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					[12:02] <hwaara> What ubuntu package is the base installer in? The one
where you install the ubuntu distro?
[12:02] <hwaara> I want to translate some strings there!
[12:02] <dholbach> yes.... zakmccracken package! :)
[12:03] <sivang> debian-installer no?
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[12:03] <Skapare> nalioth: you here?
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[12:04] <tseng> apperantly not
[12:04] <Skapare> hmmm
[12:04] <Skapare> he suggested coming here when I asked him a question
[12:05] <dholbach> and loom for scummvm
[12:05] <dholbach> and maniacmansion
[12:05] <Skapare> I guess I'll go back to #ubuntu
[12:05] <dholbach> woohoo
[12:05] <dholbach> :)
[12:05] <spayne> slomo: does this mean i can continue with dopi?
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[12:14] <Skapare> so does this channel offer help to people that are new
to Ubuntu, even though very experienced otherwise with other
distributions and systems?
[12:15] <tseng> not really, no
[12:15] <Skapare> where would be a good place for that?
[12:15] <tseng> this channel offers help to people working on packaging
and bugfixing
[12:15] <Skapare> ah
[12:16] <Skapare> what I want to do is install Ubuntu into a subdirectory
of an existing Linux system ... where is a good place to get help on that
(I know how to do it in Slackware)
[12:16] <tseng> man debootstrap
[12:17] <Skapare> No manual entry for debootstrap ... but then, I am on a
Slackware system right now
[12:18] <sivang> tseng: man, still downloading..
[12:19] <Skapare> OK ... different question ... would this be the place
to ask/talk about porting to a new architecture (e.g. Sparc or S/390) ?
[12:20] <tseng> there is already a sparc port
[12:20] <Skapare> just not officially released, yet?
[12:20] <tseng> yes
[12:21] <Skapare> I have no spare x86 machines at the moment to try
Ubuntu on ... but I do have 3 spare Sun Sparc machines :)
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[12:24] <sivang> tseng: there a way to see how fast it is downloading?
=== tseng shurgs
[12:25] <tseng> shrugs
[12:25] <tseng> it takes a few minutes for me, i dont know what to tell
[12:25] <Skapare> so where do I get Ubuntu for Sparc? d/l?
[12:25] <tseng> sparc.ubuntu.com
[12:25] <tseng> i think yo might have to upgrade from debian
[12:25] <Skapare> thanks
[12:25] <tseng> those are just packages
[12:27] <sivang> tseng: hmm, interesting. what sort of interenet
connection do you have?
[12:27] <tseng> 1.5mb
[12:27] <sivang> same here
[12:27] <sivang> weird
[12:28] <hub> I wish I had a few sparc
[12:28] <tseng> i have one in my living room
[12:28] <tseng> i dont know how to console into it
[12:28] <tseng> tried a cisco console cable
[12:29] <tseng> with a serial connector on one end
[12:29] <tseng> it has no vga
[12:30] <hub> tseng: cisco cable are not OK
[12:30] <hub> use a real nullmodem cable
[12:30] <tseng> what do i need?
[12:30] <hub> I could never use Cisco. but null modem works
[12:30] <tseng> ok
[12:30] <hub> what kind of machine is it?
[12:30] <tseng> its a 1u sparc
[12:30] <tseng> im told 1ghz
[12:31] <hub> Utra Sparc 1?
[12:31] <tseng> no, one rack unit
[12:31] <hub> ah
[12:31] <hub> oh
[12:31] <hub> unlikely to have a video card
[12:31] <hub> it is probably faster than my 1GHz PIII
[12:32] <tseng> it probably has an arseload of ram
[12:32] <hub> :-(
[12:33] <tseng> hm null modem has serial on both ends?
[12:33] <tseng> the console port on my box is RJ45
[12:33] <tseng> just like the cisco console ports
[12:33] <hub> ah
[12:33] <hub> sorry I don't know then
[12:34] <hub> all the sun I have seen have a standard db25
[12:34] <hub> even the IBM pSeries I have at work has that
[12:35] <tseng> maybe i just setup minicom wrong
[12:38] <hub> maybe
[12:38] <hub> 9600 8 1
[12:38] <hub> n
[12:38] <hub> these are the settings if I rememver
[12:38] <tseng> sounds right
[12:39] <hub> do you get anything?
[12:39] <hub> or just garbage?
[12:39] <tseng> nothing
[12:39] <tseng> ill try again tommorow night
[12:39] <sivang> tseng: minicom works for my sun machines, with what hub
[12:40] <tseng> sivang: k, do you have rj45 console?
[12:40] <sivang> tseng: no, I use a serial one
[12:40] <sivang> tseng: but this machine as a vga card, so mostly I just
use it's display. when things get rough, only the serial console helps
[12:41] <tseng> it looks like it is a sun fire v100/v120
[12:42] <bddebian> What is eclipse? There are several bugs on Malone
about it?
[12:42] <tseng> bddebian: java ide
[12:42] <sivang> bddebian: that's a java ide by IBM
=== bddebian vomits
[12:42] <bddebian> OK next :-)
[12:42] <sivang> bddebian: pluggable interface, said to be a nice
[12:43] <tseng> http://www.ossmann.com/5-in-1.html
[12:44] <tseng> haha
[12:44] <hub> tseng: sunfive ?
[12:44] <hub> holly crap
[12:45] <hub> that a real nice machine
[12:45] <hub> how did you get that?
[12:45] <tseng> my roomate brought it home one day
[12:45] <tseng> i dont think his boss realized what it was
=== sivang adds this link to my webpage
[12:48] <sivang> anyway fellas, I need to get some sleep.
[12:48] <sivang> work oin 5 hours from now
[12:48] <dholbach> sleep tight sivang
[12:48] <sivang> dholbach: thank you daniel
[12:48] <sivang> bddebian: I hope to be more successful with that package
[12:48] <sivang> (still waiting on pbuilder to check main component)
[12:49] <hub> tseng: you have a heck of a roomate
[12:49] <tseng> hub: actually, he is a fool
[12:49] <tseng> hub: which is good news for me :)
[12:49] <sivang> good night all
[12:50] <hub> yeah
[12:51] <tseng> bye sivang
[12:59] <bddebian> sivang: No worries, thx
[01:00] <LaserJock> bddebian: do you guys need my email for anything? I
just realized that my .bashrc got borked and didn't have DEBEMAIL
exported and so my libghemical package has the wrong email address
[01:02] <bddebian> LaserJock: I don't think so since azeem will probably
put the changes in in Debian and we will just sync but thanks
=== ajmitch returns
[01:03] <ajmitch> afternoon all
[01:03] <LaserJock> ok, just didn't want to have been not able to get in
touch if the needed. I thought azeem would handle
[01:03] <LaserJock> it
[01:04] <bddebian> Heya ajmitch
[01:10] <hwaara> is there an irc channel for ubuntu l10n?
[01:11] <tseng> there are loco teams
[01:11] <tseng> who often have their own channel
[01:11] <tseng> like #ubuntu-de or what have you
[01:17] <dholbach> #rosetta?
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[01:24] <LaserJock> is it normal to have so many packages in
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 ? It seems like a lot
[01:24] <bddebian> LaserJock: Blame dholbach ;-P
[01:25] <LaserJock> lol, that seems like a good way to get banned ;-)
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[01:39] <hwaara> what is the recommended size for a ubuntu installation?
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[01:41] <bddebian> Gah, there are 10 bugs alone on eclipse
[01:42] <slomo> bddebian: don't touch it... at least that was what i was
told... it's doko's
[01:43] <dholbach> good night - and happy fixing
[01:44] <bddebian> Gnight Daniel
[01:44] <bddebian> slomo: Well tell doko to fix the damn thing ;-P
[01:45] <slomo> bddebian: no :P the last time i ask him something about
it he told me to be patient
[01:45] <slomo> gn8 dholbach
[01:47] <slomo> ok, good night everybody :)
[01:48] <bddebian> Gnight slom
[01:48] <bddebian> +o
[01:48] <LaserJock> me too, good night everybody
[01:48] <bddebian> Sheesh :'-(
[01:48] <bddebian> Gnight LaserJock
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[01:52] <doko> slomo, bddebian: wrong, I did tell you not to upload the
next version, that was all. If you have fixes, ok. but I don't see any
comment in the bug reports
[01:53] <bddebian> doko: I'm only kidding. I just see several bugs on
Malone. :-) You probably don't want me touching it ;-)
[01:55] <doko> bddebian: add the fixes to the reports
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[02:15] <bddebian> doko: You know ada?
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[02:22] <marcin_ant> hi guys - I got short and simple question to you
[02:23] <marcin_ant> what should I put into 'Maintainer' line of
'control' file?
[02:23] <marcin_ant> who is maintainter - me? if I create package?
[02:24] <bddebian> marcin_ant: Sounds good :-)
[02:24] <marcin_ant> bddebian: hmm so maintainer = packager?
[02:25] <marcin_ant> bddebian: and what if I want just modify package?
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[02:25] <bddebian> marcin_ant: Usually you leave the maintainer and just
add a changelog entry
[02:25] <marcin_ant> bddebian: and there already is some name in
'Maintainer' section?
[02:25] <bddebian> marcin_ant: There has been some discussion about
changing the maintainer stuff for Ubuntu and that may happen in breezy+1
I don't know.
[02:25] <marcin_ant> bddebian: ok
[02:26] <marcin_ant> bddebian: anyway if I create some new package and
there is no maintainter yet
[02:26] <marcin_ant> bddebian: then I can put my name in this section -
[02:26] <bddebian> Should be fine
[02:27] <marcin_ant> bddebian: (not 'source' maintainter - like hmm for
example - Davyd for gnome-applets or something?)
[02:27] <marcin_ant> bddebian: btw, some 'personal' question ;)
[02:28] <marcin_ant> bddebian: do you work for Canonical?
[02:28] <bddebian> marcin_ant: No, you can just be the "package
[02:28] <bddebian> No, I don't work for Canonical. I wish :-)
[02:30] <marcin_ant> bddebian: heh I thought that they pay you for
support on this channel and development - or something :)
[02:30] <marcin_ant> bddebian: 'cause I can see that you spend really a
lot of time here
[02:30] <bddebian> I just have no life ;-)
[02:32] <marcin_ant> bddebian: LOL
[02:32] <marcin_ant> bddebian: I'm talking with bot ;)
[02:33] <marcin_ant> bddebian: never thought that so advanced bots are
available already :D
[02:33] <bddebian> heh
[02:33] <marcin_ant> bddebian: just joking
[02:34] <marcin_ant> bddebian: but in fact when I see some guys hanging
on *ubuntu channels all day I always wonder what do they do as their job,
how do they make money etc.
[02:35] <bddebian> I'm an IT Manager for a small flavor company
[02:36] <marcin_ant> bddebian: related with linux? (this company)
[02:37] <bddebian> Not hardly. We're an all MS shop :-)
[02:38] <marcin_ant> hehe
[02:38] <marcin_ant> so 'typical way' you make money on MS and use Linux
as hobby?
[02:39] <bddebian> Pretty much unfortunately
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[02:41] <marcin_ant> hmm I wish I could to find a good way to make money
on linux/ubuntu...
[02:41] <bddebian> Don't we all ;-)
[02:43] <marcin_ant> :>
[02:45] <ajmitch> most of us here probably make nothing on our work :)
[02:46] <crimsun> bddebian: I'm around for ~5 minutes (going to the
airport to pick up my sister; I just drove back from Atlanta)
[02:46] <crimsun> bddebian: what's needed?
[02:46] <ajmitch> hi crimsun
[02:46] <crimsun> hi ajmitch
[02:47] <crimsun> Lathiat: my hunch is a config.{guess,sub} issue, but I
haven't had time to debug; I've been out of town.
[02:47] <bddebian> Heya crimsun . Just wondering about Malone 2928
[02:48] <crimsun> bddebian: (looking).
[02:48] <crimsun> hmm, I presume the reporter means "...to shutdown or
reboot the computer"
[02:49] <crimsun> (the Xfce4 modifier there doesn't really make sense)
[02:49] <bddebian> Aye.
[02:50] <crimsun> hmph, I wonder how that can be rigged
[02:50] <bddebian> If it's a valid request, I can try to poke around
[02:52] <crimsun> I think it's valid; you may want to poll #xubuntu
(might be quiet at this day/hour) and/or xubuntu-devel list
[02:52] <bddebian> OK
[02:52] <bddebian> I think I'm just gonna play video games tonight at
this rate.. :-)
[02:52] <crimsun> though Xfce isn't semantically tied to how the
reboot/shutdown works from within GNOME, it makes sense to allow it
without a gksudo or something
[02:53] <pef> bye !
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[02:53] <bddebian> Later pef
[02:53] <crimsun> ok, disappearing for a bit, be back later.
[02:54] <bddebian> Later crimsun, have "fun" ;-)
[03:00] <ajmitch> ok, finished watching movie, now what bugs should I
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[03:03] <bddebian> ajmitch: All of them
[03:03] <bddebian> ajmitch: Do you know ada? :-)
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[03:05] <amalthea> how do i solve this error: "E: failed to find
/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create
your base tarball yet?
[03:05] <amalthea> "
[03:05] <amalthea> when running sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
[03:06] <amalthea> i've run pbuilder create
[03:15] <amalthea> please? we're having trouble getting started
developing here.
[03:15] <amalthea> how can we resolve this problem? "E: failed to find
/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz, have you done <pbuilder create> to create
your base tarball yet?
[03:19] <seth_k|lappy> you must've not run "sudo pbuilder create"
[03:20] <amalthea> we did, we ran "sudo pbuilder create --distribution
[03:23] <seth_k|lappy> did you follow
[03:23] <seth_k|lappy> you have to create for Hoary, then update to
[03:23] <amalthea> ah ok, i'll try that then
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[03:57] <amalthea> what's the easiest way to find out in which package a
given string is (in order to localize it / correct it)?
[03:57] <bddebian> amalthea: ??
[03:57] <amalthea> what?
[03:57] <bddebian> "which package a given string is" ??
[03:58] <amalthea> I am using ubuntu. I find a typo in the translation
somewhere. How do I find out to which package I have to go?
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[04:01] <bddebian> Uhm, whatever package you found the typo in?
[04:02] <amalthea> That is the whole point of my question. If I don't
know what package I am in?
[04:03] <amalthea> For example I'm setting some preference in the ubuntu
system... how the heck do I know which package it is?
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[04:12] <ajmitch> actually the point of the system is that you don't know
what package you're in, but that it appears as a whole :)
[04:13] <amalthea> yeah but it doesn't make it easier for me when I want
to quickly correct a grammatical error in the translation :)
[04:13] <amalthea> ajmitch, do you have any suggestion ?
[04:14] <ajmitch> many applications should have 'translate this
application' in the help menu now if they're part of main
[04:15] <amalthea> ok, so if JoeBlow makes an application, this menu
won't be in it?
[04:15] <amalthea> "Translate this app" is _only_ in apps that ubuntu
people translate?
[04:16] <ajmitch> only in those apps that have launchpad integration
[04:18] <amalthea> ok
[04:18] <amalthea> ajmitch, so how come Firefox has that menuitem?
[04:19] <tseng> because we added it
[04:19] <amalthea> to sum it up, I'm confused about which applications
ubuntu people translate and which translations that are made by other
[04:19] <ajmitch> part of the 'ubunut experience' :)
[04:19] <tseng> it doesnt matter who translates it
[04:20] <tseng> we automatically merge translations from upstream and
ubuntu together
[04:20] <ajmitch> and contribute translations back upstream
[04:20] <amalthea> so if I translate one string in firefox, and the rest
comes from the mozilla l10n project...
[04:21] <amalthea> how does that work? they are merged?
[04:21] <tseng> yes.
[04:22] <amalthea> isn't it easier if you have a clear division between
projects that we translate and then projects that others translate?
[04:22] <amalthea> maybe it's just me being confused here...
[04:22] <tseng> it is
[04:22] <amalthea> ok...?
[04:22] <ajmitch> why divide it up like that?
[04:22] <tseng> ok listen
[04:23] <tseng> the current i18n l10n whatever you want to call it system
is geeky
[04:23] <tseng> you need technically proficient people to get into
translating upstream this way
[04:23] <tseng> rosetta is a tool to let anyone translate strings in an
application with a simple web interface
[04:23] <tseng> and it automates merging with the traditional po files
[04:24] <tseng> upstream and downstream and wherever you want
[04:24] <tseng> you are looking for a problem that isnt here
[04:25] <amalthea> the rosetta tool is great
[04:25] <tseng> but?
[04:26] <amalthea> but some translations are made by the ubuntu project,
and some by others. why can I go to launchpad and translate a project
that 1) already is translated elsewhere and 2) is not a ubuntu project?
[04:26] <tseng> sigh
[04:26] <tseng> did you look at rosetta yet
[04:26] <amalthea> I've already used it man :)
[04:27] <tseng> then you would know that it includes upstream
[04:27] <tseng> https://launchpad.net/products/abiword/+translations
[04:27] <tseng> note the color codes
[04:27] <ajmitch> and you can get other upstream projects imported into
rosetta, iirc
[04:28] <tseng> it works on top of upstream strings
[04:28] <tseng> not in place of them
[04:29] <tseng> if you are still concerned you should talk to the rosetta
mailing list
[04:30] <tseng> im sure they could better explain the synchronization
[04:31] <amalthea> ok, I think the whole upstream thing is what I'm
[04:31] <amalthea> do you have a page or something describing it? tried
searching the wiki without luck
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[04:32] <amalthea> basically I'm confused about the division between
"what belongs to ubuntu" and "what is just included in ubuntu but is
maintained on other sites"
[04:32] <tseng>
[04:33] <tseng>
[04:33] <tseng> some use cases
[04:33] <tseng> most of luanchpad doesnt have thorough documentation yet,
like i said you can ask the mailing list for specifics
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[04:56] <amalthea> in which package do i find the "shut down"-string in
the log out-dialogue window?
[04:56] <amalthea> (in launchpad/rosetta that is)
[04:57] <ajmitch> gdm or gnome-session, I guess
[05:04] <amalthea> what is the difference between hibernate and suspend?
[05:04] <amalthea> when logging out?
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[05:08] <Amaranth> hibernate turns the computer off completely
[05:08] <Amaranth> suspend just puts it in low-power mode, iirc
[05:08] <Amaranth> suspend-to-ram, it's supposed to only use as much
power as the RAM needs to keep the information
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[05:15] <amalthea> so, what's the difference between shut down and
[05:16] <Amaranth> hibernate saves your current state to swap and then
resumes it when you turn the computer back on, so other than the time
needed to reload that state it's like you never turned the computer off
[05:17] <amalthea> also, when i choose hibernate the computer is locked,
not shutted down
[05:17] <Amaranth> err
[05:17] <amalthea> i.e. i get a screensave with a lock function
[05:18] <Amaranth> yeah, that's not what is supposed to happen
[05:18] <amalthea> so why does it?
[05:18] <Amaranth> what am i, god? ;)
[05:19] <Amaranth> i have no idea, i only know the 10,000 ft view of how
all this stuff works
[05:19] <amalthea> so it's just a bug, right?
[05:19] <Amaranth> the details are mostly lost on me
[05:19] <Amaranth> yeah, i'd say so
[05:19] <amalthea> well, thanks for the help
[05:21] <bmonty> amalthea: you have to enable suspend to RAM in
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[05:47] <bddebian> Fuck an hour and a half to build lyx only to FTBFS :-(
[05:48] <Lathiat> bddebian: heh
[05:48] <bddebian> Hey, that's not funny :-)
[05:49] <Lathiat> \sh_away: gah
[05:50] <Lathiat> \sh_away: libofx ->
[05:50] <Lathiat> \sh_away: .la wasnt the only file
[05:50] <Lathiat> \sh_away: /usr/lib/libofx.a
[05:50] <bmonty> bddebian: is lyx FTBFS on i386? It was working a week
[05:51] <bmonty> and yeah it takes awhile to compile
[05:51] <bmonty> I had to put up with that just to add a desktop file and
icon :(
[05:51] <bddebian> bmonty: Aye. I was just trying to add an xml file for
mime types :-)
[05:52] <bmonty> like I said...annoying!
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[06:07] <crimsun> no love for delayed flights and lost luggage, no sir.
[06:08] <tritium> hey crimsun. On travel?
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[06:08] <crimsun> tritium: hi. Yep.
[06:08] <bddebian> crimsun: Amen to that
[06:08] <tritium> crimsun: sorry to hear about the problemw
[06:08] <tritium> problems
[06:09] <crimsun> just a bit o' clothing, nothing much.
[06:10] <bmonty> crimsun: I always get a good chuckle at the jackasses
they hire to drive my luggage out to the house
[06:16] <tritium> Where are you off to, crimsun?
[06:17] <crimsun> tritium: back from Atlanta
[06:17] <crimsun> I had to pick up my sister from the airport, and NWA
lost her luggage - shipped it to LAX instead of GSO.
[06:18] <tritium> yikes
[06:18] <tritium> Isn't Atlanta a bit far from IBM?
[06:18] <crimsun> Then they discovered that they _think_ they shipped it
to LAX.
[06:18] <crimsun> (I'm in NC currently with the university.)
[06:19] <tritium> Oh, I didn't realize you were still with the
university. I thought the IBM job was a permanent move.
=== bmonty curses at this friggin cdbs package
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[06:27] <bmonty> bddebian: feel like uploading a package for me?
[06:29] <bddebian> bmonty: Sure
[06:29] <bmonty> can I email you a debdiff?
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[06:29] <bddebian> Sure
[06:29] <bddebian> bddebian@comcast.net
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[06:32] <bmonty> sent
[06:34] <bmonty> what is the convention to mark a package as fixed on the
FTBFS pages?
[06:36] <bddebian> Good freakin' question :-0
[06:37] <Lathiat> delete it?
[06:37] <Lathiat> make sure you wait till its uploaded
[06:37] <Amaranth> remove it from the list and/or write something next to
[06:37] <Lathiat> and that it builds on all arches
[06:37] <Lathiat> or at least, mark it off the arches it does build on
[06:38] <bmonty> k
[06:39] <bddebian> bmonty: Uploaded
[06:39] <bmonty> thanks, bddebian
[06:39] <bddebian> NP, gotta be good for SOMETHING ;-)
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[06:40] <Lathiat> thats what you think
[06:40] <bmonty> ok, then get me a beer :)
[06:40] <Lathiat> he'll probably forget to uncap it ;p
[06:40] <Lathiat> Yagisan: what city are you in?
[06:41] <bmonty> or make a pour with too much head
[06:41] <Lathiat> haha
[06:41] <Lathiat> poor bddebian
=== bmonty likes his guiness with a shamrock in the head
[06:41] <Yagisan> Lathiat: Sydney
[06:42] <Lathiat> Yagisan: ah cool
[06:42] <Lathiat> Yagisan: <-- perth
[06:42] <Yagisan> Lathiat: Specifically, Lidcombe
[06:42] <Yagisan> Lathiat: cool - I had my business cards shipped from
Perth, they were better then the local businesses
[06:43] <bmonty> seems like there are lots of aussies hacking on Ubuntu
[06:43] <bddebian> Heh
[06:44] <Yagisan> really - your not one too :-P
[06:44] <Lathiat> Yagisan: lol
[06:44] <Yagisan> anyone here familiar with qemu ?
[06:45] <bmonty> who me? I would never make that claim :)
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=== Yagisan really wants multi-client-arch support in ltsp
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[06:48] <Yagisan> can anyone here build powerpc chroots ?
[06:48] <Yagisan> I got a "chroot: cannot run command `mount': No such
file or directory"
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[06:50] <Yagisan> when is dapper out ?
[06:51] <bmonty> this month
[06:51] <bmonty> Yagisan: I think that error happens if you forget to
delete one of the files when you copy in the apt configuration
[06:51] <bmonty> did you use the wiki instructions?
[06:52] <Yagisan> bmonty: I ran the standard debootstrap script: sudo
debootstrap --arch powerpc breezy powerpc
[06:53] <Yagisan> bmonty: the thing is I can run the individual programs
- but debootstrap failed on me
[06:53] <Yagisan> bmonty: and I correctly set up binfmt_misc
[06:53] <bmonty> Yagisan: check out the pbuilder howto in the wiki
[06:54] <bmonty> not sure if that will help...I don't use debootstrap
[06:54] <Yagisan> bmonty: Thanks - I double checked that first though
[06:56] <Yagisan> bmonty: I'm trying to figure out if my bug is in
debootstrap, qemu or is pebac
[06:56] <Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$ uname -a
[06:56] <Yagisan> Linux doomguy 2.6.12-9-amd64-k8 #1 Thu Oct 6 11:47:16
BST 2005 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[06:57] <Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$ file
[06:57] <Yagisan> /opt/ltsp/powerpc/bin/pwd: ELF 32-bit MSB executable,
PowerPC or cisco 4500, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically
linked (uses shared libs), stripped
[06:57] <Yagisan> bmonty: (amd64)jamie@doomguy:/opt/ltsp$
[06:57] <Yagisan> /opt/ltsp
[06:57] <bmonty> cool
[06:58] <Yagisan> bmonty:
http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17297 I'm trying to get "non-
trivial" support going
[06:59] <bmonty> Yagisan: looks over my head...about the only thing I
know about ltsp is what is stands for
[07:00] <Yagisan> bmonty: no worries - I need it working for work so I
did the trivial stuff quickly - now for the non-trivial
[07:01] <Yagisan> bmonty: who knows - I may get my own full multi-arch
going :)
[07:01] <bmonty> this would allow you to have a different arch on the
client than what is on the server?
[07:01] <bmonty> or is it to get the software to build for other arches?
[07:02] <Yagisan> bmonty: It's for clients that are different to the
[07:02] <Yagisan> bmonty: future plans are to expand it to build for non-
native arch
[07:04] <Yagisan> bmonty: At work I have one 2GHz amd64 box - and several
233-333MHz P2/K62 boxes. standard ubuntu ltsp didn't support that
[07:04] <bmonty> at least you aren't locked into a single vendor for
terminals :)
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[07:05] <Yagisan> bmonty: that is one of the best reasons - I'm trying to
add support for powerpc, sparc, arm and i386 on various hosts
[07:06] <Yagisan> bmonty: started with powerpc as ubuntu supports that
[07:06] <bmonty> I've been trying to get some of network guys to look at
terminal servers at my work
[07:06] <bmonty> our workstations are locked down so hard they might as
well be terminals
[07:08] <Yagisan> bmonty: the only issues I've found are 1) opengl is
software only so far
[07:08] <Yagisan> 2) depending on how many clients you have you may need
to upgrade some network infrastructure
[07:09] <Yagisan> bmonty: that means - no multiple terminals running
wesnoth or vegastrike for me
[07:09] <bmonty> Yagisan: opengl won't be an issue...and I think
scalability would be the biggest problem to solve.
[07:09] <Yagisan> bmonty: depending on your workload opengl is an issue -
when you run an opengl app it chews bandwidth
[07:10] <bmonty> I mean...opengl isn't an issue because it wouldn't be
[07:10] <Yagisan> bmonty: I did some tests in 2004 - scalablity isn't to
much of a problem
[07:11] <bmonty> what was the bandwidth of the network?
[07:11] <Yagisan> bmonty: I use it, and iirc oo2.org uses opengl
[07:11] <bmonty> Yagisan: it would be running windows
[07:11] <Yagisan> bmonty: 100Mbps, full duplex - 1 server - 30 clients
for the demo
[07:12] <bmonty> not bad
[07:12] <Yagisan> bmonty: I wanted Gige on the server - but I could not
"borrow" a switch in time
[07:12] <Yagisan> but that was all linux based
[07:13] <bmonty> if they ever deployed it they would use windows terminal
[07:13] <Yagisan> windows uses a more bandwidth and has trouble with lots
of clients
[07:14] <bmonty> Yagisan: yeah, I don't think they are quite production
quality yet
[07:14] <bmonty> no matter what the hype is
[07:14] <Yagisan> bmonty: the resources it (windows) needs on the server
for terminal services is massive compared to ltsp
[07:15] <bmonty> no doubt...they want you to buy more servers and thus
more terminal server licenses
[07:16] <Yagisan> bmonty: wine is working well at the moment - have you
tried the "essential" apps on that ?
[07:16] <bmonty> unfortunately linux is not an option
[07:17] <Yagisan> bmonty: I had a few clients playing "Total
Annilihation" via wine on ltsp yesterday to show off the trivial multi-
client-arch support
[07:17] <Yagisan> bmonty: that sucks
[07:17] <bmonty> cool...I might have to try playing with that at home
once I get OpenLDAP and kerberos working
[07:17] <bmonty> (my current project)
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[07:18] <bmonty> brb
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[07:22] <bddebian> Gnight folks
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[07:37] <bmonty> good night everyone
[07:38] <Yagisan> bmonty: Good night
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[07:38] <x_madbot> rbelem_, ping
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[08:00] <Kyral> GoodNight guys and gals. If all goes well, tomarrow you
may see one of my original creations hit REVU
[08:08] <sivang> Kyral: night :) (I wonder what is that creation of
[08:35] <jmg> ugh eric docbrowser is broken
=== jmg checks out source
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[09:12] <xophEr> I wonder if someone would like to implement this into
ubuntu: http://sensors-applet.sourceforge.net/ there are debs available
for debian but to have it in the ubu-repos would be nice :) This is a
gnome-panel applet that shows the cpu temp, fan speeds and voltage
[09:14] <robitaille> it seems to be available in sid:
[09:14] <xophEr> I know it is, but sid is not ubuntu ;)
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[09:24] <tritium> ajmitch: did your latest synced package already build?
Mine did, minus the ia64...
[09:28] <tritium> Well, I'll check in the morning. Good night.
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[09:34] <\sh> moins
[09:34] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[09:36] <ajmitch> I have to get working, my bug count has fallen below
bddebian's again
[09:36] <Lathiat> haha
[09:37] <ajmitch> mm, not good
[09:38] <ajmitch> most of the last kde upload is failing to build
[09:38] <Lathiat> oh nice
[09:38] <Lathiat> is it just stuff waiting for new deps?
[09:38] <ajmitch> 808 After installing, the following source
dependencies are still unsatisfied:
[09:38] <ajmitch> 809 libarts1-dev(inst 1.4.2-0ubuntu3 ! >= wanted
[09:39] <ajmitch> so just building out of order
[09:39] <Lathiat> how did it install the deps in the first place?
[09:39] <\sh> it will recompile
[09:40] <Lathiat> if it had a versioned dep shouldnt it have failed off
the start?
[09:40] <ajmitch> \sh: yeah, but it would be nice to build on the first
try, this close to release
[09:40] <ajmitch> Lathiat: I would have thought so
[09:40] <ajmitch> not our problem anyway
[09:40] <\sh> now I have to get a small patch in irssi-text because I
forgot about it since 3 months
[09:40] <Lathiat> ajmitch: its mark and riddel's funeral :)
[09:40] <Lathiat> \sh: whats it do?
[09:40] <\sh> Lathiat: fixes a typo in irssi.1 ,-)
[09:40] <Lathiat> heh
[09:41] <\sh> a very important fix ,-)
[09:41] <Lathiat> the pppoeconf bug is still buggered, damnit
[09:41] <ajmitch> \sh: good luck sneaking it past mdz :P
[09:41] <\sh> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11459
[09:42] <\sh> well...I had more important stuff to do then fixing typos
[09:42] <ajmitch> \sh: it might break the release!
[09:42] <\sh> hahaha
[09:42] <\sh> shit...we have to postpone the release because of a typo in
a manpage...hell...
=== ajmitch can see it now on /. - breezy release delayed a weel due to
manual typo
[09:42] <ajmitch> s/weel/week/
[09:43] <ajmitch> anyway, avahi 0.5.2 is in, so that's all that matters
[09:43] <\sh> a month...because this typo breaks gcc4 and won't compile
on amd64 ,-)
[09:43] <Lathiat>
[09:43] <ajmitch> well considering how many devs use irssi it's probably
release critical :)
[09:45] <Lathiat> haha
[09:46] <\sh> I'll get all the blame
[09:47] <ajmitch> of course
[09:47] <ajmitch> they'll have to sack you ;)
[09:47] <\sh> well...approved ;)
[09:48] <ajmitch> mm, /.
[09:48] <ajmitch> expensive satellite lost on launch ;)
[09:48] <ajmitch> obviously a conspiracy to cover up global warming ;)
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[09:50] <pef> hello
[09:51] <\sh> wow..alan parsons project - Eye in the Sky --> Early in the
morning means, this will be a good day
[09:56] <\sh> and irssi is uploaded now
[09:57] <ajmitch> yay
[10:04] <xophEr> Is there going to be a gnome clipboard daemon ? or is
there already :)
[10:05] <spayne> i thought it was a feaure of 2.12
[10:05] <spayne> but it doesn't work for me
[10:05] <spayne> because i copy something and close the app
[10:05] <spayne> it is gnome
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[10:21] <ajmitch> time for me to do an RC install
[10:21] <ajmitch> once I find a blank cd :)
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[10:23] <chx> hi. How can I get a module (ATXP1) into Universe?
[10:24] <ajmitch> a module?
[10:24] <chx> it's very useful for those who happen who have an Attansic
ATXP1 chip on their motherboard, very popular VRM one
[10:24] <chx> yes, a module
[10:24] <ajmitch> a kernel module, you mean?
[10:24] <chx> yes, yes
[10:24] <chx> i downloaded, make && make install, works nicely.
[10:24] <ajmitch> has someone made a package of it?
[10:26] <chx> hmmmm not
[10:27] <chx> and as I google around this will be moot soon
[10:27] <chx> patch-2.6.13-rc1-git2 contains the atxp1 driver :)
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[10:31] <ajmitch> well that was quick...
[10:33] <sivang> remorning all
=== dooglus whispers "bug 2502" (small typo remaining) to \sh
[10:43] <ajmitch> hi sivang, \sh (again), dooglus
[10:43] <dooglus> hi
[10:45] <dooglus> I notice that a very few packages break their own
md5sums using a post-install script. should I report them?
[10:45] <dooglus> it means that "debsums -s" always mentions them
[10:45] <dooglus> an example is: $ debsums -s capplets-data
[10:45] <dooglus> debsums: checksum mismatch capplets-data file
[10:45] <ajmitch> considering how the use of debsums isn't *that*
[10:45] <ajmitch> you'd be filing a lot of wishlist bugs
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[11:06] <sivang> \sh: Can I help out on the UnivserseFTBS with a breezy
pbuilder under hoary?
[11:07] <crimsun> sivang: absolutely
[11:08] <sivang> crimsun: k, btw, does anybody know where to get the
vmware any-to-any patch to make it work under breezy?
[11:09] <sivang> s/anybody/you/
[11:09] <xophEr> sivang, I can send it to you
[11:09] <\sh> sivang: sure
[11:10] <sivang> xophEr: or tell me where to get it from on the web =)
[11:10] <xophEr> sivang, here http://ftp.cvut.cz/vmware/
[11:25] <\sh> fixing the rest of universe now ;)
[11:28] <ajmitch> \sh: good, I hope you have it fixed by the time I get
up tomorrow ;)
[11:28] <\sh> ajmitch: lol...
[11:28] <\sh> ajmitch: help me dude ;)
[11:28] <\sh> we only have <3 days ;)
[11:30] <\sh> <4days sry
[11:30] <ajmitch> plenty of time for you to work
[11:31] <\sh> only today...tomorrow I have a shitload of work in the
office :(
[11:31] <\sh> argl...and now I forgot the right debuild call
[11:32] <\sh> -v 1.12.1-2ubuntu2 -S *grmpf*
[11:32] <\sh> anyways
[11:33] <ajmitch> no -sa?
[11:34] <\sh> fck
[11:34] <\sh> u see...
[11:34] <ajmitch> usually if you need -v, you need -sa :)
[11:34] <\sh> yes
[11:34] <\sh> I forgot this all *grmpf*
[11:34] <ajmitch> it's ok, you can upload again now ;)
[11:35] <\sh> gnarf
[11:39] <sivang> xophEr: that a binary patch? which file from there to
[11:43] <sivang> xophEr: ah thank you, I didn't realize I had dcc xfer
[11:43] <xophEr> :)
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[11:57] <\sh> bmonty_laptop: ping
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[12:10] <tseng> Lathiat: i could do partial views in smarty, right?
[12:10] <Lathiat> tseng: yes
[12:11] <tseng> Lathiat: just call the "render" thing multiple times
[12:11] <Lathiat> i just include a template from anotehr template
[12:11] <tseng> oh
[12:11] <tseng> that works too
[12:11] <Lathiat> you can also call render on multiple templates
[12:11] <tseng> if i include another template
[12:11] <tseng> it runs the right controller code?
[12:11] <tseng> im talking about splitting up a common segment
[12:11] <ajmitch> I really have to remove gnome-screensaver sometime soon
[12:12] <tseng> i draw a very similar table over and over
[12:12] <tseng> ajmitch: good one
[12:12] <Lathiat> tseng: so, i includea c mmon php file
[12:12] <Lathiat> *common
[12:12] <\sh> bah
[12:12] <\sh> xkeycaps
[12:12] <Lathiat> so i guess i'd set that kinda stuff up there
[12:12] <Lathiat> or something
[12:12] <ajmitch> tseng: only way I can unlock the screen at the moment
is gnome-screensaver-command --deactivate via ssh
[12:12] <\sh> fixed one bug and catch another
[12:12] <Lathiat> smarty doesnt really link controllers and views
[12:12] <Lathiat> you just render templates
[12:12] <Lathiat> you could include some php from two files to acheive
that effect
[12:13] <tseng> a bit kludgey, but better than the six copies i have
intermixed with other php atm
[12:13] <Lathiat> right
[12:13] <tseng> one thing we'll see how well it works is calling ajax
functions on a partial template
[12:14] <tseng> and refilling a div
[12:14] <tseng> we'll see tommorow :)
[12:14] <tseng> i am busy porting applications to breezy
[12:15] <Lathiat> heh
[12:15] <\sh> ok..I'll fix now xkeycaps, have a shower afterwards, and a
beer ,)
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[12:17] <\sh> wow fixed
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[12:20] <zakame> eh? xtla isn't in Ubuntu?
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[12:43] <zakame> is there a MOTUEmacs team?
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[12:44] <vrln> the fam package in universe seems broken, at least
dependency wise
[12:45] <zakame> how borken?
[12:45] <vrln> http://pastebin.com/387914
[12:45] <vrln> it wants to remove a huge amount of packages if I try to
install it
[12:46] <zakame> gaah, seems there's a conflict... how about if you try
to install only portmap?
[12:47] <vrln> that works fine
[12:47] <zakame> hmm, then I guess its the fam that's causing the
[12:50] <zakame> iirc gnome packages use gamin
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[12:51] <zakame> hi slomo
[12:51] <\sh> re and moins slomo :)
[12:51] <tseng> gamin is meant to be compatible with fam
[12:51] <slomo> hi zakame
[12:52] <slomo> tseng: yes
[12:52] <zakame> tseng: yep
[12:52] <tseng> thats for sh
[12:52] <\sh> whats for me? ,-)
[12:53] <tseng> sigh
[12:53] <tseng> < tseng> gamin is meant to be compatible with fam
[12:53] <\sh> hmmm
[12:53] <zakame> lighttpd also (optionally) depends on fam, but it can
also use gamin :)
[12:53] <tseng> ew lighttpd
[12:53] <\sh> tseng: nothing for me...I think u meant vrln
[12:54] <tseng> i used that for awhile, it does evil things
[12:54] <zakame> tseng: how evil?
[12:54] <tseng> i was using pyblosxom cgi
[12:54] <tseng> and it started sending messed up headers
[12:54] <vrln> tseng: ah, it's just that beep-media-player-x (the new
cairo version which will be out soonish I think) wants fam, complains
about fam.h missing
[12:54] <zakame> ah
[12:54] <tseng> and somehow getting a bunch of stupid #s injected into my
[12:55] <vrln> and it doesn't seem to be able to use gamin at all
[12:55] <tseng> uh
[12:55] <zakame> hmmm, that's interesting, putting that in my notes
[12:55] <tseng> libgamin-dev includes fam.h
[12:56] <zakame> yep... and in my case, that required pkg-config as well
[12:56] <vrln> tseng: oh - indeed - thanks
[12:58] <\sh> oh well...time for a beer
[01:03] <slomo> \sh: a beer that early in the morning? ;)
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[01:04] <\sh> slomo: I'm awake since 7 ;)
[01:04] <\sh> slomo: and it's sunday ;)
[01:04] <slomo> i'm awake since 15 minutes ;)
[01:06] <\sh> slomo: ah..lazy lazy ;)
[01:06] <\sh> slomo: i just compiled
[01:06] <\sh> shermann@shermann-laptop:~/pbuilder/result/breezy$ du -c -m
[01:06] <\sh> 211     .
[01:06] <\sh> 211     insgesamt
[01:06] <\sh> until now ;)
[01:07] <\sh> just joking ;)
[01:07] <slomo> hmm... mine is 572 mb ;)
[01:08] <zakame> hmm.. is there any reason why xtla isn't in universe,
when it's in debian sid? :)
[01:08] <\sh> zakame: because noone requested it?
[01:08] <\sh> what is xtla anyways?
[01:08] <zakame> \sh: its in UniverseCandidates
[01:09] <zakame> \sh: an Emacs interface to Arch/Bazaar
[01:10] <\sh> zakame: so check it please if it's compiling on breezy and
then we could request a sync just before release
[01:11] <zakame> \sh: ok, thanks =)
[01:11] <xophEr> you guys know why I cant change the ubuntu-logo in the
gnome-panel to something else? Ive tried replacing and renaming the
/usr/share/pixmaps/gnome-logo-icon-transparent.png but no effect.. worked
before though, dont know why it doesnt work know.. all I did was a dist-
upgrade :)
[01:11] <\sh> zakame: and give me an update
[01:12] <\sh> zakame: would be cool if you have a result before 13:00
[01:13] <zakame> \sh: waah! No emacs yet for breezy, and I'm on a
dialup! :(
[01:13] <\sh> zakame: uh..ok..I'm just fixing xemacs21 and check xtla
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[01:14] <\sh> moins dholbach
[01:14] <zakame> \sh: I'll try to build it then :)
[01:14] <dholbach> hi
[01:14] <dholbach> hey \sh :)
[01:15] <zakame> heya dholbach :)
[01:15] <\sh> zakame: no problem...I'll do it
[01:15] <dholbach> zakame: hey :)
[01:15] <zakame> \sh: thanks again! :)
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[01:16] <\sh> well...listening to SKY FM - 80ies internet radio...and
fixing xemacs21...that's what I need for a sunday
[01:18] <zakame> why, what's up with xemacs21?
[01:18] <\sh> xbitmaps is missing as build-deps ...but that's not all
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[01:23] <\sh> well..and when the release is done...I should clean my
[01:27] <zakame> hehe
[01:28] <\sh> or somehow get a cleaning maid ;)
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[01:32] <\sh> grmpf...
[01:32] <\sh> I need tickets for nokia night of the proms
[01:33] <\sh> Roger Daltrey, Manfred Mann, Chris Thomson, Nubya, Midge
Ure and Safri Duo...+ the normal surrounding
[01:34] <zakame> brb, havta eat() or die("starvation");
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[01:41] <\sh> ok...xemacs21 fixed
[01:46] <\sh> dholbach: do u know when the buildds are closing?
[01:48] <dholbach> some hours before
[01:49] <dholbach> for hoary i stopped uploading like 2-3 hours before
[01:49] <tseng> haha
[01:49] <\sh> k
[01:49] <\sh> I'll think we will make it ;)
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[02:11] <sivang> rehi all, back from lunch
[02:12] <\sh> hey sivang
=== \sh thinks we have to rename breezy badger ;) in Breezy "The Frh
Klsch" Badger release ,-)
[02:14] <\sh> ogra: pils or koelsch for the 14/15/16th?
[02:17] <sivang> \sh: what does it mean ? =)
[02:17] <\sh> sivang: Klsch == a local cologne beer, and Frh Klsch a
local cologne beer brand ;) this is what I'm drinking since Breezy cycle
started ,-)
[02:18] <sivang> \sh: lol, seems I need to get some myself to become more
productive. Is it helping you to keep awake?
[02:19] <\sh> sivang: haha....no the opposite of "keep awake" but it's
better for having fun during compiling ;)
[02:19] <\sh> sivang: if you wanna taste it, i can try to smuggle some to
UBZ ;)
[02:21] <sivang> \sh: you're already brining that book , I don't want to
make you carry too many stuff, and besdies I'm not a good drinker ;-)
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[02:22] <\sh> sivang: well...I'm a man, so I don't need to carry so much
of clothes ;)
[02:22] <\sh> sivang: doesn't matter...I think I can take only 2 or 3
=== xopher_ [n=xopher@a84-231-146-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined
[02:26] <tseng> Lathiat: im sold on smarty
[02:26] <tseng> Lathiat: :P
[02:27] <Lathiat> tseng: yeh? i foudn it nifty
[02:27] <tseng> it will really clean up a few things
[02:27] <\sh> smarty? php template engine?
[02:27] <tseng> and be another step closer to rails
[02:28] <tseng> it will be easier to port if things are already split up
[02:28] <tseng> \sh: yes.
[02:28] <\sh> tseng: ah..we're using it for s9y
[02:28] <tseng> awesome
[02:29] <\sh> that's why s9y is one of the best blog engines ever ;)
[02:30] <tseng> i need to figure out php OO too
[02:31] <Lathiat> yeh i tried to do php OO once
[02:31] <Lathiat> i wrote a nifty database thing
[02:31] <sivang> xopher_: do I just run runme.pl and everythign get's
patched automatically?
[02:32] <xopher_> sivang, yes
[02:32] <xopher_> then just follow directions :)
[02:32] <sivang> xopher: cool, so I will dist-upgrade now :)
=== sivang pokes sources.list
[02:32] <xopher> ^^
[02:33] <sivang> xopher: ?
[02:34] <sivang> xopher: directions told me by the runme.pl , you mean?
[02:48] <sivang> dholbach: then off to see what with bddebian's cyphesis-
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[03:01] <xopher> sivang, exactly, it tells you to run vmware-config.pl
(and asks if it should do it for you), nothing more :)
[03:02] <\sh> xopher: u updated vmware with this vmware-update-any-any
[03:02] <\sh> xopher: and set CC=gcc-3.4 before starting vmware-
[03:03] <sivang> hmm, I think we use gcc4 in breezy, so I would have to
downgrade the pkg?
[03:03] <\sh> but not for the kernel
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[03:06] <sivang> \sh: but still, vmware-config.pl would look for the 3.4
gcc no?
[03:07] <\sh> sivang: no
[03:07] <sivang> xopher: what kernel are you using your vmware with?
[03:07] <\sh> sivang: the default compiler is still gcc-4 so you have to
override it
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[03:11] <\sh> hmm..elmo will have fun this evening ;)
[03:11] <slomo> why
[03:11] <slomo> ?
[03:12] <sivang> \sh: what have you prepared for him you naughty ? :)
[03:12] <sivang> hmm
[03:12] <sivang> Preparing to replace dictionaries-common 0.24.4 (using
.../dictionaries-common_0.49.2ubuntu1_all.deb) ...
[03:12] <sivang> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
[03:12] <sivang> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
[03:12] <sivang>         LANGUAGE = "en_IL:en_US:en_GB:en",
[03:12] <sivang>         LC_ALL = (unset),
[03:12] <sivang>         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
[03:12] <sivang>     are supported and installed on your system.
[03:12] <\sh> sivang: a lot of syncs ;)
[03:12] <sivang> LOTS of those
[03:21] <xopher> \sh, yes
[03:21] <tseng> apt-get install language-pack-en
[03:21] <xopher> Im using the ubuntu stock kernel; 2.6.12-9-amd64-k8
[03:30] <sivang> is this known:
[03:30] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[03:30] <sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-
[03:30] <sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-
[03:30] <sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[03:30] <sivang> I got that in the end of the dist-upgrade
[03:31] <sivang> \sh: how can I check what went wrong?
[03:31] <\sh> sivang: hmmm....
[03:31] <\sh> sivang: check for universe or not..
[03:31] <sivang> \sh: universe is enabled for me, yes
[03:31] <slomo> sivang: libmp4v2 is mine ;) what exactly happened?
[03:31] <dholbach> what are the messages before?
[03:31] <sivang> sec
[03:32] <sivang> Preparing to replace python2.4-pycurl 7.12.3-1ubuntu1
(using .../python2.4-pycurl_7.14.0-1ubuntu1_i386.deb) ...
[03:32] <sivang> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
[03:32] <\sh> wich package?
[03:32] <sivang> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
[03:32] <sivang>         LANGUAGE = "en_IL:en_US:en_GB:en",
[03:32] <sivang>         LC_ALL = (unset),
[03:32] <sivang>         LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
[03:32] <sivang>     are supported and installed on your system.
[03:32] <sivang> perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale
[03:32] <sivang> Unpacking replacement python2.4-pycurl ...
[03:32] <dholbach> that's ok
[03:32] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[03:32] <sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-ipython_0.6.15-
[03:32] <sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-
[03:32] <sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[03:32] <slomo> sivang: apt-get -f install
[03:33] <slomo> sivang: what happens then?
[03:33] <sivang> dholbach: what's the origin for the error?
[03:33] <dholbach> the message must have been before
[03:33] <sivang> slomo: I wanted to wait before I -f install
[03:33] <sivang> slomo: possibly get some help here to track the problem
[03:33] <sivang> I also got this interesting one:
[03:34] <sivang> Preparing to replace bluefish 1.0+cvs2005021601-0ubuntu1
(using .../bluefish_1.0.1-0ubuntu3_i386.deb) ...
[03:34] <sivang> Unpacking replacement bluefish ...
[03:34] <sivang> Could not parse file '/usr/share/applications/Web-based
System Manager Remote Client.desktop': desktop entry does not start with
legal start group
[03:34] <sivang> I don't recall I ever installed a web based manager
remote client :)
[03:34] <\sh> sivang: bluefish? works here
[03:34] <Lathiat> i had a problem with mp4v2
[03:35] <Lathiat> i had marillat in my sources.list
[03:35] <Lathiat> and it had a newer version that didnt play nice with
[03:35] <sivang> I don't have marillat in my sources
[03:35] <Lathiat> ok then :)
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=== sivang wants to track the problem, who knows maybe he can fix them :)
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[03:35] <slomo> Lathiat: that marillat problem is solved
[03:35] <ivoks> hi
[03:36] <sivang> so guys, before -f installing, how can I check what went
wrong? why didn't dpkg say anything ?
[03:36] <ivoks> for what package?
[03:36] <sivang> 15:32 < sivang> Errors were encountered while
[03:36] <sivang> 15:32 < sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/python2.4-
[03:36] <dholbach> did you do apt-get install -f?
[03:36] <sivang> 15:32 < sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-
[03:37] <sivang> 15:32 < sivang> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an
error code (1)
[03:37] <sivang> ^^^ ivoks
[03:37] <sivang> dholbach: I can do , but then if it solves it we loose
the bug no?
[03:37] <dholbach> the REAL error message must have been before
[03:37] <ivoks> don't force it
[03:37] <dholbach> that's only the summary
[03:37] <sivang> ivoks: I don't want to :)
[03:37] <sivang> but dholbach suggested already 2 times
[03:37] <tseng> sivang: scroll up looking for beep
[03:37] <dholbach> ????
[03:37] <dholbach> i didnt
[03:37] <ivoks> sivang: try installing dpkg -i
[03:37] <dholbach> i said you should have a look what happened before
[03:37] <ivoks> sivang: that will tell you what's the problem
[03:38] <tseng> you mean dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-
[03:38] <dholbach> those two packages have no conflicting files
[03:38] <dholbach> i just checked that
[03:38] <sivang> dholbach: ok, that's what was before:
[03:38] <sivang> Unpacking replacement ubuntu-docs ...
[03:38] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/navig': Directory not empty
[03:38] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/callouts': Directory not empty
[03:38] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-docs/images/admon': Directory not empty
[03:38] <sivang> but it doesn't seem related
[03:38] <dholbach> nothing else?
[03:38] <tseng> those are warnings
[03:38] <sivang> dholbach: nope
[03:39] <dholbach> nothing concerning those two packages in question?
[03:39] <ivoks> sivang: and it installs cleanly then?
[03:39] <sivang> also:
[03:39] <sivang> Unpacking replacement python-epydoc ...
[03:39] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc/test': Directory not empty
[03:39] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc/markup': Directory not empty
[03:39] <ivoks> sivang: that's ubuntu-docs
[03:39] <sivang> dpkg: warning - unable to delete old directory
`/usr/lib/site-python/epydoc': Directory not empty
[03:39] <ivoks> sivang: STOP!
[03:39] <sivang> yes :)
[03:39] <ivoks> sivang: with what package you have problem?
[03:39] <ivoks> you pasted here 4 packages..
[03:39] <ivoks> you have problems only with one
[03:39] <sivang> ivoks: < sivang> 15:32 < sivang>
[03:39] <sivang> 15:36 < sivang> 15:32 < sivang>
[03:39] <ivoks> wich one?
[03:39] <sivang> 15:36 < sivang> 15:32 < sivang> E: Sub-process
/usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[03:40] <sivang> /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-0_2.0.0
[03:40] <ivoks> sivang: only one of them produces error
[03:40] <sivang> so the last one?
[03:40] <sivang> which is /var/cache/apt/archives/libmp4v2-
0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu1_i386.deb ?
[03:40] <ivoks> sivang: i would bet on last one, yes
[03:40] <sivang> that was the last package wanted to install
[03:40] <ivoks> sivang: try dpkg -i that package
[03:40] <ivoks> sivang: and only that!
[03:40] <ivoks> not ubuntu-doc
[03:41] <sivang> ivoks: that's what I'm doing now
[03:41] <ivoks> sivang: why are you pasting warnings from ubuntu-doc
[03:41] <ivoks> and python-epydoc?
[03:41] <sivang> ivoks: sorry, I thought it may have been related, I
didn't get dholbach beofre
[03:41] <sivang> ivoks: ah cool, we got the error:
[03:42] <sivang> ivoks: libmp4-0 and libmp4v2-0 are conflicting on
/usr/lib/libmp4v2.so.0.0.0 =)
[03:42] <slomo> fine
[03:42] <ivoks> there...
[03:42] <slomo> where does /usr/lib/libmp4v2.so.0.0.0 come from?
[03:42] <ivoks> that's the problem
[03:43] <sivang> slomo: libmp4-0
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[03:43] <slomo> sivang: so you used marillat :P
[03:43] <Lathiat>    libmp4-0 is not in ubuntu souces
[03:43] <Lathiat> *sources
[03:43] <ivoks> sivang: no
[03:43] <Lathiat> i told you it was marillat way up there ^^ ;p
[03:43] <ivoks> Lathiat: ++
[03:43] <Lathiat> or some other source
[03:43] <ivoks> sivang: you have problems with non-ubuntu packages
[03:43] <Lathiat> hoary-backports or something
[03:43] <ivoks> sivang: pleace, consoult your local resaller :)
[03:43] <sivang> dudes, I have nothing but ubuntu repos on my list
[03:43] <ivoks> please even :)
[03:43] <slomo> sivang: i wonder why it isn't removed before libmp4v2 is
[03:44] <sivang> slomo: yes
[03:44] <Lathiat> sivang: its probably left over then
[03:44] <Lathiat> sivang: perhaps you previously used marillat
[03:44] <Lathiat> or whaever
[03:44] <sivang> hmm
[03:44] <ivoks> sivang: why would it remove it?
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[03:44] <Lathiat> we should see if we can clear that bug up, since people
will no doubt use marillat
[03:44] <ivoks> sivang: how can we know what packages someone did
[03:44] <slomo> sivang: please keep everything in that state like it's
now ;)
[03:44] <Lathiat> be nice if we didnt have to deal with it
[03:44] <slomo> sivang: i'll take a look at faad2 to fix this
[03:44] <sivang> slomo: /me apt-cache show faad2
[03:45] <sivang> hmm, that's no package
[03:45] <tseng> showsrc
[03:45] <dholbach> showsrc?
[03:45] <sivang> err, thanks guys
[03:45] <tseng> dholbach: hugs
[03:45] <dholbach> hey brandon :)))
[03:45] <tseng> hi
[03:45] <sivang> hey tseng
[03:45] <tseng> hi :)
[03:45] <slomo> Lathiat: it was fixed the wrong way because you told me
the wrong package name ;) we currently conflict on libmp4 not libmp4-0
[03:45] <slomo> Lathiat: :P
[03:45] <ivoks> anyone has exp with ldap auth?
[03:46] <tseng> yes
[03:46] <Lathiat> slomo: i didnt tell you the package name?
[03:46] <tseng> with apache2
[03:46] <tseng> mod_auth_ldap
[03:46] <slomo> Lathiat: who was it then who reported me that problem
weeks ago? hmm
[03:46] <ivoks> tseng: no pam?
[03:46] <tseng> for pam i use krb5
[03:46] <tseng> to the PDC
[03:46] <Lathiat> slomo: not me ;p
[03:46] <ivoks> tseng: well, i have ldap with users :/
[03:46] <sivang> slomo: again, what do you want me to do
[03:46] <sivang> ?
[03:47] <slomo> sivang: waiting until i uploaded a fixed version... and
then do apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:47] <tseng> ivoks: http://usefulinc.com/edd/blog
[03:47] <tseng> ivoks: read a few of his recent posts
=== Kyral stumbles in looking like he just got outta bed
[03:47] <Kyral> Mornin....
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: thanks, but...
[03:48] <sivang> Kyral: I understood that you finished testing your
program, right? (annd even uploaded it to revu)
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: i know how to setup ldap auth
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: i did that allready
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: i have only problems with ubuntu as a client
[03:48] <Kyral> sivang soon
[03:48] <slomo> sivang: so now try to install the other failed package
directly with dpkg
[03:48] <sivang> slomo: k
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: it doesn't work if i don't have user in files too
[03:48] <tseng> ivoks: edd is using ubuntu
[03:48] <ivoks> tseng: ok, i'll check it out
[03:48] <Kyral> Claydoh reported no problems with his test run, and I'm
gonna slam it into VMs today
[03:49] <tseng>    account sufficient      pam_ldap.so
[03:49] <tseng>    account required        pam_unix.so
[03:49] <tseng> i think this is the key
[03:49] <tseng> sufficient vs required
[03:49] <ivoks> tseng: i have that
[03:49] <Kyral>
https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+sources/vlc/+bug/2741 <--- Guy
fixed his own problem, marking as closed and Rejected
[03:50] <ivoks> tseng: funny thing is that i don't get Login incorect
[03:50] <ivoks> tseng: it just doesn't login :)
[03:50] <slomo> sivang: and...?
[03:50] <ivoks> brings back getty :/
[03:50] <sivang> slomo: I don't have the .deb in cache,
[03:50] <ivoks> tseng: but i'll check out edd's blog
[03:50] <sivang> slomo: so I can only attempt apt-get install
[03:50] <slomo> sivang: ?! that can't be ;)
[03:51] <sivang> slomo: sivan@ubuntu:~$ ls -la
[03:51] <sivang> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 213794 Sep 7 16:45
[03:52] <slomo> sivang: the other one was something with python...
[03:52] <sivang> so I only have the new one, btw Lathiat I think I did
have marilliat some time back, I can see it's P.tgz there
[03:52] <sivang> slomo: the one before the failing pcakge in the original
d-upgrade ?
[03:52] <slomo> sivang: yes
[03:53] <sivang> slomo: sec
[03:53] <zakame> hi all
[03:53] <sivang> hey zakame
[03:53] <sivang> slomo: yep it was ipython which I really like :)
[03:54] <slomo> sivang: so install it via dpkg and look what fails
[03:54] <sivang> slomo: k
[03:54] <sivang> also, there's the usual g-v-m crashing :)
[03:54] <ivoks> ?
[03:55] <sivang> sivan@ubuntu:~$ sudo dpkg -i
[03:55] <sivang> (Reading database ... 126234 files and directories
currently installed.)
[03:55] <sivang> Preparing to replace ipython 0.6.15-1ubuntu2 (using
.../ipython_0.6.15-1ubuntu2_all.deb) ...
[03:55] <sivang> Unpacking replacement ipython ...
[03:55] <sivang> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of
[03:55] <sivang> ipython depends on python2.4-ipython; however:
[03:55] <sivang>   Package python2.4-ipython is not installed.
[03:55] <sivang> ipython depends on ipython-common; however:
[03:55] <sivang>   Package ipython-common is not configured yet.
[03:55] <sivang> dpkg: error processing ipython (--install):
[03:55] <sivang> oops, I need to try -common first
[03:55] <slomo> sivang: stop :P
[03:55] <sivang> dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[03:55] <sivang> Errors were encountered while processing:
[03:55] <ivoks> ah...
[03:55] <sivang> err, sorry for the big pastes
[03:55] <ivoks> kick him
[03:55] <ivoks> :)
[03:55] <slomo> sivang: install ipython, python2.4-ipython and ipython-
common at once
[03:56] <dholbach> sudo apt-get install -f   ....    just do it :)
[03:56] <sivang> slomo: dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration
of ipython-common:
[03:56] <sivang> ipython-common depends on python2.4-ipython |
python2.3-ipython; however:
[03:56] <sivang>   Package python2.4-ipython is not installed.
[03:56] <sivang>   Package python2.3-ipython is not installed.
[03:56] <ivoks> again?!
[03:56] <slomo> dholbach: no! not yet ;)
[03:56] <sivang> oh man, I'm sucha dumbass , sorry ivoks
[03:56] <dholbach> sivang: why don't you just give us root on your box
and we all have a look at it :)
[03:56] <dholbach> :)
=== dholbach shuts up
[03:56] <slomo> sivang: dpkg -i ipython python2.4-ipython ipython-common
[03:56] <sivang> nahh, I refuse to become a newb again :)
[03:56] <slomo> sivang: replace the package names with the actual files
[03:57] <sivang> slomo: yes, I normally know that, but here with the
stress of our products release I seem to forget too much :)
[03:57] <slomo> sivang: don't worry :)
=== sivang is speaking with a bunch of folks n the other line
[03:58] <ivoks> hm...
[04:01] <sivang> slomo: not working, I gave it python-ipython2.4 but it's
[04:01] <sivang> *unconfigured
[04:01] <slomo> sivang: give it all three
[04:01] <ivoks> dpkg --configure 0a
[04:01] <ivoks> dpkg --configure -a
[04:01] <ivoks> blah..
[04:01] <sivang> slomo: I did
[04:01] <ivoks> sivang: dpkg --configure -a
[04:02] <sivang> ivoks: what does that do ?
[04:02] <slomo> sivang: then listen to ivoks ;)
[04:02] <ivoks> that will think instead of you
[04:02] <sivang> ivoks: ah, it configures all installed pakcages?
[04:02] <ivoks> no
[04:02] <sivang> bah, here are those locale erros again
[04:02] <ivoks> only unconfigured
[04:02] <sivang> ivoks: ah cool
[04:02] <sivang> ivoks: you've been readin the dpkg manual, haven't you ?
[04:03] <ivoks> ?
[04:03] <ivoks> no, this is 8 years of debian practice
[04:03] <tseng> yay for fighting with sid
[04:03] <sivang> ivoks: ah =)
[04:04] <sivang> ivoks: then you're a master dude
[04:04] <ivoks> sivang: not quite...
[04:04] <ivoks> tseng: LAT tool rocks :)
[04:04] <sivang> ivoks: but 8 years, is a long time. I wish I had 8 years
of using debian
[04:04] <ivoks> tseng: it only needs SSL/TLS support :)
[04:04] <tseng> hm what?
[04:04] <sivang> slomo: ok, I will retry after configuration is done
[04:04] <ivoks> tseng: lat is mono app for LDAP :)
[04:05] <ivoks> tseng: http://people.mmgsecurity.com/~lorenb/lat/
[04:05] <tseng> oh
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[04:05] <sivang> slomo: btw, if you want someone to care for ipython ,
I'd be interested
[04:05] <\sh> ipython installs fine here
[04:06] <slomo> is someone with an ipod here?
[04:09] <sivang> not me
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[04:14] <dholbach> brb
[04:15] <sivang> slomo: ok, python-ipython got configured now, waitinf
for dpkg to finish
[04:16] <slomo> sivang: fine... now please wait until a new libmp4v2 has
arrived in the archives ;)
[04:17] <sivang> slomo: sure, anything for the follow MOTUs :-)
[04:17] <sivang> sorry for flooding before
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[04:25] <bddebian> Heya gang
[04:25] <slomo> hi bddebian :)
[04:25] <bddebian> Heya slomo
[04:26] <xophEr> how do I reset the settings of my gnome-panel?
[04:27] <zakame> hi bddebian
[04:28] <sivang> bddebian: Barry!
[04:28] <sivang> slomo: ok, configuration ended with Errors were
encountered while processing:
[04:28] <sivang> libfaac0
[04:29] <sivang> slomo: still waiting for your fix upload, let me knwow
hen to dist-upgrade
[04:29] <slomo> sivang: nice... what is wrong with faac?
[04:29] <slomo> sivang: it's already uploaded... should be in the
archives in 30 minutes
[04:29] <sivang> slomo: no idea, should I try reconfiguring it
[04:29] <bddebian> Hello zakame, sivang
[04:29] <slomo> sivang: scroll back to the line where it was configured
[04:30] <sivang> slomo: bah, accidently closed the window
[04:30] <slomo> sivang: then redo it ;)
[04:31] <sivang> dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of
[04:31] <sivang> libfaac0 depends on libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean);
[04:31] <sivang>   Package libmp4v2-0 is not installed.
[04:31] <slomo> sivang: ok, ignore until the fix is there ;)
[04:31] <bmonty> morning all
[04:31] <sivang> morning bmonty
[04:33] <bddebian> Heya bmonty
[04:33] <bmonty> still working on the FTBFS list?
[04:33] <zakame> hi bmonty
[04:37] <bmonty> anyone know if the technical board meeting has been
officially rescheduled?
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[04:38] <sivang> bmonty: I was trying to find out as well
[04:39] <sivang> I saw an email from mdz that it was rescheduled to some
thrusday, not sure if it was last week or for this week
[04:40] <bmonty> sivang: I saw that as well, but no reply
[04:41] <sivang> slomo: let me know when the pakcage is ready for
[04:41] <zakame> hmm, when building universe packages can I create a
launchpad page for it?
[04:41] <slomo> sivang: x86 and amd64 is in the main archives... please
[04:45] <sivang> slomo: oh, did the fix involved main packages ?
[04:45] <slomo> sivang: no
[04:45] <sivang> slomo: ah k, I reach a misunderstanding record today =)
[04:45] <sivang> slomo: it wants to me -f
[04:45] <sivang> slomo: before it would go with the dist-upgrade
[04:47] <slomo> what will apt-get -f install do?
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[04:47] <sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[04:47] <sivang>   libfaac0: Depends: libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean) but it
is not installed
[04:47] <sivang> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
[04:48] <slomo> what will it do when you apt-get -f install
[04:49] <sivang> slomo: I will do it now and tell you :)
[04:49] <sivang> The following extra packages will be installed:
[04:49] <sivang>   libmp4v2-0
[04:49] <sivang> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[04:49] <sivang>   libmp4v2-0
[04:49] <sivang> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not
[04:49] <slomo> ok
[04:49] <slomo> do it
[04:50] <sivang> slomo: still it doesn't show it removed the previous
one, is that ok?
[04:50] <slomo> try it
[04:50] <sivang> bah,
[04:50] <sivang> got the overwrite error again
[04:50] <slomo> what version of libmp4v2-0 will be installed?
[04:51] <slomo> ubuntu1 or ubuntu2?
[04:51] <sivang> ubuntu1
[04:51] <slomo> that's the old version
[04:51] <sivang> I need to refresh the cach then
[04:51] <sivang> how do I do that?
[04:51] <slomo> dpkg --remove libmp4v2-0 && apt-get update && apt-get
[04:51] <slomo> and use archive.ubuntu.com in your sources.list
[04:51] <slomo> no local mirror, they don't have it yet
[04:52] <sivang> ah
[04:52] <sivang> damm
[04:52] <sivang> ok
[04:52] <sivang> since i got this again:
[04:52] <sivang> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[04:52] <sivang>   libfaac0: Depends: libmp4v2-0 (>= 2.0.0clean) but it
is not installed
[04:53] <slomo> ok removed it?
[04:53] <sivang> seems so, i now update from a.u.c
[04:53] <sivang> yay!!!
[04:53] <sivang> finally
[04:54] <sivang> Preconfiguring packages ...
[04:54] <sivang> (Reading database ... 126284 files and directories
currently installed.)
[04:54] <sivang> Removing libmp4-0 ...
[04:54] <sivang> (Reading database ... 126274 files and directories
currently installed.)
[04:54] <sivang> Unpacking libmp4v2-0 (from .../libmp4v2-
0_2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-0ubuntu2_i386.deb) ...
[04:54] <sivang> Setting up libmp4v2-0 (2.0.0+cvs20040908+mp4v2+bmp-
0ubuntu2) ...
[04:54] <sivang> Setting up libfaac0 (1.24clean-0ubuntu3) ...
[04:54] <sivang> and done :)
[04:54] <bmonty> hmm...looks like I broke zapping :(
[04:54] <sivang> slomo: thank you
[04:55] <sivang> slomo: do you recall how I enable usplash ?
[04:55] <slomo> sivang: np :)
[04:55] <slomo> sivang: no idea
[04:56] <sivang> ok, time for the first reboot after the dist-upgrade
[04:57] <sivang> laterz dudes
[04:57] <bmonty> bye sivang
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[05:01] <sivang> yay, I'm now on breezy from work
[05:03] <sivang> Has anyone bumped into the gnome session files
permission error when first logging through gdm after the upgrade?
[05:03] <sivang> I happend to me now and on other 2 machines already
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[05:06] <dholbach> re
[05:07] <bddebian> Heya Daniel
[05:08] <dholbach> re barry :)
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[05:12] <sivang> bddebian: ok, I now have a breezy box at work, will go
recreate the pbuilder here again <g>
[05:18] <bddebian> sivang: Cool
[05:20] <slomo> sivang: and everything works fine? ;)
[05:20] <sivang> slomo: seems so, besides a couple of evo crashes :)
[05:21] <slomo> sivang: crash or freeze? ;)
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[05:21] <sivang> slomo: crashes :)
[05:21] <slomo> oh, that's probably something new
[05:21] <sivang> also , the evolution link from the panel is broken
[05:22] <sivang> I wonder if I can try make seb a patch (I'm already
familiar with the panel package(
[05:22] <sivang> ah very nice, I also have GUI probelms, evo looses it's
borders :)
[05:22] <slomo> better make a patch for the crashes and freezes ;)
[05:23] <spayne> slomo: how can i get GNOME mount my ipod
[05:23] <slomo> spayne: i don't have an ipod so ask someone else ;) i
don't know anything about ipods
[05:23] <spayne> anyone here have an ipod?
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[05:36] <sivang> yay, pbuilder runs faster here. 6MB downstream
[05:37] <jhonny> hi guys, will sun's java sdk be on breezy repositories?
[05:38] <tseng> no, its not distributable
[05:38] <jhonny> ok
[05:38] <markuman> \sh: my adress is now whitelisted
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#ubuntu-motu ["Fui]
[05:40] <sivang> bddebian: when I add repos to my pbuilder, do I need to
do pbuilder update --distribution hoary --override-config ?
[05:40] <sivang> bddebian: I mean, why is it needed to --override-config
[05:40] <bddebian> sivang: That saves any setting changes afaik
[05:41] <bddebian> sivang: And you should upgrade your pbuilder to breezy
=== xophEr [n=xopher@a84-231-146-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined
[05:43] <sivang> bddebian: it's alrady breezy, I just copied from the
wiki since I didn't understand why this is teh recommendation
[05:44] <sivang> ok, pbuilder finished
[05:44] <bmonty> sivang: the wiki tells how to make a pbuilder in hoary,
and then upgrade to breezy
[05:44] <hub> spacey_ki: it should just work
[05:44] <hub> oo
[05:44] <sivang> bmonty: thanks, overlooking again.
[05:44] <hub> spayne: it should just work
[05:44] <bmonty> if you have breezy installed you can just change
everything to breezy
[05:44] <bmonty> and not do the upgrade at all
=== hub hate xchat completion
[05:45] <sivang> bddebian: see, I'm much more stupid then you thought you
was =)
[05:45] <bddebian> sivang: Bah
[05:45] <sivang> bddebian: right, I should have said "were" instead of
was ;-)
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[06:03] <bmonty> bddebian: can you check out #2987 for me please?
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[06:05] <bddebian> bmonty: Will do but I am trying to build lyx again so
it might be a bit :-(
[06:05] <bmonty> bddebian: I need to figure out how to get the pbuilder
to use ccache
[06:06] <bmonty> it significantly speeds up package rebuilds, especially
when you aren't messing with the source code
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[06:07] <bddebian> aye
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[06:33] <dholbach> do we need this from apt-get.org: Description:
gay.com-related plugins for gaim? :)
[06:34] <Treenaks> dholbach: of course
[06:34] <Lathiat> dholbach: yes! now!
[06:34] <dholbach> ok
[06:34] <dholbach> :)
[06:34] <Lathiat> wtf is it?
[06:35] <dholbach> no idea
=== terrex [n=terrex@84-122-90-162.onocable.ono.com] has joined #ubuntu-
[06:36] <dholbach> this is the first time, i'd love to have a webcam
[06:36] <dholbach> this place is awesome
[06:36] <dholbach> so many pretty girls around me
=== dholbach is at a cafe
[06:36] <bddebian> Pictures?
[06:36] <dholbach> i guess it's too dark for my mobile camera
[06:36] <dholbach> :)
[06:37] <dholbach> but i sat near a turkish kubuntu guy some minutes ago
[06:37] <dholbach> and a guy with a mac showcasing music apps
[06:37] <dholbach> that was COOL
[06:38] <dholbach> for dapper i'll package each and every music app i can
[06:39] <bddebian> bmonty: lyx can't find forms.h ?
=== vrln votes for bmpx
[06:39] <bmonty> bddebian: never saw that error
[06:39] <bddebian> bmonty: zapping in uploading
[06:39] <bddebian> s/in/is/
[06:40] <bmonty> thanks
[06:43] <\sh> *yawn
[06:43] <\sh> *
[06:44] <\sh> morning
[06:44] <\sh> or better evening all
[06:45] <bmonty> hi \sh
[06:45] <\sh> bmonty: hey...
[06:45] <\sh> bmonty: I pinged you this afternoon..the things on the
universeFTBFS do u need a sponsor?
[06:45] <TMM> ajmitch, are you here? if you are, could you, if you have
the time, look at my latest upload?
http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=746 I think I got everything now
:) including AMD64 build support (whoops) :)
[06:46] <bmonty> \sh: no, bddebian has been kindly uploading those
packages for me, thanks though
[06:46] <\sh> bmonty: ok :) was not sure :)
[06:46] <dholbach> TMM: unlikely, he lives in NZ, so i guess he's fast
[06:47] <bmonty> I think the xemacs21 package just needs a rebuild though
I can't figure out the right installation order to test the install :(
[06:47] <TMM> dholbach, ow yeah, sometimes I forget that not everyone has
such an 'interesting' day/night rhythm like me :)
[06:47] <dholbach> haha
[06:47] <dholbach> where are you from?
[06:47] <TMM> netherlands
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[06:48] <dholbach> ah ok
[06:48] <dholbach> TMM: are you involved in the nl-team?
=== sivang comes back
[06:48] <TMM> I hang around in their IRC channel :)
[06:48] <dholbach> like seveas and treenaks are?
[06:48] <dholbach> oh cool that's a start
[06:49] <dholbach> where in .nl do you live?
[06:49] <TMM> 30km from amsterdam
[06:49] <TMM> give or take
[06:49] <dholbach> cool
[06:49] <Treenaks> TMM: hey, me too :)
[06:49] <Treenaks> TMM: you're not in Alphen too, are you? :)
[06:49] <TMM> Treenaks, no :) uitgeest
[06:49] <dholbach> my sister wanted to move to .nl (before she hit
vienna), so i'd have known some cities (from the name)
[06:50] <Treenaks> dholbach: get her over here ;)
[06:50] <TMM> Treenaks, nick alert, ey? :)
[06:50] <tseng> uh oh
[06:50] <TMM> Treenaks, are you THAT desperate? :P
[06:50] <dholbach> she learnt dutch
[06:50] <Treenaks> TMM: ja :)
[06:50] <\sh> bah...
[06:50] <tseng> she is too nice for you lo
[06:50] <tseng> t
[06:50] <\sh> she should lern python...
[06:50] <TMM> Treenaks, you are? :P geez, I'd never admit that in a
public IRC channel ;)
[06:50] <dholbach> \sh: you dont seem to know her
[06:50] <Treenaks> TMM: a logged one, even
[06:50] <Treenaks> dholbach: oh, she already knows python? :)
[06:50] <TMM> Treenaks, o dear...
[06:51] <\sh> dholbach: no..but from the pictures...well..I would like to
[06:51] <dholbach> TMM: i like Treenaks for being honest :)
[06:51] <TMM> ghehhee
[06:51] <Treenaks> (log readers: note I did not say a thing..)
[06:51] <dholbach> \sh: judging from the pictures you should know that
she won't start on python,, she uses ubuntu though
[06:51] <TMM> (log readers: note that 'ja' means 'yes')
[06:51] <dholbach> haha
[06:51] <dholbach> you guys are SO funny
[06:51] <dholbach> it's good to be here :)
[06:52] <\sh> dholbach: well...I just learned that most GFs of ubuntu
devs are doing translating jobs ;) so this is ok ;)
[06:52] <Treenaks> TMM: that was re: nick alert
[06:52] <TMM> [18:50] TMM Treenaks, are you THAT desperate? :P [18:50]
Treenaks TMM: ja :) <--- note the 'ja'
[06:52] <dholbach> \sh: SHE'S MY SISTER!!!
[06:52] <dholbach> \sh: NOT MY GIRLFRIEND
[06:52] <dholbach> ARG :)
[06:52] <TMM> Treenaks, yeah, that would be plausable, and mighty damn
convenient... doesn't it?
[06:52] <\sh> dholbach: so...
[06:52] <sivang> dholbach: :)
[06:52] <\sh> dholbach: I said I will visit vienna ;)
[06:52] <sivang> dholbach: is she coming to UBZ ;-)
[06:52] <sivang> ?
[06:52] <dholbach> sivang: no
[06:53] <Treenaks> go sivang ;)
[06:53] <\sh> dholbach: *rotfl*
[06:53] <tseng> :/
[06:53] <TMM> dholbach, if you have to explain THAT loudly, something is
wrong... really dude... get help
[06:53] <dholbach> no guys... she has a life
[06:53] <dholbach> i'm sorry for you all :)
[06:53] <\sh> dholbach: 1. rule: never post pictures of nice sisters of
you on blogs ;)
[06:53] <tseng> you guys are awful
[06:53] <dholbach> TMM: you should get help concerning your LOUDLY
WRITTEN nickname :)
[06:53] <sivang> LOL
[06:53] <TMM> dholbach, it's an abbreviation
[06:53] <sivang> dholbach: you know I was kidding right?
[06:53] <dholbach> TMM: i thought so...
[06:54] <dholbach> sivang: yes :)
[06:54] <Treenaks> sivang: you weren't.. admit it ;)
[06:54] <\sh> dholbach: 2. rule: if you do so, think that in your
universe there are desperate people
[06:54] <sivang> Treenaks: well, if to judge by Daniel's looks, I bet
she's good looking as well :)
[06:54] <TMM> dholbach, of the nick I had since I was about 10 :) its a
bit embarresing to use it fully, but I like it because I've had it so
long :)
=== sivang runs
[06:54] <Treenaks> sivang: well, we might be able to see if he put up
_larger_ pics on his blog
[06:55] <sivang> oh, I'll go read his blog now
[06:55] <dholbach> sivang: merci :)
[06:55] <\sh> lol....so funny
[06:55] <Treenaks> sivang: it's on planet ;)
[06:55] <TMM> what *is* dholbach's blog's url then? :)
[06:55] <\sh> just listening to "Survivor - Burning Heart"
[06:55] <Treenaks> TMM: planet.ubuntu.com :)
[06:55] <dholbach> TMM: if i hit amsterdam, you will tell me story, i
hope :)
[06:55] <TMM> dholbach, are you going to amsterdam?
[06:55] <Treenaks> dholbach: don't forget to bring your sister ;)
=== sivang hugs dholbach , and hopes he knows we all love him
[06:56] <dholbach> TMM: i always wanted to visit it again... i have no
date yet
[06:56] <Lathiat> hrm synce is b0rked and theres some new stuff in debian
[06:56] <Lathiat> might look at syncing that tomorrow
[06:56] <dholbach> TMM: i was 11 or 12 when i saw it last and was amazed
by all the red-light district, but that's all i remember :)
[06:57] <\sh> fixing hwinfo
[06:57] <TMM> dholbach, let me know, I'll come and show you around
[06:57] <TMM> dholbach, I'm sure Treenaks will join me :)
[06:57] <sivang> dholbach: let's go there together
[06:57] <dholbach> TMM: so i guess i should go there again and see how
amsterdam really is
[06:57] <Treenaks> TMM: well, maybe :)
[06:57] <Treenaks> TMM: I'm scared now
[06:57] <dholbach> tmm,treenaks: cool
[06:57] <TMM> anyway, got to run
[06:57] <TMM> bbl
[06:57] <sivang> Treenaks: hmm, the images are unresizeable :-(
[06:57] <TMM> and someone, advocate my app :P
=== xophEr [n=xopher@a84-231-146-15.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined
[06:58] <TMM> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=746
[06:58] <Treenaks> sivang: yeah, that's why he should post larger ones
=== TMM runs leaving a huge plug behind
[06:58] <TMM> and no, not an anal plug you dirty bastards
[06:58] <TMM> :P
[06:58] <\sh> not?
[06:58] <tseng> uh
[07:00] <dholbach> it'S getting cold now
[07:00] <dholbach> see you later... going home
[07:00] <bmonty> \sh: did you already fix xemacs21?
=== Lathiat -> sleep
[07:01] <dholbach> see you
[07:01] <sivang> dholbach: laterz
[07:01] <bmonty> bye dholbach
[07:01] <\sh> bmonty: yepp
[07:01] <bmonty> \sh: ok, wikis are such imperfect tools for these kinds
of projects
[07:01] <slomo> re
[07:02] <\sh> bmonty: all on universeftbfs which has a "OK" is fixed or
synced or sync requested by elmo (regarding my stuff)
[07:02] <bmonty> \sh: I saw that...I just have to read the page more
closely :)
[07:03] <\sh> bmonty: yeah..I was bored this morning.. so I fixed some
stuff and drink some beer
[07:03] <slomo> bmonty: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=684
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@lns01-2056.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[07:05] <bmonty> slomo: hmm...I merged in the new upstream version and I
got the package version wrong. ajmitch already uploaded it though.
[07:05] <bmonty> I thought he said he had nuked it from REVU
[07:06] <Seveas> <bmonty> \sh: did you already fix xemacs21? <-- the only
way to fix that is dpkg -P emacs21; alias emacs=vim
[07:06] <slomo> bmonty: ok... archived
[07:06] <sivang> I'm out people, see you at home
[07:06] <bmonty> by sivang
[07:06] <bmonty> bye
[07:07] <sivang> bye bmonty , please ping me when you know anythign about
the TB meeting
[07:07] <bmonty> Seveas: it was on the FTBFS list
[07:07] <bmonty> sivang: I'll let you know if I hear anything
[07:07] <sivang> thanks :)
=== bmonty isn't holding his breath though
[07:07] <sivang> sure
[07:08] <\sh> grmpf
[07:08] <\sh> anyone familiar with hwinfo?
[07:09] <azeem> the SuSE guys
[07:10] <\sh> that looks like them
[07:10] <\sh> generating .h files the wrong way during build time
[07:10] <bmonty> well guess I should go take care of the list of projects
my wife gave me this morning....
[07:11] <bmonty> later guys...
[07:13] <sivang> hmm, actrually one more thing before I go
[07:13] <Lathiat> anyway
[07:13] <Lathiat> wrong window
[07:18] <sivang> \sh: maybe we can continue here , since I Want to ask
about gcc version in Ubuntu
[07:18] <sivang> in /usr/bin I have only gcc 3.3 and 4, is that normal
for a breezy dist-upgrade ?
[07:18] <azeem> 4.0 or 3.4?
[07:19] <sivang> e.g., two "real" binaries: gcc-3.3, and gcc-4.0
[07:19] <\sh> no 3.3 and 4
[07:19] <slomo> sivang: 3.3 was hoary and it will not be removed... 4.0
is the new standard one
[07:19] <sivang> slomo: ah ok
[07:19] <\sh> 3% [>                                                   ]
24,320         1.39K/s    ETA 33:41
[07:19] <\sh> wow
[07:20] <tseng> push the turbo button
[07:20] <\sh> well I need to get new sources for hwinfo
[07:20] <\sh> and then this
[07:20] <\sh> this is suse annoying
[07:20] <sivang> slomo: ok, so how can I get 3.4 ?
[07:20] <slomo> sivang: apt-get install gcc-3.4
[07:20] <sivang> \sh: why do you need new sources for hwinfo form suse?
[07:20] <sivang> slomo: k, thanks
=== OculusAquilae [n=bastian@p548D2C99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined
[07:22] <\sh> sivang: because the old one is not building because of
crappy sourcecode generation during compile time
[07:22] <\sh> this annoys me really...and now mirror server for the
source rpms
=== the [n=rhouse@adsl-69-153-8-223.dsl.snantx.swbell.net] has joined
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[07:26] <sivang> \sh: the old one from debian/ubuntu ? or is this not for
ubuntu ?
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#ubuntu-motu ["Konversation]
[07:28] <\sh> sivang: the old one
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[07:41] <janimo> ping markuman
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[07:43] <\sh> re dholbach
[07:43] <dholbach> re
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[07:47] <\sh> this really annoys me...
[07:48] <dholbach> what's going wrong?
=== eruin [n=eruin@unaffiliated/eruin] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[07:49] <\sh> read planet
[07:49] <\sh> trying to fetch the source rpm of hwinfo from opensuse
[07:59] <markuman> janimo: pong
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[08:01] <slomo> does someone know who "Andreas Mussgiller
<muszilla@users.sourceforge.net>" is?
[08:04] <janimo> markuman, did ivoks upload your package touniverse?
=== seth_k|lappy [n=seth@asmallorange.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[08:04] <janimo> so I know I don't have to
[08:04] <markuman> janimo: hm i dont know :-/
[08:04] <janimo> you said something about him and the NEW queue :)
[08:04] <janimo> I see he reviewed it
[08:05] <markuman> yes, and than he upload it again to review
[08:05] <janimo> well no hurry, I'll ask him tomorrow, it's no hurry,
[08:05] <markuman> i think
[08:05] <janimo> only to REVU?
[08:05] <markuman> ok
[08:05] <markuman> im not sure, but i think so
[08:06] <janimo> ok
[08:07] <dholbach> brb
=== infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[08:12] <infinity> Whoever's been doing zapping uploads, you guys may
want to sync with 0.9.6 from Debian, which actually builds on amd64.
=== dholbach [i=foobar@i577B0EF4.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu
=== infinity curses having typed that right before dholbach wandered
[08:13] <infinity> dholbach:
[08:13] <infinity> Whoever's been doing zapping uploads, you guys may
want to sync with 0.9.6 from Debian, which actually builds on amd64.
[08:13] <infinity> Pass along the word. :)
=== infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has left #ubuntu-motu []
[08:13] <dholbach> GUYS: ^^^ <--- hear what almighty adam has too say
[08:14] <\sh> lol
[08:14] <\sh> comes in, goes out
[08:15] <\sh> and now...apt-get install rpm
[08:15] <\sh> and fiddle around with source rpms :(
[08:15] <dholbach> after reading the manpage of rpm for a minute, i used
midnight commander ;-p
[08:15] <tseng> installing rpm on debian is weird
[08:15] <tseng> it goes like "YOU ARE A TOOL PLEASE USE ALIEN"
[08:16] <\sh> well...I'm an old redhat fart...so rpm -ivh is my friend
[08:17] <\sh> and it installs magically in /usr/src/rpm/SOURCES ,-)
[08:17] <tseng> i hate that
[08:18] <\sh> tseng: yeah...me too...but this is why I'm using a chroot
[08:21] <\sh> biggest problem the source doesn't want to compile...so I
have to check the spec
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[08:30] <Kyral> Okay...NOW my package is ready to be tidied up and
submitted to review, 'cause I know that it works :D
[08:35] <Kyral> after I play HALO
[08:36] <slomo> hub: enblend is uploaded :) be happy ;)
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ppp-69-239-136-165.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has
joined #ubuntu-motu
[08:56] <LaserJock> hi all! azeem are you awake? ;-)
=== keyes [n=keyes@ip-253.net-82-216-31.bruay.rev.numericable.fr] has
joined #ubuntu-motu
[08:56] <keyes> hello
[08:57] <keyes> Meeting about the creation of a PLF repository for Ubuntu
(for litigious package like w32codecs and real) start now at #plf
[08:57] <dholbach> somebody from the common-lisp-team here?
[08:57] <dholbach> keyes: plf?
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[08:57] <keyes> http://plf.zarb.org
=== corey__ [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined
[08:58] <keyes> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=386651
=== Burgundavia [n=corey@S0106000000cc07fc.gv.shawcable.net] has joined
[08:58] <dholbach> hrm
[09:00] <slomo> hmmm
[09:01] <tseng> hmz
[09:01] <dholbach> i'm fascistic and ignorant to such a high degree, that
i'd rather not use that stuff :)
[09:01] <\sh> not again
[09:02] <keyes> it's a french based repository and it's legal in France
[09:02] <dholbach> keyes: if you "have to do this", make sure you talk to
the community council about this
[09:02] <dholbach> keyes: and ask how much distance the ubuntu project
has to have to "plf"
[09:02] <keyes> PLF exist already for Mandriva
[09:02] <dholbach> i'm not sure, if the word "inofficial" (or whatever)
is enough there
[09:03] <keyes> and is fully UN-supported by Mandriva
[09:03] <dholbach> keyes: you should have everybody's awareness on the
[09:03] <TMM> yo
[09:03] <TMM> back :)
[09:03] <slomo> keyes: how can something like w32codecs be legal in
france? i doubt it
[09:03] <dholbach> keyes: and the CC are the right guys
[09:04] <\sh> hmmm...I should rent a root server on an island somewhere
far away, without rights and laws and then I can distribute this stuff
[09:04] <dholbach> keyes: i surely don't want to drain your enthusiasm,
really, i appreciate it, but i'd rather talk to the people involved
before starting it
=== ivoks [n=ivoks@lns01-0882.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[09:05] <\sh> and it would be better, if the people are going away from
those w32codec stuff and using open standards stuff...
[09:05] <ivoks> hello
[09:05] <janimo> hey ivoks
=== ivoks is wondering...
[09:06] <ivoks> who's name was in zapping changelog? :)
[09:07] <tseng> bmonty:
[09:07] <janimo> ivoks, did you by any chance, upload xfce4-taskmanager?
[09:08] <janimo> thanks for REVuing it btw :)
[09:08] <ivoks> janimo: i did, but i didn't show up in -changes
[09:09] <ivoks> s/i/it
[09:09] <janimo> ok thanks, that means it is waiting for elmo
[09:09] <ivoks> janimo: i hope so
=== LaserJock [n=LaserJoc@ppp-69-239-136-165.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has
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[09:14] <ivoks> \sh: what's with hwinfo?
[09:17] <\sh> ivoks: version in ubuntu/debian has build errors, coming
from a wrong include file, which is created during compiletime
[09:18] <\sh> ivoks: and new version from suse doesn't work either, cause
we don't have a special kernel patch
[09:18] <\sh> ivoks: so something for dapper
[09:18] <ivoks> ah, ok
[09:18] <ivoks> \sh: i see you had problems with jabberd2
[09:18] <ivoks> \sh: it runs for me without problems for months
[09:19] <ivoks> \sh: true, without mysql...
[09:19] <\sh> ivoks: are u using transports with utf-8 stuff?
[09:19] <\sh> mysql was only a bloody stoopid mistake by me
[09:19] <ivoks> i don't use transports at all
[09:20] <\sh> ivoks: yeah...that's why it's running without problems
[09:20] <ivoks> :)
[09:20] <\sh> ivoks: but when u r using transports, c2s will fck around
because of some strange utf8 problems
[09:20] <\sh> ivoks: I solved this problem with using now ejabberd
[09:20] <ivoks> \sh: i saw
[09:20] <\sh> ivoks: not even one problem since I installed it
[09:21] <ivoks> well, i'll leave jabberd2 on this machine
[09:21] <ivoks> other setups will be ejabberd
=== Tonio- [n=tonio@tonio.planetemu.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[09:21] <\sh> ivoks: I'll bring a new version of ejabberd and jabberd2
for dapper
[09:21] <\sh> and trying to get ejabberd to main
[09:21] <ivoks> :)
[09:22] <\sh> so I have to learn erlang language :)
[09:22] <ajmitch> morning
[09:22] <\sh> hey ajmitch
[09:22] <ivoks> evening
[09:22] <dholbach> morning andrew
[09:22] <ajmitch> what fun have I missed?
[09:22] <ajmitch> \sh fixed universe?
[09:22] <ivoks> not much
[09:22] <\sh> ajmitch: sure just finished
[09:22] <\sh> hehe
[09:22] <ajmitch> yay
[09:22] <ajmitch> so we can all have a party! ;)
[09:23] <\sh> only 78937572137 packages left ;)
=== ivoks is considering starting "server" project
[09:23] <\sh> + hwinfo ;)
[09:23] <ivoks> \sh: 78937572136 :)
=== JakubS_ [n=qbast@ain131.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #ubuntu-
[09:26] <\sh> ivoks: well...;)
=== stone__ [n=stone@c-24-14-85-48.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined
[09:29] <ivoks> bye
[09:35] <ajmitch> \sh: what's with your latest blog entry? :)
[09:39] <\sh> ajmitch: bah...first I waited one hour for the new source
rpm of hwinfo from opensuse
[09:39] <\sh> ajmitch: and then it failed to build, because they're using
a strange kernel patch
=== spayne [n=spayne@i-195-137-120-148.freedom2surf.net] has joined
[09:40] <ajmitch> ouch :)
[09:40] <\sh> ajmitch: but this bandwidth is really annoying and I didn't
find any cvs repos or something for their source
[09:40] <ajmitch> it'd probably be even slower :)
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[10:01] <\sh> damn
[10:06] <\sh> I have to bring a new upstream into universe (fbdesk) :(
[10:07] <dholbach> if that makes it work
[10:07] <dholbach> builds? works?
[10:07] <\sh> yes
[10:07] <dholbach> no debian version we could rely on?
[10:08] <\sh> no...1.1.5 is the same as in debian
[10:08] <dholbach> ok
[10:08] <\sh> 1.2.1 works and builds
[10:08] <\sh> just uploaded
[10:08] <dholbach> rock
[10:09] <\sh> I hope it builds as well on amd64/ppc
[10:11] <\sh> now for grace
[10:12] <\sh> ok...last beer
[10:12] <siretart> hi folks
[10:12] <slomo> \sh: prost :)
[10:12] <siretart> for relaxing. somebody remembering zelda?
http://aaa.opus-hosting.com/perso_TomBoss/stuff4.wmv *g*
[10:13] <\sh> zelda? the gameboy game?
[10:13] <\sh> slomo: skal :)
[10:14] <siretart> \sh: on the piano! :)
=== dholbach [i=foobar@i577B0EF4.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[10:14] <\sh> siretart: I thought u meant zelda the game ;)
[10:15] <siretart> \sh: it is. soundtrack played on the piano!
[10:15] <\sh> ah
=== \sh had the game on the gameboy colour ;)
=== slomo played it on the snes ;)
[10:18] <dholbach> slomo: that's somebody who learned to play piano
properly... *envy*
[10:18] <\sh> a little bit to fast I think
=== siretart played it on nes, snes, gb and n64 (and half way on
gamecube) *g*
[10:20] <\sh> dholbach: you should listen to my son :)
=== dholbach 's piano teacher painted little pigs into the book (for my
bad technique)
[10:21] <dholbach> the stupid books were FULL of pigs
[10:21] <dholbach> i didnt like her...
[10:21] <\sh> hahaha
=== sivang opens again the webpage for UniverseFTBS
[10:22] <\sh> I learned organ instead of a piano...it was more fun using
hands and feet to play music :)
[10:22] <\sh> checking for X11/xpm.h... yes
[10:22] <\sh> checking for a Motif >= 1002 compatible API... no
[10:22] <\sh> BAH
[10:22] <\sh> and lestiff2-dev is build-dep
[10:22] <\sh> what the heck
[10:23] <\sh> lets tryit with libmotif
[10:24] <dholbach> slomo: in the middle it sounds a bit like richard
[10:24] <dholbach> :-p
[10:24] <sivang> dholbach: all of the packages in
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseFTBFSi386 are FTBS and need love?
[10:24] <\sh> siretart: check UniverseFTBFS first (there are packages
already done)
[10:24] <\sh> sorry sivang I mean
[10:24] <\sh> not siretart
[10:24] <slomo> dholbach: wait for me to download it :P my connection
isn't that fastest ;)
[10:24] <dholbach> sivang: you should inspect
people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test and
people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test before (if they built after
[10:25] <dholbach> slomo: oh... who proposed that file? wasnt that you?
[10:25] <slomo> dholbach: siretart =)
=== dholbach closed the window afterwards
[10:25] <dholbach> ah right
[10:25] <dholbach> siretart: ^^
[10:25] <dholbach> :)
[10:26] <siretart> :)
=== dholbach is sure siretart listened to the richard clayderman LPs of
his parents as a kid :)
[10:27] <\sh> siretart: you are playing this?
[10:27] <siretart> hehe
[10:27] <siretart> boah, of course not
[10:27] <dholbach> hehe :)
[10:28] <siretart> years ago, I played keyboard, but never piano. But I'm
deeply impressed
[10:28] <\sh> well...many software devs are playing piano, organ or
keyboard or something similar
[10:28] <siretart> funny
=== dholbach always wanted to play drums
[10:29] <siretart> coding is similar to playing music? never thought
about that..
[10:29] <\sh> and windows devs are playing flute
[10:29] <siretart> lol
[10:29] <slomo> siretart: hehe... /me played keyboard too some years ago
=== marcin_ant [n=user@www.e-dev.tele2.pl] has joined #ubuntu-motu
[10:29] <dholbach> we'll start a BAND!
[10:29] <\sh> siretart: it is somehow..it's all logic
[10:29] <dholbach> i! can! see! the! light! :)
[10:29] <sivang> dholbach: I play guitar
[10:29] <sivang> ;)
[10:29] <siretart> dholbach: Yeah, like the band with rocks in! (terry
pratchet, soul music)
[10:30] <\sh> THE BAND !
=== dholbach shamelessly quotes a movie :)
[10:30] <\sh> Blues Brothers
[10:30] <dholbach> :))
[10:30] <dholbach> and he play yann tiersen
[10:30] <dholbach> that's nice...
[10:30] <slomo> sivang: /me too... but these two are the only instruments
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[10:30] <dholbach> ok i play the drums, sivang the guitar
[10:30] <dholbach> we're nearly there
[10:31] <\sh> keyboard here or piano ;)
[10:31] <\sh> or hamond organ
[10:31] <slomo> siretart: terry pratchett? band? enlighten me ;)
[10:31] <\sh> yeah..a hamond
[10:31] <dholbach> and i think we have quite some singers (after the last
debconf...) ;)
[10:31] <\sh> oh no...I can't sing
[10:32] <\sh> I can "groehl"
[10:32] <sivang> well, I can also do some base :)
[10:32] <\sh> but not singing
[10:32] <siretart> slomo: in his book (and comic movie, btw) there is a
band called 'the band with rocks in', rocking all of the discworld!
[10:32] <slomo> \sh: after some beers you can ;)
[10:32] <\sh> slomo: that's what I meant with "groehlen"
=== ajmitch wants some dwarf bread
[10:32] <siretart> ajmitch: what do you want to hit with that weapon? ;)
[10:32] <ajmitch> sharks
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[10:32] <siretart> sharks?
[10:32] <ajmitch> sure
=== siretart giggles :)
[10:33] <slomo> siretart: comic movie by pratchet? hmm... i must read
this book and watch this film ;) i already read some books by him but
none with a band :P
=== dholbach removes the ALT-F4 combination from his keyboard
[10:33] <\sh> slomo: there are a lot of discworld books
[10:33] <\sh> slomo: ogra has a lot :
[10:33] <\sh> )
[10:33] <\sh> but sadly only in german :(
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[10:33] <ajmitch> aww
[10:33] <slomo> slomo: yes i know ;) i only have 4 atm :( i need more ;)
[10:33] <slomo> \sh: even...
[10:33] <slomo> lol
=== ajmitch only has a few of them
=== \sh has only rincewind :(
[10:34] <dholbach> slomo: ask mvo, he's the terry pratchett man
[10:34] <\sh> damnit what is it?
[10:34] <dholbach> slomo: mvo is only waiting for the "who wants to be a
millionaire"-terry-pratchett-edition :)
[10:35] <\sh> I give up for tonight
[10:35] <slomo> \sh: what's up?
[10:35] <slomo> dholbach: oh that would be a reason to watch tv again ;)
[10:36] <mvo> dholbach: haha
=== mvo loves terry pratchett
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[10:38] <\sh> slomo: grace
[10:38] <siretart> hi Fuddl ;)
[10:38] <slomo> \sh: the one with the motif configure breakage?
[10:38] <\sh> slomo: yes
[10:38] <\sh> slomo: I don't see the tree because there is a forrest
somehow in front of my eyes
[10:39] <slomo> \sh: oh no... motif should be forbidden ;)
[10:39] <slomo> \sh: shall i take a look at it? or will you do tomorrow?
[10:39] <Fuddl> hi there
[10:41] <\sh> slomo: u can do it if you want...it uses lestiff2 anyways
because of xmhtml1-dev
[10:41] <\sh> holla die waldfee
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[10:41] <slomo> hi sebest__ :)
[10:41] <\sh> I just made a technorati jump of 75000 ranks
[10:41] <bddebian> slomo: You can merge grace6 from Debian too if you fix
it ;-P
[10:41] <slomo> \sh: woah...
[10:42] <slomo> bddebian: ok... thanks =)
[10:42] <\sh> bddebian: the new version of grace?
[10:43] <\sh> bddebian: i tried as well the new one of debian of
grace..same problem different version ;)
[10:43] <slomo> \sh: http://packages.qa.debian.org/g/grace6.html
[10:43] <slomo> different sourcepackage
[10:43] <\sh> slomo: ah
[10:43] <\sh> slomo: but there is as well a new release of grace for
[10:43] <slomo> bddebian: grace6 is already the newest?
[10:43] <slomo> \sh: yes, i already saw it
[10:44] <bddebian> slomo: Oh, it used to be on the MoM list. Maybe
someone did it?
[10:44] <slomo> \sh:    -> Trying libxpm4-dev
[10:44] <slomo>        -> Cannot install libxpm4-dev; apt errors follow:
[10:46] <slomo> bddebian: yes, someone did already ;)
[10:46] <slomo> this someone was you :P
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[10:48] <\sh> slomo: libxpm-dev <- 1st change ;)
[10:48] <bddebian> Oh, hehe, maybe it was something else I was thinking
[10:48] <slomo> \sh: ok, thanks... the new debian version has an
important change ;)
[10:48] <slomo> \sh: it conflicts with the grace6 package
[10:49] <\sh> slomo: you see...I don't have any clue what grace is,
honestly...and my concern is that it builds, installs and works ;)
[10:50] <\sh> slomo: if it's grace or grace jones...I don't mind ;)
[10:50] <\sh> actually...grace jones and a slave to her rhythm ..
[10:50] <sivang> lololol
[10:51] <slomo> \sh: i don't know either what this is ;)
[10:51] <\sh> slomo: what? you don't know grace jones?
[10:52] <slomo> \sh: that package :P
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[10:52] <\sh> slomo: oh ;) but grace jones ->
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[11:02] <siretart> slomo: did you notice that there are some old mplayer-
amd64 packages lying around in the archive and confusing users?
[11:02] <slomo> siretart: yes
[11:02] <slomo> i told elmo 1000000 times to remove this crap
[11:03] <slomo> along with some other stuff
[11:03] <slomo> and nothing happens
[11:03] <siretart> Fuddl: did you listen?
[11:03] <sebest__> hi slomo :)
[11:03] <Fuddl> siretart: eh... sorry, didn't. *reading backlog*
[11:03] <bddebian> slomo: Aye, he's not good with morgues ;-)
[11:05] <Fuddl> ah, so it's not only my opinion, that mplayer-amd64 is
out of date and confusing amd64-users
[11:05] <\sh> bddebian: we need to get a list of stuff to be morgued
before release...
[11:05] <siretart> no, rather known issue waiting for elmo (ftpmaster)
[11:07] <sivang> anybod know if 3ddesktop is fixed?
[11:07] <sivang> I see it's failed on lamont's buidl logs
[11:07] <sivang> ah, i386 succeded.
[11:07] <sivang> next
[11:09] <dholbach> Riddell: did you do any progress on the kde rpath
amd64 trail?
[11:09] <sivang> hmm, many of the ftbs are non i386 :-(
[11:10] <sivang> oh I found some :)
[11:10] <sivang> dholbach: am using
http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/Test/byDate/today.html , is it
[11:12] <dholbach> i'd rather check both Test/ and the normal one (there
you can browse when they biult the last time and which version)
[11:15] <sivang> dholbach: that's pretty tedious trying to find the ones
that failed,
[11:15] <sivang> dholbach: don't you have some kind of a script to pick
only the red ones? :)
[11:15] <dholbach> do some better lists :)
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[11:15] <sivang> hmm, how were the list ion the FTBS wiki pages created?
[11:16] <dholbach> that's a loooooooooong story
[11:16] <dholbach> part of it is on UniverseFTBFS
[11:17] <sivang> well, I think I'm lost
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[11:19] <str8edge> h!
[11:19] <str8edge> hi!
[11:19] <lifeless> I have a question from a friend, do we expect oprofile
to work out of the box ? I know its universe, but :)
[11:20] <sivang> I never tried running it, but I saw it required a kernel
[11:20] <lifeless> right.
[11:20] <sivang> which suggests some issues , AFAICT
[11:20] <lifeless> the module installs AIUI. Let me drag my friend over
[11:20] <str8edge> does anyone know which package enables the debian menu
in ubuntu?
[11:21] <dholbach> "menu"
[11:21] <sivang> lifeless: just please tell me, what is AIUI ?
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[11:21] <lifeless> sivang: 'as I understand it'
[11:22] <lifeless> wBryce: thanks. I was heading into the info-brokering
haze of 7:20 am before coffee
[11:22] <lifeless> sivang: wBryce here is trying to use oprofile, and it
seems to install and start ok, but further things are wonky ...
[11:22] <lifeless> wBryce: over to you
[11:22] <str8edge> dholbach: would it be reasonable to file a wishlist
type bug against menu? I really think is should say "Ubuntu" or "Ubuntu
Universe" instead of "debian".
[11:22] <wBryce> It works but it's not allowing me to add extra events.
Or change the events.
[11:23] <dholbach> str8edge: hmhmhmhmhm, maybe
[11:23] <sivang> wBryce: what does adding/changing events require? do you
have knowledge of what underlying operatoins it tries to do?
[11:23] <wBryce> Is it supposed to work in breezy? With the default
kernet etc.
[11:24] <wBryce> sivang: It will need to talk to it's kernel module.
[11:24] <str8edge> dholbach: its a couple of lines to change, and an
[11:24] <wBryce> Adding events means changing the CPU's performance
monitoring registers.
[11:24] <lifeless> wBryce: its a universe package which means 'best
effort, no warranty' .. and the guys here like sivang will often do
heroic things and make that 'best effort' real.
[11:24] <str8edge> I could spend some time tonight and include the diff
[11:24] <sivang> wBryce: maybe running it as root helps?
[11:24] <str8edge> in the bug report that is.
[11:25] <dholbach> i'm off to bed guys
[11:25] <\sh> wBryce: do u see the kernel module in lib/modules/*?
[11:26] <wBryce> So, adding things like senondary cache misses to be
monitored or instructions completed (vs clocks)
[11:26] <wBryce> The kernel module is loaded. (lsmod | grep oprofile
shows it).
[11:27] <sivang> wBryce: did you use apt-get install to get it?
[11:27] <sivang> I mean, or compiled from source?
[11:27] <wBryce> sivang: I used synaptic, so apt-get indirectly.
[11:28] <sivang> wBryce: cool , I'm trying this as well
[11:28] <slomo> lol... "As a former philosophy major, it disturbs me to
think that things disappear when no one is looking at them, but that's
exactly what happens in Python. In general, you can simply forget about
memory management and let Python clean up after you."
[11:28] <\sh> wBryce: can u do me a favor and try the debian version?
[11:28] <wBryce> I'm OK with needing to build my own kernel and install
from source.
[11:28] <\sh> 0.9.1-4 ;)
[11:28] <sivang> wBryce: I have the pkg installed, now what shoudl I do
in order to see your bug?
[11:28] <\sh> wBryce: no...only the source package from debian ;)
[11:28] <\sh> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/source/oprofile
[11:29] <sivang> \sh: I can try that for him
[11:29] <\sh> sivang: ok
[11:29] <sivang> \sh: what do you say?
[11:29] <wBryce> \sh: I'll repro for sivang first
[11:29] <sivang> wBryce: yes, now what shoudl I do ? (I habe it
[11:29] <wBryce> As root
[11:29] <wBryce> opcontrol --start
[11:30] <sivang> ok, I need to give it vmlinux, sec
[11:30] <wBryce> opcontrol --dump
[11:30] <wBryce> add --no-linux
[11:31] <sivang> k, another sec
[11:31] <wBryce> In another window run opreport |less
[11:31] <\sh> I'm compiling the debian version now an dtest
[11:31] <wBryce> That will show you what it's reporting.
[11:31] <sivang> \sh: cool
[11:31] <\sh> I have to go to bed but anyways...
[11:32] <wBryce> run as root: opcontrol --event=RETIRED_OPS:100000
[11:32] <sivang> \sh: I can continue with this, if you hint me enough :)
[11:32] <wBryce> That will add retired ops.
[11:32] <wBryce> then opcontrol --reset
[11:32] <wBryce> opcontrol --dump
[11:33] <sivang> wBryce: seems opcontrol won't accept --no-linux
[11:33] <wBryce> The last two just clear out old profiling info.
[11:34] <wBryce> sorry it's --no-vmlinux. I answered from memory, not the
man page.
[11:34] <sivang> wBryce: yes, just noticed it :)
[11:34] <sivang> wBryce: ok, profiling is running
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[11:34] <sivang> wBryce: no --dump?
[11:34] <wBryce> Then run opreport again.
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[11:35] <sivang> s/no/now/
[11:35] <wBryce> opcontrol --dump works here.
[11:35] <sivang> wBryce: should I do --dump now? (before oreport)
[11:35] <wBryce> sivang: Yes, it's not really needed, but will help.
[11:36] <sivang> wBryce: ok, I've reached the point of opreport | less in
anothe window
[11:36] <wBryce> If you don't then there may be new good samples there
that haven't been flushed to disk.
[11:37] <sivang> wBryce: ok, I will now do --reset
[11:37] <sivang> it singalled the daemon, and done
[11:37] <\sh> root@shermann-laptop:~ # opcontrol --
[11:37] <\sh> You cannot specify any performance counter events
[11:37] <\sh> because OProfile is in timer mode.
[11:38] <\sh> do i have to stop it first?
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[11:38] <wBryce> \sh: That means your kernel doesn't have the support
[11:39] <\sh> root@shermann-laptop:~ # lsmod|grep op
[11:39] <\sh> oprofile               28288 1
[11:39] <wBryce> Don't know the exact details, I asked on #oprofile
[11:39] <wBryce> So it's running in timer only mode.
[11:39] <sivang> wBryce: the FAQ says something on support modules, we
need to check
[11:39] <sivang> wBryce: what does timer only mode means?
[11:40] <wBryce> It means it doesn't have kernel support to get at the
performance counters on the CPU.
[11:40] <ajmitch> there won't be any more kernel changes for breezy,
obviously :)
[11:40] <\sh> wBryce: when the modules are kernel based, and they're not
build by our kernel...
[11:40] <sivang> maybe this should go as a uninverse candidate ?
[11:40] <ajmitch> what kernel are you using? -686?
[11:40] <wBryce> I'm running a breezy kernel. They seem to be there.
[11:41] <wBryce> kernel Linux version 2.6.12-9-386 (buildd@rothera)
[11:41] <ajmitch> right
[11:41] <ajmitch> -686 might have the support since it's cpu specific?
[11:41] <ajmitch> iirc the performance counter registers were added with
the pentium
[11:41] <sivang> wBryce: what
[11:41] <wBryce> But I'm running an amd64.
[11:42] <\sh> wBryce: but running a i386 kernel?
[11:42] <ajmitch> and amd64 with a 32bit install?
[11:42] <sivang> ajmitch: what do I do to see the kernel modules loaded?
I grepped for "oprofile" but nothing
[11:42] <wBryce> opcontrol -l shows the correct counters for an amd 64.
[11:42] <wBryce> bryce@gridpoint:~$ lsmod | grep oprofile
[11:42] <wBryce> oprofile                28288 1
[11:43] <ajmitch> wBryce: but the kernel support _may_ nto be there for
the 386 kernel?
[11:43] <sivang> root@bluespace:/home/pooh # opcontrol -l
[11:43] <sivang> Using timer interrupt.
=== ajmitch hasn't used oprofile so can't tell
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[11:43] <wBryce> ajmitch: But it can read the counters correctly for AMD
64. Which is different to the counters for AMD 32 and any Intel.
[11:43] <sivang> I don't have that kernel module
[11:43] <sivang> weird
[11:44] <ajmitch> right
[11:44] <wBryce> My install is very clean at this point. It's only a few
days old.
[11:44] <Kyral> hmmm
[11:44] <sivang> ajmitch: you got the kernel module? I'm using 2.6.12-9-
[11:44] <Kyral> I think I need to clean up my program
[11:45] <Kyral> is there a template for a manpage?
[11:45] <\sh> ajmitch: btw...can u mail/ping/ask elmo for a sync of
oprofile 0.9.1-4 from debian...it builds clean and runs
[11:45] <sivang> Kyral: btw, what is it able to save at this point ?
[11:46] <sivang> \sh: isn't that the case for the ubuntu version ? isn't
the problem that we miss the kernel module or something ?
[11:46] <Kyral> Package Selections, XOrg.Conf/XF86Config, fstab,
network/interfaces, and the sources.list
[11:46] <wBryce> \sh: How do I do a source debian install? (I've only got
another 30 min tonight).
[11:46] <wBryce> Only if it would help you diagnose.
[11:47] <\sh> wBryce: well...at least you need a chroot or pbuilder or
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[11:47] <\sh> wBryce: but it's only a new debian revision...so I think
there is no source change
[11:47] <Kyral> does the ">" operator in bash scripting append or just
completly wipe out and replace whatever its directing output to?
[11:48] <\sh> Kyral: > overwrites
[11:48] <\sh> Kyral: >> appends
[11:48] <Kyral> okay///
[11:48] <Kyral> just makin' sure
[11:48] <wBryce> I solved my original problem. So there's no short term
urgency for it from me.
[11:49] <Kyral> Now how do I make a damn manpage?
[11:49] <\sh> wBryce: but I can send you 386 packages via mail or
something for the debian version to test...you need to install them by
hand with sudo dpkg -i *.deb
[11:49] <sivang> wBryce: how did you solve it ?
[11:49] <sivang> \sh: do you know then what is the problem with that
[11:49] <\sh> sivang: I think it's more a kernel issue with some modules
and cpu archs
[11:50] <wBryce> the straight clocks timer was enough. The original
problem was finding out why compiled Squeak code was sometimes 10x slower
than interpreted.
[11:50] <Kyral> anyway sivang I'll wipe out the .ex files I don't need in
debian and clean up rules then upload it to REVU so you can take a look
at it
[11:50] <wBryce> \sh: A kernel/versioning problem sounds right to me.
(I'm NOT an oprofile dev though).
=== sivang learend about 10 news things today, thank you wBryce
[11:50] <sivang> Kyral: cool
[11:51] <sivang> actually, this last 30 miutes or so
[11:51] <Kyral> I *think* I can knock out the docs dir, but what is the
"dirs" file for
[11:51] <\sh> wBryce: well...not a versioning problem..it's more an arch
problem as I understand ajmitch correctly...i386 doesn't have all and
from i586 on it should support some things more
[11:51] <sivang> nice to know such implementation of Smalltalk exist
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[11:52] <\sh> sivang: you learn new things every day lurking around here,
or doing some packaging work...you will learn, what is good code, what
are quick hacks and even which is crappy sourcecode ;)
[11:52] <sivang> \sh: I wish I had all day lurking around here :)
[11:53] <sivang> \sh: so, lets see if I understodo corectly. Our current
i686 kernle doesn't have the required modules, so how you sending him the
debian pkgs might help?
[11:53] <\sh> sivang: ah...and you will learn how to smoke 40gram of
tobacco in < 1 day and drink more then 10 bottles of koelsch in < 1 day
[11:53] <sivang> lol
[11:53] <\sh> sivang: i'm using 386 standard kernel
[11:54] <sivang> \sh: well, I don't smoke so that's and regarding
drinking, I told you already I am not a big drinker :)
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[11:54] <\sh> sivang: and there are some differences with i686 kernels or
amd/amd64 kernels
[11:54] <sivang> \sh: and you got the modules?
[11:54] <\sh> sivang: no
[11:54] <\sh> at least only one...this oprofile
[11:55] <\sh> sivang: and they're in the kernel packages
[11:55] <\sh> not coming from oprofile itself
[11:55] <sivang> \sh: I don't even have that one
[11:55] <\sh> lsmod|grep oprofile
[11:55] <sivang> ah, I now have
[11:55] <sivang> darn
[11:55] <sivang> must be me making spellig mistakes in grep again
[11:56] <\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-k7-
[11:56] <\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-
[11:56] <\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-686-
[11:56] <\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-
[11:56] <\sh> lib/modules/2.6.12-9-
[11:56] <\sh> all there ;)
[11:56] <sivang> uh ha
[11:56] <sivang> ok, thanks for the clarification
[11:57] <wBryce> \sh: So if I try a differnent kernel you suspect it
might work?
[11:58] <\sh> wBryce: hmmm...if you have an amd64 you should use an amd64
[11:58] <\sh> if there is one ;)
[11:59] <\sh> wBryce: honestly I don't know...I never used this package
[11:59] <wBryce> \sh: Well, that doesn't work for two reasons. First I'd
need to get ndiswrappers working to get network access. Second, running
that kernel Squeak crashes and I don't want to upgrade VMs until I've
fixed a few more bugs. (One's fixed today thanks to oprofile).
[11:59] <\sh> wBryce: but you could join #ubuntu-kernel and ask there,
all our kernel gurus are waiting there :)
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[12:00] <\sh> ok...I have only 5 hours left to sleep....:(
[12:00] <wBryce> I'm counting minutes not hours now.
[12:00] <wBryce> So should oprofile work in breezy?
[12:00] <\sh> wBryce: it should
[12:01] <ajmitch> \sh: it's not just a matter of whether the module is
there, as it is how the module is compiled :)
[12:01] <\sh> wBryce: the package is meant to work with 2.6. kernel in
debian, so it should work here as well
[12:01] <ajmitch> I wouldn't expect the -386 module to be using pentium
[12:01] <\sh> ajmitch: me neither :)
[12:01] <\sh> ajmitch: so as I said, it's a kernel issue...not oprofiles

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