CITY OF SHAWNEE by pengxuezhi


									                            CITY OF SHAWNEE
                         SPECIAL BUDGET MEETING
                               JULY 8, 2008
                                 7:00 P.M.

Chairperson Pflumm called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m.

 Committee Members Present              Staff Present
 Councilmember Pflumm                   City Manager Gonzales
 Councilmember Sawyer                   Assistant City Manager Charlesworth
 Councilmember Straub                   Deputy City Clerk Powell
 Councilmember Sandifer                 Assistant City Attorney Rainey
                                        Public Works Director Freyermuth
 Other Councilmembers Present           City Engineer Wesselschmidt
 Councilmember Goode                    Police Chief Morgan
 Councilmember Kuhn                     Fire Chief Hudson
 Councilmember Distler                  Fire Marshal Mattox
                                        Parks and Recreation Director Holman
                                        Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru
                                        Finance Director Kidney
                                        Chief Codes Administrator Thompson
                                        Information Technologies Director Doherty
                                        Accounting Manager Kelly
                                        Senior Accountant Oldham
                                        Deputy Police Chief Larimore
                                        Parks Superintendent Hellwig

Members of the public who spoke: (Item 1) ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace;
(Item 2) ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, DAVE HOLTWICK, 14119 W. 48th


       Chairperson Pflumm stated that on February 11, 2008, the City Council approved using
       Stump Park and Swarner Park for the pilot Parks Recycling Program.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated essentially tonight‟s report is for informational
       purposes only to give the Council an update on how the recycling program is going in
       Stump Park and Swarner Park.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they included in the packet, some average trash
       collection and recycling collection numbers. He stated the recycling numbers have been
       lackluster and they are still chalking it up largely to the educational component. He
       stated they hope to enhance that element and get some buy-in. He stated the staff has
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 2

       found there is not a large cost associated with the program at this point for probably a
       couple of reason. The crews really are not dealing with a large volume of trash and
       recyclable material, so it has not been a big hindrance to pick it up and get it out to the
       disposal site.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig presented a slide showing an example of the retrofitted
       cans. He stated these particular cans already existed at the sites and decals were simply
       added to indicate which can was for recycling. He reported they are getting about six
       times as much trash and recyclable material. On a 16 week period, they are averaging
       about 2.5 bags of recyclables combined between the two sites. He stated these are less
       than stellar numbers, but nevertheless a step in the right direction.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated the staff recommends continuing with the pilot
       program and investigate implementing more educational opportunities to add some
       signage potentially at those parks talking about the benefits of recycling and which
       materials they would like to receive. The staff recommends continuing with the Soccer
       Club and getting information out in email verse to coaches, players, and participants of
       the soccer programs hoping to encourage participation in this program.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they could also find some volunteers to actually man
       some of the cans and invite people to use them. He stated 19 receptacles were placed in
       the parks and each of the recycling receptacles are placed next to a trash can. Both cans
       are clearly marked which is for what material. He stated they have had a lot of trash in
       the recycling containers and a lot of recyclables in the trash cans.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated there have been a lot of good comments about the Recycling

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he thinks it is great PR for the City. He stated it is a
       step in the right direction and has not been a hardship to implement this pilot program.
       He stated he thinks if they continue with the pilot program and watch how it grows and
       how they can get people used to it; potentially they could expand it from there.

       Councilmember Straub asked, since there is very little hardship and very little cost, as
       stated earlier by Parks Superintendent Hellwig, then why not go ahead and expand the

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied he is afraid if they did that, adding a can to each
       park is still something else they would have to dump. He stated two park sites has not
       been a huge undertaking, but if they starting talking about 25 to 30 sites it could become
       quite a lot of work.

       Councilmember Straub asked how many parks are in the City.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied the City has around 33 locations with trash cans.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 3

       Councilmember Straub asked about more than just the two and every little bit the City
       does, the more people will see them and the more education they will get. He stated
       eventually the people will catch on. He stated maybe they could do three or five of the
       busiest parks. He stated they know the cost is not great and the hardship is not great on
       two parks, so maybe they could look at doing it in more parks. He stated it is just like
       curbside recycling and when one neighbor starts talking to another neighbor each tries a
       little more.

       Councilmember Straub stated he does not think the program will ever be perfect, as they
       will always have trash in recycling bins and recycling material in trash bins forever, but
       every little bit helps. He stated as Parks Superintendent Hellwig just said, it is great PR
       and if Shawnee is the City in Johnson County doing recycling they will just get more PR.
       He stated if they are looking for a branding and what Shawnee is all about, that is a
       simple inexpensive thing to do. He stated doing it in three or four more parks is really up
       to the Parks Department, but eventually he would like to do it in all the parks throughout
       the City.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they could certainly expand the program and would
       look to the Council for direction.

       Councilmember Straub asked Parks Superintendent Hellwig if there are five parks in the
       City that are busier than the others, or are they all about the same.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied the City definitely has parks busier than others. He
       stated Stump Park and Swarner Park are probably the two highest volume parks, which is
       why they were picked for the pilot program.

       Councilmember Straub stated expanding the program a little more would probably not
       hurt anything and would give the City more PR. He stated they could say it probably has
       not been as successful as they want it to be, but they want to make it a little more and are
       adding two or four more parks – whatever to that effect. He stated if the crew is going to
       pick up trash in one can, it will not take them a lot more time to pick up two cans. He
       stated he is not sure if they are using different colored trash bags, but would recommend
       they use clear bags in the recycling cans so they can actually see what is in there.

       City Manager Gonzales stated they can see down in to the cans when they lift the lid.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated so far the volume has been really low and really they
       are talking about a bag and a half per park per week. He stated they have nine cans at
       Swarner and 10 can at Stump. He stated out of all 10 cans at Stump, they are getting a
       bag and a half of recyclables so the quantity has been low.

       Councilmember Straub stated he was on the County trail system and they did not have
       recycling, but he would say that more than three-quarters of their trash was plastic
       bottles. He stated people are walking out there carrying the water bottles.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 4

       City Manager Gonzales stated at this point, the staff would really like to carry the
       program through fall at these two parks. She stated they are incorporating recycling bins
       at all the City‟s special events and at summer concerts which is good education. She
       stated they need to figure out what it is going to take, i.e. do they need different signs on
       the bins, signs around the bins, or volunteers. She stated they need to figure out what will
       increase it and feel they would feel better about the program if they could take one more
       season to do it and look to next spring to expand it out.

       City Manager Gonzales stated if the response would have been overwhelming, then yes,
       they could have gone for it, but they have yet to really figure it all out and just need a
       little more time.

       Councilmember Goode stated they could put up a sign reading “Deposit your Recyclables

       City Manager Gonzales stated one would think it would be clear, but it is a change for
       people and habits take time to change.

       Councilmember Kuhn asked if the recycle decal is on just one side of the cans.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied it is on just one side. He stated it is strategically
       turned toward the trail side or hopefully the traffic side of the cans, but that is not an

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she would have to agree with City Manager Gonzales and is
       not sure she would want to expand everywhere if they have not figured out what works
       yet. She stated what might be a benefit to look at doing in the spring, would be to try
       different types of cans with different types of signage either at different locations within
       the same park. She stated if they have three different signage versions at three different
       places in each of the three parks they try, maybe seeing if one versus the other grabs their

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she would have to think if she was cutting across to throw
       away something, she might not see the recycle label, assume it is a trash can, and now she
       has ruined an entire bag of recycling not intentionally, but merely not realizing.

       Councilmember Kuhn asked if there are semi-circle recycling decals that could be placed
       on the top of the lids where the holes are located, because people might not miss that.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would imagine there are decals of that sort out

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if the decals are just stickers anyway.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig answered yes. He stated they could certainly add more
       decals. He stated the staff is going to look at the cost of having some signs made that
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 5

       actually tell which type of materials they are after. He stated that is probably another
       place where they have been a little unclear, save for the email bursts that have gone out
       and those types of things. He stated plastic and aluminum are the target recyclables and
       they really need to get the word out there so people know what they should be putting in
       the receptacles.

       Councilmember Goode stated after such a lousy spring and people out there trying to
       picnic, party, and get rained out in the morning and afternoon, they really have not given
       this program a good try. He stated if they get a nice, hot summer and people are visiting
       these parks, they might see a terrific increase in recycling, but he is not sure that will
       happen and thinks they need to watch it close. He does believe it will step up this
       summer a lot from spring, because of the weather they experienced.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they are out of soccer season and at Swarner Park
       they have each of these types of cans at the shelter houses, which are reserved for picnics.
       He stated it will be a nice test to see how much they get outside of soccer season from the
       picnic folks to see how much they are generating versus the soccer crowds. He stated
       soccer starts back up in the middle of August and will run through November.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would think by the beginning to mid-November
       date, they will have a pretty good idea of how it is going and with a few tweaks, they will
       have a better big picture of how things are going.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated they have received some good compliments. He asked about
       Herman Laird Park and over by Shawnee Town.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied he would think as they expand the program, those
       two areas would be good places, as well as West Flanders with the walking trail and is
       heavily visited on certain days.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if there is another area in the City that is more soccer and
       sports fields.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated Gum Springs might be another good location, as
       there is a fair amount of baseball and soccer at that park. He stated Garrett Park is
       another multi-use park to think about.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks this has been a good test thus far, but thinks the
       issue is bigger than just getting recycling to work in the parks. He stated if they all
       remember, curbside recycling has gone down in this city, so it is going to be a bigger
       issue than just sticking recycling bins in the parks, as they have to educate the whole city
       to recycle. He stated he hears from seniors that they do not have to recycle, because they
       are seniors and that is great because it means they do not have to pay the bill, but until
       they change the attitude of the public entirely that recycling is good for everyone
       everywhere, he can not see expanding it until they can see if they can make it work at
       these two parks.
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 6

       Councilmember Sawyer asked if they are getting a bag and a half out of each park of
       recycling, then how many bags of trash are they getting.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied they are getting 15 bags of trash; 10 at Stump and 5
       at Swarner.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated that is not a stellar output in his opinion and they still have
       a lot of work to do before they start jumping around saying they have done a wonderful
       thing here; yes, the few people who use the bins think it is great, but the public has not
       been educated that this is something they all need to start doing. He stated he knows in
       his neighborhood there are very few people who put out curbside recycling – very few.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he knows all the people in his neighborhood have to pay
       and he does not understand why they are not doing it if they are paying for it. He stated
       people put out eight to 10 bags of trash. He thinks the education portion, which the City
       does not seem to have a lot of money to do at this time, has to come and cover not only
       they recycle in parks, which he thinks is a great idea, if they can make it work. He stated
       they need to make it work at these two parks and then think about expanding it, at least in
       his opinion.

       Councilmember Straub stated it sounds to him like the program is work, but may not be
       working to the extent everyone would like. He stated they got 15 bags of recyclables
       over three months. He stated that is five bags of recycling that is not going into the dump
       and that is a positive step. He stated it may take a while and Councilmember Kuhn is
       correct, in that it may not be the signage and if they put the stickers all the way around;
       people may not know. He stated it is going to be a learning curve and education just by
       the seeing the sign is education; seeing the cans and the symbols. He stated that is a no-
       cost education.

       Councilmember Straub stated if the school districts catch on and start pushing recycling,
       it will happen. He stated it is kind of like the non-smoking sections in restaurants. He
       stated at one point there was no such thing as a non-smoking section in a restaurant. He
       stated they said there was no way non-smoking sections would make it because people
       would not come to the restaurant, but over the years it has gone the opposite way and
       now there are hardly any smoking sections in restaurants.

       Councilmember Straub stated this will take time. He stated if there is very little cost and
       very little hardship, as Parks Superintendent Hellwig said, what will it hurt to do two or
       four more of the City‟s busiest parks and that will educate the people the more they see it.

       Councilmember Straub stated he is not trying to say it is wrong and let‟s not do it, but if it
       costs very little and is a good thing for the environment, then what if out of the two more
       parks they get another 15 bags or get five bags; that is five less bags of trash that is in the
       Deffenbaugh dump and that is over a three month period. He stated if it is 15 bags for
       three months, they are looking at 60 bags each year.
JULY 8, 2008                     FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                                PAGE 7

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated it actually turned out being 40 bags for a 16-week

       Councilmember Straub stated whatever it is, whether it is 1 or 50, it is something. He
       stated if it has very little cost or very little hardship, expanding it a little bit is not going to
       hurt anything. He stated they are at least getting something recycled. He stated he does
       not recycle everything like his neighbor. He stated his neighbor‟s recycling bin is twice
       as big as her trash and his is not quite that much, but he is doing some recycling. He
       stated he recycles the plastic and aluminum.

       Councilmember Straub stated someone told him the reason recycling went down a couple
       years ago is because they stopped taking glass. He stated whether that is true or not he
       does not know, because he did not research it. He stated that information came from a
       recycling person.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he gave the Council all the numbers months ago and they
       did not include glass.

       Councilmember Straub stated this person was speaking from a recycling point of view,
       which is great and thinks more people should be that way. He stated he is merely
       suggesting they look at doing four more parks within the next 60 days. He stated if they
       have already done this for 16 weeks at very little cost or hardship and these two parks are
       the City‟s busiest, then why not pick four more parks that are not quite as busy. He stated
       the education is just seeing it in front of people; the education of seeing a billboard is that
       is where it is advertising.

       Councilmember Straub stated the City needs to advertise and he agrees if the stickers cost
       very little, then put them all the way around the receptacles.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff can look into doing that, but with the budget she
       is presenting this evening she is a little sensitive to adding anything at all. She stated she
       understands this is minimal, but right now the City is short six positions in the Public
       Works Department and it is very likely that Parks Superintendent Hellwig‟s staff is going
       to have to step up and step over and help out in that area.

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is how the workload grows. She stated everyone
       thinks recycling is a great idea.

       Councilmember Straub asked if they could look at doing some corporate sponsors to see
       if they could buy a trash can.

       City Manager Gonzales stated then it is the time involved in doing that work. She stated
       it is just more work for the staff. She stated she is all for doing it, but would like to
       perfect the program more before they expand it.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 8

       Councilmember Straub stated he has people bugging him about this program. He asked
       if more people got involved and organized this effort, would City Manager Gonzales be
       open to listening to what they had to do.

       City Manager Gonzales replied she and the staff would certainly be open to listening to
       them, but then again someone has to listen to them, someone has to paint the trash cans,
       someone has to take the trash cans out to the locations; it is not a big deal, but that is now
       the City has gotten to where they are today in that they just keep saying yes to things and
       they do not have enough people to do the work that needs to be done. She stated she
       would prefer waiting, but if the majority of the Council wants the staff to put energy into
       that effort, then some other things will have to be placed on the back burner. She stated
       maybe some right-of-way will not get mowed for a few days – there are trade-offs.

       Councilmember Straub stated from what he understands it is very little cost.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated it is a little over $850.00 for the two parks.

       City Manager Gonzales stated that does not include the staff time of painting the trash
       cans, the ordering time, etcetera. She stated she would like to give this program one
       more season to get it right, so they do not do it halfway in a bunch of parks and would
       rather do it right in a couple parks and expand it out.

       Councilmember Sandifer stated agrees 100% with City Manager Gonzales. He stated the
       City is in a tight budget right now and he thinks the staff is doing a great job. He stated
       with the volume of recycling they are getting today, he thinks they need to go further in
       their experimentation to find out where they are at. He stated this is not a decision that
       just one councilmember can make and it needs to come in front of the entire Council.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the Committee can make a motion and this can be taken to
       a Council meeting.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated on that same note she really is not sure she would look to
       expand out of the parks right now, but would not want the City to not experiment on
       some of this. She thinks Councilmember Sawyer‟s comment on education and in the
       packet Parks Superintendent Hellwig talked about possibly using the CityLine to get
       information out to people. She stated she really would love if they do decide to do it, and
       knows there are costs associated with not adding one more thing, but with the City
       looking at possibly some of the signage, rather then maybe making the step that at both
       parks every trash can gets the same signage, even at that cost, maybe they could look at
       picking some things.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks it is a bad idea to take a program that with every
       great intention is a good thing, but is not having great results and expand it everywhere.
       She thinks it is a better thing to take a program that has great intensions and could have
       great results and fine tune it before they roll it out in a mass area. She does not want the
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 9

       Council to suddenly say they are going to put up signage and if that does not work, she
       would like to see them try more than one thing at a time if possible.

       Councilmember Goode thinks they should give it a trial this summer. He stated if the
       quantities increase beyond the expectations presented this evening, then they could try it
       at other locations. He does not know if they will ever get into a better position financially
       with this kind of an economic set-up out there, but as far as he is concerned they can give
       it a try and increase it if it works out that way.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would be happy to come back before the Council
       in November and give them an update following the fall soccer season. He stated they
       can look at how things have gone trying a couple different things at these two sites and
       maybe find the right formula and what people respond to.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks this is a good program. He thinks if they look to
       expand it in the future, they want to look at where most the teams are playing.

       ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated people are naturally lazy. He
       stated there is a large hole on the left receptacle and a little hole in the right one. He
       stated recycling is hard. He stated he has green buckets at home and it is a lot of work to
       take the stuff out there. He stated he drives by these receptacles and does not know if
       there is a way to make it easier to throw recyclables away other than some sort of
       disincentive and that is kind of what it is. He stated people stand there with a handful of
       [different types of materials and just throw it all in one container].

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated he does not know that putting it a step further behind, or
       putting a lid on top that make the people have to work is the answer, but he is certainly a
       green bucket filler himself in his neighborhood. He stated he has a feeling that one day
       based on the things that Deffenbaugh is telling them, there is a reduction in glass. He
       stated Max Clegett is the Deffenbaugh engineer and it is the result of the glass being
       broken in handling at their facility which is why they stopped picking it up. He stated
       since people can not recycle glass they just throw it all in the trash and that is why the
       numbers have gone down.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated one day Deffenbaugh will charge per pound for the bag on
       the left and they will not charge for the bag on the right (recyclables). He stated ignoring
       that, or trying to give the opportunity to keep the bags on the right from not growing as
       fast as they can, will save them all money.

       ROBERT ROWLAND asked Parks Superintendent Hellwig if they have ever asked
       anyone who has thrown stuff away, why.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he has not seen them do it. He stated his crews may
       have seen the people do it, but that is another thing to monitor. He stated they could keep
       a clipboard with them and interview some of the people who are using the receptacles
       and not using them.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 10

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated to give a little background on the lids of the cans
       they found the recyclers are the doers and the people who care. He stated if one person is
       going to take that extra step, it is going to be the recyclers versus the trash throwers. He
       stated if they keep both cans wide open, the trash throwers have the best of both worlds.
       He stated hopefully the doers, the recyclers, will still pick the right option.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated they need to make it difficult for people to use the trash can
       and put it further back; maybe not allow them to throw away trash. He stated he was a
       Boy Scout, if they hauled it in, they took it home.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not have the figures with him this evening, but his
       point on curbside recycling in Shawnee was the figures he acquired from Mr. Clegett the
       first part of the year and the recycling products that go to the recycler are less than what
       they were and have been dropping every year. He stated glass was pulled out of all of
       them, so glass was not an issue as far as tonnage was concerned. He stated it surprised
       him greatly that the numbers were going down instead of up, because since 1992 he got
       signatures to bring before the Shawnee City Council to get curbside recycling in
       Shawnee. He stated it was disappointing to him that the numbers are going the other

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he runs some convenience stores and they tried and finally
       gave up in putting recycling cans and trash cans out. He stated if they are both made the
       same size, people throw trash in both cans. He stated if they are sitting side by side, as
       much as he hates to say it, there are lazy people out there. He stated he is lucky if the
       people even pick up their trash and put it in the cans, because most of the time they throw
       it in the parking lot. He stated that amazes him inasmuch education as everyone has put
       out in the last few years not to trash their neighborhoods, but people being people – there
       are a vast majority that do not care.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he can not see it any other way – the people just do not
       care. He stated he would love to see this program work. He stated he believes they have
       to take baby steps and if they have to do more signage or if someone has a new idea, he
       thinks they should explore it, but before they expand to more parks they should wait to
       see what they can do this year. He stated he knows it does not sound like a great deal of
       money, but in this particular budget it is a lot of money – big money.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he is in favor of running the program to the end of the
       soccer season. He stated that does not mean they have to sit there until the end of the
       soccer season and do nothing, as he would rather see the program work than fail. He
       stated he sure does not want to expand the program at this time, based on the information
       they have at this time.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated they do not need a motion at this time. He stated they will
       just continue on with the same program.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 11

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff will continue to explore ways to make the
       program better before the fall season. She stated they will try some different techniques.

       Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they will take a percentage of the lids off and see if
       they can find that right culmination.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated he actually spoke with Deffenbaugh about two weeks ago
       on Monday or Wednesday as his trash collection changed. He stated the PR fellow, last
       name Kauffman, he started the conversation off with if they would charge his
       neighborhood more for people who do not recycle. He stated he is tired of paying for the
       people who throw away bags of trash and he throws away one bag in one green bucket.
       He stated this fellow told him he had been waiting for years for someone to say that. He
       stated his family actually recycles well.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated he does not know if Deffenbaugh is going to come bring
       large yellow buckets where people can have a plethora of recycling opportunities; glass,
       plastic, paper, magazines, cardboard, etcetera, but they might be willing to do something
       as it is in their best interest to reduce the flow of stuff that is a waste stream versus a
       recyclable. He stated Deffenbaugh takes glass and loses money on it, because it keeps it
       out of their trash as well. He stated he thinks Deffenbaugh might be a partner interested
       in keeping their business open longer and if by doing this, it gets some family, maybe
       10% of the people to do so in Shawnee, according to the Johnson County Waste meeting
       held many months ago that might pump them up from 26% to 30% recycling which is a
       dramatic improvement.


       Chairperson Pflumm stated that the City currently enforces the 2003 International
       Construction Codes. The codes are updated every three years and many area
       municipalities have adopted newer versions.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked Chief Codes Administrator Thompson if these have been sent
       out to the Home Builders Association and the Top 10 builders in Shawnee to get some
       feedback before they made this recommendation.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson answered yes. He stated staff has sent out over
       600 email newsletters twice and posted information on the Internet. He stated people
       were invited to attend the meeting this evening and invited to attend an information
       exchange meeting held on June 16, 2008. He stated they sent out hard copies in the mail
       to over 150 different people on the City‟s mailing list twice as well.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated in addition, staff has received training on
       the new codes being proposed to the Council for adoption. He stated the staff has
       attended multiple meetings on this topic. He stated they have reviewed local
       amendments from other municipalities. He stated they held that information exchange
       meeting and as a result they are offering for the Council‟s consideration adoption of the
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 12

       energy conservation code, which is something they had not previously adopted. He
       stated it deals with energy conservation and new commercial buildings.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated they received some good feedback from
       people at the information exchange meeting. He stated they also advised them they were
       reviewing their permit fee structure and it is based on project value. He stated the staff
       feels like they have undervaluing new single family homes between $10-20 a square foot
       and are proposing that the Council allow staff to administratively adjust the value of new
       construction based on their research.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he thinks there are construction community
       members present this evening to discuss this issue and they may have some additional
       input. He stated he would be happy to provide as much insight and go into as much
       depth as the Committee would like, or just try to answer any questions at this time.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if Chief Codes Administrator Thompson is talking about per
       square foot evaluations when someone comes in to do a building permit.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied that is correct. He stated what happens is
       the permit fees are based on project value. He stated by law, the codes administrator is
       the person that assigns the value of construction. He stated for a house the information
       he has from the U.S. Census Bureau indicates that in 2007 for the Midwest region the
       average price per square foot at $88.00 is exclusive to any improvements to the lot or the
       lot itself. He stated the staff feels like that value should be in the $80 range and currently
       Shawnee is putting it in the $60 range.

       Councilmember Goode asked how Shawnee stands with the competitors.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied a comparison on permit fees from other
       local jurisdictions looking at a typical single family dwelling, shows Shawnee‟s current
       fee at $683. He presented comparisons with other local municipalities. He noted down
       below looking at the value currently being used at $60.00 per square foot and $10.00 for
       unfinished basement, garage, and decks. He stated the staff feels it reasonable to value
       that construction going from $683 to $883 per permit fee, which is a 29.3% increase. He
       stated with the projection of increases in revenues, it is about $20,000 per 100 new single
       family dwelling permits issued.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated if someone is a business person looking at revenues and how
       they get revenues, normally when they are not doing well is not the time to raise prices.
       He stated that is his own opinion, but is normally the way it works in the business world.
       He stated maybe the local other cities, such as Olathe and Overland Park, have raised
       their fees and maybe not, but he would think that Shawnee would want to be doing
       everything possible to try to get more billing to happen in Shawnee. He stated raising
       prices would not be his recommendation.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 13

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he feels like Shawnee‟s permit fees are
       more than reasonable today and even with the adjustment, which is very fair, they still
       remain the least expensive for new single family by a significant margin. He stated he
       thinks they are doing a technical adjustment here that is really incumbent upon him, as
       the City‟s building official, to make sure they are providing a fair and just valuation for
       the permit fee purposes. He stated he thinks they are being very fair.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he would agree with Chief Codes Administrator Thompson‟s
       assessment, but thinks maybe his timing is not the best.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated her concern is very similar as Chairperson Pflumm‟s, but in
       a different area, in dealing with the timing issue. She stated looking through this
       information, she knows this is a good idea and something they need to do and should
       move forward with making themselves consistent and adopting these codes. She stated
       she absolutely thinks that should happen. She stated her question is about the timing.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated looking at some of the numbers Chief Codes Administrator
       Thompson provided the Council with and some of the estimates from people she knows
       he sent them to, because she heard from a number of builders, that they are looking at
       numbers that are expected to be somewhere between a 4-8% increase based on some of
       the things that would be adopted. She thinks a lot of it had to do with some foundations,
       some changes in floor plans, and things that were long term investments in increased
       quality dwellings.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated what she is wondering is with the market being very soft
       and just receiving more reports today that the housing market actually had a larger
       decline than they expected even this month, with banks pulling back significantly from
       lending to developers, with regulators coming into back and categorizing loans for very
       strong developers, and then banks requiring them therefore to put more cash into the
       deals and decreasing their liquid assets as well, with the market being a little harder for
       buyers and the market not really offering 100% loans quite as often and etcetera, adding
       that $6,000 to $10,000 and even in a higher to mid-range subdivision as her ward carries
       a lot of newer homes in, she worries it might decrease even more their already soft

       Councilmember Kuhn continued that she wonders, looking at the codes, nothing did she
       see which she could interpret as something that would have a deep impact on safety
       issues. She stated if that is not the case, then what does Chief Codes Administrator
       Thompson see as being a harm to the City in maybe waiting until the next building cycle
       where they normally would see an increase come back through, maybe April 1st, rather
       than inputting it now in November where they might still get that last rash of quick fall
       spec housing or maybe that early spring permits fold.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson presented a chart that compares the local
       municipalities. He stated he thinks what it shows is that about three years ago they
       adopted the 2003 codes and Overland Park moved to the 2006/07 codes. He stated
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 14

       Lenexa, Leawood, and Kansas City, Missouri have moved to the 2006/08 codes. He
       stated Olathe right now, as he understands it, is struggling with that very issue to move to
       it and his primary reason for staying in step with the other cities is that experience and
       feedback from the construction community is demanding that, but he agrees they should
       do it.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated what happens is if they stay together in the
       codes, the contractors do not have to worry about what city they are building in and the
       rules in different cities. He stated he has a significant feedback from a large portion of
       the construction community that they want the cities all underneath the same codes and
       pray they will all interpret them the same way. He stated it is the cities‟ challenge to do
       that, so he feels it is his obligation to do his best to stay in step with other local
       jurisdictions, all the while respecting that it is a hard time for the home industry.

       Councilmember Kuhn asked if looking at those, if it might be doable to break up some.
       She stated she knows there are some mechanical codes that are probably more in bringing
       things in and tightening them up; things that deal more with plumbing, HVAC, and some
       that deal more heavily with the structures themselves. She stated she is thinking that the
       mechanical ones would not have the impact and actually might make it easier for people
       to pull permits when they are doing improvements, but maybe it would not impact their
       new construction.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied they could do a number of different things.
       He stated the way the codes are set up today, the International Residential Code contains
       electrical, plumbing, mechanical, building, structure – it is all one package and they could
       certainly change portions of that and not adopt sections.

       Councilmember Kuhn asked if they can adopt it all with an amendment that says they
       will not enforce XY&Z until April 1st.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson answered absolutely, as they are very flexible on
       that. He stated at the Council‟s direction, they could just about do anything.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he did want to address a couple specific
       things. He stated the main cost increases in the International Residential Code, as he
       understands it, is the reinforcing required for concrete foundation walls has essentially
       doubled. He stated that is a significant increase and he has heard a lot of different
       figures, things like $2,000, $3,000, and $4,000 on increase in the cost of a typical
       foundation. He stated the other thing that has changed significantly that is a big cost, is
       that there is a new requirement for a water resistive barrier to be placed around a house
       when people are using single panel product. He stated single panel products are very
       common in their market. He stated before they could put the panel directly against the
       studs and as long as everything was perfect on the exterior and no water got behind that,
       that was good, but now a secondary drainage plane is a requirement and he thinks
       experience has taught him that it is very difficulty to have a perfect weather barrier on the
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 15

       outside, so they put in a backup system and those are the two changes to the code that he
       thinks are the most significant cost increase and does not think either are bad things.

       Councilmember Sandifer stated he is in agreement of the timing, as he thinks the timing
       is off here. He stated if they want everyone to build in Shawnee, then keep the cheapest
       rate; maybe they all will want to come to Shawnee – who knows.

       City Manager Gonzales stated it is not working yet.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked City Manager Gonzales how she knows that.

       City Manager Gonzales replied because they do not have any single family permits.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated they would have less than they have now if they had a higher

       Councilmember Sandifer stated he thinks they need to keep a hold on the rate right now
       until they get more productivity in their building in the City. He stated there are a couple
       of things he actually like in this code adoption, one being having to produce paperwork
       on what is going to happen in subdivisions, streets, stub streets, or any empty lots around
       subdivisions where people have to be notified when they buy the house. He stated then
       people can not say they were never told or the real estate company told them something
       different; if it is in writing and they hand the information to them when they buy the
       house, it is pretty much cut and dry with some of these issues they have run into in the

       Councilmember Sandifer asked if any of these new codes or regulations prohibit
       homeowners from building their own. He stated he knows they could do that before.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied they continue to propose that the ordinance
       require that contractors who pull permits have a County license with two exceptions. He
       stated one is for minor projects and the other is for homeowners who are building their
       own house or working on their own house.

       Councilmember Sandifer asked if that part did not change.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated that is correct.

       Councilmember Sandifer asked if they can do their own work, as long as it passes code.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied if they live in the house or plan to live in it,
       then that is correct.

       Councilmember Goode stated they talked about reinforcing in concrete walls in
       basements and asked to what extent are they proposing to increase that factor that will
       run up that cost a few thousand dollars per foundation. He stated if that is the case, then
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 16

       what does that cost increase because he is not aware of that answer. He stated he used to
       build houses and is not aware of the answer to that question today. He asked Chief Codes
       Administrator Thompson if he has studied that to find out if that is going to be a
       legitimate increase in the cost of a house under those circumstances and will cost that

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied that he worked on a committee with a few
       local building officials who contacted a number of engineers and geotechnical firms. He
       stated the critical issue is the equivalent fluid design pressure and the weight of the soil
       and how much it pushes on the walls. He stated 30 lbs per cubic foot has been used
       everywhere frequently and is what the old code said. He stated the new code is forcing
       60 lbs per cubic foot equivalent fluid pressure for the design of the foundation walls and
       is doubling the pressure, which basically doubles the amount of reinforcing steel they
       need to resist that and in his conversation with a geotechnical engineer, who he considers
       very reputable and knowledgeable, he indicated that 50 to 60 lbs per cubic foot was a
       reasonable range, but it depends.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson continued that it would require a soils test at each
       location, but in this area that is a reasonable assumption for an area-wide basis and the
       code says to use the 60 lbs. He stated he does not think it is a bad change.

       Councilmember Goode stated in the older days when footings and piers meant
       something, depending on what type of ground they were laying that footing on, as they
       could not lay it on frail ground without putting piers if they were going to have a job. He
       stated a lot of people did not do that, as they just laid it on a footing and then put the piers
       in the grounds – the dropping off ground which has caused lots of problems not only in
       Kansas, but in many states.

       Councilmember Goode stated he is wondering about the other facets involved. He stated
       if they do not put the right footings on ground that is soft and ground that is not clay or no
       rock base, they are going to have some problems. He stated he is trying to figure out how
       they are going to avoid those problems if they do not take care of the other things and try
       to save money, like piers and footings. He stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson
       knows it costs more to put in footings and if they have to drop their piers it will cost a lot
       more money. He stated he has done a lot of that work in the past and people are praising
       him today that they can put a brick house on that ground and show no cracks because of
       what they did 15 to 20 years ago. He stated that is of concern to him, because if they do
       not do the whole thing completely right and put in the extra reinforcing it still may not
       solve the problem.

       ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated he appreciates Chief Codes
       Administrator Thompson‟s work and has traded some emails with him. He thanked
       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson very much for those emails. He presented a
       document that Overland Park produced with permitting for Overland Park as an exam of
       the different areas around. He stated what they will actually find is the numbers shown,
       and if he does not mind saying, Overland Park are the examples for Shawnee where for
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 17

       instance, 80% less so they will call it $330.00 or $340.00 and the different buildings
       where two commercials and a residential. He stated as they go down the list, they will
       see with regard to the comment about people not wanting to building in Shawnee because
       it could prohibit and be expensive, but Shawnee is the cheapest with permitting.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated thinks one of the issues that the code, certainly in 2006 and
       potentially in the next couple of codes, there is going to be a number of work, some of the
       duct work and pressurization coming back to examine to make sure about the secondary
       water barriers, he, as a homeowner and past building, would be happy to know that his
       city, county, and state were not the lowest cost and were not allowing the department that
       ensured the safety and enforcement of the codes for the houses in which he plans on
       living with his family were in.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated $428 to Tulsa, Omaha, Olathe, DeSoto, Independence, and
       Kearney are cities of Shawnee‟s equal. He stated there is even so much of a greater
       variance with larger amounts. He stated he is sorry that the residential market is having a
       problem. He stated he is thinking about selling his house and would hate to see what they
       might after 10 years, but not to have the money or permitting fees when they see that is an agenda that they built two years ago.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked Mr. Rowland if Shawnee was on that list.

       ROBERT ROWLAND answered no. He stated the chart shows Overland Park picking
       other people that were more expensive. He stated they cherry picked their solutions. He
       stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson had picked Overland Park as being more
       expensive than Shawnee. He stated he was using if Overland Park was 10 and Shawnee
       was 7 or 8, that looking at the other cities in the metropolitan area are substantially even
       more so. He stated Shawnee is a very cost effective permitting location.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated Mr. Rowland should not forget that Overland Park‟s mill levy
       is about one-third of Shawnee‟s.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated from a building permit standpoint . . .

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that, but Overland Park has people coming to
       build in their city a lot more frequently than Shawnee does and his opinion is that in
       experiencing a great slowdown anything that raises cost would probably not be good
       timing. He stated it probably needs to wait a couple years, or maybe not a couple of
       years but the Council could adopt everything that does not impose a 10% increase onto a
       house. He stated a $4,000 or $5,000 increase was just mentioned on just one item, but
       once they throw on the builder‟s cost and the builder‟s cost that increases relatively
       quickly by the time it comes to the homeowner.

       ROBERT ROWLAND asked Chairperson Pflumm if he is suggesting that selecting or
       cherry picking the particular code pieces to adopt.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 18

       Chairperson Pflumm replied he would opt for going status quo right now and possibly at
       a later date when the City can pass on those codes and not really affect the business
       community that is making a living off this.

       ROBERT ROWLAND presented a document showing the states in the United States and
       the counties who adopted the 2006 IECC code and/or states, counties, and cities who
       have adopted a stronger code. He stated he is actually in favor of the adoption of the
       codes and thinks while they have representatives of the business community here this
       evening, he is not sure what representatives of the homeowner‟s community are here. He
       stated potentially he is speaking as a homeowner in this particular instance.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated he wants the strong codes. He stated he wants the anti-
       burglary, wood reinforcement, greater wall strength and concrete on the bottom in the
       piers. He stated he wants the IECC energy codes. He stated the Department of Energy
       has a great document on the cost of coal in the last year. He stated it starts out low and
       goes up. He stated the 2007/2008/2009 IECC codes are going to actually call for a 30%
       increase in efficiency which is going to do some of the duct work blower tests.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated he would happily send the state who has adopted the 2006
       IECC building codes document to the Council. He stated they have done this in many
       cases fairly recently 2007 and 2008. He stated of them there is a handful. He stated
       Connecticut‟s quote is “as stringent as the 2000 IECC”. He stated there is the District of
       Columbia. He stated the majority as they go through, Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, and
       American Samoa – every one of them have adopted it.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated the book that the builders build by in this area know if they
       have to use 5,000 PSI concrete and have to have one of the guys with the long snorkel
       things to drop off the concrete and use the same build. He stated they call Schutte
       Lumber and do 2 X 6‟s instead of 2 X 4‟s because they are going to be putting in outside
       foam to get an R19 instead of an R13. He stated it makes it much easier with what they
       are doing on their roof or if they are using a radiant barrier. He stated a common code
       helps the building industry much simpler, he would think, as someone.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated as a homeowner he wants it and there was a reason those
       codes were developed and that is to help him. He stated he is sorry that might impact
       some of the building industry, but they are going to make him pay anyway and the
       reduction in the costs and the benefits when he goes to sell his house and puts on the sign
       that he is green and has a Leed platinum house. He stated it is just like if someone owned
       a Prius. He stated if someone owns a Prius and puts it in the newspaper for sale today, it
       will be sold tomorrow. He stated if someone owns a Suburban and puts it in the
       newspaper, they will be driving it next year and the houses, from the way they are going,
       are the same way and some of those codes help address that issue; they make the house a
       better quality product.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated those are minimum codes, so normally if someone wants to
       put more reinforcement in his basement and use that as a selling feature then he can. He
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 19

       stated if someone wants 2 X 6 exterior walls, there are guys out there doing it right now;
       they can do that.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated all they are saying here tonight is that those are all good
       codes, but they just need to watch when they impose them because they could very well
       have a negative impact on more residential and commercial building in Shawnee.

       ROBERT ROWLAND asked if there is a concern that the houses being built and the
       residential products being built to a higher standard is the attractive feature, rather than
       the lower standard. He stated he understands Lenexa or Olathe, up until relatively
       recently, had no building codes at all.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated they did not have any energy codes.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stood corrected. He stated he meant the energy codes that are
       costing him money out of his pocket. He stated he welcomes the more expensive codes,
       as they will save the people money.

       Councilmember Straub stated he noticed there is a big difference between Shawnee‟s fees
       versus the other cities. He asked if Shawnee has not been increasing them over a period
       of time. He stated increasing the fees 29%, or even 18%, at once is a huge increase. He
       stated if they were to increase the fees 3% per year over the last 10 years may have been
       a different story, so he wonders why there is such a big discrepancy.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson explained the staff brought the valuation before
       the City Council somewhere around 2002 and got direction from the Council at that time
       to use the $60 and they were content with that. He stated the staff had not been staying in
       step with the valuation increases, but has on the commercial side of things. He stated the
       City has valuation tables they apply to commercial, so looking at the sheet they have
       stayed pretty current on their permit fee structure.

       Councilmember Straub stated he understands that by adopting the new codes may
       increase the building cost, for the average builder and a $200,000 house, they are talking
       somewhere around 3% or 5%.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied he can not put a good number to it and the
       only thing he has heard are estimates.

       Councilmember Straub stated he is actually in favor of the stronger codes, but he would
       like to have things done up to the higher code if he can afford it. He stated it is not just
       hurting the builder‟s cost, but the buyer as well, because if they can not afford to have a
       lot of these thing, and yes if they look at houses in Shawnee that are 100 years old they
       are not built as well as probably the houses today, but there are still people living in them
       and happy to do that because that is where they can afford to live. He thinks the staff
       definitely needs to look into this and is willing to look at both sides.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 20

       Councilmember Straub stated he likes the stronger codes, but certainly does not want to
       discourage construction. He stated a builder can choose to use those stronger codes and
       use that as a selling point just like the Prius. He stated he will not buy a Prius because it
       is not economically for him, but does not own a Suburban either.

       Councilmember Distler stated she just wanted to make the comment that going door to
       door she did hear many people in Fairway Hills and Wedgwood who had complaints
       about rotting around their windows and doors. These people asked her why the City had
       allowed that to happen and so on and so forth. She stated listening to someone say that
       people are going to buy what they can afford and be happy to live with it, she knows that
       she personally lives in a 30 year old house that she has completely gutted and replaced all
       the windows because as it got older those things needed to be replaced. She stated she
       does not want to live in a home that leaks water. It is not just one resident, as she heard
       many complaints about rotting wood.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she understands the window issue and how the flashing was
       and asked if that is included in tonight‟s material.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated that one would have been changed a long time ago in the
       2003 codes.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she thought that as well.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated in his opinion, the code did a poor job of
       prescribing quality of trim wood, for example. He stated inexpensive pieces of lumbar
       may be used just as much as expensive pieces. He stated requirements for back priming
       were non-existent and there were significant issues about the quality. He stated the code
       still does not have significant requirements for trim and it can continue to rot, depending
       on how it is installed, the quality of material, and how it is protected. He stated they do
       propose more restrictive requirement for flashing, which is called rough openings.

       Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated based on his reading and research, the
       amendment R will require a method to flash the rough openings so if water does get in
       through a crack seal in the window or a leaking trim, or some place in there, it will drain
       down to the bottom of the rough opening where the sill flashing is provided and will be
       drained out to the secondary drainage plain, instead of into the planning to rot the lumber
       which is what they believe if the right way to do it. He apologized that that code still has
       not strengthened the requirement for trim around the windows.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated it is actually R703 – the flashing.

       DAVE HOLTWICK, 14119 W. 48th Street, stated he lives in Shawnee, however tonight
       he is present as a representative of the Home Builders Association of Greater Kansas
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 21

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he would start off by saying that they sincerely appreciate the
       working relationship they have with Chief Codes Administrator Thompson and
       appreciate his willingness to work with them with concerns that the industry and their
       members have with codes and issues that come up throughout the day to day work that
       goes on.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have members that tell them they build in Shawnee
       because they like it here; the process is fair and predictable. He stated they hope they can
       keep it that way. He stated development is fluid and it will tend to go where the
       regulations and processes are fair and predictable and the costs are manageable and fair
       as well. He has heard estimates all over the board, just as Chief Codes Administrator
       Thompson talked about earlier, about the costs associated with these new codes and
       appreciates the recognition that there is some cost that is part of that. He stated the
       gentleman who spoke before him, when he was talking about wanting additional features
       in his home, he has four or five builders sitting there tonight who said, “Sign me up”, as
       they are willing to build it.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have the capacity and ability to do it. He stated as
       Chairperson Pflumm pointed out, this is a minimum code intended to provide minimum
       life safety and be a good guidance for development that occurs. He stated they can talk
       about energy efficiency as well.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated most of them should have seen an email, if not received an
       invitation, and the Home Builders Association of Greater Kansas City, who he represents,
       has for several years had different green initiatives. Frankly, the issue has been that they
       can provide it, but will anyone buy it. He stated when it came down to time of sale, most
       were interested in countertops, many not all. He stated many were more interested in the
       countertops and floor coverings than they were in the less flashy features that might
       provide that green home.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he will tell the Council personally that his home built five
       years ago in Shawnee is one of the first green homes built under the then standard and he
       has the little plaque by the door indicating that. He stated he would also like to comment
       City Manager Gonzales and the City staff. He stated he believes that City Manager
       Gonzales has shown many times through some of the budget preparations and things they
       have seen how this City staff does a great job controlling those costs and providing
       services that the citizens in Shawnee want and deserve and keeping those costs low.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated the last thing he will point out on the example presented by
       Mr. Rowland, is that was done as part of a study that Overland Park did when they were
       looking at raising their fees a year and a half to two years ago. He stated to compare
       permit fees, a fee is set commensurate with the service provide. He stated those all
       provide different levels of service in there. He stated for the City of Springhill to say that
       because Overland Park is providing a permit fee that Shawnee‟s should be the same cost,
       they can not compare it that way and really should be commensurate with the service
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 22

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he wants to give some updates on some of the market. He
       stated they have talked a little about the market and how maybe this adoption of the new
       code should be considered as they look at that. He stated builders have significantly
       slowed new home starts in the area in the last 18 months in response to the build up in the
       inventory. He stated Lenexa has dropped from 325 single family homes and 150
       apartments permitted in 2006 to 24 single family homes so far this year. He stated
       Shawnee had 269 single family permits in 2006 and 44 so far this year. He stated he
       would say that is good news/bad news. He stated that his builders want to build, but
       equally want to sell, so if they are continually building homes they are not able to move
       that is an issue they are not able to deal with.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated sales in Johnson County year-to-date, new homes are down
       30% from a year ago which fares slightly better than the metro average of 35%.
       However, in the past two years sales have fallen to around 45%. He stated they should
       make no doubt about it – sales, raw numbers, are down, however prices have continued to
       increase slightly. He stated Johnson County new home prices have increased 3% this

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated the average new home sales price in Johnson County has
       topped $380,000. He stated he thinks there are several different reasons for that. Part of
       that, may be that folks in some of the higher price ranges are able to have that money
       available to buy some of those homes and it is more difficult in some of the lower price

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated that metro-wide, new home construction is occurring at 30%
       of the levels they saw at the peak of 2004 and 2005. He stated their current projections
       put the metro on a pace likely to pull about 3,500 new home permits this year, which
       would be the lowest number of new home permits since 1982.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated again, with the economy as it is stills struggling and concern
       with what the new home market may look like, they have agreed on many of the issues in
       these codes. He stated the Council saw in the document tonight that Overland Park and
       Gardner both passed the 2006 code in 2006 and jumped right out, as he thinks there is
       some reasoning behind them doing that. He thinks some of the other cities, with the
       change in the economy and change in the market, decided it was time to take a look and
       wait and see. He stated they also had a study that looked at foundation standards and
       appreciate the fact that Johnson County has come up with an alternate foundation
       standard to the prescriptive code. He stated they have literally doubled the reinforcement
       that goes into the foundation wall now, so probably 2-4% of the that increased cost is in
       that foundation.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated as he said, they have reached an agreement on many of the
       issues and compromised on some. He stated there are still a couple of issues he would
       like to raise with the Committee this evening. He stated they have actually already raised
       some of them for him. He stated he was going to ask, because they had talked with Chief
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 23

       Codes Administrator Thompson about why rushing to implement Olathe has discussed
       the code and have discussed it for over a year. He stated the most recent discussion is
       that they are not even going to consider adopting until at least December of this year. He
       stated they have considered it, but said because of costs, etcetera, they do not want to do
       that now.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated his request was going to be even if they adopt the codes now
       that they look at waiting until at least January 1st of this year to give some time for further
       inventory to be absorbed and builders to adjust to the new requirements. He stated he has
       heard a later date than that and thinks they would be willing to do that as well, but had
       hoped for at least January 1st.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated the second issue that has not really come up, is an issue with
       window sill height. He stated he is not sure if any of them on the Council have heard
       from any of the building members about this, as it is really complex. He believes it is an
       amendment that is probably well intentioned, but what this amendment would do is
       require that any operable window that is on a floor higher than six feet above grade or
       another surface below, that the bottom of that window would need to be at least 24 inches
       above the floor. He stated there are a lot of issues he can go into, whether it is for egress
       issues and the alternative to that is to put a window in, but have it so it will not open more
       than four inches, which is a real difficult thing to do.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated there are at least two or three issues. He stated there is design
       – to change the design of their homes to allow for it. He stated they hear light glass and
       thinks they have done a good job of incorporating glass into the design and there will be
       design costs to change that. He stated there is also some energy efficiency costs. He
       thinks some of the windows they are using now are actually more efficient than what they
       could be required to use under this requirement. He stated the life safety issues of having
       that window now non-operable or rose for egress in case of an emergency egress.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated because of issues with this and some concerns that even the
       ICC (International Code Council) has, many local municipalities have deleted that
       requirement and is their 613.2. He stated many cities have deleted that from their codes.
       He stated Lenexa adopted then repealed and took it out. He stated Overland Park and
       Gardner are the only two in the area that he is aware that has it. He stated he told the
       Council earlier that they adopted the codes early on in the process in 2006, so he thinks
       they were not as aware of some of those issues and did not look at it as closely as some of
       the other cities. He stated Kansas City, Missouri removed it and Olathe told them if and
       when they pass the codes they will not have that requirement. Leawood has also passed
       the code and removed that requirement.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he believes that additional costs that are part of that, he
       actually believes their members would give up the additional cost of the permit fee in
       trade for the design costs and other issues, the marketability if you will, of the design
       with that change in window requirement. He stated many of these codes they agree with
       and Chief Codes Administrator Thompson talked about staying steady on the codes and
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 24

       having a level playing field and they all do like that, but think it ought to be a code that is
       reasonable, a minimum code and not the highest level code that they would all have to

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he appreciates his opportunity to share some thoughts with
       the Committee this evening. He asked for questions.

       Councilmember Sandifer stated he was reading this and must have missed that, but it is in
       there now.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated that proposal is part of the current document and he is asking
       that their 613.2 be amended out to what they are currently looking at, because as it stands
       right now he believes Chief Codes Administrator Thompson still has that included in the

       Councilmember Sandifer asked Mr. Holtwick if he feels the builders would not have a
       problem with Shawnee raising the permit fee if they would take this out.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he was trading horses at that point. He stated he thinks it
       would be difficult for him to say. He stated he will say that he thinks Shawnee‟s fees are
       reasonable and again, he thinks someone pointed out how long it has been since they
       have had an increase. He stated it is a whole lot easier for this industry to handle a
       gradual steady increase than to handle a 29% increase all at once. He stated what he
       really meant to say if he did not say it earlier, is that he believes the costs, as part of this
       home, is a whole lot more substantial in that window requirement than it would be in the
       building permit fee being talked about increasing.

       Councilmember Sandifer asked Mr. Holtwick if they were to adjust the amendment on
       the windows and go ahead and raise the fee, he does not think there would be a big
       problem with this.

       DAVE HOLTWICK answered he does not think there would be.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated if he understands Mr. Holtwick correctly, he is in
       agreement with everything except 613.2 and that they look at starting this at a different
       date. He thinks they are looking at November and he would be in favor of going clear
       through the first quarter of next year. He agrees that the City needs to change their codes
       so the builders know what they are building and people know what they are getting. He
       stated there is never a good time to raise fees or change codes, or they would have done
       something since 2002.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he personally thinks the market is soft today. Some
       people say it is terrible, but he believes it is soft, a cycle, and will come back around. He
       stated he is happy to hear that Mr. Holtwick is in agreement.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 25

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have worked very closely as an association with the
       building code officials in Johnson County. He stated most of what they are looking at in
       the codes this evening is consistent with what they are building to in Overland Park and
       Lenexa today. He stated going back to 2000 when the International Codes were
       introduced, their association was one of the strongest proponents, if not the strongest, to
       go to these international codes. He thinks there were some massive changes that
       occurred in the first two or three cycles. He would like to see them considering at some
       point maybe not going every third year and look at every sixth year. He thinks there may
       also be some code officials in the area that might agreement with doing it that way.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated the learning curve on the new code and the cost of the books
       frankly almost makes it prohibitive.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked Mr. Holtwick how they, in his opinion, should work to
       move on 613.2. He stated they can not leave it there forever, so how should they get

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated 613.2 is the window sill height. He stated the International
       Code Council, as they have been told, once that requirement passed asked their staff to do
       a study on how many falling issues there had been from windows. He thinks honestly
       until they see there has been an issue that needs to be addressed they will be fine. He
       stated the code development process is a political process. He stated there are items that
       make it into the code because of strong lobbying and strong product representation. It is
       not a perfect system, but he thinks it works pretty well. He stated from his take right now,
       purely removing it would be the best thing and they will see if the ICC comes back with a
       study that shows a true need for it.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he can understand how it got there, because all it takes is
       one child falling through a window and someone will say it is too low; there are many
       factors why a child might fall out of a window.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated looking at the conversation they have had, she is somewhat
       concerned as a Council that they are going into it backwards. She stated they are all
       looking at a number of items, 613.2, the basement foundation, and the question about
       increasing the fees as things they are concerned about that have the most impact,
       especially in the timeliness. She stated everything else in the codes tightens up some
       things that might have conflicts that would be dealing with the mechanical issues, deals
       with cleaning up some of the verbiage as far as the flashing and tightens up things that
       are necessary.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks they may be throwing the baby out with the
       bathwater by saying they should wait to do anything on the codes until they figure out
       how those things are impacted. She asked why it does not make more sense to adopt all
       the codes, exempting 613.2, and not enforcing it or amending to say „not enforceable
       until that first quarter‟ for those couple of things that really have an impact. She stated if
       they do that, then they can address the things she thinks Chief Codes Administrator
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 26

       Thompson has in there that are very valid points and that other industries need to have in
       place so they do not end up with it becoming a life issue because someone did not hook it
       up because it should have been.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated maybe he misspoke, but that would be his suggestions; that
       the codes be adopted as they are and if they could delay the implementation date
       somewhat that would be good. He stated other than the R613.2 that he has asked to
       possibly delete, they have agreed to all the other amendments.

       Councilmember Kuhn asked if the two that Mr. Holtwick understands from his industry
       that would be the most impact for the cost associated with building them thereby maybe
       decreasing the possibility of more permits being pulled, or decreasing the ability of the
       consumers to maybe be able to afford them, would be the two biggest issues – the
       basement foundation and the fees. She asked about the environmental portion and if it
       adds a lot of cost.

       DAVE HOLTWICK asked Councilmember Kuhn if she is talking about the energy
       efficiency portion.

       Councilmember Kuhn answered yes.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated there are minimum standards that are set on insulation on all
       of those kinds of things. He stated they can go above that. He stated Mr. Rowland talked
       about LEED, which is a commercial based rating system. He stated from residential,
       they believe there are other standards. He stated in fact, the National Association of
       Home Builders has developed a standard that they believe is ANSI rated, which is the
       national association for rating the efficiency of those items. He stated they believe there
       is a different system that is better for that.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have agreed to this energy efficiency code in the past
       and he thinks it makes sense to do, so there are some associated costs. He stated homes
       are built so much better now than when he joined the association eight years ago. He
       stated at that time they tried to get window manufacturers to come speak to the
       association and give a demonstration on how to correctly flash and install windows. He
       stated they were frankly so afraid of it with some of the issues with leaking and mold. He
       stated it is required today that every window manufacturer has to provide that with their
       window. They have to give guidance on how that window should be installed and

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he thinks the codes have progressed a long ways and there
       have been some costs associated with it, but also some savings. He stated took the two
       layers of house wrap for example. He stated one of the studies performed on mold and
       infiltration and stucco issues before showed that second layer of house wrap probably
       made more sense to have that secondary drainage plane, rather than trapping the water
       behind the stucco or molding on the home, get it to that second drainage plane where it
       would then leave the house. He stated that all makes sense. He thinks building science
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 27

       has changed a lot and the new codes have made great progress. He stated they are
       supportive of this, but just think with some of the items if there is a reason for it and there
       is a life safety or energy efficiency reason, they are all about it.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated that was what she was suggesting and can not make an
       actual vote on this committee, but when it would go to Council she would suggest that
       they actually adopt the code exempting the 613.2 and wait to actively enforce the
       portions dealing with the fees, the basement foundations, and really the environmental
       and do it on April 1, 2009. She stated that would get them to the first quarter of the year
       and allow builders to hopefully move some of the inventory and be in a cash position to
       carry some of those things.

       Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to recommend
       the Council adopt the updated construction codes as presented by staff, exempting 613.2,
       with enforcement to begin on April 1, 2009.

       Councilmember Sandifer asked if they are talking about not enforcing anything until
       April 1, 2009.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated they should make the whole change April 1, 2009.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated there is a new code in 2009 and the City will be a curve

       City Manager Gonzales stated they are always a curve behind only because it takes so
       long to look at the new codes.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if the motion addresses the fees.

       Councilmember Sandifer replied after listening to Mr. Holtwick and since he is in charge
       of the Home Builders Association, they have agreed it is not a big issue and he agrees
       with them.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he would second that.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked for clarification of the motion on the floor. Does it include
       increasing the fees and adopting the 2006 resolution without R613.2?

       Councilmember Sandifer answered yes, exactly.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the motion needs to include on the fees aspect to direct the
       codes administrator, because by statute Chief Codes Administrator Thompson is actually
       the one who can make the decision.

       Councilmember Goode stated nothing happens until April 1, 2009.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 28

       Councilmember Straub stated there were two operations for fee increases, one at 18% and
       one at 29%. He stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson recommended the 29% and
       to him that is a huge increase. He stated he does not mind increasing the fees, but
       thought they would do it incrementally every year. He stated granted the City may have
       put this off longer than they should have, but that is a huge job.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated converting the 29% to dollars equates to $200.00. He
       stated 18% equates to $125.00, so going with the 29% is $75.00 more.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he can not see himself voting for an increase right now, plus
       adopting codes that will increase the price of a house, so he is not in favor.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated the 612.3 in reading the notes on the ICC commission
       which is available to anyone who Googles them, the original committee that made the
       decision actually voted to not have the standard which is what the HVA wants. He
       believes there is some clarification as to the height of the window and the maximum
       height is 72. He stated they are talking about fairly tall windows and 100 people died last
       year with the ICC clarification.

       ROBERT ROWLAND stated when the ICC voted not to have the 24 inch, the entire ICC
       group or organization overrode them. He stated perhaps if he may use a small example,
       the Council saying not having that standard is acceptable, they believe that to be correct,
       they are the window group and then the whole organization came back and said that is a
       really important component and 100 people died. He stated there is some flashing cover
       things to keep people from falling through and he does know if they are allowable by the
       standard, they then decided it was important enough to maintain it into the codes.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if 100 people fell through windows that were below 24

       ROBERT ROWLAND replied below 24 inches and 72 inches in height.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he is just asking because maybe 100 people fell out of
       windows including skyscrapers or whatever.

       ROBERT ROWLAND explained the discussion were people who were participants back
       in 2006 – part of the ICC code organization discussions and ended up with the standard
       being if they are greater or lower than a second story window and is 72 inches in
       maximum height. He stated he thinks there are some things the window can not open; it
       is a fixed plate window and still acceptable if he is not mistaken. He believes the intent is
       to protect children from falling through, so they can not pass a 4” sphere through an
       opening. He stated most adults will not fall through windows, but the children.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated he feels as if he may have misled Councilmember Kuhn and
       clarified what he was asking for is if they want to adopt the codes now, but hold off on
       the implementation or enforcement of the entire code because it is a family of codes and
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 29

       he thinks that entire family should be enforced or go into effect the same time, so that
       was why he was asking, adopt them now if they want, but do not implement or enforce
       until at least January 1, 2009. He stated under the example given, if they adopt and
       accept today and say it is their intention to implement these codes at whatever date, they
       need, as an industry, some time to ramp up, gear up, and start making changes.

       DAVE HOLTWICK stated it is not as extensive now, but the rise and rung on stairs
       changed. He stated they can not just change the rise and rung on stairs and it takes time
       for them, as an industry, to adjust to that so that is why he had asked for whatever it
       might be and if they would wait to implement or enforce at a future date.

       Therefore the motion read:

       Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to recommend
       the Council adopt the updated construction codes as presented by staff, exempting 613.2,
       with enforcement to begin on April 1, 2009. The motion tied 2-2, with Councilmembers
       Sawyer and Sandifer voting aye and Councilmembers Pflumm and Straub voting nay;
       therefore, the item will be forwarded with no recommendation

       Councilmember Straub explained his reasoning behind his vote. He stated he is not in
       favor of increasing the fees at this time. He stated they may look at it at a different time,
       but a 29% increase to him is too high.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the motion will move forward to the Council with a tied 2-
       2 vote and be placed on the agenda as is.


       Chairperson Pflumm stated this is the final budget review by the Committee and will
       include a presentation by the City Manager of the most current fund forecasts and what is
       recommended in the 2008Revised and 2009 budget.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the first part of tonight‟s presentation is the one remaining
       fund that has yet to be reviewed – the Convention and Visitor‟s Bureau (CVB) Fund.
       She stated Linda Leeper is here this evening representing the CVB. She stated Ann and
       Lauren are present to speak toWonderscope and will be the first component to tonight‟s
       presentation and will get into the wrap-up later in the evening.

       LINDA LEEPER, Shawnee Chamber of Commerce, stated she is representing for the
       CVB presentation. She started with a very general overview:

              The Shawnee CVB functions under a contract with the Chamber of Commerce
               and operations within an established set of by-laws. The framework for its
               governance is set under city ordinance.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                       PAGE 30

             The CVB Committee is appointed by the Mayor, with the approval of the
              Governing Body and its Executive Committee consists of the CVB Chairman,
              CVB Vice-Chairman, President of the Chamber and the City Manager.
       LINDA LEEPER stated the Executive Committee of the CVB is made up of the 2008
       Chairman, Maria Preston-Cargill, Vice Chairman, Ann Zimmerman, herself, and City
       Manager Gonzales. In addition, there are 12 other members of that volunteer committee.
       Of those members, Councilmember Sandifer and Councilmember Scott represent the City
       Council. They also have Parks and Recreation Director Holman representing the Parks
       and Recreation Department.

       LINDA LEEPER stated the 2008 staffing levels are in line with all the other budget
       presentations. There is one full time employee at the Chamber of Commerce, Kevin
       Fern, who just joined in May of this year. She stated Kevin has a passion for the City and
       will do very well in this position. Also, from the Chamber Board is Vice Chairman Dave

       LINDA LEEPER read the Mission Statement: The Shawnee CVB is a Destination
       Marketing Organization (DMO), whose sole objective is to promote travel and tourism in
       the community through the efficient and effective use of public relations tools and
       promotional activities to create a positive economic impact in the tourism sector of the
       local economy.

       LINDA LEEPER continued with Ongoing Programs.

              Involvement in community and civic events and activities that promote the city as
               a destination for others. (Old Shawnee Days, concerts)

               LINDA LEEPER stated they market the CVB cups which include the website for
               the CVB. They have given out nearly 15,000 of those cups since they started that
               campaign last summer. Obviously, that is an opportunity to market to the

              Continued membership and taking a proactive leadership role in the Travel
               Industry Association of Kansas, Tour Kansas, Kansas City Regional Destination
               Alliance, Kansas City Convention a& Visitors Association and other state and
               regional professional travel & tourism associations and organizations.

               LINDA LEEPER stated they are actually a player and gets their name out there
               and are able to be a part of the overall marketing of the regional area.

              Continued monitoring and further enhancements to the new CVB website
               (, utilizing state of the art technology and tools to
               capture more market share.

               LINDA LEEPER stated 70% of the people getting ready to travel will check
               things out first on the Internet, so the website is extremely important.
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 31

              Continued in-house production of quality and comprehensive Visitor‟s Guides,
               Maps, Events, Calendars, and other collateral needed to promote the Community
               as a destination.

               LINDA LEEPER stated they have software and equipment that they share with
               the other divisions which makes thing very cost efficient for flyers for events and
               activities coming up which is very helpful.

       LINDA LEEPER continued with the 2008/09 Objectives:

              Continue partnership with the city and chamber in the implementation of the
               branding initiative, including enhanced website presence.

               LINDA LEEPER stated they feel like this is extremely important and once they
               get the final results of the branding taskforce back and all its details, they will
               understand why it is extremely important that they get out and support the

              Create a new level of awareness to better attract additional hospitality related
               business investments that will contribute to the objective of diversifying our tax

               LINDA LEEPER stated this has become challenging.

              Maintain the production of high quality and comprehensive print and multi-media
               collateral to promote the community as a destination.

              A 1% increase in the guest occupancy tax, a position supported by the Board of
               the Chamber of Commerce and the CVB Committee.

               LINDA LEEPER stated the Board of Directors has approved this and the CVB
               Committee has approved to recommend to the Governing Body to consider that
               1% increase in guest tax. She stated it might be the same theory as the other, in
               that they might be the lowest in the area. It is actually a tax that obviously visitors
               and travelers come in and pay and the CVB gets the benefit of that tax. She stated
               it is not a tax that is as visible as some taxes. She stated traditionally they do not
               call a hotel and ask about the guest tax. She stated they are currently at 5% and
               all their neighboring cities are at 6%, 7%, and 9%, so Shawnee is at the low point.
               She stated they have discussed this tax and is one of the objectives that the
               Council would consider increasing.

       Councilmember Straub asked what kind of increase does the 1% project.

       LINDA LEEPER replied she believes the 1% increase going from the 5% to 6% would
       generate $61,000 in 2009.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 32

       Councilmember Sawyer stated that would be a 20% increase, it is 1% each point, but a
       20% increase paid for by people coming here to stay.

       LINDA LEEPER continued with the Future Challenges:

              With downturn in the economy and rising gas prices, the likely result will be less
               business travel and shorter distance travel by the leisure consumer, must be able
               to take advance of the opportunity by capturing short trip traveler to hotels and
               other attractions.

               LINDA LEEPER stated some marketing as taken place to make people stay close
               in and visit the attractions near and in Shawnee.

              Competition for new build properties will increase dramatically with challenges in
               the economy, making the potential for new properties remove unless substantial
               tax concessions are available to potential developers.

               LINDA LEEPER stated the competition is very tough. She stated Olathe has a
               new convention center and an Embassy Suites Hotel coming in and have actually
               wavered guest tax to get that facility to come to Olathe and build. She stated they
               are hearing about a lot of abatements and activities coming up in cities that are
               aggressive, so it becomes harder for Shawnee to compete.

               Councilmember Sawyer stated Olathe did not waiver it, but will still charge the
               customer and it goes back. The customer is still paying.

              Preliminary branding data shows that Shawnee is not known as a destination for

               LINDA LEEPER stated that was pretty clear. She stated they got this from the
               research and surveys that related to talking to residents and people from out of the
               area. She stated they are solid about promoting to come to Shawnee and live and
               build a business here, but they do not say enough about coming to Shawnee to
               visit, as there are attractions here and other things to do. She stated that full
               circles around to the Branding and what they can do with that effort.

       Wonderscope Presentation

       ANN ZIMMERMAN introduced Lauran Hess who just started. She stated they want to
       talk a little about Wonderscope and started out by thanking for the appropriation last
       year, the $20,000, to support marketing efforts for Wonderscope and drive tourism. She
       stated she does think this is a wonderful way to leverage the guest tax monies they get
       through the guest tax and hotels. She stated as being a part of the CVB and other
       initiatives in Shawnee, she is excited that Wonderscope can help support that.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 33

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they have a common goal among all those organizations,
       including Wonderscope, which is to attract more visitors to Wonderscope and to
       Shawnee in general. She started with some target advertising. She stated the Council
       was provided with a full comprehensive list in their packet. They do a lot of advertising
       in parenting magazines, tourism publications, and have various coupons and free passes
       out. The have a new sponsorship agreement with The Shawnee Dispatch which has
       really helped leverage the way they advertise in that publication. She stated they have
       online calendars, email blasts, and a real comprehensive way to go out to the media.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated she did want to point out a couple things. She stated they
       were called and asked to be featured in Treasures of the Heartland, a coffee table book,
       being done on Kansas City. She stated on a whim as she was getting ready for this
       presentation, Googled the Kansas City CVB to see if they were represented on that
       website. She was happy to see that without Wonderscope asking them, they were listed
       as one of “Just For Kids Three Things to Try” out in Kansas City. She stated
       Wonderscope has increased its awareness across the metro area, so they are excited to see
       people from across the metro area coming to the museum.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they are very active in Outreach in the community. In the
       past year they have increased the number of places where they go out into the community
       and bring arts and science activities from the Legends and Power & Light District every
       weekend to larger events like the Plaza Art Fair, where they have a 20 X 40 tent. She
       stated this year the brand new music festival, Jiggle Jam, they had a 40 X 40 ten and saw
       over around 4,000 families in a two-day period, so it is a great way for them to get out
       into the community.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated the last two years they have enjoyed the partnership with
       their wonderful new neighbor, Splash Cove. She thanked the Council for bringing them
       to the neighborhood. She stated last year when the pool opened they had a big block
       party to celebrate and did it again this year. She stated they grew from about 300 visitors
       last year to about 1,000 people that day. She stated it was a great day, they had an
       outdoor concert, Radio Disney, and lots of spots on the radio. She stated it was a great
       event and Splash Cove is wonderful to work with and they look forward to growing it
       even more next year.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN asked what the impact to the initiatives to Wonderscope is and to
       the City in general. She stated first of all, they have seen museum visitors increase 25%
       higher in the first quarter of 2008. She stated museum members have increased by 50%
       over June levels last year (2007). She stated they attribute this to a number of things.
       They have a new exhibit and have gone through the merger with the Children‟s Museum
       of Kansas City and gained some new members through that merger. She stated a lot of
       that has been a result of increased marketing. She stated she is proud to see this number
       increase, because it is easy to get someone in the door, but is a whole different thing to
       get them to come back.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 34

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated people that bought memberships are people who want to
       come back on a regular basis and visit the museum. She stated they are thrilled with that
       new number.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Wonderscope members can gain resident accident to Splash
       Cove the Soetaert pool. They are well on track to surpass last year‟s numbers. The
       second graph shows the number of pool memberships that people bought last year as
       compared to this year, so they are up to 41 pool memberships. She stated if they add up
       the revenues, it comes to incremental pool revenues of about $14,000, so they are excited
       their members are enjoying the pool and having a great time when they come to

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Lauran will talk about the rest of this year and where they
       plan on going next year.

       LAURAN HESS stated they merged with Beyond the Book last May, which was an
       emerging children‟s museum. She stated this past May, they merged with the Children‟s
       Museum of Kansas City which has been located at Indian Springs Mall for a long time.
       She stated in the long term, this means that all three organizations that believe in creating
       at the Children‟s Museum are now all working together to create one top quality
       children‟s museum for the Kansas City metro area.

       LAURAN HESS stated in the short term when they close the Indian Springs location on
       August 9th, that means all their current visitors, members, and the recyclable materials
       center, which is a real strength of theirs, and programming that really reaches out to
       underserved audiences, will all move to the Shawnee location.

       LAURAN HESS stated they have been going through a process of exhibit master
       planning since January and developing the educational framework of what they want kids
       to learn and be able to do when they come to them. She stated they are developing new
       exhibit concepts. She presented an early draft concept drawing of their new facility. She
       emphasized that the exhibits and programs in their current location are just going to be
       enriched and expanded into 20,000 square feet of exhibit space in their new location, so
       that is about three times the amount they currently have and are very committed to
       creating a world class destination for the Kansas City metro area.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if they are talking about a new facility and not expanding to
       the current facility.

       LAURAN HESS replied there are a couple of different ways they can go. She stated they
       are looking at a number of different sites. She stated the question that everyone asks is
       about the current site place and they have a site selection team who just met for the first
       time and are looking at site criteria. She stated they are examining all the possibilities of
       staying at the current site, and looking at going into an existing site or possibly doing a
       new build. She stated they are very actively researching options in Shawnee.
JULY 8, 2008                  FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 35

       LAURAN HESS stated they are getting ready to launch a capital campaign. She stated
       typical museums of this size in other communities have been about a $15-20 million
       project, so they have a lot of money to raise. She stated while they are raising that
       money, they are very committed to the current site in creating the wonderful and wonder-
       filled experiences. She stated they will be testing exhibit and program concepts to get
       ready for their new museum and build on their current strengths and on new audiences to
       make sure all the visitors who come to the current site are having a wonderful experience
       and come back again and again.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they love being in partnership with the City and are very
       thrilled to have the City‟s past support and would love their support going forward at the
       same amount ($20,000). She stated they pledge to leverage that and bring even more
       visitors to Shawnee.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated they talk about all the people who come to Wonderscope
       and all those who come to Splash Cove, which is three months a year. He stated he has
       talked to Kevin Fern at great length about this and asked if there is any way to quantify
       what they believe is the number of people who come to Shawnee to these facilities and
       actually spend money elsewhere.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN replied that would be something like an economic impact study.
       She stated they do not have that specifically for Wonderscope, but arts organizations
       across the nation have actually gone in and done those studies where they show that
       people who come here are also going to go out to dinner and do other things. She stated
       her only response would be that the average visitor to Wonderscope is a mom with 2-3
       kids ages 4 and under. She stated being a mom and having kids like that, when they go
       out for the day she can guarantee them there is also a trip to McDonalds and probably the
       store and several other errands along the way trying to be as efficient as possible.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked from where is the average visitor is coming. He stated he
       does not know if Ann can even tell him the answer. He wonders the overall percentage
       of visitors from Shawnee, or from Merriam, or from outside of the Shawnee area. He
       stated there should be a way to figure out if they are getting people from outside of
       Shawnee or if the biggest percentage is from Shawnee.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not want to have to read in the newspaper like he
       did last year when the City gave them $20,000 that Wonderscope has merged and are
       thinking of moving. He stated that was in the newspaper last year shortly after the

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they merged and they were growing. She stated people
       always want to shift that around to make things a little more exciting.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated he did not print the paper.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 36

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated she hopes they do move out of their current situation,
       because she can not bring any more people.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated that is not what it said last year; it said out of Shawnee.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated the newspaper does not always have the correct information.
       He stated Ann and her staff can determine what is correct with their facility.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Lauran addressed it because they did just go through a
       recent merger. She stated those were all very strategic mergers to try to create one
       children‟s museum in Kansas City that might have a chance to raise some money to
       create something fantastic. She stated that was the first step, in that they have to
       strategically put themselves in a market position to do that. She thinks the next step is
       that they now have the combined boards that have to look at the best place for the facility.
       She stated they are looking at a lot of options, including Shawnee.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated his concern is the commitment level is on the board and
       he does not have any idea who is on the board except for Kevin Tubbesing. He stated
       those are concerns that the feels they should concern themselves with and are willing to
       invest in it, but he wonders if the people are committed to wanting to stay in Shawnee.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated if they do not invest anything, it is a good possibility that they
       would not be committed.

       ANN ZIMMERMAN stated it is a one year commitment in terms of the actual donation.
       She stated the reality is that it takes a non-profit a long time to raise $15-20 million. She
       stated she has been at this for a long time and is still not there. She thinks they are
       definitely committed to creating great experiences in 2009 and are looking at a lot of
       different options.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated that was the direction in which she wanted to expand. She
       thinks with Wonderscope they need to look at it at the long term. She stated she can not
       think of anyone on the Council who is probably more actively being at Wonderscope and
       being involved with it and has a real passion for wanting to see it stay, but they also need
       to look at it as what it is, being one of Shawnee‟s destination spots. She stated there is no
       guarantee with anything that a destination spot will be there the next year for whatever
       fiscal reason, or that it will not change or that there will not need to be a move. She
       thinks the best thing they can do is invest in it, so they can make sure that while it is here
       it gives the City the best return on their investment. She thinks they saw that with the
       Splash Cove partnership this last year. She stated if the numbers are accurate, they have
       seen a return on the investment, $20,000 and almost $14,000 coming back in a

       Councilmember Kuhn stated as Ann pointed out, it will take years not only necessarily to
       raise the money, but to build or do and she would love to see it done in Shawnee, but
       until that point in time making sure they are investing in one of their largest draws that
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 37

       also helps the downtown area in Shawnee and something they need to do. She stated
       especially since it is not coming from something that is a general fund. She stated
       supporting things like Wonderscope, the branding campaign, and the CVB are not a
       trade-off on a lane mile or sidewalk. She stated these are a dedicated portion of that
       special visitor‟s tax that are used specifically to continue to generate more tax revenue in
       a different arena such as sales tax and something they need to continue.

       Councilmember Sandifer stated he agrees with Councilmember Kuhn. He stated being
       on the CVB and having the consent of the CVB to use part of their money and funds to
       put towards this organization, he agrees this is probably, again, the best thing to do for

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she attended the block party, both last year at the kickoff,
       and also had the opportunity to attend this year. She stated one thing that was brought to
       her attention is that the block party starts at a relatively earlier portion of the day and the
       pool opens a few hours later. She asked about those start times, if they are actually
       looking to have a partnership between the two facilities.

       Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated there has already been discussion on that
       particular issue. He stated the staff is already at the pool, so opening the pool would
       coincide a little better for the block party in the future.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated if those partnerships continue to grow and making those
       pieces fit together will give the City even more benefit.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks they should get a committee appointed to
       investigate what sites there is available with things that Shawnee can do and find out their

       City Manager Gonzales replied when Jim Allen was the Chairman of the Chamber, he
       appointed a committee that met a couple of times. She stated they just had a study
       performed and Linda Leeper has the book. They are waiting to get past this budget
       period and that committee needs to be reconvened with that exact purpose, to determined
       what it is they need to do, offer, and what kind of package to put together to keep
       Wonderscope in Shawnee, so that action is definitely happening.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if it has been communicated what kind of timeframe their
       committee is going on, as far as site selection is concerned.

       City Manager Gonzales replied the site selection committee is just starting to meet. She
       stated the staff needs to move forward from their standpoint and hopefully over the next
       few months they can put together as much information as possible.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked if there is a rough conceptual drawing of what has been
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                       PAGE 38

       City Manager Gonzales replied the City has some drawings that Bill Yarger did and
       asked him if they decide to stay by Splash Cove, what it could look like.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked if they spent some money on those drawings.

       City Manager Gonzales answered yes, a little money. She stated that would be part of
       what would be included as part of a bigger package.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked if that has been presented to Wonderscope.

       City Manager Gonzales answered no.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if the drawings met their needs, because Wonderscope just
       merged with a third entity. He asked if they just took the current piece of ground and
       made suggestions of what could possibly be done.

       City Manager Gonzales explained the committee, which was formed by the Chamber,
       met and Ann Zimmerman gave a presentation that outlined at that time that the Board had
       gone through and identified square footage needs, visibility needs, among a variety of
       things. Those things were given to Bill Yarger, as well as to an individual who did some
       research for the City to look at what it could look like at their current location to meet
       their needs. These are very preliminary and conceptual. She stated the staff would like
       to define them and incorporate them into a bigger package before they presented anything
       and get more people involved in the process.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he would be interested in seeing them.

       City Manager Gonzales continued with the CVB highlights.

              Revenue enhancement by increasing guest occupancy assessment by 1%, making
               it compatible with the rate in surrounding municipalities, a position supported by
               the Chamber Board and the CVB Committee. This will increase transfer amount
               to CVB and to the General Fund.
              $20,000 support for Old Shawnee Days.
              $20,000 support for Wonderscope Children‟s museum of Kansas City.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the City Council has to approve the 1% increase. She
       stated her recommendation would be to bring resolution on July 28th to implement on
       January 1, 2009 and the Council will make their final decision at that time. She stated
       she has spoken with the ownership of both hotels who said that no one likes to increase
       taxes, but understands that everyone else around them are at that rate and they certainly
       will not oppose it.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the $20,000 for Old Shawnee Days and to support
       Wonderscope comes off the top and the remaining just gets split and whatever does come
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 39

       in is transferred to the General Fund and an allocation to the Convention and Visitors

       City Manager Gonzales stated the tourism tax increase is 2% over 2008 and the 1%
       increase in the tax overall, resulting in a projection of about $61,000 for the 2009 budget.

       Councilmember Straub asked about the $20,000 to Old Shawnee Days and Wonderscope
       and if City Manager Gonzales said the remainder gets split into the General Fund.

       City Manager Gonzales explained 50% of the remainder goes into the General Fund to
       fund Shawnee Town. She stated it has to be used to fund tourism or economic
       development efforts. She stated that portion is offset to subsidize the General Fund
       expenditures for Shawnee Town and the other 50% goes to the CVB for their
       marketing/tourism efforts.

       City Manager Gonzales stated a new hotel has been approved and they will hopefully
       begin construction soon. She stated they did not project an increase until 2010 for that

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if there are any stats.

       City Manager Gonzales replied they have not been contacted by IRBs yet, which would
       probably be one of the first steps. She stated the plan is approved and ready to go, in
       terms of the Planning Commission and the City Council‟s approval.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that part.

       City Manager Gonzales stated they did come back to the Planning Commission about two
       weeks ago and actually had a change to ownership and had some minor changes for them
       to change. She stated they are obviously still actively working on the project.

       Break: 9:15 p.m.
       Meeting resumed at 9:23 p.m.

       City Manager Gonzales stated she will give some overview comments this evening and
       review each fund. She stated they have already been through them so she will not spend
       much time on every fund, but when they were presented on earlier dates not everything
       was final, so her presentation this evening is her recommended 2008E and 2009 budget.
       She stated this is the time for the Council to tell her if they do not want to do something
       and would rather do something else, ask questions, or bring up issues. She stated they
       have talked about most of this before, so there will not be many surprises. She stated the
       staff has worked very hard over the last two weeks to bring things together.

       City Manager Gonzales stated as much as she would like to say that this budget is going
       to be over in July, it will not be because they can not continue the pace they are
       continuing of spending more than they are bringing in. She stated this budget mandates
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 40

       things, but they are going to have to keep talking about choices in the future and she will
       talk further about that later in the presentation.

       City Manager Gonzales stated she has talked about the concept of Fiscal Capacity. She
       stated the City has resources, revenues, and services that cost money. She stated they can
       only provide services that can be afforded within the resources they have. She presented
       some Internet definitions of Fiscal Capacity. The ability to pay for services provided in a
       community. It reflects the way City funds are collected and allocated to meet the needs of
       its residents.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the City‟s Fiscal Capacity is affected by a lot of things. It
       is affected by state law that gives them certain revenue sources to use and there is only
       certain ways they can raise money. She stated it is affected by different government roles,
       i.e. the school districts and counties. She stated it is affected by, most importantly, and
       probably the biggest challenge today by the economy, so that is why the City is really in
       their current position. She stated it is affected by the tax base that shapes the fiscal
       capacity to create revenue.

       City Manager Gonzales stated to assess the financial where-with-all is what they do when
       they are determining fiscal capacity. She stated they need to determine if they can carry
       on their current activities and commitments in the fiscal capacity they have and assume
       anything new for debt and capital infrastructure. She asked if they can expand or take on
       new programmatic services. She stated the staff has talked about that they can barely
       carry on what they are currently doing and will not be able to in the future with the City‟s
       current fiscal capacity.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the assessment is based on many means. She stated these
       are obviously fiscal decisions and are political. She stated they are the biggest policy
       decisions that the Council is elected to make and are very hard decisions.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the City‟s fiscal capacity and all their revenue in all
       funds in one slide. She stated it shows the 2009 budget as she is presenting tonight and is
       recommending and based on whatever input the Council gives tonight, they will bring
       back a notice next Monday, July 14, 2008, for publication of the maximum tax level they
       would implement.

       City Manager Gonzales presented charts showing the services provided by the City‟s
       current fiscal capacity – the costs for all the things they do; the services provided to the
       community. She stated these have been defined in Programs, which is a new concept for
       the staff. She stated if they have to start looking not being able to afford services, they
       can be looked at in terms of what services should they not do anymore and have just
       started determining that process of defining and have yet to cost these things out in the

       City Manager Gonzales stated as the staff approached this budget, to reiterate, they have
       tried to keep their values in mind.
JULY 8, 2008                     FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                      PAGE 41

                  Citizen Engagement
                  Fiscal Responsibility
                  Community Pride
                  Decisions for the Greater Good
                  Sound Management

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff has worked at these things long and hard. She
       thinks community pride makes all of this very hard, because the City is so proud of what
       they do and it is hard to quit doing some things.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff has tried to keep their strategic goals as whole as
       possible with the budget she will present and has been talked about.

       Economic Development
           Support and promote quality development to create a sustainable community
            providing a high quality of life.

       Environmental Sensitivity
           Support and promote opportunities to experience and foster a more sustainable
             and environmentally-sensitive Community.

       Enhancing the Sense of Community
          Work together as a community to build upon what has been established over the
            past 150 years.
          Continue to provide the highest quality of life for all citizens including public
            safety for all businesses and citizens, keeping our community a beautiful place
            to live and providing opportunities for our youth population.

       Living Within our Means
           With flat revenues and increasing expenses, make choices with regard to what
              levels of service the community will accept and will support financially.
           Maximize efficiencies in operations and revenues must be maximized prior to
              proposing significant cuts in services.

       City Manager Gonzales stated certainly living within their means has risen to prominence
       in the goals this year. She stated they talked about this earlier in the budget session, in
       that they need to determine what they are going to do and do it well. She stated that helps
       staff continue to have pride in what they do.

       City Manager Gonzales stated she will present fund by fund and try to go through the
       budgets for 2008 and 2009 quickly. She stated Finance Director Kidney will talk about
       revenues up front, because some of the revenue numbers have been moving targets.

       Finance Director Kidney stated obviously in a municipal government, resources are tax
       based. He presented a graph showing that taxes represent 82% of the City‟s total
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 42

       revenue. He stated when they are focusing on their revenue projections, they are really
       spending a lot of time on that 82%, not to say the remaining amount is not important. He
       reported on a couple of things that have changed since the last time they presented

       Finance Director Kidney stated most of the things on non-tax are things where they have
       not really seen any change since the last time he took the Council through them. He
       stated the projections on the chart have not really changed at all and there might be a
       $100 here or there that has changed. He stated interest income might be a little light in
       the new projection, but he does not want to increase it more than it sits right now given
       the market. He stated the staff just restructured to how they do investments and think
       they will come in a little higher than the $603,000.

       Finance Director Kidney stated he broke down the tax portion to show it in perspective.
       He stated 43% of the City‟s total taxes are property taxes. He stated that is a real
       understood stable amount they can calculate. He stated the one big unknown has always
       been what the assessed value is going to be. He stated in the past Shawnee has always
       been 7-8% assessed valuation – historically. He stated last year when the staff put
       together the projections for 2009 long term, they were looking at 5% this year and
       obviously it was down. He stated the staff knew it was going to be down, so they
       anticipated a 1.5% assessed valuation increase. He stated the staff just received the
       numbers and it came in at an increase of .06%, so basically it was flat.

       Finance Director Kidney presented Assessed Valuation for Ad Valorem Taxes. It include
       the 2006 tax year for the 2007 budget, the 2007 tax year for the 2008 budget, and the
       April 1st estimate had real estate in at $693,038,135 assessed value and actually came in
       at $686,121,098 which is not quite the increase they hoped to see. He stated Personal
       Property had been anticipated at a 12% drop and it dropped more than that from $40
       million down to $33 million. He stated that is directly attributable to two years ago with
       the exempted new equipment for taxation. He stated with the State assessed utilities, they
       are told they typically just should estimate it the same as the previous year as it does not
       vary much, but actually dropped a million dollars, so as a result from the time the staff
       presented on April 1st until today, it did drop. He pointed out a typo. He stated the $18.5
       million is the amount not including delinquencies. He stated it should be more around
       $17.8 million, so the actual drop is around $260,000 in property taxes from what was
       originally estimated in 2009 back in April.

       Finance Director Kidney stated the 5% he anticipated in 2008 to what actually came in,
       was a drop of around $900,000 from the original projections last year.

       Councilmember Sawyer asked if on the Personal Property portion, that is the decrease
       where the State changed to bring new business into the area, so the City would have to
       bring in “X” number of new commercial to make up for it.

       Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 43

       Councilmember Sawyer stated that is like giving a tax abatement that did not happen.

       Finance Director Kidney stated that is right. He stated that is not taxed obviously as new
       businesses do come in and they are buying new equipment.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated the theory was that more commercial was going to come.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked about miscellaneous on the All Budgeted Funds. He asked if
       that is just revenues in general. He stated Miscellaneous is the biggest number outside of
       Interest Income and dropped in the 2008E.

       Finance Director Kidney stated there are transfers going in and out to each fund a lot of
       the time. A lot of that is inter-fund transfers. He stated when the staff presents the
       budget next Monday, those will be netted back out, but because they have to budget the
       revenue inside of it and expend the transfer going back out, they are grossing up the
       revenue for transfers in and grossing up expenditures for transfers out. He stated the
       majority of that number is literally transfers from one number to the other under

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if it is really not a net revenue decrease of $2 million

       Finance Director Kidney replied not under Miscellaneous – no.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if there is a net revenue decrease of $2 million due to
       miscellaneous items, so really the net revenue decrease is probably 90% due to interest

       Finance Director Kidney asked Chairperson Pflumm if he meant the Net Revenue

       Chairperson Pflumm answered yes.

       Finance Director Kidney explained that interest income is a lot of this. He stated from
       the original 2008 budget to 2008R, the majority is in the sales tax.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated those were just projections and he is talking about from
       Actual to Revised.

       City Manager Gonzales stated those are projections for the rest of 2008.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated that is knowledge to date, so most of that is basically interest.

       Finance Director Kidney stated for the actual drop in revenue from the prior year would
       mostly be interest – that is correct.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 44

       Finance Director Kidney presented the Tax Detail which basically details out the tax
       portion showing the Revised versus the 2009 budget. He stated most of the property tax
       is flat as was just addressed. He stated they are basically seeing in the County and City
       tax a 2% for the retail sales portion, both from the City portion of the County side and
       also the City sales tax. They are also seeing a flat for the Use Tax from 2008 to 2009
       and that is anywhere from an impact of about $1.2 million from what was originally

       Finance Director Kidney stated the second group is the County Sales Tax. He stated the
       staff broke out Sales and Use Tax for the special school sales tax passed by the County.
       He stated the staff anticipates the County Public Safety passing, so they just renamed an
       account number to show that break in the 2007 Actual, 2008, and 2008R budgets. He
       stated the school tax goes away, but right underneath shows a Public Safety Sales Tax
       coming back on and that is a 2% increase that they are anticipating.

       Councilmember Straub asked if that is the one coming up on the ballot in August.

       Finance Director Kidney answered yes.

       Councilmember Straub asked if they would take that out if it does not pass.

       Finance Director Kidney answered obviously they would have to take it out.

       Councilmember Straub asked Finance Director Kidney if he expects it to pass.

       Finance Director Kidney replied he thinks they all hope it passes. He stated the way they
       would like to present a budget is with that money included, so they set the maximum
       expenditures based on it and if it does not pass they will come back this fall or the early
       part of 2009 and revise back down those expenditures to match it.

       Chairperson Pflumm stated he would lean the other way, but that is alright.

       Finance Director Kidney stated there are the Hotel Occupancy Tax referred to earlier by
       City Manager Gonzales and other various taxes. He stated they are anticipating an
       overall around a 2% increase which is somewhat of a historical average for those items.
       He stated the staff is seeing a little increase in some of the utilities for the Commercial
       portion. He stated the expense side got hit with several of those, so again it is a
       percentage of total revenue and the City portion would increase slightly.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked about the Stormwater Utility, because he thought that was
       pretty static. He stated they have a 2006 at $1.6 million, which he knows is not much of
       a change, but then there is a revised amount of $1.598 million, $18,000, and wonders
       why that particular tax would change.

       Finance Director Kidney explained it is based on impervious services. He stated they did
       not see as many building permits come in.
JULY 8, 2008                  FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 45

       Finance Director Kidney stated that was just a quick overview, but reiterated that some of
       the major changes was property tax and they are still around the same place they were a
       couple weeks ago when they presented sales tax.

       Neighborhood Revitalization Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this fund‟s primary revenue sources are the transfer from
       the General Fund and sponsors and donations for downtown programs, as well as the
       rebate the City gets back from the program. She presented the expenditures as proposed
       in 2008E and 2009.

       City Manager Gonzales stated when Planning Director Chaffee presented that fund, they
       recommended starting to take the 10% that the City was getting back through the rebates
       and use that to fund the grant programs, which is a great offset and reduces the amount of
       General Fund transfer they might have to make and provides a great reinvestment into the
       downtown area.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in 2009 they further reduced the contribution towards the
       downtown revitalization. She stated the goal has been to try to reduce that over time and
       it will probably never go away and hopes it never has to go away.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, the grant and interest Buy-Down Program
       requires the Council review those annually, so the staff will continue to bring those back
       and hopefully continue to be able to support the downtown revitalization efforts, as they
       have been very successful. She stated they would certainly love to do a Nieman Road
       improvement some day and there is a subcommittee of the Downtown group who meets
       and are talking about what they would like to see. She stated it is not in a plan at this
       time anywhere, but certainly on people‟s minds as a future project for the City.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the forecast fund for the future, showing a continued
       reduction hopefully in the General Fund transfer.

       Public Safety Equipment Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is the fund that is a partial mill levy. The City uses
       this fund to fund the large equipment in Police and Fire. She stated in 2008 and 2009 the
       Fire Department expenditures out of that fund, which Fire Chief Hudson already went
       over with the Council, is the truck that they ordered last year and expected delivery. She
       stated American LaFrance has declared bankruptcy and there has been a delay, but
       believe they are still building or getting ready to build the truck. She stated there is
       another one approved by the Council a few weeks ago that should be delivered in eight or
       nine months, as it takes a while to build them. She stated that is the increased lease
       payment in 2009.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 46

       City Manager Gonzales stated there is some vehicle replacement in 2008 and there is the
       $35,000 that they hope to leave in those accounts for smaller equipment on an as-needed
       basis. She stated this year the Fire Department committees recommend buying AED‟s
       with that money to update the technology that has already been approved by the Council.
       She stated next year they will look at using that money for bumper gear, which is
       probably something they would have funded out of the General Fund in the past, but
       fortunately there is some room in this fund to make that happen.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the Police Department expenditures from this fund in2008
       will be the replacement of regular police vehicles. She stated they have not yet
       determined the purpose of the equipment fund (the $35,000) in 2008. She stated in 2009,
       as mentioned by Police Chief Morgan, the Police Department significantly reduced their
       replacement in order to be able to replace the in-car video system, moving from a VHS
       technology to a DVD technology and to also purchase a new narcotic‟s K-9 to replace the
       dog that is retiring.

       City Manager Gonzales stated hopefully the City can continue to use this fund to replace
       Fire and Police vehicles. She stated the City does have a big expenditure looming out
       there in the County-wide radio project and are hoping to get some County money. She
       stated there are applications and committees meeting to work towards that and it would
       be very helpful to Shawnee. She stated if they do not readjust their schedule and do not
       get any grant money for the County-wide project, then as seen on the graph, in 2011 the
       fund balance will go below the line and the City would either have to stretch out their
       replacements or consider a mill increase for that fund.

       Special Narcotics Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is money that comes from drug taxes and is very hard
       to predict the revenue in this fund. She stated the staff looked at past years and this fund
       averages about $19,000 a year. She stated the money has to be used on drug-related,
       police-related activities. She stated Police Chief Morgan mentioned that the Police
       Department plans on purchasing some of the cold fired extinguishers and for those who
       attended the Lenexa meeting, they saw the presentation on these. She stated the City
       staff met with Lenexa and looked into it and thought it was a very good investment. She
       stated the staff does not yet have any identified needs for this fund in 2009.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, this is a fund that has restrictions on how
       they can spend this money. She stated it is not a lot of money, but certainly helpful to
       have that fund available. She stated the funding has reduced some because in 2006, the
       undercover drug position was eliminated because the Police Department needed to use
       that staffing in a different area. She stated they only spend what they received in this

       Special Park and Recreation Fund
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 47

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is the money that comes from the liquor tax. She
       stated it has to be divided into thirds. One-third goes to Parks and Recreation, about
       $180,000 per year. She stated the staff has somewhat identified this fund as a fund to be
       able to be used to further the Shawnee Town strategic plan, with some other projects that
       can be cash funded. She stated the staff is trying to cash fund with their special funds any
       projects now, which has been a great thing for the Debt Service Fund.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the one new thing in this fund since the Council saw it
       earlier in the budget process, is that the staff has spread some things out a little further in
       order to get a $97,000 fund balance each year that can be transferred to the Debt Service
       Fund to make the debt payment for Pioneer Crossing. She stated the staff is trying to find
       every way possible to use these special funds, not necessarily for operations because that
       would not really be a wise thing, but to help offset some of the Debt Service Fund and
       General Fund expenditures and were able to do that with this fund in 2008 and again in

       City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, this will probably be the fund where the
       Deffenbaugh contribution will go. She stated they have not met with them yet and
       Charlie Wetzler who represents that foundation retired last night from his City attorney
       duties and hopefully he will be more free to meet with the staff in next few weeks and
       they will get together with him to work out whatever it was that Deffenbaugh wants to
       contribute to and in the future, they will hopefully be able to continue to fund the debt
       payment for Pioneer Crossing out of this fund. She stated the City pays as they go with
       this fund, as it is a cash fund.

       Special Alcohol Abuse Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated another third of that liquor tax has to be used for drug
       abuse programs by State statute. She stated the City does use this fund and is probably
       the one special fund the City uses to fund people, the three people in their D.A.R.E.
       officer program, which is about $150,000 in 2008 and $160,000 in 2009. She stated the
       City also uses this money which goes to the Drug and Alcohol Council, which is the
       agency in Johnson County under the umbrella of UCS that allocates out to agencies. She
       stated they do all the due diligence to determine that the agencies are functioning,
       handling their programs well, and providing good service. She stated that is a service
       that UCS provides to the City and they allocate some of this money to them. It shows a
       5% increase in that allocation for 2009.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, funding those officers out of this fund, if they
       continue doing that, will not continue having enough capacity by 2013, so the City will
       have to make other decisions prior to that time.

       Park and Recreation Land Use Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is a fund where the fees come with the building
       permits – the park fees. She stated this is generally a very small fund of about $100,000,
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 48

       but over the past six years they have allocated the County sales tax to that because the
       Council approved a resolution that directed the staff to use that funding for aquatic
       facilities and has been used for Soetaert the last three years prior and has been used this
       year to cash fund almost the entire east pool which is an amazing thing. She stated it has
       been a great help.

       City Manager Gonzales stated it shows in 2009 that money not continuing to come to this
       fund and she will show the Council where they put that money later in the presentation.

       City Manager Gonzales stated there is about $1.9 million left to pay out and finish off the
       east pool funding. The Sister City Park will be able to be cash funded and the staff has
       plugged in some needed repairs to the lazy river which would normally be an operational
       cost that the staff would like to fund with the General Fund, but is an expense they moved
       into this fund and stretched some other things out in the future and slowed some things
       down in order to fund that out of this fund.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in 2011 there is $100,000 identified to begin to discuss a
       concept and perhaps a design for a west community center, but the staff does not know
       what $100,000 will get them. She stated they also show improvements to the east sand
       pit park at $300,000 in 2012. She stated that is on the east side of K-7, the pond/lake that
       Holliday Sand and Gravel is giving to the City and the City of Bonner Springs which will
       be a shared fishing pond/park. She stated the City will have some improvements to make
       once they are out of there.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the City only spends what they have and a decrease in
       revenue is shown on the chart when the sales tax is no longer in the fund.
       Parks and Pipes Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this fund is the one-eighth of a cent for stormwater and
       parks. She stated it is divided half and half. She stated in 2008, the parks side funding is
       recommended for Quivira Glenn which has been approved. She stated there are the Clear
       Creek Trail Phase I and the improvements to West Flanders. She stated those are the
       contracts the Council just saw recently. She stated there was not enough of a fund
       balance to finance Quivira Glenn all in one year, but they could make it work over a two
       year period and not have any additional projects in 2009.

       City Manager Gonzales stated on the Pipes side, the SMAC matching projects, are
       projects the Council has seen and heard Stormwater Manager Gregory talk about in the
       past. She stated these projects have been approved to move forward in 2008 and 2009.

              Johnson Drive to 59th West of Flint
              Brianwood North
              Monticello Meadows II
              70th and Flint
              52nd Terrace and Barton to Nieman
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 49

       City Manager Gonzales stated Future Fund Highlights include:

              Total resources for life of fund $18,680,519
              Revenue stream will end in 2015

       City Manager Gonzales stated there has been $9.3 million raised for both Parks and
       Stormwater out of this fund. She stated the fund spends what it brings in for the purposes
       that are approved.

       Cemetery Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated the City has had the columbarium approved, which will be
       a big one-time expense and from that point forward the staff does not anticipate any big
       projects and simply need to maintain enough reserves to continue mowing the grass,
       keeping things looking nice, and repairing things as they need repair. She stated the staff
       will probably look again at the fees just to make sure they stay in the market.

       Stormwater Utility Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated Stormwater Manager Gregory gave a thorough
       presentation a few weeks ago on this fund. She stated they do transfer $309,000 out of
       this fund towards curb and gutter inlet repairs as part of the Mill and Overlay Street
       Maintenance Program in 2008. She stated in 2009, some of the projects include looking
       at doing an application for a grant for an R&D project. She stated the 50 th and Nieman
       culvert replacement is a big project scheduled for 2009.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff is recommending buying the street sweeper out of
       the Stormwater Utility Fund. She stated the City needs a new street sweeper and it
       absolutely meets the criteria for stormwater maintenance and is not something in the past
       they ever anticipated buying out of this fund, but is a very appropriate way to use the
       money and is how the staff recommends getting it.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the ordinance for stormwater utility does require a 5-year
       review of the program and will be doing that in 2009. She stated the staff will probably
       bring the Council some information in 2009 along with recommendations for the future.
       She stated this is a good mechanism saying they are five years into it, how they are doing,
       and if they are accomplishing what they want to accomplish or if there is any change in
       direction and if the fees are funding the program adequately. She stated they will
       continue to use that fund to implement the mandated NPDES standards.

       Public Safety Sales Tax Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is the sales tax approved by the voters for construction
       of the Justice Center and Fire Station No. 72. She stated they have been able to cash fund
       some of the expenses and save the cost of debt on those. She stated the City began the
       bond payments in 2008. That fund will only be used for bond payments. She stated if
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 50

       sales tax does not get better then at some point the green line on the chart will drop below
       the line, but they hope that it takes an upward turn.

       Special Highway Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated this is the fund with the big change. She stated when they
       started the budget process, the City was at 11% reserves and in order to get to 35%
       reserves, which is the City‟s goal, they needed $6.6 million. She stated it is very hard to
       find $6.6 million.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in 2009 the City will not do a Mill and Overlay Program.
       She stated they will take the $1.7 gas tax money, which by law has to be spent on street
       and road improvements, and transfer it to the Debt Service Fund to help pay debt on the
       many street and road capital projects the City has and has debt on. She stated the City
       still has some money in this fund, the transfer from the Stormwater Utility, and that work
       would still be done in 2009 along with some miscellaneous maintenance money.

       City Manager Gonzales stated due to the drop in the revenues talked about many times by
       Finance Director Kidney, the recommendation is to use that gas tax for essentially
       operations, because they have made the transfer into the Debt Service Fund and then
       transfer 1.4 mills from the Debt Service Fund to the General Fund.

       City Manager Gonzales stated in 2008 the Special Highway Budget was $1,083,000 for
       drainage and curbs and $1,195,000 for mill and overlay. She reminded the Council that
       they eliminated the $1 million transfer in 2008, so they reduced the projects and cut the B
       List things. She stated in 2009, the staff still recommends the $339,000 transfer from the
       Stormwater Utility and transferring the entire $1,748,500 into the Debt Service Fund.

       City Manager Gonzales stated they will also see some General Fund Savings from not
       doing a mill and overlay in 2009. She stated they will not have to hire the part-time
       inspectors which will save them some in the General Fund payroll. She stated the City
       can not eliminate a program like that forever, so it is a Band-Aid fix at this time, but not
       the only fix. She stated it is the biggest service level decrease and the thing that scares
       her the most, is that it is something the public does not see immediately and over time if
       they do not repair the streets, they start looking bad and the whole appearance of the
       community diminishes. She stated she does want to let that happen is knows the Council
       does not either, so when this budget is over, it is really not over, because they have to
       address this issue and figure out how to have a street maintenance program with a
       funding source that will fund the program.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked about the white topping program they were doing at the
       stoplights, where they milled up and put down asphalt.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth stated with this year‟s program, there were six or
       seven locations where during the past two winters there has been deterioration of
       concrete in quite a bit of the surface areas. He stated they bid it two ways; one just to
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 51

       repair the damaged concreted and secondly, to mill it all out and put in a more stable type
       of asphalt. He stated what they are seeing with results around the area is that it does a
       push and shove, like they have had problems 10 years ago with asphalt areas at
       intersections. He stated it was bid both ways the cheapest way was to mill out all of it,
       rather than just doing the spot patches in some locations. If it was just a small area, it
       was still more economical to just do the repair.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in some areas throughout town, they are just
       repairing a few spots within those intersections and at several locations have taken them
       completely out.

       Chairperson Pflumm asked if the staff looked at concrete sealers to get a little more life
       out of them.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth replied they have sealed those in the past on occasion,
       but not every year. He stated they attempt to do 10-15% each year and is not sure they
       will be able to get to it this year.

       Councilmember Sawyer stated some of the intersections, for instance Quivira Road at
       Johnson Drive was not put in all that long ago. He stated the ones that have been dug
       out seem to be the newer concrete.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he does not have offhand the age of the various
       locations where they did the repairs this year. He stated the oldest they have had is only
       about 11 to 12 years old, because they did the first one about 12 years ago in 1996/1997.
       There has been a few each year over the past 10 years. He does not have the details on
       that with him this evening, but it is possible about that particular intersection.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they do strength testing on the concrete as they
       put it down, but that still does not guarantee that durability of the surface will be there
       when they use the salts they use for snow removal activities on ice control, especially at
       intersections and freeze/thaw cycles over the past few years which make a big difference
       in road surfaces holding up.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she is sure the staff has looked at it, but Public Works
       Director Freyermuth mentioned the salt that deteriorates the concrete quicker. She stated
       someone brought to her attention back around Christmastime that there is a lot of new
       salt-type product that is supposed to be specifically designed, so it is not obviously sale
       per se, but designed to achieve the same results as far as keeping it from being slick and
       melting snow, but does not have whatever it is that salt has that destroys the concrete.
       She stated this material is more expensive rather than just buying salt, but is supposed to
       have significantly less impact on the surfaces, so there may not be quite a much need to
       overlay. She asked if that is something being discussed in the industry.

       Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes. He stated the staff has looked into
       some and probably need to do more because there are new products coming out all the
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 52

       time. He stated last year a form of beet juice was being tested in Missouri. He is not sure
       of the exact details on its success, but that was one item they looked into. He stated the
       City has used some in the past.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks she remembers someone from the NLC out in
       Reno that had a couple of places talking about it. She stated for some reason brine, the
       stuff pickles come in, was something they were working on. She stated she knows this
       year the City has made a number of cuts in things that would really have good long term
       savings, such as the stoplight purchases instead of leasing, etcetera, so it is not an option
       at this time, but as they start looking into the next year if that is something that is a viable
       option, her understanding is not only to have that benefit and with the mill and overlay
       stretching maybe it is even better to make sure that while they are stretching it, it is in as
       good of shape as possible.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated secondly, they were also talking about a number of those
       products maybe being more environmentally friendly instead of just going back into the
       water flow.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the Special Highway Fund forecast. She stated it looks
       somewhat different because of the changes being recommended this year. She stated she
       hopes they can get back to a mill and overlay program with this source of funding and
       hopefully other sources. She stated as Public Works Director Freyermuth talked about
       the program, he mentioned the gas tax is not enough in the past to fund to the goals. She
       stated in the past, the City has had the transfer from the General Fund and is obviously
       not possible this year, but is an area they are going to have to address.

       Debt Service Fund

       City Manager Gonzales stated the changes include the transfer from the Special Highway
       Fund. She stated it includes the transfer in 2008 and in 2009 from the Park and Land Use
       Fund from Pioneer Crossing. She stated they have stopped the transfer from the General
       Fund. She stated they had a transfer from the General Fund into the Debt Service Fund in
       the past. Another reduction the staff made to the General Fund was to eliminate that half
       a million dollars.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the staff recommends transferring the $1.7 million into the
       Debt Service Fund in 2009 and the Land Use Fund transfer. She stated that gave them a
       net increase in the Debt Service Fund, just looking at those three sources, of $942,000
       which gave them some room in fund balance in 2009 to transfer 1.4 mills, which is about
       $1 million, into the General Fund.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the forecast also represents some savings and the staff
       hopes to bring a refinancing issue to the Council soon of about $100,000 that Finance
       Director Kidney has been working with Springsted on and obviously the CIP has not yet
       been approved. She stated the staff will bring forward to the Council a CIP in September,
       one that will work with the adopted budget.
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 53

       City Manager Gonzales stated the numbers are probably a little different than those the
       Council saw earlier, because the staff has been working on them and with them as they
       have done the budget, but includes the projects that are out there in the years they
       anticipate bonding them and not the years they anticipate building them. She stated that
       is an illustration of what creates the annual debt payment.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the Debt Service Fund graph. She stated it is okay in
       the short term, but shudders to think what would have happened if it did not have the
       three mills they put in it two years ago. She stated they had this discussion at that time.

       Councilmember Distler stated she was emailed a question today that she forgot about
       earlier, but on Monticello Road the person wants to know if the study of the pipeline is
       part of that total in the project for that fund, or does it come out of another fund.

       City Manager Gonzales replied at this point all the costs related to the Monticello Road
       project would be included in a project fund; all the City costs related to that project. She
       stated this is the budgeted amount at this point. She stated it is the amount the City
       would bond and not necessarily the full amounts of the project, because if there is CARS
       funding, or CMAC funding, those would be in addition to these numbers, so this is just
       the amount of the projects the City would debt finance. She stated these are numbers that
       the staff has been playing with. She stated one thing they are looking at, like with
       Monticello North, are some more cost effective solutions. She stated right now there is
       $5.4 million in here and maybe by September when they bring it before the Council, the
       staff will have some answers and can reduce that amount, but this is the current draft of
       the projects out there.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks last year the State approved for the 2009 year
       LAVTR (Local Ad Valorem Tax Reduction) being put back in. She knows they have not
       mentioned by any stretch of the imagination how that is planning to be broke down or
       allocations to specific cities, so if they assume they get the Good Fairy to give them some
       LAVTR money this year, then where would it go.

       Finance Director Kidney stated it is actually local ad valorem tax reduction, so they
       allocate it to the funds that there is a property tax and theoretically lower the property tax.

       City Manager Gonzales stated it would go to any of the funds that had property tax.

       Councilmember Kuhn stated it is between each one of them, so every one that has a mill
       attached to it would go and break it down in that proportion.

       Finance Director Kidney stated he will say that in the past, LAVTR has been distributed
       to each of the cities. He thinks it was something around $50 million that was distributed.
       He stated the allocation they are talking about is around $6-7 million and if the City did
       receive it, it would be around $20,000 to maybe $50,000, but it is hard to say because he
       has talked to his surrounding peers and no one is putting it in their budget.
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                            PAGE 54

       Councilmember Kuhn stated the League of Kansas Municipalities even said they should
       not count on it, allocate it, or plan for it and she is not, but was just curious as to where it
       might fall if it does come through.

       City Manager Gonzales stated the history the Council has seen before of actuals and fund
       balances moving forward, as well as reserves the City has had in the past and some
       significant increases in the past in revenue and expenditures, along with some decreases
       seeing as revenues have gotten flat and things have not gotten cheaper, obviously that is
       why the City has been spending more of their reserves and pushing that level down.

       City Manager Gonzales stated last year the staff targeted 35% as what they wanted to
       have as reserves. She stated the staff wanted to show Moody‟s that they were not going
       to continue the trend of spending more than they were able to afford and spending down
       their reserves and setting the goal at 35% and budgeted to it.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the General Fund Reserves dated May 6, 2008. She
       noted the $6.9 million they needed at that point to get there. She stated this included
       initial department budgets as they came in. She stated the staff plugged them in and is
       where they were at, at that point.

       City Manager Gonzales presented the budget the staff is at today and the one she
       recommends. She stated it does not have a 35% reserve. She stated they just could not
       figure out how to get there without making some serious decisions. She stated Finance
       Director Kidney has talked with Springsted, the City‟s financial advisor, and if many of
       them would talk to their peers 30% is actually a high level of reserves. She stated she
       does not think anyone is concerned that there is not enough reserves, but have been
       concerned in the pattern, as the staff has been concerned, of continually spending down
       their reserves. She stated this continues that pattern a little.

       City Manager Gonzales stated she thinks the important thing in the future will be to have
       a plan and have things they can say of how they plan on building it back up, what they
       are cutting out, and how they are going to enhance revenues. She stated the budget she is
       recommending is 30%. She stated it is a 3% less budget. She stated looking at actual
       expenditures in 2007 of $30.9 million it is less than actual expenditures of 2007. She
       stated they can see the substantial changes of 2008 to 2008E. Those are the changes the
       staff has made over the past few weeks.

       City Manager Gonzales explained how they got there, and most the Council has heard
       this before, but one thing was the Employee Benefit Fund and the staff thought they
       might be able to gain some fund balance by moving it in there. She stated they felt like
       from an accounting and municipal budgeting standpoint, it was a good idea to merge that
       so when they begin to look at programs, they can truly identify the costs of the programs
       more accurately.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 55

       City Manager Gonzales stated in reality what happened, is that it was almost a wash and
       they actually probably lost a little in terms of reserves, because as a percent of revenue, it
       did not help the General Fund. She still thinks it is a good thing to do and this is as good
       a year as any to do it. She stated the staff is going to start looking at their programs long
       and hard and to have these numbers combined so they can better accurately calculate
       program costs is, she believes, a good thing.

       City Manager Gonzales stated other things in the 2008/09 budget include:

              Combines the Employee Benefit Fund with the General Fund

              Eliminates General Fund transfer to Debt Service

              Moves some expenditures out of the General Fund into special funds when they
               fit with the purpose of the fund, including debt payment for Pioneer Crossing;
               street sweeper purchase, pool repairs, Shawnee Town Strategic Plan design

              Continues 9 vacant positions through 2008

                  o   3 Firefighters
                  o   Police Officer
                  o   Police Mechanic
                  o   Public Works Maintenance Worker
                  o   Assistant to the City Manager
                  o   Traffic Sign Technician
                  o   Public Works Technician II

           City Manager Gonzales stated these positions are budgeted in 2009 and the staff will
           be watching things very closely. Depending on how things look, they will determine
           if they will fill these positions or not in 2009. The staff will work in the meantime to
           figure out who can make up the work for these positions.

              Eliminates 1 Building Inspector position

               City Manager Gonzales stated they all know permits are down and have
               reallocated that position into a Public Works Department vacant engineering
               position and has worked out very well.

              Incorporate enforcement of stormwater management requirements into remaining
               Building Inspectors‟ workload to help mitigate having to hire additional staff for
               that purpose.

               City Manager Gonzales stated they talked about this, this past spring that require
               quite a bit of additional enforcement and will do some training with the current
               building inspectors and have them do that so they do not have to hire any
               additional staff to take on that responsibility.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 56

              Reduces the City‟s budgeted increase for employee compensation from 3.9% to

              Includes no market increases in the 2008 or 2009 budget for employees

              Significantly defers IT replacements

                  o Significantly reduced remaining 2008 Equipment Replacement Program
                  o Eliminated 2009 Equipment Replacement Program
                  o Significantly reduced 2009 Technical Training Program for all
                  o Cancelled some and reduced other software/development support
                    programs – approximately 20%
                  o Reduced Police Digital Video System Development support
                  o Changed effective date to 2009 for City Hall and Public Works Phone
                    System for conversion to Everest

              Reduces services provided through contractual and commodity line items in
               General Fund.

                  o   No new holiday decorations/banners
                  o   Cut Bridge Repair Program in half
                  o   Reduced travel budgets by 5%
                  o   Eliminated holiday party

               City Manager Gonzales stated the staff went through the line items, what she calls
               the 2,000‟s and 3,000‟s – the stuff they can track for and buy. She stated the staff
               reduced those things significantly and the above four bullets are just some
               examples of things that have been reduced. She stated these things impact service
               and impact what the City is providing. She stated all that was done with an
               increase in fuel cost, which was substantial as they have talked about in the past.

              Eliminates the 2008 Mill and Overlay transfer from the General Fund; thus
               eliminating 1/3rd of the program in 2008.

              Provides for no Mill and Overlay/Curb and Sidewalk Program in 2009 or 2010.

               City Manager Gonzales stated she hopes to have some sort of plan by 2010 that
               will provide some relief to that program.

              Transfers revenue from Gas Tax ($1,748,500) to the Debt Service Fund (to make
               up for lost GF transfer; and to allow 1.4 mills to be moved to the General Fund).
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 57

              Places the entire projected revenue from the proposed County-wide Sales Tax in
               the General Fund (if it doesn’t pass, we will have to make significant cuts before
               the end of the year).

           City Manager Gonzales presented the General Fund Forecast, which includes the
           sales tax going forward and the graph shows that helps and is actually nice to see the
           revenue help the fund balance stay closer to where they would like. She cautioned
           the Council that the expenditures do not include any new staff and only include a
           basic growth factor.

           City Manager Gonzales stated in order to make any significant impact in the future,
           assuming understand and agree with how they go to where they are today, they have
           to either decrease service levels, cut real programs, cancel some project, or increase
           revenues – any or all parts of any of those things.

           City Manager Gonzales offered some examples of things the staff has discussed and
           stressed these are just examples. She stated she does not the headlines in the
           newspaper to read that she recommends getting rid of the City‟s crossing guard
           program, because that is not what she is doing, but is merely presenting examples of
           thing that as they look at what is left in the General Fund what they could really quit
           doing. She stated as was talked about earlier this evening, none of them want to quit
           doing anything as they take great pride in what they do and knows the community
           appreciates the service level provided by the City and does not want to see decreases.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the staff talked about a different way to do the
           CityLine and have actually done more work on that and thinks they could partner
           with the Shawnee Dispatch to do a CityLine product that would come out with the
           newspaper. That would save postage and if they did that avenue, they would have to
           do some advertising along with it, but that is a philosophical thing. She stated these
           are not cuts that are currently in the budget, but are for future contemplation.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the City has a wonderful snow removal program, but
           the staff talked about reducing the level of service they provide. She stated the
           $140,000 is a hard number to get a hold of, but is just if they quit doing residential
           and can not imagine them going that far, but to give the Council a concept of what
           they could save if they did less.

           Chairperson Pflumm asked if that number is per removal.

           City Manager Gonzales replied that is an annual number – ballpark.

           Chairperson Pflumm asked if it pretty much overtime.

           City Manager Gonzales stated it consists of overtime, gas, and salt.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 58

           Chairperson Pflumm asked about the gasoline as he has not seen the numbers. He
           asked City Manager Gonzales to tabulate what the City spent on gas in 2006, 2007,
           and 2008.

           City Manager Gonzales stated she can get those numbers to Chairperson Pflumm.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he asked the question at the last meeting, as the City
           had 18 snows last winter and wonders what it cost the City – not to the dollar, but
           when someone says the crews have to go out and push snow, what is the City
           spending that night – roughly.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth replied the only numbers he has to work with are
           from 2007. He stated in 2007 there was about 12 storms at an average cost of around
           $50,000 per storm and came to around $600,000 for the budget year.

           Councilmember Sawyer asked when Public Works Director Freyermuth, or whoever,
           decides to pull the switch they are popping the City for $50,000.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes, on each major event and is an
           average. He stated there is roughly a 35-hour period from the start of a storm to
           finish cleaning up everything.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he actually thought it would cost more.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth stated some of it is for overtime, but that is all the
           cost and some of that figure is regular time.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he was merely asking for the number of dollars spent
           per storm.

           Councilmember Straub stated he is curious as to what the $140,000 does, but
           unfortunately the weather people are not very good because they forecast a 12 inch
           snow and the City goes out and starts pouring salt and then the City ends up not
           getting anything or very little. He stated the City has to be prepared though and he
           sees a lot of the trucks going out before the snow even starts.

           City Manager Gonzales stated it would be great to have a sure weather predictor.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the staff uses the weather forecast to at least
           gear up and have employees available, since the City is not a 24 hour operation. He
           stated it adjusts people to be ready when the snow hits and they can not tell exactly
           when it does. He stated the City has not done a lot of anti-icings which is what they
           refer to when they put material down before anything even starts. He stated he knows
           a lot of highway departments around Missouri and Kansas do, but Shawnee has not
           gone to that over the years. He stated they have had a program from 25 years ago that
           reacts to when it gets slick.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 59

           Public Works Director Freyermuth stated during regular daytime hours, the
           employees are already here from 7:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. which is the normal shift. He
           stated if the storm starts during that time, the crews are usually out pretty close to the
           time the snow starts hitting the ground and freezing. He stated if it is a call-in, they
           are 30 to 40 minutes after it starts building up on the roads, because the City waits
           until it actually gets slick to call in the guys and start the operation. He stated it
           varies from time to time, but there is one anti-icing vehicle.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the City bought an anti-icing vehicle about
           two years ago to do what is referred to as anti-icing where they would actually go out
           three or four hours, based on the forecast and it could be six hours or 30 minutes
           ahead of the snow starting and put down a brine solution on some roads. He stated it
           is a very limited amount, but the City does have one vehicle and use it on Shawnee
           Mission Parkway, bridges, and the areas that freeze first.

           Councilmember Straub asked Public Works Director Freyermuth if they are basically
           dropping the program cost 20% or close to, reducing $140,000 from the $600,000.
           He asked what that entails; does the City then not go out on all snows.

           City Manager Gonzales stated she would clarify that this list is not things she
           recommends at this time, but things, at the direction of the Council if there are any
           they are particularly interested in that the City could live with and if the Council
           would like for staff to bring them back more information, that they would bring to
           committee meetings over the next few months to look at further.

           Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that $140,000 number represents stopping
           the efforts when they finished primary streets that they work on through the storm.
           He stated instead of the remainder, about an average 12 hours it take to go through all
           the residents which they do second, after the storm stops and the snow or ice stops
           building up on the pavement, that is when they finish up their primary routes and
           move into residential sections and that would mean not doing that last phase. He
           stated it is the equivalent of about $150,000.

           Councilmember Kuhn asked, just as a policy question for the staffing, that Public
           Works Director Freyermuth just said that generally the employees are scheduled from
           7:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., which is an 8 ½ hour shift with a half hour for lunch. She
           stated one of the things that was an industry discussion as far as cost cutting,
           obviously all industries are right now, is looking at the overtime that is caused in
           those small incremental portions that really add up. She stated the City has a larger
           number of employees that are hourly and it becomes a bigger deal.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated one of the suggestions had been not scheduling people
           for a full 8 hour shift in areas where there tends to be high overtime, not referring to
           snow removal or officers because she thinks those are a little different needs based
           overtime, but for example at her bank they had great success scheduling instead of a
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 60

           40 hour week, a 39 hour week knowing that the average employee was actually
           ending up with about 37 minutes of overtime each week, so by just adjusting their
           shift time by 15 minutes each day on either side, they were still able to achieve the
           coverage they needed to maintain service level, but actually able to decrease a pretty
           significant amount of cost just on that 37 minutes across the board going away and
           not being overtime. She stated the employees really did not see an impact to what
           their expected salary was at 40 hours.

           City Manager Gonzales stated she is sure there are things they could look at with the
           overtime. She stated they do try to do a lot of flex time and if they know someone is
           going to work on a weekend, they can then have Monday and Tuesday off, so they are
           just getting in their 40 hours later in the week. She stated they try to do a lot of that
           type of thing and knows the Police Department has probably done as much analysis
           as anyone and made some pretty significant cuts in their overtime budget for 2009,
           but is sure there are other things the staff could look at.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated it was just a small thing that her company did that ended
           up having a pretty decent impact. She stated she does not know how all the City
           departments are scheduled, nor would she in any way assume she is the person who
           should make those decisions, but it was just something they laughed at when it came
           out, but it has made thousands of dollars of an impact to her budget.

           City Manager Gonzales stated she is not going to go through all the examples one by
           one, but they are just things they have talked about at staff level and not things they
           have yet plugged into the budget, but things that in the future as they have to bring
           cuts forward to the Council, her one key point just at looking at these examples, it
           takes a lot of them to get to a million dollars.

           Councilmember Straub stated he brought up the travel budget in the past and asked if
           the staff looked at cutting travel across the board.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the staff did a 5% reduction in their training travel
           budget. She stated reducing the travel budget by 80%, it came to around $148,000.
           She stated that would be every department across the board. She stated they just did
           that again with a round number of a percent. She stated her theory in trying to come
           up with a quick number is that that 20% would be mandated as there is some training
           the City has to do by law with the Public Works Department employees.

           Councilmember Straub stated the City Council spends $40,000 to $45,000 per year,
           so City Manager Gonzales is saying they would cut that by 80% and if it is was
           $40,000, they would only be doing $16,000 in total travel. He stated the majority of
           travel is the City Council.

           City Manager Gonzales stated proportionately because the rest of the Council‟s
           budget is so small, that probably is one of the larger items in their budget. He stated
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 61

           because the Police Department‟s budget is much larger, proportionately it is much

           Councilmember Straub stated if the Council saved 25% of the $148,000 that is a big

           City Manager Gonzales responded it is certainly a portion.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the crossing guard contract number at $170,000 is
           actually the total amount for that program. She stated one of the things they have
           talked about doing is raising their threshold when they put a crossing guard on the
           corner. She stated the City has a policy on that, that the Council has looked at in the
           past and there are certain numbers of kids.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the second way of making significant impact which
           she has talked about again and again, but has not given the Council a lot of substance
           and where they start talking about people and employees. She stated they started
           looking at programs to cut and it is really where they really start impacting the public
           in terms of very direct services that have to go to make any kind of impact dollar-
           wise. She stated those are the programs that were shown at the beginning of tonight‟s
           presentation – the four slides of all the things the different departments do and is what
           the staff will begin to define and look at from a staff standpoint of what things they
           could live with, bringing forward to the Council as a possibility.

           City Manager Gonzales asked the Council to let the staff know if there is anything on
           that list that they would like to look at in the future.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated he has not seen anything on benefits, because they are
           talking about cutting people when they could probably do it by cutting benefits. He
           stated everyone has to give a little bit as opposed to someone just giving up their
           whole job. He stated they should look at everything and so far they have not seen
           anything on employee benefits which is probably one of the City‟s biggest

           City Manager Gonzales stated it is a large expenditure for the City and merging those
           two funds will help them look at that also and the staff has looked at some things in-
           house. She stated CAPERS and KP&F – the mandated percent went up and the City
           does not have control over that, but there are things within that fund that the City does
           have control over and will be things they continue to look at.

           City Manager Gonzales continued with projects. She stated this list of projects were
           on the previous list. She stated they have budget impact in the annual debt payment.
           She stated none of these are projects any of them would like to see go away, but as
           they work through the CIP they may have some recommendation for the Council.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                        PAGE 62

           Chairperson Pflumm asked if there are any parks that have any capital parks
           improvements that take money out of the General Fund or have debt service.

           City Manager Gonzales replied she believes they are still paying debt on the Soetaert
           Aquatic improvements and have about two more years on the Civic Centre.

           Chairperson Pflumm asked about bringing forward some of the parks they have now
           and reduce their debt service or postponing some of those.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated they can not use that money.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated it is for parks.

           City Manager Gonzales stated all the parks in the future are pay-as-you-go.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that, but the City is paying for parks that
           are probably 15 years old.

           City Manager Gonzales stated it is just those two areas – whenever they did the
           Soetaert improvements in 2002 and then the Civic Centre which was a 15 year bond,
           as well as Stump Park.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated he would like to investigate that further. He stated if they
           take dollars that the City brings in from Parks and Pipes, or whatever, instead of
           doing a project this year like the Water Tower Park that is $300,000 where they could
           reduce the debt service which will have an impact on the General Fund.

           City Manager Gonzales stated that is right.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated they did that with the Mill and Overlay Program, but did
           not do it with anything associated with parks.

           City Manager Gonzales stated they stretched out the park schedule to get the $97,000
           for the Pioneer Crossing debt payment, so that is a transfer from the Park Fund and
           not from the General Fund, because there is no General Fund money going toward
           capital projects. She stated they are using that special fund to make the debt payment
           for Pioneer Crossing. She stated it would be a similar thing and in order to do that at
           this point, the projects that have yet to be improved would be the Shawnee Town
           things for 2008/09 and if the Council did not want to do those projects and use that
           money for debt.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated even if projects have been approved, they can still go
           back if they have not yet gone out for contract.

           City Manager Gonzales stated they actually have gone out for contract, like on the
           Water Tower Park which were all approved several weeks ago. She stated the only
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 63

           things on the list that have yet to engage a contract would be the Shawnee Town

           Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks they should look at everything.

           City Manager Gonzales stated they did. She stated her recommendation was to use
           some of that to get the debt payment and use some of the rest of it to continue with
           the Shawnee Town strategic plan and to cash fund the east pool. She stated that is the
           big bulk of the Sales Tax money.

           City Manager Gonzales stated obviously the fourth option is to increase that capacity
           by increasing revenue. She stated they have different tools available to them –
           limited tools. She stated the Franchise Fee is one they have discussed at past
           meetings and one she plans on bringing back to the Council in a few months with a
           further more comprehensive analysis.

           City Manager Gonzales stated if they think about the fiscal capacity of every other
           city around Shawnee, they all include that Franchise Fee revenue. She stated
           Shawnee is trying to provide the same services without that source of revenue. She
           stated she believes it is something the Council needs to talk about.

           Councilmember Kuhn referred back to something Chairperson Pflumm just talked
           about and is not advocating and just asking if it works or not, but obviously one of the
           largest expenditures today which is coming out of the Park and Recreation Land Use
           budget, so she does not think there is another option to do anything else with it, but is
           the cash funding of the east aquatic center. She stated she knows it is only $1.9
           million and some change, but wondered if it is worth looking at saying they could
           structure that over five or seven years and have smaller debt payments on it and have
           additional funds that maybe the City can shift and find.

           Councilmember Goode stated he thought about that too.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows the Council had given directive for the last
           number of years and thinks it goes back to why, partially, they are in the position they
           are today. She stated it is like what they talked about with home builder‟s things, in
           that they can not just come in and not raise anything and not raise anything forever
           and then expect people to absorb a big increase. She stated they did not raise it and
           not only did they not raise it, they lowered it and no one every found another way to
           help increase the revenues they needed as costs just kept going up even to provide the
           same level of service. She stated now they are in a position to determine if they need
           to rethink some of it and people who are in 15 year mortgages are moving somewhat
           back to 30 years on some, just because sometimes people can‟t do it.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not know that is the right one because she
           knows that has a specific statute attached to what they could and could not use it for.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 64

           Finance Director Kidney stated to answer Councilmember Kuhn‟s question, that fund
           is a fund that has $100,000 on a good year right now. He stated that is based on
           building permits, so it probably would not be the revenue source they would want to
           use to debt fund $1.9 million.

           Finance Director Kidney stated the overall picture is that the debt payments for the
           City‟s park projects if they went back to the four projects, is around $700,000 a year.
           He stated there is a year or may be a two year, if they got rid of all the park projects,
           hit and miss. He stated it is $700,000 now, but would take a couple years to get back
           up to $700,000 and there really is not a lot of capacity on the special park funds. He
           stated the City has the Park and Pipes Fund expiring in 2015, so that is one they might
           be able to get one year‟s worth of payment out of that fund between now and 2015,
           given that they have already had expenses they have already incurred on others.

           Finance Director Kidney stated he thinks anything is a good idea to come back and
           take a look at all these, leveraging as much as possible. He stated originally he took
           the $700,000 annual payments and went into the special park funds and was eager to
           see how much he could get out of them, but quite honestly it did not take long to
           realize they could not do that for more than possibly a year and a half or two years at
           the full $700,000, so he backed off. He looked at what has the least amount of impact
           on projects that have already been started and it was that $100,000 portion of Pioneer

           Finance Director Kidney stated even the Civic Centre portion was around $26,000.
           He stated he really struggled with trying to get that in there, so ultimately he took
           those three years worth of payments out, but can always go back and look at them.
           He stated when it really comes down to things, there is a not a ton of capacity in these
           park funds. He thinks they are leveraging them very well in that they are not issuing
           debt in the future.

           Finance Director Kidney thinks with that $1.9 million, they could probably legally go
           back and even do more than that. He stated it was always planning to come out of a
           debt service fund where there is a property tax, but that is not really a good option for
           the City at this time. He stated these revenue fees, based on one-time building
           permits are where they have gotten into trouble in the past – using these types of one-
           time improvements for long term debt. He stated that is a lot of the reason why they
           are in the position they are today and the Excise Tax is a good example. He stated
           hopefully he answered Councilmember Kuhn‟s question, but at the same time he
           thinks it is good to go back and throw everything out there to look at what different
           types of restructuring they can do.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she would go back to Chairperson Pflumm‟s question
           and it sounded like there is a lot of parks stuff out there and what they can cut. She
           stated they have not gotten to any expenditure yet, so if they have not gotten there
           they could cut it out and move it somewhere else. She stated they have a 2008 budget
           under Parks and Pipes, but those are in 2008 and ones the City has already contracted,
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 65

           spent money, and had things done. She stated those are just bills they just know are
           coming, for example, Quivira Glenn at $250,000 and West Flanders at $206,000.

           Chairperson Pflumm asked if they have let every one of those projects to contractors

           Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied they start tomorrow.

           Chairperson Pflumm asked about every single project they have on the books for

           Councilmember Kuhn stated there are three; Quivira Glenn, Clear Creek Phase I, and
           West Flanders. She stated those are the three that were included in the parks and
           Pipes Fund budget. She stated Clear Creek comes with a grant, so if the City does not
           spend $200,000 they lose $800,000 so that obviously does not work. She stated they
           have already let Quivira Glenn, so they can‟t do anything with that one. She asked
           about West Flanders.

           Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated that project is already let.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated there is then no money in any of those three projects, so
           that defeats being able to shift that.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated they could have a change order.

           Councilmember Kuhn asked Chairperson Pflumm if they should just throw away
           what has already been spent on those three projects, because she knows they have
           already spent engineering money on at least two of them.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated that is never thrown away.

           Councilmember Sandifer stated it takes the Council to do something like that.

           Chairperson Pflumm thanked Councilmember Sandifer for reminding them and stated
           they are just bringing up things for the Council to consider.

           City Manager Gonzales stated they would have to cancel the contract and she is not
           sure about the provisions in those contracts – for Water Tower Park and Quivira

           Chairperson Pflumm stated it is a scope change. He stated if they started tomorrow,
           there could be a scope change and it is not a major impact on any loss.

           City Manager Gonzales stated she is not sure of the contract provisions and would
           have to look at those things to consider.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                         PAGE 66

           Chairperson Pflumm stated they need to investigate those things relatively quickly, if
           they have to look at what they have to cut.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not think it makes any sense whatsoever to
           consider Clear Creek Phase I, because of obviously the huge amounts involved with
           it. She stated they have already let Quivira Glenn and West Flanders. She asked if
           Quivira Glenn has been on the books for 15 years.

           Chairperson Pflumm answered yes.

           City Manager Gonzales stated Quivira Glenn has been on the books for a long time,
           along with Water Tower Park. She stated both of those languished a long time just
           because the City did not have the staff to get at them.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated Water Tower Park was not that long ago, because the
           water tower was just taken down. He stated he can understand Quivira Glenn,
           because it has been so long. He asked if Water Tower is around $300,000.

           City Manager Gonzales replied it is $308,000.

           Councilmember Straub asked if they have already been contracted.

           City Manager Gonzales stated Sarai has already been contracted for that project.

           Councilmember Straub asked about doing a scope change and just putting down sod
           and putting in a couple of trees and not all the bells and whistles that were originally
           planned for this park.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated maybe they do not have to do that one and should only do
           four. He stated they are not milling and overlaying streets.

           Councilmember Straub stated they are not hiring firemen or police officers –
           everything is on the table.

           City Manager Gonzales concurred.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated obviously is one of the largest advocates for Parks and
           Recreation, because she thinks that that probably way more than the Mill and
           Overlay, no offense to the Public Works Department, is seen every single day by their
           constituents and is appreciated and will be impacted incredibly if they decide to take
           it away. She stated her greater concern is not the budget they are presenting tonight
           and thinks where they are at with that, while it is in no way an appealing picture, is a
           picture that the staff has done the very best job of making use of their resources and
           making it work.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 67

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she is terrified that the County justice tax is not going to
           pass because when that happens, those programs they looked at go and there is
           nothing that they can not look at as far as trying to cut it. She stated she feels very
           justified sitting here being a person who says it, because she is a person who put her
           neck out on the line years ago and said the City can not afford what they are doing
           and said they had to reduce revenues at that tax base. She stated she thinks she is in a
           very reasonable position today to say, „look the City has cut, cut, cut and increased
           revenues to the best of their ability to make those decisions.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks everything is on the table and thinks it is an
           unfair thing having discussed it that they do not look at whether or not they have to
           make cuts that will hurt really badly, but the other side of things is that they need to
           look at whether or not they have to look at decisions that hurt really bad the other
           way. She stated Shawnee is the only city that does not have the Franchise Tax. She
           stated had they been aware enough in the past to make a decision of what the long
           term future of their city could be, they would have implemented it at a time when
           maybe their constituents would not be in such a financial crisis a they are today, so it
           would not be, as in an email sent to her, a question of do they not understand their
           budgetary needs and how increasing a franchise tax now is terrible for them.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated if the City had done this years ago when they had the
           opportunity, not only would they have a surplus of cash to accomplish these things,
           but their constituents would have been able to budget it for a time they were not in a

           Chairperson Pflumm stated if they get money, they spend it.

           Councilmember Goode asked about the other cities that get the Franchise Tax.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks all the cities are having economic issues right

           City Manager Gonzales stated there is always more service to provide and things are
           more expensive.

           Chairperson Pflumm concurred.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks when they look at all the other cities and
           everyone is having budget concerns, but they do not have the same trouble as

           Councilmember Goode stated not with the cities he has talked to, because if franchise
           was the savior of all things Shawnee would not be a bit better off than the other cities.

           Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks that is exactly it; Shawnee would not be a bit
           better off than the other cities, but would not be worse off which is what they are right
JULY 8, 2008                    FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 68

           now. She stated if they look at the other cities‟ proposed budgets that they all have
           been able to read and see, they will see that none of them are proposing taking an
           entire year off of their mill and overlay program. She stated the other cities are not
           losing three firemen that they have tried to get for staffing and will see that a number
           of the cities are actually increasing their budget significantly more than what they are
           and she is not advocating that is the right answer, simply saying there are no sacred

           Councilmember Kuhn stated the Council can not just assume that they can cut
           everything down and have to adjust both of them; both revenues and expenditures and
           she thinks some of them on the Council have been willing to try to do that and some
           of them have been unwilling to look at both sides of the coin and something which
           she thinks is unreasonable and incredibly unfair, and a very bad representation of
           what this city needs.

           Chairperson Pflumm stated they should have looked at not letting those contracts two
           weeks ago until they were done with tonight‟s meeting or the meeting two weeks
           from now.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated everyone is sitting around here scared to death that the
           tax is not going to pass on August 5th, but no one has a magic crystal ball as to
           whether or not it is going to pass. He stated it is not a tax that is going to increase
           anyone‟s load and they are paying it today. He stated if they decide to approve it,
           they approve it.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated the way he understands what City Manager Gonzales
           is presenting tonight, is things that the Council will have to look at if it does not pass.
           He stated if he sat here and just listened to this group here tonight, one might think
           they were going to be doom and gloom forever. He stated yes, it is going to be tight
           this year and tight next year.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated the statement was made earlier that no other city cut
           their mill and overlay program, but Overland Park does not do mill and overlay but
           every 27 years, so there are differences in what Shawnee and other cities do. He
           stated they may have to look at different things to do. He stated Shawnee is going to
           have to make some tough decisions, but he believes City Manager Gonzales is
           presenting things tonight that will probably have to happen if the tax does not pass in

           City Manager Gonzales stated the other huge thing hanging out there is a street
           maintenance program. She stated she hopes they do not have to continue putting that
           gas tax into the General Fund.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he is talking about the things City Manager Gonzales
           is laying out here tonight.
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                           PAGE 69

           City Manager Gonzales stated in order to find money to cut a million dollars and in
           the future to have a street maintenance program, those are the kinds of things they
           will need to look at further.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated they had to cut out the street maintenance program in
           2009, but there has been an issue with the street maintenance and can say mill and
           overlays are the only issue, but there are people in certain parts of this city who
           wonder about the curbs and gutters they do not have, so that is part of street
           maintenance as well.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he can sit there and say the City neglects that all the
           time and he does. He stated they have pulled off streets from the CIP that do not have
           curbs and gutters and have kids walking on the streets. He stated that is all, in his
           opinion, street maintenance and something that this Council is going to have to look
           at in the future. He stated the staff is going to have to look at maybe not doing it every
           11 or even every 15 years, but it is certainly something they have to look at.

           Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not prepared to sit here tonight and listen about it
           being doom and gloom here out and forever. He stated it will turn around. He stated
           maybe not as fast as they would all like, but the news media keeps telling everyone
           that everything is bad. He stated things will become bad if they listen to that long
           enough. He stated that yes things are tight and he is in agreement with that fact, but
           the Council and staff have to do the smart things to get through the low side, but
           things will turn around and everyone heard it here first.

           Councilmember Goode stated he has been preaching that for 25 years. He stated he
           has been through these things before and the City came out of them a lot faster than a
           lot of times he thought it would take. He stated he is less enthusiastic about coming
           out this one than he has with any of them and has been through a lot of them sitting
           right here.

           City Manager Gonzales stated there are other fees and revenues on this list that the
           staff will be looking at and bringing before the Council as they get them analyzed and
           studied. She stated that ties into her future presentation.

           City Manager Gonzales stated the CIP is scheduled for September and the staff will
           be doing analyses on service levels, programs, and revenues in the next weeks and
           months. She stated they need to come up with a plan to get the City back to 35% and
           need to come up with a plan for street, curb, and sidewalk maintenance in the future.

           City Manager Gonzales presented the budget that was presented this evening with all
           the components that were discussed. She stated if there are things that the Council
           wants the staff to bring forward on July 14, 2008 related to parks the staff can look at
           those dollars and put them in the packet memo. She stated if there are other
           suggestions or things the Council wants the staff to look at, remembering that the
           notice they publish is the maximum tax levy. She stated they will not be acting on it
JULY 8, 2008                   FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES                          PAGE 70

           on Monday, July 14, 2008, publish the Notice of Public Hearing, and then on July 28,
           2008 is the actual public hearing and adoption of the 2008R and 2009 budget.

           Councilmember Goode stated in his past experiences over times like these over the
           period of time he has served this City, he has thought things would get better and he
           has been more right than wrong about things getting better. He stated he has been
           very surprised in all these similar instances they are experiencing here tonight, that
           the City came out of these things a lot faster than expected. He stated with this
           situation that is presented tonight, it is not something he has been able to predict as
           well as he has in the past, but still thinks that it is going to get better, but does not
           look for things to get better until probably some time the middle of next year.

           Councilmember Goode stated what the economy today is lacking, is confidence in
           people; people who can not go out and pay $4.00+ for gas. He stated they do not
           have the money to do it. He stated like Councilmember Kuhn said a while ago,
           people are refinancing and changing from 15 to 30 year loans. He stated they have to
           straighten all that up and the confidence to go out and buy products, as far as people
           are concerned takes place, then they will come out of this thing. He thinks they are
           going to come out of it a little faster than he is anticipating right now and hopes it is
           going to be that way.


Councilmember Straub, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 4-0, and the meeting adjourned at 11:00 p.m.

Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary


Vicki Charlesworth, City Clerk

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