CITY OF SHAWNEE
FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION COMMITTEE MEETING
SPECIAL BUDGET MEETING
JULY 8, 2008
Chairperson Pflumm called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m.
Committee Members Present Staff Present
Councilmember Pflumm City Manager Gonzales
Councilmember Sawyer Assistant City Manager Charlesworth
Councilmember Straub Deputy City Clerk Powell
Councilmember Sandifer Assistant City Attorney Rainey
Public Works Director Freyermuth
Other Councilmembers Present City Engineer Wesselschmidt
Councilmember Goode Police Chief Morgan
Councilmember Kuhn Fire Chief Hudson
Councilmember Distler Fire Marshal Mattox
Parks and Recreation Director Holman
Deputy Parks and Recreation Director Lecuru
Finance Director Kidney
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson
Information Technologies Director Doherty
Accounting Manager Kelly
Senior Accountant Oldham
Deputy Police Chief Larimore
Parks Superintendent Hellwig
Members of the public who spoke: (Item 1) ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace;
(Item 2) ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, DAVE HOLTWICK, 14119 W. 48th
1. PARK RECYCLING PROGRAM UPDATE.
Chairperson Pflumm stated that on February 11, 2008, the City Council approved using
Stump Park and Swarner Park for the pilot Parks Recycling Program.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated essentially tonight‟s report is for informational
purposes only to give the Council an update on how the recycling program is going in
Stump Park and Swarner Park.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they included in the packet, some average trash
collection and recycling collection numbers. He stated the recycling numbers have been
lackluster and they are still chalking it up largely to the educational component. He
stated they hope to enhance that element and get some buy-in. He stated the staff has
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 2
found there is not a large cost associated with the program at this point for probably a
couple of reason. The crews really are not dealing with a large volume of trash and
recyclable material, so it has not been a big hindrance to pick it up and get it out to the
Parks Superintendent Hellwig presented a slide showing an example of the retrofitted
cans. He stated these particular cans already existed at the sites and decals were simply
added to indicate which can was for recycling. He reported they are getting about six
times as much trash and recyclable material. On a 16 week period, they are averaging
about 2.5 bags of recyclables combined between the two sites. He stated these are less
than stellar numbers, but nevertheless a step in the right direction.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated the staff recommends continuing with the pilot
program and investigate implementing more educational opportunities to add some
signage potentially at those parks talking about the benefits of recycling and which
materials they would like to receive. The staff recommends continuing with the Soccer
Club and getting information out in email verse to coaches, players, and participants of
the soccer programs hoping to encourage participation in this program.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they could also find some volunteers to actually man
some of the cans and invite people to use them. He stated 19 receptacles were placed in
the parks and each of the recycling receptacles are placed next to a trash can. Both cans
are clearly marked which is for what material. He stated they have had a lot of trash in
the recycling containers and a lot of recyclables in the trash cans.
Chairperson Pflumm stated there have been a lot of good comments about the Recycling
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he thinks it is great PR for the City. He stated it is a
step in the right direction and has not been a hardship to implement this pilot program.
He stated he thinks if they continue with the pilot program and watch how it grows and
how they can get people used to it; potentially they could expand it from there.
Councilmember Straub asked, since there is very little hardship and very little cost, as
stated earlier by Parks Superintendent Hellwig, then why not go ahead and expand the
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied he is afraid if they did that, adding a can to each
park is still something else they would have to dump. He stated two park sites has not
been a huge undertaking, but if they starting talking about 25 to 30 sites it could become
quite a lot of work.
Councilmember Straub asked how many parks are in the City.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied the City has around 33 locations with trash cans.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 3
Councilmember Straub asked about more than just the two and every little bit the City
does, the more people will see them and the more education they will get. He stated
eventually the people will catch on. He stated maybe they could do three or five of the
busiest parks. He stated they know the cost is not great and the hardship is not great on
two parks, so maybe they could look at doing it in more parks. He stated it is just like
curbside recycling and when one neighbor starts talking to another neighbor each tries a
Councilmember Straub stated he does not think the program will ever be perfect, as they
will always have trash in recycling bins and recycling material in trash bins forever, but
every little bit helps. He stated as Parks Superintendent Hellwig just said, it is great PR
and if Shawnee is the City in Johnson County doing recycling they will just get more PR.
He stated if they are looking for a branding and what Shawnee is all about, that is a
simple inexpensive thing to do. He stated doing it in three or four more parks is really up
to the Parks Department, but eventually he would like to do it in all the parks throughout
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they could certainly expand the program and would
look to the Council for direction.
Councilmember Straub asked Parks Superintendent Hellwig if there are five parks in the
City that are busier than the others, or are they all about the same.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied the City definitely has parks busier than others. He
stated Stump Park and Swarner Park are probably the two highest volume parks, which is
why they were picked for the pilot program.
Councilmember Straub stated expanding the program a little more would probably not
hurt anything and would give the City more PR. He stated they could say it probably has
not been as successful as they want it to be, but they want to make it a little more and are
adding two or four more parks – whatever to that effect. He stated if the crew is going to
pick up trash in one can, it will not take them a lot more time to pick up two cans. He
stated he is not sure if they are using different colored trash bags, but would recommend
they use clear bags in the recycling cans so they can actually see what is in there.
City Manager Gonzales stated they can see down in to the cans when they lift the lid.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated so far the volume has been really low and really they
are talking about a bag and a half per park per week. He stated they have nine cans at
Swarner and 10 can at Stump. He stated out of all 10 cans at Stump, they are getting a
bag and a half of recyclables so the quantity has been low.
Councilmember Straub stated he was on the County trail system and they did not have
recycling, but he would say that more than three-quarters of their trash was plastic
bottles. He stated people are walking out there carrying the water bottles.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 4
City Manager Gonzales stated at this point, the staff would really like to carry the
program through fall at these two parks. She stated they are incorporating recycling bins
at all the City‟s special events and at summer concerts which is good education. She
stated they need to figure out what it is going to take, i.e. do they need different signs on
the bins, signs around the bins, or volunteers. She stated they need to figure out what will
increase it and feel they would feel better about the program if they could take one more
season to do it and look to next spring to expand it out.
City Manager Gonzales stated if the response would have been overwhelming, then yes,
they could have gone for it, but they have yet to really figure it all out and just need a
little more time.
Councilmember Goode stated they could put up a sign reading “Deposit your Recyclables
City Manager Gonzales stated one would think it would be clear, but it is a change for
people and habits take time to change.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if the recycle decal is on just one side of the cans.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied it is on just one side. He stated it is strategically
turned toward the trail side or hopefully the traffic side of the cans, but that is not an
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would have to agree with City Manager Gonzales and is
not sure she would want to expand everywhere if they have not figured out what works
yet. She stated what might be a benefit to look at doing in the spring, would be to try
different types of cans with different types of signage either at different locations within
the same park. She stated if they have three different signage versions at three different
places in each of the three parks they try, maybe seeing if one versus the other grabs their
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would have to think if she was cutting across to throw
away something, she might not see the recycle label, assume it is a trash can, and now she
has ruined an entire bag of recycling not intentionally, but merely not realizing.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if there are semi-circle recycling decals that could be placed
on the top of the lids where the holes are located, because people might not miss that.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would imagine there are decals of that sort out
Chairperson Pflumm asked if the decals are just stickers anyway.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig answered yes. He stated they could certainly add more
decals. He stated the staff is going to look at the cost of having some signs made that
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 5
actually tell which type of materials they are after. He stated that is probably another
place where they have been a little unclear, save for the email bursts that have gone out
and those types of things. He stated plastic and aluminum are the target recyclables and
they really need to get the word out there so people know what they should be putting in
Councilmember Goode stated after such a lousy spring and people out there trying to
picnic, party, and get rained out in the morning and afternoon, they really have not given
this program a good try. He stated if they get a nice, hot summer and people are visiting
these parks, they might see a terrific increase in recycling, but he is not sure that will
happen and thinks they need to watch it close. He does believe it will step up this
summer a lot from spring, because of the weather they experienced.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they are out of soccer season and at Swarner Park
they have each of these types of cans at the shelter houses, which are reserved for picnics.
He stated it will be a nice test to see how much they get outside of soccer season from the
picnic folks to see how much they are generating versus the soccer crowds. He stated
soccer starts back up in the middle of August and will run through November.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would think by the beginning to mid-November
date, they will have a pretty good idea of how it is going and with a few tweaks, they will
have a better big picture of how things are going.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they have received some good compliments. He asked about
Herman Laird Park and over by Shawnee Town.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied he would think as they expand the program, those
two areas would be good places, as well as West Flanders with the walking trail and is
heavily visited on certain days.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if there is another area in the City that is more soccer and
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated Gum Springs might be another good location, as
there is a fair amount of baseball and soccer at that park. He stated Garrett Park is
another multi-use park to think about.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he thinks this has been a good test thus far, but thinks the
issue is bigger than just getting recycling to work in the parks. He stated if they all
remember, curbside recycling has gone down in this city, so it is going to be a bigger
issue than just sticking recycling bins in the parks, as they have to educate the whole city
to recycle. He stated he hears from seniors that they do not have to recycle, because they
are seniors and that is great because it means they do not have to pay the bill, but until
they change the attitude of the public entirely that recycling is good for everyone
everywhere, he can not see expanding it until they can see if they can make it work at
these two parks.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 6
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they are getting a bag and a half out of each park of
recycling, then how many bags of trash are they getting.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig replied they are getting 15 bags of trash; 10 at Stump and 5
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is not a stellar output in his opinion and they still have
a lot of work to do before they start jumping around saying they have done a wonderful
thing here; yes, the few people who use the bins think it is great, but the public has not
been educated that this is something they all need to start doing. He stated he knows in
his neighborhood there are very few people who put out curbside recycling – very few.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he knows all the people in his neighborhood have to pay
and he does not understand why they are not doing it if they are paying for it. He stated
people put out eight to 10 bags of trash. He thinks the education portion, which the City
does not seem to have a lot of money to do at this time, has to come and cover not only
they recycle in parks, which he thinks is a great idea, if they can make it work. He stated
they need to make it work at these two parks and then think about expanding it, at least in
Councilmember Straub stated it sounds to him like the program is work, but may not be
working to the extent everyone would like. He stated they got 15 bags of recyclables
over three months. He stated that is five bags of recycling that is not going into the dump
and that is a positive step. He stated it may take a while and Councilmember Kuhn is
correct, in that it may not be the signage and if they put the stickers all the way around;
people may not know. He stated it is going to be a learning curve and education just by
the seeing the sign is education; seeing the cans and the symbols. He stated that is a no-
Councilmember Straub stated if the school districts catch on and start pushing recycling,
it will happen. He stated it is kind of like the non-smoking sections in restaurants. He
stated at one point there was no such thing as a non-smoking section in a restaurant. He
stated they said there was no way non-smoking sections would make it because people
would not come to the restaurant, but over the years it has gone the opposite way and
now there are hardly any smoking sections in restaurants.
Councilmember Straub stated this will take time. He stated if there is very little cost and
very little hardship, as Parks Superintendent Hellwig said, what will it hurt to do two or
four more of the City‟s busiest parks and that will educate the people the more they see it.
Councilmember Straub stated he is not trying to say it is wrong and let‟s not do it, but if it
costs very little and is a good thing for the environment, then what if out of the two more
parks they get another 15 bags or get five bags; that is five less bags of trash that is in the
Deffenbaugh dump and that is over a three month period. He stated if it is 15 bags for
three months, they are looking at 60 bags each year.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 7
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated it actually turned out being 40 bags for a 16-week
Councilmember Straub stated whatever it is, whether it is 1 or 50, it is something. He
stated if it has very little cost or very little hardship, expanding it a little bit is not going to
hurt anything. He stated they are at least getting something recycled. He stated he does
not recycle everything like his neighbor. He stated his neighbor‟s recycling bin is twice
as big as her trash and his is not quite that much, but he is doing some recycling. He
stated he recycles the plastic and aluminum.
Councilmember Straub stated someone told him the reason recycling went down a couple
years ago is because they stopped taking glass. He stated whether that is true or not he
does not know, because he did not research it. He stated that information came from a
Councilmember Sawyer stated he gave the Council all the numbers months ago and they
did not include glass.
Councilmember Straub stated this person was speaking from a recycling point of view,
which is great and thinks more people should be that way. He stated he is merely
suggesting they look at doing four more parks within the next 60 days. He stated if they
have already done this for 16 weeks at very little cost or hardship and these two parks are
the City‟s busiest, then why not pick four more parks that are not quite as busy. He stated
the education is just seeing it in front of people; the education of seeing a billboard is that
is where it is advertising.
Councilmember Straub stated the City needs to advertise and he agrees if the stickers cost
very little, then put them all the way around the receptacles.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff can look into doing that, but with the budget she
is presenting this evening she is a little sensitive to adding anything at all. She stated she
understands this is minimal, but right now the City is short six positions in the Public
Works Department and it is very likely that Parks Superintendent Hellwig‟s staff is going
to have to step up and step over and help out in that area.
City Manager Gonzales stated this is how the workload grows. She stated everyone
thinks recycling is a great idea.
Councilmember Straub asked if they could look at doing some corporate sponsors to see
if they could buy a trash can.
City Manager Gonzales stated then it is the time involved in doing that work. She stated
it is just more work for the staff. She stated she is all for doing it, but would like to
perfect the program more before they expand it.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 8
Councilmember Straub stated he has people bugging him about this program. He asked
if more people got involved and organized this effort, would City Manager Gonzales be
open to listening to what they had to do.
City Manager Gonzales replied she and the staff would certainly be open to listening to
them, but then again someone has to listen to them, someone has to paint the trash cans,
someone has to take the trash cans out to the locations; it is not a big deal, but that is now
the City has gotten to where they are today in that they just keep saying yes to things and
they do not have enough people to do the work that needs to be done. She stated she
would prefer waiting, but if the majority of the Council wants the staff to put energy into
that effort, then some other things will have to be placed on the back burner. She stated
maybe some right-of-way will not get mowed for a few days – there are trade-offs.
Councilmember Straub stated from what he understands it is very little cost.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated it is a little over $850.00 for the two parks.
City Manager Gonzales stated that does not include the staff time of painting the trash
cans, the ordering time, etcetera. She stated she would like to give this program one
more season to get it right, so they do not do it halfway in a bunch of parks and would
rather do it right in a couple parks and expand it out.
Councilmember Sandifer stated agrees 100% with City Manager Gonzales. He stated the
City is in a tight budget right now and he thinks the staff is doing a great job. He stated
with the volume of recycling they are getting today, he thinks they need to go further in
their experimentation to find out where they are at. He stated this is not a decision that
just one councilmember can make and it needs to come in front of the entire Council.
City Manager Gonzales stated the Committee can make a motion and this can be taken to
a Council meeting.
Councilmember Kuhn stated on that same note she really is not sure she would look to
expand out of the parks right now, but would not want the City to not experiment on
some of this. She thinks Councilmember Sawyer‟s comment on education and in the
packet Parks Superintendent Hellwig talked about possibly using the CityLine to get
information out to people. She stated she really would love if they do decide to do it, and
knows there are costs associated with not adding one more thing, but with the City
looking at possibly some of the signage, rather then maybe making the step that at both
parks every trash can gets the same signage, even at that cost, maybe they could look at
picking some things.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks it is a bad idea to take a program that with every
great intention is a good thing, but is not having great results and expand it everywhere.
She thinks it is a better thing to take a program that has great intensions and could have
great results and fine tune it before they roll it out in a mass area. She does not want the
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 9
Council to suddenly say they are going to put up signage and if that does not work, she
would like to see them try more than one thing at a time if possible.
Councilmember Goode thinks they should give it a trial this summer. He stated if the
quantities increase beyond the expectations presented this evening, then they could try it
at other locations. He does not know if they will ever get into a better position financially
with this kind of an economic set-up out there, but as far as he is concerned they can give
it a try and increase it if it works out that way.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he would be happy to come back before the Council
in November and give them an update following the fall soccer season. He stated they
can look at how things have gone trying a couple different things at these two sites and
maybe find the right formula and what people respond to.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks this is a good program. He thinks if they look to
expand it in the future, they want to look at where most the teams are playing.
ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated people are naturally lazy. He
stated there is a large hole on the left receptacle and a little hole in the right one. He
stated recycling is hard. He stated he has green buckets at home and it is a lot of work to
take the stuff out there. He stated he drives by these receptacles and does not know if
there is a way to make it easier to throw recyclables away other than some sort of
disincentive and that is kind of what it is. He stated people stand there with a handful of
[different types of materials and just throw it all in one container].
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he does not know that putting it a step further behind, or
putting a lid on top that make the people have to work is the answer, but he is certainly a
green bucket filler himself in his neighborhood. He stated he has a feeling that one day
based on the things that Deffenbaugh is telling them, there is a reduction in glass. He
stated Max Clegett is the Deffenbaugh engineer and it is the result of the glass being
broken in handling at their facility which is why they stopped picking it up. He stated
since people can not recycle glass they just throw it all in the trash and that is why the
numbers have gone down.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated one day Deffenbaugh will charge per pound for the bag on
the left and they will not charge for the bag on the right (recyclables). He stated ignoring
that, or trying to give the opportunity to keep the bags on the right from not growing as
fast as they can, will save them all money.
ROBERT ROWLAND asked Parks Superintendent Hellwig if they have ever asked
anyone who has thrown stuff away, why.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated he has not seen them do it. He stated his crews may
have seen the people do it, but that is another thing to monitor. He stated they could keep
a clipboard with them and interview some of the people who are using the receptacles
and not using them.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 10
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated to give a little background on the lids of the cans
they found the recyclers are the doers and the people who care. He stated if one person is
going to take that extra step, it is going to be the recyclers versus the trash throwers. He
stated if they keep both cans wide open, the trash throwers have the best of both worlds.
He stated hopefully the doers, the recyclers, will still pick the right option.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated they need to make it difficult for people to use the trash can
and put it further back; maybe not allow them to throw away trash. He stated he was a
Boy Scout, if they hauled it in, they took it home.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not have the figures with him this evening, but his
point on curbside recycling in Shawnee was the figures he acquired from Mr. Clegett the
first part of the year and the recycling products that go to the recycler are less than what
they were and have been dropping every year. He stated glass was pulled out of all of
them, so glass was not an issue as far as tonnage was concerned. He stated it surprised
him greatly that the numbers were going down instead of up, because since 1992 he got
signatures to bring before the Shawnee City Council to get curbside recycling in
Shawnee. He stated it was disappointing to him that the numbers are going the other
Councilmember Sawyer stated he runs some convenience stores and they tried and finally
gave up in putting recycling cans and trash cans out. He stated if they are both made the
same size, people throw trash in both cans. He stated if they are sitting side by side, as
much as he hates to say it, there are lazy people out there. He stated he is lucky if the
people even pick up their trash and put it in the cans, because most of the time they throw
it in the parking lot. He stated that amazes him inasmuch education as everyone has put
out in the last few years not to trash their neighborhoods, but people being people – there
are a vast majority that do not care.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he can not see it any other way – the people just do not
care. He stated he would love to see this program work. He stated he believes they have
to take baby steps and if they have to do more signage or if someone has a new idea, he
thinks they should explore it, but before they expand to more parks they should wait to
see what they can do this year. He stated he knows it does not sound like a great deal of
money, but in this particular budget it is a lot of money – big money.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is in favor of running the program to the end of the
soccer season. He stated that does not mean they have to sit there until the end of the
soccer season and do nothing, as he would rather see the program work than fail. He
stated he sure does not want to expand the program at this time, based on the information
they have at this time.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they do not need a motion at this time. He stated they will
just continue on with the same program.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 11
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff will continue to explore ways to make the
program better before the fall season. She stated they will try some different techniques.
Parks Superintendent Hellwig stated they will take a percentage of the lids off and see if
they can find that right culmination.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he actually spoke with Deffenbaugh about two weeks ago
on Monday or Wednesday as his trash collection changed. He stated the PR fellow, last
name Kauffman, he started the conversation off with if they would charge his
neighborhood more for people who do not recycle. He stated he is tired of paying for the
people who throw away bags of trash and he throws away one bag in one green bucket.
He stated this fellow told him he had been waiting for years for someone to say that. He
stated his family actually recycles well.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he does not know if Deffenbaugh is going to come bring
large yellow buckets where people can have a plethora of recycling opportunities; glass,
plastic, paper, magazines, cardboard, etcetera, but they might be willing to do something
as it is in their best interest to reduce the flow of stuff that is a waste stream versus a
recyclable. He stated Deffenbaugh takes glass and loses money on it, because it keeps it
out of their trash as well. He stated he thinks Deffenbaugh might be a partner interested
in keeping their business open longer and if by doing this, it gets some family, maybe
10% of the people to do so in Shawnee, according to the Johnson County Waste meeting
held many months ago that might pump them up from 26% to 30% recycling which is a
2. REVIEW OF NEW EDITIONS OF THE BUILDING CODES.
Chairperson Pflumm stated that the City currently enforces the 2003 International
Construction Codes. The codes are updated every three years and many area
municipalities have adopted newer versions.
Chairperson Pflumm asked Chief Codes Administrator Thompson if these have been sent
out to the Home Builders Association and the Top 10 builders in Shawnee to get some
feedback before they made this recommendation.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson answered yes. He stated staff has sent out over
600 email newsletters twice and posted information on the Internet. He stated people
were invited to attend the meeting this evening and invited to attend an information
exchange meeting held on June 16, 2008. He stated they sent out hard copies in the mail
to over 150 different people on the City‟s mailing list twice as well.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated in addition, staff has received training on
the new codes being proposed to the Council for adoption. He stated the staff has
attended multiple meetings on this topic. He stated they have reviewed local
amendments from other municipalities. He stated they held that information exchange
meeting and as a result they are offering for the Council‟s consideration adoption of the
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 12
energy conservation code, which is something they had not previously adopted. He
stated it deals with energy conservation and new commercial buildings.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated they received some good feedback from
people at the information exchange meeting. He stated they also advised them they were
reviewing their permit fee structure and it is based on project value. He stated the staff
feels like they have undervaluing new single family homes between $10-20 a square foot
and are proposing that the Council allow staff to administratively adjust the value of new
construction based on their research.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he thinks there are construction community
members present this evening to discuss this issue and they may have some additional
input. He stated he would be happy to provide as much insight and go into as much
depth as the Committee would like, or just try to answer any questions at this time.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if Chief Codes Administrator Thompson is talking about per
square foot evaluations when someone comes in to do a building permit.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied that is correct. He stated what happens is
the permit fees are based on project value. He stated by law, the codes administrator is
the person that assigns the value of construction. He stated for a house the information
he has from the U.S. Census Bureau indicates that in 2007 for the Midwest region the
average price per square foot at $88.00 is exclusive to any improvements to the lot or the
lot itself. He stated the staff feels like that value should be in the $80 range and currently
Shawnee is putting it in the $60 range.
Councilmember Goode asked how Shawnee stands with the competitors.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied a comparison on permit fees from other
local jurisdictions looking at a typical single family dwelling, shows Shawnee‟s current
fee at $683. He presented comparisons with other local municipalities. He noted down
below looking at the value currently being used at $60.00 per square foot and $10.00 for
unfinished basement, garage, and decks. He stated the staff feels it reasonable to value
that construction going from $683 to $883 per permit fee, which is a 29.3% increase. He
stated with the projection of increases in revenues, it is about $20,000 per 100 new single
family dwelling permits issued.
Chairperson Pflumm stated if someone is a business person looking at revenues and how
they get revenues, normally when they are not doing well is not the time to raise prices.
He stated that is his own opinion, but is normally the way it works in the business world.
He stated maybe the local other cities, such as Olathe and Overland Park, have raised
their fees and maybe not, but he would think that Shawnee would want to be doing
everything possible to try to get more billing to happen in Shawnee. He stated raising
prices would not be his recommendation.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 13
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he feels like Shawnee‟s permit fees are
more than reasonable today and even with the adjustment, which is very fair, they still
remain the least expensive for new single family by a significant margin. He stated he
thinks they are doing a technical adjustment here that is really incumbent upon him, as
the City‟s building official, to make sure they are providing a fair and just valuation for
the permit fee purposes. He stated he thinks they are being very fair.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he would agree with Chief Codes Administrator Thompson‟s
assessment, but thinks maybe his timing is not the best.
Councilmember Kuhn stated her concern is very similar as Chairperson Pflumm‟s, but in
a different area, in dealing with the timing issue. She stated looking through this
information, she knows this is a good idea and something they need to do and should
move forward with making themselves consistent and adopting these codes. She stated
she absolutely thinks that should happen. She stated her question is about the timing.
Councilmember Kuhn stated looking at some of the numbers Chief Codes Administrator
Thompson provided the Council with and some of the estimates from people she knows
he sent them to, because she heard from a number of builders, that they are looking at
numbers that are expected to be somewhere between a 4-8% increase based on some of
the things that would be adopted. She thinks a lot of it had to do with some foundations,
some changes in floor plans, and things that were long term investments in increased
Councilmember Kuhn stated what she is wondering is with the market being very soft
and just receiving more reports today that the housing market actually had a larger
decline than they expected even this month, with banks pulling back significantly from
lending to developers, with regulators coming into back and categorizing loans for very
strong developers, and then banks requiring them therefore to put more cash into the
deals and decreasing their liquid assets as well, with the market being a little harder for
buyers and the market not really offering 100% loans quite as often and etcetera, adding
that $6,000 to $10,000 and even in a higher to mid-range subdivision as her ward carries
a lot of newer homes in, she worries it might decrease even more their already soft
Councilmember Kuhn continued that she wonders, looking at the codes, nothing did she
see which she could interpret as something that would have a deep impact on safety
issues. She stated if that is not the case, then what does Chief Codes Administrator
Thompson see as being a harm to the City in maybe waiting until the next building cycle
where they normally would see an increase come back through, maybe April 1st, rather
than inputting it now in November where they might still get that last rash of quick fall
spec housing or maybe that early spring permits fold.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson presented a chart that compares the local
municipalities. He stated he thinks what it shows is that about three years ago they
adopted the 2003 codes and Overland Park moved to the 2006/07 codes. He stated
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 14
Lenexa, Leawood, and Kansas City, Missouri have moved to the 2006/08 codes. He
stated Olathe right now, as he understands it, is struggling with that very issue to move to
it and his primary reason for staying in step with the other cities is that experience and
feedback from the construction community is demanding that, but he agrees they should
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated what happens is if they stay together in the
codes, the contractors do not have to worry about what city they are building in and the
rules in different cities. He stated he has a significant feedback from a large portion of
the construction community that they want the cities all underneath the same codes and
pray they will all interpret them the same way. He stated it is the cities‟ challenge to do
that, so he feels it is his obligation to do his best to stay in step with other local
jurisdictions, all the while respecting that it is a hard time for the home industry.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if looking at those, if it might be doable to break up some.
She stated she knows there are some mechanical codes that are probably more in bringing
things in and tightening them up; things that deal more with plumbing, HVAC, and some
that deal more heavily with the structures themselves. She stated she is thinking that the
mechanical ones would not have the impact and actually might make it easier for people
to pull permits when they are doing improvements, but maybe it would not impact their
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied they could do a number of different things.
He stated the way the codes are set up today, the International Residential Code contains
electrical, plumbing, mechanical, building, structure – it is all one package and they could
certainly change portions of that and not adopt sections.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if they can adopt it all with an amendment that says they
will not enforce XY&Z until April 1st.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson answered absolutely, as they are very flexible on
that. He stated at the Council‟s direction, they could just about do anything.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated he did want to address a couple specific
things. He stated the main cost increases in the International Residential Code, as he
understands it, is the reinforcing required for concrete foundation walls has essentially
doubled. He stated that is a significant increase and he has heard a lot of different
figures, things like $2,000, $3,000, and $4,000 on increase in the cost of a typical
foundation. He stated the other thing that has changed significantly that is a big cost, is
that there is a new requirement for a water resistive barrier to be placed around a house
when people are using single panel product. He stated single panel products are very
common in their market. He stated before they could put the panel directly against the
studs and as long as everything was perfect on the exterior and no water got behind that,
that was good, but now a secondary drainage plane is a requirement and he thinks
experience has taught him that it is very difficulty to have a perfect weather barrier on the
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 15
outside, so they put in a backup system and those are the two changes to the code that he
thinks are the most significant cost increase and does not think either are bad things.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he is in agreement of the timing, as he thinks the timing
is off here. He stated if they want everyone to build in Shawnee, then keep the cheapest
rate; maybe they all will want to come to Shawnee – who knows.
City Manager Gonzales stated it is not working yet.
Chairperson Pflumm asked City Manager Gonzales how she knows that.
City Manager Gonzales replied because they do not have any single family permits.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they would have less than they have now if they had a higher
Councilmember Sandifer stated he thinks they need to keep a hold on the rate right now
until they get more productivity in their building in the City. He stated there are a couple
of things he actually like in this code adoption, one being having to produce paperwork
on what is going to happen in subdivisions, streets, stub streets, or any empty lots around
subdivisions where people have to be notified when they buy the house. He stated then
people can not say they were never told or the real estate company told them something
different; if it is in writing and they hand the information to them when they buy the
house, it is pretty much cut and dry with some of these issues they have run into in the
Councilmember Sandifer asked if any of these new codes or regulations prohibit
homeowners from building their own. He stated he knows they could do that before.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied they continue to propose that the ordinance
require that contractors who pull permits have a County license with two exceptions. He
stated one is for minor projects and the other is for homeowners who are building their
own house or working on their own house.
Councilmember Sandifer asked if that part did not change.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated that is correct.
Councilmember Sandifer asked if they can do their own work, as long as it passes code.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied if they live in the house or plan to live in it,
then that is correct.
Councilmember Goode stated they talked about reinforcing in concrete walls in
basements and asked to what extent are they proposing to increase that factor that will
run up that cost a few thousand dollars per foundation. He stated if that is the case, then
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 16
what does that cost increase because he is not aware of that answer. He stated he used to
build houses and is not aware of the answer to that question today. He asked Chief Codes
Administrator Thompson if he has studied that to find out if that is going to be a
legitimate increase in the cost of a house under those circumstances and will cost that
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied that he worked on a committee with a few
local building officials who contacted a number of engineers and geotechnical firms. He
stated the critical issue is the equivalent fluid design pressure and the weight of the soil
and how much it pushes on the walls. He stated 30 lbs per cubic foot has been used
everywhere frequently and is what the old code said. He stated the new code is forcing
60 lbs per cubic foot equivalent fluid pressure for the design of the foundation walls and
is doubling the pressure, which basically doubles the amount of reinforcing steel they
need to resist that and in his conversation with a geotechnical engineer, who he considers
very reputable and knowledgeable, he indicated that 50 to 60 lbs per cubic foot was a
reasonable range, but it depends.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson continued that it would require a soils test at each
location, but in this area that is a reasonable assumption for an area-wide basis and the
code says to use the 60 lbs. He stated he does not think it is a bad change.
Councilmember Goode stated in the older days when footings and piers meant
something, depending on what type of ground they were laying that footing on, as they
could not lay it on frail ground without putting piers if they were going to have a job. He
stated a lot of people did not do that, as they just laid it on a footing and then put the piers
in the grounds – the dropping off ground which has caused lots of problems not only in
Kansas, but in many states.
Councilmember Goode stated he is wondering about the other facets involved. He stated
if they do not put the right footings on ground that is soft and ground that is not clay or no
rock base, they are going to have some problems. He stated he is trying to figure out how
they are going to avoid those problems if they do not take care of the other things and try
to save money, like piers and footings. He stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson
knows it costs more to put in footings and if they have to drop their piers it will cost a lot
more money. He stated he has done a lot of that work in the past and people are praising
him today that they can put a brick house on that ground and show no cracks because of
what they did 15 to 20 years ago. He stated that is of concern to him, because if they do
not do the whole thing completely right and put in the extra reinforcing it still may not
solve the problem.
ROBERT ROWLAND, 14613 W. 53rd Terrace, stated he appreciates Chief Codes
Administrator Thompson‟s work and has traded some emails with him. He thanked
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson very much for those emails. He presented a
document that Overland Park produced with permitting for Overland Park as an exam of
the different areas around. He stated what they will actually find is the numbers shown,
and if he does not mind saying, Overland Park are the examples for Shawnee where for
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 17
instance, 80% less so they will call it $330.00 or $340.00 and the different buildings
where two commercials and a residential. He stated as they go down the list, they will
see with regard to the comment about people not wanting to building in Shawnee because
it could prohibit and be expensive, but Shawnee is the cheapest with permitting.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated thinks one of the issues that the code, certainly in 2006 and
potentially in the next couple of codes, there is going to be a number of work, some of the
duct work and pressurization coming back to examine to make sure about the secondary
water barriers, he, as a homeowner and past building, would be happy to know that his
city, county, and state were not the lowest cost and were not allowing the department that
ensured the safety and enforcement of the codes for the houses in which he plans on
living with his family were in.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated $428 to Tulsa, Omaha, Olathe, DeSoto, Independence, and
Kearney are cities of Shawnee‟s equal. He stated there is even so much of a greater
variance with larger amounts. He stated he is sorry that the residential market is having a
problem. He stated he is thinking about selling his house and would hate to see what they
might after 10 years, but not to have the money or permitting fees when they see that
OPKansas.org is an agenda that they built two years ago.
Chairperson Pflumm asked Mr. Rowland if Shawnee was on that list.
ROBERT ROWLAND answered no. He stated the chart shows Overland Park picking
other people that were more expensive. He stated they cherry picked their solutions. He
stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson had picked Overland Park as being more
expensive than Shawnee. He stated he was using if Overland Park was 10 and Shawnee
was 7 or 8, that looking at the other cities in the metropolitan area are substantially even
more so. He stated Shawnee is a very cost effective permitting location.
Chairperson Pflumm stated Mr. Rowland should not forget that Overland Park‟s mill levy
is about one-third of Shawnee‟s.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated from a building permit standpoint . . .
Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that, but Overland Park has people coming to
build in their city a lot more frequently than Shawnee does and his opinion is that in
experiencing a great slowdown anything that raises cost would probably not be good
timing. He stated it probably needs to wait a couple years, or maybe not a couple of
years but the Council could adopt everything that does not impose a 10% increase onto a
house. He stated a $4,000 or $5,000 increase was just mentioned on just one item, but
once they throw on the builder‟s cost and the builder‟s cost that increases relatively
quickly by the time it comes to the homeowner.
ROBERT ROWLAND asked Chairperson Pflumm if he is suggesting that selecting or
cherry picking the particular code pieces to adopt.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 18
Chairperson Pflumm replied he would opt for going status quo right now and possibly at
a later date when the City can pass on those codes and not really affect the business
community that is making a living off this.
ROBERT ROWLAND presented a document showing the states in the United States and
the counties who adopted the 2006 IECC code and/or states, counties, and cities who
have adopted a stronger code. He stated he is actually in favor of the adoption of the
codes and thinks while they have representatives of the business community here this
evening, he is not sure what representatives of the homeowner‟s community are here. He
stated potentially he is speaking as a homeowner in this particular instance.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he wants the strong codes. He stated he wants the anti-
burglary, wood reinforcement, greater wall strength and concrete on the bottom in the
piers. He stated he wants the IECC energy codes. He stated the Department of Energy
has a great document on the cost of coal in the last year. He stated it starts out low and
goes up. He stated the 2007/2008/2009 IECC codes are going to actually call for a 30%
increase in efficiency which is going to do some of the duct work blower tests.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated he would happily send the state who has adopted the 2006
IECC building codes document to the Council. He stated they have done this in many
cases fairly recently 2007 and 2008. He stated of them there is a handful. He stated
Connecticut‟s quote is “as stringent as the 2000 IECC”. He stated there is the District of
Columbia. He stated the majority as they go through, Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, and
American Samoa – every one of them have adopted it.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated the book that the builders build by in this area know if they
have to use 5,000 PSI concrete and have to have one of the guys with the long snorkel
things to drop off the concrete and use the same build. He stated they call Schutte
Lumber and do 2 X 6‟s instead of 2 X 4‟s because they are going to be putting in outside
foam to get an R19 instead of an R13. He stated it makes it much easier with what they
are doing on their roof or if they are using a radiant barrier. He stated a common code
helps the building industry much simpler, he would think, as someone.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated as a homeowner he wants it and there was a reason those
codes were developed and that is to help him. He stated he is sorry that might impact
some of the building industry, but they are going to make him pay anyway and the
reduction in the costs and the benefits when he goes to sell his house and puts on the sign
that he is green and has a Leed platinum house. He stated it is just like if someone owned
a Prius. He stated if someone owns a Prius and puts it in the newspaper for sale today, it
will be sold tomorrow. He stated if someone owns a Suburban and puts it in the
newspaper, they will be driving it next year and the houses, from the way they are going,
are the same way and some of those codes help address that issue; they make the house a
better quality product.
Chairperson Pflumm stated those are minimum codes, so normally if someone wants to
put more reinforcement in his basement and use that as a selling feature then he can. He
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 19
stated if someone wants 2 X 6 exterior walls, there are guys out there doing it right now;
they can do that.
Chairperson Pflumm stated all they are saying here tonight is that those are all good
codes, but they just need to watch when they impose them because they could very well
have a negative impact on more residential and commercial building in Shawnee.
ROBERT ROWLAND asked if there is a concern that the houses being built and the
residential products being built to a higher standard is the attractive feature, rather than
the lower standard. He stated he understands Lenexa or Olathe, up until relatively
recently, had no building codes at all.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated they did not have any energy codes.
ROBERT ROWLAND stood corrected. He stated he meant the energy codes that are
costing him money out of his pocket. He stated he welcomes the more expensive codes,
as they will save the people money.
Councilmember Straub stated he noticed there is a big difference between Shawnee‟s fees
versus the other cities. He asked if Shawnee has not been increasing them over a period
of time. He stated increasing the fees 29%, or even 18%, at once is a huge increase. He
stated if they were to increase the fees 3% per year over the last 10 years may have been
a different story, so he wonders why there is such a big discrepancy.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson explained the staff brought the valuation before
the City Council somewhere around 2002 and got direction from the Council at that time
to use the $60 and they were content with that. He stated the staff had not been staying in
step with the valuation increases, but has on the commercial side of things. He stated the
City has valuation tables they apply to commercial, so looking at the sheet they have
stayed pretty current on their permit fee structure.
Councilmember Straub stated he understands that by adopting the new codes may
increase the building cost, for the average builder and a $200,000 house, they are talking
somewhere around 3% or 5%.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson replied he can not put a good number to it and the
only thing he has heard are estimates.
Councilmember Straub stated he is actually in favor of the stronger codes, but he would
like to have things done up to the higher code if he can afford it. He stated it is not just
hurting the builder‟s cost, but the buyer as well, because if they can not afford to have a
lot of these thing, and yes if they look at houses in Shawnee that are 100 years old they
are not built as well as probably the houses today, but there are still people living in them
and happy to do that because that is where they can afford to live. He thinks the staff
definitely needs to look into this and is willing to look at both sides.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 20
Councilmember Straub stated he likes the stronger codes, but certainly does not want to
discourage construction. He stated a builder can choose to use those stronger codes and
use that as a selling point just like the Prius. He stated he will not buy a Prius because it
is not economically for him, but does not own a Suburban either.
Councilmember Distler stated she just wanted to make the comment that going door to
door she did hear many people in Fairway Hills and Wedgwood who had complaints
about rotting around their windows and doors. These people asked her why the City had
allowed that to happen and so on and so forth. She stated listening to someone say that
people are going to buy what they can afford and be happy to live with it, she knows that
she personally lives in a 30 year old house that she has completely gutted and replaced all
the windows because as it got older those things needed to be replaced. She stated she
does not want to live in a home that leaks water. It is not just one resident, as she heard
many complaints about rotting wood.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she understands the window issue and how the flashing was
and asked if that is included in tonight‟s material.
Chairperson Pflumm stated that one would have been changed a long time ago in the
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thought that as well.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated in his opinion, the code did a poor job of
prescribing quality of trim wood, for example. He stated inexpensive pieces of lumbar
may be used just as much as expensive pieces. He stated requirements for back priming
were non-existent and there were significant issues about the quality. He stated the code
still does not have significant requirements for trim and it can continue to rot, depending
on how it is installed, the quality of material, and how it is protected. He stated they do
propose more restrictive requirement for flashing, which is called rough openings.
Chief Codes Administrator Thompson stated based on his reading and research, the
amendment R will require a method to flash the rough openings so if water does get in
through a crack seal in the window or a leaking trim, or some place in there, it will drain
down to the bottom of the rough opening where the sill flashing is provided and will be
drained out to the secondary drainage plain, instead of into the planning to rot the lumber
which is what they believe if the right way to do it. He apologized that that code still has
not strengthened the requirement for trim around the windows.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated it is actually R703 – the flashing.
DAVE HOLTWICK, 14119 W. 48th Street, stated he lives in Shawnee, however tonight
he is present as a representative of the Home Builders Association of Greater Kansas
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 21
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he would start off by saying that they sincerely appreciate the
working relationship they have with Chief Codes Administrator Thompson and
appreciate his willingness to work with them with concerns that the industry and their
members have with codes and issues that come up throughout the day to day work that
DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have members that tell them they build in Shawnee
because they like it here; the process is fair and predictable. He stated they hope they can
keep it that way. He stated development is fluid and it will tend to go where the
regulations and processes are fair and predictable and the costs are manageable and fair
as well. He has heard estimates all over the board, just as Chief Codes Administrator
Thompson talked about earlier, about the costs associated with these new codes and
appreciates the recognition that there is some cost that is part of that. He stated the
gentleman who spoke before him, when he was talking about wanting additional features
in his home, he has four or five builders sitting there tonight who said, “Sign me up”, as
they are willing to build it.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have the capacity and ability to do it. He stated as
Chairperson Pflumm pointed out, this is a minimum code intended to provide minimum
life safety and be a good guidance for development that occurs. He stated they can talk
about energy efficiency as well.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated most of them should have seen an email, if not received an
invitation, and the Home Builders Association of Greater Kansas City, who he represents,
has for several years had different green initiatives. Frankly, the issue has been that they
can provide it, but will anyone buy it. He stated when it came down to time of sale, most
were interested in countertops, many not all. He stated many were more interested in the
countertops and floor coverings than they were in the less flashy features that might
provide that green home.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he will tell the Council personally that his home built five
years ago in Shawnee is one of the first green homes built under the then standard and he
has the little plaque by the door indicating that. He stated he would also like to comment
City Manager Gonzales and the City staff. He stated he believes that City Manager
Gonzales has shown many times through some of the budget preparations and things they
have seen how this City staff does a great job controlling those costs and providing
services that the citizens in Shawnee want and deserve and keeping those costs low.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated the last thing he will point out on the example presented by
Mr. Rowland, is that was done as part of a study that Overland Park did when they were
looking at raising their fees a year and a half to two years ago. He stated to compare
permit fees, a fee is set commensurate with the service provide. He stated those all
provide different levels of service in there. He stated for the City of Springhill to say that
because Overland Park is providing a permit fee that Shawnee‟s should be the same cost,
they can not compare it that way and really should be commensurate with the service
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 22
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he wants to give some updates on some of the market. He
stated they have talked a little about the market and how maybe this adoption of the new
code should be considered as they look at that. He stated builders have significantly
slowed new home starts in the area in the last 18 months in response to the build up in the
inventory. He stated Lenexa has dropped from 325 single family homes and 150
apartments permitted in 2006 to 24 single family homes so far this year. He stated
Shawnee had 269 single family permits in 2006 and 44 so far this year. He stated he
would say that is good news/bad news. He stated that his builders want to build, but
equally want to sell, so if they are continually building homes they are not able to move
that is an issue they are not able to deal with.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated sales in Johnson County year-to-date, new homes are down
30% from a year ago which fares slightly better than the metro average of 35%.
However, in the past two years sales have fallen to around 45%. He stated they should
make no doubt about it – sales, raw numbers, are down, however prices have continued to
increase slightly. He stated Johnson County new home prices have increased 3% this
DAVE HOLTWICK stated the average new home sales price in Johnson County has
topped $380,000. He stated he thinks there are several different reasons for that. Part of
that, may be that folks in some of the higher price ranges are able to have that money
available to buy some of those homes and it is more difficult in some of the lower price
DAVE HOLTWICK stated that metro-wide, new home construction is occurring at 30%
of the levels they saw at the peak of 2004 and 2005. He stated their current projections
put the metro on a pace likely to pull about 3,500 new home permits this year, which
would be the lowest number of new home permits since 1982.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated again, with the economy as it is stills struggling and concern
with what the new home market may look like, they have agreed on many of the issues in
these codes. He stated the Council saw in the document tonight that Overland Park and
Gardner both passed the 2006 code in 2006 and jumped right out, as he thinks there is
some reasoning behind them doing that. He thinks some of the other cities, with the
change in the economy and change in the market, decided it was time to take a look and
wait and see. He stated they also had a study that looked at foundation standards and
appreciate the fact that Johnson County has come up with an alternate foundation
standard to the prescriptive code. He stated they have literally doubled the reinforcement
that goes into the foundation wall now, so probably 2-4% of the that increased cost is in
DAVE HOLTWICK stated as he said, they have reached an agreement on many of the
issues and compromised on some. He stated there are still a couple of issues he would
like to raise with the Committee this evening. He stated they have actually already raised
some of them for him. He stated he was going to ask, because they had talked with Chief
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 23
Codes Administrator Thompson about why rushing to implement Olathe has discussed
the code and have discussed it for over a year. He stated the most recent discussion is
that they are not even going to consider adopting until at least December of this year. He
stated they have considered it, but said because of costs, etcetera, they do not want to do
DAVE HOLTWICK stated his request was going to be even if they adopt the codes now
that they look at waiting until at least January 1st of this year to give some time for further
inventory to be absorbed and builders to adjust to the new requirements. He stated he has
heard a later date than that and thinks they would be willing to do that as well, but had
hoped for at least January 1st.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated the second issue that has not really come up, is an issue with
window sill height. He stated he is not sure if any of them on the Council have heard
from any of the building members about this, as it is really complex. He believes it is an
amendment that is probably well intentioned, but what this amendment would do is
require that any operable window that is on a floor higher than six feet above grade or
another surface below, that the bottom of that window would need to be at least 24 inches
above the floor. He stated there are a lot of issues he can go into, whether it is for egress
issues and the alternative to that is to put a window in, but have it so it will not open more
than four inches, which is a real difficult thing to do.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated there are at least two or three issues. He stated there is design
– to change the design of their homes to allow for it. He stated they hear light glass and
thinks they have done a good job of incorporating glass into the design and there will be
design costs to change that. He stated there is also some energy efficiency costs. He
thinks some of the windows they are using now are actually more efficient than what they
could be required to use under this requirement. He stated the life safety issues of having
that window now non-operable or rose for egress in case of an emergency egress.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated because of issues with this and some concerns that even the
ICC (International Code Council) has, many local municipalities have deleted that
requirement and is their 613.2. He stated many cities have deleted that from their codes.
He stated Lenexa adopted then repealed and took it out. He stated Overland Park and
Gardner are the only two in the area that he is aware that has it. He stated he told the
Council earlier that they adopted the codes early on in the process in 2006, so he thinks
they were not as aware of some of those issues and did not look at it as closely as some of
the other cities. He stated Kansas City, Missouri removed it and Olathe told them if and
when they pass the codes they will not have that requirement. Leawood has also passed
the code and removed that requirement.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he believes that additional costs that are part of that, he
actually believes their members would give up the additional cost of the permit fee in
trade for the design costs and other issues, the marketability if you will, of the design
with that change in window requirement. He stated many of these codes they agree with
and Chief Codes Administrator Thompson talked about staying steady on the codes and
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 24
having a level playing field and they all do like that, but think it ought to be a code that is
reasonable, a minimum code and not the highest level code that they would all have to
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he appreciates his opportunity to share some thoughts with
the Committee this evening. He asked for questions.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he was reading this and must have missed that, but it is in
DAVE HOLTWICK stated that proposal is part of the current document and he is asking
that their 613.2 be amended out to what they are currently looking at, because as it stands
right now he believes Chief Codes Administrator Thompson still has that included in the
Councilmember Sandifer asked Mr. Holtwick if he feels the builders would not have a
problem with Shawnee raising the permit fee if they would take this out.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he was trading horses at that point. He stated he thinks it
would be difficult for him to say. He stated he will say that he thinks Shawnee‟s fees are
reasonable and again, he thinks someone pointed out how long it has been since they
have had an increase. He stated it is a whole lot easier for this industry to handle a
gradual steady increase than to handle a 29% increase all at once. He stated what he
really meant to say if he did not say it earlier, is that he believes the costs, as part of this
home, is a whole lot more substantial in that window requirement than it would be in the
building permit fee being talked about increasing.
Councilmember Sandifer asked Mr. Holtwick if they were to adjust the amendment on
the windows and go ahead and raise the fee, he does not think there would be a big
problem with this.
DAVE HOLTWICK answered he does not think there would be.
Councilmember Sawyer stated if he understands Mr. Holtwick correctly, he is in
agreement with everything except 613.2 and that they look at starting this at a different
date. He thinks they are looking at November and he would be in favor of going clear
through the first quarter of next year. He agrees that the City needs to change their codes
so the builders know what they are building and people know what they are getting. He
stated there is never a good time to raise fees or change codes, or they would have done
something since 2002.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he personally thinks the market is soft today. Some
people say it is terrible, but he believes it is soft, a cycle, and will come back around. He
stated he is happy to hear that Mr. Holtwick is in agreement.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 25
DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have worked very closely as an association with the
building code officials in Johnson County. He stated most of what they are looking at in
the codes this evening is consistent with what they are building to in Overland Park and
Lenexa today. He stated going back to 2000 when the International Codes were
introduced, their association was one of the strongest proponents, if not the strongest, to
go to these international codes. He thinks there were some massive changes that
occurred in the first two or three cycles. He would like to see them considering at some
point maybe not going every third year and look at every sixth year. He thinks there may
also be some code officials in the area that might agreement with doing it that way.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated the learning curve on the new code and the cost of the books
frankly almost makes it prohibitive.
Councilmember Sawyer asked Mr. Holtwick how they, in his opinion, should work to
move on 613.2. He stated they can not leave it there forever, so how should they get
DAVE HOLTWICK stated 613.2 is the window sill height. He stated the International
Code Council, as they have been told, once that requirement passed asked their staff to do
a study on how many falling issues there had been from windows. He thinks honestly
until they see there has been an issue that needs to be addressed they will be fine. He
stated the code development process is a political process. He stated there are items that
make it into the code because of strong lobbying and strong product representation. It is
not a perfect system, but he thinks it works pretty well. He stated from his take right now,
purely removing it would be the best thing and they will see if the ICC comes back with a
study that shows a true need for it.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he can understand how it got there, because all it takes is
one child falling through a window and someone will say it is too low; there are many
factors why a child might fall out of a window.
Councilmember Kuhn stated looking at the conversation they have had, she is somewhat
concerned as a Council that they are going into it backwards. She stated they are all
looking at a number of items, 613.2, the basement foundation, and the question about
increasing the fees as things they are concerned about that have the most impact,
especially in the timeliness. She stated everything else in the codes tightens up some
things that might have conflicts that would be dealing with the mechanical issues, deals
with cleaning up some of the verbiage as far as the flashing and tightens up things that
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks they may be throwing the baby out with the
bathwater by saying they should wait to do anything on the codes until they figure out
how those things are impacted. She asked why it does not make more sense to adopt all
the codes, exempting 613.2, and not enforcing it or amending to say „not enforceable
until that first quarter‟ for those couple of things that really have an impact. She stated if
they do that, then they can address the things she thinks Chief Codes Administrator
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 26
Thompson has in there that are very valid points and that other industries need to have in
place so they do not end up with it becoming a life issue because someone did not hook it
up because it should have been.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated maybe he misspoke, but that would be his suggestions; that
the codes be adopted as they are and if they could delay the implementation date
somewhat that would be good. He stated other than the R613.2 that he has asked to
possibly delete, they have agreed to all the other amendments.
Councilmember Kuhn asked if the two that Mr. Holtwick understands from his industry
that would be the most impact for the cost associated with building them thereby maybe
decreasing the possibility of more permits being pulled, or decreasing the ability of the
consumers to maybe be able to afford them, would be the two biggest issues – the
basement foundation and the fees. She asked about the environmental portion and if it
adds a lot of cost.
DAVE HOLTWICK asked Councilmember Kuhn if she is talking about the energy
Councilmember Kuhn answered yes.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated there are minimum standards that are set on insulation on all
of those kinds of things. He stated they can go above that. He stated Mr. Rowland talked
about LEED, which is a commercial based rating system. He stated from residential,
they believe there are other standards. He stated in fact, the National Association of
Home Builders has developed a standard that they believe is ANSI rated, which is the
national association for rating the efficiency of those items. He stated they believe there
is a different system that is better for that.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated they have agreed to this energy efficiency code in the past
and he thinks it makes sense to do, so there are some associated costs. He stated homes
are built so much better now than when he joined the association eight years ago. He
stated at that time they tried to get window manufacturers to come speak to the
association and give a demonstration on how to correctly flash and install windows. He
stated they were frankly so afraid of it with some of the issues with leaking and mold. He
stated it is required today that every window manufacturer has to provide that with their
window. They have to give guidance on how that window should be installed and
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he thinks the codes have progressed a long ways and there
have been some costs associated with it, but also some savings. He stated took the two
layers of house wrap for example. He stated one of the studies performed on mold and
infiltration and stucco issues before showed that second layer of house wrap probably
made more sense to have that secondary drainage plane, rather than trapping the water
behind the stucco or molding on the home, get it to that second drainage plane where it
would then leave the house. He stated that all makes sense. He thinks building science
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 27
has changed a lot and the new codes have made great progress. He stated they are
supportive of this, but just think with some of the items if there is a reason for it and there
is a life safety or energy efficiency reason, they are all about it.
Councilmember Kuhn stated that was what she was suggesting and can not make an
actual vote on this committee, but when it would go to Council she would suggest that
they actually adopt the code exempting the 613.2 and wait to actively enforce the
portions dealing with the fees, the basement foundations, and really the environmental
and do it on April 1, 2009. She stated that would get them to the first quarter of the year
and allow builders to hopefully move some of the inventory and be in a cash position to
carry some of those things.
Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to recommend
the Council adopt the updated construction codes as presented by staff, exempting 613.2,
with enforcement to begin on April 1, 2009.
Councilmember Sandifer asked if they are talking about not enforcing anything until
April 1, 2009.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they should make the whole change April 1, 2009.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated there is a new code in 2009 and the City will be a curve
City Manager Gonzales stated they are always a curve behind only because it takes so
long to look at the new codes.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if the motion addresses the fees.
Councilmember Sandifer replied after listening to Mr. Holtwick and since he is in charge
of the Home Builders Association, they have agreed it is not a big issue and he agrees
Councilmember Sawyer stated he would second that.
Chairperson Pflumm asked for clarification of the motion on the floor. Does it include
increasing the fees and adopting the 2006 resolution without R613.2?
Councilmember Sandifer answered yes, exactly.
City Manager Gonzales stated the motion needs to include on the fees aspect to direct the
codes administrator, because by statute Chief Codes Administrator Thompson is actually
the one who can make the decision.
Councilmember Goode stated nothing happens until April 1, 2009.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 28
Councilmember Straub stated there were two operations for fee increases, one at 18% and
one at 29%. He stated Chief Codes Administrator Thompson recommended the 29% and
to him that is a huge increase. He stated he does not mind increasing the fees, but
thought they would do it incrementally every year. He stated granted the City may have
put this off longer than they should have, but that is a huge job.
Councilmember Sawyer stated converting the 29% to dollars equates to $200.00. He
stated 18% equates to $125.00, so going with the 29% is $75.00 more.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he can not see himself voting for an increase right now, plus
adopting codes that will increase the price of a house, so he is not in favor.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated the 612.3 in reading the notes on the ICC commission
which is available to anyone who Googles them, the original committee that made the
decision actually voted to not have the standard which is what the HVA wants. He
believes there is some clarification as to the height of the window and the maximum
height is 72. He stated they are talking about fairly tall windows and 100 people died last
year with the ICC clarification.
ROBERT ROWLAND stated when the ICC voted not to have the 24 inch, the entire ICC
group or organization overrode them. He stated perhaps if he may use a small example,
the Council saying not having that standard is acceptable, they believe that to be correct,
they are the window group and then the whole organization came back and said that is a
really important component and 100 people died. He stated there is some flashing cover
things to keep people from falling through and he does know if they are allowable by the
standard, they then decided it was important enough to maintain it into the codes.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if 100 people fell through windows that were below 24
ROBERT ROWLAND replied below 24 inches and 72 inches in height.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he is just asking because maybe 100 people fell out of
windows including skyscrapers or whatever.
ROBERT ROWLAND explained the discussion were people who were participants back
in 2006 – part of the ICC code organization discussions and ended up with the standard
being if they are greater or lower than a second story window and is 72 inches in
maximum height. He stated he thinks there are some things the window can not open; it
is a fixed plate window and still acceptable if he is not mistaken. He believes the intent is
to protect children from falling through, so they can not pass a 4” sphere through an
opening. He stated most adults will not fall through windows, but the children.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated he feels as if he may have misled Councilmember Kuhn and
clarified what he was asking for is if they want to adopt the codes now, but hold off on
the implementation or enforcement of the entire code because it is a family of codes and
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 29
he thinks that entire family should be enforced or go into effect the same time, so that
was why he was asking, adopt them now if they want, but do not implement or enforce
until at least January 1, 2009. He stated under the example given, if they adopt and
accept today and say it is their intention to implement these codes at whatever date, they
need, as an industry, some time to ramp up, gear up, and start making changes.
DAVE HOLTWICK stated it is not as extensive now, but the rise and rung on stairs
changed. He stated they can not just change the rise and rung on stairs and it takes time
for them, as an industry, to adjust to that so that is why he had asked for whatever it
might be and if they would wait to implement or enforce at a future date.
Therefore the motion read:
Councilmember Sandifer, seconded by Councilmember Sawyer, moved to recommend
the Council adopt the updated construction codes as presented by staff, exempting 613.2,
with enforcement to begin on April 1, 2009. The motion tied 2-2, with Councilmembers
Sawyer and Sandifer voting aye and Councilmembers Pflumm and Straub voting nay;
therefore, the item will be forwarded with no recommendation
Councilmember Straub explained his reasoning behind his vote. He stated he is not in
favor of increasing the fees at this time. He stated they may look at it at a different time,
but a 29% increase to him is too high.
City Manager Gonzales stated the motion will move forward to the Council with a tied 2-
2 vote and be placed on the agenda as is.
3. BUDGET SESSION VI: WRAP UP.
Chairperson Pflumm stated this is the final budget review by the Committee and will
include a presentation by the City Manager of the most current fund forecasts and what is
recommended in the 2008Revised and 2009 budget.
City Manager Gonzales stated the first part of tonight‟s presentation is the one remaining
fund that has yet to be reviewed – the Convention and Visitor‟s Bureau (CVB) Fund.
She stated Linda Leeper is here this evening representing the CVB. She stated Ann and
Lauren are present to speak toWonderscope and will be the first component to tonight‟s
presentation and will get into the wrap-up later in the evening.
LINDA LEEPER, Shawnee Chamber of Commerce, stated she is representing for the
CVB presentation. She started with a very general overview:
The Shawnee CVB functions under a contract with the Chamber of Commerce
and operations within an established set of by-laws. The framework for its
governance is set under city ordinance.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 30
The CVB Committee is appointed by the Mayor, with the approval of the
Governing Body and its Executive Committee consists of the CVB Chairman,
CVB Vice-Chairman, President of the Chamber and the City Manager.
LINDA LEEPER stated the Executive Committee of the CVB is made up of the 2008
Chairman, Maria Preston-Cargill, Vice Chairman, Ann Zimmerman, herself, and City
Manager Gonzales. In addition, there are 12 other members of that volunteer committee.
Of those members, Councilmember Sandifer and Councilmember Scott represent the City
Council. They also have Parks and Recreation Director Holman representing the Parks
and Recreation Department.
LINDA LEEPER stated the 2008 staffing levels are in line with all the other budget
presentations. There is one full time employee at the Chamber of Commerce, Kevin
Fern, who just joined in May of this year. She stated Kevin has a passion for the City and
will do very well in this position. Also, from the Chamber Board is Vice Chairman Dave
LINDA LEEPER read the Mission Statement: The Shawnee CVB is a Destination
Marketing Organization (DMO), whose sole objective is to promote travel and tourism in
the community through the efficient and effective use of public relations tools and
promotional activities to create a positive economic impact in the tourism sector of the
LINDA LEEPER continued with Ongoing Programs.
Involvement in community and civic events and activities that promote the city as
a destination for others. (Old Shawnee Days, concerts)
LINDA LEEPER stated they market the CVB cups which include the website for
the CVB. They have given out nearly 15,000 of those cups since they started that
campaign last summer. Obviously, that is an opportunity to market to the
Continued membership and taking a proactive leadership role in the Travel
Industry Association of Kansas, Tour Kansas, Kansas City Regional Destination
Alliance, Kansas City Convention a& Visitors Association and other state and
regional professional travel & tourism associations and organizations.
LINDA LEEPER stated they are actually a player and gets their name out there
and are able to be a part of the overall marketing of the regional area.
Continued monitoring and further enhancements to the new CVB website
(www.shawneekscvb.com), utilizing state of the art technology and tools to
capture more market share.
LINDA LEEPER stated 70% of the people getting ready to travel will check
things out first on the Internet, so the website is extremely important.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 31
Continued in-house production of quality and comprehensive Visitor‟s Guides,
Maps, Events, Calendars, and other collateral needed to promote the Community
as a destination.
LINDA LEEPER stated they have software and equipment that they share with
the other divisions which makes thing very cost efficient for flyers for events and
activities coming up which is very helpful.
LINDA LEEPER continued with the 2008/09 Objectives:
Continue partnership with the city and chamber in the implementation of the
branding initiative, including enhanced website presence.
LINDA LEEPER stated they feel like this is extremely important and once they
get the final results of the branding taskforce back and all its details, they will
understand why it is extremely important that they get out and support the
Create a new level of awareness to better attract additional hospitality related
business investments that will contribute to the objective of diversifying our tax
LINDA LEEPER stated this has become challenging.
Maintain the production of high quality and comprehensive print and multi-media
collateral to promote the community as a destination.
A 1% increase in the guest occupancy tax, a position supported by the Board of
the Chamber of Commerce and the CVB Committee.
LINDA LEEPER stated the Board of Directors has approved this and the CVB
Committee has approved to recommend to the Governing Body to consider that
1% increase in guest tax. She stated it might be the same theory as the other, in
that they might be the lowest in the area. It is actually a tax that obviously visitors
and travelers come in and pay and the CVB gets the benefit of that tax. She stated
it is not a tax that is as visible as some taxes. She stated traditionally they do not
call a hotel and ask about the guest tax. She stated they are currently at 5% and
all their neighboring cities are at 6%, 7%, and 9%, so Shawnee is at the low point.
She stated they have discussed this tax and is one of the objectives that the
Council would consider increasing.
Councilmember Straub asked what kind of increase does the 1% project.
LINDA LEEPER replied she believes the 1% increase going from the 5% to 6% would
generate $61,000 in 2009.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 32
Councilmember Sawyer stated that would be a 20% increase, it is 1% each point, but a
20% increase paid for by people coming here to stay.
LINDA LEEPER continued with the Future Challenges:
With downturn in the economy and rising gas prices, the likely result will be less
business travel and shorter distance travel by the leisure consumer, must be able
to take advance of the opportunity by capturing short trip traveler to hotels and
LINDA LEEPER stated some marketing as taken place to make people stay close
in and visit the attractions near and in Shawnee.
Competition for new build properties will increase dramatically with challenges in
the economy, making the potential for new properties remove unless substantial
tax concessions are available to potential developers.
LINDA LEEPER stated the competition is very tough. She stated Olathe has a
new convention center and an Embassy Suites Hotel coming in and have actually
wavered guest tax to get that facility to come to Olathe and build. She stated they
are hearing about a lot of abatements and activities coming up in cities that are
aggressive, so it becomes harder for Shawnee to compete.
Councilmember Sawyer stated Olathe did not waiver it, but will still charge the
customer and it goes back. The customer is still paying.
Preliminary branding data shows that Shawnee is not known as a destination for
LINDA LEEPER stated that was pretty clear. She stated they got this from the
research and surveys that related to talking to residents and people from out of the
area. She stated they are solid about promoting to come to Shawnee and live and
build a business here, but they do not say enough about coming to Shawnee to
visit, as there are attractions here and other things to do. She stated that full
circles around to the Branding and what they can do with that effort.
ANN ZIMMERMAN introduced Lauran Hess who just started. She stated they want to
talk a little about Wonderscope and started out by thanking for the appropriation last
year, the $20,000, to support marketing efforts for Wonderscope and drive tourism. She
stated she does think this is a wonderful way to leverage the guest tax monies they get
through the guest tax and hotels. She stated as being a part of the CVB and other
initiatives in Shawnee, she is excited that Wonderscope can help support that.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 33
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they have a common goal among all those organizations,
including Wonderscope, which is to attract more visitors to Wonderscope and to
Shawnee in general. She started with some target advertising. She stated the Council
was provided with a full comprehensive list in their packet. They do a lot of advertising
in parenting magazines, tourism publications, and have various coupons and free passes
out. The have a new sponsorship agreement with The Shawnee Dispatch which has
really helped leverage the way they advertise in that publication. She stated they have
online calendars, email blasts, and a real comprehensive way to go out to the media.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated she did want to point out a couple things. She stated they
were called and asked to be featured in Treasures of the Heartland, a coffee table book,
being done on Kansas City. She stated on a whim as she was getting ready for this
presentation, Googled the Kansas City CVB to see if they were represented on that
website. She was happy to see that without Wonderscope asking them, they were listed
as one of “Just For Kids Three Things to Try” out in Kansas City. She stated
Wonderscope has increased its awareness across the metro area, so they are excited to see
people from across the metro area coming to the museum.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they are very active in Outreach in the community. In the
past year they have increased the number of places where they go out into the community
and bring arts and science activities from the Legends and Power & Light District every
weekend to larger events like the Plaza Art Fair, where they have a 20 X 40 tent. She
stated this year the brand new music festival, Jiggle Jam, they had a 40 X 40 ten and saw
over around 4,000 families in a two-day period, so it is a great way for them to get out
into the community.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated the last two years they have enjoyed the partnership with
their wonderful new neighbor, Splash Cove. She thanked the Council for bringing them
to the neighborhood. She stated last year when the pool opened they had a big block
party to celebrate and did it again this year. She stated they grew from about 300 visitors
last year to about 1,000 people that day. She stated it was a great day, they had an
outdoor concert, Radio Disney, and lots of spots on the radio. She stated it was a great
event and Splash Cove is wonderful to work with and they look forward to growing it
even more next year.
ANN ZIMMERMAN asked what the impact to the initiatives to Wonderscope is and to
the City in general. She stated first of all, they have seen museum visitors increase 25%
higher in the first quarter of 2008. She stated museum members have increased by 50%
over June levels last year (2007). She stated they attribute this to a number of things.
They have a new exhibit and have gone through the merger with the Children‟s Museum
of Kansas City and gained some new members through that merger. She stated a lot of
that has been a result of increased marketing. She stated she is proud to see this number
increase, because it is easy to get someone in the door, but is a whole different thing to
get them to come back.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 34
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated people that bought memberships are people who want to
come back on a regular basis and visit the museum. She stated they are thrilled with that
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Wonderscope members can gain resident accident to Splash
Cove the Soetaert pool. They are well on track to surpass last year‟s numbers. The
second graph shows the number of pool memberships that people bought last year as
compared to this year, so they are up to 41 pool memberships. She stated if they add up
the revenues, it comes to incremental pool revenues of about $14,000, so they are excited
their members are enjoying the pool and having a great time when they come to
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Lauran will talk about the rest of this year and where they
plan on going next year.
LAURAN HESS stated they merged with Beyond the Book last May, which was an
emerging children‟s museum. She stated this past May, they merged with the Children‟s
Museum of Kansas City which has been located at Indian Springs Mall for a long time.
She stated in the long term, this means that all three organizations that believe in creating
at the Children‟s Museum are now all working together to create one top quality
children‟s museum for the Kansas City metro area.
LAURAN HESS stated in the short term when they close the Indian Springs location on
August 9th, that means all their current visitors, members, and the recyclable materials
center, which is a real strength of theirs, and programming that really reaches out to
underserved audiences, will all move to the Shawnee location.
LAURAN HESS stated they have been going through a process of exhibit master
planning since January and developing the educational framework of what they want kids
to learn and be able to do when they come to them. She stated they are developing new
exhibit concepts. She presented an early draft concept drawing of their new facility. She
emphasized that the exhibits and programs in their current location are just going to be
enriched and expanded into 20,000 square feet of exhibit space in their new location, so
that is about three times the amount they currently have and are very committed to
creating a world class destination for the Kansas City metro area.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if they are talking about a new facility and not expanding to
the current facility.
LAURAN HESS replied there are a couple of different ways they can go. She stated they
are looking at a number of different sites. She stated the question that everyone asks is
about the current site place and they have a site selection team who just met for the first
time and are looking at site criteria. She stated they are examining all the possibilities of
staying at the current site, and looking at going into an existing site or possibly doing a
new build. She stated they are very actively researching options in Shawnee.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 35
LAURAN HESS stated they are getting ready to launch a capital campaign. She stated
typical museums of this size in other communities have been about a $15-20 million
project, so they have a lot of money to raise. She stated while they are raising that
money, they are very committed to the current site in creating the wonderful and wonder-
filled experiences. She stated they will be testing exhibit and program concepts to get
ready for their new museum and build on their current strengths and on new audiences to
make sure all the visitors who come to the current site are having a wonderful experience
and come back again and again.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they love being in partnership with the City and are very
thrilled to have the City‟s past support and would love their support going forward at the
same amount ($20,000). She stated they pledge to leverage that and bring even more
visitors to Shawnee.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they talk about all the people who come to Wonderscope
and all those who come to Splash Cove, which is three months a year. He stated he has
talked to Kevin Fern at great length about this and asked if there is any way to quantify
what they believe is the number of people who come to Shawnee to these facilities and
actually spend money elsewhere.
ANN ZIMMERMAN replied that would be something like an economic impact study.
She stated they do not have that specifically for Wonderscope, but arts organizations
across the nation have actually gone in and done those studies where they show that
people who come here are also going to go out to dinner and do other things. She stated
her only response would be that the average visitor to Wonderscope is a mom with 2-3
kids ages 4 and under. She stated being a mom and having kids like that, when they go
out for the day she can guarantee them there is also a trip to McDonalds and probably the
store and several other errands along the way trying to be as efficient as possible.
Councilmember Sawyer asked from where is the average visitor is coming. He stated he
does not know if Ann can even tell him the answer. He wonders the overall percentage
of visitors from Shawnee, or from Merriam, or from outside of the Shawnee area. He
stated there should be a way to figure out if they are getting people from outside of
Shawnee or if the biggest percentage is from Shawnee.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he does not want to have to read in the newspaper like he
did last year when the City gave them $20,000 that Wonderscope has merged and are
thinking of moving. He stated that was in the newspaper last year shortly after the
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated they merged and they were growing. She stated people
always want to shift that around to make things a little more exciting.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he did not print the paper.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 36
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated she hopes they do move out of their current situation,
because she can not bring any more people.
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is not what it said last year; it said out of Shawnee.
Chairperson Pflumm stated the newspaper does not always have the correct information.
He stated Ann and her staff can determine what is correct with their facility.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated Lauran addressed it because they did just go through a
recent merger. She stated those were all very strategic mergers to try to create one
children‟s museum in Kansas City that might have a chance to raise some money to
create something fantastic. She stated that was the first step, in that they have to
strategically put themselves in a market position to do that. She thinks the next step is
that they now have the combined boards that have to look at the best place for the facility.
She stated they are looking at a lot of options, including Shawnee.
Councilmember Sawyer stated his concern is the commitment level is on the board and
he does not have any idea who is on the board except for Kevin Tubbesing. He stated
those are concerns that the feels they should concern themselves with and are willing to
invest in it, but he wonders if the people are committed to wanting to stay in Shawnee.
Chairperson Pflumm stated if they do not invest anything, it is a good possibility that they
would not be committed.
ANN ZIMMERMAN stated it is a one year commitment in terms of the actual donation.
She stated the reality is that it takes a non-profit a long time to raise $15-20 million. She
stated she has been at this for a long time and is still not there. She thinks they are
definitely committed to creating great experiences in 2009 and are looking at a lot of
Councilmember Kuhn stated that was the direction in which she wanted to expand. She
thinks with Wonderscope they need to look at it at the long term. She stated she can not
think of anyone on the Council who is probably more actively being at Wonderscope and
being involved with it and has a real passion for wanting to see it stay, but they also need
to look at it as what it is, being one of Shawnee‟s destination spots. She stated there is no
guarantee with anything that a destination spot will be there the next year for whatever
fiscal reason, or that it will not change or that there will not need to be a move. She
thinks the best thing they can do is invest in it, so they can make sure that while it is here
it gives the City the best return on their investment. She thinks they saw that with the
Splash Cove partnership this last year. She stated if the numbers are accurate, they have
seen a return on the investment, $20,000 and almost $14,000 coming back in a
Councilmember Kuhn stated as Ann pointed out, it will take years not only necessarily to
raise the money, but to build or do and she would love to see it done in Shawnee, but
until that point in time making sure they are investing in one of their largest draws that
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 37
also helps the downtown area in Shawnee and something they need to do. She stated
especially since it is not coming from something that is a general fund. She stated
supporting things like Wonderscope, the branding campaign, and the CVB are not a
trade-off on a lane mile or sidewalk. She stated these are a dedicated portion of that
special visitor‟s tax that are used specifically to continue to generate more tax revenue in
a different arena such as sales tax and something they need to continue.
Councilmember Sandifer stated he agrees with Councilmember Kuhn. He stated being
on the CVB and having the consent of the CVB to use part of their money and funds to
put towards this organization, he agrees this is probably, again, the best thing to do for
Councilmember Kuhn stated she attended the block party, both last year at the kickoff,
and also had the opportunity to attend this year. She stated one thing that was brought to
her attention is that the block party starts at a relatively earlier portion of the day and the
pool opens a few hours later. She asked about those start times, if they are actually
looking to have a partnership between the two facilities.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated there has already been discussion on that
particular issue. He stated the staff is already at the pool, so opening the pool would
coincide a little better for the block party in the future.
Councilmember Kuhn stated if those partnerships continue to grow and making those
pieces fit together will give the City even more benefit.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks they should get a committee appointed to
investigate what sites there is available with things that Shawnee can do and find out their
City Manager Gonzales replied when Jim Allen was the Chairman of the Chamber, he
appointed a committee that met a couple of times. She stated they just had a study
performed and Linda Leeper has the book. They are waiting to get past this budget
period and that committee needs to be reconvened with that exact purpose, to determined
what it is they need to do, offer, and what kind of package to put together to keep
Wonderscope in Shawnee, so that action is definitely happening.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if it has been communicated what kind of timeframe their
committee is going on, as far as site selection is concerned.
City Manager Gonzales replied the site selection committee is just starting to meet. She
stated the staff needs to move forward from their standpoint and hopefully over the next
few months they can put together as much information as possible.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if there is a rough conceptual drawing of what has been
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 38
City Manager Gonzales replied the City has some drawings that Bill Yarger did and
asked him if they decide to stay by Splash Cove, what it could look like.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if they spent some money on those drawings.
City Manager Gonzales answered yes, a little money. She stated that would be part of
what would be included as part of a bigger package.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if that has been presented to Wonderscope.
City Manager Gonzales answered no.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if the drawings met their needs, because Wonderscope just
merged with a third entity. He asked if they just took the current piece of ground and
made suggestions of what could possibly be done.
City Manager Gonzales explained the committee, which was formed by the Chamber,
met and Ann Zimmerman gave a presentation that outlined at that time that the Board had
gone through and identified square footage needs, visibility needs, among a variety of
things. Those things were given to Bill Yarger, as well as to an individual who did some
research for the City to look at what it could look like at their current location to meet
their needs. These are very preliminary and conceptual. She stated the staff would like
to define them and incorporate them into a bigger package before they presented anything
and get more people involved in the process.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he would be interested in seeing them.
City Manager Gonzales continued with the CVB highlights.
Revenue enhancement by increasing guest occupancy assessment by 1%, making
it compatible with the rate in surrounding municipalities, a position supported by
the Chamber Board and the CVB Committee. This will increase transfer amount
to CVB and to the General Fund.
$20,000 support for Old Shawnee Days.
$20,000 support for Wonderscope Children‟s museum of Kansas City.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City Council has to approve the 1% increase. She
stated her recommendation would be to bring resolution on July 28th to implement on
January 1, 2009 and the Council will make their final decision at that time. She stated
she has spoken with the ownership of both hotels who said that no one likes to increase
taxes, but understands that everyone else around them are at that rate and they certainly
will not oppose it.
City Manager Gonzales stated the $20,000 for Old Shawnee Days and to support
Wonderscope comes off the top and the remaining just gets split and whatever does come
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 39
in is transferred to the General Fund and an allocation to the Convention and Visitors
City Manager Gonzales stated the tourism tax increase is 2% over 2008 and the 1%
increase in the tax overall, resulting in a projection of about $61,000 for the 2009 budget.
Councilmember Straub asked about the $20,000 to Old Shawnee Days and Wonderscope
and if City Manager Gonzales said the remainder gets split into the General Fund.
City Manager Gonzales explained 50% of the remainder goes into the General Fund to
fund Shawnee Town. She stated it has to be used to fund tourism or economic
development efforts. She stated that portion is offset to subsidize the General Fund
expenditures for Shawnee Town and the other 50% goes to the CVB for their
City Manager Gonzales stated a new hotel has been approved and they will hopefully
begin construction soon. She stated they did not project an increase until 2010 for that
Chairperson Pflumm asked if there are any stats.
City Manager Gonzales replied they have not been contacted by IRBs yet, which would
probably be one of the first steps. She stated the plan is approved and ready to go, in
terms of the Planning Commission and the City Council‟s approval.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that part.
City Manager Gonzales stated they did come back to the Planning Commission about two
weeks ago and actually had a change to ownership and had some minor changes for them
to change. She stated they are obviously still actively working on the project.
Break: 9:15 p.m.
Meeting resumed at 9:23 p.m.
City Manager Gonzales stated she will give some overview comments this evening and
review each fund. She stated they have already been through them so she will not spend
much time on every fund, but when they were presented on earlier dates not everything
was final, so her presentation this evening is her recommended 2008E and 2009 budget.
She stated this is the time for the Council to tell her if they do not want to do something
and would rather do something else, ask questions, or bring up issues. She stated they
have talked about most of this before, so there will not be many surprises. She stated the
staff has worked very hard over the last two weeks to bring things together.
City Manager Gonzales stated as much as she would like to say that this budget is going
to be over in July, it will not be because they can not continue the pace they are
continuing of spending more than they are bringing in. She stated this budget mandates
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 40
things, but they are going to have to keep talking about choices in the future and she will
talk further about that later in the presentation.
City Manager Gonzales stated she has talked about the concept of Fiscal Capacity. She
stated the City has resources, revenues, and services that cost money. She stated they can
only provide services that can be afforded within the resources they have. She presented
some Internet definitions of Fiscal Capacity. The ability to pay for services provided in a
community. It reflects the way City funds are collected and allocated to meet the needs of
City Manager Gonzales stated the City‟s Fiscal Capacity is affected by a lot of things. It
is affected by state law that gives them certain revenue sources to use and there is only
certain ways they can raise money. She stated it is affected by different government roles,
i.e. the school districts and counties. She stated it is affected by, most importantly, and
probably the biggest challenge today by the economy, so that is why the City is really in
their current position. She stated it is affected by the tax base that shapes the fiscal
capacity to create revenue.
City Manager Gonzales stated to assess the financial where-with-all is what they do when
they are determining fiscal capacity. She stated they need to determine if they can carry
on their current activities and commitments in the fiscal capacity they have and assume
anything new for debt and capital infrastructure. She asked if they can expand or take on
new programmatic services. She stated the staff has talked about that they can barely
carry on what they are currently doing and will not be able to in the future with the City‟s
current fiscal capacity.
City Manager Gonzales stated the assessment is based on many means. She stated these
are obviously fiscal decisions and are political. She stated they are the biggest policy
decisions that the Council is elected to make and are very hard decisions.
City Manager Gonzales presented the City‟s fiscal capacity and all their revenue in all
funds in one slide. She stated it shows the 2009 budget as she is presenting tonight and is
recommending and based on whatever input the Council gives tonight, they will bring
back a notice next Monday, July 14, 2008, for publication of the maximum tax level they
City Manager Gonzales presented charts showing the services provided by the City‟s
current fiscal capacity – the costs for all the things they do; the services provided to the
community. She stated these have been defined in Programs, which is a new concept for
the staff. She stated if they have to start looking not being able to afford services, they
can be looked at in terms of what services should they not do anymore and have just
started determining that process of defining and have yet to cost these things out in the
City Manager Gonzales stated as the staff approached this budget, to reiterate, they have
tried to keep their values in mind.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 41
Decisions for the Greater Good
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff has worked at these things long and hard. She
thinks community pride makes all of this very hard, because the City is so proud of what
they do and it is hard to quit doing some things.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff has tried to keep their strategic goals as whole as
possible with the budget she will present and has been talked about.
Support and promote quality development to create a sustainable community
providing a high quality of life.
Support and promote opportunities to experience and foster a more sustainable
and environmentally-sensitive Community.
Enhancing the Sense of Community
Work together as a community to build upon what has been established over the
past 150 years.
Continue to provide the highest quality of life for all citizens including public
safety for all businesses and citizens, keeping our community a beautiful place
to live and providing opportunities for our youth population.
Living Within our Means
With flat revenues and increasing expenses, make choices with regard to what
levels of service the community will accept and will support financially.
Maximize efficiencies in operations and revenues must be maximized prior to
proposing significant cuts in services.
City Manager Gonzales stated certainly living within their means has risen to prominence
in the goals this year. She stated they talked about this earlier in the budget session, in
that they need to determine what they are going to do and do it well. She stated that helps
staff continue to have pride in what they do.
City Manager Gonzales stated she will present fund by fund and try to go through the
budgets for 2008 and 2009 quickly. She stated Finance Director Kidney will talk about
revenues up front, because some of the revenue numbers have been moving targets.
Finance Director Kidney stated obviously in a municipal government, resources are tax
based. He presented a graph showing that taxes represent 82% of the City‟s total
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 42
revenue. He stated when they are focusing on their revenue projections, they are really
spending a lot of time on that 82%, not to say the remaining amount is not important. He
reported on a couple of things that have changed since the last time they presented
Finance Director Kidney stated most of the things on non-tax are things where they have
not really seen any change since the last time he took the Council through them. He
stated the projections on the chart have not really changed at all and there might be a
$100 here or there that has changed. He stated interest income might be a little light in
the new projection, but he does not want to increase it more than it sits right now given
the market. He stated the staff just restructured to how they do investments and think
they will come in a little higher than the $603,000.
Finance Director Kidney stated he broke down the tax portion to show it in perspective.
He stated 43% of the City‟s total taxes are property taxes. He stated that is a real
understood stable amount they can calculate. He stated the one big unknown has always
been what the assessed value is going to be. He stated in the past Shawnee has always
been 7-8% assessed valuation – historically. He stated last year when the staff put
together the projections for 2009 long term, they were looking at 5% this year and
obviously it was down. He stated the staff knew it was going to be down, so they
anticipated a 1.5% assessed valuation increase. He stated the staff just received the
numbers and it came in at an increase of .06%, so basically it was flat.
Finance Director Kidney presented Assessed Valuation for Ad Valorem Taxes. It include
the 2006 tax year for the 2007 budget, the 2007 tax year for the 2008 budget, and the
April 1st estimate had real estate in at $693,038,135 assessed value and actually came in
at $686,121,098 which is not quite the increase they hoped to see. He stated Personal
Property had been anticipated at a 12% drop and it dropped more than that from $40
million down to $33 million. He stated that is directly attributable to two years ago with
the exempted new equipment for taxation. He stated with the State assessed utilities, they
are told they typically just should estimate it the same as the previous year as it does not
vary much, but actually dropped a million dollars, so as a result from the time the staff
presented on April 1st until today, it did drop. He pointed out a typo. He stated the $18.5
million is the amount not including delinquencies. He stated it should be more around
$17.8 million, so the actual drop is around $260,000 in property taxes from what was
originally estimated in 2009 back in April.
Finance Director Kidney stated the 5% he anticipated in 2008 to what actually came in,
was a drop of around $900,000 from the original projections last year.
Councilmember Sawyer asked if on the Personal Property portion, that is the decrease
where the State changed to bring new business into the area, so the City would have to
bring in “X” number of new commercial to make up for it.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is correct.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 43
Councilmember Sawyer stated that is like giving a tax abatement that did not happen.
Finance Director Kidney stated that is right. He stated that is not taxed obviously as new
businesses do come in and they are buying new equipment.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the theory was that more commercial was going to come.
Chairperson Pflumm asked about miscellaneous on the All Budgeted Funds. He asked if
that is just revenues in general. He stated Miscellaneous is the biggest number outside of
Interest Income and dropped in the 2008E.
Finance Director Kidney stated there are transfers going in and out to each fund a lot of
the time. A lot of that is inter-fund transfers. He stated when the staff presents the
budget next Monday, those will be netted back out, but because they have to budget the
revenue inside of it and expend the transfer going back out, they are grossing up the
revenue for transfers in and grossing up expenditures for transfers out. He stated the
majority of that number is literally transfers from one number to the other under
Chairperson Pflumm asked if it is really not a net revenue decrease of $2 million
Finance Director Kidney replied not under Miscellaneous – no.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if there is a net revenue decrease of $2 million due to
miscellaneous items, so really the net revenue decrease is probably 90% due to interest
Finance Director Kidney asked Chairperson Pflumm if he meant the Net Revenue
Chairperson Pflumm answered yes.
Finance Director Kidney explained that interest income is a lot of this. He stated from
the original 2008 budget to 2008R, the majority is in the sales tax.
Chairperson Pflumm stated those were just projections and he is talking about from
Actual to Revised.
City Manager Gonzales stated those are projections for the rest of 2008.
Chairperson Pflumm stated that is knowledge to date, so most of that is basically interest.
Finance Director Kidney stated for the actual drop in revenue from the prior year would
mostly be interest – that is correct.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 44
Finance Director Kidney presented the Tax Detail which basically details out the tax
portion showing the Revised versus the 2009 budget. He stated most of the property tax
is flat as was just addressed. He stated they are basically seeing in the County and City
tax a 2% for the retail sales portion, both from the City portion of the County side and
also the City sales tax. They are also seeing a flat for the Use Tax from 2008 to 2009
and that is anywhere from an impact of about $1.2 million from what was originally
Finance Director Kidney stated the second group is the County Sales Tax. He stated the
staff broke out Sales and Use Tax for the special school sales tax passed by the County.
He stated the staff anticipates the County Public Safety passing, so they just renamed an
account number to show that break in the 2007 Actual, 2008, and 2008R budgets. He
stated the school tax goes away, but right underneath shows a Public Safety Sales Tax
coming back on and that is a 2% increase that they are anticipating.
Councilmember Straub asked if that is the one coming up on the ballot in August.
Finance Director Kidney answered yes.
Councilmember Straub asked if they would take that out if it does not pass.
Finance Director Kidney answered obviously they would have to take it out.
Councilmember Straub asked Finance Director Kidney if he expects it to pass.
Finance Director Kidney replied he thinks they all hope it passes. He stated the way they
would like to present a budget is with that money included, so they set the maximum
expenditures based on it and if it does not pass they will come back this fall or the early
part of 2009 and revise back down those expenditures to match it.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he would lean the other way, but that is alright.
Finance Director Kidney stated there are the Hotel Occupancy Tax referred to earlier by
City Manager Gonzales and other various taxes. He stated they are anticipating an
overall around a 2% increase which is somewhat of a historical average for those items.
He stated the staff is seeing a little increase in some of the utilities for the Commercial
portion. He stated the expense side got hit with several of those, so again it is a
percentage of total revenue and the City portion would increase slightly.
Chairperson Pflumm asked about the Stormwater Utility, because he thought that was
pretty static. He stated they have a 2006 at $1.6 million, which he knows is not much of
a change, but then there is a revised amount of $1.598 million, $18,000, and wonders
why that particular tax would change.
Finance Director Kidney explained it is based on impervious services. He stated they did
not see as many building permits come in.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 45
Finance Director Kidney stated that was just a quick overview, but reiterated that some of
the major changes was property tax and they are still around the same place they were a
couple weeks ago when they presented sales tax.
Neighborhood Revitalization Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this fund‟s primary revenue sources are the transfer from
the General Fund and sponsors and donations for downtown programs, as well as the
rebate the City gets back from the program. She presented the expenditures as proposed
in 2008E and 2009.
City Manager Gonzales stated when Planning Director Chaffee presented that fund, they
recommended starting to take the 10% that the City was getting back through the rebates
and use that to fund the grant programs, which is a great offset and reduces the amount of
General Fund transfer they might have to make and provides a great reinvestment into the
City Manager Gonzales stated in 2009 they further reduced the contribution towards the
downtown revitalization. She stated the goal has been to try to reduce that over time and
it will probably never go away and hopes it never has to go away.
City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, the grant and interest Buy-Down Program
requires the Council review those annually, so the staff will continue to bring those back
and hopefully continue to be able to support the downtown revitalization efforts, as they
have been very successful. She stated they would certainly love to do a Nieman Road
improvement some day and there is a subcommittee of the Downtown group who meets
and are talking about what they would like to see. She stated it is not in a plan at this
time anywhere, but certainly on people‟s minds as a future project for the City.
City Manager Gonzales presented the forecast fund for the future, showing a continued
reduction hopefully in the General Fund transfer.
Public Safety Equipment Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this is the fund that is a partial mill levy. The City uses
this fund to fund the large equipment in Police and Fire. She stated in 2008 and 2009 the
Fire Department expenditures out of that fund, which Fire Chief Hudson already went
over with the Council, is the truck that they ordered last year and expected delivery. She
stated American LaFrance has declared bankruptcy and there has been a delay, but
believe they are still building or getting ready to build the truck. She stated there is
another one approved by the Council a few weeks ago that should be delivered in eight or
nine months, as it takes a while to build them. She stated that is the increased lease
payment in 2009.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 46
City Manager Gonzales stated there is some vehicle replacement in 2008 and there is the
$35,000 that they hope to leave in those accounts for smaller equipment on an as-needed
basis. She stated this year the Fire Department committees recommend buying AED‟s
with that money to update the technology that has already been approved by the Council.
She stated next year they will look at using that money for bumper gear, which is
probably something they would have funded out of the General Fund in the past, but
fortunately there is some room in this fund to make that happen.
City Manager Gonzales stated the Police Department expenditures from this fund in2008
will be the replacement of regular police vehicles. She stated they have not yet
determined the purpose of the equipment fund (the $35,000) in 2008. She stated in 2009,
as mentioned by Police Chief Morgan, the Police Department significantly reduced their
replacement in order to be able to replace the in-car video system, moving from a VHS
technology to a DVD technology and to also purchase a new narcotic‟s K-9 to replace the
dog that is retiring.
City Manager Gonzales stated hopefully the City can continue to use this fund to replace
Fire and Police vehicles. She stated the City does have a big expenditure looming out
there in the County-wide radio project and are hoping to get some County money. She
stated there are applications and committees meeting to work towards that and it would
be very helpful to Shawnee. She stated if they do not readjust their schedule and do not
get any grant money for the County-wide project, then as seen on the graph, in 2011 the
fund balance will go below the line and the City would either have to stretch out their
replacements or consider a mill increase for that fund.
Special Narcotics Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this is money that comes from drug taxes and is very hard
to predict the revenue in this fund. She stated the staff looked at past years and this fund
averages about $19,000 a year. She stated the money has to be used on drug-related,
police-related activities. She stated Police Chief Morgan mentioned that the Police
Department plans on purchasing some of the cold fired extinguishers and for those who
attended the Lenexa meeting, they saw the presentation on these. She stated the City
staff met with Lenexa and looked into it and thought it was a very good investment. She
stated the staff does not yet have any identified needs for this fund in 2009.
City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, this is a fund that has restrictions on how
they can spend this money. She stated it is not a lot of money, but certainly helpful to
have that fund available. She stated the funding has reduced some because in 2006, the
undercover drug position was eliminated because the Police Department needed to use
that staffing in a different area. She stated they only spend what they received in this
Special Park and Recreation Fund
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 47
City Manager Gonzales stated this is the money that comes from the liquor tax. She
stated it has to be divided into thirds. One-third goes to Parks and Recreation, about
$180,000 per year. She stated the staff has somewhat identified this fund as a fund to be
able to be used to further the Shawnee Town strategic plan, with some other projects that
can be cash funded. She stated the staff is trying to cash fund with their special funds any
projects now, which has been a great thing for the Debt Service Fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated the one new thing in this fund since the Council saw it
earlier in the budget process, is that the staff has spread some things out a little further in
order to get a $97,000 fund balance each year that can be transferred to the Debt Service
Fund to make the debt payment for Pioneer Crossing. She stated the staff is trying to find
every way possible to use these special funds, not necessarily for operations because that
would not really be a wise thing, but to help offset some of the Debt Service Fund and
General Fund expenditures and were able to do that with this fund in 2008 and again in
City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, this will probably be the fund where the
Deffenbaugh contribution will go. She stated they have not met with them yet and
Charlie Wetzler who represents that foundation retired last night from his City attorney
duties and hopefully he will be more free to meet with the staff in next few weeks and
they will get together with him to work out whatever it was that Deffenbaugh wants to
contribute to and in the future, they will hopefully be able to continue to fund the debt
payment for Pioneer Crossing out of this fund. She stated the City pays as they go with
this fund, as it is a cash fund.
Special Alcohol Abuse Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated another third of that liquor tax has to be used for drug
abuse programs by State statute. She stated the City does use this fund and is probably
the one special fund the City uses to fund people, the three people in their D.A.R.E.
officer program, which is about $150,000 in 2008 and $160,000 in 2009. She stated the
City also uses this money which goes to the Drug and Alcohol Council, which is the
agency in Johnson County under the umbrella of UCS that allocates out to agencies. She
stated they do all the due diligence to determine that the agencies are functioning,
handling their programs well, and providing good service. She stated that is a service
that UCS provides to the City and they allocate some of this money to them. It shows a
5% increase in that allocation for 2009.
City Manager Gonzales stated in the future, funding those officers out of this fund, if they
continue doing that, will not continue having enough capacity by 2013, so the City will
have to make other decisions prior to that time.
Park and Recreation Land Use Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this is a fund where the fees come with the building
permits – the park fees. She stated this is generally a very small fund of about $100,000,
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 48
but over the past six years they have allocated the County sales tax to that because the
Council approved a resolution that directed the staff to use that funding for aquatic
facilities and has been used for Soetaert the last three years prior and has been used this
year to cash fund almost the entire east pool which is an amazing thing. She stated it has
been a great help.
City Manager Gonzales stated it shows in 2009 that money not continuing to come to this
fund and she will show the Council where they put that money later in the presentation.
City Manager Gonzales stated there is about $1.9 million left to pay out and finish off the
east pool funding. The Sister City Park will be able to be cash funded and the staff has
plugged in some needed repairs to the lazy river which would normally be an operational
cost that the staff would like to fund with the General Fund, but is an expense they moved
into this fund and stretched some other things out in the future and slowed some things
down in order to fund that out of this fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated in 2011 there is $100,000 identified to begin to discuss a
concept and perhaps a design for a west community center, but the staff does not know
what $100,000 will get them. She stated they also show improvements to the east sand
pit park at $300,000 in 2012. She stated that is on the east side of K-7, the pond/lake that
Holliday Sand and Gravel is giving to the City and the City of Bonner Springs which will
be a shared fishing pond/park. She stated the City will have some improvements to make
once they are out of there.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City only spends what they have and a decrease in
revenue is shown on the chart when the sales tax is no longer in the fund.
Parks and Pipes Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this fund is the one-eighth of a cent for stormwater and
parks. She stated it is divided half and half. She stated in 2008, the parks side funding is
recommended for Quivira Glenn which has been approved. She stated there are the Clear
Creek Trail Phase I and the improvements to West Flanders. She stated those are the
contracts the Council just saw recently. She stated there was not enough of a fund
balance to finance Quivira Glenn all in one year, but they could make it work over a two
year period and not have any additional projects in 2009.
City Manager Gonzales stated on the Pipes side, the SMAC matching projects, are
projects the Council has seen and heard Stormwater Manager Gregory talk about in the
past. She stated these projects have been approved to move forward in 2008 and 2009.
Johnson Drive to 59th West of Flint
Monticello Meadows II
70th and Flint
52nd Terrace and Barton to Nieman
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 49
City Manager Gonzales stated Future Fund Highlights include:
Total resources for life of fund $18,680,519
Revenue stream will end in 2015
City Manager Gonzales stated there has been $9.3 million raised for both Parks and
Stormwater out of this fund. She stated the fund spends what it brings in for the purposes
that are approved.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City has had the columbarium approved, which will be
a big one-time expense and from that point forward the staff does not anticipate any big
projects and simply need to maintain enough reserves to continue mowing the grass,
keeping things looking nice, and repairing things as they need repair. She stated the staff
will probably look again at the fees just to make sure they stay in the market.
Stormwater Utility Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated Stormwater Manager Gregory gave a thorough
presentation a few weeks ago on this fund. She stated they do transfer $309,000 out of
this fund towards curb and gutter inlet repairs as part of the Mill and Overlay Street
Maintenance Program in 2008. She stated in 2009, some of the projects include looking
at doing an application for a grant for an R&D project. She stated the 50 th and Nieman
culvert replacement is a big project scheduled for 2009.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff is recommending buying the street sweeper out of
the Stormwater Utility Fund. She stated the City needs a new street sweeper and it
absolutely meets the criteria for stormwater maintenance and is not something in the past
they ever anticipated buying out of this fund, but is a very appropriate way to use the
money and is how the staff recommends getting it.
City Manager Gonzales stated the ordinance for stormwater utility does require a 5-year
review of the program and will be doing that in 2009. She stated the staff will probably
bring the Council some information in 2009 along with recommendations for the future.
She stated this is a good mechanism saying they are five years into it, how they are doing,
and if they are accomplishing what they want to accomplish or if there is any change in
direction and if the fees are funding the program adequately. She stated they will
continue to use that fund to implement the mandated NPDES standards.
Public Safety Sales Tax Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this is the sales tax approved by the voters for construction
of the Justice Center and Fire Station No. 72. She stated they have been able to cash fund
some of the expenses and save the cost of debt on those. She stated the City began the
bond payments in 2008. That fund will only be used for bond payments. She stated if
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 50
sales tax does not get better then at some point the green line on the chart will drop below
the line, but they hope that it takes an upward turn.
Special Highway Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated this is the fund with the big change. She stated when they
started the budget process, the City was at 11% reserves and in order to get to 35%
reserves, which is the City‟s goal, they needed $6.6 million. She stated it is very hard to
find $6.6 million.
City Manager Gonzales stated in 2009 the City will not do a Mill and Overlay Program.
She stated they will take the $1.7 gas tax money, which by law has to be spent on street
and road improvements, and transfer it to the Debt Service Fund to help pay debt on the
many street and road capital projects the City has and has debt on. She stated the City
still has some money in this fund, the transfer from the Stormwater Utility, and that work
would still be done in 2009 along with some miscellaneous maintenance money.
City Manager Gonzales stated due to the drop in the revenues talked about many times by
Finance Director Kidney, the recommendation is to use that gas tax for essentially
operations, because they have made the transfer into the Debt Service Fund and then
transfer 1.4 mills from the Debt Service Fund to the General Fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated in 2008 the Special Highway Budget was $1,083,000 for
drainage and curbs and $1,195,000 for mill and overlay. She reminded the Council that
they eliminated the $1 million transfer in 2008, so they reduced the projects and cut the B
List things. She stated in 2009, the staff still recommends the $339,000 transfer from the
Stormwater Utility and transferring the entire $1,748,500 into the Debt Service Fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated they will also see some General Fund Savings from not
doing a mill and overlay in 2009. She stated they will not have to hire the part-time
inspectors which will save them some in the General Fund payroll. She stated the City
can not eliminate a program like that forever, so it is a Band-Aid fix at this time, but not
the only fix. She stated it is the biggest service level decrease and the thing that scares
her the most, is that it is something the public does not see immediately and over time if
they do not repair the streets, they start looking bad and the whole appearance of the
community diminishes. She stated she does want to let that happen is knows the Council
does not either, so when this budget is over, it is really not over, because they have to
address this issue and figure out how to have a street maintenance program with a
funding source that will fund the program.
Chairperson Pflumm asked about the white topping program they were doing at the
stoplights, where they milled up and put down asphalt.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated with this year‟s program, there were six or
seven locations where during the past two winters there has been deterioration of
concrete in quite a bit of the surface areas. He stated they bid it two ways; one just to
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 51
repair the damaged concreted and secondly, to mill it all out and put in a more stable type
of asphalt. He stated what they are seeing with results around the area is that it does a
push and shove, like they have had problems 10 years ago with asphalt areas at
intersections. He stated it was bid both ways the cheapest way was to mill out all of it,
rather than just doing the spot patches in some locations. If it was just a small area, it
was still more economical to just do the repair.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated in some areas throughout town, they are just
repairing a few spots within those intersections and at several locations have taken them
Chairperson Pflumm asked if the staff looked at concrete sealers to get a little more life
out of them.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied they have sealed those in the past on occasion,
but not every year. He stated they attempt to do 10-15% each year and is not sure they
will be able to get to it this year.
Councilmember Sawyer stated some of the intersections, for instance Quivira Road at
Johnson Drive was not put in all that long ago. He stated the ones that have been dug
out seem to be the newer concrete.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated he does not have offhand the age of the various
locations where they did the repairs this year. He stated the oldest they have had is only
about 11 to 12 years old, because they did the first one about 12 years ago in 1996/1997.
There has been a few each year over the past 10 years. He does not have the details on
that with him this evening, but it is possible about that particular intersection.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated they do strength testing on the concrete as they
put it down, but that still does not guarantee that durability of the surface will be there
when they use the salts they use for snow removal activities on ice control, especially at
intersections and freeze/thaw cycles over the past few years which make a big difference
in road surfaces holding up.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is sure the staff has looked at it, but Public Works
Director Freyermuth mentioned the salt that deteriorates the concrete quicker. She stated
someone brought to her attention back around Christmastime that there is a lot of new
salt-type product that is supposed to be specifically designed, so it is not obviously sale
per se, but designed to achieve the same results as far as keeping it from being slick and
melting snow, but does not have whatever it is that salt has that destroys the concrete.
She stated this material is more expensive rather than just buying salt, but is supposed to
have significantly less impact on the surfaces, so there may not be quite a much need to
overlay. She asked if that is something being discussed in the industry.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes. He stated the staff has looked into
some and probably need to do more because there are new products coming out all the
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 52
time. He stated last year a form of beet juice was being tested in Missouri. He is not sure
of the exact details on its success, but that was one item they looked into. He stated the
City has used some in the past.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks she remembers someone from the NLC out in
Reno that had a couple of places talking about it. She stated for some reason brine, the
stuff pickles come in, was something they were working on. She stated she knows this
year the City has made a number of cuts in things that would really have good long term
savings, such as the stoplight purchases instead of leasing, etcetera, so it is not an option
at this time, but as they start looking into the next year if that is something that is a viable
option, her understanding is not only to have that benefit and with the mill and overlay
stretching maybe it is even better to make sure that while they are stretching it, it is in as
good of shape as possible.
Councilmember Kuhn stated secondly, they were also talking about a number of those
products maybe being more environmentally friendly instead of just going back into the
City Manager Gonzales presented the Special Highway Fund forecast. She stated it looks
somewhat different because of the changes being recommended this year. She stated she
hopes they can get back to a mill and overlay program with this source of funding and
hopefully other sources. She stated as Public Works Director Freyermuth talked about
the program, he mentioned the gas tax is not enough in the past to fund to the goals. She
stated in the past, the City has had the transfer from the General Fund and is obviously
not possible this year, but is an area they are going to have to address.
Debt Service Fund
City Manager Gonzales stated the changes include the transfer from the Special Highway
Fund. She stated it includes the transfer in 2008 and in 2009 from the Park and Land Use
Fund from Pioneer Crossing. She stated they have stopped the transfer from the General
Fund. She stated they had a transfer from the General Fund into the Debt Service Fund in
the past. Another reduction the staff made to the General Fund was to eliminate that half
a million dollars.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff recommends transferring the $1.7 million into the
Debt Service Fund in 2009 and the Land Use Fund transfer. She stated that gave them a
net increase in the Debt Service Fund, just looking at those three sources, of $942,000
which gave them some room in fund balance in 2009 to transfer 1.4 mills, which is about
$1 million, into the General Fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated the forecast also represents some savings and the staff
hopes to bring a refinancing issue to the Council soon of about $100,000 that Finance
Director Kidney has been working with Springsted on and obviously the CIP has not yet
been approved. She stated the staff will bring forward to the Council a CIP in September,
one that will work with the adopted budget.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 53
City Manager Gonzales stated the numbers are probably a little different than those the
Council saw earlier, because the staff has been working on them and with them as they
have done the budget, but includes the projects that are out there in the years they
anticipate bonding them and not the years they anticipate building them. She stated that
is an illustration of what creates the annual debt payment.
City Manager Gonzales presented the Debt Service Fund graph. She stated it is okay in
the short term, but shudders to think what would have happened if it did not have the
three mills they put in it two years ago. She stated they had this discussion at that time.
Councilmember Distler stated she was emailed a question today that she forgot about
earlier, but on Monticello Road the person wants to know if the study of the pipeline is
part of that total in the project for that fund, or does it come out of another fund.
City Manager Gonzales replied at this point all the costs related to the Monticello Road
project would be included in a project fund; all the City costs related to that project. She
stated this is the budgeted amount at this point. She stated it is the amount the City
would bond and not necessarily the full amounts of the project, because if there is CARS
funding, or CMAC funding, those would be in addition to these numbers, so this is just
the amount of the projects the City would debt finance. She stated these are numbers that
the staff has been playing with. She stated one thing they are looking at, like with
Monticello North, are some more cost effective solutions. She stated right now there is
$5.4 million in here and maybe by September when they bring it before the Council, the
staff will have some answers and can reduce that amount, but this is the current draft of
the projects out there.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks last year the State approved for the 2009 year
LAVTR (Local Ad Valorem Tax Reduction) being put back in. She knows they have not
mentioned by any stretch of the imagination how that is planning to be broke down or
allocations to specific cities, so if they assume they get the Good Fairy to give them some
LAVTR money this year, then where would it go.
Finance Director Kidney stated it is actually local ad valorem tax reduction, so they
allocate it to the funds that there is a property tax and theoretically lower the property tax.
City Manager Gonzales stated it would go to any of the funds that had property tax.
Councilmember Kuhn stated it is between each one of them, so every one that has a mill
attached to it would go and break it down in that proportion.
Finance Director Kidney stated he will say that in the past, LAVTR has been distributed
to each of the cities. He thinks it was something around $50 million that was distributed.
He stated the allocation they are talking about is around $6-7 million and if the City did
receive it, it would be around $20,000 to maybe $50,000, but it is hard to say because he
has talked to his surrounding peers and no one is putting it in their budget.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 54
Councilmember Kuhn stated the League of Kansas Municipalities even said they should
not count on it, allocate it, or plan for it and she is not, but was just curious as to where it
might fall if it does come through.
City Manager Gonzales stated the history the Council has seen before of actuals and fund
balances moving forward, as well as reserves the City has had in the past and some
significant increases in the past in revenue and expenditures, along with some decreases
seeing as revenues have gotten flat and things have not gotten cheaper, obviously that is
why the City has been spending more of their reserves and pushing that level down.
City Manager Gonzales stated last year the staff targeted 35% as what they wanted to
have as reserves. She stated the staff wanted to show Moody‟s that they were not going
to continue the trend of spending more than they were able to afford and spending down
their reserves and setting the goal at 35% and budgeted to it.
City Manager Gonzales presented the General Fund Reserves dated May 6, 2008. She
noted the $6.9 million they needed at that point to get there. She stated this included
initial department budgets as they came in. She stated the staff plugged them in and is
where they were at, at that point.
City Manager Gonzales presented the budget the staff is at today and the one she
recommends. She stated it does not have a 35% reserve. She stated they just could not
figure out how to get there without making some serious decisions. She stated Finance
Director Kidney has talked with Springsted, the City‟s financial advisor, and if many of
them would talk to their peers 30% is actually a high level of reserves. She stated she
does not think anyone is concerned that there is not enough reserves, but have been
concerned in the pattern, as the staff has been concerned, of continually spending down
their reserves. She stated this continues that pattern a little.
City Manager Gonzales stated she thinks the important thing in the future will be to have
a plan and have things they can say of how they plan on building it back up, what they
are cutting out, and how they are going to enhance revenues. She stated the budget she is
recommending is 30%. She stated it is a 3% less budget. She stated looking at actual
expenditures in 2007 of $30.9 million it is less than actual expenditures of 2007. She
stated they can see the substantial changes of 2008 to 2008E. Those are the changes the
staff has made over the past few weeks.
City Manager Gonzales explained how they got there, and most the Council has heard
this before, but one thing was the Employee Benefit Fund and the staff thought they
might be able to gain some fund balance by moving it in there. She stated they felt like
from an accounting and municipal budgeting standpoint, it was a good idea to merge that
so when they begin to look at programs, they can truly identify the costs of the programs
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 55
City Manager Gonzales stated in reality what happened, is that it was almost a wash and
they actually probably lost a little in terms of reserves, because as a percent of revenue, it
did not help the General Fund. She still thinks it is a good thing to do and this is as good
a year as any to do it. She stated the staff is going to start looking at their programs long
and hard and to have these numbers combined so they can better accurately calculate
program costs is, she believes, a good thing.
City Manager Gonzales stated other things in the 2008/09 budget include:
Combines the Employee Benefit Fund with the General Fund
Eliminates General Fund transfer to Debt Service
Moves some expenditures out of the General Fund into special funds when they
fit with the purpose of the fund, including debt payment for Pioneer Crossing;
street sweeper purchase, pool repairs, Shawnee Town Strategic Plan design
Continues 9 vacant positions through 2008
o 3 Firefighters
o Police Officer
o Police Mechanic
o Public Works Maintenance Worker
o Assistant to the City Manager
o Traffic Sign Technician
o Public Works Technician II
City Manager Gonzales stated these positions are budgeted in 2009 and the staff will
be watching things very closely. Depending on how things look, they will determine
if they will fill these positions or not in 2009. The staff will work in the meantime to
figure out who can make up the work for these positions.
Eliminates 1 Building Inspector position
City Manager Gonzales stated they all know permits are down and have
reallocated that position into a Public Works Department vacant engineering
position and has worked out very well.
Incorporate enforcement of stormwater management requirements into remaining
Building Inspectors‟ workload to help mitigate having to hire additional staff for
City Manager Gonzales stated they talked about this, this past spring that require
quite a bit of additional enforcement and will do some training with the current
building inspectors and have them do that so they do not have to hire any
additional staff to take on that responsibility.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 56
Reduces the City‟s budgeted increase for employee compensation from 3.9% to
Includes no market increases in the 2008 or 2009 budget for employees
Significantly defers IT replacements
o Significantly reduced remaining 2008 Equipment Replacement Program
o Eliminated 2009 Equipment Replacement Program
o Significantly reduced 2009 Technical Training Program for all
o Cancelled some and reduced other software/development support
programs – approximately 20%
o Reduced Police Digital Video System Development support
o Changed effective date to 2009 for City Hall and Public Works Phone
System for conversion to Everest
Reduces services provided through contractual and commodity line items in
o No new holiday decorations/banners
o Cut Bridge Repair Program in half
o Reduced travel budgets by 5%
o Eliminated holiday party
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff went through the line items, what she calls
the 2,000‟s and 3,000‟s – the stuff they can track for and buy. She stated the staff
reduced those things significantly and the above four bullets are just some
examples of things that have been reduced. She stated these things impact service
and impact what the City is providing. She stated all that was done with an
increase in fuel cost, which was substantial as they have talked about in the past.
Eliminates the 2008 Mill and Overlay transfer from the General Fund; thus
eliminating 1/3rd of the program in 2008.
Provides for no Mill and Overlay/Curb and Sidewalk Program in 2009 or 2010.
City Manager Gonzales stated she hopes to have some sort of plan by 2010 that
will provide some relief to that program.
Transfers revenue from Gas Tax ($1,748,500) to the Debt Service Fund (to make
up for lost GF transfer; and to allow 1.4 mills to be moved to the General Fund).
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 57
Places the entire projected revenue from the proposed County-wide Sales Tax in
the General Fund (if it doesn’t pass, we will have to make significant cuts before
the end of the year).
City Manager Gonzales presented the General Fund Forecast, which includes the
sales tax going forward and the graph shows that helps and is actually nice to see the
revenue help the fund balance stay closer to where they would like. She cautioned
the Council that the expenditures do not include any new staff and only include a
basic growth factor.
City Manager Gonzales stated in order to make any significant impact in the future,
assuming understand and agree with how they go to where they are today, they have
to either decrease service levels, cut real programs, cancel some project, or increase
revenues – any or all parts of any of those things.
City Manager Gonzales offered some examples of things the staff has discussed and
stressed these are just examples. She stated she does not the headlines in the
newspaper to read that she recommends getting rid of the City‟s crossing guard
program, because that is not what she is doing, but is merely presenting examples of
thing that as they look at what is left in the General Fund what they could really quit
doing. She stated as was talked about earlier this evening, none of them want to quit
doing anything as they take great pride in what they do and knows the community
appreciates the service level provided by the City and does not want to see decreases.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff talked about a different way to do the
CityLine and have actually done more work on that and thinks they could partner
with the Shawnee Dispatch to do a CityLine product that would come out with the
newspaper. That would save postage and if they did that avenue, they would have to
do some advertising along with it, but that is a philosophical thing. She stated these
are not cuts that are currently in the budget, but are for future contemplation.
City Manager Gonzales stated the City has a wonderful snow removal program, but
the staff talked about reducing the level of service they provide. She stated the
$140,000 is a hard number to get a hold of, but is just if they quit doing residential
and can not imagine them going that far, but to give the Council a concept of what
they could save if they did less.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if that number is per removal.
City Manager Gonzales replied that is an annual number – ballpark.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if it pretty much overtime.
City Manager Gonzales stated it consists of overtime, gas, and salt.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 58
Chairperson Pflumm asked about the gasoline as he has not seen the numbers. He
asked City Manager Gonzales to tabulate what the City spent on gas in 2006, 2007,
City Manager Gonzales stated she can get those numbers to Chairperson Pflumm.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he asked the question at the last meeting, as the City
had 18 snows last winter and wonders what it cost the City – not to the dollar, but
when someone says the crews have to go out and push snow, what is the City
spending that night – roughly.
Public Works Director Freyermuth replied the only numbers he has to work with are
from 2007. He stated in 2007 there was about 12 storms at an average cost of around
$50,000 per storm and came to around $600,000 for the budget year.
Councilmember Sawyer asked when Public Works Director Freyermuth, or whoever,
decides to pull the switch they are popping the City for $50,000.
Public Works Director Freyermuth answered yes, on each major event and is an
average. He stated there is roughly a 35-hour period from the start of a storm to
finish cleaning up everything.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he actually thought it would cost more.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated some of it is for overtime, but that is all the
cost and some of that figure is regular time.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he was merely asking for the number of dollars spent
Councilmember Straub stated he is curious as to what the $140,000 does, but
unfortunately the weather people are not very good because they forecast a 12 inch
snow and the City goes out and starts pouring salt and then the City ends up not
getting anything or very little. He stated the City has to be prepared though and he
sees a lot of the trucks going out before the snow even starts.
City Manager Gonzales stated it would be great to have a sure weather predictor.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the staff uses the weather forecast to at least
gear up and have employees available, since the City is not a 24 hour operation. He
stated it adjusts people to be ready when the snow hits and they can not tell exactly
when it does. He stated the City has not done a lot of anti-icings which is what they
refer to when they put material down before anything even starts. He stated he knows
a lot of highway departments around Missouri and Kansas do, but Shawnee has not
gone to that over the years. He stated they have had a program from 25 years ago that
reacts to when it gets slick.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 59
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated during regular daytime hours, the
employees are already here from 7:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. which is the normal shift. He
stated if the storm starts during that time, the crews are usually out pretty close to the
time the snow starts hitting the ground and freezing. He stated if it is a call-in, they
are 30 to 40 minutes after it starts building up on the roads, because the City waits
until it actually gets slick to call in the guys and start the operation. He stated it
varies from time to time, but there is one anti-icing vehicle.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated the City bought an anti-icing vehicle about
two years ago to do what is referred to as anti-icing where they would actually go out
three or four hours, based on the forecast and it could be six hours or 30 minutes
ahead of the snow starting and put down a brine solution on some roads. He stated it
is a very limited amount, but the City does have one vehicle and use it on Shawnee
Mission Parkway, bridges, and the areas that freeze first.
Councilmember Straub asked Public Works Director Freyermuth if they are basically
dropping the program cost 20% or close to, reducing $140,000 from the $600,000.
He asked what that entails; does the City then not go out on all snows.
City Manager Gonzales stated she would clarify that this list is not things she
recommends at this time, but things, at the direction of the Council if there are any
they are particularly interested in that the City could live with and if the Council
would like for staff to bring them back more information, that they would bring to
committee meetings over the next few months to look at further.
Public Works Director Freyermuth stated that $140,000 number represents stopping
the efforts when they finished primary streets that they work on through the storm.
He stated instead of the remainder, about an average 12 hours it take to go through all
the residents which they do second, after the storm stops and the snow or ice stops
building up on the pavement, that is when they finish up their primary routes and
move into residential sections and that would mean not doing that last phase. He
stated it is the equivalent of about $150,000.
Councilmember Kuhn asked, just as a policy question for the staffing, that Public
Works Director Freyermuth just said that generally the employees are scheduled from
7:00 a.m. to 3:30 p.m., which is an 8 ½ hour shift with a half hour for lunch. She
stated one of the things that was an industry discussion as far as cost cutting,
obviously all industries are right now, is looking at the overtime that is caused in
those small incremental portions that really add up. She stated the City has a larger
number of employees that are hourly and it becomes a bigger deal.
Councilmember Kuhn stated one of the suggestions had been not scheduling people
for a full 8 hour shift in areas where there tends to be high overtime, not referring to
snow removal or officers because she thinks those are a little different needs based
overtime, but for example at her bank they had great success scheduling instead of a
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 60
40 hour week, a 39 hour week knowing that the average employee was actually
ending up with about 37 minutes of overtime each week, so by just adjusting their
shift time by 15 minutes each day on either side, they were still able to achieve the
coverage they needed to maintain service level, but actually able to decrease a pretty
significant amount of cost just on that 37 minutes across the board going away and
not being overtime. She stated the employees really did not see an impact to what
their expected salary was at 40 hours.
City Manager Gonzales stated she is sure there are things they could look at with the
overtime. She stated they do try to do a lot of flex time and if they know someone is
going to work on a weekend, they can then have Monday and Tuesday off, so they are
just getting in their 40 hours later in the week. She stated they try to do a lot of that
type of thing and knows the Police Department has probably done as much analysis
as anyone and made some pretty significant cuts in their overtime budget for 2009,
but is sure there are other things the staff could look at.
Councilmember Kuhn stated it was just a small thing that her company did that ended
up having a pretty decent impact. She stated she does not know how all the City
departments are scheduled, nor would she in any way assume she is the person who
should make those decisions, but it was just something they laughed at when it came
out, but it has made thousands of dollars of an impact to her budget.
City Manager Gonzales stated she is not going to go through all the examples one by
one, but they are just things they have talked about at staff level and not things they
have yet plugged into the budget, but things that in the future as they have to bring
cuts forward to the Council, her one key point just at looking at these examples, it
takes a lot of them to get to a million dollars.
Councilmember Straub stated he brought up the travel budget in the past and asked if
the staff looked at cutting travel across the board.
City Manager Gonzales stated the staff did a 5% reduction in their training travel
budget. She stated reducing the travel budget by 80%, it came to around $148,000.
She stated that would be every department across the board. She stated they just did
that again with a round number of a percent. She stated her theory in trying to come
up with a quick number is that that 20% would be mandated as there is some training
the City has to do by law with the Public Works Department employees.
Councilmember Straub stated the City Council spends $40,000 to $45,000 per year,
so City Manager Gonzales is saying they would cut that by 80% and if it is was
$40,000, they would only be doing $16,000 in total travel. He stated the majority of
travel is the City Council.
City Manager Gonzales stated proportionately because the rest of the Council‟s
budget is so small, that probably is one of the larger items in their budget. He stated
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 61
because the Police Department‟s budget is much larger, proportionately it is much
Councilmember Straub stated if the Council saved 25% of the $148,000 that is a big
City Manager Gonzales responded it is certainly a portion.
City Manager Gonzales stated the crossing guard contract number at $170,000 is
actually the total amount for that program. She stated one of the things they have
talked about doing is raising their threshold when they put a crossing guard on the
corner. She stated the City has a policy on that, that the Council has looked at in the
past and there are certain numbers of kids.
City Manager Gonzales stated the second way of making significant impact which
she has talked about again and again, but has not given the Council a lot of substance
and where they start talking about people and employees. She stated they started
looking at programs to cut and it is really where they really start impacting the public
in terms of very direct services that have to go to make any kind of impact dollar-
wise. She stated those are the programs that were shown at the beginning of tonight‟s
presentation – the four slides of all the things the different departments do and is what
the staff will begin to define and look at from a staff standpoint of what things they
could live with, bringing forward to the Council as a possibility.
City Manager Gonzales asked the Council to let the staff know if there is anything on
that list that they would like to look at in the future.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he has not seen anything on benefits, because they are
talking about cutting people when they could probably do it by cutting benefits. He
stated everyone has to give a little bit as opposed to someone just giving up their
whole job. He stated they should look at everything and so far they have not seen
anything on employee benefits which is probably one of the City‟s biggest
City Manager Gonzales stated it is a large expenditure for the City and merging those
two funds will help them look at that also and the staff has looked at some things in-
house. She stated CAPERS and KP&F – the mandated percent went up and the City
does not have control over that, but there are things within that fund that the City does
have control over and will be things they continue to look at.
City Manager Gonzales continued with projects. She stated this list of projects were
on the previous list. She stated they have budget impact in the annual debt payment.
She stated none of these are projects any of them would like to see go away, but as
they work through the CIP they may have some recommendation for the Council.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 62
Chairperson Pflumm asked if there are any parks that have any capital parks
improvements that take money out of the General Fund or have debt service.
City Manager Gonzales replied she believes they are still paying debt on the Soetaert
Aquatic improvements and have about two more years on the Civic Centre.
Chairperson Pflumm asked about bringing forward some of the parks they have now
and reduce their debt service or postponing some of those.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they can not use that money.
Chairperson Pflumm stated it is for parks.
City Manager Gonzales stated all the parks in the future are pay-as-you-go.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he understands that, but the City is paying for parks that
are probably 15 years old.
City Manager Gonzales stated it is just those two areas – whenever they did the
Soetaert improvements in 2002 and then the Civic Centre which was a 15 year bond,
as well as Stump Park.
Chairperson Pflumm stated he would like to investigate that further. He stated if they
take dollars that the City brings in from Parks and Pipes, or whatever, instead of
doing a project this year like the Water Tower Park that is $300,000 where they could
reduce the debt service which will have an impact on the General Fund.
City Manager Gonzales stated that is right.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they did that with the Mill and Overlay Program, but did
not do it with anything associated with parks.
City Manager Gonzales stated they stretched out the park schedule to get the $97,000
for the Pioneer Crossing debt payment, so that is a transfer from the Park Fund and
not from the General Fund, because there is no General Fund money going toward
capital projects. She stated they are using that special fund to make the debt payment
for Pioneer Crossing. She stated it would be a similar thing and in order to do that at
this point, the projects that have yet to be improved would be the Shawnee Town
things for 2008/09 and if the Council did not want to do those projects and use that
money for debt.
Chairperson Pflumm stated even if projects have been approved, they can still go
back if they have not yet gone out for contract.
City Manager Gonzales stated they actually have gone out for contract, like on the
Water Tower Park which were all approved several weeks ago. She stated the only
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 63
things on the list that have yet to engage a contract would be the Shawnee Town
Chairperson Pflumm stated he thinks they should look at everything.
City Manager Gonzales stated they did. She stated her recommendation was to use
some of that to get the debt payment and use some of the rest of it to continue with
the Shawnee Town strategic plan and to cash fund the east pool. She stated that is the
big bulk of the Sales Tax money.
City Manager Gonzales stated obviously the fourth option is to increase that capacity
by increasing revenue. She stated they have different tools available to them –
limited tools. She stated the Franchise Fee is one they have discussed at past
meetings and one she plans on bringing back to the Council in a few months with a
further more comprehensive analysis.
City Manager Gonzales stated if they think about the fiscal capacity of every other
city around Shawnee, they all include that Franchise Fee revenue. She stated
Shawnee is trying to provide the same services without that source of revenue. She
stated she believes it is something the Council needs to talk about.
Councilmember Kuhn referred back to something Chairperson Pflumm just talked
about and is not advocating and just asking if it works or not, but obviously one of the
largest expenditures today which is coming out of the Park and Recreation Land Use
budget, so she does not think there is another option to do anything else with it, but is
the cash funding of the east aquatic center. She stated she knows it is only $1.9
million and some change, but wondered if it is worth looking at saying they could
structure that over five or seven years and have smaller debt payments on it and have
additional funds that maybe the City can shift and find.
Councilmember Goode stated he thought about that too.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she knows the Council had given directive for the last
number of years and thinks it goes back to why, partially, they are in the position they
are today. She stated it is like what they talked about with home builder‟s things, in
that they can not just come in and not raise anything and not raise anything forever
and then expect people to absorb a big increase. She stated they did not raise it and
not only did they not raise it, they lowered it and no one every found another way to
help increase the revenues they needed as costs just kept going up even to provide the
same level of service. She stated now they are in a position to determine if they need
to rethink some of it and people who are in 15 year mortgages are moving somewhat
back to 30 years on some, just because sometimes people can‟t do it.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not know that is the right one because she
knows that has a specific statute attached to what they could and could not use it for.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 64
Finance Director Kidney stated to answer Councilmember Kuhn‟s question, that fund
is a fund that has $100,000 on a good year right now. He stated that is based on
building permits, so it probably would not be the revenue source they would want to
use to debt fund $1.9 million.
Finance Director Kidney stated the overall picture is that the debt payments for the
City‟s park projects if they went back to the four projects, is around $700,000 a year.
He stated there is a year or may be a two year, if they got rid of all the park projects,
hit and miss. He stated it is $700,000 now, but would take a couple years to get back
up to $700,000 and there really is not a lot of capacity on the special park funds. He
stated the City has the Park and Pipes Fund expiring in 2015, so that is one they might
be able to get one year‟s worth of payment out of that fund between now and 2015,
given that they have already had expenses they have already incurred on others.
Finance Director Kidney stated he thinks anything is a good idea to come back and
take a look at all these, leveraging as much as possible. He stated originally he took
the $700,000 annual payments and went into the special park funds and was eager to
see how much he could get out of them, but quite honestly it did not take long to
realize they could not do that for more than possibly a year and a half or two years at
the full $700,000, so he backed off. He looked at what has the least amount of impact
on projects that have already been started and it was that $100,000 portion of Pioneer
Finance Director Kidney stated even the Civic Centre portion was around $26,000.
He stated he really struggled with trying to get that in there, so ultimately he took
those three years worth of payments out, but can always go back and look at them.
He stated when it really comes down to things, there is a not a ton of capacity in these
park funds. He thinks they are leveraging them very well in that they are not issuing
debt in the future.
Finance Director Kidney thinks with that $1.9 million, they could probably legally go
back and even do more than that. He stated it was always planning to come out of a
debt service fund where there is a property tax, but that is not really a good option for
the City at this time. He stated these revenue fees, based on one-time building
permits are where they have gotten into trouble in the past – using these types of one-
time improvements for long term debt. He stated that is a lot of the reason why they
are in the position they are today and the Excise Tax is a good example. He stated
hopefully he answered Councilmember Kuhn‟s question, but at the same time he
thinks it is good to go back and throw everything out there to look at what different
types of restructuring they can do.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she would go back to Chairperson Pflumm‟s question
and it sounded like there is a lot of parks stuff out there and what they can cut. She
stated they have not gotten to any expenditure yet, so if they have not gotten there
they could cut it out and move it somewhere else. She stated they have a 2008 budget
under Parks and Pipes, but those are in 2008 and ones the City has already contracted,
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 65
spent money, and had things done. She stated those are just bills they just know are
coming, for example, Quivira Glenn at $250,000 and West Flanders at $206,000.
Chairperson Pflumm asked if they have let every one of those projects to contractors
Parks and Recreation Director Holman replied they start tomorrow.
Chairperson Pflumm asked about every single project they have on the books for
Councilmember Kuhn stated there are three; Quivira Glenn, Clear Creek Phase I, and
West Flanders. She stated those are the three that were included in the parks and
Pipes Fund budget. She stated Clear Creek comes with a grant, so if the City does not
spend $200,000 they lose $800,000 so that obviously does not work. She stated they
have already let Quivira Glenn, so they can‟t do anything with that one. She asked
about West Flanders.
Parks and Recreation Director Holman stated that project is already let.
Councilmember Kuhn stated there is then no money in any of those three projects, so
that defeats being able to shift that.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they could have a change order.
Councilmember Kuhn asked Chairperson Pflumm if they should just throw away
what has already been spent on those three projects, because she knows they have
already spent engineering money on at least two of them.
Chairperson Pflumm stated that is never thrown away.
Councilmember Sandifer stated it takes the Council to do something like that.
Chairperson Pflumm thanked Councilmember Sandifer for reminding them and stated
they are just bringing up things for the Council to consider.
City Manager Gonzales stated they would have to cancel the contract and she is not
sure about the provisions in those contracts – for Water Tower Park and Quivira
Chairperson Pflumm stated it is a scope change. He stated if they started tomorrow,
there could be a scope change and it is not a major impact on any loss.
City Manager Gonzales stated she is not sure of the contract provisions and would
have to look at those things to consider.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 66
Chairperson Pflumm stated they need to investigate those things relatively quickly, if
they have to look at what they have to cut.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she does not think it makes any sense whatsoever to
consider Clear Creek Phase I, because of obviously the huge amounts involved with
it. She stated they have already let Quivira Glenn and West Flanders. She asked if
Quivira Glenn has been on the books for 15 years.
Chairperson Pflumm answered yes.
City Manager Gonzales stated Quivira Glenn has been on the books for a long time,
along with Water Tower Park. She stated both of those languished a long time just
because the City did not have the staff to get at them.
Chairperson Pflumm stated Water Tower Park was not that long ago, because the
water tower was just taken down. He stated he can understand Quivira Glenn,
because it has been so long. He asked if Water Tower is around $300,000.
City Manager Gonzales replied it is $308,000.
Councilmember Straub asked if they have already been contracted.
City Manager Gonzales stated Sarai has already been contracted for that project.
Councilmember Straub asked about doing a scope change and just putting down sod
and putting in a couple of trees and not all the bells and whistles that were originally
planned for this park.
Chairperson Pflumm stated maybe they do not have to do that one and should only do
four. He stated they are not milling and overlaying streets.
Councilmember Straub stated they are not hiring firemen or police officers –
everything is on the table.
City Manager Gonzales concurred.
Councilmember Kuhn stated obviously is one of the largest advocates for Parks and
Recreation, because she thinks that that probably way more than the Mill and
Overlay, no offense to the Public Works Department, is seen every single day by their
constituents and is appreciated and will be impacted incredibly if they decide to take
it away. She stated her greater concern is not the budget they are presenting tonight
and thinks where they are at with that, while it is in no way an appealing picture, is a
picture that the staff has done the very best job of making use of their resources and
making it work.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 67
Councilmember Kuhn stated she is terrified that the County justice tax is not going to
pass because when that happens, those programs they looked at go and there is
nothing that they can not look at as far as trying to cut it. She stated she feels very
justified sitting here being a person who says it, because she is a person who put her
neck out on the line years ago and said the City can not afford what they are doing
and said they had to reduce revenues at that tax base. She stated she thinks she is in a
very reasonable position today to say, „look the City has cut, cut, cut and increased
revenues to the best of their ability to make those decisions.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks everything is on the table and thinks it is an
unfair thing having discussed it that they do not look at whether or not they have to
make cuts that will hurt really badly, but the other side of things is that they need to
look at whether or not they have to look at decisions that hurt really bad the other
way. She stated Shawnee is the only city that does not have the Franchise Tax. She
stated had they been aware enough in the past to make a decision of what the long
term future of their city could be, they would have implemented it at a time when
maybe their constituents would not be in such a financial crisis a they are today, so it
would not be, as in an email sent to her, a question of do they not understand their
budgetary needs and how increasing a franchise tax now is terrible for them.
Councilmember Kuhn stated if the City had done this years ago when they had the
opportunity, not only would they have a surplus of cash to accomplish these things,
but their constituents would have been able to budget it for a time they were not in a
Chairperson Pflumm stated if they get money, they spend it.
Councilmember Goode asked about the other cities that get the Franchise Tax.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks all the cities are having economic issues right
City Manager Gonzales stated there is always more service to provide and things are
Chairperson Pflumm concurred.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks when they look at all the other cities and
everyone is having budget concerns, but they do not have the same trouble as
Councilmember Goode stated not with the cities he has talked to, because if franchise
was the savior of all things Shawnee would not be a bit better off than the other cities.
Councilmember Kuhn stated she thinks that is exactly it; Shawnee would not be a bit
better off than the other cities, but would not be worse off which is what they are right
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 68
now. She stated if they look at the other cities‟ proposed budgets that they all have
been able to read and see, they will see that none of them are proposing taking an
entire year off of their mill and overlay program. She stated the other cities are not
losing three firemen that they have tried to get for staffing and will see that a number
of the cities are actually increasing their budget significantly more than what they are
and she is not advocating that is the right answer, simply saying there are no sacred
Councilmember Kuhn stated the Council can not just assume that they can cut
everything down and have to adjust both of them; both revenues and expenditures and
she thinks some of them on the Council have been willing to try to do that and some
of them have been unwilling to look at both sides of the coin and something which
she thinks is unreasonable and incredibly unfair, and a very bad representation of
what this city needs.
Chairperson Pflumm stated they should have looked at not letting those contracts two
weeks ago until they were done with tonight‟s meeting or the meeting two weeks
Councilmember Sawyer stated everyone is sitting around here scared to death that the
tax is not going to pass on August 5th, but no one has a magic crystal ball as to
whether or not it is going to pass. He stated it is not a tax that is going to increase
anyone‟s load and they are paying it today. He stated if they decide to approve it,
they approve it.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the way he understands what City Manager Gonzales
is presenting tonight, is things that the Council will have to look at if it does not pass.
He stated if he sat here and just listened to this group here tonight, one might think
they were going to be doom and gloom forever. He stated yes, it is going to be tight
this year and tight next year.
Councilmember Sawyer stated the statement was made earlier that no other city cut
their mill and overlay program, but Overland Park does not do mill and overlay but
every 27 years, so there are differences in what Shawnee and other cities do. He
stated they may have to look at different things to do. He stated Shawnee is going to
have to make some tough decisions, but he believes City Manager Gonzales is
presenting things tonight that will probably have to happen if the tax does not pass in
City Manager Gonzales stated the other huge thing hanging out there is a street
maintenance program. She stated she hopes they do not have to continue putting that
gas tax into the General Fund.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is talking about the things City Manager Gonzales
is laying out here tonight.
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 69
City Manager Gonzales stated in order to find money to cut a million dollars and in
the future to have a street maintenance program, those are the kinds of things they
will need to look at further.
Councilmember Sawyer stated they had to cut out the street maintenance program in
2009, but there has been an issue with the street maintenance and can say mill and
overlays are the only issue, but there are people in certain parts of this city who
wonder about the curbs and gutters they do not have, so that is part of street
maintenance as well.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he can sit there and say the City neglects that all the
time and he does. He stated they have pulled off streets from the CIP that do not have
curbs and gutters and have kids walking on the streets. He stated that is all, in his
opinion, street maintenance and something that this Council is going to have to look
at in the future. He stated the staff is going to have to look at maybe not doing it every
11 or even every 15 years, but it is certainly something they have to look at.
Councilmember Sawyer stated he is not prepared to sit here tonight and listen about it
being doom and gloom here out and forever. He stated it will turn around. He stated
maybe not as fast as they would all like, but the news media keeps telling everyone
that everything is bad. He stated things will become bad if they listen to that long
enough. He stated that yes things are tight and he is in agreement with that fact, but
the Council and staff have to do the smart things to get through the low side, but
things will turn around and everyone heard it here first.
Councilmember Goode stated he has been preaching that for 25 years. He stated he
has been through these things before and the City came out of them a lot faster than a
lot of times he thought it would take. He stated he is less enthusiastic about coming
out this one than he has with any of them and has been through a lot of them sitting
City Manager Gonzales stated there are other fees and revenues on this list that the
staff will be looking at and bringing before the Council as they get them analyzed and
studied. She stated that ties into her future presentation.
City Manager Gonzales stated the CIP is scheduled for September and the staff will
be doing analyses on service levels, programs, and revenues in the next weeks and
months. She stated they need to come up with a plan to get the City back to 35% and
need to come up with a plan for street, curb, and sidewalk maintenance in the future.
City Manager Gonzales presented the budget that was presented this evening with all
the components that were discussed. She stated if there are things that the Council
wants the staff to bring forward on July 14, 2008 related to parks the staff can look at
those dollars and put them in the packet memo. She stated if there are other
suggestions or things the Council wants the staff to look at, remembering that the
notice they publish is the maximum tax levy. She stated they will not be acting on it
JULY 8, 2008 FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION MINUTES PAGE 70
on Monday, July 14, 2008, publish the Notice of Public Hearing, and then on July 28,
2008 is the actual public hearing and adoption of the 2008R and 2009 budget.
Councilmember Goode stated in his past experiences over times like these over the
period of time he has served this City, he has thought things would get better and he
has been more right than wrong about things getting better. He stated he has been
very surprised in all these similar instances they are experiencing here tonight, that
the City came out of these things a lot faster than expected. He stated with this
situation that is presented tonight, it is not something he has been able to predict as
well as he has in the past, but still thinks that it is going to get better, but does not
look for things to get better until probably some time the middle of next year.
Councilmember Goode stated what the economy today is lacking, is confidence in
people; people who can not go out and pay $4.00+ for gas. He stated they do not
have the money to do it. He stated like Councilmember Kuhn said a while ago,
people are refinancing and changing from 15 to 30 year loans. He stated they have to
straighten all that up and the confidence to go out and buy products, as far as people
are concerned takes place, then they will come out of this thing. He thinks they are
going to come out of it a little faster than he is anticipating right now and hopes it is
going to be that way.
Councilmember Straub, seconded by Councilmember Pflumm, moved to adjourn. The motion
carried 4-0, and the meeting adjourned at 11:00 p.m.
Minutes prepared by: Cindy Terrell, Recording Secretary
Vicki Charlesworth, City Clerk