VIEWS: 11 PAGES: 141 POSTED ON: 12/10/2011
6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 1 of 141 TUESDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:02. House Chairperson Mr G Q M Doidge took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000. CHANGES IN PARTY MEMBERSHIP AS RESULT OF FLOOR-CROSSING (Announcement) The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon members, before we proceed with today‘s business, I wish to announce the following party membership changes, which have occurred as a result of floor- crossing. Mr S Simmons has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party and joined a new party, called the United Party of South Africa. [Interjections.] Order! 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 2 of 141 Mr L M Green has, on 1 September 2005, left the African Christian Democratic Party and joined a new party, called the Federation of Democrats. [Interjections.] The following members have, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party and joined the African National Congress: Mr M C J van Schalkwyk, Mr C H F Greyling, Mr F Beukman, Ms C B Johnson and Mr J Schippers. Mr J J M Stevens has, today, left the United Democratic Movement and joined the Democratic Alliance. [Interjections.] Mr L K Joubert has, today, left the Inkatha Freedom Party and joined the Democratic Alliance. [Interjections.] Order! The following members have, today, left the Inkatha Freedom Party and joined a new party, called the National Democratic Convention: Mr M V Ngema, Mr B C Ngiba and Dr G G Woods. [Interjections.] The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I need some clarity, in relation to this floor-crossing. Can you clarify something for me, sir? The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): I can try, hon Chief Whip. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 3 of 141 The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, my understanding is that there is a pact between the DA and the IFP that they do not accept members from each other. [Laughter.] This is public knowledge and it has been publicly stated. Has the nation been misled or what is happening? Can you please clarify this? The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon Chief Whip, that is a matter that the Chair would not like to express itself on. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, having granted the Chief Whip so much latitude, perhaps you will give me a little latitude as well to say that he is obviously behind the times on this as on most other things. [Interjections.] There was an agreement which existed at the time of floor-crossing two years ago, and more particularly at local government level. There is a very good relationship which exists between the IFP and the DA, and in particular between our leaders. That relationship, as far as we are concerned, will not be disturbed at all. My leader was in touch with Dr Buthelezi before this happened. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Thank you, Mr Gibson. That will suffice. [Interjections.] Order, Chief Whip! ACHIEVEMENTS OF DEAFSA IN 2005 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 4 of 141 (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the House — (1) notes that the International Week of Deaf people will be celebrated once again from 5 to 11 September 2005; (2) recognises that the Deaf Federation of South Africa, DEAFSA, would like to make use of this opportunity to ensure that South African society is aware of its achievements during the past year; (3) notes that one of the highlights in 2005 was the registration of Unit Standards for South African Sign Language as an additional language at the South African Qualifications Authority, as well as the pending registration of the Unit Standards for SASL Home Language (General Education Training and Further Education and Training); (4) acknowledges that DEAFSA and the South African Translator‘s Institute, SATI, have established a joint accreditation process for SASL interpreters to ensure that a quality service is delivered; 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 5 of 141 (5) congratulates DEAFSA on being chosen as the host for the first ever International Sign Language Interpreting Conference that will meet in the Western Cape from 31 October 2005 to 2 November 2005; and (6) calls on all South Africans to support DEAFSA and ensure the success of the conference. [Applause.] Agreed to. NATIONAL ARBOUR WEEK (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the House— (1) notes that 1 to 7 September is National Arbour Week; 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 6 of 141 (2) further notes that this week serves as a means to mobilise our people and make them aware of the importance of planting and preserving indigenous trees for the future of our country; (3) recalls the significant role played by trees in stabilising topsoil, safeguarding the water table and purifying the air; (4) further recalls that indigenous trees are an integral part of our ecosystem, providing food and shelter to hundreds of animal species; and (5) calls on all South Africans to join hands with environmental activists in efforts to preserve our indigenous plants for future generations. [Applause.] Agreed to. MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS NEPOTISM CLAIM AGAINST MINISTER BALFOUR SLAMMED (Member‘s Statement) Mr M S MOATSHE (ANC): Chairperson, an unfortunate tendency has developed within certain sectors of society, through which our 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 7 of 141 political leadership is continuously vilified by those who have political axes to grind with this government. As the ANC we have confidence in the integrity of Minister Ngconde Balfour, who fully understands and respects the Constitution of the country and the recruitment policy of the ANC-led government. Thank you. [Applause.] PRESIDENT MBEKI’S COMMISSION OF INQUIRY (Member‘s Statement) Ms H ZILLE (DA): Chairperson, the ANC is very quick to suggest a commission of inquiry when it needs to deal with tensions in the Tripartite Alliance. But it is a different story altogether when issues of national importance need to be investigated. The ANC government has consistently dismissed all calls to open a commission of inquiry into the arms deal and the Oilgate scandals. Instead, we are treated to whitewashed reports that exonerate the government of all wrongdoing without interrogating the facts. The ANC must assure the public that it will not spend taxpayers‘ money on a commission of inquiry into President Mbeki‘s alleged conspiracy against former Deputy President Zuma. Such an investigation constitutes a profound misuse of public funds. South Africans are far more worried about failed service delivery, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 8 of 141 unemployment and corruption than a jockeying for power and position within the ANC. [Applause.] PROMPT POLICE ACTION WELCOMED BY ANC (Member‘s Statement) Ms M M SOTYU (ANC): Chairperson, on Sunday, 28 August 2005, a group of people from the Mangaung community, in Bloemfontein, raised their concerns about a woman who had allegedly been set alight by her husband. The community wanted the man not to be granted bail, as they believed that vigilante actions could take place as a result of him getting bail. We called the local police station in Kagisanong, and within three minutes the police were there. They listened to the community‘s concerns and addressed the community. The police satisfied the community to such an extent that they dispersed very happily. We are proud to inform the House that the suspect has been denied bail and we would like to congratulate the police in Kagisanong, particularly Constables Mothethe and Phalatsane from Kagisanong police station together with Inspector Ramoseli from the flying squad, who arrested the suspect and we want to thank them for prompt, quality service. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 9 of 141 This is an example for all police members and stations of the type of service that we expect in every corner of our country. Together, and with a positive approach, we will overcome crime in this country. I thank you. [Applause.] PROBE INTO SABC BIAS (Member‘s Statement) Ms N C NKABINDE (UDM): Chairperson, the UDM notes with interest the outcome of the SABC probe into its failure to broadcast footage of supporters of the former Deputy President jeering the new hon Deputy President of the country. The incident was not broadcast and immediately sparked concern that this was a political agenda on the part of the SABC. This impression was further deepened when the SABC spokesperson claimed that the SABC cameraman had not arrived in time to capture footage of the incident. When e.tv aired the footage showing clearly that an SABC cameraman was, in fact, present during the incident and had recorded it, the unmistakeable whiff of a cover-up could no longer be ignored. Whilst we applaud the courage and swiftness of the SABC CEO in appointing an inquiry into the matter, we remain concerned about the implications of the entire saga. Firstly, we still do not have facts 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 10 of 141 about the extent, if any, of an attempted cover-up. Secondly, the perception of political bias at the SABC is not based solely on this incident and has not been laid to rest. In this respect, we would urge the SABC to immediately institute a full-scale investigation into the possibility of a cover-up. That the original incident was not broadcast is bad enough. That members of the public broadcaster may have deliberately sought to deceive the public about the matter is a complete betrayal of the public broadcaster‘s mandate. The SABC must . . . [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.] VRYBURG BY-ELECTION (Member‘s Statement) Mr V C GORE (ID): Chairperson, the DA has once again sunk to new depths in the selection of their candidate for the upcoming by- election to be held tomorrow in Ward Three, Vryburg, in the North West Province - a Mr Bashier Gafoor. Purporting to be a practising Muslim, he is running an illegal shebeen, selling liquor to under-age children, and thus exploiting the community he wishes to represent. In addition, not only does he supply illegal alcohol, he also operates an illegal gambling machine from the same premises. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 11 of 141 At a meeting held on Sunday, 4 September 2005, addressed by the hon Patricia de Lille, the community told her about the devastating effects of this house of sin in Vryburg. The hon De Lille has also been to the illegal shebeen where she was able to confirm the illegal selling of alcohol to minors. There is also an allegation that the DA member, a Mr Van Tonder, paid Mr Gafoor a R5 000 bribe in order to stand for the DA. Once again the DA has shown that it will stop at nothing in scraping the bottom of the barrel in the choice of their public representatives. [Interjections.] The ID has also laid a charge against the person concerned and urges the voters in the Vryburg by-election not to support the DA. I thank you. MATATIELE AND CEDARVILLE DISTRICTS TO FORM UMZIMBUVU MUNICIPALITY (Member‘s Statement) Mrs C DUDLEY (ACDP): Chair, according to the Government Gazette of 19 and 26 August it appears that plans are in place to excise the Matatiele and Cedarville district from KwaZulu-Natal, and form the Umzimbuvu Municipality as part of the Eastern Cape. The ACDP would like to express our concern that the people of the area, including 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 12 of 141 the Maluti rural area, are strongly opposed to this move, and object to the apparent railroading of this proposal without any consultation with the people that will be affected. Although it has been the desire of most people in the affected area, since 1994, that one municipality be formed, there is a strong objection to the municipality being part of the Eastern Cape. This proposal will not only subject residents of Matatiele to the conditions faced by the poorer and largely underserviced areas of the Eastern Cape, but will also add an extra burden on these residents to travel about eight hours to reach the administrative offices in Bisho. These residents currently travel four hours to the administrative offices in Pietermaritzburg. These last few months we‘ve witnessed the repercussions of a lack of service delivery. Can we really afford another disgruntled, underserviced community? The people of Matatiele community have been vocal in their opposition to this proposal, but are concerned that this is not being taken into account. The movement of hundreds of people into an area that is underserviced, without adequate consultation with them, could equal the displacement many have endured in the past. The ACDP believes that if government wants to alleviate what Minister Sydney Mfumadi calls ―an administrative nightmare‖, then it must clearly 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 13 of 141 demonstrate how these changes will in fact impact on service delivery. Thank you. [Time expired.] PEACE IN BURUNDI (Member‘s Statement) Mr O E MONARENG (ANC): Chair, the ANC-led government will continue in its efforts to work for peace on this continent. The swearing-in of President Pierre Nkulunziza marks an end to the era of conflict. The world observed this important milestone in the efforts of the people of Burundi to bring about peace in their country. The democratisation process in Burundi gives hope to the people of the Democratic Republic of Congo that peace in their country is within their grasp. Peace in Burundi also communicates the message to the people of Sudan that they too will live in peace. Peace in Burundi means that the people of the Great Lakes Region will be able to choose a developmental path that is grounded on the concrete circumstances of their region. We in the ANC, together with the people of the continent and the world, are happy to be celebrating another achievement of the human spirit. I thank you. [Applause.] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 14 of 141 UNTRUTHS SPREAD BY THE LEADER OF THE ID (Member‘s Statement) Mr M SWART (DA): Chair, the least we can expect from leaders of political parties is that they verify and quote facts correctly and not mislead the public. The hon Patricia de Lille repeated her recent parliamentary statement in front of approximately 70 journalists, namely that the current mayor of George is the highest paid mayor in South Africa at R1 million per annum. She also commented to a journalist that I, in my capacity as the previous mayor of George, received a severance package of R2 million when I was elected to Parliament. Both statements are totally devoid of truth. The salary of a mayor is determined by the national Minister of Local Government and Provincial Affairs and is published in the Government Gazette. The mayor of George is remunerated at the same level as other mayors of grade four municipalities, and his salary is not even R300 000 per annum. No provision is ever made for severance packages for counsellors, and the statement that I received a severance package in some or other form is untrue. I call on the hon De Lille to refrain from broadcasting untruths and to start practising her politics in a responsible and honest manner. I have instructed my attorneys to 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 15 of 141 institute legal proceedings against Ms De Lille for defamation of character. [Interjections.] Mr V C GORE: Hon Chair, on a point of order: I would like you to make a ruling on the following. It is an established practice within this House that if a member wishes to bring any allegations of improper conduct on the part of another member to the attention of the House they should do so by way of a substantive motion, comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge. It has also been ruled previously that members should not be allowed to impute improper motives to other members who cast personal reflections on their integrity, or verbally abuse them in any other way. I ask you to make a ruling on this point. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, we will look at the content of the statement, and we will look at your point of order and we will give a ruling on it at the next sitting of the House. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, on a point of order: Ms De Lille made the allegation in this House. She was not pulled up by the Chair, she was not told to move a substantive notice of motion . . . 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 16 of 141 The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Mr Gibson, I am ruling you out of order on the basis that I have expressed what the Chair will do, which is in keeping with the practice of this House. We will look at the statement and we will come back to the House with a ruling on the next sitting day. BLACK CONSCIOUSNESS WEEK (Member‘s Statement) Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE (Azapo): Chairperson, today, 6 September 2005, is the start of Black Consciousness Week, a week dedicated to the commemoration of the death in detention, as well as the ideas, of Steven Bantu Biko. It is now 28 years since his death in detention. Azapo invites all people of our land to take time to remember the contributions Biko made in order to bring about our young democracy. There is no doubt that if Biko was alive he would be pleased with the fact that black people are now in charge of their political destiny, with a very significant number of women beginning to advance to positions of power as well. He will see the advancement of women as an indication that his dream of a nonsexist and egalitarian society is emerging. He will, however, be deeply concerned that racism is still alive and kicking in our society. At the same time he will be dismayed by the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 17 of 141 fact that the poor of our society are still struggling to make a living, and that the economy is still in white hands. Steve Biko‘s thinking ability had a remarkable grasp of conditions and circumstances under which the poor live. For this reason, the nondelivery of essential services to the poor . . . Time expired.] [Applause.] FLOOR-CROSSING BY NNP MEMBERS TO ANC WELCOMED (Member‘s Statement) Prof A K ASMAL (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the move, to the ANC, by former members of the NNP. This is recognition of the ANC as a broad church, a home for all. These members will join us in developing a national consciousness as a national movement, a national consciousness about what it means to be a South African. The dissolution of the NNP is a further illustration of how much we have moved away from the monstrous racism that many of us lived through. From my personal contact with these members, I can say that they reflect the basic assumptions of our Constitution, which must be the guiding light: equality, freedom, dignity and social justice. Therefore, the ANC knows that they care for the fact that there are people who are marginalised in our society. They will find that we 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 18 of 141 debate and argue issues, unlike other parties, and we discuss. We come to a situation quite alien to many of the former political parties and, I should say, judging from the moves from some parties, to present parties too. So the ANC in the House welcomes their move, recognises then that we can build a society rich in diversity, but united for a particular purpose: Freedom. Thank you. [Applause.] HIGH MURDER RATE IN THE WESTERN CAPE (Member‘s Statement) Mr R JANKIELSOHN (DA): Chairperson, the Western Cape continues to have the highest murder rate in the country with a ratio of 59,9 murders per 100 000 of the population. At the same time, the province also has one of the highest robbery rates with 293 robberies per 100 000 of the population. The SA Police Service in the province continues to suffer shortages of 541 detectives, 1 290 crime-prevention personnel and 171 vehicles. The Bellville South and Athlone police stations are particularly problematic. The Bellville South station has shortages of 60% of detectives and 12% of visible policing personnel. Athlone has shortages of 33% of detectives and 22% of personnel for visible policing. Areas such as these will only win the war against crime 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 19 of 141 when the SA Police Service in these areas has the required resources to prevent crime and detect and punish criminals. If the Deputy President, with her fully staffed component of bodyguards, becomes a victim of crime, how can residents in areas such as Athlone and Bellville South feel safe in their homes when their police stations are understaffed to such an extent? Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.] OLD MUTUAL AND DEVELOPMENT BANK COMMENDED ON INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS IN RURAL AREAS (Member‘s Statement) Ms E NGALEKA (ANC): Chairperson, South Africa‘s mammoth task of eradicating poverty, unemployment and underdevelopment cannot be a challenge that should rest solely on the shoulders of government. The task of erecting a sustainable bridge between the first and the second economies demands that all economic role-players join forces to build a solid and durable economy. It is in this context that the ANC commends the Old Mutual Assets Manager‘s announcement recently to invest in infrastructure projects in the rural parts of our country. The private-sector money administrator has joined forces with the Development Bank of Southern Africa to launch a R500 million fund to be co-invested in 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 20 of 141 development projects in poor provinces such as the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and the North West. As the President correctly said in the state of the nation address, success in the growth of our economy should be manifest to the extent that the marginalised in the wilderness of the second economy are included and are at least afforded sustainable livelihoods. We are hopeful that this move will bolster rural development and further pull the poor closer to the mainstream economy. We congratulate both these institutions on this bold initiative and hope that more companies will take their cue from this. I thank you. [Applause.] CAPE TOWN MUNICIPALITY (Member‘s Statement) Ms N J NGELE (ANC): Chairperson, during the first 10 years of our freedom and democracy the ANC-led government built an unprecedented 1,6 million new houses, accommodating around 6 million people, and transferred title deeds to many more. However, we acknowledge the fact that many of our people are still homeless and others are living in squalid conditions. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 21 of 141 The City of Cape Town municipality has decided to grant more than 15 000 tenants title deeds. They have been renting council flats for more than 20 years. One excited tenant, Mr Nicholas Blaauw of Heideveld, who is 67 years old, had this to say about the initiative: ―I never thought this day would come. Finally this flat will become our home.‖ He had lived in the flat for more than 35 years. The following areas will be the immediate beneficiaries: Kewtown, Hanover Park, Manenberg, Bellville South and Diep River. The ANC salutes the initiative taken by the City of Cape Town municipality to better the lives of our people, and further urges other municipalities to investigate the possibilities of such initiatives in their areas. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.] MINISTERS’ RESPONSES FLOOR-CROSSING BY NNP MEMBERS TO ANC WELCOMED (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, I think it is important that today we acknowledge that this window period of floor-crossing marks the culmination of the negotiations that the ANC and the NP started 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 22 of 141 whilst some of the members of the ANC were prisoners and others were in exile. The two parties – the ANC and the NP – opened a dialogue that over the years produced a negotiated settlement and a Constitution that today is the pride of all of us. Subsequent to that, the two parties persisted, in spite of the difficulties, to provide an example to the population of our country that a joint effort must continue to produce better days, stability for our nation, and so on. Therefore, ultimately, the dissolution of the NNP and the joining of the ANC by the majority of its members, signal the advancement of our country towards a genuine national and patriotic nation. [Interjections.] Beyond that point, I think it is important that although there are those who may not yet have joined I am quite sure that in the period that lies ahead, increasing numbers of those who stayed behind will follow suit. The nations of our region, the nations of our continent, have taken very seriously the example of the NP and the ANC in starting a negotiation to eliminate conflict. Today the nations of our continent are saying that there can be no resolution of conflict, of problems, without the participation of South Africa, without drawing from the experience this nation has had. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 23 of 141 I think it is proper therefore that we say that this negotiation laid the foundation for peace on our continent. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.] ALLEGED SABC COVER-UP, HOUSING AND ROLE OF SA POLICE SERVICE IN THE FIGHT AGAINST CRIME (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, the hon member of the UDM should have stopped at congratulating the CEO of the SABC for having initiated the probe that he did with independent experts. He should also have noted the report by Prof Berger and colleagues who assisted him. That report found that, in fact, there was no cover-up but that, certainly, the SABC needs to improve with respect to co- ordination in the corporation. However, if the member had stopped at congratulating the CEO, we would absolutely agree, because he acted as he needed to do, and certainly showed that he deserves to be in the position he occupies at this time. So there is actually no political capital to make out of this one. With respect to the housing needs and government‘s response, particularly regarding the action by the Cape Town city council, certainly, this is part of the achievement of programmes that 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 24 of 141 government has set out to accomplish, in terms of our contract with the people to ensure that their development, housing and other needs are indeed satisfied. I am sure that the hon member from Azapo would agree that providing for housing needs and basic services is part of achieving the ideal that Steve Biko lived for and eventually sacrificed his life for. It is for that reason that we work so hard to ensure that the ideals espoused are achieved; and we do so through educational empowerment as well. Finally, we welcome the comments members have made with respect to the SA Police Service. Any thinking member of Parliament knows that we are doing as much as we can to ensure that we do erode the instances of crime in our country; and that, indeed, the conduct of the constables mentioned, from the Free State province, exemplifies the kind of Police Service that our government has worked so hard to build. I thank you. [Applause.] COMMISSIONS OF INQUIRY AND TRANSPARENCY (Minister‘s Response) The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, I want to comment on the commission of inquiry issue which was mentioned by the DA because, perhaps, the hon member has decided to forget that it is us 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 25 of 141 here who actually took the bull by the horns to constitute an inquiry a few years ago around the issue of the arms deal. The report on that issue was actually tabled in this Parliament. [Interjections.] Yes, it was temporary, according to the DA. That‘s what you are saying. We are surprised, because that report concerning those chapter 9 institutions was actually approved here by this Parliament. It is good for you to note that the ANC, which is leading this government, actually believes in conducting and forming commissions. That is the strength of the ANC because it believes in transparency and frankness, which is what we have taught you. And the ANC believes in conducting its business in the open. All reports about whatever it was that we have investigated in the past have been placed before you in this Parliament, and those reports were debated here. That‘s a culture which we have introduced in the country and which was foreign to you. It‘s a culture which you have never practised and never introduced in this country, hon Sheila, during your time as Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development. I thank you. [Applause.] LEGAL PROCESSES REGARDING CROSS-BOUNDARY MUNICIPALITIES (Minister‘s Response) 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 26 of 141 The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Chairperson, I would like to respond to the concern raised by the hon member from the ACDP with regard to cross-boundary municipalities. I would also like to urge the member not to instigate or raise people‘s anger by misleading them or giving them wrong information. The information is quite clear that there are legal processes that are going to take place around cross-boundary municipalities. You also said, right so, that it is a proposal on the table and due processes will take place where public hearings will take place. All those affected areas, not only Matatiele, can participate and come forward in the public hearings to state their cases as to why they cannot be moved to one area or another. What I would like to urge the member from the ACDP to do is that he should go to Matatiele and encourage all the affected parties to participate in those public hearings. I thank you. [Applause.] INTERPARLIAMENTARY UNION TOPIC: MIGRATION AND DEVELOPMENT (Debate) Mr R COETZEE: Chairperson, I think I should just clarify something. The ANC can have as many investigations into its own affairs as it likes, it just can‘t do them with taxpayers money. That‘s called the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 27 of 141 separation of party and state and I would have thought that the Minister and the Cabinet would understand that distinction. [Interjections.] As the world continues to globalise, so migration – legal and otherwise – increases. Perhaps the key insight into the future of migration is that it is impossible to stop people from moving across borders in a world where it becomes easier and easier for almost everything else to exist in a borderless global community. Inherent in this reality are both opportunities and threats because, on the one hand, for those of us who regard borders as essentially artificial constructs, a vision of a world in which people, as well as information and capital, move with maximum freedom is exciting and compelling. On the other hand, such a world is only possible where there is consensus on certain values, respect for human rights, commitment to democracy, and love for individual freedom. That is also possible only in a world economy, which is free enough to grow and absorb new entrants into expanding labour markets. What renders migration fraught is a clash of values, as exemplified most tragically in the recent bombing of trains and a bus in London a few months ago by the British-born descendants of migrants. What also makes it complicated is competition for resources and jobs, which is something that contributes enormously to xenophobia in our own country every day. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 28 of 141 So, to find a policy course through the treacherous waters of international migration is not easy, but it is essential. South Africa is both a destination for migrants and the place of their origin, especially skilled ones. We must draw on our wide experience in our contribution to the debate at the Interparliamentary Union in October. Our challenge is twofold. First, we must find a way to deal with the millions of people, mostly Africans, who flock across our borders. Some people think it is politically dangerous to be what is sometimes called ―soft on immigration‖. But that is really just a way of trying to accommodate xenophobia. The fact is that people come to South Africa out of desperation and hope. Human beings everywhere want the same simple things - basic security and the opportunity to take care of themselves and their families. Quite a few years ago I took a harrowing train trip into Mozambique, where I saw first-hand the most destitute people I have ever laid eyes on. After a week in that country, I arrived back in Nelspruit and saw that town through the eyes of an illegal immigrant. It seemed grand, impossibly wealthy, and flooded with opportunities. The fact is that our country's approach to illegal immigration is a hopeless failure and a farce. Millions and millions of illegal immigrants live here. Only a tiny fraction are caught, sometimes 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 29 of 141 abused, and then shipped - probably temporarily – back to their countries of origin. Many of them return a few months later. I am not saying this as a wanton criticism of the government, because I think it is a difficult problem to deal with. And I am not suggesting that anybody has a perfect answer because I don‘t have one either. But I do think that this House needs to have an honest and open conversation about what to do about a problem that our current policies quite simply do not address; and to do so in a humane manner that respects people and human rights. We need also to deal with the problem of skilled migrants who leave our shores for opportunity elsewhere. Everyone knows how the brain drain is undermining our health system, for example. Indeed, a lack of skilled human resources is the number one problem facing our health system today. Today I don‘t have time to deal with the health system, but my party has done so on numerous occasions. I would simply say that one easy way in which to counteract the brain drain is to make it easy for skilled people from abroad to set up shop here in our country. I know two people from other countries – two of many thousands – who were educated at our universities at enormous expense to our taxpayers and who, once they had graduated, could not get permission to stay and work in South Africa. So today both of them are 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 30 of 141 contributing their skills – learnt here at our expense – to the people of Great Britain. And that is a waste. We need urgent and rational action on the part of the government to sort this mess out. Frankly, it's not that difficult to do. We mustn‘t obsess about control. What we must do is to say to the skilled people of the world that this is a place where they can come and ply their trade, apply their skills, employ our people and make them richer. We should open our doors to those people. The resolution that will serve before the Interparliamentary Union in Geneva later this year is largely rational. I think it‘s sensitive to the plight of immigrants and I am sure that my party‘s representative will support it. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, apparently, the migration we are talking about does not include the migration of members of Parliament from one party to another. This is of course a very serious subject, which cuts across the borders of practically all countries in the world, with implications for the world as a whole - migration and development. It is therefore also very appropriate for our Parliament to discuss this matter. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 31 of 141 Regarding the meaning of the term ―migrant‖, I find it surprising that it apparently has no universally accepted definition, despite the fact that it is a widely publicised phenomenon that has been occurring for a long time. The UN has however proposed that a long- term migrant be defined as follows: ―A person who moves to a country, other than that of his or her usual residence, for a period of at least twelve months‖. We know by now that migratory laws are a worldwide reality and create different and mostly serious implications for the international community. The phenomenon has escalated in recent decades. Escalation can be seen from the fact that in 1965 there were only 75 million migrants, while just 20 years later, in 1985, this figure had reached a staggering 105 million. We Africans have not escaped this phenomenon, and according to estimates by the UN, the total number of international migrants in Africa rose from 9 million in 1960 to 16 million in 2000. A study conducted by the University of Cape Town revealed that over 233 000 South Africans emigrated permanently to five countries between 1989 and 1997. This figure of 233 000 South Africans emigrating is disputed by many others who allege that it is causing confusion to refer to formal emigrants only, and the real migration figure is hidden. They are saying that up to two million people have left South Africa, but have not yet migrated. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 32 of 141 There are many causes for migration, such as political instability, loss of confidence in the future of a particular country, continued poverty, lack of economic prospects, human rights violations and discrimination in the country of origin. I shall now briefly deal with the challenges we are faced with in this respect. A recent report by the International Labour Organisation contains a list of ten challenges that international migration currently entails. Included on the list are the manifestation of xenophobic hostility and the exodus of well- educated professionals – the brain drain. Those two topics are currently very relevant to South Africa. Xenophobia is present in South Africa, as some people see foreigners as people out to steal their jobs and take the food out of their mouths. Foreigners are therefore sometimes targeted and seen as unwelcome, especially in the face of the fact that we suffer from a huge unemployment problem. Since the beginning of the 1990s there has been an increased migration of skilled and highly skilled workers leading to a brain drain from some countries, including South Africa. Developed countries and those with ageing populations will try to attract the most skilled, trained and experienced workers who can add value to the economy and have a positive impact on the economic development of their countries. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 33 of 141 While the migration of workers has many benefits for the developed countries, South Africa, as well as most other developing countries, faces an enormous drain of human resources. There are clearly many challenges facing us with regard to migration and development. This is a growing phenomenon that requires a comprehensive and coherent strategy at an international level, which is currently lacking. Although there are many international initiatives addressing migration, they should be receiving more international attention than they are currently getting. In conclusion, we as parliamentarians have an important role to play in highlighting this important issue and its many challenges, as well as achieving the integration of the required laws and public policies. Thank you. Mr L W GREYLING: Hon Chair, it is often stated that we live in a global village. One of the characteristics of this global village is that people move around it, exploring different opportunities to enhance their quality of life. In many ways this movement of people enriches our village by exposing all of us to different cultures and perspectives on life. There are certain worrying trends which need to be addressed in this movement, though. Sixty percent of global migrants reside in the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 34 of 141 more developed countries and only 40% in developing countries. Developing country migration is also mainly between these countries, rather than from developed countries. It is therefore an unfortunate reality that most people tend to migrate towards economically- developed centres, in many cases, taking with them the skills that are desperately needed in our own countries. In South Africa there is much talk of the so-called brain drain, where we lose many skilled people to developed countries. In some cases these people are only temporary migrants, looking to expose themselves to a new culture and return a few years later. This kind of migration can be enormously beneficial to South Africa, as these migrants return with new skills and global experience and in some cases even foreign currency that can contribute to our economy. This kind of migration should be encouraged, but at the same time we need to ensure that we also build a sense of national pride and create the right incentives to prevent many of our skilled compatriots from becoming permanent migrants. We should also be looking at making it easier for those foreigners with the willingness and skills to contribute to building our new society. I have met many foreigners in South Africa who have fallen in love with this country and are looking for any way possible to stay longer and help us in our reconstruction and development efforts. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 35 of 141 It is therefore worrying that the Department of Home Affairs has currently issued a directive that states that no new applications for exceptional skills can be processed, because they have not yet worked out the precise quota. This issue needs to be urgently addressed if we are to encourage our skilled foreigners to stay and build our society. Finally, I wish to address the important issue of refugees in South Africa. The majority of these refugees are single, young men who have fled intolerable situations in their own countries. I have met refugees who are educated as doctors, teachers and agricultural scientists, who are being forced to work in menial jobs such as car guards. Although they are educated, they struggle to convert their qualifications through Saqa, depriving them of a meaningful income and South Africa of their skills base. This issue must be addressed and we need to create a far more enabling environment to allow genuine refugees into the mainstream of our society. In this way we can actively promote a true African Renaissance. I thank you. Mr S N SWART: Chairman, the ACDP endorses the IPUs‘ concerns as set out in its draft report on the consequences of the brain drain. In the first instance, active ways must be sought to halt migration of skilled workers and skilled citizens, particularly in the field of 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 36 of 141 medicine - as the situation in South Africa pertains. We need to encourage health care workers to stay in the country by providing improved service conditions, better salaries and incentives, especially in the rural areas. Whereas the ACDP also welcomes the fact that even the contributions of those who have already left the country may not necessarily be lost to us, rapid technological advancement means that the relaying of information back to the country of origin becomes a useful mechanism for the transfer of knowledge and skills. Furthermore, migrants who return to their country of origin can make a meaningful contribution to socioeconomic upliftment. We in the ACDP believe that we must provide some form of incentive, whether tax or otherwise, to encourage our expatriates to return to help build the nation. The influx of migrants into South Africa can also mean that the pool of talent that has exited the country can be replaced with similarly qualified personnel. We believe that harnessing the talents and expertise of new arrivals to the country can address shortages created by the brain drain. We do, however, need to have a look at the red tape in applications for work permits and the costs involved for skilled migrants. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 37 of 141 We in the ACDP are also extremely concerned about the vulnerability to trafficking, human rights violations and xenophobia that migrants, particularly women, in South Africa and other nations, are exposed to. According to the draft IPU report, women today move with greater ease and are freer with regard to their family responsibilities and the authority of men. It is estimated overall that 48% of migrants are women. The report goes on to state that female migrants deserve special attention, as they are more often victims of human rights violations, sexual and labour exploitation and often receive lower wages than male migrants. On the other hand, whilst fully acknowledging the special vulnerability of women migrants and abuses women are more prone to suffer, the draft report also points out that migration can contain an element of empowerment of women as it offers the possibility of financial independence and a new status for such women within their families and society. The ACDP urges parliamentarians, who will attend the debate in the IPU, to adopt a clear and focused stance with regard to the brain drain and other issues we have raised. On the one hand, let us do everything in our power to keep our skilled citizens in the country, and on the other hand, let us 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 38 of 141 devise channels for the transfer of knowledge and incentives for the return of those expatriates who have left; and in so doing, attempt to fill the gaps by providing opportunities to migrants in our own country. I thank you. Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, we in South Africa are no strangers to migration. The majority of our population was brought to South Africa over many decades, to work in the fields. That‘s how we have proudly become the rainbow nation. However, from the report it is evident that migration is a process that has not slowed down in any way over the years, and, as we know, migration comes with its own benefits and hazards. We have lost many of our professionals to countries abroad, and we have an influx of people migrating to South Africa from whom we can benefit through skills and fresh knowledge. The loss of resources to maintain and provide for our local citizenry can be compensated by such foreigners. This provides a strong argument against xenophobia and the insecurities and fears of locals. The MF feels that while there should be leeway for immigrants, we do however support certain protective measures, not only for the local citizenry, but also to ensure the security of such immigrants. We are a democratic country that adheres strongly to the values and principles of human rights. Noting this, we will not be tolerant of 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 39 of 141 any contravention of our national Constitution or the exploitation of any person. The MF supports this IPU report and wishes the matter to be further addressed with our neighbouring African states. A person should have freedom of movement. Human rights and the laws of any country that one enters need to be adhered to and honoured. The ―brain drain‖ and ―brain gain‖ resulting from migratory trends are driven by the search for better pay, better working conditions and greater opportunities for career advancement, and also the chance to get ahead in receiving countries. Migrants who return home, temporary or permanently, can contribute to the development of their countries. Thank you. [Applause.] Ms H C MGABADELI: Chairperson and the House, before turning to the report by the IPU, I think it is appropriate to provide some perspectives and thoughts on this issue within the context of so- called First World and Third World migration, for if we do not address the context, we will run the risk of concentrating on international First World migration and thus neglect the issue of the development of Third World migration. Migration, according to the Collins Gem Dictionary, means ―move from one place to settle in another, a journey between different habitats‖. I will dwell on what we call intercountry migration, its 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 40 of 141 causes and development. Intercountry migrations are largely caused by the foreign introduction of economic means of production that defies those of the aborigines. This arrogant introduction of foreign means of production is then confronted by different kinds of resistance from the would-be labour force. In order to force labour to yield the monetary reward in the form of wages, all sorts of legislation was put in place to ensure that migration took place under duress. People faced poverty and arrests due to these laws, so they left their areas of birth and moved to cities and towns where the capitalist mode of production was in operation, and this became the order of the day. Some of the laws that institutionalised migration in the Republic of South Africa were, for instance, the hut tax that was introduced by Sir Theophilus Shepstone in Natal and the poll tax for every man over the age of 18 years, which was introduced by the colonialists in Natal in 1906. The labour tax, introduced by Cecil Rhodes in the Cape, was known as the Glen Grey Act of 1894. It forced people in the Cape to pay R1 every year unless they could prove that they had worked for wages for three months. They knew that if you were not employed and your source of survival was not cash, you would borrow this R1 until you became bankrupt. The second measure was the written passes to undertake any kind of journey in the Cape, which was in existence long before 1828. It was 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 41 of 141 called the Caledon Code and Ordinance 49. Another measure was an employment Act that formalised the imperial state‘s full regulation of the migrant labour economy, a practice that Grey had already introduced in British Kaffraria. Based on the above, and many other measures, we therefore cannot just talk of such migration as if it had been free movement. It was forced and it was a process whose phases are still continuing. We always wonder when people talk of 11 years as a long time to undo the results of these tax laws that I have mentioned, whose purpose was to deal the black citizens a heavy blow for generations to come. These types of migration ended up inviting other neighbouring countries to succumb and South African mines and industries became the answers. In the meantime, there was no development in the areas from where these migrant labourers came. The regime of the day had no intention to develop such areas, for fear of resistance by labourers to selling their labour power far from their homes, and money became the key to getting whatever a person needed. If we as parliamentarians think of running away from this background and cloud intercountry migration with other issues, we will fail to come forward with proper development designed to redress the past, thus halving poverty and achieving the UN millennium goals as a whole, including our own South African Vision 2014. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 42 of 141 I am coming to the international migration, which the IPU report speaks about. Migration has always been a feature of human life. Moving from place to place in search of means of subsistence or to escape a strong foe, men and women, since time immemorial, have spread over the greater part of the earth‘s surface. Within recorded history, human migration has transformed the entire aspect of lands and continents, and the racial, ethnic and linguistic composition of their inhabitants. Why then do we now, as a globe, need to say that migration is a problem, while it was not a problem in the past for a few just to take over other people‘s land, wealth, dignity, etc? It is a problem because there are few or no proper systems in place to control this outstanding feature of human life, if it has to be budgeted for. The IPU has to review, strengthen and establish laws and systems that control this human feature. Failure to do this, will lead to some superpowers creating scenarios that do not exist in order for them to be able to invade other countries and create wealth for themselves, thus migrating to such countries on a so-called ―official permit to bring about peace and stability‖. If such control measures are not in place with regard to international migration, coupled with a calculated, well-planned approach to the economic development of the areas that were left underdeveloped due to colonisation and the exploitation of Third 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 43 of 141 World countries‘ wealth, etc, we shall forever have to occupy our minds with terms such as xenophobia, brain drain, feminisation of migration, increased number of migrant children, etc. We need to look at this within the context of the causes and challenges we are faced with. As a globe, across the lines of First and Third Worlds, first and second economies, etc, we are faced with sophisticated challenges based on this migration and development. With regard to animal migration, due to the environmental situation, generations to come may not know some of the animal species we have now, due to the unprofessional migration of people who have the skills to breed animals; not spending time on nature, the environment and sustainability; diseases that are carried because animals are not quarantined, and that sometimes remain undiscovered at the time of migration; and opportunities that result from migration. Even when well-controlled systems are in place, a number of opportunities exist, including the following: exchange of skills, exposure to different cultures, exposure to different ways of life, economic boosts by outsiders during conducive months, summer for summerweather lovers and winter for winterweather lovers. As regards interethnic relations, we are faced with a number of threats, which the document from the IPU describes, but not as 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 44 of 141 threats. If there is continued noncommittal by different parliaments to set up proper systems or control measures with regard to migration and the causes of such migration, long-term sustainable development will always be an unreachable dream. The following are some of these threats: one, lack of analysis of the different root causes of migration; two, lack of comprehensive approaches and coherent migration policies at different levels; three, nonexistence of a political united challenge internationally to deal with migration in a sustainable way; four, vulnerable groups such as women, children and people with disabilities can easily become perpetual slaves of sex, labour, exploitation, etc; five, humanitarian agencies which are not monitored by anyone can easily become the messiahs in times of panic by migrants - the damage remains unrecorded as some of these humanitarian agencies are also involved in illegal activities; six, discrimination against unknown unintroduced foreigners will yield negative results in times of tensions; seven, lack of protected human rights of all stakeholders; eight, a soft approach by the UN to its member countries which, though signatories to the UN, failed to sign the 1990 International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of all Migrant Workers and Member Families - it is said that only 25 out of 191 states are signatories, so really, we need to take this seriously; nine, lack of legal and regulated methods for migration; and lastly, the lazily addressed economic gap between rich and poor and the serious structural deficiencies of the developing countries. If we continue 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 45 of 141 reasoning so lazily on dealing with this gap, it will really be a threat to us. I just want to take all of us back a bit when it comes to the white population in South Africa. We in the ANC have not forgotten that, after the fall of the Soviet Union, Pik Botha and other apartheid leaders went to Eastern Europe to recruit white migrants to come and live in South Africa in order to increase the white population. One wonders what legal monitoring devices were put in place with regard to this expansion beyond recognition from which we are still suffering. I thank you. Go and think as parliamentarians about the delegation that is going to come from this Parliament. Let us stop howling, because when you are outside South Africa, you become so soft. All these countries challenge you and one feels embarrassed when you do not howl as you do here. Enjoy this warmth, and the delegation that is going to be elected should sit together and stop thinking you are this and that. Study and go out with a united voice from the Parliament of South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.] Debate concluded. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOUSING - OVERSIGHT VISIT TO GAUTENG PROVINCE 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 46 of 141 Ms Z A KOTA: Chairperson, Ministers, comrades and colleagues, I greet you this afternoon in this important debate. Our committee is honoured to have women of substance in its portfolio committee. These achievers are Mildred Ramakabanisia, who received the order of Chief Albert Luthuli, and Mama Ngele who received the award by the Tshwane Municipality. This event was celebrated on 24 August at the Ministerial residence. We thank the Minister of Housing for opening doors to the portfolio committee that evening, but on a sad note, on behalf of the portfolio committee we wish the Minister‘s spokesperson Sandile Dikeni a speedy recovery. He was involved in a car accident. He graced that occasion by reciting a poem, so we wish him a speedy recovery. In this debate we wish to bring to this House the experiences of the Housing Portfolio Committee on their visit to Gauteng. We are here to share a wealth of information with the House in order to improve the lives of the people for the better. It has also became very clear during that visit that housing delivery in Gauteng is on track, and that the leadership of the MEC 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 47 of 141 of housing, Comrade Nomvula Mokoanyane, does have a positive impact on fast-tracking housing delivery. What was also clear was that the co-ordination of the three spheres of government was invisible, and it was committed in implementing the vision of the Freedom Charter. It is clear that houses are delivered in Gauteng with great speed. The objective of the visit was to assess whether the breaking of new ground strategy has indeed taken off in this province, and what the challenges are, and secondly to look at the provision of basic infrastructure, to assess the quality of housing units provided, in order to see whether the government was getting value for money in the provision of houses, and whether the housing products were indeed designed to bring back their dignity to beneficiaries, whether the housing units where adhering to the norms and standards, as stipulated in the housing code. The purpose of the visit was also to ascertain the working relationship of the three spheres of government in the delivery process. It was also aimed at monitoring the involvement of emerging contractors in the housing delivery process, as well as women contractors. Access to housing and secure accommodation is an integral part of government‘s commitment to reduce poverty and to improve the quality 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 48 of 141 of people‘s lives. The ANC-led government has delivered more than 1,6 million houses to more than 7 million people between 1994 to 2004. During the same period a total of 2,4 million subsidies were approved. I just want to remind this House of the All Media and Products Survey, which was conducted by the SA Advertising Research Foundation that was published by the Sunday Times in 2002. If we recall, in that survey it is stated that it was aimed at measuring the change in the quality of life, since the democratic order was installed. It became clear that since 1994 the government housing programme, has improved the quality of life of many South Africans, and that 60% of South African households own their homes. There has been growth in the total number of homes. The number of home-owners has grown to more than 77%. The most important thing is that in terms of the delivery, the ANC government is giving houses to the very poor. The Minister of Housing, Dr Lindiwe Sisulu, unveiled the comprehensive plan for the development of integrated sustainable human settlement in September 2004. As we know the core principles of that strategy are the following: accelerating delivery of housing as a key strategy for poverty alleviation; utilising the provision of houses as a job creation strategy; ensuring that property can be 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 49 of 141 accessed by all as an asset for wealth creation and empowerment; leveraging growth in the economy, combating crime and promoting social cohesion; using housing development to break barriers between the first economy residential property boom, and the second economy slump; utilising housing as an instrument for the development of sustainable human settlements in support of spatial restructuring; and diversifying housing products by placing emphasis on rental stock. What is meant by sustainable human settlement? It means that housing delivery can become a catalyst for creating sustainable human settlement. Through housing, people can have access to water, electricity, sanitation, clinics and bulk infrastructure. In fact, the housing challenge ceases to be just a question of the number of units delivered each year, but that housing delivery and habitation are translated into a vehicle to achieve multi goals and outcomes over and above the requirements for shelter. Sustainability in housing and human settlement can be understood in terms of four pillars, which support sustainable development. We state that projects should address environmental challenges, they should generate economic empowerment, they should enhance social capital, and they should build institutional capacity. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 50 of 141 The visit to Gauteng, therefore, helped the committee to understand to what extent the province was aligning itself to the breaking of new ground strategy as unveiled by the Minister. On the first day of the visit we paid a courtesy visit to the national Department of Housing in Pretoria, where we were welcomed by Mr Dlabantu, the now deputy director general, as the Minister and the DG were busy with the Iran delegation. We received a briefing on the MTEF and several programmes of the department. MEC Nomvula Mokoanyane hosted us over breakfast in a hotel the following day. She briefed us at the official department. The committee was taken around Gauteng for a visit to a number of projects. The ANC members will deal in detail with these projects. We then proceeded to visit housing institutions, namely the NAHFC, the NHBRC, and the Social Housing Foundation. All these institutions and the department said to us that they are aligning themselves with the strategy. It was very clear from the report that they were meeting the targets in line with the strategy itself. When we visited the projects, it was clear that the project managers in those projects were women. That was very positive in Gauteng. We have also found out that, especially in places like Bekkersdal, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 51 of 141 women where involved in the housing delivery process, particularly in the developing of the economy. We also welcome what the MEC has done in this month of August, by delivering title deeds to elderly women in Orange Farm. We have also noted the delivery of housing for the month of August in Protea Glen. Ndifuna ukuthi ke nangona besindwendwele eRhawutini besingezo ndwendwe nje, kodwa besibonisa into yokuba u-ANC uyazakha izindlu jikelele eMzantsi Afrika. Besibonisa ukuba amandla alo mbutho anjani na ekwakheni izindlu, singulo rhulumente wesininzi nowentando yabantu. Olo hambo lwaseRhawutini lubonise ukuba urhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC unenkathalo ngabantu kwaye uyazakha izindlu. Baninzi abantu abafumene izindlu nabafumene imisebenzi ngethuba lokwakhiwa kwazo. Okona kubalulekileyo kukuba apho kwakhiwa khona izindlu kubekho iivenkile, izikolo, iikliniki kunye namaholo ukwenzela ukuba abantu babe nobomi obungcono. Urhulumente akanakwakha zindlu eyedwa. Kuyafuneka ukuba bancedisane naye oongxowa-nkulu, imibutho yabahlali kunye nabantu. Sicela ukuba wonke umntu abe negalelo ekwakhiweni kwezindlu kuba ekwakheni ezi zindlu, sakha noluntu. Sifuna wonke umntu athi: ‗Nam ndibe negalelo ekuvezeni impilo engcono ebantwini endihlala nabo.‘ Xa ndiza kuhlala phantsi, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 52 of 141 kubalulekile ukuba ndiyicacise phandle into yokuba siyi-ANC siyayixhasa into yokuba izindlu zakhiwe kufutshane neendawo abasebenza kuzo abantu. Ikwabalulekile into yokuba izindlu zakhiwe phaya ezidolophini. Xa kusakhiwa izindlu, . . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.) [I would like to let you know that when we visited Gauteng, we were not just visitors but we were there to prove to people that the ANC is committed to building houses for the whole of South Africa. We, as the ANC, were showing how powerful we are and how committed to providing housing for the people. The visit to Gauteng proved that the ANC-led government cares about its people. Many people received houses and jobs through the government housing project. It is important that housing development is placed where there are shops, schools, clinics and city halls in order for people to access services that would better their lives. Government alone could never succeed in achieving its goal of providing housing for everybody. We appeal for every other person‘s support and contribution because in the process, we are building a community and a nation. We would be happy if everybody could say: ‗I made my contribution towards the betterment of other people of my community.‘ It is important, before I take my seat, to mention that the ANC supports the view that houses should be built closer to workplaces and where 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 53 of 141 there are social amenities. It is also important that housing development is done closer to the city. During this process . . . ] . . . inxenye yalo naluphina uphuhliso kufuneka ibe nesiqingatha esingamashumi amabini ekhulwini esibekelwe izindlu zabanemivuzo ephantsi ngoba ibalulekile into yokuba siqale ukumanya uluntu lwethu abangekho zidolophini, phaya koomaBishop‘s Court ukuze ibe ngoongxowa-nkulu bodwa abahlala kwezo ndawo. Nabantu bethu mabakwazi ukuhlala kuzo. Siyaphinda siyagxininisa ekubeni xa kusenziwa uphuhliso nokuba kuphaya emabaleni egalufa, amashumi amabini ekhulwini . . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [A portion of every development should consist of at least 20%, which is geared for low-income houses, because it is critical that we begin to integrate our communities and not leave the cities and towns and urban areas such as Bishop‘s Court for the affluent people. Our people should be able to live in these areas. We would like to emphasise that 20% of the proceeds of development of areas such as gold courses, . . . ] . . . should be put aside to build these low-income houses so that . . . . . . . abantu bafikelele kwezi ndawo. Masimbone urhulumente eyiphelisa into yokuba ilokishi ibezindawo ezihluphekileyo lo gama ezidolophini kukuhle kakhulu. Ngako oko ke urhulumente okhokelwa yi- 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 54 of 141 ANC uyayivuma into yokuba abantu bethu ngoku mababuyele ezidolophini. Mabaye kuhlala kwindawo ezikufutshane nemisebenzi yabo. Yiyo loo nto singulo rhulumente we-ANC sibambisene neemibutho yabantu. Sizama ukuba abantu bethu babuyele kundalashe apho babehlala khona kooma- District Six, nakooma-Kensington, ukwenzela ukuba kweli xesha sikulo sibonise ukuba asinguye laa rhulumente wocalucalulo kodwa singowentando yesininzi. Sifuna ke ukugoba umqolo. Enkosi [Laphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.) [ . . . people can get access. Government should stop treating townships like poor areas whilst concentrating on making urban centres more beautiful. The ANC-led government encourages people to live in urban areas. They need to live closer to their workplaces. It is for that reason that we work closely and in collaboration with civil society and community organisations as the ANC-led government. We are keen to prove that we are a democratic government by allowing people to go and establish their homes in areas such as District Six and Kensington, where they used to live before the forced removals. We are committed to that. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]] Mr A C STEYN: Chairperson, the report we are supposed to be debating today deals with the committee‘s very first oversight visit and it 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 55 of 141 occurred almost one year ago. It started off with a visit to the offices of the national Department of Housing in Pretoria, where we were given an overview of the various programmes of the department. For me, the highlights of that particular visit were - perhaps due to the fact that I am familiar with the various programmes of the department - the major upgrading and renovations that were in progress at the department‘s offices, and the state-of-the-art communication and IT systems that were either being installed or had already been completely installed. The conference room we used on that particular occasion had already been completed and it took the best part of 30 to 45 minutes for the officials to find somebody who knew how the new equipment operated before we could get started. I trust that those teething problems have been resolved and that all the new equipment will contribute towards greater efficiency in the department. Day two kicked off with a breakfast meeting with the MEC and we had a meeting with the standing committee at the Gauteng legislature. This was followed by a visit to Alexandra Township after a briefing on the Alexandra Renewal Project. This project, which started off as a presidential pilot project some years ago, and was once considered a flagship project in Gauteng, is unfortunately being dogged by controversy, which has tainted what could have been a benchmark project for South Africa. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 56 of 141 The reasons for this are varied, but primary amongst them, I believe, is the lack of leadership. This project has probably had half a dozen or so project managers since its inception, some skilled and others clearly not up to the job. However, one of the challenges raised with the committee by the MEC as well as other role-players and spelt out in the report was the lack of co-operation and participation by other provincial departments – so much for all the talk about integrated development within government departments! The other major challenge was the lack of funding from national level. Perhaps it is appropriate that I therefore take this opportunity to formally request that a tiny portion of the funds earmarked by government for Zimbabwe be channelled to this very worthy project, in order to improve the working conditions for the people of South Africa. It was encouraging to meet women contractors on site and simultaneously very disappointing to learn that some administrative shortcomings that were identified some two years prior to our visit had still not been sorted out. I refer here, of course, to the fact that a major problem with this project has been late payments to contractors and other service providers. This has led to emerging contractors and other SMMEs involved in the project being unable to 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 57 of 141 fulfil their financial obligations as one particular woman contractor testified. In this instance, the MEC agreed to take this matter up and it would be interesting to know if this chronic problem has been resolved. The lack of consumer education is often mentioned as a stumbling block in the delivery of services. Beneficiaries of government‘s social programmes are generally not aware of their rights or obligations related to such benefits. As an MP from Gauteng it was therefore with pride that I attended, together with the committee, the launch of a consumer education programme, which coincided with our visit. On day three we were introduced to another redevelopment project in Gauteng, the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project. This project was still very much at its planning stage and it appeared that closer co-operation between departments was indeed taking place on this project. Our committee was once again fortunate in that our visit coincided with the opening ceremony of the Bekkersdal information hub. However, community members expressed concern over the slow progress made with regard to housing delivery concerning this project and lack of employment opportunities specifically for community members. Day four was spent visiting social housing projects within the boundaries of the Ekurhuleni and Johannesburg metropolitan councils. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 58 of 141 What was interesting was that one of the projects hailed by Ekurhuleni as a success story appeared to be occupied largely by beneficiaries not meant to benefit from this subsidised housing. We had the opportunity to physically inspect some of the units. Judging from the appliances and other furnishings, the occupants were clearly in a higher income bracket than what was required. This was also evident from the vehicles in the residence parking areas – some of those were of German origin. I wonder if this could be the reason that this development is a success story. Some residents had a much higher income than the maximum required to qualify and this therefore leads to a much lower default rate. However, if this situation is not monitored, controlled and rectified, the flip side is that the more deserving tenant is denied access to state-subsidised housing. There are a number of recommendations at the end of this report. In hindsight, it would have been fitting for us to remark on the progress made regarding these recommendations in this debate, almost one year later. Perhaps, hon Kota, the committee should review all recommendations made to date and follow up on their implementation. I thank you. [Applause.] Mmz D C MABENA: Sihlalo, aboNgqongqotjhe abahloniphekileko, malunga aqakathekileko wePalamende, kulithabo kimi njengelunga le-ANC ukuba 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 59 of 141 nezwi ngomma onomhlane obanzi nonebele elimunyisa woke amaSewula Afrika, ngitjho i-Gauteng province. Lapho kunetjhuguluko elinengi empilweni zabantu ekade batlhaga ngaphasi kombuso wegandelelo. I-Alexandra ngenye yeendawo lapho kusabonakala khona umtlhago ngebanga lombuso omdala. Izindlu ezakhiwa ngurhulumende wakade ziyawa ngombana abantu abanandawo, nokufuna umsebenzi babona kugcono ukwakha imikhukhu endaweni enye nenye evulekileko ngenkolweni, duze ne-Jukskei River, London Road, lapho kulahlelwa khona iinzibi e- S‘tswetla nalapho kukhanjwa khona nca nendlela. Umthetho-sisekelo weSewula Afrika isigatjana 26 Act 108 of 1996 uthi woke umuntu kulengabanda yakwethu unelungelo lokuba nomrhoswana wakhe ocalekako. Umbuso weGauteng province ukulingisa ubutjhapho begandelelo weza ne-Alexandra Renewal Project, ebukufanele ithathe itjhumi leminyaka kodwa wazibophelela ngokuthi izayiqeda ngo-2009, kwabakhona neengibe endleleni. (Translation of Ndebele paragraphs follows.) [Mr D C MABENA: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members of Parliament, it‘s a pleasure for me as a member of the ANC to say a word about the Gauteng province which is the engine of the economy and has the power to feed all South Africans. There are remarkable changes in the lives of people who were afflicted by poverty under the previous government. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 60 of 141 Alexandra is one of the areas where poverty is still prevalent because of the previous government. Houses that were built by the previous government are falling apart and people do not have a place to stay. When searching for employment they find that it is better to build a shack where they find a vacant piece of land which close to the schools, near to the Jukskei River or London Road, at e- S‘tswetla dumping site and on pavements. Section 26 of the Constitution of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, stipulates that everyone has the right to adequate housing. To rectify the damage caused by the apartheid government the Gauteng government launched the Alexandra Renewal Project, that was supposed to be completed in the next ten years but the government committed itself to completing the project in the year 2009. Noticeable challenges have been encountered in the process.] Some of the challenges included the following: different programmes in the department were not talking to one another, thus not maximising the impact with regards to work; inconsistent funding; change of faces from communities themselves, in terms of community participation; and scarcity of land. To speed up this process and delivery, the province decided upon one political head to lead and that was the workaholic MEC for housing in Gauteng. In order to accommodate 350 000 people within greater Alexandra, steps that were taken included the establishment of a consortium 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 61 of 141 that assists small and emerging local contractors and their capacitation. This consortium also ensures that they are absorbed into the building labour market. Abanye sebaba ngabo somakontraka abazijameleko. [Some have become well-established contractors.] Another step taken was to ensure that there should be a proper representation of all the people of Alexandra, young and old. Ukwakhiwa kwe-London Road bridge kuphilile, abangu 2 000 ababehlala eduze ne-London Road banikelwe izindlu zabo, abangu 5 500 ababehlala duze ne-Juskei River basusiwe kuleyo ndawo eyingozi bayiswa eSoweto. [The construction of the London Road Bridge has been completed, 2000 people who were living near London Road have been given their houses, and 5 500 people who were staying near the Jukskei River have been moved from that dangerous area to Soweto.] Beautiful parks have been built along the banks of the river and 2 000 trees donated by Trees for Africa have been planted along the river bank and East Bank townships, and existing dwellings are being upgraded. Other activities include redevelopment of hostels, development of affordable rental accommodation and conversion of hostels into family units, that is Helen Joseph, M1 and M2, where we met Mrs Melita Raseale – a woman contractor who was on duty. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 62 of 141 This programme will improve the lives of 3 286 households and, most importantly, integrate them into the surrounding areas. There is also a transit facility that has been developed to accommodate households that are being relocated out of Alexandra who qualify for housing benefits but whose houses are not yet ready. South Africa belongs to all who live in it. There are remnants of pressure groupings of no particular origin who need not be supported by South Africans. They always misconstrue the government‘s reallocation processes as forced removals and always try to give this initiative negative publicity, for example the relocation of people from Alexandra to Soweto. The Ekurhuleni Metro – which has a population of 744 000, 112 informal settlements and 122 000 families – has vowed to eradicate homelessness and informal settlements by 2014. One of the challenges the metro faces is people who sell their RDP houses and thus increase the housing backlog. The increase in the rate of urbanisation leads to land invasion and densification of the existing informal settlements. Twelve settlements have been redesigned to allow for densification using the Gauteng province‘s community builder programme, which is in line with the Expanded Public Works Programme. Women, youth and the disabled have benefited. About 1 400 houses have been delivered 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 63 of 141 and it is hoped that the programme will eradicate informal settlements within eight years. Forty-nine disabled persons have been allocated houses with special facilities and 600 Harry Gwala residents have been relocated to Chief Albert Luthuli Park Extension 4. Extension 4 consists of 1 514 stands and will accommodate people from the surrounding informal settlements of Egypt, Beachfront and Emandleni. The community builder programme will be used to put up top structures and it is another tool for job creation and skills transfer. At Nelson Mandela settlement, work has began on upgrading informal structures in Extension 23 and 24, and 3 312 people in Madelakufa 1 and 2 have been registered at the metro as approved beneficiaries. In Freedom Park, 1 054 people have been registered. Vusimuzi hostel in Tembisa has been converted into family units. Khutsong women‘s hostel and Buyafuthi hostel have been upgraded into affordable rental stock. Soshanguve hostel, in Tshwane, is 95% complete and the building is ongoing. Saulsville is 60% complete and 50% of the builders are women contractors. It has been named as the best practice project. Mohlakeng, in Randfontein municipality, Kagiso, in Mogale city and Diepkloof, in Johannesburg will start soon. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 64 of 141 Mogale city is currently relocating families to 4 400 stands where the infrastructure for essential services has been completed in Rietvlei 3. A total of 963 toilet structures have been completed in record time at Tsepong proper in the Sebokeng area, and this work was done by a woman contractor. The installation of top structures will be commencing soon. During 2004-05 Mogale city delivered 2 300 houses. Other developments are in Mamelodi Extension 5,6 and 22. Lastly, the transfer of state-owned houses under the discount benefit scheme is progressing fairly. Transfers are taking place in all regions of Gauteng. Because Africon delayed the process, the system is now being done in-house. There is an 80% success rate in beneficiary education by way of workshops. Mogale city has incorporated a youth learnership programme into housing, and 200 youths are undergoing training in building skills and housing co- operatives. Ngiyathokoza. [Thank you.] [Applause.] Mr B W DHLAMINI: Chairperson, hon members, the report that we are considering today on the provincial oversight visit to Gauteng and other provinces on the provision of housing has highlighted successes and challenges. Owing to the fact that we are dealing with more than 40 years of housing backlogs left by the late National Party, we should not be allergic to constructive criticism and feedback that we get from these visits, like the proper allocation of the RDP housing, quality of housing, nondelivery and other instances. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 65 of 141 In Gauteng there are three urban renewal projects, Alexandra, Bekkersdal and Everton. The nature of these interventions is such that challenges and difficulties are to be expected and the challenge is not to politically sweep them under the carpet but to deal with them as they arise as we have witnessed in the Gauteng province. The Premier of Gauteng has committed his government that by 2008 all 52 public hostels will be either totally converted into family units or upgraded into self-contained units with privacy and restored dignity of its residents. For this financial year the MEC for housing in Gauteng, Ms Mokoanyane, has committed her department to complete 5 000 units. While this is recommendable, the only concern to the IFP is the practical implementation, given the lack of capacity in some municipalities, as was mentioned by members here. Hostels should be part and parcel of the broader community and not be little islands. I think the problem here, most especially with hostel upgrading, is the integrated development strategy. It is not only the baby of the Department of Housing. I think the Department of Provincial and Local Government should come in, more specifically for infrastructure. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 66 of 141 The mushrooming of residential areas with no economic development is also a concern. If you look at Gauteng from Soweto to Everton- Vereeniging, there is the development of residential areas with no economic development for people to be able to work around their areas. People in Orange Farm should be employed in Vereeniging and Johannesburg. Their money is being spent on transport, more than on other necessities. We think there should be economic development that accompanies residential development. With these few comments, we support the report. Thank you. [Applause.] Ms N J NGELE: “Kuya kuba kho izindlu, ukhuseleko nobuntofontofo.” Mhlalingaphambili nabakungqongileyo, bhotani. [―There shall be houses, security and comfort.‖ Chairperson and hon members, I salute you.] As South Africans, we will always be grateful to President Kaunda for the immeasurable support he provided to our struggle for liberation. Zambia was our home and as such South Africa is your home. Given the contribution that Nepad plays in supporting the upliftment of the people of the African continent, it is not surprising to see such projects, such as the UN Habitat, initiated by Comrade Kaunda. Asilo qonga lokubalisa iintsomi eli ndimi kulo. Bonke abantu abangenazindlu eMzantsi Afrika baza kuba nazo. EPitoli kukho iziza ezingama-760. Yonke enye into sele yenziwe, abantu baza kwakhelwa. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 67 of 141 Siyambulela uMphathiswa wezeZindlu ngokunika abantu isidima ngokuthi abanike izindlu. Ewe, izindlu ezakhiweyo azikho mgangathweni, kodwa ngenxa yeqhinga elibizwa ngesilungu ngokuba yi-breaking new ground, abantu baza kufumana izindlu ezisemgangathweni. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.) [This podium on which I am standing, is not a platform to tell stories. All the people who do not have houses in South Africa are going to have houses. There are 760 sites in Pretoria. All other outstanding issues have been addressed, and people will be allocated houses. We thank the Minister of Housing for restoring the dignity of the people by providing houses for them. Yes, it is correct that the houses that were erected are not up to standard, however, as a consequence of the new diplomacy, which is referred to in English as ―breaking new ground‖, people are going to get decent houses.] The housing challenge in this country is immense and is an undeniable legacy of the previous system of apartheid. Many experiences have been gained and many lessons learnt. As the ANC we are on the right track as we are translating the 2004 manifesto into reality. The contract we entered into with our people to create work and fight poverty is making a difference in a big way. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 68 of 141 Through our struggle as the ANC, we can say today: South Africa is a democratic country, with a government based on the will of all the people. The rights of women are recognised and find increasing expression in real life. We are building a caring nation as the ANC and the dignity of our people is restored. This is true, as millions of our people renew the mandate of the ANC to do more on delivery to the poorest of the poor. The DA may not notice the difference that the ANC is making to the ordinary people of this country. [Interjections.] Don‘t shout at me. I have never shouted at you. Talk to me. [Interjections.] The DA, I repeat, will not notice the difference that the ANC is making to the ordinary poor people of this country, because they have been enjoying the privileges that our people were denied. And that is true. Through housing provision, many jobs are created and this is better than what you gave them - if you ever gave them anything. Through housing many jobs are created, and this makes a direct contribution to the second economy. Women are involved in construction companies and this is what we in the ANC call a better life for all. [Interjections.] Phendula! Ngowuthula wena! [Respond! You are supposed to keep quiet!] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 69 of 141 Women have been marginalised for a very long time, hence the ANC is doing something concrete about this. Improvements in the quality of life of our people require that we take measure to increase the volume and quality of the investment in infrastructure. To make sure that our freedom becomes meaningful to our people, we must translate the Freedom Charter into reality. In the past 11 years the ANC-led government has managed to build more than a million houses, and in this programme, other services like water, electricity and sanitation were delivered. As the ANC we have called on our people to join in a popular movement for reconstruction and development, run on the basis of the traditional African practices of the Letsima and Vukuzenzele campaigns. In doing so, we are building more houses to accommodate the poor people of our country, whom our oppressors had treated as disposable commodities. [Interjections.] Are you one of them? I didn‘t know. I was not aware. Thank you for answering. It is true by engaging in the people‘s contract we are faced with many challenges, which require a sustained effort over an extended period of time. In this debate we are showing the projects that the ANC-led government is engaged in to make the lives of our people better. As the ANC we are committed to building for women, because we believe that it is through creating a secure living environment for women that we provide a home for the young of this country. Ultimately, we are convinced that the home is where we plant the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 70 of 141 seeds of the kind of society we are dreaming of. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Ms S N SIGCAU: Chairperson, the UDM supports the recommendations in the report of the Portfolio Committee on Housing, following their oversight visit to Gauteng province. The need for members to have access to information on housing to distribute to their constituencies is self-evident. As far as the failure of the IDP initiative in Alexandra is concerned, we find it disturbing that not all departments are taking their roles seriously. We concur that the matter should not only be raised in this House but also referred to the interministerial committee. Often the lack of co-ordination and integration among various departments is the biggest stumbling block to the implementation of worthwhile policies. Such an undermining of service delivery is unacceptable and unavoidable. The issue of land release remains a problem in the country in general. This is very sensitive, with many complexities. In conclusion, the difficulties of high rental and the allocation to beneficiaries require further attention. Many of the people that should benefit do not benefit. Thank you, Chairperson. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 71 of 141 Mr T S DODOVU: Mr Chairperson, hon members of Parliament, during the first decade of democracy, housing policies have evolved to address the housing challenges, to build quality housing and to establish compact integrated cities, which work towards desegregation and high density mixed use development. These challenges include the enormous size of the housing deficit, the proliferation of informal settlements, the failure of the housing markets, the inability to mobilise mortgage finance as well as the problems associated with urbanisation and population growth. In order to ameliorate this situation and address these daunting challenges, we are proud that our government has put in place the proper legislative and policy instruments, which are unprecedented in our history. Maemo a kenyeletsa ho neelana ka disubsidy ho batho ba rona ho etsa hore matlo ao e leng hore a ahwa ke mmuso wa rona, ke a loketseng batho ba rona, le ho thusa batho ba batlang ho ikahela matlo. [These include the granting of subsidies to people to make housing affordable to them, and to assist those who would like to build their own houses.] These instruments also include the establishment of housing institutions like the National Housing Finance Corporation, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 72 of 141 Thubelisha Homes, Servcon Housing Solutions, the Social Housing Foundation, the National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency, as well as the National Home Builders Registration Council. These institutions are important because they facilitate much-needed capacity development within the housing sector, and they also act as secondary housing market and wholesale facilities for the housing finance system. During its visit to the Gauteng province, the Portfolio Committee on Housing had the opportunity to interact with some of these housing institutions. In addition to these measures, the ANC-led government has adopted the Urban Development Framework and the new housing strategy called ―breaking new ground‖, which is a plan that seeks to build settlements for good human habitation and to indeed build communities in these settlements. Our visit to Bekkersdal, as part of the parliamentary oversight role, has reinforced our conviction that the people, once empowered, can make an important contribution to the improvement of their own living conditions. The degree of openness and friendliness with which we were received by the Bekkersdal political and community leadership, reflected a sincere and deep-rooted wish for the successful implementation of the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project. The Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project should be seen in the context of the epic battles that the community of Bekkersdal has waged in 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 73 of 141 the destruction of the system of apartheid and colonialism. The people of Bekkersdal, under the able leadership of Thomas Letlhake, A T Thubela and Jackson Nkuna, made an immense and immeasurable contribution in destroying the vicious doctrine of race supremacy. With a budget of about R1,2 million, the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project seeks to resettle close to 18 000 families who live in informal settlements. It seeks to eradicate the bucket system, which is a health hazard to the communities, and it seeks to expand the skills capacity of the people. Most importantly, the renewal project seeks to create job opportunities in the wake of job losses because of declining mining activity in the area. Once the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project is successfully implemented, it will integrate the town of Westonaria to negate the apartheid-induced segregation, fragmentation and inequality. It will focus on integrated planning, rebuilding and upgrading of Bekkersdal Township and its informal settlements. The Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project will improve housing and infrastructure. It will alleviate environmental hazards, encourage investment in Bekkersdal, and increase access to finance, social development, and the building of habitable and safe communities. This project will indeed maintain safety and security, and design habitable urban communities. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 74 of 141 When the portfolio committee visited Bekkersdal, it realised that the promotion of economic development was an important cornerstone of the urban renewal project. In this regard, the project aims at enhancing the capacity of Bekkersdal, to build on the local strength to generate greater local economic activity, to achieve sustainability, to alleviate poverty, to increase access to informal economic opportunities, and to maximise direct employment opportunities, and the multiplier effect from implementing the development project. To this end, our visit coincided with the opening of the Bekkersdal information hub by the MEC for housing in Gauteng, Ms Nomvula Mokoanyane. This information hub already serves as a resource centre for the community. Notwithstanding the good work done in this regard, there are, however, weaknesses in the implementation of the project, and these need immediate attention. These weaknesses include the slow delivery of the project, poor co-ordination and communication between the municipality and the provincial government, lack of skills and the lack of clarity on the roles and responsibilities of different stakeholders. It is of paramount importance, therefore, to put measures in place to address these challenges. In the memory of Thomas Letlhake, A T Thubela, and Jackson Nkuna, and in recognition of the immense 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 75 of 141 contribution that they made, the Gauteng government and the Westonaria municipality has to be seized with the resolutions of these issues, and successfully implement the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project. Municipalities like Merafong, Potchefstroom, Makwasi Hill, Ventersdorp and Klerksdorp, can learn from these experiences and emulate the example of the Bekkersdal Urban Renewal Project. There are many deficiencies in the analysis of the DA in terms of how they are moving with these particular issues. In dealing with these complex matters, the DA has unfortunately chosen the path of pandering to populism, by attempting to discredit, undermine, and ridicule the good work that the ANC government is doing in this regard. The DA always projects a picture of might and arrogance. Partly, it is the face of most oppressors in human history, partly it is to conceal that they must know that their strategy in the long run is doomed. Sooner or later, the DA will explode. The collapse of their strategy will unfortunately be enhanced by its own contradictions. Our priority in the circumstances should be to attend to these housing challenges, despite what the right-wing parties like the DA are doing by broadcasting propaganda, unashamedly based on gross falsification. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 76 of 141 By directing these vitriolic attacks and laying these unfounded charges, they merely want to pose as the sole genuine representatives of the people. These hostile inventions directed against the ANC are created so that the DA can be seen to represent the genuine progressive agenda, while the ANC is bent on betraying the cause of the revolution, by not providing adequate housing to the poor. The hon member of the DA, unfortunately, should not go around carrying the notion in his head that the DA has a special responsibility to be a competent watchdog over the ANC government, thinking that we will sit in helpless surrender, leaving us as nothing but instruments in the hands of whoever is controlling us. We have a responsibility to defend the ANC against this onslaught of the DA, because we are on course to ensure that we direct all our efforts in terms of making sure that we succeed. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.] Mr T LIKOTSI: Deputy Speaker, the housing report as tabled here raises a broad debate on the challenges faced in this respect. We appreciate attempts made by government to address this matter, although at a snail‘s pace. This brings us to the question of considering the type and quality of houses we build. The Gauteng province is the worst affected province in terms of badly built houses, both in nature and quality. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 77 of 141 It is the province with the most and the worst informal settlements a person can think of. A few examples of this are houses in Duduza, Orange Farm, Bram Fischer, etc. This challenge of housing must be tackled head-on if we are to live a nonviolent life in our areas. I want, without any fear of contradiction, to agree with Minister Lindiwe Sisulu that the municipalities and provinces are failing the nation in the low pace of housing delivery, and that housing must be a national competency. This may improve the acceleration of human settlement and entrench the principle of accountability. There is a vast difference between quantity and quality. We choose quality. [Applause.] Mr R B BHOOLA: Madam Deputy Speaker, the report and its recommendations display the committee‘s observations and concern about the development of housing and enable the department to identify successes and loopholes in its delivery. We are especially glad that these visits also sought to monitor the involvement of women in the housing delivery process. In view of this, it is felt that the recommendations made could greatly benefit housing in the Gauteng province. We find it necessary that the suggested housing brochures be made available to us, so that we may return to our constituencies with the necessary information as to successes, the targets being met and 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 78 of 141 loopholes being addressed. This would allow for transparency and confidence in delivery. The speeding up of land release is also supported. The MF supports the IDP issue regarding stakeholders being taken up by the House. As far as the funding issue in Bekkersdal and Alexandra is concerned, we agree that it needs to be speeded up so that delivery is made possible. The MF supports the follow-up visit to Bekkersdal, noting the committee‘s pending issues in the area. We firmly agree that the necessary skills need to be localised for housing in the area. Further, we acknowledge the portfolio committee‘s note on the poverty trap with regard to Bekkersdal, and we feel that this needs to be addressed urgently as we want to get out of poverty, not back into it. I thank you. Mr G D SCHNEEMANN: Deputy Speaker, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, comrades and hon members, since 1994 over 370 000 houses have been built in Gauteng. Today over 90% of households have access to water; 80% have access to basic sanitation; 73% have access to electricity; and 80% have access to weekly refuse removal. In addition, during the period 1994 to 2003, 295 000 stands were serviced and 277 000 houses were transferred. By June of 2004, the living conditions of some 2,5 million people had been positively 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 79 of 141 enhanced through the housing delivery programme in Gauteng. This was the situation in October 2004 and, today, almost a year later, there has been considerable progress in delivering housing and basic services. The Gauteng department of housing has taken the necessary steps to ensure that the housing delivery programme in the province is in line with the ―breaking new ground‖ strategy announced by Minister Sisulu in 2004. It has also committed itself to ensuring that no informal settlements exist in Gauteng by 2014. This clearly indicates the advances that have been and will be made in improving the living conditions of Gauteng residents. It also tangibly demonstrates the care and compassion that our government has as it continues to improve the living conditions of all South Africans. It is against this background that the statement by the leader of the IFP, the hon Buthelezi, and I quote, ―that many sections of society had a greater empathy with the poor during the apartheid era than the ruling party has now‖, are indeed strange, to say the least. Under the apartheid rule of the then National Party, forced removals took place, displacing countless thousands of people - the majority of whom were African. Separate development took place through the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 80 of 141 Group Areas Act. At times the then National Party demolished more houses than it built. Township areas were far removed and lacked the necessary infrastructure and facilities that help to create a vibrant and sustainable society. This does not represent an empathy with the poor – it represents the exact opposite. When the Portfolio Committee on Housing visited Gauteng last year, the Brickfields housing project in Newtown was under construction and Cosmo City was in the final planning stages. Today, Brickfields is complete, and construction work has started on Cosmo City. Both of these developments represent the ANC commitments made in its 2004 election manifesto to provide more subsidised housing and to introduce medium-density housing closer to places of work. The Brickfields housing project in Johannesburg will provide much- needed rental accommodation units within the city centre. In addition, Brickfields also forms part of the efforts of government to stop the decay of inner cities and, in turn, create vibrant cities where people, both rich and poor, can live and work. The decay of the inner city of Johannesburg started in the 1980s and was allowed to continue under the leadership of the then DP, which is now the DA. It is the ANC-governed Johannesburg Metropolitan Council, together with the Gauteng provincial government, which has taken steps to clean up the mess left behind. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 81 of 141 The first beneficiaries will move shortly to Cosmo City, which is situated near Johannesburg in the area of Randburg. Cosmo City is one of the nine human settlement projects announced by Minister Sisulu, which forms part of the ―breaking new ground‖ strategy. It will comprise some 5 000 low-cost homes, together with bank-financed homes, rental housing, social housing and medium-density housing. Cosmo City will not just comprise rows of homes, but will include all the necessary infrastructure such as roads, water, sanitation and electricity, as well as the necessary social infrastructure such as schools, clinics, sports facilities, police stations and community centres. There is an air of excitement amongst the beneficiaries who come from the Zevenfontein and River Bend informal areas. They have been waiting patiently for the past seven years, whilst local residents‘ associations have tried to do everything in their power to stop them from having the same rights as they do, namely security of tenure and the right to have access to adequate housing. Both Brickfields and Cosmo City give realisation to one of the demands of the Freedom Charter, namely that ―There shall be houses, security and comfort‖. Lawo maqembu angazihlanganisi nomgubho woMqulu weNkululeko asahamba ngendlela endala futhi awanandaba nabantu abahluphekayo. [Ihlombe.] [Those political parties that do not involve themselves in the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 82 of 141 Freedom Charter celebrations are operating in the old order and don‘t care about poor people. [Applause.]] At the opening of the Brickfields development, President Mbeki said the following, and I quote: We have, among others, an urgent challenge of bringing to a stop the prorich housing development strategies that ensure that the best located land that is close to all the best facilities is always available to the rich; a situation where the best land is allocated especially to create gated communities and golf estates, while the poor can only access dusty, semideveloped land far away from modern infrastructure. This statement echoed the statements by Minister Sisulu during her budget speech in this House on 17 May, when she said that all housing developments not subsidised through state funding should allocate 20% of the development to affordable housing. There are some in this House and most notably the DA who have been most vocal in their opposition to the statement of the President, and yet in the Portfolio Committee on Housing have not indicated any view in opposition to what Minister Sisulu announced. Again, they clearly demonstrate their lack of empathy for the poor. Through their opposition, they are saying that the poor, the majority of whom are African, should forever be relegated to the outskirts of 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 83 of 141 city centres and not be allowed to integrate with the rest of society. [Interjections.] It is true. Whilst we have made advances in improving the living conditions of millions of South Africans, we are still faced with the challenge of reducing the estimated backlog of some two million housing units. Whilst we have the correct policies and strategies in place, it is in the implementation phase where we must focus our attention. This entails the commitment of all role-players, including officials who work in the different spheres of government, to ensure that the delivery of housing is increased, that a quality product is produced and that delays are minimised. I-ANC iyobenza njalo ikhuphula abantu baseNingizimu Afrika. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.] [The ANC will continue to uplift South African people. Thank you very much. [Applause.]] Debate concluded. Mrs M M MADUMISE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party: That the report be adopted. Motion agreed to. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 84 of 141 Report accordingly adopted. CONSIDERATION OF REPORTS OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORT AND RECREATION ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO LIMPOPO, MPUMALANGA AND GAUTENG, AND OVERSIGHT VISIT TO FREE STATE AND NORTH WEST Mr C T FROLICK: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, during the course of the year the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation undertook seven visits to the provinces. During this debate we will focus on the visits to Mpumalanga, the North West, Limpopo, Gauteng and the Free State. We are in the process of completing the provincial visits. We will soon be going to the Eastern Cape, and we will complete the visit to the Western Cape. The purpose of these ongoing visits is to measure the readiness of provinces in preparing for the 2010 Soccer World Cup, and to ascertain whether moneys paid by the department to federations in the form of transfer payments reach the clubs they are intended for. The committee also focused on assessing the condition of facilities built by the department through its Building for Sport and Recreation programme and their accessibility to local communities. A key objective of the department is to promote the participation of all South Africans in local and international sport and recreation programmes through its own programmes and that of associated 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 85 of 141 organisations. To achieve this objective, the department introduced a major national mass-participation programme called Siyadlala. The committee conducted in loco visits to centres where the programmes are implemented and was exposed to well-organised events where we met excited participants and volunteers who conduct the programme on behalf of the department. Thousands of citizens from all age groups are participating, and they commended the government for taking this initiative. However, the department must attend to certain challenges, which we encountered and which impact negatively on the programme. This issue will be dealt with later in the debate. Another focus area for the committee was to meet with local sports councils and federations. Concerns must be raised about the lack of support sports councils get from municipalities where they are often viewed as an unnecessary nuisance. This leads to a breakdown in communication between the sports councils and authorities on reaching a common understanding on matters affecting sport. As a result, scarce resources are often misdirected to programmes and projects, which do not have the necessary or desired impact on local communities. The national and provincial departments need to pay specific attention to the serious capacity problems experienced by sports councils. The need exists for the department to develop and implement capacity-building programmes to address this situation. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 86 of 141 The delegation met with several local sports administrators who work from the boots of their cars to run programmes with no back-up support. The membership of sports councils is also an area of concern in that very often citizens from established federations and advantaged communities fail to participate in decision-making processes affecting their lives. We therefore need to reiterate the need for all people, irrespective of their race and social status, to become part of these community forums. Recently we witnessed the establishment of the SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee, Sascoc. This is in line with the recommendations of the ministerial task team, as endorsed by Cabinet in 2003. Sascoc is operating already as an NGO to serve as an umbrella body for high-performance sport and includes affiliates from all sports federations and macro bodies. The committee had an initial meeting with Sascoc and its president, and a few problems were raised during this infancy stage of its operations. Similar problems were raised during the oversight visits to provinces in which stakeholders brought to our attention the uncertainty which prevails at grass-roots level with regard to the future role and responsibility of Sascoc in provinces and the role and impact that it will have on local sports forums. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 87 of 141 Federations and other sports bodies expressed concern about the lack of information and direction from the umbrella body. We must guard against Sascoc becoming a distant structure that takes decisions without the necessary consultation and popular support. The leadership of Sascoc must pay particular attention to the widely held belief that small federations with a dismal transformation record are now in control of the body and pay little attention to devise strategies to address the slow pace of transformation in certain federations. It is noteworthy that none of the major federations serve on the executive committee of Sascoc and, as a result, it is at the mercy of the whims of the small federations, which dominate the leadership. The past 12 years have highlighted the need for overarching policy and legislative formulation for sport. Such legislation will guide all macro bodies, national and provincial federations and clubs on the need to transform sport by making it accessible to all South Africans. The absence of such legislation has created the space for federations to emerge with conflicting agendas and timeframes on the future of sport. The aim must be to provide equal opportunities for all South Africans. Only then we will experience deep transformation. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 88 of 141 Study tours to provinces have also allowed members of the committee to interact with teachers from all communities. The level of uncertainty on the future of school sport amongst them is a source of concern. The future role, function and existence of the United School Sport Association of SA have been under the spotlight for the past few months, especially in the light of the shift in the strategic focus of the Department of Sport and Recreation and the Department of Education to reassume responsibility for school sport. There is little doubt that Ussasa has played a major role in the arena of school sport. The appeal of the school sport movement must reach all communities, and teachers in service of the department must lead the process. We therefore call on the department to tap into the capacity and experience of Ussasa in implementing the new school sport dispensation. Vast experience and knowledge are available from this dedicated pool of volunteers. The department also needs to share its new vision with provincial departments and should embark on road shows to popularise the new structure and its operations. During previous Budget Vote debates, the portfolio committee raised the concern that major federations should guard against channelling the bulk of their resources to the professional side of the sport at the expense of amateur competitions and development programmes. Federations ignored the advice, and what is this situation looking 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 89 of 141 like today? Everywhere we went people complained by saying that development funds to promote the sport in disadvantaged areas had been slashed, while resources had been directed to support professionals. Sponsors who funded development programmes have terminated their sponsorships. Amateur unions bear the brunt of the budget cutbacks and, as a result, hundreds of administrative staff, ground staff, coaches and talent scouts, 90% of whom are black, have either lost their jobs or will lose their jobs very soon. Fewer games are being played by amateur teams at grass-roots level, and clubs from disadvantaged areas are underfunded to such an extent that they cannot complete their league fixtures. In conclusion, we need to express our gratitude to the various MECs in the provinces, the heads of departments, the provincial federations, mayors, councillors and local sport structures for the open, frank and transparent discussions that we had during our interactions with them in the provinces. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr S J MASANGO: Deputy Speaker, our oversight visit started in Limpopo, and I must say that it actually has given us an idea of what is happening in sport in different provinces. There are quite a lot of challenges facing this country on the issue of sport. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 90 of 141 Something that I think we should change as a portfolio committee is that we should decide which municipality we want to do an oversight visit on. This should not be a provincial department decision. I don‘t think it is good that the provincial department decides for us which municipality to visit. This decision should be the committee‘s prerogative. I think one of our objectives is to check if information and communication from national and provincial departments reach the officials at local level. In some, if not most, instances the questions directed at local officials were answered by provincial officials. I remember in one province we had to stop the provincial official from answering questions directed at the local officials. The local officials didn‘t have a clue about what was happening on the ground. This is a sign of a lack of communication from the top downwards. The MEC for sport in Limpopo mentioned funding as a problem in advancing sport in the area. From our interactions with some of the members on the Lottery Fund, it was found that it was absolutely impossible to get funds from the Lottery if you didn‘t have financial statements for the past two years. The question is: How can you have financial statements if you didn‘t have money in the first place? This is a barrier for rural areas. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 91 of 141 One should appreciate the Ngoako Ramatlhodi Multipurpose Centre, which, if completed, looked after and maintained properly, will be one of the most beautiful indoor game centres in the country. I recommend this because it is not in Gauteng, not in the Western Cape, but right there in the rural province where facilities of this magnitude are not available. I am appealing to the Minister of Sport and Recreation to reconsider whether it is in the best interests of sports-loving people to hand over such a facility to the local municipality to maintain it. We all know what most municipalities are capable of when it comes to service delivery and maintenance. Ussasa is promoting sport from local school level up to national competition level, but one of the challenges has been the funding of individual children who are excelling in a particular sport and who are from poor families. A child has to be from a richer family to compete up to provincial and national level. This is not good for our country, and it is not in line with the vision of the Sport and Recreation department. We must point out that this is happening in the rural areas where parents can‘t even afford a school uniform. I think the national department should address this problem as a matter of urgency. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 92 of 141 When it comes to mass participation, the challenge that remains is funding. In almost all the areas we visited where mass participation is taking place, there is a lack of equipment in order for children to play. I remember the chairperson of the committee instructing the provincial officials to buy balls for the children as they were using torn and wrapped plastic balls. As much as too little is being done to build facilities, it is unforgivable not to maintain those already in existence. The Charles Mopedi Stadium and the surrounding buildings are neglected and in a chaotic state. This sports facility is one of the best in Qwaqwa. It is neglected purely because the provincial government thought it was the responsibility of the local government to maintain it, and the local government thought it was the provincial government‘s job. The more the condition of the stadium deteriorates, the more costly it is to bring it back to its original condition. Another point of concern is that sports facilities are being built without taking into consideration whether there is another sports facility in existence nearby that is not being used and sometimes not maintained. This is also a waste of resources. Sports facilities are there for sports development at local level. If they are not used, then what purpose are they serving? The stadium at Glenmore in Mpumalanga was used once and that was for a musical festival. We don‘t build stadiums for the local council to 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 93 of 141 make money out of them, nor for music festivals, or political rallies, but for the development of sport in that specific locality. Again, let‘s bring sports facilities to where people are staying. Most people don‘t have the money to travel long distances for training. Therefore it is crucial that facilities are accessible to the community. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Mr M M DIKGACWI: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers and hon colleagues, the misallocation of sports and recreation facilities in South African society constitutes one of the cruellest legacies of apartheid. This continues to inhibit the development of and access to sport in these communities. The Municipal Infrastructure Grant does not assist the cause to enhance sport as a vehicle in transforming the previously disadvantaged. For example, we are told that the white clubs have leases from the municipalities for at least 99 years and only pay R10 a month. This therefore means the prerogative to make the facilities available depends solely on the discretion of that white club. Furthermore, in the Model C schools which are now dominated by black and coloured kids, the facilities are being ignored and not maintained as they were when such schools were occupied by whites only. Surely, hon members, we have a problem, and this problem does 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 94 of 141 not end here. There are these social clubs like Rotary and the Lions, which also own facilities and are asking exorbitant amounts to rent them out, which automatically excludes our people. We need to encourage municipalities to include sport facilities in IDPs, and to ensure that they are accessible, and appropriate to women and people with disabilities. Sport and recreation‘s role is to address the government‘s objective of building a nation united in action for change. I am convinced that sport in this country is ideally located to play a significant part in this context. However, in order for sport to fulfil such a role, transformation of sport should be at the heart of it. The reality facing us is that unity in sport 11 years down the line can only be consolidated through transformation. Codes of sport might be united, but whether they are united in action for change is a moot point. We were often confronted by ordinary sportsmen and sportswomen questioning whom the main beneficiaries of unity are. This raises a host of possibilities, but the undeniable fact is that a sizeable part of the sporting fraternity is still not enjoying the fruits of unity. In response to this the delegation explained the principles of sport integration and key aspects of sport transformation, particularly that of moving away from the culture of separate sports facilities for different race groups. It was pointed out that it is not 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 95 of 141 possible for the government to build facilities for exclusive use by schools or communities. The government‘s approach is to integrate sport facilities so that both the schools and the communities can utilise them. Communities are therefore encouraged to work together and share available resources. The biggest problem identified by the delegation was the lack of communication amongst sport structures and also between sport structures and local government. The problems regarding the use of facilities and payment for needs are to be discussed by the structures and the municipality. A number of problem areas have been identified with regard to the delivery of service and facilities. This includes unequal access to facilities, and the fact that areas on the outer limits of the urban areas are not as well catered for as other areas, while the quality of facilities and service varies across the city. The abolishing of the Building for Sports and Recreation Project that has been replaced by the MIG, that is the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, is not working for us, because the same grant is mostly used for other social needs instead of the sport facilities that it was meant for. Local government and Sport and Recreation SA must indeed review this, as it is not working for us. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 96 of 141 Insufficient security at facilities leaves them open to abuse and misuse. Inadequate maintenance budgets lead to poor upkeep of facilities. Government must finish up their projects and not leave without having finished building them. In KwaZulu-Natal, for instance, the Mpolweni Stadium is an embarrassment because it has not been completed after three or four years. Services provided do not take into account the requirements of users, including cultural, linguistic and age-related needs. Operating hours do not necessarily meet the needs of users. The challenges are endless. Nangona kunjalo abadlali abamnyama bayaphumelela kukubi, kumuncu, kukrakra kunjalo. Usathana akangekhe abenamandla okubulala italente yabantu abayinikwe nguThixo. Nditsho naba sinabo oosathana abahamba ngenyawo behleka, bahlala nathi kodwa abafuni ukuba abantwana bethu baphumelele. Qhude manikiniki! Makudede ubumnyama kuvele ukhanyo! (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [Nevertheless, black players triumph over unfavourable conditions. Evil forces did not succeed in suppressing their talents. I am also referring to the evil forces amongst us who pretend to be part of us but have bad wishes for our children. Let the struggle continue! Let there be light!] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 97 of 141 Sport and recreation has the potential to contribute significantly in addressing national issues of social importance such as sport against crime, the physical health of the nation, creation of employment opportunities, etc. The long-term objective of the portfolio committee is to continue to keep providing oversight in order to ensure that sport and recreation is a vehicle for social change and creating a better life for all. The disaster of Bafana Bafana is an embarrassment, to say the least. The overall shaking up of the leadership of Safa is of high priority and government must intervene. Bafana Bafana needs a scenario of motherland or death. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr B W DHLAMINI: Deputy Speaker, hon members and Ministers, the provincial oversight‘s visit has identified many positive elements in the different provinces and municipalities in sport and recreation programmes and on development and transformation. Several sports events of mass participation were held, and the provinces provided assistance to organisations and deserving athletes, and the provision of facilities is still a big challenge. In almost all provinces that we visited there is a sport academy that offers training, but there is a lot of capacity and financial support. Notwithstanding the positive elements there are a number of challenges and difficulties that are still faced by the provinces, among others that the provincial sport and recreation departments 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 98 of 141 are severely underfunded as a result of problems such as provision, maintenance, upgrading of facilities and the prevention of vandalism, which cannot be properly identified. Historically disadvantaged areas and particularly the rural areas and communities are neglected. Poverty and unemployment negatively impact upon the ability of these communities to pay for transport costs to reach distantly located sports facilities and to fully participate in sport and recreation. The trend of leasing out sport facilities to the private sector by local municipalities negatively impacts upon community access to facilities, as they are either prevented from using these facilities or unable to pay the high fees required for entry. Many of the best sport facilities are still located in the formerly white areas usually out of reach of the communities most in need of them. The hon Minister for Provincial and Local Government gave an undertaking in this House that the Building for Sport budget, which is now part of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, will be ring- fenced to make sure that municipalities use this budget for sport facilities, but this has not materialised. It emerged in all the provinces that we have visited that there is no budget for sport facilities in municipalities, because this money has not been ring- fenced to make sure that municipalities use it for sport facilities. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 99 of 141 The IFP supports the report as a true reflection of what we saw in the provinces. In order for the country to avoid the Burkina Faso massacre, I think it is high time that the Treasury looked seriously at funding sport in this country. We support, as the IFP, the call for the country to legislate on sport issues and not leave sport development and transformation in the hands of the so-called sport administrators. I thank you. [Applause.] Mrs D M MOROBI: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, Deputy Ministers and members of Parliament, the Portfolio Committee On Sport and Recreation undertook an oversight visit to provinces. I will be addressing this House on our findings on two issues, which are mass participation and women in sport. In Blouberg Municipality our engagement with them involved their programme, the utilisation of the MPC. They outlined their programmes. The co-ordinators are committed people, and their purpose is to target young people and the games played include basketball, athletics, indigenous games and others. By then the O R Tambo games had already started. The municipality was preparing the under fourteens for the SA Commonwealth Games Association. The facility lacks equipment and as a result mass participation is minimal. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 100 of 141 The Jakkalskop Multipurpose Centre was built by NGO sports outreach coaches in 2001. The communities of the area were fully involved as they participated during the erection of the facility. The sports council was invited to the opening of the centre. The community clubs utilised the facility by playing handball, netball and other games. Young people are kept safe from criminal activities by engaging in sport. There is a serious need for security fences and burglar gates. A shortage of water also prevents the digging of boreholes. The delegation was invited by the MEC for sport in Gauteng to attend the Masakhane games in the Germiston Stadium. The purpose of the games was to identify talent from wards, districts and provinces. The Masakhane games are part of the South African games, and each province has its own team. The delegation was impressed by the representation of demographics. The participants were also delighted that presentations were made to the winning teams. There is the Ratanda Multipurpose Centre in the Sedibeng District, which is my constituency. The communities in this area are proud of the facility, a sure sign of ownership. The delegation was impressed by the facility as it serves its purpose. The participants were given an opportunity to share their views and challenges with the delegation. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 101 of 141 In Stanza Bopape in Mamelodi their recreation centre was packed with participants. Young people, middle-aged people, the elderly and disabled people were doing aerobics to keep themselves fit and healthy, and others played indoor games. The facility is fully utilised daily. The leader of the delegation, Mr Khompela, allowed them time to share their views, challenges and experiences. They raised interesting issues. They want to have exchange programmes and compete with other provinces. The Mamelodi Care for the Aged accommodates frail and sickly elders who also need transport to take them to the centre. In the Free State, Maluti a Phofung, the hubs are in rural areas. Co-ordinators organised youth to demonstrate activities played like soccer, handball and some indigenous games, even though there are no facilities. A hall is used for gymnastics. Teachers and local communities showed enthusiasm as they exercise for good health and to improve their shape. It is crystal clear that we still have a massive shortage of women to be exposed to sports. A question asked by the delegation was whether women were not interested in becoming coaches. The response was that women preferred their spouses to sports. However, gradually more women coaches and referees are trained. Even in the parliamentary sports committee there are very few women. [Laughter.] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 102 of 141 Bomme, ha re so qete ho itseka. [Ladies, we are not yet through with the struggle.] Ngoako Ramahlodi is a new multipurpose centre, which is still in construction. Of the 110 people employed, 30 are women. Due to the nature and the stage of construction more women will be employed in the second phase. They are looking at empowering women in glass fitting, steel fixing and others. One woman is trained as a construction supervisor. Our Constitution does not discriminate against people with disabilities. They are also included in all these sports. In Limpopo, people with disabilities participated in a sports event in Sweden. They were the pride of the province. Ngoako Ramahlodi‘s MPC has railings to accommodate wheelchairs. They are disability friendly. Our finding is that women‘s sports are not active in most provinces. Mass participation programmes also address social programmes in communities. Where there are no facilities, especially in the rural areas, lovers of sport use open grounds. Talent is identified. The committee has made recommendations, of which I will mention a few, namely that the national department should maintain the facilities, see to it that the facilities are accessible to the communities and also to disabled persons. Recreational activities 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 103 of 141 such as those performed at Stanza Bopape and Maluti a Phofung should be encouraged in all the provinces. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr M T LIKOTSI: Deputy Speaker, the PAC accepts the report of the committee as a true reflection of their oversight visits to the said provinces. Maemo a mabala a rona a dipapadi a mabe. Bana ba rona ba ntse ba bapala mobung, ha bana ba makgowa bona ba bapala mehlweng kapa thefong. [The condition of our sports fields is appalling. Our children are still playing on sandy sports fields that are unsuitable, whereas their white counterparts are playing on lawns or turf.] For us to proudly say we are free, a drastic change to the inequalities of the past must be effected without any form of doubt or hesitation. The PAC may agree to the processes of transformation, but other things need paradigm shifts by those who are in power. We must enforce new ways of thinking on leaders, which may restore the dignity of human beings and destroy a class society from its roots. Mabala a dipapadi a moo ho dulang batho ba Afrika ha a lokiswe, ho fedisa botlokotsebe metseng ya rona. Ke a leboha. [Sports fields where Africans live are not renovated, to stop the crime in our locations. Thank you.] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 104 of 141 Mr R B BHOOLA: Madam Deputy Speaker, the MF proudly applauds the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation for their oversight in the areas covered in their report. It appears from the report that the portfolio committee carried out thorough research into the situation in these areas and left no stone unturned. With such determination, the MF is confident that sport and recreation will effectively reach every corner of South Africa and the sector will be the democracy it belongs to. Sport in South Africa is a great part of the spirit of our nation and the MF would love to strengthen the spirit by ensuring the delivery of the necessary facilities in all areas, poverty stricken and affluent. We have always felt that recreation and sporting activities serve as a great deterrent, for our youth, from being absorbed into crime and drugs. Also, participation in sport caters for healthier living. The MF acknowledges that, in both reports of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on the various areas, similar intentions were carried out, which appropriately attended to the sector issues in those regions and concerns regarding the 2010 soccer world cup. Having noted the findings of the portfolio committee after its numerous in-depth meetings with the necessary stakeholders in the various regions, the MF agrees with the recommendations made by the portfolio committee. We strongly agree that Sport and Recreation SA 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 105 of 141 has a crucial role to play in these. Also, the necessary hon premiers, MEC: of sport and recreation and the respective Ministers in the various provinces play a vital role in the effective and efficient infiltration, development and advancement of sport and recreation in their areas. The MF supports the recommendations made and feels that their implementation will greatly benefit sport and recreation in these areas. I thank you. Mr B M KOMPHELA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Maloko a Palamente a hlomphehileng haholo, re a leboha hore kajeno tjena re fumane monyetla wa hore re tlalehele Palamente le setjhaba sa rona sa Afrika Borwa ka mosebetsi o moholo wa Palamente, wa ho tsamaya re lekola kamoo mosebetsi o ntseng o tsamaya ka teng. Dintho tseo re di boneng diprofensing tseo re tsamaileng ho tsona, naha ka bophara, ke dintho tse tshwanang kaofela ha tsona. Ke ntho tse kang tsa hore batho ba rona ba Afrika Borwa ba hloka mabala a dipapadi moo ba leng teng. Empa ho na le dintho tse ntle tse etsahetseng, tse entsweng ke mmuso ona wa rona. Ke leboha ha o le teng, Letona, hore ke tle ke bue taba tsena mme o tle o kgone ho di utlwa hantle, ka ha re tla lakatsa hore o di lokise hobane re a kgoptjwa ha di sa loke. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 106 of 141 Re ile ra etela KwaZulu-Natal. Ha re kgutla teng, re ile ra sheba direkoto tsa Palamente mme ra fumana hore ka 2003, Komiti ya Palamente e neng e etetse moo, e ile ya fumana ho thwe ho na le setediyamo se qetilweng ho ahwa, Empolweni. Ha re kgutla teng, ka 2005, re fumane ho se setediyamo se jwalo. Ha re tlalehela Palamente ditaba tse kang tseo re re, ka kopo hle, re batla hore ha re kgutlela mono, bathong bao ba nang le tshepo e phahamisitsweng ke rona, ba tle ba kgone ho bona hore, ha re bowa sekwele, ho na le taba eo re ileng ra e fetisa ho lokisa maemo ao a neng a le teng ka nako eo. Ke seo re se kopang seo. Empa, re batla ho leboha hape-hape, bakeng sa Lotto. Modulasetulo wa Lefapha la tsa Kgwebo le Indaseteri, wa mphato Ben Martin, re a buisana le yena hobane mmethe oo o o fumanang bakeng sa ditekanyetso tsa hao tsa tsa dipapadi, ke nnete ha o motle haholo ho ka etsa ntho tsena tseo setjhaba se di lebeletseng kaofela. Re buisana le yena ka hore ho ka ba molemo ha re ka eketsa mmethenyana ono ka 20%, ho potlakisa kaho ya mabala a dipapadi le matamo a bana a ho sesa, ho tlisa bophelo bo botle le hore bana bana ba tloswe kgakgauwaneng ena ya ho sebedisa dithetefatsi. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.) [Hon members of Parliament, today we feel honoured to have been granted this opportunity to report on the huge task carried out by 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 107 of 141 Parliament in its role as an oversight instrument to Parliament and to the nation as a whole. During our visits to the provinces, we observed that the same problems were common throughout the country. They included, among others, the shortage of sports fields. However, there are many positive developments that have taken place in sport in this country. I am very grateful for the Minister of sport‘s presence in the House, and for him to have the information first hand regarding the problems in sport. We hope that he will solve them quickly because we do not wish to fail our people. On our return from KwaZulu-Natal, we scrutinised parliamentary records and discovered that the parliamentary committee, which visited the place in 2003, reported that there was one complete stadium at Empolweni. But, surprisingly, on our visit in 2005, we did not find a stadium. We report these developments with the hope that some measures will be taken to meet the high expectations of the people of Empolweni so that when we go back there they do not accuse us of making empty promises. That is all we ask. We are thankful for the financial support from the Lottery. We are also in constant contact with the director-general from the 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 108 of 141 Department of Finance, Ben Martin, for financial assistance because the funds allocated for sport are insufficient, and therefore cannot meet national expectations. The discussions with the director- general are aimed at persuading him to increase our budget allocation by about 20% in order to fast-track the building of stadiums, swimming pools and to produce youth free from the scourge of drug abuse.] We really appreciate the idea of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, but we just want to draw the attention of the Minister and the hon House to our concern. This is a good concept, we appreciate it and we accept it. However, I don‘t think it‘s correct that you should have abandoned your programme, which was called Building for Sport, before we could see the Municipal Infrastructure Grant running. The problem that we are encountering around the question of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, as the portfolio committee, is that your programme, Building for Sport, has built 144 sporting facilities throughout the country. However, with the advent of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, we have only built four in the country. It‘s a loss. What happened to the 140? It used to be 144. There is nothing wrong with the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, but it‘s a new concept, where municipalities are putting facilities for sport at position G, which is not a priority to municipalities. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 109 of 141 We have interacted with the Integrated Development Plans of municipalities throughout the country. I can confidently say to this House that only four municipalities throughout the country have sport as one of their priorities, and are building facilities for our children to go and play in. That is a challenge that exists in the country. We urge, again, that there should be a way for us to request a reinforcement of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, so that it should target, exactly, the building of these facilities, because the Minister has raised a lot of expectations for everybody in the country. You went to Oudtshoorn over the weekend and raised hundreds of people‘s expectations by saying those kids must play. Where should they play, because you are unable to build facilities? It‘s a humble request from our committee; saying that, whilst you are looking for the running of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, let us use this alternative vehicle, which is a running vehicle, at the same time. The question of the memorandum of understanding in sport and recreation is a problem throughout the provinces. We have met with the chairpersons of all provinces, and others do not even know about the memorandum of understanding. The memorandum of understanding has become the affair of the two national departments in Cape Town. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 110 of 141 In provinces, chairpersons and everybody else did not know, but the question of that memorandum of understanding clearly places physical education at school level and it is the Ministry‘s responsibility to deal with sport. People do not understand that. Those who are responsible for the provision of sport have not been given this kind of information for them to understand what the new challenges and the new things are, which are beginning to enhance and broaden the mass participation of learners everywhere around the country. The other problem is the legislation. One thing that we are seized with, as a portfolio committee, is the governance of sport in the country. It is chaotic, it has collapsed and it‘s a disgrace. I think I agree with the comrade who says that we should call for these hon ladies and gentlemen in both the SA Rugby Football Union and the SA Football Association, and also in the United Cricket Board, please to pack their things and go for healthy sport in this country, because this is anarchy. [Interjections.] I‘m coming to that point. Minister, you can‘t do that because this House is saying that sport should be a sacred thing, which you do not touch. You must be a passive spectator. There should be pillaging and plundering, because there is no law that gives you powers to call people to order if there is anarchy. Up until such time, I think we must be able to bite the bullet. We have gone to France, we have gone all over, and those countries are 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 111 of 141 running sport through the law. Where there is no law, there is anarchy and this is the anarchy that we see. Around the question of 2010, throughout the provinces, I‘ve heard you saying to many people . . . . . . Musani ukungxama ngokwakha amabala amaninzi ngoba izakuba sesa se-Korea/Japan. Nguwe wedwa olifundisa abantu elo lizwi. Le komiti yalapha ekhaya ekufuneka iququzele ihleli zava ezi-ofisini. Abatsho ebantwini ukuba, ‗Kha nime kancinci nantsi into esiza kuyenza.‘ Ngoba bathi kuthi . . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [ . . . refrain from quickly building many playing fields or this country will be like Korea/Japan. It is you alone who preaches that message to people. The committee that is supposed to co-ordinate this is sitting and relaxing. They are not saying to people, ‗Please exercise patience because this is what we are going to do.‘ They say to us . . . ] You see, we have the 2006 German World Cup responsibility, so we must not do anything. However, we have a problem, as a portfolio committee. When you give people information, you don‘t do anything else. You just give them information to prepare them, so that they must know that, tomorrow, after the 2006 world cup in Germany, there is something that we are going to do. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 112 of 141 Let us give our people information because, wherever they are, they are looking for the excitement that was caused by Madiba when he raised that trophy of the 2010 Federation of International Football Associations World Cup, and that excitement is going down. Let us stay with that momentum and be able to give people information. We appeal that the Local Organising Committee should be able to have a road show and inform municipalities and everybody else about what these challenges are and why we are slowing down in building stadiums and all those other things. There should, at least, be information given to those people. In the municipality of Steynsrus, in the Free State, if you build a high-powered facility, the revenue base for that municipality would only be R25. They would not be able to cut the grass, they would not be able to replace glass, and they would not be able to do anything else. Now, the committee makes a recommendation that, whilst we have this wish to see that even small municipalities are benefiting around the issue of stadiums, it should be the responsibility of the national department to look after the facilities until municipalities have reached a healthy level of being able to maintain that stadium. We understand the issue of the competency of all stadiums being given by the provincial and local government to municipalities, but 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 113 of 141 what about the capacity of revenue? We went to Montshiwa, in the North West. The stadium there was renovated at a cost of R4 million and, in the second round, it was renovated at a cost of R8 million. You can go and see for yourself, there is no stadium there. That is because that municipality is so small that it cannot maintain a facility of that size in Montshiwa. So, whatever we do, I think we must have a better interaction with the provincial and local government, in relation to how we should deal with small municipalities, giving them just the basic facilities. There is a problem throughout the country. Not a single province can say to you there are no leases of stadiums. Not even here in Cape Town, where we are. In Mangaung, the Vodacom stadium doesn‘t belong to the municipality. It belongs to the Cheetahs. In Durban, a volleyball team pays R8 000 for a game, per day, because they can‘t access that facility, as it has been leased to other people. We must be able to challenge, head-on, the demon of leases throughout the country, and see what we can do with the leases in this country. They are impeding people‘s access to facilities. [Applause.] Everywhere, there are leases given to big sporting codes, and when our teams go to play there, like Celtic, they pay R15 000. [Time expired.] [Applause.] 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 114 of 141 Debate concluded. The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: We move: That the report be noted. Motion agreed to. Report on oversight visit to Limpopo, Mpumalanga and Gauteng accordingly noted. Report on oversight visit to Free State and North West Provinces accordingly noted. AWARDS GIVEN TO DEPARTMENT OF SPORT AND RECREATION BY SA INSTITUTE FOR GOVERNMENT CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS (Announcement) The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Madam Speaker, it is with a sense of pride that we share some information in this hon House this afternoon. Saica, the SA Institute for Chartered Accountants, has a system by which they award prizes to government departments, nationally and provincially. In fact, they have two categories. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 115 of 141 In the category where the national departments had to compete with all the provincial departments they had a whole list of criteria against which they measured those departments. I would like to just mention some of these criteria, there is a whole list, but the two criteria that stand out are the way in which the department is managed and then obviously the audit report of the department for that past financial year. Now, in that first category of the national departments and the provinces and provincial departments, the Department of Sport and Recreation was awarded first prize. We were number one there, and amongst the national departments, the Department of Sport and Recreation is also number one. So, we are the winners in both those categories. It fills us with pride, and may I say to hon Minister Mfundisi: Thank you so much for your leadership. We want to thank our team. We grilled them with questions, but they will see that from those tears came a lot of good work. To the director-general, the chief financial officer and the whole department: Congratulations on a job well done. There will be a time arranged for a professional group of the institute to hand over the prizes to the hon Minister. But having listened to the debate this afternoon, I want to conclude by saying one thing: We obviously agree with a lot of things that have been 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 116 of 141 said and shared this afternoon. But give us time and money. With the management and the will there is under the leadership of the Minister of Sport and Recreation, we will not only transform sport in this country, we will be number one in the world like we are regarding these prizes of Saigca. I thank the House for their attention. The House adjourned at 16:55. __________ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS THURSDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2005 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson 1. Introduction of Bills (1) The Minister of Minerals and Energy 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 117 of 141 (i) Electricity Regulation Bill [B 29 – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75) [Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 27984 of 31 August 2005.] Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 2 September 2005. In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) within three parliamentary working days. National Assembly The Speaker 1. Membership of Assembly (floor-crossing) Membership status of the following members has in terms of Schedule 6A of the Constitution (floor-crossing) changed as follows: Mr S Simmons has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the United Party of South Africa (UPSA), a new party in the National Assembly. Mr L M Green has, on 1 September 2005, left the African Christian Democratic Party (ACDP) and joined the Federation of Democrats (FD), a new party in the National Assembly. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 118 of 141 Mr M C J van Schalkwyk has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the African National Congress (ANC). Mr C H F Greyling has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the African National Congress (ANC). Mr F Beukman has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the African National Congress (ANC). Mr J Schippers has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the African National Congress (ANC). Ms C B Johnson has, on 1 September 2005, left the New National Party (NNP) and joined the African National Congress (ANC). TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Agricultural Research Council (ARC) for 2004- 2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004- 2005 [RP 88-2005]. 2. The Minister in The Presidency 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 119 of 141 (a) Report and Financial Statements of Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 118-2005]. COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly 1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security on the South African Police Service (SAPS) Station Monitoring Tool, dated 31 August 2005: The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security having developed a monitoring tool for the South African Police Service (SAPS) Stations reports as follows: A. Introduction The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security held a strategic planning workshop in February 2005. The Report of the Workshop adopted by the Committee on 23 February 2005 identified the need to develop a standardized questionnaire (monitoring tool) for oversight visits of police stations to ensure more effective and coordinated policing oversight. The Committee established a subcommittee to oversee and input into the establishment of this tool. The subcommittee consists of Members from the various political parties represented in the Portfolio Committee. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 120 of 141 B. Purpose The purpose of this questionnaire is to: Facilitate effective oversight by the various parliamentary committees responsible for Safety and Security over policing at station level. Provide these committees with useful independent data with which to make recommendations to improve the functioning of policing. Compare successes and problems between stations and provinces. Measure progress at police stations over time. Ensure more effective collaboration in oversight functions between the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security of the National Assembly, the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces and the Standing Committees within the various provincial legislatures. C. Who should use the questionnaire? The questionnaire should be used by: Members of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security when undertaking station visits as part of their constituency work. The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security when undertaking station visits as part of the committee programme. In addition, the questionnaire may be used by: 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 121 of 141 Members of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs when undertaking station visits as part of constituency or committee work. Members of the Standing Committees of the Provincial Legislatures when undertaking station visits as part of constituency or committee work. Any Member of Parliament when undertaking station visits as part of constituency work. D. Conclusion The questionnaire will be launched in parliament on a date to be announced. All members are encouraged to attend. Bound copies of the questionnaire are available in the office of the Clerk of Papers. The committee presents this report to Parliament for approval of the questionnaire. Report to be considered. FRIDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2005 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly The Speaker 1. Membership of Assembly 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 122 of 141 1. Membership of the following members of the National Assembly has been terminated with effect from 31 August 2005: Diko, M; Mdaka N M. TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Finance (a) Government Notice No 806 published in Government Gazette No 27878 dated 5 August 2005: Determination on interest rate for purposes of paragraph (a) of the definition of “official rate of interest” in paragraph 1 of the Seventh Schedule, tabled in terms of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962). 2. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government (a) Report and Financial Statements of Municipal Infrastructure Investment Unit (MIIU) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 72-2005]. 3. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 123 of 141 (a) Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996. (b) Explanatory memorandum to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions. 4. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs (a) Report and Financial Statements of Bala Farms (Pty) Ltd for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 133- 2005]. 5. The Minister of Labour (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Construction Sector Education and Training Authority (CETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 85-2005]. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Chemical Industries Education and Training Authority (CHIETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 97-2005]. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 124 of 141 (c) Report and Financial Statements of the Clothing, Textiles, Footwear and Leather Sector Education and Training Authority (CTFL SETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 87-2005]. (d) Report and Financial Statements of the Primary Agriculture Education and Training Authority (PAETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 106-2005]. (e) Report and Financial Statements of the Diplomacy, Intelligence, Defence and Trade Education and Training Authority (DIDTETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 100-2005]. (f) Report and Financial Statements of the Tourism, Hospitality and Sport Education and Training Authority (THETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 104-2005]. (g) Report and Financial Statements of the Banking Sector Education and Training Authority (BANKSETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 84-2005]. (h) Report and Financial Statements of the Wholesale and Retail Sector Education and Training Authority (W&RSETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 105-2005]. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 125 of 141 (i) Report and Financial Statements of the Local Government, Water and Related Sector Education and Training Authority (LGWSETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 95-2005]. 6. The Minister of Arts and Culture (a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Museum for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 141-2005]. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Northern Flagship Institution for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 128-2005]. (c) Report and Financial Statements of the Freedom Park Trust for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. (d) Report and Financial Statements of Blind South Africa (Blind SA) 2004-2005, including the report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. (e) Report and Financial Statements of Performing Arts Centre of the Free State for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. MONDAY, 5 SEPTEMBER 2005 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 126 of 141 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson 1. Assent by President in respect of Bills (1) Sectional Titles Amendment Bill [B 10B – 2005] – Act No 7 of 2005 (assented to and signed by President on 08 July 2005). National Assembly The Speaker 1. Referrals to committees of papers tabled 1. The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs. The Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of Ncera Farms (Pty) Ltd for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 127 of 141 2. The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Labour. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration (CCMA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 54-2005]. 3. The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Education. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of South African Council for Educators (SACE) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. 4. The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Arts and Culture. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration: (a) Report and Financial Statements of Artscape for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. 5. The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration: 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 128 of 141 (a) Report of the South African Law Reform Commission on the Repeal of the Black Administration Act, 1927 (Act No 38 of 1927). TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Labour (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Sector Education and Training Authority for Secondary Agriculture (SETASA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 107-2005]. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Education, Training and Development Practices Sector Education and Training Authority (ETDP SETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. (c) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and Accounting Services Sector Education and Training Authority (FASSET) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 83-2005]. (d) Report and Financial Statements of the Insurance Sector Education and Training Authority (INSETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 93-2005]. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 129 of 141 (e) Report and Financial Statements of the Health and Welfare Sector Education and Training Authority (HWSETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 92-2005]. COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly 1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security on Oversight Visit to Western Cape Regarding Service Delivery and Implementation Action Steps of the Firearms Control Act 12 to 14 June 2005, dated 24 August 2005: INDEX 1. Introduction 2. Delegation 3. Term of reference 4. Beaufort West Police Station 5. Laingsburg Police Station 6. Touwsriver Police Station 7. De Doorns Police Station 8. Debriefing Session and Recommendations 8.1 Inadequate Number of Bulletproof vest 8.2 Equity at Police Stations 8.3 Language policy 9. Recommendation 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 130 of 141 The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, having conducted an oversight visit to the Western Cape (Overberg) Province from 12 to 14 June 2005, reports as follows: 1. INTRODUCTION The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security undertook a visit to 4 police stations in the Western Cape Province (Beaufort West, Laingsburg, Touwsriver, and DeDoorns). The purpose of the visit was to investigate service delivery and whether or not the implementation action steps (distribution of official documents, training of SAPS personnel, technical support, accreditation, etc) of the Firearms Control Act and its Regulations are completed and whether or not all national police stations which have been identified as ready to implement this Act, are indeed ready for implementing this Legislation. 2. DELEGATION 1) Ms MM Sotyu (ANC) - Committee Chairperson and leader of Delegation 2) Mr AM Maziya (ANC) 3) Ms A Van Wyk (ANC) 4) Mr S Mahote (ANC) 5) Mr N L Diale (ANC) 6) Mr A H Gaum (NNP) 7) Mr R King (DA) 8) Mr R Jankielsohn (DA) 9) Mr JC Michaels (Committee Secretary) 10) Mr V Mfuniselwa (Committee Assistant) 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 131 of 141 The following people were also in attendance, Area Commissioner Daniels and his team of Zone Commissioners, Director Zabo at the Ministers Office, ICD Western Cape Head and his team and Representatives from the Western Cape Department for Community Safety. 3. TERMS OF REFERENCE The Delegation had to investigate and report to Parliament on the following: Whether or not the implementation action steps (distribution of official documents; training of SAPS personnel, technical support, accreditation, etc) of the Firearms Control Act and its Regulations are completed, and whether or not all national police stations which have been identified as ready to implement this Act, are indeed ready for implementing this Legislation. Service delivery at selected Police Stations as identified by Members of Parliament Based on its observations and discussions that were held with the relevant stakeholders, the Committee had to make recommendations. 4. BEAUFORT WEST POLICE STATION Management of the Beaufort West Police Station, led by the Superintendent, briefed the Committee as follows: 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 132 of 141 The Beaufort West police station serves a 124 176km geographical area with a population of 37 107. There is Satellite police stations in Merwerville and Nelspoort, and additional police stations in Neville and Nelspoort. Beaufort West is divided into 10 Sectors although sector policing is still in its growing phase. The station currently has 3 uniformed police and 2 civilians performing duties in relation to the Firearms Control Act. For the first 6 months of this year the station processed 38 Firearm license renewals and 3 new applications. The police station has 207 staff members and a total of 42 vehicles. Priority crimes at the police station include business and residential burglary, and aggravated and common robbery. Special projects include Nature conservation & education in cooperation with the Karoo National Park, awareness drive (pamphlet distribution) on sexual offences and establishment of sub-forums for the CPF (Community Policing Forum). Both the CPF and union representatives indicated that they have a good working relationship with the station management. Committee members raised concerns about the inadequate number of bulletproof vests and the availability of a Designated Firearms Officials at the station while training is provided to staff working at the Firearms licensing division. The committee further expressed its concern about the police station‘s ability to deal with the public in any language. Other concerns that were raised are: 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 133 of 141 The number of illegal shebeens Lack of attention to social crimes The number of vacant post and equity at the Police Station. The use of crime kits at crime scenes e.g. Finger print & Rape Kits The station management responded by saying that the issue of the inadequate number of bulletproof vests is in the process of being address by the Provincial head office. English is the main language used by police members when addressing the public and taking statements. However the language issue remains a challenge at the police station. The police station management admitted that illegal shebeens are a problem and this leads to the high incidents of social crimes. There is however a plan in place to deal with this matter. All vacant post will be filled sometime soon since most have already been advertised. The appointment of females however remains a challenge. Crime kits are frequently used at crime scenes and sent to the forensic laboratory in Beaufort West. 5. LAINGSBURG POLICE STATION 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 134 of 141 The Station has a new Station Commander who was redeployed to the station. The policing area consists of 9642 square kilometers. The estimated population is 5 920. The Police station has 46 staff members (of which 7 are civilians), and a total of 8 vehicles. The station has one designated police official (DPO) who’s responsible for dealing with all matters related the new Firearms Control Act. Five new applications for firearms licenses have been processed since January 2005. The police management has a good working relationship with both the Unions and the CPF. There is, however, a lack of trust between the community and the police. The committee was told that the police station is still in need of vehicles, office space and bulletproof vests. The priority crimes at the police station include Assault GBH, Assault common, theft and burglary (residential & business). Committee members enquiries related to the: Percentage of crimes that are committed by individuals from other areas. Kind of vehicles needed Extent to which bulletproof vests are a problem Low conviction rates Use of crime kits by police members Shooting ranges at Laingsburg Staff shortage and Steps taken to improve relationship with the community. Drug related crime is minimal and problems with individuals from other towns are none existent. The police station presently has 6 functional vehicles, 4 of which have done more then 200 000kms, thus worsening the problem of breakages and vehicle shortages. There is a shortage of 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 135 of 141 bulletproof vests but the Provincial Head office already confirmed that more would be allocated in the near future. The staff shortage exists due to members continuously being transferred. However, 65 uniformed new police recruits will be appointed in the near future. The low conviction rate is due to individuals withdrawing cases. Accredited shooting ranges are in Beaufort West and Ladysmith. Crime kits are extensively used at crime scenes. Laingsburg has been prioritized by the Department of Public Works for additional office space. 6. TOUWSRIVER POLICE STATION The Touwsriver Police precinct includes Middeldorp, Mount Crescent, Schoemansville and Steenvliet, with a population of 8 500 people. The Police station has a staff complement of 43 (34 Uniformed members and 10 Civilians) and 7 vehicles. One senior member of police has received training on the new Firearms Control Legislation. The Station management has a good relationship with the CPF and the union representatives at the police station. The Committee was told that serious crimes, crimes against woman & children and organized crime are prioritized and is decreasing. Detectives’ case loads are on average 95 per month and most of them are assault cases, which are withdrawn before it reaches court. There is an increase in crime during off seasonal periods, due to an influx of people. The office operating hours (8:00 – 17:00) of the clinic contribute to the increased number of death cases. Crime kits are extensively used and sent to Worcester for analysis. Bulletproof vests have been applied for and should be allocated in the near future. Staff shortage is negatively effecting social crime prevention. 7. DE DOORNS POLICE STATION 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 136 of 141 The Police station serves an area of 483 square kilometers, with a population of 146 029 people. The human resource component consists of 51 members, and there are 9 vehicles. Six senior police officials are currently undergoing training on the Firearms Control Act. An awareness campaign was held soon after the launch of the act in order to sensitize the community about the new Act. Special projects at the station include training of community members as reservist and for neighbourhood and farm watch. The police station is in need of additional office space, and quad bikes are needed for patrols and crime prevention operations in the informal settlements. Priority crimes at the station include murder, rape and drug dealing. Management at the police station has a good working relationship with the unions and CPF. There are 24 detectives at the police station and they deal on average with 24 new cases a month. The Designated Police Officer appointed to deal with Firearm licenses does not have a vehicle. The police station is awaiting the new bulletproof vests that were issued. 8. DEBRIEFING SESSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS The delegation held a debriefing session with the SAPS Provincial Management. The debriefing was based on the information received and concerns raised during the separate meetings that were held at different Police Stations. The session focused specifically on: The inadequate number of bulletproof vests, Equity at police stations, Language policy and Recommendations on the way forward. 8.1 Inadequate number of bulletproof vests 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 137 of 141 Mr Daniels (Commissioner for Overberg Area) said that the shortage of bulletproof vests is a national problem, which emanates from the supplier that’s unable to keep up with the SAPS demands. However this problem is being attended to. 8.2 Equity at police stations The Committee expressed its concerns with regard to the low number of females at police stations, in particular those in senior positions. Mr Daniels gave the Committee his assurance that this matter will be attended to. 8.3 Language policy The committee agreed that this is a matter, which will be taken up at a different level since this policy is not determined by the Provincial Police Management. 9. RECOMMENDATIONS The Portfolio Committee recommends that: The status of Beaufort West police station is reconsidered. The Department of Health and Social Development are consulted regarding the operating hours of the Clinic at Touwsriver. Report to be considered. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 138 of 141 TUESDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson 1. Introduction of Bills (1) The Minister of Minerals and Energy (i) Precious Metals Bill [B 30 – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75) [Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 27929 of 19 August 2005.] Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 7 September 2005. National Assembly The Speaker 1. Membership of Assembly (Floor-crossing) 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 139 of 141 Membership status of the following members has in terms of Schedule 6A of the Constitution (floor-crossing) changed, as follows: Mr J J M Stephens has, on 6 September 2005, left the United Democratic Movement (UDM) and joined the Democratic Alliance (DA). Dr G G Woods, Mr M V Ngema, Mr B C Ngiba and Ms M M Mdlalose have, on 6 September 2005, left the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP) and joined the National Democratic Convention (NADECO), a new party in the National Assembly. Mr L K Joubert has, on 6 September 2005, left the Inkatha Freedom Party (IFP) and joined the Democratic Alliance (DA). 2. Membership of Committees The following changes have been made to the membership of Portfolio Committees, viz: Housing: Appointed: Khumalo, Rev M S Discharged: Cupido, Mr H B Public Works: Appointed: Cupido, Mr H B Discharged: Khumalo, Rev M S Water Affairs and Forestry: 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 140 of 141 Appointed: Cupido, Mr H B TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces 1. The Minister of Labour (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Fund for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Services Sector Education and Training (Services SETA) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 78-2005]. 2. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism (a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 28 – Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 170-2005]. (b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Biodiversity Institute for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. 6 SEPTEMBER 2005 PAGE: 141 of 141 (c) Report and Financial Statements of The Greater St. Lucia Wetland Park for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005. (d) Report and Financial Statements of South African Tourism for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005.
Pages to are hidden for
"TUESDAY_ 6 SEPTEMBER 2005"Please download to view full document