exactly
how you can do the same. So, with that said, Jim, why don’t you introduce
yourself and kind of give everybody -- I would imagine almost everybody knows
who you are but for those who don’t, introduce yourself and we can just kind of
dive into what your business was like when you first started.
JIM: My name is Jim Edwards. I have published a number of e-books. I sell a course
called “Mini-site Creator.” I’m the co-creator of “Website Video Secrets.” I
publish a couple of blogs, one at www.ivegottatellyou.com/blog. I’ve been now
infamous for something called the Friday Night Smack Down. I have a site called
“The Net Reporter.” I have just a lot of different things; I sell in a bunch of
different niche markets. I started out with e-books, moved into multi-media and
now doing a lot with streaming video on the Web. So that is kind of who I am.
RICH: All right. You’re involved in a lot of stuff. I guess that is the big takeaway there,
and that is why people know you because you’ve had your hand in so many
different elements of Internet marketing and you’ve kind of been on the forefront
of new technologies and you’ve been the guy who reduces stuff down to really
simple step-by-step when people get kind of confused. And you are also not afraid
to call a spade a spade, and I think a lot of people really enjoy that about you
because you just tell people how it is.
JIM: Well, that’s a very good summation.
RICH: All right, cool. So, why don’t we talk about where your business was before you
entered into my coaching program?
JIM: Well, basically, where my business was, was I thought my business was very
successful and relatively speaking to other people’s businesses, it was very
successful. When you consider that the business that I had built up was a business
2:17 that enabled me to get out of the trailer park where I was living and have a couple
of homes, and those types of things. It was doing very, very well. But the problem
was that it was totally dependent upon me. I was doing everything. I was doing
the accounting, I was doing product development, I was doing the Web mastering,
http://www.strategicprofits.com
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I was doing the traffic generation, I was doing the PR, I was doing the newsletter
generation, I was doing everything except for software programming, I was doing
it. So therefore I was working 14 hours a day and it was getting worse and worse.
I knew I needed some help but I wasn’t really sure -- I had no clue how to find
help. It’s kind of like the drowning guy hanging on to the boulder that’s pulling
him down because it gives him a sense of security. But what I did when I felt like
I either wanted to grow my business or change anything was that I had to find
ways to do it myself. So I actually got extremely efficient at doing things. In other
words, what might take someone else a week to do, I could get done in two hours.
But instead of letting that free me up and have some free time, I just kept
grabbing more and more things to do because the business had to grow and I
wanted to bring in more revenue and get more web sites. So I created this
monstrosity that I was at the center of and it was kind of like this one man band
on crack that was keeping everything going.
3:52
So I got a part-time assistant. And luckily she has a strong will and a thick skin,
so she was able to put up with my craziness when I kept changing directions on
her and we never had any kind of a real set thing that she was doing, which in the
end maybe was a good thing because she was able to learn a whole lot of stuff
real fast because I kept switching her from one thing to another because I thought
that procedure was something that was done to you in a hospital, not a system that
operated in your business.
And then -- it was funny; I was sitting in my hot tub reading a book that a good
friend of mine, Chris [Savodowski] sent me. It was a book by Dan Kennedy. It
was basically a time management book. Let me backtrack one second.
My wife came to me and she said, you know, I hate my job and we’re making
enough money here and you’re busy, there’s got to be something that I can do
here for you, because she had been doing the accounting for me part-time. The
only accounting I would really let her do would be writing checks and then she
would balance the checkbook. But as far a logging checks and keeping track of all
the money and doing all that stuff, I kept that to myself. But the stupid thing is
that I was doing -- it’s weird. I wasn’t even doing it a computer. I was doing it in
5:24
a green ledger notebook. I did that for a couple of years and my accountant was
like, what in the hell are you doing? You do computers, right? And I was like,
yah. He said, why aren’t you doing your accounting in spreadsheet? I said, uh,
because I’ve always been doing it this way in a green accounting notebook.
So, anyway, -- I feel like I am on Dr. Phil. It is like one big confession.
RICH: Get real, Jim.
JIM: But as everybody can tell, I’m holding back and not giving any details. So my
wife came to me and it was June, three years ago, and she said, you know, I want
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to quit my job because I loved working at the police department but politics and
all this other stuff is happening. She was making decent money but relatively
speaking to what the Internet business was doing, it really wasn’t that big a deal.
She was basically there for the benefits.
6:20
So, I said, sure, you can come home and I’ll let you do all this stuff. Well, a funny
thing happened. She came home and I wouldn’t let her do anything. She’s sitting
in her office and I wouldn’t let her do anything. She was begging me to let her do
stuff and the only thing she had to do was what she was doing before which was
when I would tell her twice a month send these checks to these people. And it was
insane.
So there was this one day; I don’t remember what day it was but I remember the
day, if that makes sense. I had spent six hours going through my email and
filtering out all the SPAM and I was like totally exhausted. It took me like three
hours to get through all my email. I’m like, what the hell am I doing going
through three hours of email and then I am exhausted. I can’t get all the other
stuff I need to get done completed that day. So then I said, okay, this is what I am
going to do.
So now we fast forward to where I brought this up. I was sitting in the hot tub, I
was reading this book. And I don’t even remember what that hell the book said,
but I came to the realization that I needed to let other people start doing some
stuff for me. So I said to my wife, I said, okay, I’m going to let you start sorting
the email. In other words, I’m going to let you start sorting the SPAM.
7:40
RICH: And that was a big step.
JIM: Actually it was a huge step for me. I really, in a lot of respects, and to be frank
with you I still have a long way to go. If I could get out of own way, I could be --
I honestly believe that we could be a $300,000 to $400,000 a month business - if I
would get out of my own way. So I am learning how to do that. I am recovering.
If it’s a 12-step program, I guess I am at step seven, but I used to be at step minus
10, so relatively speaking to where we were, I’m doing a lot better. I’m not
smoking as much crack as I was.
I apologize to all the crack addicts.
8:21
The bottom line is this: I knew that I had to do something different but I didn’t
know what. I used to stand up on stage and be proud of the fact that my business -
- I would stand up there and say, yeah, my business generates $400,000 a year and
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I have no employees. Now I look back on that and I’m like, damn, what a
dummy! I was basically standing up there proud of the fact that I didn’t know
how to play with other people in the sandbox.
So I’m sitting there and I’ve got a part-time assistant, I’ve got my full-time wife. I
won’t really let them do anything and so basically I had to get to the point where
enough was enough and I guess I was almost ready for a nervous breakdown. And
so that’s what my business was, if that makes sense. I was real -- I still am real
good and I have to be careful -- I was so good at doing it myself that I didn’t think
that anybody else could do it and one of the things that I learned from being in
your coaching program was it isn’t about you have to be the best one to do it. It’s
can you find other people or systems that can do it as well as it needs to get done
to accomplish the objective and that’s good enough.
9:43
Anyway, that’s a pretty good -- I mean, I could go on for another 30 minutes
about where the business was. It was a successful business. It was successful
monetarily but then if you look back on it, it wasn’t really successful. It’s all
measured in relative terms. Relative to where I was slaving away for $1,500 for a
guy I didn’t like who ultimately fired me, yes, it was mega-successful. Relatively
speaking for quality of life and my own sanity, I was driving myself to an early
grave. In fact I started having recurrences of my heart condition because I was so
stressed out. I was just stressed out for other reasons.
RICH: Right. I don’t even know if you remember what you said to me when you joined
the program. Do you remember that?
JIM: No.
RICH: Okay. I don’t know if you still felt this way, but I made this guarantee that your
business would double and you would reduce the amount of time that you were
working. You said, Rich, if you could just reduce the amount of time I am
working, even if I have to take a pay cut, I’ll be your biggest fan.
JIM: Yeah, yeah. Yes, and I really, honest to god, felt that way at the time. And then
you asked me to take the pay cut and I told you to go jump in the lake. No, I’m
just kidding.
RICH: No, I told you that you didn’t have to. But yeah, that’s the thing. And what people
don’t understand is that -- if people feel any sense of overwhelm in a small
business not making that much money and they are doing it wrong, then if they
get lucky and if they have the determination and the will to actually grow their
business, it’s only going to get worse.
11:25
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JIM: And that’s the thing. I will agree with you 100 percent because what happened
was the “better things got,” the worse things got for me because it just meant
more work.
RICH: Yeah, because every -- and this is actually -- this brings up a really good point,
that it’s even outside of just business building. It really has to do with everything
related to business in general, and that is that anything that is a problem when you
are a small business is only magnified when you are a bigger, more successful
business. So if you have a problem saying no to joint ventures as a small business,
well, guess what? When you grow and become more successful, you’re going to
be approached more often and it’s going to be a bigger problem. If you have a
problem trying to do it all yourself, then as your business grows, it’s going to
become a bigger problem. Every element of business in general, if it’s a problem -
- if you jump at every opportunity when you’re a smaller business, guess what?
When you are bigger and more successful, there is going to be a lot more
opportunities thrown at you and you –
12:30
JIM: Right. Let me give you just a real quickie metaphor for that, because I love pithy
metaphors. It’s kind of like alcohol. If you’re a mean drunk, the more alcohol you
get the meaner you’re going to be. Does that make sense?
RICH: Sure, yeah.
JIM: So, if you’re a bad business owner and don’t understand systems and procedures
and understanding how to create plug-and-play things in your business, as your
business grows, if you can actually create a business that will grow, it’s only
going to get worse the bigger you get, just like handing an alcoholic the keys to a
liquor store instead of just the liquor cabinet.
13:17
RICH: Right.
JIM: It’s going to get worse. And it gets worse geometrically, meaning it doesn’t get
worse a little bit; it gets worse a whole lot in a shorter period of time.
RICH: Yeah, and you know that’s like really one of the crux issues that a lot of people
don’t realize, that it’s always there, and so the earlier you nip that in the bud, the
better off you are because it also helps you grow. The fact that you were able to
accomplish so much even working under the constraints that you were working is
just a testament to your will power, to the ability that you talked about, about
being extremely efficient and just using your raw intelligence to figure out ways
to get it done. But ultimately that will only take you so far and it takes you to a
position where you’re the center of your business universe and that means that
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everything’s got to pass through you and that means that you don’t ever have a
break and with no down time you can’t strategize, you can’t really grow you
business the right way.
JIM: Correct.
RICH: Cool. So why don’t we fast forward to today, where you’re at, and then we can
kind of just like, you know, you can kind of give some people maybe a few of the
takeaways that really help you make that progression. But before you go there,
why don’t you tell people where you are today.
14:32
JIM: Well, basically where we are now is not -- what I want to preface this by saying is
that, you know, there’s no such thing as perfect. There’s only good, better and
best. You have to understand where you want to be before you can actually get
there. So, I had to decide what we wanted our business to look like. I did that and
then with pretty quick speed things start falling into place. So we went from my
full-time wife and a part-time assistant to now we have three full-time employees
and we have a lot of outsource partners that we use on a regular basis. By the
way, our business doubled as far as gross revenue but more importantly even
though I was spending more money to have other people help us, our net revenue
actually went up in a higher percentage. I’m not going to say what that was, but
let’s just say that our income basically doubled and my accountant was shocked
even though I was spending more money I was making more money, if that
makes sense.
15:54
RICH: Yeah, it makes total sense. Let me interrupt you just for a second because I think
that is a big takeaway for people, and that is that every system -- and this is kind
of a high-level concept but it’s important and hopefully people get the gist of it --
every system has a constraint. You can look at your whole business as a system.
Generally what I find with most entrepreneurs is, the ones that are working really,
really hard, the reason they are working so hard is they’re the constraint. In other
words, their business is going to do as much business as they are willing to do the
work because that’s the way they set it up. What changes the whole paradigm,
what makes you able to actually make a lot more and work less is to remove
yourself as being the constraint by removing yourself from having to touch
everything, oversee everything and do everything. And when you do that, what
happens is that the business can grow without you having to do everything, and
when that happens, you end up working less and the business makes more. It’s not
like some complicated thing. What it really is is that the way people structure
their businesses is is that they always structure it in a way where they are the
constraint.
17:02
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JIM: Well, and I think that’s part -- it’s not only are you the constraint but it’s so that
you can be in the control. I think a lot of that comes from the entrepreneurial
mindset of especially someone who is successful as an entrepreneur, you know, I
made it, I put it together, I’m the one that made it happen and so everybody needs
to be under my control. So that’s really, you know, the second phase that you
have to go through once you do learn how to outsource and systematize, you have
to get the hell out of the way of your own system and your own outsourcing. You
need to be in control but you don’t need to be controlling.
17:47
That’s something--I think that’s really where we are now is that sometimes—you
know, it’s a good thing I have a patient wife because I would have killed me by
now. Because now its kind of like, wow, I’ve got the system in place, the system
runs and it’s working so I need to not tinker with it; I need to move on to the next
thing. That’s why your business objective and your business vision is so
important because now your job shifts from being the chief cook and bottle
washer to being the person who figures out, okay, what menu—let’s talk to the
customers. What kind of menu are they looking for? What other locations do we
need to open up? Should we diversify into another line of this and that and the
other? It’s a totally different thing. The longer you are immersed in that process of
being the chief cook and bottle washer, the harder it is going to be for you to
transition into a business owner role.
So, I will just say that’s the thing that I’m struggling with right now, not really
struggling but just having to learn it, it’s a process but I would say that we’re in a
lot better position now than we were before. I’m just learning lessons so it’s
nothing for me now to hand something off to somebody and say handle it and to
trust that it will get handled and then I just check to make sure that it was handled
which is something that was a huge step for me.
So now the next step that I’m dealing with is being the visionary for the business
and working, it’s a very trite phrase but it’s true, working on the business rather
than in the business.
19:37
So, what would be some take a ways that people could get from my experience?
Number one, you need to almost retrain your mind to think in terms when you
think of something that needs to get done. Your first thought should not be how
can I get this done myself but it should be how can I cause this to get done for the
least amount of time and energy and effort expense on my part. Does that make
sense?
RICH: That makes total sense. Let’s break that down for people. It’s like if you ask
yourself how I can get this done. What happens is that it gets on your to-do list,
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maybe it gets done right away, maybe it doesn’t. If it does get done right away it
sets a president that in the future also you’re going to be the one who gets it done.
So you’re never really putting into your business any type of ability for it to grow
without you. Whereas, when you ask the second question, how can this get done
without me, when you solve that problem and you actually address it and you now
have a solution to it, that doesn’t only relieve you this single time, it’s now
something that can get done without you forever, once you’ve worked out all the
kinks. When that happens, now that’s another thing that you can cross off your list
of stuff and never have to have it put back on your list. It allows you to add more
stuff.
JIM: That’s the thing. Let’s take a step back. I had a conversation with a friend of mine
one time who asked me, he said, let me ask you this, if you ever could get to the
point where you only had to work two to four hours a day, could you do it? What
he meant by that was, knowing me to be the recovering workaholic that I am, my
answer to him was, you know, I don’t know if I could do that. There’s a lot of
stuff that you have to work on but the bottom line is that if you don’t let yourself
get to that stage and you do set things up so that you have systems, I think you’ll
do a lot better. In other words, don’t be like me. Don’t be like I used to be from
the beginning. It’s like if I could go back and do things over, what would I do
differently? Well, number one, I would never let at the beginning of my business,
let customers have one-on-one email access with me. Not because I didn’t want to
communicate with them but because it made it so much harder to implement a
customer service system because all of a sudden one day they couldn’t email me
directly and it wasn’t me responding to them. If I had been smart, I would have
had a situation where I had a customer system where even if it was me managing
it, it didn’t look like it was me because then I could outsource or I could plug a
person or a system into that part of my business.
Would I still be my own Web master? I probably would not. I would have found
somebody that I could have had be an integral part of my business on a piece by
piece basis and later on maybe on a salaried type basis or a retainer basis to be my
Web master because I’m not the best Web master in the world. But, I’m the best
one that I knew and the price was right when I first got started but knowing what I
know now, I would hire somebody else to do my Web work which now I do have
somebody who does my Web work for me.
23:29
And there are things—what you want to do is get to the point where there are
things happening in your business that you don’t know how to do them. The best
thing you can do is have a business where you know what needs to get done but
you don’t know how to do it. So, therefore, it forces you to plug people and
systems into the business.
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If that was the one biggest take away that I had from being in the coaching
program, it’s that. It’s being comfortable with the fact that I don’t know how to do
it and that there are other people who know how to do it and that the world won’t
come to an end if I’m not the one doing it. In fact, if I release that and I learn how
to manage it by having a system for following up on it, I’ll actually come out
ahead because I can concentrate on the stuff that is my strengths. Does that make
sense?
RICH: Yeah, it makes total sense. I know that some people will hear that and they’ll fear,
they’ll have chills because the concept of not being able to control or not being
able to do it yourself seems like you would be at the mercy of other people but
that’s just because they haven’t really fully understood that you can develop a
system so that you’re not completely reliant on any single person and that you can
have a back-up plan, you can have a plan B, plan C so that what happens is that if
the “A” person disappoints or is not around, then it immediately goes to the “B”
person or the “C” person.
JIM: But what that comes down to is understanding that everything can be boiled down
to a system. The one where it really made sense to me and now it totally makes
sense for me is software. Since I can’t write software, I have to let a programmer
write my scripts and write my programs. So, all I do is I figure out what I want it
to do and then I plug the programmer in and if the programmer doesn’t work or if
it’s not appropriate then you can go to Elance or Rent A Coder and you find a
programmer. Then you have a couple of these guys that you’re comfortable with,
that you send stuff to and then you plug them in. The same goes with the Web
master, the same goes with setting up payment solutions, the same goes with
everything. If you can isolate it and make it, isolate all the elements of the system
from beginning to end, then your job as the business owner is to plug the people
into it or plug the systems into it.
26:03
That became real for me after being in the coaching program. I knew it on an
intellectual level but I didn’t know it on a gut level until after I worked with you.
Now, it’s to the point where I re-changed my thinking.
RICH: That’s so integral because unless you start thinking differently, the business that
you set up obviously is not going to be any different.
JIM: Correct.
RICH: It’s one thing to know it on an intellectual level; it’s a whole other thing to
actually act that way and be that way. There’s a big difference, the two. A lot of
business people have read the book, “The One-Minute Manager” but there’s a big
difference between reading “The One-Minute Manager” and being a One-Minute
Manager. Reading the book, unfortunately for most people, isn’t enough to
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actually make that transition. You have to work with someone and it’s a process;
just like you said, it’s a growing process. It’s not easy, the lights just don’t turn on
and everything all of a sudden becomes simple. You actually have to work at it
and change the way you do things and at times it’s a little bit uncomfortable but
you know that there’s a bigger reason for doing it all and as you start seeing
progress, it becomes easier and easier to do that.
JIM: Correct.
RICH: Very cool! Any other last minute tidbits that you want to give people before we
wrap this interview up?
JIM: I would say I’ll give you an endorsement and then I will point out one thing that I
wish you had done differently or I will tell them the one thing I wish you had
done differently upfront. The one thing I wish you had done differently upfront
was maybe to yell at me a little more but maybe I respond better to that. I will say
that you, of anyone I’ve met as far as understanding how to look at a business and
help someone who—because I got thrown out of William & Mary Business
School, I was literally thrown out of business school because I was told I had no
business acumen. Whatever the hell acumen meant, I had to go look it up.
Basically, the guy was telling me that I had no business aptitude and that I should
go be a history teacher. There’s nothing wrong with being a history teacher but
they don’t make any money.
28:30
The bottom line though is that you are very good at explaining: A, why people
have to operate with a series of systems and procedures and every business in that
respect is exactly the same but then you’re very good at teaching and explaining
how to apply those principles to my specific business. So I will give you those
kudos.
RICH: Well, thank you Jim.
JIM: The point that I would want everybody to come across whether you do anything
with Rich or not, the bottom line is that if you want to be successful with an
Internet business specifically, there are specific systems that have to be in place
but there are certain mind-sets that have to be in place inside of you in order for
those systems to work. Those systems come down to understanding that you’re in
business, you’re not a business opportunity [biz-op-py] person. I’ll give you a
good example. Today my assistant sent me a link to a letter or a newsletter article
on the Web that was basically analyzing how Google was saying that they’re
basically going to shit-can—I guess I shouldn’t have said that, sorry—but they’re
throwing a money wrench into all these ad-sense people, especially the Google
Arbitron thing and analyzing landing pages and doing some other things that I’m
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sure have the people who are following the magic button software theory of let’s
make money this month on ad-sense, I’m sure they’re freaking out.
30:23
Whereas, if you have a real business that isn’t chasing the latest biz-op, the latest
opportunity, you don’t really care and don’t have to worry about things like page
rank and whatever all the other magic voodoo crap is. You’ve got a real business
that if somebody quits, you replace them. If a piece of software breaks, you have
it fixed. If 10 subscribers unsubscribe, you know that you’re going to have
another 15 come in the next 72 hours based on past experience regardless of time
of year and phase of the moon and stuff like that. You really have to make a
decision. Do I want to have a real business and understand that there is no perfect
business, there’s only good, better, and best. You constantly refine your
procedures and your skills and the skill set of the people that you bring into work
with you or you try to be one of these get rich quick people where you’re really
just at the mercy of the latest fad or the latest scam or the latest really good
copywriter who sends out an email that makes you think, okay, this is the magic
answer for this month or for this quarter.
If you do that, you’re never going to get ahead but if you decide that you’re going
to create a business and learn how to be a business person rather than just I’m
doing it all myself entrepreneur, then you are on your way to what you think you
want whether that’s more money, bigger house, happiness, time off, all that stuff
can only come from building a business. The further down the trail you get of
being the sole entrepreneur, the harder it is to come back and build that business.
so you need to learn how to do it right from the beginning or you’re going to have
a problem and you’re going to have to spend some time in business detox
learning how to undo your workaholism or your entrepreneurial workaholism.
RICH: For a lot of people that’s a big challenge just because if you build a business that’s
totally reliant on you, then how do you break free and get the time to then do that
without taking a severe hit. That becomes a whole other issue that a lot of people
end up struggling with.
JIM: We don’t need to get into the discussion about living below your means in the
first month you make $50,000, don’t start living like your making $50,000 every
month.
RICH: That’s for sure.
JIM: That’s a whole different ball game. The bottom line that I would leave you with is
that. You need to understand that if you want long term success, if you want all
the promises that you get especially from the paper gurus, the only way to do that
is by biting the bullet and learning how to be a business person on the Internet
which in a lot of ways is similar to being a business person off the Internet but if
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you learn those things, then it’s even better. So anyway, that would be what I
would tell you. I hope this has been helpful.
33:47
RICH: I think it has been. I think you’ve provided people an insight into exactly how you
were able to do it. I think also that you’ve exposed the futility of a line of thinking
that I think is pretty pervasive with a lot of people; that I’ll just work really hard
and then I’ll master the marketing and make lots of money and then I’ll worry
about the business side later. You just had the where-with-all and the ability to
make that work but for a lot of people it doesn’t end up as pretty. You were also
forced to make it work because you had your heart condition and stuff like that.
You really needed to make it work. Whereas other people, they might try and
make that attempt later on and because it is somewhat difficult, buckle to it and
then just never really break free from that position which basically sucks.
JIM: Right.
RICH: I really appreciate you taking the time, Jim, to help people and to show people the
way.
JIM: Can I make one other comment, too?
RICH: Sure you can, yeah, whatever you want.
JIM: This is something that I’ve been dealing with my own in trying to emphasize with
my own private coaching clients. That is, when you get something that’s going,
don’t abandon it to go on to the “next thing.” Really develop your business and
each product in your business and try to maximize because that’s the surest way
to create success is to maximize what you’ve got instead of to keep on looking for
the next big score, if that makes any sense. I’ll give you an example. I’ve got an e-
book, one of the first e-books that I ever came out with. It is honestly the e-book
that I promoted the hardest and the longest before I started building up my herd of
people and got into the business of product invention to keep my subscribers
happy. That book is still my biggest and best selling e-book on a monthly basis
because I actually put the time and energy and effort and marshaled the troops to
promote that. So what I would say is make sure that once you have your systems
in place, let your systems work on stuff instead of jumping around. Maybe I’m
not saying that right but …
RICH: I understand what you’re saying and I think people got it. The way you build a
business that works is ultimately maximizing each and every activity that is being
done.
JIM: You’ve got it. That’s right.
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RICH: And if you’re continually adding more stuff without maximizing, you build a
house of cards; any of those things can fall apart. It’s kind of like that whole idea
of just building customer value and really kind of being really focused about what
are those elements that are going to play off each other, how are they going to
work and how are we going really make this work so effectively that if we have
competition down the road, it’s not going to be as much of a problem because we
just don’t have as many vulnerabilities.
JIM: Correct, yes, you’ve got it. See, that’s why you get paid to do that kind of
coaching and I do product related stuff.
RICH: Well, once again, Jim, I really appreciate you taking the time. I think you’ve
helped people see some things that most people don’t talk about, they don’t
understand and if they’re lucky enough to even end-up in that position by then for
most of them its too late. So, I really appreciate you taking the time.
JIM: Sure, thank you.
RICH: All right, speak to you soon, Jim.
[END TRANSCRIPT]
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