Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from
sunecoenergy.com
Source: http://sci.tech−archive.net/Archive/sci.energy/2008−12/msg00050.html
• From: "Rob Dekker"
• Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 21:43:40 −0800
"Bob Eld" wrote in message
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"Rob Dekker" wrote in message
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"Bob Eld" wrote in message
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I just was looking at
http://www.sunecoenergy.com/index_files/Page298.html
and saw some incredible claims. Any thoughts?
"SunEco currently generates algae oil at ratio of 40,000± gl
per acre
foot, per year"
"These oil lakes are renewable every 20−30 days and require
NO
polluting chemicals or fertilizers and are energy self
sufficient."
"SunEco has developed the methodology, biology, and
process technology
to mass produce, harvest, and extract oils from these "lakes"
at a
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com 1
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com
volume not yet achieved by any other entity. While there are
a number
of companies and institutions pursuing algae oil production,
most
measure their actual production in liters, while SunEco
measures it's
monthly production in barrels."
Typical press release hype. Their reported yields are about
10 times the
yields expected from typical insolation, photosynthesis
efficiency,
wavelength absorption and other factors. There were many
discussions of
this
some months ago in this and other groups.
I would like to see PROOF that they can produce even 5,000
gal of algal
oil
per acre per year. Also there is some question of the units
involved. An
Acre−foot is a volume measurement yet the sunlight that
causes
photosynthesis is by area not by volume so what does it
mean? They need
to
explain in simple yet technical language what they are
getting and how
it
relates to efficiencies and absorption wavelengths.
Me thinks there's a bit of "bull shit" in this announcement
until they
prove
otherwise.
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com 2
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com
I agree.
For a photosynthetic algae system that turns sunlight + CO2 into a
hydrocarbon(oil or so), claims beyond 5,000 gallons/acre/year
should be regarded with outmost sceptisism, as we have found from
Dimitrov's study: http://www.nanostring.net/Algae/CaseStudy.pdf
But there are a couple of very odd things which makes me believe that this
is not a photosynthetic algae process at all, but It is
probably an 'advanced' waste water treatment plant, turning waste water
into oil.
Here are some indicators from the SunEco web site :
− There is no mentioning of how CO2 gets into the ponds and what the CO2
concentation is. It seems they work with 'ambient' CO2
levels in the air. That is by itself a very strong indicator that the
carbon in the hydrocarbon does not come from CO2, but from
organic waste in the water in the pond.
− Yield is reported in gallons per acre foot. Acre foot is a measure of
volume (of water), and not a surface area as you would
expect for a normal algae plant. They use volume of water, not amount of
sunlight (and thus surface area), as the main metric for
oil production.
− They talk (on their home page) about using waste water, and mention
elsewhere that they need agricultural 'runoff water' for the
process.
So my guess is that this system works as a biodigester, not as a
photosynthetic algae plant.
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com 3
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com
So there is almost certainly a lot more "shit" around this project than
from what SunEco mentions.
Still interesting, but it is important to note that biodigesting systems
are not scalable (to levels needed to make a significant
dent in the global oil markets).
Rob
Could be? But algae requires photosynthesis to work.
Yes they did. And there is nothing wrong with that.
They have algae ponds (the open structures that you see on their home page), which exposes the algae to
sunlight.
They did mention algae didn't they?
Yes
I could understand some bacterial process using the energy in
waste water but algae?
Algae and photocynthetic bacteria are often terms used for the same thing.
For example, cyanobacteria are often called "blue−green algae".
Algae is just the general term for microorganisms that encorporate a photosynthetic process in their life cycle.
But that does not mean that these microorganisms ONLY rely on photosynthesis for their energy needs.
Most (if not all) strains of algae need nutrients and many 'digest' organic material.
Where does the energy come from and how does it get into algae?
Most algae are very versatile. Under different (nutrient, light, biomass, oxygen level) conditions that can
either consume almost
any (organic) substance that has any form of 'chemical energy' in it, and convert it to another substance,
depending on conditions
and algae strain.
As a result, many companies have systems that use algae for wastewater treatment (just Google "algae
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com 4
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com
wastewater treatment").
Like I said, this whole thing smacks of press release hype and
B.S. Furthermore, if not photosynthesis, why the name "SUN" Eco?
Yes, there seems a lot of disguise from these new bio companies, and that is annoying.
So it is our job is to poke through the hype and find out what they do, and how good they are in it.
Water treatment plants are important, and this algae−based system seems to give water treatment a 'refreshing'
look with a
biological (algae) product, producing cleaner water plus animal feed plus some fuel. And that's nice....
Rob
.
Re: Amazing algae biodiesel claims from sunecoenergy.com 5