TUESDAY, 14 JUNE 2005

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					14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 1 OF 175

                          TUESDAY, 14 JUNE 2005

                                  ____



                  PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

                                  ____



The House met at 14:31.



The Speaker took the Chair.



ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.



           SEVEN DA YOUTH LEAGUE MEMBERS DEFECT TO ANCYL



                          (Member‟s Statement)



Ms T V TOBIAS (ANC): Madam Speaker, yesterday ushered in a moment of

reality in the political arena when seven senior members of the DA

youth leadership joined the ANC Youth League. This included the

national chairperson, Douglas Bheki Nkosi; the secretary-general,

Lawrence Lekhanya; the national organiser, Louis Sauls, and other

senior leaders.



The decision by these wise, patriotic and young South Africans

coincided with the DA Federal Council‟s threats to penalise members

who chose to leave the party. These threats didn‟t stop the senior
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DA youth leadership to leave this rightwing party and join the

masses in the progressive youth movement known as the ANC Youth

League.



These fearless and innocent young people were welcomed with open

arms to join the progressive and advanced catchment of the current

generation of youth in the ANC Youth League. This also symbolises

the fact that our people will continue to resist being coerced to

rally against the popular and democratic liberation movement.

[Interjections.]



We believe that we will continue to realise that indeed the DA

represents a racist agenda and is a cabal aligned on the basis of

racial segregation seeking to take advantage of our people.

[Interjections.]



Therefore, as the ANC Youth League, we will continue to say: “South

Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white.”



The only rightful political home for these young people remains the

ANC, because it is the only liberation movement that has adopted the

Freedom Charter and represents their ideals at all times.



Aluta Continua! [Applause.]
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 3 OF 175

     DECISION TO REMOVE DEPUTY PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA FROM OFFICE



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Mr A J LEON (DA): Madam Speaker, the great Nobel Peace Laureate,

Chief Albert Luthuli, once said: “What we need is courage that rises

with danger.”



Today, I believe, President Mbeki has shown that courage. He faced a

very difficult decision with clear political costs. Yet, in the end,

he chose to uphold principle over politics and we in the opposition

salute him for it. [Applause.]



The President today, in his remarks before Parliament, said that he

and the country were called upon to make an original judgment, which

was without precedent. Indeed he is right, but he also, in our view,

made the right judgment. Therefore, today will be remembered as a

great victory for our young democracy.



The fight against corruption, however, is far from over.



The truth about the arms deal continues to haunt South Africa like a

vengeful ghost. It will not be put to rest until we finally conduct

a full, independent, judicial investigation into the arms deal and

the corruption at the heart of it.
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I believe that the President should fulfil the example he set here

today and shine the light of justice in every corridor of government

until the trust of the people has been fully restored.



Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]



         SHAREHOLDERS TO BENEFIT FROM BARCLAYS-ABSA MERGER



                           (Member‟s Statement)



Mr L K JOUBERT (IFP): Madam Speaker, I will move that the IFP has

noticed with appreciation the approval by the shareholders of Absa

of the merger and therefore accepting the fact that the controlling

equity of Absa will in future be held by Barclays. This approval by

the shareholders opens the way for Barclays to invest more than R30

billion in South Africa.



The South African business sector welcomes this investment and the

significant boost to our economy. The IFP sincerely believes in the

multiplier effect on our economy and trusts that this massive

investment will only be the start of many other investments to

follow. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]



The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, it sounds as if you are putting a

motion before the House. We are dealing with statements, so I will
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not be dealing with that as a motion. It‟s on record and it will be

dealt with as a statement.



               RIDDING THE COUNTRY OF CHILD PORNOGRAPHY



                         (Member‟s Statement)



Mr M P SIBANDE (ANC): Madam Speaker, South Africa must intensify the

fight to uphold the rights of its children. In this connection, the

ANC applauds the recently held conference organised by the

Department of Home Affairs and the Film and Publications Board in

search of a sustainable programme of action against child

pornography.



We share the sentiments expressed by the Minister of Home Affairs

that our country needs to strengthen efforts to protect children. As

a society, political parties, business, civil society and

communities, we need to join together to rid our country and the

world of the vampires who feed on the defenceless and the weak.



The initiative by the Department of Home Affairs and the Film and

Publications Board constitutes a call to all of us to open our eyes

to our children‟s suffering and to hear their pleas for the

enjoyment of their right to be children. Let us work to ensure that

all our children enjoy the fruits of freedom. Let us ensure that

they enjoy the better life we worked to create. Let us, on a daily
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 6 OF 175

basis, work together to create the conditions for them to realise

the dreamy future at the end of their cognitive horizon. I thank

you. [Applause.]



          MINISTER LIABLE FOR DAMAGES IN POLICE RAPE CASE



                          (Member‟s Statement)



Ms N C NKABINDE (UDM): Madam Speaker, the UDM welcomes yesterday‟s

ruling by the Constitutional Court in the case of the woman who was

raped by three policemen in 1999. The brutal gang rape by three on-

duty policemen resulted in life imprisonment for all of them.



However, the rape survivor‟s quests to claim damages from the

government for the conduct of these three policemen were refused by

two courts before the matter came before the Constitutional Court.



It is important to note that the rapists were on duty, wearing

police uniforms and driving a police vehicle when they committed

their despicable deeds.



We salute the Constitutional Court for confirming that it is the

duty of government, through the Police Service, to protect women

from crimes such as rape.
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These criminals abused their position of trust to lure this woman

into their vehicle and then proceeded to abuse everything that the

Police Service stands for.



There are many dedicated policemen and women in our country who are

fighting a relentless battle against crime. Often they do this in

spite of insufficient resources and under immense strain. They

follow this calling for a small salary and put their lives on the

line every day. They know that there are many criminals out there

who are prepared to kill them instead of facing justice.



Despite these overwhelming odds, the majority of members of our

Police Service diligently execute their duties. In such

circumstances it must be highly demoralising for them to discover

that in their midst there are people such as these criminals who

would abuse their uniforms to commit the very crimes that their

colleagues are dedicating their lives to fighting.



This judgment sends a strong message to all of those who want to

abuse their position to commit rape. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

[Applause.]



                  DEBT RELIEF ANNOUNCEMENT BY G-8



                        (Member‟s Statement)
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Mr S SIMMONS (NNP): Madam Speaker, on Saturday the world‟s

wealthiest countries announced the cancellation of multilateral

debts owed by 18 countries, mainly African nations, to the World

Bank, the International Monetary Fund and the African Development

Bank. The cancellation of debt will enable governments of the

developing countries to determine priorities to sustain the lives of

the people living in their countries. These countries will now be

able to channel money into much-needed human development programmes.



Other steps would see an international facility paying for

vaccinations in poor countries, a doubling of development aid and an

end to trade-distorting farm subsidies in rich countries.



Nine other countries will become eligible for 100% debt relief,

totalling an extra $11 billion over the next 12 to 18 months, after

which 11 nations could receive similar debt cancellation of $4

billion, bringing the total amount of debt relief to $55 billion.



Debt relief is a vital part of a broad strategy to wipe away chronic

poverty in Africa. Therefore, the NNP welcomes the announcement by

the G8 industrialised nations to write off more than $265 billion of

African debt.



Thank you, Madam Speaker.
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  PRESIDENT’S DECISION TO REMOVE DEPUTY PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA FROM

                               OFFICE



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Mr S N SWART (ACDP): Madam Speaker, the ACDP welcomes President

Thabo Mbeki‟s announcement this afternoon to “release” Deputy

President Jacob Zuma from office.



The ACDP has consistently called for the resignation of the Deputy

President following Judge Hilary Squires‟s finding that Schabir

Shaik and the Deputy President had a “generally corrupt”

relationship.



There can be no doubt that the President‟s decision is the right

thing to do, particularly in view of his commitment to rid the

government and the ANC of corruption. This decision sends a strong

message that the President will not pay lip service to his

commitments but is prepared to act toughly against corruption,

despite political pressure.



The ACDP believes that the country stood at the brink of a great

moral impasse following the judgment and the calls to protect the

then Deputy President Zuma. President Mbeki is to be commended for

taking decisive action and not bowing to political pressure that

would have undermined the collective morality of the nation.
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We trust that this decision also implies that Deputy President Zuma

will no longer head the Moral Regeneration Movement.



We maintain that Deputy President Jacob Zuma should be prosecuted in

view of the overwhelming evidence against him in the Shaik trial.

This will give him the opportunity to put his side of the story.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.



    HUMBULANI THENGA CONGRATULATED ON HER ATHLETICS PERFORMANCE



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Mrs T J TSHIVHASE: Ri fhululedza muhali wa vhahali: “The girl child

in the sports field”. Halalaa! Humbulani Irene Thenga, aged 17 in

grade 12. Ri khou fhululedza gombakomba Humbulani Thenga wa

Shayandima Secondary, hune nda dzula hone, Venda. O gidima fhethu

hunzhisa ri tshi katela na mashangodavha, a tshi dzhia vhuimo ha u

thoma na ha vhuvhili.



Ngei France o gidima nahone a wana khaphu na mendele muthihi ngeno

ngei Switzerland kha track na field nahone o wana khaphu nthihi na

mendele muthihi. Fhano hayani Afurika Tshipembe o gidima mitambo ine

ya nga sa marathon 10km, 15km na 21km; track field; cross-country;

na land of lagans. O wana mimendele ya 75 sa pfufho dzawe –

(Translation of Venda paragraphs follows.)
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[Mrs TJ TSHIVHASE: We congratulate the heroine of heroines: A 17-

year-old, Humbulani Thenga, a girl child in the sports field who is

currently doing grade 12. We shout, “Halala!” to this young girl

from Shayandima Secondary School in Venda, where I come from. She

participated in many international races, securing positions one and

two respectively.



In France she received a cup and medal, and in Switzerland she got

the same in both track and field events. Here at home, she

participated in 10km, 15km and 21km marathons, as well as in track

and field, cross-country and the Land of Legend Marathon. She has so

far earned about 75 medals as awards.]



She got 40 gold medals, 30 silver medals, 5 bronze medals, 5

trophies and 10 certificates.



Halalaa! gombakomba, Humbulani, Halalaa! Ni farese. Ri di tongisa

nga inwi. [We again say, “Halala! Humbulani, Halala!” Hold on. We

are very proud of you.]



We are proud of you, my girl.



Ni takulele vhuimo uhu ntha. Ni futelele mpho iyi ye na newa nga

Mudzimu. Hu do itea zwimangadzo. Ni ri takulele ntha musidzana. Ndo

do dzula na Minisita nga u tavhanya, u itela uri vha vhone zwauri
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vha nga ita mini kha tshipida tsha uri hoyu nwana a wane thuso

ngauri, (Translation of Venda paragraph follows.)



[Keep on stepping forward. This is a God-given talent. A lot more is

still coming. Keep on uplifting us, young girl. I have spoken to the

Minister with a view to him devising a means to assist this girl

child.]



She is an outstanding child – the girl child. [Applause.]



                    DIVISION IN WESTERN CAPE ANC



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Mnr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Speaker, die aanloop tot die ANC se Wes-

Kaapse provinsiale kongres, die aggressie gedurende die kongres . .

. [Tussenwerpsels.] . . . en die uitslae het die diep verdeeldheid

wat daar in die ANC se Wes-Kaap geledere is duidelik na vore

gebring.



Die algemene indruk dat die verdeeldheid ook rasgebaseerd is, plaas

‟n demper op dienslewering in die provinsie. Die feit dat Ebrahim

Rasool in die toekoms as ‟n lam, tandlose premier sal optree, sal

ook tot gevolg hê dat die baie swak diensrekord van sy administrasie

tot rampspoedige vlakke sal daal. [Tussenwerpsels.]
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Die neiging van die ANC om slegs sy eie ondersteuners te beloon, sal

dramaties toeneem. Die party se beleid om eerder in die

behuisingsbehoeftes van nuwe aankomelinge te voorsien, ten koste van

inwoners wat baie jare op die waglys is, is ‟n duidelike bewys van

die blatante onreg wat onder die ANC-regering plaasvind.

[Tussenwerpsels.] ‟n Provinsiale regering wat nie die steun van sy

kieserskorps het nie, sal hierdie onreg verder laat toeneem.



Teen dié agtergrond bied die DA ‟n sterk alternatief, wat goeie

regering, ‟n einde aan wanadministrasie én ‟n verwerping van die

huidige boetie-boetie-beleid van die ANC tot gevolg sal hê. Ek dank

u. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s

statement follows.)



[Mr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Speaker, the run-up to the ANC‟s Western Cape

provincial congress, the aggression during the congress . . .

[Interjections.] . . .   and the results brought the deep divisions

that exist within the ANC‟s Western Cape ranks to the fore.



The general impression that the division is also race based places a

damper on service delivery in the province. The fact that Ebrahim

Rasool will act like a tame, toothless premier in future will also

result in the very poor service record of his administration

declining to devastating levels. [Interjections.]
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The tendency of the ANC to reward only its own supporters will

increase dramatically. The party‟s policy of rather providing for

the housing needs of new arrivals, at the expense of residents who

have been on waiting lists for many years, is a clear example of the

blatant injustice that occurs under the ANC government.

[Interjections.] A provincial government that does not have the

support of its electorate will let this injustice escalate further.



Against this background the DA offers a strong alternative that will

result in good governance, an end to maladministration and rejection

of the current buddy-buddy policy of the ANC. I thank you.

[Interjections.]]



                DEPUTY PRESIDENT’S RELEASE FROM DUTY



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Mr B E PULE (UCDP): Madam Speaker, the UCDP accepts that a person is

not guilty until proven guilty. The UCDP accepts that the outgoing

Deputy President has to be given a chance to clear his name. The

UCDP accepts that the ANC and its alliance partners have the right

to retain the Deputy President as the Deputy President of their

organisation.



The UCDP has, however, been very concerned about the unrelenting

attack on the good dignity of the office of the Deputy President of
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the country. The announcement, by the President of the Republic of

South Africa, to relieve the Deputy President of his duties has

therefore been received with great enthusiasm by the UCDP. Thank

you.



                MINISTER OF EDUCATION CONGRATULATED



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Ms L L MABE (ANC): Madam Speaker, as the ANC we would like to

congratulate the Minister of Education . . .



. . . mo legatong la baagi ba Maologane, bakgatla le baagi ba Moses

Kotane, morago ga dingwaga-ngwaga bana ba ntse ba tsenela sekolo mo

meagong e e sa babalesegang e bile batsadi ba sena madi a go ka

ikagela sekolo se seša, puso e tlisitse meago ya namaotshwere e

mentle, e e bothitho, e e babalesegileng. Bana ba rona jannong, ba

ya sekolong ba le matlhagatlhaga.



Setšhaba se ka itumela thata fa sekolo se se kopantsweng, e leng

sekolo se se potlana le sekontari, se ka tsenngwa mo tekanyetsong

gore ba agelwe sekolo se se maleba mo nakong e e sa fediseng pelo,

ka gore ga baa bolo go ema dingwaga-ngwaga ba letile gore sekolo se

agiwe.
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Re lebogela kutlwisiso le bopelotelele ba lona bakgatla le matsapa a

puso le Lefapha la Thuto le a dirileng. A pula e le nela bakgatla. A

pula e le nele Maaforika Borwa. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.] (Translation

of Tswana paragraphs follows.)



[. . . on behalf of the Bakgatla tribe, residents of Maologane and

Moses Kotane. For many years, their children have been learning in

unsafe school buildings, because the parents did not have money to

build new ones. The government has erected beautiful temporary

structures which are sound and safe. Our children will now be

motivated to go to school.



The community would be very appreciative if the merged primary and

secondary sections of the school could be budgeted for, so that a

better one can be built in the near future. They have already waited

too long.



We would like to thank the Bakgatla tribe for their understanding

and patience; and the Department of Education for the efforts they

made. Let there be peace unto the Bakgatla tribe and the rest of

South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]]



                SITUATION IN OCEAN VIEW IN CAPE TOWN



                        (Member‟s Statement)
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Ms H ZILLE (DA): Madam Speaker, the people of Ocean View in Cape

Town have been marginalised and neglected by the Cape Town Metro

Council. After 11 years of ANC rule, the Mountain View section still

has no RDP housing. Attempts earlier this month to talk to the Metro

council about their plight have left them frustrated, because they

feel their concerns were not addressed.



The community has hopelessly inadequate and unhygienic drainage and

sewage systems. In addition, the children of people living in the

navy houses are forced to move out of the homes when they turn 18.

These children have nowhere else to go. Parents are faced with an

impossible choice: lose their home or evict their children.



The ANC‟s plans for housing in the Metro appear to ignore

established communities who have been waiting patiently. Instead,

the focus is on ANC strongholds in the run-up to the local

elections. The DA urges the government to deliver houses and

services to all the people, irrespective of race or voting

allegiance. [Applause.]



                DEPUTY PRESIDENT’S RELEASE FROM DUTY



                          (Member‟s Statement)

Prince M G BUTHELEZI (IFP): Madam Speaker, following the President‟s

announcement that he is relieving the Deputy President of his

responsibilities in government in the aftermath of Judge Hilary
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Squires‟s ruling, I would like to appeal to the nation to unite at

this sombre moment. President Mbeki was, of course, correct in

exercising his constitutional prerogative to relieve the Deputy

President of his responsibilities, because the situation hung like a

dark cloud over South Africa and would eventually have paralysed the

executive.



It would have, for instance, been difficult for President Mbeki to

travel to Gleneagles for the G8 summit next month and request

additional aid for Africa if the Deputy President was still in

office, as transparency and accountability are the basic tenets of

governance. In fact, all Africa‟s commitment to the Nepad peer

review would have been rendered meaningless if the President had not

acted decisively in this tragic affair.



On a personal note, I am naturally saddened that a leader of his

stature from our province has fallen. Like many people, I have great

respect for Msholozi and share the pain of losing a leader of his

calibre. He brought a certain charm, warmth and empathy for his

people to his office. The breadth of Mr Zuma‟s support from the

trade unions to the youth testifies to his humanity, which is the

hallmark of the man. He will be sorely missed, and I hope that Mr

Zuma will take the opportunity to take whatever legal remedies he

feels are necessary to clear his name.
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AmaZulu anesisho esibhekise kulabo abaklolodayo esithi inxeba

lendoda alihlekwa. [The Zulu nation has a saying referring to those

who are boasting, namely: What goes around comes around.]

[Applause.]



     DECISION BY G8 TO WRITE OFF MORE THAN $40 BILLION IN DEBT



                        (Member‟s Statement)



Ms M M MADUMISE (ANC): Madam Speaker, we welcome the announcement

made by the finance Ministers from the Group of 8 most-

industrialised countries to write off more than $40 billion owed to

the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund by the 18 poorest

countries of the world. The decision to cancel the debt will help

the listed African countries to invest in the fight against

diseases, the development of infrastructure, as well as the building

of institutional capacity for good governance and service delivery.



The commitment made over the weekend by the finance Ministers is a

major victory for progressive humanity in its struggle for a better

life for the people of the world. The ANC commits itself to work

tirelessly with the world‟s progressive community, governments and

the multilateral institutions to intensify our campaign for a

comprehensive response to the challenges of poverty and

underdevelopment in Africa.
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In addition to the scrapping of debt, this response must include

greater aid, grant funding and a fairer world trading system. Thank

you. [Applause.]



The SPEAKER: Hon members, before I call for Ministers‟ responses, I

would like to take this opportunity to recognise a veteran Southern

African politician, the hon John Nkomo, the Speaker of the

Zimbabwean parliament, and his delegation. [Applause.]




WELCOMING OF DEBT RELIEF, DA’S FAILURE TO SPEND RESOURCES ON HOUSING

          IN THE WESTERN CAPE AND THEIR NEW KIND OF RACISM



                       (Minister‟s Response)



The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, just a brief comment on two

of the statements, one by the NNP and the other by the ANC, that

welcome the debt relief and additional aid and also make a strong

call for a timetable to lift the trade-distorting subsidies, as

decided by the G8 this weekend: it‟s exceedingly important for

Africa, and I want to commend both statements.



But more importantly, I would like to respond to the statements by

the hon Opperman and the hon Zille, because they are completely out

of order. Firstly, they failed to get up in this House and remind us

of the role of the DA - in whatever shape or form it‟s been in
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 21 OF 175

government in this province and in this city for the bulk of the

past 11 years. [Applause.] They are failing to recognise or advise

South Africans of the deficits that have grown because of their

failure to spend resources on housing the poor over the bulk of the

11 years in this province. [Applause.]



They are now involved in a vain attempt to play Pontius Pilate and

suggest that the housing shortages arrived after the ANC came into

power in this province. It‟s a shameful attempt on the part of the

DA, because these housing shortages have been there.



Moreover, we must not allow them to get away with this new kind of

racism, which seeks to exclude those whom they call “recent

arrivals” into this province. It we allow them to take forward this

notion of “amaguduga” we will in fact be instilling a new racism, a

new class formation in this province. We shouldn‟t allow it; we

should resist it with every fibre of our being. Thank you very much.

[Applause.]



              THE DA SHOULD CONTRIBUTE TO OUR DEMOCRACY



                        (Minister‟s Response)



The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Madam Speaker, earlier today, in

what will be a statement long remembered, our President reminded us

of the fundamental tenets of this democracy that we all fight for
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 22 OF 175

and strive for. One of the key tenets was respect for the

Constitution that we have and for the institutions enumerated in

that Constitution. I would urge the DA to listen, because we all

have a duty to contribute to this democracy.



It‟s with great regret that we have to point out that the leader of

the opposition stood up immediately after this profound moment in

our history and completely disrespected the constitutional

structures. [Interjections.] The President outlined in some detail

what had been decided by the constitutional structures of this

country, but the Leader of the Opposition immediately thereafter

stood up and denied the findings that had been read out quite

clearly and explicitly. [Interjections.]



I think if this party would like to contribute to this democracy,

they should respect the institutions that have made determinations

on this matter, and I think they should take some wise council from

the leader of the IFP and recognise it. This is not the moment for

politicking. This is a moment in our democracy that we should all

reflect on and treat soberly, and not be a bunch of empty, bloody,

useless cans. [Interjections.] [Applause.]



                JUDGMENT OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT



                       (Minister‟s Response)
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The MINISTER FOR SAFETY AND SECURITY: Madam Speaker, I appreciate

the remarks which were made by the hon Nkabinde with respect to the

judgment of the Constitutional Court the other day, particularly

when she made the observation that the great majority of members of

the SA Police Service do their work conscientiously. In fact, it is

because of that conscientious work, the loyalty to our democracy and

the mandate that they have for the protection of our population that

they exhaustively investigated the case against those three

perpetrators. They will consequently be put away behind bars for

life.



I just want to take a few seconds to explain how we have arrived at

this issue. To us, the principle we wanted to emphasise was that

nobody who committed serious and violent crimes should fall back on

the state for sustenance. This is all we were saying, namely that as

far as we were concerned, the book ought to be thrown at these three

people. They themselves ought to have ensured that they continued to

be responsible for their actions and therefore they should not call

upon the state to fund them with respect to the ramifications of

that particular matter.



Of course, I have been told that one of the newspapers in this

country had a headline that read: “Minister for Safety and Security

liable for rape”. Fortunately I have a partner who understands that

I will never be liable for rape. [Applause.]
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 24 OF 175

                 PROVISION OF CLASSROOM FACILITIES



                       (Minister‟s Response)



The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I want to respond to the

hon member Mabe. With respect to the provision of classroom

facilities for children in the North West province, I want to

indicate that, in fact, in each of our provinces where facilities

are required for our children, sod-turning is happening as we speak.

It is in fact my colleagues in the provinces who are responsible for

providing infrastructure and who should be congratulated on every

achievement that we make in this regard.



We have undertaken that we must accelerate provision of classrooms

for our children. I‟ve been very pleased to note the movement of

children into school buildings in the North West province, in

Limpopo and in areas of Gauteng, and we hope that we will continue

our work to eradicate the inadequacy of infrastructure for children

in our education system. [Applause.]



                  PRECEDENCE TO ORDERS OF THE DAY



                         (Draft Resolution)



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the

draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
14 JUNE 2005                                   PAGE: 25 OF 175



  That, notwithstanding the provisions of Rules 29(8) and 113(1),

  Questions shall not have precedence tomorrow, 15 June 2005.



Agreed to.



  EXTENDED DATES OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON APPOINTMENT OF DEPUTY

                            PUBLIC PROTECTOR



                           (Draft Resolution)



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on

behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft

resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:



  That the House, with reference to the resolution adopted on 17 May

  2005,   extends   the   date   by   which   the   Ad   Hoc   Committee   on

  Appointment of Deputy Public Protector has to report to the House

  to 18 August 2005.



Agreed to.



                          MOTION OF CONDOLENCE



             (The late Queen Makobo Modjadji of Bolobedu)
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 26 OF 175

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without

notice:



That the House -



  (1)     notes -



          (a)   with shock and profound sadness the untimely death of

                Queen Makobo Modjadji of Bolobedu community in Limpopo;



          (b) that the Bolobedu community have been led by Rain

                Queens for more than two centuries and that Queen

                Makobo Modjadji was crowned Queen of the Bolobedu in

                April 2003;



   (2)    believes Queen Modjadji leaves a legacy of consistent

          commitment to community development and her outstanding

          leadership was further proof of the capacity of women to

          unite our people as we work for a better life for all; and



    (3) expresses its condolences to the members of the Modjadji

          royal family and the Bolobedu community.



Agreed to.
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 27 OF 175

             CREATE YOUTH EMPLOYMENT AND FIGHT POVERTY



                         (Debate on Topic)



The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I am aware that there are

many young people from schools across all the provinces of our

country and we welcome them to Parliament today. [Applause.] Many of

them participated in a parliamentary youth debate in the NCOP

Chamber this morning. I listened in on their debate and I have to

say that they would put some of us to shame if they were with us in

this House today - very good. [Applause.]



On 16 June each year, we remember and commemorate the 1976 Soweto

protests. On 16 June 1976, Soweto exploded. The protests soon spread

to all parts of the country. Young learners were the key actors and

student leaders were the key leaders. The protest began with a

rejection of the imposition of Afrikaans in education and ended by

rocking the old regime to its foundations. Hundreds died and were

injured, as the authorities struggled to assert control over our

people.



This massive protest marked the emergence of a new generation of

leaders. In its aftermath, thousands fled the country into exile,

formed mass-based organisations and the old regime became

increasingly isolated by this example set by the young people of our

country. The rest, as they say, is history. Their participation and
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 28 OF 175

leadership in the protest meant many young people never finished

their schooling and never had the opportunity for education.



All of us know that June 16 is inextricably bound up with the name

of young Hector Peterson, but there were many other heroes and

heroines. These young people fought against an illegal regime,

invigorated the struggle for freedom and drew world attention to

South Africa. They began on that day what was to become a national

and world mobilisation against apartheid.



Today, we have a single education system, and education is now

compulsory for children of school-going age. We have a participation

rate that is nearly a 100%. We have parity of access between boys

and girls in our country and we have transformed the institutional

landscape of higher and further education.



Yet, as we celebrate our freedom and the advances we have made in

building our new democracy, where increasingly our youth have access

to high-quality opportunities, unemployment remains stubbornly high

on the list of social problems that confront young people.



No matter how successful we are in creating jobs – and we have been

successful – we are still not creating enough jobs and alternative

development opportunities for school-leavers and young people

graduating from our universities.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 29 OF 175

We cannot allow this situation to continue. We must provide viable

opportunities that make a real difference to young people. Urgent

action is required. Youth unemployment must be tackled with

seriousness, focus and purpose.



Our government has created a range of opportunities that addresses

these concerns. Apart from school access, there are many other areas

of response. The Umsobomvu Fund is doing much to promote skills,

development enterprise support and other ways of empowering young

people. Opportunities beyond school level have also grown.



University students were predominantly white in 1993 and now 75% of

those in our universities are black. Even more worthy to report is

that just over 50% of students in higher education are female today.



Yet this is not all. Government-supported learnerships through

Setas benefit young people. Government departments run active

programmes for internships and in the private sector attempts are

being made to create new opportunities for our youth.



The community-development-worker programme of government is

supporting young graduates to enter the Public Service through local

government internships. Yet, despite this progress, as young people

have told me robustly in the last week, we must do more.
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 30 OF 175

We need to create a wide and diverse range of skills-development

programmes – in the arts, film-making and music development for

young people, the writing of new poetry and novels, as well as

access to opportunities in the sciences.



We also need to attend to programmes that would address the needs of

youths who have never been to school. Some need basic literacy

support while others need skills training.



Our work, with the FET colleges, will in the next five years make

technical training a viable choice for young people in our country.

We will also, in partnership with the Department of Communications,

attend to skills development in information communications

technologies, both at the technology-skills level as well as at the

business-creation side.



Furthermore, all of us must work with the private sector - the real

job creators - to formulate youth development partnerships in the

form of skills development programmes. In order to address all these

areas, however, we need data, and not speculation.



Has the time not arrived for our country to create youth information

offices in every municipality so that young people have a visible

place to go to for help and information? We also must refer to the

immense courage, integrity and community concern that the young

people of 1976 exhibited.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 31 OF 175

Perhaps we need to have more than a national day to celebrate the

youth who stood up against the might of apartheid and did what was

right. We should look into developing real post-school opportunities

on a mass scale for young people. Partnership between public and

private institutions can, I believe, offer real economic

opportunities for young people.



In the education sector, especially at higher level, we should

develop strategies to draw young people into careers in knowledge

production and innovation. Currently, our leading scientists are

male and ageing. Young researchers should be developed and given

opportunities for knowledge creation.



We also must continue our fight against poverty. But what are the

enduring lessons of the youth of 1976? Firstly, the courage to rise

against oppression, no matter the odds; secondly, the integrity of

sacrificing self-interest for community and national aspiration;

thirdly, the realisation that principled action and leadership are

necessary partners in a struggle for freedom; fourthly, that

national struggle should be supported by strong mass-based

organisation and be based on the ideals of democratic nonracism,

equity and a resistance to oppression.



These lessons have a deep resonance in the South Africa of today.

The opportunities created by government require this resolve and

hard work from our youth.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 32 OF 175

The challenges of today, such as the plight of HIV and Aids, require

a determined, courageous focused youth that will change negative

lifestyles and adopt a positive living campaign to assist the young

in remaining free of this disease.



Our present-day youth are challenged by the example of the young

South Africans of 1976; our country is now a free and vibrant

democracy. Our young people must take on these new opportunities and

challenges and make them work for building a South Africa that will

never again put young people, parents and communities through the

agonies that were part of the struggle as represented by 1976.



We have also acted to fight poverty. We have exemptions from fees at

the school level. We have a nutrition programme to address the needs

of the poor in our schools. This year we have invested over R1

billion in higher-education training by providing financial support

to the poor. We have access to health care for young children in our

public hospitals and clinics. We provide social grants for children

whose parents have no income. We have the Expanded Public Works

Programme, providing employment in municipalities to community

members that enjoy no economic opportunity.



In each of these areas there are opportunities for young people to

make a difference in our society. Our youth have made a clarion call

for opportunities. I have shown that there are many programmes and

opportunities.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 33 OF 175

Our focus should now turn to ensuring that all our young people have

the information, access and opportunity that allow them to realise

their fullest potential in our society. If we can achieve this, we

will truly build the South Africa of opportunity that the children

of 1976 sacrificed themselves and their opportunities for. I thank

you. [Applause.]



Mr M R MOHLALOGA: Madam Speaker, hon members, on Thursday, 16 June

2005, our country celebrates one of the important days in the

evolution of the history of our struggle against apartheid, an

epoch-making day whose rise, some 29 years ago, marked a turning

point in the determination of our youth to fight the demon of

apartheid and injustice; a day whose rise brought the end of

apartheid much closer and made it more inevitable.



As we commemorate the 29th anniversary of 16 June, we recall the

bravery and the sacrifices of our youth who had perished in

pursuance of our people‟s yearning for freedom and democracy. Many

of our youth had to perish, linger in jail and be separated from

their loved ones in order for us to be free today. Many of them are

not here with us; they died not knowing what it meant to be a free

South African. Their families and children continue to ponder how

life would have been with them in their midst. They have a sense of

permanent loss, a sense of grief - a void that cannot be filled. As

the ANC, we will continue to be guided by the vision, the will and

the desires of these fallen heroes.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 34 OF 175

This day reminds us of the role young people played throughout the

history of mankind and continue to play today. Young people are the

lifeblood of every nation. They are the brick and mortar of every

society. They are the future of every society.



The sustenance or defeat, reproduction or creation of any social

organisation depends on the political and social moulding of the

youth. Even the most backward and retrogressive regimes relied on

young people. For instance, Hitler relied on young people to build a

Nazi state, whose orientation was murder and genocide in pursuance

of a “purified” Germany. The progressive forces, including the

Bolsheviks and so on, relied on the important role of young people

in the defeat of the Tsarist regime and construction of a new state.



Here at home, the colonial and apartheid regimes introduced

compulsory military training for white youth to defend the apartheid

system. They invested a great deal in the education of white youth

to reproduce the intellectual capital necessary for the sustenance

of the apartheid system.



On the other hand, the youth under the leadership of the ANC

mobilised themselves for a noble goal – the emancipation of our

people. Consequently, young people swelled the ranks of the ANC

Youth League over successive generations; young people swelled the

ranks of MK; they swarmed our streets in acts of defiance and

militancy, coming face to face with apartheid killer machine.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 35 OF 175



If anything, it will be correct to say that the most defining

feature of the South African society at that time was the battle

between the white youth, who sought to perpetuate the demon of

apartheid and the black youth, who sought to liberate our country

and its people - both black and white.



We are here today because we honour these youth, without whom there

would be no freedom and democracy to talk about. It is these youth

who, as we celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Freedom Charter

this month, went out on volunteer work, going from house to house to

solicit freedom demands. It is these youth that took it upon

themselves to ensure that the kind of society that our people yearn

for is realised.



It will always be a concern to all social forces what political

posture the youth assumes and they will always seek to influence

them in a particular direction to reinforce and mature the existing

paradigm or to obliterate it.



The dialectic about the important role of the youth in the

sociopolitical life proceeded and continues to proceed side by side

with an attempt to paralyse them into inaction, in an instance where

they do not subscribe to the agenda of those who are threatened by

their continued participation in sociopolitical life.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 36 OF 175

This has been a prevailing feature, both during apartheid and since

1994. Before the unbanning of political organisations, those who

were threatened with the continued mobilisation of the youth used to

refer to these young people as the “lost generation”. This reference

was repeated every day by the media to drive home the message that

the things that the youth were doing to fight against apartheid

could only be done by a generation that was lost. Young people at

the time refused to be lost and asserted that they would always be

found in the trenches in the fight for freedom and democracy. They

said, we would rather be lost to the forces of oppression and

apartheid than to remain found and oppressed. They said we will

always remain the sons and daughters of Luthuli, of Lembede, of

Mandela, of Mxolisi Majimbosi. They rebelled and called themselves

the young lions of O R Tambo who would render the apartheid

government unworkable and South Africa ungovernable.



Post-1994, these forces of youth depoliticisation have not tired in

their agenda. They attempt to sow in our minds that our democracy

has failed them as the youth. They attempt to sow a sense of

disillusionment and thus refer to us as apathetic. Thus, we are just

this amorphous mob of malcontents, who have no interest in our

future or that of our country; we are people who miss the good old

days of apartheid. We disagree!



If anything, those of us who are involved on a daily basis as youth

activists know of the ANC Youth League, which has become a home for
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 37 OF 175

young South Africans, both black and white. If anything, it is the

opposition parties that are bleeding, that are strange to the youth.

They are unknown and young people have no hope and confidence in

them. They know that it is only the ANC that represents both their

short and long-term interests. They know that they cannot define

their future outside that of the ANC.



Yesterday we welcomed seven of the nine senior leaders of the DA

youth - the national chairperson and the secretary, as well as other

members of the national executive committee. [Applause.] Just watch

this space, we are going to finish it off, and the DA will be the

next! [Applause.]



The response of the DA to these developments has not been

unexpected. They have described these young people as incompetent

and so on. Was it surprising that they responded in that manner? No,

it wasn‟t. All black people who leave the DA are labelled as such -

incompetent and insane. In other words, blacks in the DA are either

incompetent or insane or both. [Laughter.] We only have to wait

until they leave the party, as a result of the heavy weight of

racism under which they are suffocating, for us to know about their

abilities and state of mind. In any event, this is part of that

party‟s perception of black people in general. It is not surprising.



During the state of the nation address, hon Mulder drew our

attention to the views that the ANC Youth League has expressed about
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 38 OF 175

the notion that black youth and people in general are incapable of

being racist. I think that it is important that we are able to speak

about that as well. The point is, how do these young people, who are

unemployed, with no economic means, have the ability to decide who

gets what kind of education, what kind of a job and gets paid how

much as a salary? How are these people who are marginalised able to

decide who accesses this or the other opportunity?



For me, for as long as patterns of economic ownership are still

skewed in favour of our white compatriots, practices of racism would

always be one way and blacks will always be the victims. To this

end, economic transformation is fundamental to realising the vision

of a nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous society.



In the last 11 years, we have made tremendous strides with regard to

youth development. We have created institutional mechanisms through

the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission to

respond to the challenges of youth development.



In fact, a review of government youth development programmes

suggests that there has been progressively greater commitment to

youth development in government departments since 1994. As

government, we have made strides in ensuring that we invest in

skills, learnerships, the Expanded Public Works Programme and so on.

Having achieved all of these and more, the challenge that faces us

as young people is the issue of youth economic participation. In
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 39 OF 175

this regard, young people yearn for economic empowerment that can be

broadly defined as an integrated and coherent socio-economic process

that directly and deliberately integrates youth into the mainstream

South African economy in a manner that creates sustainable

livelihoods for them through programmes that increase their income,

asset and skills opportunities, and increase the numbers of young

people that manage, own and control productive enterprises,

including co-operative enterprises.



According to Census 2001, young people constitute 73,8% of the

unemployed, whatever definition one uses. Given this reality, the

extent to which progress in reducing unemployment will be determined

by the extent to which we are able to reduce the number of young

people who are unemployed.



Complicating this scenario is the fact that of the graduates who

come out of our tertiary institutions, more than 70% of black

graduates do not get absorbed into the labour market whilst only 3%

of white graduates do not get absorbed. So, the issue of race is

still a factor in terms of absorption of young people in the labour

market.



The issue of increased youth employment is a matter that we will

have to deal with vigorously and the private sector has an important

role to play in this regard. We call on the private sector to
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 40 OF 175

implement the learnerships programme to deal with the skills

deficiencies resident in our youth.



It is important that at the end of the learnerships, these young

people are absorbed and those that are not absorbed should be

accommodated through entrepreneurship support. We call on the big

companies to ensure that their procurement should benefit youth co-

operatives and enterprises. This will lead to economic growth and

increased employment.



We call on BEE charter councils to accommodate youth representation

and ensure that the implementation of these charters address issues

of youth economic participation.



One of the important impediments for the entry of young people in

the economy is access to finance. Most of the African youth do not

have collateral to back their applications for finance.

Unfortunately, they have nothing to inherit from their parents as

collateral, except if one is lucky and one‟s father can give one an

emaciated cow, which one may either sell or use to pay for lobola.



We think that it is possible for the private sector to work out

financing models that specifically address this particular sector of

our society. And to our youth it is important to serve our people,

to go to school, study and pass and seize the opportunities brought

about by our democracy. They must know that opportunity does not
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 41 OF 175

equal a chance to get money without working for it. They must work

very hard in whatever they do and in that way the sky will not even

be the limit.



Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.



Mr M M SWATHE: Madam Speaker, hon members, South Africa needs more

investment to overcome the problem of high unemployment, especially

amongst the youth. It is unfortunate that 60% of the people between

18 and 25 are unemployed. We need labour-intensive economic growth.

For us to achieve that, we need policies that are consistent for

turning South Africa into an effective modern economy. The ANC‟s

policies are not good enough.



South Africa needs skills to work in a modern economy. The DA

believes that government should be allocating R7 billion per year to

education and skills development. One third of the budget should be

directed into opportunity vouchers to allow people to start their

own businesses and get the training they need. This DA proposal

would empower young people by giving them choices.



The principle of demand and supply should be looked at if we are

serious about making South Africa a working nation, and therefore if

more young people were skilled, they would be absorbed into the

labour market.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 42 OF 175

Tax incentives needs to be introduced to encourage business to

employ more labour. For at least five years, businesses should be

entitled to deduct 150% of the first R2 000 per month of the

employees‟ salaries for tax purposes. Individual households should

be entitled to deduct up to R2 000 per month for the taxable income

for permanent regular employment provided by them. This could be

especially helpful in providing jobs and experience and gathering

opportunities for less-educated people, particularly the youth in

our society.



The introduction of increased labour-market flexibility will help

new business to employ more labour. Exemptions from minimum wage and

employment regulations for the first five years of the existence of

individual small business will ensure greater success and more jobs.

The CCMA and Labour Court structures should be enhanced and

streamlined to limit the costs they impose on small business.



The DA is not calling for the removal of fundamental labour rights

as they affect the trade unions and workers. However, the current

set of labour laws has tilted the balance unduly in favour of those

already in employment and neglected the unemployed. The laws we have

continued to have a major impact on business, small business in

particular, and needs to be changed.



Go ya ka DA, mmušo o swanetše go šomiša R12.6 billion mengwageng ye

mehlano go fediša tšhalelo-morago ya dišomišwa le mehlodi ya go ruta
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 43 OF 175

dikolong; go hloma lenaneo la bosetšhaba leo le lebantšego nepo ya

go ruta bana; go fa barutwana ba 350 000 lenaneo la thušo dithutong

tša bona, bao batswadi ba bona ba ihlokelago monyetla ya thuto ye

kaone.



Re rata go tseba ka ga tšhelete ya sekhwama sa baswa ya Umsovombovu

Youth Fund gore e thušitše baswa ba bakae go hwetša mešomo. Baswa

bao ke ba kae? Naa ke dikgwebo dife tšeo di hweditšego thušo ya

mašeleng? Ke dikgwebo tše kae magaeng tša baswa tšeo di holegilego

lenaneong leo?



Re rata go kwa ka ga South African Youth Commission gore yona e šoma

bjang ka mašeleng a setšhaba. E ka ba ba hlotse mešomo ye mekae ya

go hola baswa? Ge e le gore ba hlotše mešomo, ke ka lebaka la eng go

be go le ditšhupetšo ka la 9 June 2005 mabapi le sello sa mešomo go

la Polokwane Profensing ya Limpopo? Go ya ka pego ya bona ya baswa,

ba laetša ka fao ba sepetšego maeto go ya mafaseng a ntle, go swana

le boBelgium, Bahrain, Mali le Mexico. Naa maeto ao a thušitše go

hlola mešomo ye mekae go baswa ba Afrika-Borwa? Go itaetša mešomo e

fiwa baswa ba bona.



Youth Commission e swanetše go laetša bohlokwa bja yona, goba e

phatlalale. Ka nako ya dipego ngwageng wo tlago, e swanetše go

laetša mešomo yeo e e hlotšego le tlhatlho yeo e e tšweleditšego go

thuša baswa. Dingwalwa tša bona le tshepedišo di laetša mošomo wo
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 44 OF 175

mobotse dipampiring. Efela ke mešomo yeo e nyakegago, ya go

bonagala.



Afrika Borwa ke naga ya go se dumele therešo. Re na le baswa ba

bantši ba go hloka mošomo, efela Moporesidente ga a dumele gore

bohlokatiro ke bjo bontši mo nageng. Go ya ka Statistics South

Africa, bohlokatiro ke tlhobaboroko. Afrika Borwa e ka šoma gabotse

ge e ka dumela go fiwa maele, ya kopanya ditsebi tša yona, ya

lebelela dikgopolo tšeo di kago tliša tharollo, ya tlogela go

lebelela dipolitiki, bong le bosemorafe. China e šoma botse ka ge e

dumela gore batho ba naga ya bona, ba a fapana ka dikgopolo le gona

kgwebo ke lehumo gomme ba a e thekga.



Re rata go tseba ka ga tšhelete yeo e filwego Mokgatlo wa Cosatu

magareng ga ngwaga wa 1997 le 1998 ya bašomi le beng-mešomo ya

letšatši le tee, yeo e bego e beetšwe go hloma mešomo. Naa tšhelete

yeo e kae? Ke bokae? E tlile go šoma neng? Bjang? Ke ka lebaka la

eng e se ya šoma?



Ke a leboga, Modulasetulo. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Pedi paragraphs

follows.)



[According to the DA, the government is supposed to use

R12,6 billion in five years to clear the backlog in resources and

educational aids that are used in schools, to launch a public

programme that is focused on appropriate ways to teach the children,
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 45 OF 175

and to offer education to the 350 000 learners whose parents are

unable to afford it.



We would like to know how many youths have benefited from the

Umsobomvu Youth Fund to get jobs. How many are they? Which

businesses managed to get a start-up fund? How many businesses in

the rural areas owned by the youth benefited from that programme?



We would like to hear about the South African Youth Commission and

how they used the people‟s money. How many jobs have they created to

help the youth? If they did create jobs, why were there

demonstrations at Polokwane in Limpopo on 9 June 2005 with regard to

unemployment? According to the youth report, it is shown how they

have travelled abroad to places like Belgium, Bahrain, Mali and

Mexico. How many jobs have those trips helped to create for the

South African youth? It looks like the jobs are given to their own

youth.



The Youth Commission must show its value or dismantle. They must

show how many jobs they have created as well as the kind of training

offered to the youth in next year‟s reports. Their documents and

processes look good on paper. It is the practical work that is

important, though.



South Africa is a country that does not really believe in the truth.

We have plenty of youth without jobs, but the President refuses to
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 46 OF 175

believe that there is a high level of unemployment in this country.

According to Statistics South Africa, unemployment is a nightmare.

It would be much better if South Africa would accept advice and,

together with the experts, look into opinions that would yield

better solutions, and stop looking into politics, gender equality

and racism. China is doing well because they have accepted that

their people have different opinions and that business is wealth,

and they support it.



We would like to know about the money that was given to Cosatu

around 1997 and 1998 for employees and employers for one day, money

that was put aside for job creation. Where is the money? How much is

it? When will it be used? How? Why has it not been used yet?



Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]



Mr B W DHLAMINI: Hon Chairperson and colleagues, 16 June 1976 has

gone down in history as the date that changed the face of liberation

politics in South Africa for good. It put young people in the

forefront of the struggle for liberation in a manner that had not

been seen before in this country.



The participation of black youth in the struggle for liberation was

heightened to unprecedented levels. The repressive state, on the

other hand, stepped up its conscription of white youth to join the

SA Defence Force to alarming proportions. Apartheid thus succeeded
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 47 OF 175

in polarising blacks against whites, using the notion of the so-

called “swartgevaar”. Thus the foundation of what later crystallised

into a total onslaught strategy had been firmly laid.



The rest of what the black youth did in the struggle for liberation

from 1976 onwards is now history. It will suffice to say that scores

of young people skipped the country to join the then-banned

liberation movements. Others remained within the country to join the

underground forces, and many more remained within the country to

pursue the struggle in various ways above board.



Young people became the very hallmark of the struggle to liberate

and democratise this country. They shared their sweat, tears and

blood in the quest to see their country free. Our youth in South

Africa today are free and privileged in that they are allowed to

feel as if anything is possible and that there are absolutely no

limitations or boundaries to what they can achieve or do.



Their imaginations can run wild and they are not inhibited by the

restrictions and boundaries that apartheid set for the youth in the

past. When you are young, you are full of creativity and boundless

energy. The fact that today‟s youth are not limited in their career

choices, because of their race or gender, has been made possible the

sacrifices that so many young people in the past had to make.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 48 OF 175

Along with the many atrocities that apartheid committed, it also

robbed many children of their youth and forced them to grow up too

quickly. It is therefore important that Youth Day is seen as more

than just a day off or a holiday. The sacrifices that were made, the

many lives that were lost and the many challenges and obstacles that

the youth had to overcome should be remembered and appreciated,

especially on 16 June.



Although the prospects that our youth have today are infinitely

brighter than they were in the past, they still face many obstacles

and challenges, including poverty, HIV/Aids and unemployment. If we

do not find ways of meeting these challenges soon, we will be faced

with added social problems that will only get worse and escalate in

future.



These are not issues that can be swept under the rug, they have to

be dealt with and solutions have to be found. We need to create more

opportunities for young people.



If we are to make inroads into the creation of employment for our

youth, we need to be more creative and come up with innovative

initiatives that will harness their enthusiasm and creativity. These

will ultimately lead to job creation and poverty reduction. These

initiatives should not be created in isolation and independent of

the very people they are aimed at. The youth should play an active
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 49 OF 175

and leading role in the development and the implementation of these

initiatives.



There are institutions and organisations that provide support and

assistance to the South African youth, such as Umsobomvu and the

Youth Commission, but whether they have the capacity to deal with

this great challenge and to succeed in making a substantial impact

is debatable. These organisations also need to broaden their range

and visibility so that they are accessible to a much wider audience

and not a selected few. If they are to have any chance of impacting

on the creation of employment amongst the youth, we must face head-

on the various challenges of poverty and deprivation in which many

of them live.



The best tribute we can give to our youth and those who laid down

their lives in the struggle is to ensure that never again will our

society produce the circumstances under which those young people had

to grow up. Never again should we allow our society to decline to

such a level that it would be necessary for any young person to have

to lay down his or her live for freedom in our country. I thank you.



Ms N M MDAKA: Chairperson and hon members, surveys on unemployment

indicate that 60% or more of the unemployed are in the age group

that is younger than 35. This is of great concern. The success of

our society and, indeed, of our democracy depend on the youth. A

generation without jobs is a generation losing faith and hope and
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 50 OF 175

that could spell disaster. When a significant proportion of the next

generation does not believe that the current system can realise

their hopes and aspirations, it is in such circumstances that

discontent and revolt flourish.



However, whilst many of us are gravely concerned about the dangers

of massive unemployment and how it affects the youth, the old

political trick of questioning the statistics has resurfaced. Both

President Mbeki and Minister Manuel have, in the past few months,

expressed scepticism about the unemployment statistics.



We cannot help but notice that this sort of questioning of the

statistics was a prominent aspect of the denials and delays that

characterised government‟s response to HIV/Aids for many years. Let

us not fall into this trap again and waste valuable time and

resources on futile bickering about statistics. The problem is

massive and deserves our unambiguous and united response.



It is doubly ironic that senior members of the ruling party are now

questioning the extent of unemployment. The last time we looked, the

ANC was elected to government with a manifesto built on the promise

of a million new jobs. Why make these promises if unemployment is

not a major crisis?



Or is the question rather whether this election . . .
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 51 OF 175

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N P Nhleko): Order!



Ms N M MDAKA: Thank you.



Ukuba bangavuka aba bantwana babe fe ngo-‟76, banganibetha

nonk‟apha. [Uwele-wele.] [If all those children who died in 1976

could wake up, they would beat all of you.] [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N P Nhleko): Order! Order!

[Interjections.] Order, hon member! [Applause.]



Mr L W GREYLING: Thank you, Chair. The title of the speech today

sounds like a call to action. The ID has taken up this call, and in

May of this year we launched the YID initiative in terms of which we

have given the youth a platform to fight for the issues affecting

them.



The new struggle in South Africa is to give our youth hope and

opportunities for the future. My interactions with young South

Africans have convinced me that it is they who are truly

transforming our country.



I have seen unbelievable talent in many different spheres, and I

have witnessed children overcoming the most horrendous situations to

become leaders in our society. Of particular note is the My Life

Project, in which former homeless children are now living productive
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 52 OF 175

lives and creating waves in the music scene. It is up to us as

government, though, to create the structures and support systems to

allow the creativity and the new ideas of the youth to flourish.



Today I turned 32 years old, which means that I will soon no longer

be able to call myself a member of the youth, something I‟m

beginning to deeply regret. I therefore felt it necessary to allow

the younger members of our party to speak on this important debate.

The chairperson of YID in KwaZulu-Natal, Simo Dladla, expressed

these powerful sentiments:



 Hon members, we are a country that is 11 years old. Our

 disadvantaged youth of the 1970s are the advantaged ones, and it

 just shows what freedom is. They are the members of national

 Parliament, provincial parliament, CEOs, millionaires and

 billionaires.



 If we are preaching the gospel of the previously disadvantaged

 youth, which has become the national anthem of this country, who

 are we talking about? Aren‟t we supposed to be the advantaged

 ones? Aren‟t we supposed to be benefiting from the freedom our

 fathers fought for? Aren‟t we supposed to be enjoying the fruits

 of the country?
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 53 OF 175

These are the words that should be guiding us when we consider

whether we are truly living up to the aspirations of the youth in

our country.



Lastly, with the Speaker‟s indulgence, being my birthday and all, I

want to relay some other powerful words of the youth, this time

taken from the My Life CD. These former homeless children had this

to say:



  We want you to know we don‟t feel self-pity, there are some points

  in our life that have been real pretty!

  We don‟t see ourselves as victims

  We‟re stronger – it‟s true, man

  We ask you to do the same - see us as human

  We‟re not asking you for something else from your handbook

  What we are really asking you is to try and understand

  that you can help, assist, encourage and support us

  But your assistance stops there – you can never do it for us

  It‟s impossible to keep away the pain, suffering and strife

  Just let us walk through it

  It‟s My Life!



I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N P Nhleko): Happy birthday, hon member.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 54 OF 175

Ms P BHENGU: Chairperson, hon members of Parliament, the youth of

South Africa, ladies and gentlemen, my speech is to remind you of

the history of June 16 and the challenges facing the youth of South

Africa.



In 1953 the apartheid government enacted the Bantu Education Act,

which established a black education department in the Department of

Native Affairs. The role of this department was to compile a

curriculum that suited the nature and requirements of the black

people.



Therefore, the author of the legislation, Dr Hendrik Verwoerd, the

then Minister of Native Affairs, stated clearly that the natives –

blacks - must be taught at an early age that equality with the

Europeans – whites - was not for them. Therefore the black people

were not to receive an education that would lead them to aspire to

positions they would not be allowed to hold in society. Instead they

were to receive education designed to provide them with skills to

serve their own people in the homelands, or to work in labouring

jobs under the white minority.



Bantu education did enable more children in Soweto to attend school

than the old missionary system of education, but there was a severe

lack of facilities. Nationally, the pupil-to-teacher ratios went up

from 46:1 to 58:1 in 1967. Overcrowded classrooms were used on a

rota basis. There was also a lack of teachers, and many of those who
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 55 OF 175

did teach were underqualified. By 1961 only 10% of black teachers

held a matriculation certificate. Because of government‟s homelands

policy, no high schools were built in Soweto between 1962 and 1971.

Students were meant to move to their relevant homelands to attend

the newly built schools there.



In 1974 the government gave in to pressure from business to improve

the Bantu education system to meet business‟s needs for a better-

trained black workforce. Forty new schools were built in Soweto.

This increased the number of pupils at secondary schools from 12 656

to 34 656. One in five Soweto children attended secondary school.



This increase in secondary-school attendance had a significant

effect on youth culture. Previously, many young people spent their

time between leaving primary school and obtaining a job - if they

were lucky - in gangs, which generally lacked any political

consciousness. But now secondary-school students were forming their

own much more politicised identity. Clashes between the gangs and

students furthered the sense of student solidarity.



In 1975 South Africa entered a period of economic depression.

Schools were starved of funds – the government spent R644 a year on

a white child, but only R42 on a black child. The Department of

Education then announced that it was removing Standard 6 from

primary schools. Previously, in order to progress to Form 1 of

secondary school, a learner had to obtain a first or second-degree
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 56 OF 175

pass in Standard 6. In 1976, 257 505 pupils enrolled in Form 1, but

there was space for only 38 000. Many of the students therefore

remained in primary school.



Yaqala-ke inkathazo. Inhlangano yabafundi yabamnyama, i-African

Student Movement, eyayibunjwe ngo-1968 ukuba izwakalise izwi

labafundi nezinhlupheko ababebhekene nazo, yabe isishintsha igama

layo-ke ngenyanga kaMasingana ngonyaka ka-1972 yaba yiNhlangano

yabaFundi baseNingizimu Afrika (SA Student Movement). Inhloso kwabe

kungukwakha inhlangano yabafundi kazwelonke ukuze isebenzisane

nenhlangano ye-black consciousness, inhlangano eyabe ikhona

emanyuvesi yabamnyama ne-SA Student Organisation, Saso. (Translation

of Zulu paragraph follows.)



[And then the trouble began. The organisation for black students,

the African Student Movement, that had been formed in 1968 to air

the students‟ concerns and the plight that they were facing, changed

its name in January 1972 and became known as the SA Student

Movement. The intention was to build a national student movement

that was to work with the organisation of black consciousness, which

was the dominating movement at the universities, and the SA Student

Organisation, Saso.]



This link with black consciousness philosophy was significant

because it gave students an appreciation of themselves as black

people and it helped politicise students. So when the Department of
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 57 OF 175

Bantu Education issued its decree that Afrikaans was to become the

language of instruction at school, it was at a time when the

situation was already volatile. Students objected to being taught in

the language of the oppressor. Many teachers themselves could not

speak Afrikaans, but were now required to teach their subjects in

it.



Therefore the tide began to turn as students in Soweto came together

in 1976. This shook the state power to its roots and its foundations

began to crack. When high-school students in Soweto started

protesting for better education on 16 June 1976, the police of the

apartheid government responded with tear gas and live bullets. Many

young people lost their lives. So, hon members and young people of

South Africa, we are commemorating today – honouring today - all the

young people who lost their lives in the struggle against apartheid

and Bantu education.



There are challenges facing the youth of today. The commencement of

our democracy in 1994 had its challenges of economic reconstruction

and job creation. The issue of unemployment is crucial, but the ANC-

led government has established Setas, and the National Skills

Development Strategy. Workshops have been conducted with

stakeholders to develop strategic plans around learnership

implementation, funding, marketing and communication; and there has

been group training for SMMEs, as well as employment service

functions, such as the recruitment and placement of learners.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 58 OF 175

The Further Education and Training Colleges - FETs - have been

established to oversee the integrity of assessment in schools and

colleges, and offer academic curricula as well as a range of

vocational subjects to cater for out-of-school youth and adults.

This has played an important role for the youth, especially those in

rural areas. The other challenge facing the youth is the abuse of

drugs and other substances, such as alcohol.



The issue of HIV/Aids has been a challenge. The Department of

Education has a five-year plan focusing on limiting the spread of

HIV/Aids through life-skills education, providing social support to

educators and learners who are affected, and managing the impact of

HIV/Aids on the education system within the curriculum.



The youth are now engaged in various programmes, such as home-based

and community-based care programmes as community development

workers, in the women and children against violence and abuse

programme, and in the victim empowerment project that provides

trauma support and counselling services for the victims of violence

and crime, focusing on empowering community workers and

professionals with skills and knowledge for the effective delivery

of services to such victims.



Therefore today the story of South Africa after 10 years of

democracy is a happy and successful one, that is, if you consider

where we came from and where South Africa could have ended up.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 59 OF 175

However, there are some dark clouds hovering over our nation that

seem to threaten and undermine the successes and happiness achieved

by our new democracy.



We have seen the youth being used by people who do not like the way

our government is transforming from the apartheid era, in

demonstrations on the lack of service delivery. We, as the ANC-led

government, will no longer tolerate those young people who have

forgotten where we come from.



Sengiphetha, ngithanda ukweluleka abantu abasha ukuba

bazimbandakanye nezinhla zomphathi, futhi bazimisele ukuze sivikele

leli zwe kubantu abanomona futhi abangathandi ukulibona liba

nezinguquko. Sisonke asilwe nobubha nenhlupheko. Ngiyabonga.

[Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)



[In conclusion, I would like to advise the youth to take part in

community capacity building and to be prepared so that we can defend

this country from jealous people who do not want transformation. Let

us all fight poverty and destitution. I thank you. [Applause.]]



Adv Z L MADASA: Chairman, creating youth employment and fighting

poverty is a good thing and I believe this is happening already. The

critical thing that we must, as adults, talk about today concerning

the youth is how to encourage discipline. If you take a look at the

quality of past youth leadership since the 1944s, 1960s, 1970s,
14 JUNE 2005                                    PAGE: 60 OF 175

1980s and early 1990s, there is no comparison with the current youth

leadership. If you look back, you will notice that the past youth

leadership was knowledgeable, articulate and disciplined. Today‟s

youth leadership is a far cry from that of the past.



Historically, the youth filled the gap left by absent leadership and

addressed national political issues. With competent leaders now

available, post-1994, is there a need for the parallel and duplicate

role the youth leadership is playing today? Beyond employment, the

youth is confronted with the following challenges: the culture of

overentertainment, the culture of not learning, unaffordable school

fees, academic and financial exclusions, violence, drugs on campuses

and, yes, unemployment as well. These are the current challenges to

the youth.



Instead of addressing these challenges, which are pressing, we see

the current youth leadership holding frequent press conferences on

how to lower Reserve Bank rates, embroiled in political power

struggles and vacuously criticising judges without looking at the

judgments. When they appear in press conferences, you have to hold

your breath. What we should debate is: What is the proper role of

political formations after 10 years, post-1994? I believe that that

should be the debate. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mnr W D SPIES: Agb   Voorsitter, wanneer jongmense om werk aansoek doen,

doen hulle aansoek op die onderste posvlakke. Dit is die vlakke van
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 61 OF 175

ongeskoolde, semigeskoolde en pasgekwalifiseerde werkers. Byna 90%

van alle werksgeleenthede in die land is op hierdie drie vlakke en

twee derdes daarvan is op die vlakke van ongeskoolde en

semigeskoolde werkers. Volgens die jongste verslag van die Kommissie

vir Gelyke Indiensneming kom slegs 9,8% van die werkers op die

onderste twee posvlakke vanuit die sogenaamde wit groepe. Dit is ‟n

onderverteenwoordiging van witmense op die intreevlak van meer as

22%. Die afname van witmense in die onderste twee posvlakke was meer

as 86% die afgelope jaar en dit verklaar ook die drastiese styging

in armoede onder veral witmense sedert 1990. (Translation of

Afrikaans paragraph follows.)



[Mr W D SPIES: Hon Chairperson, when young people apply for

jobs,then they apply at the lowest post levels. These are the levels

of unskilled, semi-skilled and newly qualified workers. Almost 90%

of all job opportunities in the country are on these three levels

and two thirds thereof are on the levels of unskilled and semi-

skilled workers. According to the latest report of the Commission

for Employment Equity only 9,8% of the workers on the two lowest

post levels are from the so-called white groups. This is an

underrepresentation of whites at entry level of more than 22%. The

decrease in whites at the two lowest post levels was more than 86%

for the past year and this also explains the drastic increase in

poverty, especially among whites, since 1990.]
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 62 OF 175

To these young people, the concept of employment equity becomes a

contradiction in terms, because they experience no equity when they

apply for a job and not even the official government funds are

mandated to assist these people.



Vroeër vanjaar het die hoof van Umsobomvu Jeugfonds, mnr Malusi

Kekana, voor die portefeuljekomitee gesê ingevolge sy mandaat is die

fonds tans net ingestel op die swart jeug. Wanneer daar na

indiensnemingsyfers gekyk word, word daar slegs klem gelê op die

boonste 10% van die arbeidsmag. Dit is nie waar jongmense vir werk

aansoek doen nie. Jongmense begin by die intreevlakke. As hulle nie

op die intreevlakke gehelp word nie, verval hulle in ‟n spiraal van

armoede of werkloosheid of word net nog ‟n statistiek van die

diaspora uit Afrika.



Vanjaar word Jeugdag vir die 11de keer in Suid-Afrika herdenk, maar

elke jaar word meer en meer jong, witmense ontnugter met die wrede

werklikhede van sogenaamde “employment equity”. Hierdie mense ken

nie apartheid nie, maar hulle word toenemend daarmee gekonfronteer

en daarvoor gestraf. Daarom begin die VF Plus vanjaar met ‟n veldtog

om gelykheid vir alle jongmense te kry. Die bestuur van die VF Plus-

Jeug gaan op 16 Junie van Pretoria af na die Konstitutionele Hof in

Johannesburg stap met ‟n versoek om gelykheid vir almal. Ons sien u

daar. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 63 OF 175

[The Chairperson of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, Mr Malusi Kekana, has

stated earlier this year before the portfolio committee that in

terms of his mandate the fund is currently only focused on the black

youth. When we look at employment figures we see that the emphasis

is placed on the top 10% of the workforce. This is not where young

people apply for jobs. Young people start at the entry levels. If

they are not assisted at the entry levels they will fall into a

spiral of poverty or unemployment or they will become just another

statistic of the diaspora from Africa.



This year Youth Day will be celebrated for the 11th time in South

Africa, but every year more and more young whites are disillusioned

by the grim realities of so-called employment equity. These people

do not know apartheid, but they are increasingly being confronted

with it and punished for it. Hence, this year the FF Plus is

commencing with a campaign to acquire equity for all young people.

On June 16 the management of the FF Plus Youth will march from

Pretoria to the Constitutional Court in Johannesburg with a request

for equity for all. We will see you there. Thank you very much.]



Mr B E PULE: Chair, it is unfortunate that we, as government, talk

about the plight of our youth but do nothing concrete to make sure

that they earn a living en route to their responsible adulthood.

Taking refuge in the past and embellishing commonplace events with

an aura they do not deserve will not assist us at this juncture.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 64 OF 175

Youth is our future nation and unless government stops paying lip

service to employment, they will definitely be a national calamity.

There are many young people roaming the streets without jobs, some

of whom are university graduates. The President had indicated in his

state of the nation address, in 2004, that a register would be

compiled but we have heard nothing about it thus far.



Some many young people have just been given parole last week and

unless we, as government, create employment for this youth the devil

will definitely find work for their idle hands. Skills development

has been a household word for every department and we have to

empower our youth with entrepreneurial skills so that they also help

create employment for themselves, because it will be equally

dangerous to create a dependency syndrome amongst our youth. Thank

you, Chair.



Mnr J J COMBRINCK: Agb Voorsitter, agb lede, kamerade en vriende, op

16 Junie 1976 het die jeug van ons land hul stem dik gemaak teen die

bestel van daardie tyd. Die viering van Jeugdag dien nie net as

herinnering aan die historiese wending nie, maar laat ons veral hoop

op ‟n nuwe toekoms vir die jeug van Suid-Afrika. Ons sien veral

daarna uit om ‟n dag te kan beleef wat goeie onderwys vir almal sal

verseker en nie net vir ‟n uitgesoekte groepie wit en swart ouers

wat dit kan bekostig om hulle kinders in privaatskole te sit nie.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 65 OF 175

Ons doen ‟n beroep op die jeug van Suid-Afrika om van hulle te laat

hoor en hulle regte as volwaardige burgers van die land op te eis.

Die tyd van “kinders moet gesien word en nie gehoor word nie” is

verby. Dit is jou reg om jou eie taal te gebruik en te ontwikkel,

terwyl jy ander tale leer en bemeester. Wanneer ons aan ‟n nie-

rassige Suid-Afrika dink, kan ons nie aangaan sonder om terug te

dink aan mense soos oom Beyers Naudé nie. Die grootste motivering

agter sy politieke loopbaan in ‟n kritieke tyd staar ook Suid-Afrika

in hierdie tweede dekade van demokrasie in die gesig, en betrek die

vraag van hoe om die reg tot kulturele, etniese en rasse-identiteit,

waarvan dié van minderheidsgroepe nie die minste is nie, te

bevestig. Hoe kan ons die energieke deelname van alle Suid-

Afrikaners bevorder sonder om van enige groep te verwag om hulle

kulturele wortels te negeer of te onderspeel? Hoe kan ons ‟n

waarlike veelvoudige Suid-Afrikaanse samelewing vier?



Die oorgrote meerderheid van noemenswaardige konflikte wat tans in

die wêreld voorkom, is tussen gemeenskappe binne nasionale state,

eerder as tussen nasionale state self. Die meeste van hierdie

konflikte is minstens gedeeltelik gewortel in die mislukking van

etniese, kulturele en godsdienstige gemeenskappe om vreedsaam naas

mekaar te bestaan. Terselfdertyd is dit belangrik om te erken dat

etniese, kulturele en godsdienstige konflik feitlik sonder

uitsondering vervleg is met die een of ander vorm van materiële

onthouding en/of politieke uitsluiting.
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 66 OF 175

Dit is in wese wanneer individue en groepe ‟n sin van uitsluiting

van hierdie staatshuishouding en van sy materiële voordele ervaar,

wat hulle steun op identiteitsbelange om hulle politieke en

materiële agendas aan te dryf. Daar is ‟n groeiende globale

bewustheid dat nasies - en veral nasies in oorgang van

onderdrukkende regerings en volgehoue geweld - wat in gebreke bly om

hierdie bedreiging om groepe uitgesluit te hou uit nasiebouprosesse,

aan te spreek. Dit is tot hul eie nadeel.



Die balans wat hier nodig is, is delikaat, om die skepping van ‟n

gedeelde en inklusiewe kultuur uit te stel en om weerstandsgroepe

toe te laat om die ou orde voort te sit. Om daarenteen te vinnig

vorentoe te beweeg, is om wrewel en potensiële destabilisering te

bevorder.



Die vraag na hoe om ‟n inklusiewe staat te bou onder omstandighede

van diepe historiese kulturele, godsdienstige en materiële

verdeeldheid, bied ‟n politieke uitdaging aan ontluikende

demokrasieë waarop die akademie, die politici en alle redelike

burgers verstandig sal wees om te let.



Tien jaar later is daar aanduiding dat hierdie eenheid toenemend van

balans gegooi en selfs uitgedaag word deur ‟n groeiende sin van

partikuralisme. Die Khoisan se herkoms word gevier. Daar is

groeiende trots onder diegene wat hul identiteit herlei na die

aankoms van slawe in die sestiende eeu. Afrikaners eis hulle plek op
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 67 OF 175

as ‟n stam van Afrika. Suid-Afrikaanse Indiërs bevestig hul

kulturele afkoms en Moslemvroue word toenemend in die openbaar met

swart sluiers gesien. Algemeen gesproke lyk dit of dit nog slegs

Suid-Afrikaanse Engelse is wat probeer om hulle voorvaderlike afkoms

anderkant die een of ander soort taalglobale oorheersing te soek.

Die meerderheid van swart Afrikane is geensins meer eenvormig as

enige ander groep nie en tog, miskien weens ‟n nuwe sin van

oorheersing, staan hulle grootliks onverskillig teenoor die

soektogte en twiste wat die identiteitstryde van minderheidsgroepe

kenmerk.



Dit is hier waar enkele van die verskillende nasies begin om

deurmekaar te woon en te beweeg. Hulle weier om te vlug na die

ghetto van wit of swart eksklusiwiteit. Dit bied ‟n uitgang wat geen

Suid-Afrikaner, wit of swart, kan bekostig om te ignoreer nie. Hulle

oorstyg stamchauvinisme en uit hoofde van hul sterk

Afrikaanidentiteit daag hulle verskillende blinde begrippe van

liberale inklusiwiteit uit. Hulle kerm nie. Hulle vra geen spesiale

guns nie. Hulle kla nie oor ‟n behoefte aan wit/swart voorregte of

minderheidsregte nie. Hulle eis hul regte op om ‟n Suid-Afrikaan in

‟n nierassige demokratiese Suid-Afrika te wees. Miskien is hulle in

staat om dit te doen vanweë hul geworteldheid in hul eie

Afrikaanidentiteit, sonder om aan te neem dat die eie belangriker is

as die ander. Die inklusiewe Suid-Afrikaanse visie wat sowel

uitnodiging as uitdaging inkorporeer, is om ras, kultuur en

voormalige identiteit te oorstyg, sowel as klasverskille.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 68 OF 175

Gesondheidstatus, die onmiddelike maatskaplike behoeftes en die

uitdaging betrek die implikasies daarvan om te leef in die land wat

steeds deur die ongeregtighede van die verlede geteister word.

Uitnodiging en uitdaging is keerkante van dieselfde munt, wat ‟n

bevestiging is van die inherente skakel tussen versoening,

maatskaplike insluiting en ekonomiese ontwikkeling. Tog eenvoudig

dat versoening en insluiting nie soseer te make het met huidige

werklikhede nie. Dit herinner ons daaraan dat vir versoening om te

oorleef en vir kulturele verdraagsaamheid om te gedy, moet die

materiële en die subjektiewe behoeftes as keerkante van dieselfde

muntstuk bevorder word.



Apartheid was natuurlik gebou op multikulturele verskille en die

bevordering van groepsidentiteit is voorgehou as voorwendsel vir

oorheersende boerestaatpolitiek en Zulunasionalisme. Op hul beurt

gaan hulle voort om die reg om anders te wees te bevestig om ‟n

samelewing te bou waarin verskillende kulture en etniese groepe sy

aan sy leef, in plaas daarvan om die moontlikhede om met mekaar in

omgang te tree. Dit hou duidelik sy eie stel probleme in; gegewe dat

menslike aard en politiek is wat dit is, leen die stryd om

oorheersing hom tot dié soort nasionalisme.



Dit gaan oor die oorweging van wat more mag inhou, eerder as om die

onafwendbare te probeer voorkom. Dit is om te erken dat nuwe,

komplekse identiteite in Suid-Afrika na vore begin tree. Ongelukkig
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 69 OF 175

het ons en ons voorsate sowat 40 jaar gevat om hierdie en vele ander

saamgestel in die Vryheidsmanifes te kon uitleef.



Doeltreffendheid is ons antwoord op die beperkte bronne. Soos ons

almal weet, is mynbou een van die grootste verskaffers van werk aan

alle fasette van die samelewing. Ons sal egter moet begin na ander

oplossings vir die verskaffing van werksgeleenthede kyk. Die

natuurlike kapitaal van die omgewing word meer as ooit tevore

bedreig deur die voorgestelde bevolkingsgroei en die dramatiese

toename van nywerheidsaktiwiteite.



Ons is nader as ooit aan die perke van groei in ons gebruik van

hulpbronne. Ons put op die oomblik sommige mineraalbronne en

fossielbrandstowwe nie so vinnig uit as wat gevrees is nie, maar die

impak van die gebruik daarvan op die omgewing word kritiek. Indien

nywerheidsgroei voldoende was om die armoede in die ontwikkelende

dele uit te wis, sou die verbruik van bronne toegeneem het tot bo

vlakke wat die omgewing kan volhou.



Produksie en verbruik moet daarom meer doeltreffend word en ons as

die jeug moet ‟n skuif maak na ‟n meer rasionele gebruik van

hulpbronne deur hernieubare bronne en sirkulasie van produksie en

bronne waarvan afval hergebruik word, te benut. Ons moet ook veel

meer waarde voeg by die bronne wat ons wel gebruik, deur ‟n skuif

van materiële goedere na dienste. Die jeug in hierdie land moet aan

die stuur staan om die klem te verskuif van die ontgin van
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 70 OF 175

natuurlike hulpbronne, na die bemagtiging van hul menslike kapitaal

met ‟n ander konsep van groei. Die vraag na energie kan aansienlik

verlaag word, deur ‟n meer rasionele gebruik daarvan. Dit mag egter

meer arbeidsintensief wees en moet plaaslike gemeenskappe in staat

stel om hul eie energieverbruik self te bestuur. Die voorsiening van

energie moet verskuif van steenkool na hernieubare en skoon bronne.



So ‟n skuif is moontlik met geloofwaardige, wetenskaplike

tegnologie. Wat die ontwikkelings betref wat in die vooruitsig

gestel word op hierdie gebied, moet die jeug van hierdie land besef,

is daar „ʼn groot tekort aan reg opgeleide mense om sulke verskille

te kan laat plaasvind. Nietemin is aansienlike beleggings in

navorsing steeds nodig. Inligting- en kommunikasietegnologie is

deurslaggewend vir die produksie, logistiek en verbruik en mosaïek

van die leefstyle wat omgewingsvriendelik is.



Ten einde hierdie uitdagings aan te pak, moet ons al die

bestuursmeganismes aanwend wat nodig is om raamwerke vir

ontwikkeling gereed te kry. Belastingstelsels moet die gebruik van

hulpbronne ontmoedig en ondernemingsgees en waardeskepping aanmoedig

ten einde die klem op materiële goedere te vervang met nie-materiële

dienste. ‟n Grootskaalse skuif na belasting op materiële bronne,

energie, land- en padvervoerfasiliteite is nodig. [Tyd verstreke.]

[Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 71 OF 175

[Mr J J COMBRINCK: Hon Chairperson, hon members, comrades and

friends, on 16 June 1976 the youth of our country protested against

the dispensation of that time. The celebration of Youth Day not only

serves as a reminder of this historic turn of events but also gives

us hope, especially for a new future for the youth of South Africa.

We are especially looking forward to a day when good education will

be ensured for all, and not only for a select groups of white and

black parents who can afford to send their children to private

schools.



We appeal to the youth of South Africa to make their voices heard

and to claim their rights as fully fledged citizens of the country.

The time has passed when children were to be seen and not heard. It

is one‟s right to use and develop one‟s own language, while one

masters other languages. When we think of a nonracial South Africa,

we cannot continue without thinking of people such as Beyers Naudé.

In this second decade of democracy, South Africa is also faced with

the greatest motivation behind his political career at a critical

time, and this involves the question of how to confirm the right to

cultural, ethnic and racial identity, of which that of minority

groups is not the least. How can we promote the energetic

participation of all South Africans without expecting any group to

negate or to underplay its cultural roots? How can we celebrate a

truly manifold South African society?
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 72 OF 175

The vast majority of noteworthy conflicts that exist in the world at

present are between communities within national states, rather then

between national states themselves. Most of these conflicts are at

least partially rooted in the failure of ethnic, cultural and

religious communities to co-exist peacefully. At the same time it is

important to acknowledge that ethnic, cultural and religious

conflict is invariably entwined with some or other form of material

abstinence and/or political exclusion.



It is essentially when individuals and groups experience a sense of

exclusion from this state household and from its material benefits

that they rely on identity interests to further their political and

material agendas. There is an increasing global awareness that

nations – and especially nations in transition from oppressing

governments and sustained violence – are failing to address this

danger of excluding groups from the nation-building processes. This

is to their own disadvantage.



The balance that is necessary here is delicate, to delay the

creation of a shared and inclusive culture and to allow opposition

groups to continue with the old order. On the other hand, by moving

forward too fast, we can promote resentment and potential

destabilisation.



The question of how to build an inclusive state under circumstances

of deep historic cultural, religious and material division poses a
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 73 OF 175

political challenge to budding democracies which academics,

politicians and all reasonable citizens will be wise to note.



Ten years later there is an indication that this unity is

increasingly being thrown off balance and is even being challenged

by a growing sense of particularism. The Khoisans‟ origin is being

celebrated. There is increasing pride amongst those who can trace

their identity to the arrival of slaves in the sixteenth century.

Afrikaners are claiming their place as a tribe of Africa. South

African Indians are acknowledging their cultural origin and Muslim

women are increasingly being seen in public with black veils. On the

whole it seems to be only South African English-speaking people who

are trying to seek their origin behind some or other kind of global

language domination. The majority of black Africans are in no way

more uniform than any other group and yet, perhaps because of a new

sense of domination, they are largely indifferent to the searches

and disputes that characterise the identity struggles of minority

groups.



This is where a few of the various nations are starting to live and

move together. They refuse to flee to the ghetto of white or black

exclusivity. This affords a way out that no South African, white or

black, can afford to ignore. They are transcending tribal chauvinism

and because of their strong African identity they are challenging

various blind concepts of liberal inclusivity. They are not

complaining. They are not asking for special favours. They are not
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 74 OF 175

complaining about a need for white/black privileges or minority

rights. They are claiming their rights to be South Africans in a

nonracial democratic South Africa. Perhaps they are capable of this

owing to being rooted in their own African identity, without

assuming that the own is more important than the other. The

inclusive South African vision that incorporates an invitation as

well as a challenge is to transcend race, culture and former

identity, as well as class differences. Health status, the immediate

social needs and the challenge involve the implications of living in

a country that is still racked by the injustices of the past.

Invitation and challenge are opposite sides of the same coin, being

a confirmation of the inherent link between reconciliation, social

inclusion and economic development. Quite simply, reconciliation and

inclusion do not necessarily pertain to present realities. That

reminds us that for reconciliation to survive and for cultural

tolerance to prosper, the material and the subjective needs have to

be promoted as opposite sides of the same coin.



Of course, apartheid was built on multicultural differences, and the

promotion of group identity was proffered as a pretext for

dominating   “Boerestaat” politics and Zulu nationalism. These, in

turn, proceeded to confirm the right to be different, to build a

society in which different cultures and ethnic groups live by side,

instead of exploring the possibilities of associating with one

another. This clearly entails its own set of problems; given that
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 75 OF 175

human nature and politics are what they are, the struggle for

domination lends itself to this kind of nationalism.



This concerns the consideration of what the future may hold, rather

than trying to prevent the inevitable. It means admitting that new,

complex identities are beginning to emerge in South Africa.

Unfortunately it took our forefathers about 40 years to realise

these and many other principles contained in the Freedom Charter.



Efficiency is our answer to the limited resources. As we all know,

mining is one of the largest providers of jobs to all facets of

society. However, we shall have to start looking at other solutions

for the provision of job opportunities. The natural capital of the

environment is being threatened more than ever before by the

prospective population growth and the dramatic increase in

industrial activities.



We are closer than ever before to the limits of growth in our use of

resources. At present we are not depleting certain mineral resources

and fossil fuels as fast as was feared, but the impact of their use

on the environment is becoming critical. If industrial growth had

been adequate to eradicate the poverty in the developing areas, the

consumption of resources would have increased to levels above those

that the environment could sustain.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 76 OF 175

Production and consumption must therefore become more efficient and

we as the youth must make a shift to a more rational use of

resources by utilising renewable resources and through the

circulation of production and resources of which the waste can be

reused. We must also add far more value to the resources that we do

in fact use, by way of a shift from material goods to services. The

youth in this country must be at the helm of changing the emphasis

from the exploitation of natural resources to the empowerment of

their human capital by means of a different concept of growth. The

demand for energy can be decreased considerably by a more rational

use of it. However, it may be more labour intensive and must enable

local communities to manage their own energy consumption themselves.

The provision of energy must shift from coal to renewable and clean

sources.



Such a shift is possible with credible, scientific technology.

Regarding developments proposed in this field, the youth of this

country must realise that there is a huge shortage of correctly

trained people who can enable such changes to take place.

Nevertheless, considerable investments in research are still

necessary. Information and communication technology is imperative

for the production, logistics, consumption and mosaic of lifestyles

that are environmentally friendly.



In order to tackle these challenges we must use all the managerial

mechanisms that are necessary to complete frameworks for
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 77 OF 175

development. Taxation systems must discourage the use of resources

and encourage entrepreneurship and the creation of value in order to

replace the emphasis on material goods with non-material services. A

large-scale shift to taxation on material resources, energy, land

and road transport facilities is necessary. [Time

expired.][Applause.]]



Mr N T GODI: Comrade Chairperson, comrades and hon members, today‟s

debate should not be misconstrued as an engagement in an annual

ritual about the youth. It must be understood and appreciated that

we are talking about and focusing on the youth, because on this day

in June 1976, and since then until our liberation, the youth played

a pivotal role in dislodging white minority rule.



It was the Guinea-Bissaun revolutionary Amilcar Cabral who said that

when people engage in a liberation struggle, they are not fighting

for ideas or anything in anyone‟s head but for material benefits and

that they want a practical improvement in their lives. Creating

youth employment and fighting poverty, therefore, is an imperative

that seeks to give practical and material expression to our

liberation struggle.



The youth as a percentage of our population is very high. It is also

a fact that measures taken so far have not made a serious dent in

the employment levels. It is a fact that, massively, the youth –
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 78 OF 175

both young graduates and dropouts - constitute the army of the

unemployed and destitute. I think Comrade Mohlaloga quantified that.



It is in the interests of the country‟s long-term social stability

to urgently and practically address the scourge of joblessness. The

PAC would like to challenge private capital, which has lobbied and

eulogised the developmental paradigm of a minimalist state, to rise

to the logical challenge of their economic responsibility and create

jobs – jobs and more quality jobs for all and especially our youth.



Since the historic compromises of 1993 in the Codesa negotiations,

private capital has not fulfilled its side of the bargain hammered

out with its political representatives. Up until now it has not met

obligations it committed itself to in the Growth and Development

Summits. The PAC believes that the youth should raise their voice of

legitimate expectations to private capital, and I believe this House

will support them.



The PAC, however, also calls on government agencies, like the

Umsobomvu Youth Fund and other funding agencies, to play their role

effectively and efficiently. The bureaucracy and expensive projects

that yield few jobs must be discouraged. The financial cake must be

cut more thinly and widely.



The PAC also calls on the youth not to yield to the vagaries of

bourgeois society and degenerate into lumpens. They must direct
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 79 OF 175

their energies, talents and creativity towards initiating their own

projects, especially now that we have passed the Co-operatives Bill,

which is deliberately biased towards, amongst others, the youth in

terms of funding. The economic dividend for our youth is long

overdue. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson, we all know that one of our biggest

challenges is poverty and that poverty alleviation, besides being

first on our agenda, is an extended responsibility upon all. One way

of bringing about poverty alleviation has been through job creation.



The MF in all ways objects to any form of child labour, but as

children enter their teens they have to be taught responsibility.

Youth empowerment is such a means and proves to be even more

beneficial for poverty-stricken families that need assistance in

many ways.



The morals and values of responsibility and delivery in terms of

responsibility will assist in socialising our youth into responsible

adults and will allow them a window into the economic world that may

give them direction regarding the path to take as an adult in order

to fend for themselves and their families. Employment shall also

offer skills that will contribute to their future.



However, the MF may support employment and the skills development of

our youth at a certain age but we object to all forms of
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 80 OF 175

exploitation of child labour and earnestly request that mechanisms,

policies and legislation be put in place to ensure the safety and

protection of our youth in employment.



Further, children and youth at these callow stages of their lives

need to be allowed to celebrate and enjoy their youth and to indulge

themselves in being children and being educated. The MF upholds that

employment should in no way hinder the education and rights awarded

to them by our Constitution.



In terms of youth employment, the MF seeks oversight and policies to

ensure that the best interests of our youth are upheld. We also feel

that our youth can contribute to poverty alleviation and that

orchestrating our youth from about the age of 16 years into suitable

employment will assist poverty alleviation. Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, June 16 was indeed a turning point

in the history of our country. On that day schoolchildren in Soweto

took to the streets in what seemed to be a struggle against

Afrikaans. But those who were in the leadership of Saso, the BPC and

Sasm knew very well that the uprising was planned and constituted an

act that was part and parcel of the liberation efforts that our

people were engaged in.



It is now common cause that the might of the apartheid regime came

down upon innocent children and took the lives of many of them,
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 81 OF 175

including that of a 13-year-old boy, Hector Peterson. Another young

man marching next to him who has disappeared – nobody knows where he

is – picked him up and, together with Hector Peterson‟s sister, took

him to a parked car.



Azapo joins the nation in remembering all those heroes and heroines

of our struggle who laid down their lives for the noble goals of

freedom, peace and democracy.



As we celebrate we should also remember that education then was a

struggle issue. We must be aware of the fact that education for

blacks was designed to be poor in quality and was specifically

intended to keep blacks out of the modern sector of the economy,

thus ensuring a steady supply of cheap labour particularly for the

agricultural, mining and domestic sectors.



Allow me to join the hon Bhengu in quoting Verwoerd on this matter.

At the time Verwoerd was Minister of Native Affairs. He asked: “What

is the use of teaching a Bantu child mathematics when it cannot use

it in practice?” The aim was to perpetuate white supremacy by giving

whites better quality education than that given to blacks. Because

of these past policies of the apartheid regime, our country is now

faced with an unskilled labour force, unskilled educators and a

black youth that is excluded from the economy.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 82 OF 175

Right up to now we still have black children that go to school in

dilapidated buildings where toilet facilities are filthy and

inadequate; where there are broken windows, few desks and not enough

books; and where overcrowding in classrooms remains the order of the

day. Under these circumstances the question of youth unemployment is

unavoidable. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Mr G R MORGAN: Hon Chair and members, the need to create employment

opportunities for our young people is of crucial importance. It is

so important that it should be practically the only focus of

organisations that claim to speak for the youth.



The clowns in the ANC Youth League claim to speak for the youth, but

they in practice are a poor example for the youth, behaving

constantly like spoilt brats. The invectives of Youth League

President Fikile Mbalula have become exceedingly predictable.

Attacking Judge Squires, a member of the judiciary, as “an old

apartheid Rhodesian” was downright appalling. Backing former Deputy

President Zuma was downright stupid. “Zuma 100%”, they screamed.



And perhaps that is the problem with members of the Youth League –

they have a complete lack of judgment. Being attacked by the Youth

League should actually be viewed as a badge of honour, because those

who find themselves under attack, which is hardly a terrifying

prospect, are obviously doing something right. Their chosen form of

attack is to call the target a racist or a fascist, with a number of
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 83 OF 175

other libellous statements attached for descriptive value. So much

for their supposed fight for a nonracial society. They are the

racists.



What message do they send out to the youth on respecting the

institutions of our new democracy, which so many young people fought

to achieve? What message do they send out to young people about the

stance this country should take against corruption? Mbalula must put

on his dunce cap and go sit in the corner.



An hour ago in Durban, the National Youth Council dissolved the

proceedings of the youth conference and took to the streets of

Durban in support of Jacob Zuma. This is a display of blatant

immaturity on the part of the leadership of the council and shows

that political gain, and not creating jobs, is the top issue on

their agenda this week.



And yet the hon Alec Erwin has the nerve to criticise the hon Leader

of the Opposition‟s entirely reasonable and supportive statement

delivered earlier today in the House. Hon Erwin should place his

attention on the disrespectful event unfolding in Durban as we

speak.



Last week the ANC Youth League called for more jobs for young

people. The DA could not agree more with this. Indeed, 60% of people

between 18 and 25 are unemployed. Our youth require opportunities to
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 84 OF 175

skill themselves and to find gainful employment, and, by doing so,

to realise their dreams. But the Youth League in its infinite wisdom

decided to target business, especially the mining houses, during

marches in various centres. Attacks on the mining houses from within

the ANC have become commonplace in recent times. It is obvious from

this march and from the blind support for the former Deputy

President that the Youth League is not an independent organisation,

but a mere instrument used by senior ANC leaders to settle scores.

[Interjections.]



If it was an independent organisation and it was really serious

about fighting for more jobs for young people, then it would march

on Parliament or the Union Buildings because it is the ANC

government‟s labour and educational policies that prevent the

significant employment of youth.



If we want to create jobs we need to grow this economy at more than

6% and give businesses the necessary incentives to create employment

opportunities. The ANC Youth League can march all it wants – that is

their right – and indeed the hon Minister of Health will be happy,

because at least they are getting exercise, which is good for

emerging fat cats.



So, what is the point of the ANC Youth League since they offer no

valuable contributions on the discourse surrounding job creation?

Well, besides being an instrument for senior ANC leaders, it exists
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 85 OF 175

for the self-enrichment of its members. One only needs to look at

the Youth League‟s website to see how it has begun to erode its own

struggle credentials. Yes, you can now get lifestyle tips, including

what Mercedes to buy, what trendy nightspot to go to, or what to

wear. That‟s a universe apart from the 60% of young people who are

unemployed and is downright insensitive to the plight of these

people. But it is not surprising because the Youth League is full of

careerists that make poor judgments, and those that join them share

those attributes. [Applause.]



Ms N R MOKOTO: Chairperson, hon members, members of the public, I

greet you. The ANC has created an environment that allows for each

and every citizen to voice or express himself or herself in the

freest way possible without fear of being arrested, of being

detained or of being tortured. It is very surprising today that the

DA, which has flourished under that environment, has the audacity to

criticise the ANC Youth League as brats of the ANC.



HON MEMBERS: Yes, they are!



Ms N R MOKOTO: The DA has benefited from apartheid and today it is

abusing democracy to push its agenda. Youth unemployment and poverty

are massive challenges that the government cannot ignore.

Researchers have hinted that close to 70% of the unemployed in the

world are young people and rates are even higher amongst women and,
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 86 OF 175

worse of all, the disabled and quite astronomical for those with

lesser education.



This assertion is supported by the ILO Report on Youth and

Unemployment, which states that youth unemployment is twice as high

as that of adults. This gap widens further in developing countries.

Youth unemployment contributes to economic exclusion, poverty and

the probability of future joblessness. It is a major cause of crime

and drug abuse and also obstructs the development of young people

from adolescence to adulthood. A high level of youth unemployment

can lead to alienation from the society and distrust in the

democratic political process.



Many of us do not understand these challenges that continue to

affect our youth on a day-to-day basis. Ten years ago, when the

democratic forces of change prepared themselves for an official

takeover of political power, this issue, like many others that we

inherited from the apartheid regime, remained prominent on the

agenda of the democratic government.



As government we are ready to give guidance to the nation on how we

intend to deal with this growing joblessness, particularly amongst

our youth. As a point of departure it is critical to note the

following: that joblessness and poverty amongst our people are not

political gimmicks, like the DA is doing, but a national problem. We

are aware that some parties - whose agenda we don‟t understand and
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 87 OF 175

who don‟t have the slightest idea or experience of poverty and

joblessness, except in theory - are currently using this as a tactic

to gain votes for themselves.



We have noted the calls for government to abandon its policies to

redress the imbalances of the past, amongst black people in

particular. As a government we will not be harassed or intimidated

by such calls, because they wish to undermine our good intentions

for our youth. Government will push forward with these programmes,

since they are supported by the people – the 70% of the population

that voted for the ANC.



We want to tell you that the Employment Equity Act, the Broad-based

Black Economic Empowerment Act and other legislation meant to

redress those previous imbalances will remain relevant, and the ANC

is going to go forward in implementing them. It is very sad and

disgraceful to see that some of the right-wing parties are

practising double standards and pretending to be on the side of the

impoverished masses of our people, speaking vociferously on their

behalf on issues of poverty, and they are the ones who are to blame

for this high rate of joblessness and the scourge of poverty that is

engulfing our people. [Interjections.]



We are warning you that the masses are watching you and they know

your evil deeds and your track record and they will expose you and

your insatiable intention to exploit them. It is an issue that
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 88 OF 175

cannot be used to undermine or destabilise our good work and our

achievements in the democratic order. We are also aware that certain

developments that are taking place in our country, especially at

local government, are being engineered by some of you with the

intention of reversing the gains of our democracy.



It is important to note that such actions will not shake the

hegemony of the ANC and instead they will further strengthen our

democracy. Our youth are not ignorant. Our people are working day in

and out to ensure that we root out these elements – those who are

behind these protest marches.



I will now go into the substance of this debate. Job summits and

national growth summits that were held at national, provincial and

municipal levels have identified the triple effort needed and also

identified priorities to be utilised to totally eradicate poverty

and to wipe out joblessness amongst our people. We are confident

that the commitment made by government through its programme of

action will facilitate rapid implementation on this matter on time

to reach our national deadline to wipe out joblessness and poverty

by the year 2014.



We have to note that youth unemployment and poverty will be

eradicated and we intend that this will be used to reverse the

legacy of apartheid. Like all other social ills we have inherited

from the apartheid regime, unemployment represents a history that
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 89 OF 175

can be traced back to pre-1994, characterised by job reservation,

the colour bar and racialised limitations to entry into jobs and

skills training which exacerbated poverty amongst our people. Very

few people in social and political youth formations have been able

to put into context the plight of our youth and on the agenda of

both government and the private sector.



We appreciate the inroads made by government in setting up the

agencies that are currently supporting or advocating youth

interests. It is in this context that the ANC-led government has

emphasised that alone we cannot or we will not be able to tackle

joblessness and poverty exhaustively, hence the need for

partnerships between business, government and the public in dealing

with this matter. I am not surprised by your bad behaviour.



As young people we will continue to support the efforts by the

Umsobomvu Youth Fund, the National Youth Commission and the SA Youth

Council to engage business and government departments together with

the private sector in ensuring that youth powerlessness and

exclusion in the mainstream economy remains a thing of the past. The

Jobs for Youth Campaign, the call for a 30% youth quota in

procurement and adopt a learnership programme waged by the ANC Youth

League, which is a leader of the youth movements in South Africa,

are very commendable programmes and serve as good reinforcement to

youth empowerment taking place in our country. I hope the DA will

develop a programme around youth issues. [Interjections.]
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 90 OF 175



AN HON MEMBER: We have one.



Ms N R MOKOTO: We are specifically referring to programmes like the

National Youth Service, learnerships and the promotion of youth

entrepreneurship. We are truly convinced that these programmes will

in the long run enable us to bridge the huge economic disparities

that continue to affect young people, especially our young women.

The EPWP is a national programme, which will draw significant

numbers of unemployed youth into productive employment, so that

workers acquire skills while they are gainfully employed and so that

they increase their capacity to earn an income once they leave the

programme.



The EPWP is aimed at employing one million unemployed youth during

the first five years. The centrepiece of this programme is a large-

scale programme of using labour-intensive methods to upgrade rural

and municipal roads, municipal pipelines, storm-water drains and

paving, as well as fencing of roads, community water supply,

housing, schools, clinics, rail, ports and infrastructure

electrification and so on. The youth of our country are significant

stakeholders in this reconstruction and development plan. They are

part of our population, many of whom fall in the category of

economically active.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 91 OF 175

Across all levels of the government we are striving to ensure that

the youth are given the opportunity to create wealth and income for

themselves and for our country. A lot of energy has gone into

infusing a youth development approach in delivery in the public

systems, though the results are still uneven. Through the National

Youth Commission and the UYF it has been possible to provide

guidance to departments and interact with senior managers to ensure

that youth development is supported internally.

Youth development must become an integral part of what we do in the

provinces and municipalities. Youth development and participation

must form part of our development in integrated development plans.

The partnership between National Youth Commission, the Umsobomvu

Youth Fund and the SA Youth Council has developed a strong impetus

for decisions we took in terms of establishing and implementing a

National Youth Service. In the coming months we have seen the

National Youth Service being jerked up from pilot service project,

administered through the three partners, into a coherent national

effort, involving key national and provincial departments.



Other innovative interventions that can and must be made to address

the challenges of the second economy are also exemplified by the

public/private partnership ICT initiative between the Mogalakwena

District Municipality in Limpopo province and Hewlett Packard. This

is an exciting programme, which utilises modern communication and

information technology to bring all-round development to the
14 JUNE 2005                                       PAGE: 92 OF 175

Mogalakwena rural area. We must work to expand this kind of

programme into other rural areas.



The Expanded Public Works Programme has been one specific programme

that has yielded good results and continues to pave ways for

brighter prospects for our young people, especially in terms of

movement from the second to the first economy. Thank you,

Chairperson. [Applause.]



Debate concluded.



RECENT PROTESTS BY CERTAIN SECIONS OF COMMUNITIES OVER DELIVERY AND

                          CHALLENGES OF GOVERNANCE



                          (Subject for Discussion)



Mr M J G MZONDEKI: Chairperson, it‟s an honour for me to participate

in this very important debate today. I also want to wish the Youth

League success in their activities on 16 June. The recent protests

by   certain   sections     of   our   communities    against   delivery   and

challenges of governance are surely a matter of concern to many of

us sitting here today, whether on the right or the left of this

House. And as the ANC we understand that our laws allow for peaceful

demonstrations    whereby    people    seek   to   raise   concerns,   whether

genuine or not.
14 JUNE 2005                                          PAGE: 93 OF 175

And it is in that understanding that we find it important for this

House to debate this matter. We hope that out of such a debate we

may find solutions to some of the challenges that face us as a

nation. We invite members of this House to debate this, because we

believe that our collective effort can enable us to find solutions.

We invite you because we believe that in a South Africa that belongs

to all we all have a responsibility to improve the lives of those

who live in it and to strive for a better life for all.



What    do   these    protesters    say?    What   makes     them    to   take   to   the

streets, blockade roads, burn tyres and sometimes loot businesses?

They say they are getting impatient. They say they want attention,

they say they want be heard. But what do they say are the issues of

concern? They say there is homelessness and that the housing backlog

is not being addressed as urgently as they think it should be. They

say there are problems with waiting lists; they say they do not

understand why they stay so long on waiting lists. In some instances

they say all they need is a space to build a roof over their heads.

They do not understand why they cannot build houses on the open

spaces they see.



I don‟t want to be tempted to talk about some of the reasons that

could   justify      some   of   these   backlogs,    such    as    the   scrapping   of

influx control, which has enabled people from rural areas to locate

closer to the towns where there are jobs. Another factor is the

curtailment     of    agricultural       activities   on     the    farms,   which    has
14 JUNE 2005                                            PAGE: 94 OF 175

caused people to move to the townships. The people also say that

there    is   poor    sanitation,       that   there   are   still   areas     where    the

bucket system is used and where sewerage from leaking pipes fill the

streets. They say in some areas there is poor water supply and in

some instances the water supplied is not clean. They complain about

corruption as well. But what is the real situation on the ground?



The real situation is that some of these concerns are real. But

others    are    a     reflection        of    a   distance       between      our    local

municipalities        and   our     communities.       In    my    constituency,         for

instance,     there    is   a   complaint      about   the    absence     of   a     24-hour

clinic. One young person was stabbed at night and bled to death

because an ambulance had to be called from another town, which is

approximately 30km away. The community feels that if there was a 24-

hour clinic in the vicinity, his life could have been saved. But

nobody    had    informed         the    community     that       there     are      certain

requirements for a 24-hour clinic, such as population density and so

on.



There is also a concern that ward committees are not functioning

properly, or not functioning at all, and this is true if you look at

the MPs‟ reports from my province, who say that the participation in

the IDP review meetings is poor and that there is a need for more

public education on how participation in IDPs can improve service

delivery.
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 95 OF 175

Modulasetulo, baipelaetsi ba Phomolong e leng moo eleng lebatowa la

ka, ba tletleba ka hore ditoropong tse nyane jwaloka ya bona ba

fumantshwa   thuso e nyane mme, boholo ba tjhelete le ditshebeletso

di lebiswa ditoropong tse kgolo jwalo ka Welkom. Nnete ke hore,

mmasepala o leka ka hohle ho aba tjhelete hoya ka ditlhoko tsa

lebatowa ka leng. Empa ka ha dikomiti tsa mabatowa ha di sebetse

hantle, baahi ha ba fumane tlhalosetso e ntle esitana le ho tseba

bohlokwa ba ho nka karolo ha bona dipuisanong tsena tsa di IDPs. Ke

nnete hore ho ntse ho ena le dibaka ka hare ho motse moo eleng hore

ditshebeletso tsa dikgwere-kgwere ha di jese ditheohelang. Baahi ba

bang ha ba elellwe hore mmuso o na le mosebetsi wa motonana wa ho

kenya ditshebeletso tsena dibakeng tse neng di sa rallwa

ditshebeletso tsa mofuta oo, mmusong wa kgethollo. Le ha ho le

jwalo, ho bohlokwa hore setjhaba se behwe leseding ka bothata bona.

(Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)



[Chairperson, protesters from my ward in Phomolong complain that

people from small towns, like themselves, receive little assistance,

and that most of the money and services are channelled to big towns

like Welkom. The truth is that the municipality tries by all means

to allocate the money according to the needs of each ward. But

because the ward committees are not functioning properly, citizens

do not get proper explanations and the importance of attending IDP

meetings is not properly impressed   upon them. It is true that there

are areas within the community where sanitation is poor. Some

citizens are unaware that the government has a huge task of bringing
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 96 OF 175

services to areas for which such services were not planned by the

former apartheid government. However, it is of the utmost importance

that people are informed about this problem.]



Let us examine the impact of these protests on service delivery.

These protests in many areas have disturbed service delivery. When

roads are blockaded, service delivery is affected in that delivery

vehicles and contractors are unable to operate. In some areas, such

as in Ventersdorp, attempts were made to blockade the N1 road, which

would have had serious implications to some businesses due to

delayed deliveries or nondeliveries. School going has been disrupted

and public transport blocked.



All these actions, while intended to raise awareness, have

negatively impacted on service delivery. The concerned group in

Phomolong, for instance, confirms that it is not their intention to

disturb schools, but learners get excited to join when there is a

demonstration. The people have also settled themselves in

underdeveloped areas, which were under survey for development.



With regard to alleged corrupt officials, due legal processes are

taking place. The concerns of the groups in this regard indicate

that there is a lack of understanding of such processes. The

challenges highlighted by some of these protests need our combined

efforts. I believe that as this collective in this House we are

better placed to assist in dissemination of information about
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 97 OF 175

government and services; and better placed to observe blockages and

raise alarms in time. We are also better placed to explain processes

for service delivery at all levels.



We need to encourage problem-solving at a local level by encouraging

public participation. Our government remains committed to improving

service delivery through programmes such as your community

development programme and Project Consolidate, which I believe some

of my colleagues will dwell on. These programmes aim to give hands-

on support to struggling municipalities. They also aim to address

challenges of the distance between local municipalities and the

people, as well as the capacity of some of the municipalities to

deliver.



We do not rule out the element of opportunism in some of these

actions, those who would use this opportunity to position themselves

for certain situations. The ANC believes that leaders are put in

place through democratic processes, not by manipulation. We,

therefore, appeal to our communities to make use of structures put

in place and raise these critical issues.



Whilst the communities have complained about lack of contact with

the councillors through ward meetings, I also want to emphasise that

it is irrespective of which parties own those wards. In the

constituency that I am from not all wards belong to the ANC - for

example, one of the wards belongs to the DA. When the committees
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 98 OF 175

complain, they do not say that it is the ANC that is not calling

meetings. They actually say that the DA also do not call meetings in

their ward.



I think in the media there is an understanding or a misconception

that it is because of the ANC delaying to deliver that these

protests are taking place. I just want to indicate that that is not

necessarily true. I think it is a challenge for all of us, and that

all of us have a responsibility to ensure that people understand

some of these processes and some of the constraints that we are

facing. I want to thank you. [Applause.]



Mr W P DOMAN: Chair, can I congratulate hon Mzondeki on the very

honest approach that he showed in this speech just now. He will find

that although I point out problems, I also suggest solutions in each

and every case.



Wat die patroon van onluste by gemeenskappe betref; dit het verlede

jaar met die sogenaamde Septemberrevolusie in die Vrystaat begin

omdat die ANC aldaar baie verdeeld was en nie die deksel op die pot

kon hou nie. Sedertdien is feitlik geen provinsie ongeskonde gelaat

nie, en loop ANC-beheerde munisipaliteite oral deur. Dit is asof

alle gemeenskappe wil seker maak dat hulle ook gehoor word.



Die DA verwerp ‟n derde mag as die rede vir die onluste. Ten eerste,

dit is té verspreid en té spontaan om deur ‟n derde mag georkestreer
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 99 OF 175

te word, ten tweede, die ANC beheer 250+ van die 284 munisipaliteite

landwyd. Die ANC is dus baie goed ingegrawe en sou die eerste gewees

het om ‟n sogenoemde derde mag agter te kom. Ten derde, niemand kan

tot vandag toe naastenby identifiseer wie agter die onluste sit nie.

Die ANC moet baie bekommerd wees dat sy ondersteuners deur ander

magte opgesweep kan word, veral as die DA nogal die eer hiervoor

gegee word.



Die DA verwerp ook die ANC se verskoning dat swak kommunikasie die

oorsaak van die onluste is. Die probleem is eerder dat die ANC niks

het, behalwe verskonings vir verbreekte beloftes, om te kommunikeer

aan die gemeenskappe nie. Die gemeenskappe glo nie meer raadslede

nie, en baie raadslede het bang geword vir hulle gemeenskappe. Ons

sien op televisie hoe raadslede deur die polisie van hulle eie mense

gered moet word in gepanserde voertuie. Ja, kommunikasie het

verswak, maar dit is omdat uitvoerende burgemeesterskomitees agter

geslote deure vergader. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs

follows.)



[With regard to the pattern of riots within the communities,   this

started with the so-called September Revolution in the Free State

last year because the ANC there was very divided and could not keep

the lid on the pot. Since then virtually no province has been spared

and all ANC-controlled municipalities have borne the brunt of this.

It is as if all of the communities want to ensure that they will be

heard.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 100 OF 175



The DA rejects the notion of a third force as the reason for these

riots. Firstly, they are too widespread and spontaneous to have been

orchestrated by a third force. Secondly, the ANC controls

approximately 250 of the 284 municipalities countrywide. The ANC is

therefore deeply entrenched and would have been the first to detect

a so-called third force. Thirdly, nobody can, until today, come

close to identifying who is behind these riots. The ANC must be very

worried that its supporters can be incited by other forces,

especially if the credit for this is given to the DA.



The DA also rejects the ANC‟s excuse that poor communication caused

the riots. The problem is rather that the ANC has nothing to offer

the communities, apart from excuses for broken promises. The

communities no longer believe councillors, and many councillors have

become   afraid of their own communities. We see on television how

councillors have to be rescued from their own communities by police

in armoured vehicles. Yes, communication has deteriorated, but it as

a result of executive mayoral committees having meetings behind

closed doors.]



And yes, communication with communities has broken down to a great

extent precisely because of poor service delivery. The government

has now established community development workers to plug this gap,

amounting to a duplication of councillors and MPs responsibilities.

The creation of CDWs effectively absolves councillors and their
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 101 OF 175

constituency ward offices of any responsibility. This is highly

disturbing when one considers that CDWs are unelected and in fact,

if their ANC T-shirts at the opening of the Western Cape legislature

is anything to go by, these people are accountable only to the ANC

and will effectively serve as state-funded election campaigners in

the upcoming local elections. That will put the fairness of that

election in jeopardy.



As far as communication is concerned, the ANC has a totally

misguided trust in ward committees. The ANC regularly boast how many

wards committees have been established all over the country, as if

they will solve all the problems. When will the ANC realise that

wards committees are fundamentally flawed? How can 10 people

represent the diversity in wards of 10 000 voters? How can one

person represent all religious groups in that ward? Or the diverse

local government interest groups like Sanco, ratepayers

organisations, etc.



When will the ANC concede that ward committees actually create a

barrier between groups and individuals on the one hand and

councillors on the other? These days councillors hide behind the

ward committees as if they are the only official groups that they

recognise. It has become widespread practice for councillors to

attempt to manipulate ward committee elections so that only their

cronies are represented. And if not, councillors view these ward

committees members as a threat to their own re-election. No wonder
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 102 OF 175

that the Department of Provincial and Local Government and

municipalities have to organise workshop after workshop in an

attempt to make ward committees work.



At these workshops the same fundamental questions are dealt with

over and over gain and no answers are found. Let‟s just take one

example: will only the wards committees be consulted about IDPs? No,

it must be whole community. Then what purpose does those ward

committees serve if in any event you have to consult with everybody

in the ward?



No ward committees have been established in the Western Cape until

recently, and its municipalities were on average the best run in the

country. And provinces that have been controlled by the ANC since

1994 have battled for five years now to make ward committees work,

and the majority of these municipalities are still in a mess. So

what difference does the ward committees make?



We should scrap these provisions in law about how society must

organise itself and rather concentrate on what councillors should

do. The answer lies in what we already have in legislation, namely

that councillors must report back to the community. We must just

tighten it by prescribing it must be monthly and at a public

meeting, with proper notification to all interested, registered

groups and the public at large.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 103 OF 175

As swak kommunikasie nie die oorsaak is nie, maar eerder die gevolg,

wat is dan die oorsaak van al hierdie onluste? Die antwoord is

natuurlik: swak dienslewering en nogmaals swak dienslewering deur

die ANC. Die ANC het vir homself ‟n lat gepluk, eerstens, deur

onrealistiese beloftes te maak net om stemme te werf.

Onverantwoordelike beloftes, wat die ANC leiers geweet het hulle

nooit sou kon uitvoer nie, is in die aanloop tot die 2 000

munisipale verkiesing gemaak.



Toe het ons nie gehoor dit sou tyd neem om uit te voer nie, toe het

ons nie gehoor dit sou geld neem en dat hulle dit nie het nie. Nee,

daar is net beloftes gemaak, goedkoop beloftes, en die ANC sal

vandag hierdie saak self moet regmaak deur vir die mense te begin

sê: wees realisties, dit neem tyd, en middele is beperk.



Die tweede is, vanaf 2000 het die ANC rade met personeel

transformasie op rassegrondslag kundigheid verjaag, veral wit en

bruin amptenare is vervreem, en die wat nog daar is, is totaal

ongemotiveerd, want hulle sit met ‟n bevorderingsplafon waarteen

hulle vaskyk. Hier weer is die antwoord dat daar ‟n onmiddellike en

dringende antwoord moet kom om die kundige amptenare te laat tuis

voel … [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans

paragraphs follows.)



[If poor communication is not the cause, but rather the result, what

then is the cause of all these riots? The answer is, naturally, poor
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 104 OF 175

service delivery and once again poor service delivery on the part of

the ANC. The ANC has made a rod for its own back, firstly by making

unrealistic promises simply to canvass votes. Irresponsible

promises, which the ANC leadership knew they could never keep, were

made in the run-up to the 2000 municipal elections.



At the time we did not hear that these would take time to implement,

and we did not hear that it would require money which they did not

have. No, promises were simply made, cheap promises, and today the

ANC will have to rectify this matter themselves by beginning to tell

the public to be realistic, that these things take time and that the

means are limited.



Secondly, since 2000 the ANC councils, with their staff

transformation policy based on race, have driven away expertise,

alienating especially white and coloured officials, and those who

have remained are totally demotivated because they have reached

their ceiling for promotion. Once again the answer here is that an

immediate and urgent solution should be sought whereby these

competent officials may be allowed to feel at home . . . [ Time

expired.] [Applause.]]



Mr P F SMITH: Chairperson, the IFP would like to start by

congratulating hon Mzondeki for this motion. We think it is very

opportune to discuss it now. In the short time I have, I would like

to just raise three issues in relation to it. The first is how
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 105 OF 175

people perceive these protestors and the protests. Let me quote for

example the Cape Town exco member dealing with housing, Carol

Beerwinkel, who said that she believed that the protest was a

political ploy to undermine the government. And she saw it as an

electioneering ploy.



Another member, the hon Housing Minister, Lindiwe Sisilu, was quoted

as saying that the protest was out of sync with what was being

achieved and that the protest was caused by political opportunism.

Both of those responses are inappropriate, and in fact the correct

way of approaching the matter was shown by the President of the

Republic, who said that the protests were apparently driven “by

feelings amongst the poor that so far the democratic order had

failed them” and again, the general secretary of the ANC had this to

say: “Our major worry is what we have not done which drives people

to do such actions”. I quote again: “Protestors are crying out to be

heard”. This is in fact the correct response to the problem. It does

not solve the problem, of course, but you must always start when you

have a problem by acknowledging the reality, and we believe that

that is the correct approach.



The second issue is that we need to know what the hard realities are

that we are dealing with. Firstly, I think all the protests have two

common themes. One is the lack of delivery, especially in respect of

housing, and the other a lack of responsiveness by government to

people‟s needs.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 106 OF 175



It is obvious; we have been here for 10 years. There has been

delivery in the last 10 years and the delivery is fairly significant

in many regards, but politics is as much about perceptions as it is

about reality and the extent to which the people‟s expectations are

not met. Then, of course, this is a problem and I think that this is

what is happening in this instance.



If one looks at what an appropriate response to the protest could

possibly be, may I offer the following suggestion. First of all,

protestors are not the enemy and that means that we should not

demonise protestors and that we should not downplay their concerns.



Secondly, associated with these, we should not view the protest as

being ideologically motivated, as if they were antistate, which is

one of the response we have had. In fact, we do not need the NIA to

investigate the protest and we do not need to charge protestors with

sedition, which has happened in one instance.



Thirdly, we should minimise the use of force. This means that police

services need to be sensitive to people‟s concerns and their angers

and their vulnerability and we should not be either heavy-handed in

our response to them, or, as has happened in a number of instances,

refuse to engage with the protestors and listen to them. Of course

we do accept that law and order has to be maintained, and that is
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 107 OF 175

the minimum approach to the issue, but we do not want it done with a

“kragdadigheid” approach.



Fourthly, is the protest going to derail government and to what

extent can the protests be seen as something that will derail

government from its broad development trajectory?



We could like to say to this that government must not succumb to

populism, especially to populism that is non-sustainable. In fact,

if one thinks about it, populism and sustainability are often

mutually exclusive.



The real solution lies in better delivery. Better delivery means

stronger political will to deliver more local government support

and, in particular, more listening. There needs to be more

communication between residents of municipalities and the political

office-bearers at local level. More delivery will address the

problems. Thank you.



Mr J BICI: Chair, the UDM has witnessed with uneasiness the protests

that have erupted in various municipalities all over the country.

These protests have been characterised by two major complaints:

firstly, the failure to deliver the services that we promised and

that are legitimately expected by these communities and secondly,

the fact that the ANC councillors have in the view of these

communities, failed to acknowledge the concerns of their
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 108 OF 175

communities. When so many different people in so many different

places all raise the same complaints, it constituted for us

overwhelming evidence that many municipalities have utterly failed

to fulfil their constitutional duties. We do not think that it

points to the activities of a third force.



National government itself has on numerous occasions acknowledged

that local government is suffering from a severe lack of capacity,

yet national departments are increasingly devolving programmes to

assist at local government level. Similarly the local government‟s

share of the national revenue is steadily increasing.



Finally, we must evaluate the wisdom of increasing local government

budgets and responsibilities when many of them are clearly

struggling to deliver on the most basic of services. Thank you.



Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, protesting is a natural expression of

people‟s unhappiness about nondelivery. Linked to this is the right

to protest, as enshrined in the Constitution.



We must never underestimate the ability of our people to distinguish

right from wrong. After all, it is the same people who spontaneously

rose against an oppressive system and defeated it.



People understand the history of imbalances created under apartheid,

but they are no longer prepared to accept the excuse of not having
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 109 OF 175

the resources to attend to their problems. The issue is not that we

do not have the money, but that government doesn‟t have its

priorities right.



The ID feels for the people and understands their grievances, but we

must draw a line when it comes to violent protest. Violent protest

must be condemned in the strongest possible terms.



What are the solutions? We must stop wasting billions of rands on

consultancy. We must consult the people because they know best what

their needs are. We must align infrastructure development and

service delivery with the goals of a developmental state.



We must avoid roll-overs of budgets. We must root out corruption. We

must prioritise spending, especially spending on socio-economic

needs.



The ID will encourage communities to protest peacefully to make

their point, and no one can stop them, not even the third force.

Thank you.



Nksz N J NGELE: Mhlalingaphambili, ndifuna ukuthi kukho abantu

abangoongqondo-zijijekile, de babe zizidenge. Uthi umntu ejonga nje

abe eligxwem, ngoba uthi ejonge phambili kanti amehlo ajonge

kwelinye icala.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 110 OF 175

Kukho abantu abangayiboniyo into eyenzekileyo, yokwakhiwa kwezindlu.

Nanamhlanje basakhala bathi akwakhiwa zindlu. Bubudenge nobugxwem

obo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)



[Ms N J NGELE: Chairperson, I am inclined to say that some people‟s

minds seem to have turned upside down because they behave as if they

are stupid. They look at things as though they were squint.



Some people have, for some reason, not noticed what has happened.

Today they are still complaining about houses not being built. That

is like being squint-eyed and stupid.]



When the democratically elected government came to power 10 years

ago, there was an immediate realisation of the fact that government

machinery and the overall design of service delivery were not geared

towards ensuring that the previously marginalised sections of our

society would receive services in a manner that would change their

lives for the better.



As a result there was a need for systematic macro reorganisation and

transformation of state machinery to become responsive to the

service-delivery needs of all South Africans, as opposed to the pre-

1994 system, which supported delivery of services to a privileged

few.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 111 OF 175

Kuthe ngomhla wesi-8, kwinyanga yoMqungu, kulo nyaka, uMongameli

wacaphula kuMqulu weNkululeko, wathi: “Kuya kuba kho izindlu,

ukhuseleko nobutofotofo.” Iyenzeka loo nto. (Translation of Xhosa

paragraph follows.)



[On 8 February this year, the President cited this quote from the

Freedom Charter: “There shall be houses, security and comfort.” That

is precisely what is happening.]



Local government was to become the first point of contact between

the citizens and government. It was critical, in the transformation

process, for South Africa to: One, build effective intergovernmental

systems that would eliminate governance fragmentation; two, enable

co-ordinated government delivery efforts and, three, encourage

integrated development planning in order to achieve maximum impact.



A recent survey indicates that 28% of municipalities in the country

currently require basic institutional and administrative

infrastructure to be established and strengthened before they are

ready to undertake, manage and drive proper integrated development

planning.



This is not the only challenge facing us as the ANC, with regard to

the contract that we have entered into with our people. Rome was not

built in one day.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 112 OF 175

The former President Nelson Mandela once said that we need to double

the amount of energy that we used in destroying apartheid to rebuild

this country.



When the people came in big numbers in the past elections to renew

the mandate they gave to the ANC, we listened. We stick to our guns

as the ANC, and we will make the lives of ordinary citizens a better

one. This daunting task comes with challenges, which from time to

time need to be communicated to our people.



The houses being built in every corner of South Africa are testimony

to the success of our ANC-led government and the battle to push back

the frontiers of poverty. Local government is not just an important

site for the delivery of services, but is also crucial for the

social and economic development of people.



Capacity is still a problem to many municipalities, which hinders

progress in service delivery. As we debate in this House, there are

municipalities that do not have people with expertise in the housing

field. Despite the gaps in capacity, the ANC-led government has

delivered.



Many South Africans, for the first time in their lives, have shelter

and assets. The ANC is making strides in improving the lives of the

poorest of the poor.
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 113 OF 175

Much as we are faced with challenges in the delivery of services, we

also have a problem with regard to the landscape in the rural areas.

This impacts on the holistic approach of service delivery.



The Constitution of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, in section 26,

states that, and I quote:



  (1) Everyone has the right to have access to adequate housing.

  (2) The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures,

  within its available resources, to achieve the progressive

  realisation of this right.



One of the fundamentals is to fulfil what we promised our people in

the guiding document that drives the ANC‟s programmes. Fifty years

ago we said, as the ANC, and I quote: “All people shall have the

right to live where they choose, be decently housed and to bring up

their families in comfort and security.”



The above quotation was relevant 50 years ago, and is still relevant

today.



The Minister of Housing, Comrade Lindiwe Sisulu, has just signed a

memorandum of understanding with the banks in order to fast-track

delivery of better houses for our people. The tried-and-tested, and

oldest, liberation movement is the hope for all our people.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 114 OF 175

This organisation has a plan, which is stipulated in our 2004

manifesto, of pushing back the frontiers of poverty and has entered

into a contract with the people to create work.



During the third democratic elections in April 2004, the masses of

our people reconfirmed their confidence in our movement as the best

defender of the vision of the Freedom Charter.



Not only do we have the responsibility to ensure the realisation of

the goals of our fallen heroes during the struggle for freedom but

we also have the task to lead the people of South Africa to act in

unity to achieve these goals.



As the ANC we want to plead with our people to be patient in the

wake of these unrests. We also urge the councillors to communicate

government policies to the people. As members of this House, let us

use the constituency offices as resource centres for information.



We are faced with a mammoth challenge in delivering services. Some

people are jumping the queue, and this causes conflicts within

communities. We urge people to be tolerant towards one another, and

the needy ones should be prioritised. I thank you. [Applause.]



Rev M S KHUMALO: Hon Chairperson, the need for shelter is one of the

most basic of human needs. The recent wave of anger has arisen as a

direct result of impressive promises, which were not followed by
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 115 OF 175

impressive service delivery. Impressive promises create unrealistic

expectations. The government needs to present realistic facts to its

people. It further needs to check its capacity for service delivery

before making such promises.

The housing backlog in the country is huge and must be cleared as a

matter of urgency. The government needs to pinpoint those factors

that are putting a halt to effective service delivery. The ACDP

supports the call for reviewing and aligning of existing housing

legislation. We believe that this will provide the key to

eradicating the alarming backlog that currently exists. The ACDP

further calls for an end to all forms of corruption, political party

interference and nepotism in the housing allocation processes.



We are experiencing bitter cold this winter. Let our thoughts be

with those babies and children who suffer because they do not have

adequate shelter.



There has been talk of mysterious third forces that are inciting

protesters. Whether or not this is true is not an issue. The issue

is that we have a housing crisis on our hands. We must work

tirelessly to give people what they deserve.



The ACDP calls for a monitoring unit for all three spheres of

government that will deal with political and organisational

visibility of a housing delivery mechanism.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 116 OF 175

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die ANC is in die moeilikheid.

[Tussenwerpsels.] Hy‟s in die moeilikheid van die topstruktuur af

tot op grondvlak.



Hoekom is die ANC so bekommerd oor die protesoptogte op plaaslike

regeringsvlak, want die ANC het die kultuur van protes en

protesoptogte geskep? U het mos daardie kultuur geskep om as

instrument te dien sodat wanneer mense ontevrede is met hul

bestaande orde hul dit kan verander. Daarom is die mense op

grondvlak moeg en gekant daarteen om die bestaande orde op plaaslike

regeringsvlak te handhaaf.



Daar is net twee redes wat ek vinnig wil aanraak. Die redes waarom

dienslewering so swak is, is as gevolg van ‟n gebrek aan geld en ‟n

gebrek aan kundigheid. Hoekom is daar ‟n gebrek aan geld? Eerstens,

as gevolg van die buitengewone hoë salarisse vir burgemeesters,

munisipale bestuurders en topamptenare. Daar is burgemeesters wat

motiveer dat hul 4x4-voertuie nodig het, want die strate is so swak

in die woonbuurte dat hul nie met gewone motors daar kan ry nie,

maar hul verwag dat die mense wat daar woon met hul gewone motors

deur daardie strate moet ry.



Dít is die kern van die probleem. Die geld word bestee aan salarisse

en byvoordele, plaas daarvan dat dit bestee word aan dienslewering.

Die tweede aspek is die nie-betaling van dienstegelde. As mense nie

betaal vir hul dienste nie kan daar nie dienslewering wees nie.
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 117 OF 175

‟n Ander gebied waarop daar geld vermors word deur plaaslike

regerings is met naamveranderings. Miljoene rande word daaraan

bestee eerder as om dit te bestee aan behuising.

Laastens, daar was ‟n uittog van kundigheid uit plaaslike regerings

as gevolg van die … [Tussenwerpsels.] [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation

of Afrikaans speech follows.)



[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, the ANC is in trouble.

[Interjections.] It is in trouble from its top structure down to

grass-roots level.



Why is the ANC so concerned about the protest marches at local

government level when it was the ANC who created the culture of

protest and protest marches? Surely you created that culture to

serve as an instrument for people to use for changing the existing

order when they are dissatisfied with it. For this reason people at

grass-roots level are tired of and opposed to maintaining the

existing order at local government level.



There are two reasons I want to mention quickly. The reasons service

delivery is so poor are a lack of money and a lack of expertise. Why

is there a lack of money? Firstly, because of the exceptionally high

salaries that are being paid to mayors, municipal managers and top

officials. There are mayors who motivate their need for 4x4 vehicles

by saying that the streets in the townships are so poor that they

cannot drive there in ordinary motor vehicles, yet they expect the
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 118 OF 175

people who live there to drive through those streets in their

ordinary motor vehicles.



That is the root of the problem. The money is spent on salaries and

perks rather than on service delivery.



The second aspect is the nonpayment of service fees. If people do

not pay for their services, there cannot be service delivery.



Another area where money is wasted by local governments is on name

changes. Millions of rands are spent on this rather than on housing.



Lastly, there has been an exodus of expertise from local

authorities as a result of the … [Interjections.] [Time expired.]]



Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, in recent months and

weeks we have seen sporadic outbursts of marches and demonstrations

which the President characterised as posing no threat to the peace

and stability of the country. The marches are a sign of discontent

with nondelivery of services and a failure to fulfil unsolicited

promises made over the years.



The denial syndrome besetting some members of the ANC should be

shedded and replaced with candidness, as displayed by the hon

Mzondeki this afternoon. It is not unreasonable for people to rise

against those in power when, even after 10 years of promises of some
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 119 OF 175

utopia, they have to live with the stench of buckets of night soil

that are not collected regularly.



It is equally not unreasonable for people to call for the

resignation of municipal officials who do not serve the communities

as expected. It is not unreasonable for the people of Bokmakierie,

who were promised houses a decade ago, to take to the streets when

they realise that the Langa and Nyanga communities have jumped the

queue in being housed. Such marches are a result of frustration.



Tebello Motapanyane, one of the ringleaders of the 1976 June 16

uprisings, put it succinctly in the Sunday World of 12 June 2005

when he said, and I quote: “People will always rise against a system

that does not serve their interest”.



The establishment of Project Consolidate is a tacit admission by the

government that service delivery is lacking. The project has to pull

136 municipalities out of the doldrums. This is almost 50% of all

municipalities. If central government has had to come down to

intervene, it is foolish for anyone to pretend all is well in the

delivery of service.



The greatest challenge facing the government is a lack of officials

of substance. Those involved in the delivery should not pay lip-

service to sloganeering such as “Batho Pele, I am proud, I serve and

I care”. All of this is meaningless unless they are internalised.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 120 OF 175



We in the UCDP have never favoured marches because it is in their

very nature to end in destruction of property, injury to some and

even acts that lead to anarchy. Marches that are concomitant with

violence have been the trademark of the present government. It is

the ANC and its allies who have told people to march when they are

dissatisfied. The challenge for the government is to re-educate the

masses that there are other alternatives to follow.



Thlaloganyang bagaetsho gore molakgosi o a itaela. [Understand,

people, that if you teach someone something bad, he or she will

apply the same lesson to you.]



Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, we are all human and as humans we like

to see the good getting better. We have ignorant and blinded people

who disrupt our communities with ill-fed lies about our government.

The ignorant people often fall victim to opportunistic opposition

lies that this government is failing. We need to inform our

community that, firstly, we are a government for the people by the

people; secondly, our priority as Parliament is the people and,

thirdly, we have delivered and we are delivering.



Changes have seen great success in our 10 years. Unfortunately we

are still cleaning up the mess the apartheid regime caused and our

foreign debts have not made it easier on us. The strategy and

resources shall deliver upon our people‟s needs and I can go on and
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 121 OF 175

on. We have to reach out to our communities and show them our

progress. Members should be present in their constituencies. The

people need to know that they have made the right choices when they

voted. Their needs should be prioritised, delivery should be first

on our agenda and success should be our biggest aim.



We exist for the people and there is no gravy train. This train will

travel to all ends of South Africa and we will not stop until

poverty has been eradicated and every South African stands proud,

free and democratised. [Applause.]



Mr C T FROLICK: Chairperson and hon members, the first edition of

the SA Cities Network, published in 2004, noted the devastating

effect of apartheid policies on governance in South African cities.

While focusing on the type of city that prevailed in the

predemocratic order, the report states that –



A key challenge has been . . . in conflictual relations between

communities and municipalities, poor public participation, and

discord between and within communities . . .



Another problem was weak institutions of government. Despite

appearances –
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 122 OF 175

. . . that have been created of the order that existed in the

predemocratic city, municipalities were generally poorly structured,

undercapacitated and hugely inefficient.



Since the advent of democracy the ANC has laid the foundations for

local democracies, which culminated in the local government

elections of 2000. Despite the positive progress that has been made,

local authorities still carry the many marks of apartheid, while

facing new challenges resulting from the freedom of movement of

people, urbanisation, rapid settlement and institutional reform.



The challenge for provincial and local authorities was and still is

to provide housing and basic services to its citizens. Faced with

the huge backlogs in this field, provincial and local authorities

embarked on a range of methods and strategies to deal with these

local problems. For example, in the latest census the number of

informal settlements existing in the Nelson Mandela Metro was put at

60 000. Faced with competing priorities and having commenced from a

weak basis of financial sustainability, the odds are heavily stacked

against the eradication of housing backlogs in informal settlements.



It‟s against this background that the reasons for protests by

communities in the Free State, Eastern Cape and Western Cape must be

analysed. Certain projects could simply not be completed within the

anticipated timeframes, hence the dissatisfaction that arose within

certain communities.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 123 OF 175



The following constraints affecting the delivery of houses were

highlighted by local authorities that we visited: Firstly, there‟s

resistance by communities to relocate to new designated areas owing

to the unsuitability of the areas they currently occupy. For

example, in one instance the community is living on a hazardous

dumping site, which does not conform to health standards.



Secondly, we do have cases of beneficiaries who sell RDP houses to

foreigners and to other locals, and then they move on to informal

settlements, where once again they claim the right to a house.



Thirdly, projects approved by the provincial housing board without

prior consultation with the municipality on its state of readiness

is a source of concern. There‟s also the occurrence of blocked

projects, that is, projects which could not be completed owing to

community instability because of the escalation of the project

subsidy and the changing needs of the local community.



Lastly, projects were initially undertaken by private developers and

provincial authorities over which the municipality had no authority,

except for a land agreement that was in place. In my constituency,

the Nelson Mandela Metro, a dedicated housing division was only

established in August 2002. Prior to this, housing delivery was

implemented on an ad hoc basis by private developers, and staff
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 124 OF 175

whose primary responsibility was not housing delivery was

transferred to this department.



The metro acknowledged that as a result of these aforementioned

challenges and the utilisation of private contractors without

adequate supervision and control, the quality in certain instances

was compromised. Realising these challenges, the metro developed

various strategies to deal with the situation.



The strategy to date resulted in approximately 14 000 units being

built in the previous financial year. Staged payments were

introduced and in instances where such a stage had not been

completed or agreed quality standards not been met, no payment is

effected.



Agreements are also performance based and allows for the reduction

in the scope of work where clearly defined milestones are not met.

In addition, training programmes have been developed to assist

emerging contractors in various disciplines relating to construction

and administrative management. In terms of the IDP, the metro has

developed a 10-year housing delivery programme which guides the

planning and delivery of projects.



Now where do the protests come from? We do agree that residents in

areas such as KwaZakhele, Missionvale, Veeplaas, KwaNoxolo and

Motherwell have legitimate concerns. As a result, local communities
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 125 OF 175

were able to either mobilise themselves or allow themselves to be

mobilised around issues predominantly associated with housing

infrastructure.



From the outset the affected communities were very clear that the

protests were not directed against the ANC, but was rather against

processes associated with service delivery. The ANC recognised the

right of communities to embark on protest action. However, it must

be stated that we do not agree with actions undertaken by groups and

individuals who prove to be destructive and in certain instances

violent. These actions leave a lot to be desired and cannot be

condoned.



When engaging these communities, unlike members in the opposition

who, I doubt, ever visited the places where the unrest and upheavals

took place, they highlighted the following concerns. They

highlighted the nonapproval of housing projects for the next

financial year; projects that were not completed by the target date

set; poor workmanship and construction, resulting in cracked walls

and loose roofing materials.



However, this is not where it ended. Upon interacting in these

areas, we could sense that the genuine concerns of the communities

were systematically being hijacked by individuals who have come to

profile themselves as alternative candidates for the upcoming local

government elections by capitalising on the volatile issue of
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 126 OF 175

housing. Small groups began targeting informal areas and places

where delivery of housing and other services are problematic.



For instance, in other areas, such as in Extension 12, a DA

councillor came forward and started raising issues unrelated to

housing and basic services, which were the bone of contention.

Adding to the melting pot, the councillor said former members of the

National Council of the Leather Industry of SA complained about the

outsourcing of their provident fund to a private financial group and

called on the metro to investigate it, failing which they threatened

to burn tyres and barricade roads. Reactionaries from the opposition

and the media jumped at the opportunity to portray a picture of

large-scale chaos and crisis in townships, and likened it to the

scenes prevalent in war-torn Iraq.



The ANC leadership responded to these challenges by engaging the

local communities directly on finding solutions to these problems.

Contrary to the utterances by the opposition, not once was the local

ANC leadership in the area prevented from engaging the protesters

and moving into these areas. After a visit to the metro, the

provincial government made funding available to commence with the

implementation of delayed projects, and in order to avoid

unrealistic expectations, joint meetings were held between the

affected communities, the provincial government and local

councillors to discuss the timeframes and implementation of these

outstanding projects.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 127 OF 175



In order to avoid the reoccurrence of similar protest action,

attention should be given to the following: We do need to improve

communication between the provincial housing boards and departments,

the metro and communities on all issues affecting the delay on the

implementation and finalisation of announced projects. We also need

to create greater synergy between the work of provincial department

officials and of those in local government. Residents must be

encouraged to participate in community consultation processes such

as community development forums, the designing of IDPs, ward

committees, imbizos, etc. Lastly, allegations of corruption

involving officials, private developers, contractors, beneficiaries

and other stakeholders must be investigated and if necessary,

criminal charges must be laid against those who are implicated.



Ek sal my plig versuim indien ek nie reageer op ‟n basiese boodskap

wat deurgekom het vanaf die opposisie in die algemeen nie. Die

boodskap wat deurgekom het, is dat, soos die VF Plus gesê het, ons

in die moeilikheid is. Ons is geensins in die moeilikheid nie.

[Tussenwerpsels.] Ons teenwoordigheid in daardie gebiede het

duidelik geïllustreer dat daardie mense slegs in die ANC vertroue

het om hulle probleme aan te spreek. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die

verskillende opposisiepartye het gesidder en hulle het geskitter in

hulle afwesigheid in daardie gebiede. (Translation of Afrikaans

paragraph follows.)
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 128 OF 175

[I will be failing in my duty if I do not respond to a basic message

that came through from the opposition in general. The message that

came through is that, as the FF Plus said, we are in trouble. We are

by no means in trouble. [Interjections.] Our presence in those areas

clearly illustrated that those people trust only the ANC to address

their problems. [Interjections.] The different opposition parties

shuddered and they were conspicuous in their absence in those

areas.]



You see, comrades, when we go home to our constituencies, we go to

our constituencies to engage them. Unlike them, we don‟t go home to

go and sit and play with our cats and dogs and drink whiskey.

[Interjections.] We go to our people, we engage our people and we

know what needs to be done to satisfy the needs of our people.

[Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Debate concluded.



OVERSIGHT VISIT TO MILITARY ACADEMY AT SALDANHA



    (Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Defence)



Prof A K ASMAL: Mr Chairperson, hon members and comrades, the

President‟s statement to the joint Houses of Parliament was one of

the most important in the life of this Parliament. It is a pity,
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 129 OF 175

therefore, that we are trying the patience of hon members by having

this debate so late in the day, but it is an important one.



I am pleased to introduce this debate on the report prepared by the

Portfolio Committee on Defence, concerning the South African

Military Academy at Saldanha. One of the purposes is to give

priority to understanding what the military academy is. We visited

it on 19 January, and the report was tabled in Parliament on 14

April.



This institution, my brothers and sisters, is the primary training

facility for the SA National Defence Force officer corps. It is

pivotal for a country in our continent. So understand why we need to

consider briefly the context in which the Saldanha Military Academy

operates.



Our Constitution charges the SANDF with the defence of the Republic.

The SANDF is also called upon to play a more demanding role in

continental efforts to bring peace to Africa. Also, as you know, the

portfolio committee is assisting the Department of Defence in

reviewing the White Paper of 1986 and the needs of the Defence Force

of 1998.



Therefore, it‟s a good time to look at what is called, dismissively,

“human resource development”, which I don‟t really understand. What

we need, therefore, is an officer corps that embraces our democratic
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 130 OF 175

Constitution; that has superior training, and the utmost flexibility

to operate in a very challenging epoch; an officer corps with high

level of intellectual and military skills, and an officer corps

sensitive to a range of cultural, social, psychological factors in

relation to subordinates and in the field of operations, as we know,

in the rest of Africa.



The committee‟s report, therefore, proceeds from the premise that

South Africa needs a first-class centre for training our officer

corps, a centre that can become the primary officer training school

for the entire African continent. Why should we send our people to

Sancerre? Why should we send them to Sandhurst? Why should we send

them to West Point? We should be doing it here in South Africa.



The committee‟s report is the first of its kind on the academy. The

report notes that there are a great many people associated with the

academy. Officers, the military, faculty, staff and students are

determined to transform this institution, which we all know was once

a vital cog in the apartheid machinery. Don‟t worry about the high

standards before 1994. They were the standards of an apartheid

system.



So, going forward, a major effort to transform this institution can

and must be built on this goodwill that exists. Only a co-operative

effort, drawing on all the tendencies and factors, will achieve the

objective of renewal and transformation.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 131 OF 175



Our report finds that today – I commend this report, it is in the

library – there is a need to review, urgently, the role of the

academy at nearly every level. This institution must measure up to

the standards the democratic South Africa demands.



The report finds that the academy has reached a critical turning

point. Our findings, of which there are 20, include the following:

First of all, there is confusion over the core business of the

institution. It must be understood that the Academy is unique,

serving a dual role – one is academic, as part of the University of

Stellenbosch; the other military, as a unit of the SANDF. However,

the academic balance has not been adequately struck. The academy

cannot be run on a strictly military basis. It is a staff training

college, not a military finishing school. They can do that somewhere

else. There are worrying signs that the academic imperative is being

pushed aside.



Secondly, there are lengthy delays in the filling of academic posts.

Twenty-one such positions were vacant when we wrote our report. In

some cases, this has been rationalised with the argument that there

were no black candidates available to fill such positions. While

such action may appear justified in the name of improving

representivity, this is not the case. In fact, such delays only harm

staff and students. We all know – and I knew this as the Minister of

Education – that to mentor black academics is a long-term prospect.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 132 OF 175



The universities have found that you have to put in money, capacity,

time and, most important of all, effort. This requires a conscious,

deliberate approach.



Thirdly, there has been some progress with regard to representivity,

but the academy must, as a matter of urgency, implement a staff

development programme that includes systematic and systemic

mentoring. In the meantime, the appointment of staff must adhere to

the procedure laid down in the agreement with the University of

Stellenbosch. The committee is not very happy that this agreement is

not always being adhered to.



Next, transformation is not limited to numbers and representivity,

but transformation is also about embracing an ethos and value

reflecting an entirely different set of assumptions to those held

under apartheid, including openness, recognition of cultural

diversity in the training of our people, and the inculcation of an

African view of the world in the context of our own national

identity. The institution must therefore inculcate such a world

outlook.



Another point is that the curriculum does not reflect the changing

nature of Africa or of the world. The balance does not serve the

broad needs of the contemporary African officer corps. While an

impressive list of technical subjects is covered, there is
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 133 OF 175

insufficient grounding in the humanities. More importantly, the

Constitution is not given the pride of place it should have in the

curriculum for the training of our officer corps. Our officers must

live permanently the values enshrined in our Constitution.



Yet another point is that the academy appears to be underfunded. The

library is a shambles with too few books, journals and computers.

Some barracks are in poor repair. Recreational facilities are

inadequate. Most students do not come from the Western Cape, so they

can‟t go home over the weekends. Leisure-time facilities are of

vital importance, especially over the weekends. The conditions which

exist there are not very hospitable.



Finally, the procedure for reporting sexual harassment is inadequate

and in need of urgent attention. Nearly every military academy

throughout the world has faced serious problems of sexual

harassment. Some of them have been scandalous, and this required

corrective action. Saldanha can then, if it has the proper

structures, avert such a situation.



First among the list of 20 recommendations is that the committee

proposes a closer investigation of the academy‟s output along with

consideration as to how to create the most cost-effective model that

will serve all the branches of the SANDF.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 134 OF 175

The academy, the Department of Defence and the University of

Stellenbosch need to settle on a firm definition of the academy‟s

core business and explore the kind of leadership best suited to

moving forward. Among other things, there should be greater

interplay between the faculty and the military, and confidence-

building measures should be undertaken urgently.



In general, we feel that the primacy of academic values must be

asserted in the academy. This is the key to producing the kind of

officers needed by the SANDF – officers capable of serving the

continent in a new era.



I should note for purposes of this debate that the portfolio

committee‟s oversight report does not attempt to duplicate the work

of the Board of Inquiry appointed by the Minister of Defence last

year, which is examining allegations of racism and violence at the

military academy. It wasn‟t our function to do that.



We have submitted our report to both the academy and the Minister of

Defence, and the committee looks forward to their response. Hon

members, you may think that after the epochal speech by the

President, this is an example of bathos. Well, it‟s not really

bathos. [Interjections.] It is central to how we see the development

of the SA National Defence Force, which is part of the pivot of our

policy in Africa and at home.
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 135 OF 175

South Africa has an extremely important opportunity to lead by

creating a truly African training institute and, as such, the

matters we debate today are of continental importance not only to

South Africa but also to the rest of Africa. Thank you very much.

[Applause.]



Moulana M R SAYEDALI-SHAH: Chairperson, the SA Military Academy, as

an institution, plays a vital role in assisting the SA National

Defence Force to fulfil its constitutional obligations in terms of

defending and protecting the republic, its territorial integrity and

its people. It is tasked with the education and training of the

officer corps of the SANDF. It is therefore imperative that the

members of the officer corps leave the military academy fully

prepared and adequately equipped to deal with, and respond to, the

various security challenges of the 21st century.



We need officers who are in tune with what is expected of them

within the SANDF as well as the regional, continental and global

environment. Unfortunately, the manner in which the military academy

is being run suggests that it is failing in its duty to equip the

officer corps with the necessary intellectual and military skills

required to meet the current and future political, economic and

military challenges. Furthermore, South Africa currently plays an

important role in trying to bring peace and security, development

and prosperity to the African continent.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 136 OF 175

If properly managed and supported, I believe that the SA Military

Academy can help this process through making a significant

contribution by attracting and training young officers from various

parts of the African continent who may, on return to their

respective countries, contribute towards the establishment of peace

and security, which is so vital for the economic growth and

development of Africa.



This report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence must be taken

seriously. The various issues raised, the findings and the

recommendations made are critical and deserve the urgent attention

of the Department of Defence. They include issues surrounding

transformation, the respective roles and the relationship between

the University of Stellenbosch and the military academy, lack of

funding, deteriorating infrastructure and, crucially, issues of

mismanagement too.



Amongst the many, the following are but some of the important

recommendations of the committee that deserve immediate attention

and you have heard some of those recommendations from the hon

chairperson. I would like to reiterate that there must be a close

investigation of the quality of the military academy‟s output along

with consideration of how to create the most cost-effective model,

as you heard the chairperson say.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 137 OF 175

The agreement between the Department of Defence and Stellenbosch

University establishes a joint committee which advises on a range of

matters. It‟s not mandated to meet on a frequent basis. The

committee feels that this body‟s work should either be expanded or

that a joint board of study should be established and be chaired by

the dean, with participation by the commandant who handles all

academic matters.



But, more importantly, the thing that came out during our visit was

that the dean was insecure. We feel that he should be given security

of tenure. Currently, he has a two-year contract, unlike the

standard five-year contract, and, shockingly, he doesn‟t have the

adequate support staff necessary to carry out his duties.



The curriculum should be carefully reviewed and improved. In the

interest of academic excellence, the system of paying lecturers

according to SANDF salary scales should be terminated. At present,

the Department of Defence is responsible for remuneration of

academic personnel. It is very difficult to maintain quality when

salary scales are so low. The fact is that the academy has to

compete against other universities and the private sector, and it

needs to be resourced appropriately. Many qualified people have left

this institution.



At the time of our visit in April 2005, as you heard our chairperson

say, a total of 21 posts were vacant and many of them had been
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 138 OF 175

vacant for a long time. Of great concern is the fact that some of

these positions had not been filled simply because there were no

qualified black candidates available to fill them. I feel that any

delay in filling these vacant posts is bound to have a demoralising

effect on the academy as a whole.



The report makes some very critical and important pertinent

recommendations. There must be no further postponement of the

filling of posts. Students suffer as a result of these delays. These

vacancies should be advertised and filled within three months, at

the latest. Currently, the funding levels, too, are very much

inadequate. Consideration should be given to the Department of

Education funding, through the block grant, in order to supplement

the Department of Defence‟s allocation for higher education.



It is therefore the intention of our committee to interact regularly

with the military academy, the university and the Department of

Defence in order to help address the many concerns raised during our

visit as well as funding and other challenges facing the academy.



I wish to take this opportunity to frankly express my pleasure in

seeing such a detailed and comprehensive report. Honestly speaking,

it is a true report written without any political bias whatsoever

and reflects the views of all members of the Portfolio Committee on

Defence across the political divide.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 139 OF 175

In conclusion, I wish to compliment and thank Prof Asmal, the

chairperson of the parliamentary committee on defence, for the

diligent manner in which he leads us in the conduct of our business

and our oversight functions. To all hon members of the committee, I

continuously look forward to working with you for the betterment,

and in the national interest, of our country. I thank you.

[Applause.]



Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, hon members, somebody on the left of

the waiting seat said to me just now, “You were not in Saldanha

Bay.” That is correct. I certainly did not represent the party or

Parliament at Saldanha Bay. So, in the interest of time, I will be

brief.



The member of the IFP who was the representative informed us that,

in fact, he felt that there wasn‟t a need for a debate on this

report simply because it was a report that reflected the views of

all parties, and it is an excellent report. We, too, would commend

the chairperson for that report and we would like to agree with the

comments in that report.



There are, obviously, a number of grave concerns and issues that

have been raised, and we would hope that these would be dealt with

in due course. So, as I said to you, I hope, in the interest of time

and if everybody else follows suit, we will be able to get away from

here a little earlier. We support the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 140 OF 175



Mr O E MONARENG: Hon Chair, hon members, allow me the opportunity to

inform this august House about the visit to the military academy in

Saldanha Bay. The visit assisted the committee to map out the way

forward in order to assist the academy to acquire new values and an

ethos that will go a long way in the inculcation of new standards

that will have effect on excellency, efficiency and professionalism.



The desire by the portfolio committee to maintain a balance between

education and training is very important. Our desire to ensure good

leadership qualities, which will in turn enhance the transformation

process, can best be achieved if we consciously ensure that, and I

quote:



 South Africa‟s transition from apartheid and minority rule to

 democracy requires that existing practices, institutions and

 values are viewed anew and rethought in terms of their fitness for

 the new era. Higher education plays a central role in the social,

 cultural and economic development of modern societies.



 In South Africa today, the challenge is to redress past

 inequalities and to transform higher education to serve a new

 social order, to meet pressing national needs and to respond to

 the new realities and opportunities. It must lay the foundations

 for the development of a learning society which can stimulate,

 direct and mobilise the creative and intellectual energies of all
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 141 OF 175

 people towards meeting the challenge of reconstruction and

 development.



While at the academy, the committee was reliably informed about the

tension that exists between the academy and the military. We have,

after very careful consideration, resorted to the following

regarding key issues. The academy has reached a critical turning

point. There is confusion over the core business of the academy and

the appropriate academic balance has not been adequately struck - I

think Comrade Prof Kader has raised that point.



A rehabilitative process needs to be initiated that will involve the

academy‟s management, the Department of Defence and the University

of Stellenbosch. Such an approach will have to examine the required

leadership qualifications for the academy, appropriate funding

levels and the need to upgrade curriculum development. This process

must also examine the output of the academy and find a cost-

effective model that will serve the long-term needs of the four arms

of the SA National Defence Force.



The academy should not be run on a strictly militaristic basis. I

think that is a point for emphasis. It is a staff training college

and not a military finishing school. I am sure that the professor

made this point. Be that as it may, a fair balance should be struck

between military discipline and training, which is by and large the

business of the academy.
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 142 OF 175



To move a bit further regarding today‟s topic, 14th June is the same

day on which the South African forces of doom, destruction and

mayhem invaded Botswana to kill 12 innocent people, five of whom

were South Africans and seven Botswana nationals, under the pretence

of going there to exterminate terrorists in 1985. This incident was

certainly one of the many through which the then regime and its

force of aggression, the then SA Defence Force, launched a total

onslaught against so-called communists.



This incident should be a reminder to those tutors and lecturers of

the military academy that the past will be remembered for its

destruction and mayhem. As such a past is attributed to the

conscious and calculated teaching . . .



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order! Hon member, your

time has expired.



Mr O E MONARENG: Thank you very much. [Applause.]



Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Geagte Voorsitter, ek stem nie baie maklik saam

met ‟n verslag van die ANC nie, maar wat hierdie verslag betref stem

ek 100% saam, en die VF Plus steun hierdie verslag. Ek dink dit is

miskien omdat die voorsitter, die agb Prof Kadar Asmal, meer deur sy

akademiese bril gekyk het, na ‟n akademiese instelling, as deur sy

politieke bril. Ek wil hom daarvoor bedank.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 143 OF 175

Daar is verskeie aanbevelings gemaak in hierdie verslag, maar die

uitdaging van hierdie verslag en aanbevelings gaan wees of dit

geïmplimenteer gaan word. Ons keur vandag hier in die Nasionale

Vergadering hierdie verslag goed, maar die vraag gaan nog steeds

wees of dit in die praktyk ook deurgevoer gaan word.



Daar is twee belangrike aspekte: eerstens, die beperkinge op die

begroting van die militêre akademie. Wat ontstellend is, is dat ten

spyte daarvan dat die verslag oorhandig is aan die Departement van

Verdediging, dit ook nou na vore getree het dat die huidige

begroting van die militêre akademie met ‟n verdere 40% gesny is. Ek

kan nie verstaan dat dit toegelaat word nie. Dit is onaanvaarbaar.

Daar is beperkinge, maar steeds word 40% op die begroting gesny.



Die tweede aspek is die doserende personeel. Daar is daarna verwys

deur vorige sprekers. Die dosente moet nou dubbeld klas gee, hulle

moet dubbel voorberei, hulle moet selfs in vakke wat nie hul

vakgebied is nie klasgee. Net om vir u ‟n idee te gee: uit die 21

vakante poste is 12 poste in militêre wetenskappe. Dit is doserende

poste wat nie gevul is nie.



Die uitdaging gaan wees om te kyk of dit wel binne drie maande gevul

gaan word. Ek wil ‟n beroep doen op die agb voorsitter, Prof Asmal,

en op die Komitee op Verdediging - waarvan ek self lid is - dat ons

sal toesien dat hierdie verslag in die praktyk deurgevoer word, want

dan sal die Militêre Akadamie ‟n beter akademie wees tot voordeel
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 144 OF 175

van die verdediging van die hele land Suid-Afrika. Ek dank u.

(Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)



[Mr P J GROENEWALD:   Hon Chairperson, usually I do not very readily

agree with a report from the ANC, but as far as this report is

concerned, I agree with it 100%, and the FF Plus supports this

report. I think it might be because the chairperson, the hon Prof

Kader Asmal, viewed an academic institution more from an academic

perspective than from a political one. I wish to thank him for that.



Various recommendations were made in this report, but the challenge

of this report and recommendations will be whether they will be

implemented. Today in this National Assembly we are in favour of

this report, but the question remains whether it will be carried out

in practice.



There are two important aspects: firstly, the limitations on the

budget of the Military Academy. It is disconcerting that, in spite

of the fact that the report was handed over to the Department of

Defence, it has also become evident that the current budget of the

Military Academy has been cut by a further 40%. I cannot understand

that this is allowed to happen. It is unacceptable. There are

limitations, but the budget is still cut by 40%.



The second aspect relates to the academic staff. Previous speakers

referred to this issue. The tutors must now teach twice as many
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 145 OF 175

classes, they must prepare twice as much and they must even teach

subjects that are not in their field of study. Just to give you an

idea: 12 of the 21 vacant posts occur within military science. Those

are teaching posts that have not been filled.



The challenge will be to see whether they can actually be filled

within three months. I want to appeal to the hon chairperson, Prof

Asmal, and the Committee on Defence – of which I am a member – for

us to ensure that this report is implemented in practice, because

then the Military Academy will be a better academy to the benefit of

the whole country of South Africa. I thank you.]



Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF acknowledges and applauds the

important role served by the SA National Defence Force. We extend

our sincere gratitude to all these men and women who put their lives

at risk to serve us as a nation. The objectives of the report

display the committee‟s intent to oversee whether the SANDF is in

line with the democratic values of our country, its level and

standard of operations, skills, qualification and relations. These

are all issues of concern in this Defence Force.



The MF acknowledges the content of our Defence Force under the

apartheid regime and the metamorphosis it has undergone since our

democracy. However, we acknowledge that loopholes still exist, and

this needs to be addressed in all earnest.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 146 OF 175

From the meeting convened by this department, with various

stakeholders, in educating members of the SANDF, it is evident that

a number of issues need to be addressed. Considering the importance

of the role played by the SANDF, the MF finds it crucial to uphold a

high standard and feels that steps should be taken to remove the

loopholes in the system in order to ensure effective, efficient and

quality defence of South Africa.



The MF also commends the chairperson of the portfolio committee on

the efficient manner in which he conducts his meetings. While I have

a few seconds, may I also make it clear that, as a member of this

august House, whether you are in that committee or not, you have the

democratic right to take part in the debates. Thank you very much.



Mr M S BOOI: Chair and members, it is a pity that hon Groenewald has

left the House because it means that the type of education we would

have loved to provide him with, and the type of understanding we

would have loved to show him, is lost. But while we say that, we

want to add our voices to every one else‟s by saying that the

chairperson has done a very good job by being able to get us to

focus on real issues that are affecting Defence.



The Military Academy is one of those issues. It is a crucial

institution in our democracy, one that is well equipped and one that

also produces the necessary skills. The performance of our soldiers
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 147 OF 175

in the peacekeeping missions shows that a good job is being done

there. We need to be able to build on it.



What should be appreciated by Mr Groenewald is the type of shaping

and thinking that is happening within the committee. We give input

and try to direct and assist the resources of the department, which

is standing at a very important and fundamental point.



As the ANC we are showing appreciation for the work done by the

Defence Force, and the changes that are beginning to take place.

Without lying and without praising the chairperson, he is assisting

us to reflect on how to improve the Defence Force, and he is

assisting the department in its responsibilities.



We won‟t just call blindly for an increase of the budget of the

Defence Force without us understanding what the necessities guiding

that particular budget are, but the military academy is one of those

necessary institutions.



That is why we are providing a report to Parliament. We are

beginning to identify and say that the military academy has to be

able to be placed and it must be given the necessary budget. It is

the ANC‟s understanding and campaigning that this type of

development has to take place.
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 148 OF 175

Some recommendation and issues have been raised regarding the things

that we are faced with in the military academy. One of them is the

ambiguity of how we are beginning to see the threat. As we have said

and continue to say, since the establishment of the academy in 1950

people have always been offering their own curriculum on the basis

of which threat South Africa has to face at that stage.



At this particular stage of development, and within the relationship

with the University of Stellenbosch, at least the professors will

start to assist us to influence their curriculum.



The issues of peacekeeping and of retraining of young people to

produce intellectuals that are going to be able to assist in the

production of good soldiers are some of the basic things.



If good leadership could be produced within that particular academy,

it could have an impact on society. They would be able to assist us

to turn around the lives of young people. That is the challenge that

we would love the academy to take up.



We want the academy to reflect the issues of nation-building. This

is the type of young person that the academy must be able to

produce. If you are a soldier, you have the serious responsibility

of being able to defend society and be able to use a gun. It really

depends on how your personality, your emotions and attitude are

being shaped.
14 JUNE 2005                                 PAGE: 149 OF 175



We are saying from our side that in the short period that we have

been in government, and the way in which we have been able to

conduct that academy, the allegations that are being made regarding

the role they are playing in the peacekeeping mission, do not

include any accusations that they have lost control of their

emotions and started to shoot randomly. We have found very

disciplined soldiers who are conducting themselves very well.



Sexual offences and sexual behaviour are some of the issues that we

think are a challenge to us. The recruitment of women within the

SANDF is a very slow process, and sometimes people tend not to

understand or know how to behave when they see … [Time expired.]



Debate concluded.



The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chairperson, I

move that the report be adopted.



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.



The House adjourned at 18:03.

                                __________
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 150 OF 175

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS



                        THURSDAY, 9 JUNE 2005



ANNOUNCEMENTS



National Assembly



1.   Messages from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly

     in respect of Bills passed by Council and transmitted to

     Assembly



     (1) Bill, subject to proposed amendment, passed by National

        Council of Provinces on 9 June 2005 and transmitted for

        consideration of Council‟s proposed amendment:



        (i) National Ports Bill [B 5D – 2003] (National Assembly –

            sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see Announcements,

            Tablings and Committee Reports, 27 May 2005, p 1072)



        The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on

        Transport of the National Assembly for a report on the

        amendment proposed by the Council.



COMMITTEE REPORTS
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 151 OF 175

National Assembly



1.   Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and

     Tourism on Oversight Visit to Irvine & Johnson Ltd, dated 31 May

     2005:



1.   BACKGROUND



     As part of conducting oversight and monitoring over the status of

     Fishing Industries in South Africa, a multi-party delegation of

     the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism,

     visited Irvine & Johnson Ltd in Waterfront and Woodstock, Cape

     Town on the 28th of April 2005.



1.1 OBJECTIVE



     The main objective of the oversight visit was to assess and

     monitor the progress made in respect of transformation,

     environmental management and, business operations related to

     fishing products, fishing plant processing and storage.



1.2 DELEGATION



     A multi-party delegation from the Portfolio Committee under the

     leadership of Ms E Thabethe (ANC) included Ms R Ndzanga (ANC), Ms

     MM Ntuli (ANC), Ms N Khunuo (ANC), Mr. M I Moss (ANC), Mr. J Maja
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 152 OF 175

     (ANC), Mr. DAA Olifant (ANC), Mr. A Mokoena (ANC), Mr. J Arendse

     (ANC), Ms C Zikalala (IFP) and Committee Secretary Mr M Manele.

2.   REPORTING



     Having conducted its oversight to I&J Ltd on the 28th of April

     2005, the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and

     Tourism wishes to report as follows:



3.   INTRODUCTION



     Upon arrival the Chairperson, Prof Brian Figaji, welcomed the

     delegation of the Committee and later outlined the programme of

     the visit.



3.1. BRIEFING ON BUSINESS OPERATIONS



     The Managing Director, Mr. MO Kajee, assisted by Mr. Phillip

     Bruwer, Director of Fishing Unit and, Mr. Suleiman Salie,

     Director of Processing Unit, briefed the delegation on business

     operations. The briefing focused on corporate overview, ownership

     and joint ventures, skills development, social investment and

     enterprise development, and on-sight visit to fishing plant.



3.1.1.     CORPORATE OVERVIEW
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 153 OF 175

   I&J Ltd is principally engaged in the procurement and marketing

   of frozen foods. The company operates as one of the largest

   fishing fleets in the southern hemisphere, procuring and

   processing fish at sea as well as at a number of factories in

   Cape Town, Mossel Bay and Hermanus. It has its own research and

   development resource consisting of internationally trained food

   technologists and home economists keeping abreast of latest

   international trends and carrying out in-house development work

   for both local and international markets.



   In addition to research and development capability, it has fish

   processing plant at Woodstock that produces about 100 different

   frozen fish products using hake as the base raw material. Also,

   it manufactures a range of processed; value added beef and

   chicken products to both the retail and food service markets.



3.1.2.   OWNERSHIP AND JOINT VENTURES



   The company‟s ownership is in the hands of Anglovaal Industries

   Limited, listed on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange in the

   industrial Food Sector, which hold 80% with the balance being

   held by three strategic empowerment partners such as Sipumelele

   Investment Limited, Ntshonalanga Consortium Limited and Dyambu

   Holdings.



3.1.3.   SKILLS DEVELOPMENT
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 154 OF 175



     Its skills development program involves 2.7% of payroll spend on

     training and development and, 74.5% of a total workforce

     receiving ongoing training and development. An average number of

     employees trained per annum totaled 2 035 and skills levies paid

     to the Department of Labour amounting to R2m.



3.1.4.     SOCIAL INVESTMENT AND ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT



     Its social investment programme involves health, welfare and

     children‟s education, welfare of aged people, feeding schemes and

     poverty alleviation projects in the community. On the other hand,

     its enterprise development programme involves a joint partnership

     ventures with Umsobomvu Youth Fund, Squid Operation in Port

     Elizabeth as well as Hake Operation in the Western Cape.



4.   ON SITE TOUR TO FISHING PLANT



     During the on site tour, the delegation observed how fishing

     products such as fish fingers, battered portions, fish cakes,

     marinates, egg-coated natural fillets, fish burgers, fish and

     fish snacks are processed, packaged and stored at the operation

     and plant levels by the employees.



5.   CONCLUSION AND RECOMMENDATION
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 155 OF 175

     Having conducted an oversight visit to I&J Holding Ltd, the

     Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism,

     concludes and recommends as follows:

     Noting the progress made in respect of ownership and joint

     ventures, it is recommended that I&J Ltd should brief members on

     mechanisms that would be put in place within the Department of

     Training and Industry Black Economic Empowerment scorecard, to

     accelerate transformation targets in terms of ownership,

     strategic representation, employment equity, preferential

     procurement and enterprise development.



                         FRIDAY, 10 JUNE 2005



ANNOUNCEMENTS



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces



1.   Introduction of Bills



     (1) The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs



         (i) South African Abattoir Corporation Act Repeal Bill [B 21

            – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75) [Explanatory summary

            of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in

            Government Gazette No 27670 of 10 June 2005.]
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 156 OF 175

         Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on

         Agriculture and Land Affairs of the National Assembly, as

         well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for

         classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 13 June 2005.



         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the

         classification of the Bill may be submitted to the Joint

         Tagging Mechanism (JTM) within three parliamentary working

         days.



National Assembly



1.   Referrals to committees of papers tabled



     The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the

     relevant committees as mentioned below:



     (1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee

         on Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration

         and report:



        (a)   Report on the provisional suspension from office of

              senior magistrate Mr S E Tebe.



        (b)   Report on the provisional suspension from office of

              magistrate Mr L D Monageng.
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 157 OF 175



   (2) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Trade and Industry:



      (a)   Government Notice No R.1342 published in Government

            Gazette No 26994 dated 12 November 2004: National

            Gambling Regulations in terms of section 87 read with

            Item 8 of the Schedule to the National Gambling Act,

            2004 (Act No 7 of 2004).



      (b)   Government Notice No R.1311 published in Government

            Gazette No 26962 dated 12 November 2004: Standards

            Matters in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29

            of 1993).



      (c)   Government Notice No R.1315 published in Government

            Gazette No 26962 dated 12 November 2004: Standards

            Matters in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29

            of 1993).



      (d)   Government Notice No R.1397 published in Government

            Gazette No 27038 dated 3 December 2004: Strategic

            Industrial Project (SIP): Notice in terms of section

            12G(16) d of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of

            1962).
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 158 OF 175

      (e)   Government Notice No R.1398 published in Government

            Gazette No 27038 dated 3 December 2004: Strategic

            Industrial Project (SIP): Notice in terms of section

            12G(16) d of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of

            1962).



      (f)   Government Notice No R.1399 published in Government

            Gazette No 27038 dated 3 December 2004: Strategic

            Industrial Project (SIP): Notice in terms of section

            12G(16) d of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of

            1962).



      (g)   Government Notice No R.1441 published in Government

            Gazette No 27097 dated 17 December 2004: Strategic

            Industrial Project (SIP): Notice in terms of section

            12G(16) d of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of

            1962).



      (h)   Government Notice No R.1442 published in Government

            Gazette No 27097 dated 17 December 2004: Strategic

            Industrial Project (SIP): Notice in terms of section

            12G(16) d of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of

            1962).



      (i)   Proclamation No R.2 published in Government Gazette No

            27157 dated 14 January 2005: Transfer of the
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 159 OF 175

            administration of the Co-operatives Act, 1981 (Act No 91

            0f 1981), from the Minister of Agriculture to the

            Minister of Trade and Industry in terms of the

            Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996 (Act

            No 108 of 1996).



      (j)   Government Notice No R.133 published in Government

            Gazette No 27269 dated 18 February 2005: National

            Measuring Standards in terms of the Measuring Units and

            National Measuring Standards Act, 1973 (Act No 76 of

            1973).



      (k)   Government Notice No R.134 published in Government

            Gazette No 27269 dated 18 February 2005: Regulations

            relating to the payment of levy and the issues of sales

            permits with regard to compulsory specifications:

            Amendment in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29

            of 1993).



      (l)   Government Notice No R.140 published in Government

            Gazette No 27269 dated 18 February 2005: Regulations

            relating to the payment of levy and the issues of sales

            permits with regard to compulsory specifications:

            Amendment in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29

            of 1993).
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 160 OF 175

      (m)   Government Notice No R.168 published in Government

            Gazette No 27269 dated 4 March 2005 Standards Matters in

            terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).



   (3) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Finance:



      (a)   Government Notice No 365 published in Government Gazette

            No 27487 dated 14 April 2005: Framework for Conditional

            Grants to Provinces in terms of Division of Revenue Act,

            2005 (Act No 1 of 2005).



      (b)   Government Notice No 868 published in Government Gazette

            No 27636 dated 30 May 2005: Municipal Supply Chain

            Management Regulations in terms of the Local Government:

            Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No 56 of

            2003).



   (4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Agriculture and Land Affairs for consideration:



      Report and Financial Statements of the Commission on

      Restitution of Land Rights for 2004 - 2005 [RP 49-2005].



   (5) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Provincial and Local Government for consideration:
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 161 OF 175

      Strategic Plan of the Department of Provincial and Local

      Government for 2005 to 2010.



   (6) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Safety and Security:



      Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South

      Africa and the Government of Bulgaria on Police Cooperation,

      tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996

      (Act No 108 of 1996).



   (7) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Water Affairs and Forestry:



      (a)   Government Notice No 323 published in Government Gazette

            No 27434 dated 8 April 2005: Establishment of the Spruit

            River Water User Association, Division of Wellington,

            Province of the Western Cape, Water Management Area

            Number 19 in terms of the National; Water Act, 1998 (Act

            No 36 of 1998).



      (b)   Government Notice No 324 published in Government Gazette

            No 27434 dated 8 April 2005: Establishment of the

            uPhongolo Dam Water User Association, Magisterial

            Districts of Ingwavuma, Ubombo, Ngotshe and Piet Retief,

            KwaZulu-Natal Province, Water Management Area Number 6
14 JUNE 2005                            PAGE: 162 OF 175

            in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of

            1998)



      (c)   Government Notice No 458 published in Government Gazette

            No 27579 dated 20 May 2005: Establishment of the

            Houdenbeks River Water User Association, Division of

            Ceres, Province of the Western Cape, Water Management

            Area Number 17 in terms of the National Water Act, 1998

            (Act No 36 of 1998).



      (d)   Government Notice No 482 published in Government Gazette

            No 27459 dated 20 May 2005: Proposal for the

            Establishment of the Thukela Catchment Management Agency

            in terms of section 78(3) of the National Water Act,

            1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).



      (e)   Government Notice No 483 published in Government Gazette

            No 27604 dated 20 May 1998: Proposal for the

            Establishment of the Usutu to Mhlathuze Catchment

            Management Agency in terms of section 78(3) of the

            National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).



      (f)   Government Notice No 484 published in Government Gazette

            No 27604 dated 20 May 2005: Establishment of the Mvoti

            to Mzimkulu Catchment Management Agency (Water

            Management Area Number 11) in the Province of KwaZulu-
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 163 OF 175

            Natal in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No

            36 of 1998).



   (8) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Defence and to the Joint Standing Committee on Defence:



      The Acting President of the Republic submitted a letter

      dated 27 January 2005 to the Speaker of the National

      Assembly informing Members of the National Assembly of the

      employment of the South African National Defence Force in

      Botswana.



   (9) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee

      on Correctional Services for consideration:



      Report of the Judicial Inspectorate of Prisons for 2004-

      2005.



   (10)   The following papers are referred to the Portfolio

          Committee on Science and Technology for consideration and

          report:



      (a)   Statute of the Centre for Science and Technology of the

            Non-Aligned Movement and Other Developing Countries,

            tabled on terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution,

            1996.
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 164 OF 175

        (b)   Explanatory Memorandum on the Statute of the Centre for

              Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned Movement and

              Other Developing Countries.



TABLINGS



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces



1.   The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development



     Report on the withholding of remuneration of Mr H W Moldenhauer,

     Chief Magistrate, Pretoria, tabled in terms of section 13(4A)(b)

     of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).



2.   The Minister for Safety and Security



     Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the

     Republic of South Africa and the African Union Contributing South

     African Police Service Monitors to the Civilian Police Component

     of the African Union Mission in the Darfur Region of the Republic

     of Sudan (AMIS), tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the

     Constitution, 1996.



COMMITTEE REPORTS



National Assembly
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 165 OF 175

1.   Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and

     Tourism on Participation in World Conservation Congress held in

     Bangkok, Thailand, 17–25 November 2004, under the Theme “People

     and Nature-Only World”, dated 7 June 2005:



1.   BACKGROUND



     Members of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and

     Tourism and Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs

     were invited by the President, Yolanda Kakabadse and Director

     General, Mr. Achim Steiner of the world conservation union to

     attend the 3rd IUCN World Conservation Congress to be hosted by

     the Kingdom of Thailand in Bangkok from the 17th to the 25th

     November 2004. In response to the invitation, a delegation of

     five members, three from the Portfolio Committee on Environmental

     Affairs and Tourism, and two from the Select Committee on Land

     and Environmental Affairs were granted permission to attend the

     proceedings of the Congress.



     Having participated in lobbying for Mr. Valli Moosa for the

     Presidency of the International World Conservation Union and in

     the six commissions of the world conservation congress dealing

     with ecosystem management, education and communication,

     environmental, economic and social policy, environmental law,

     species survival and protected areas, the delegation of the
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 166 OF 175

   portfolio committee and select committee report to the national

   assembly and national council of provinces as follows:



1.1. CONGRESS OBJECTIVES

1.1.1.      Explore the relationships between people, development and

       conservation through its four themes: Ecosystem management,

       Bridging sustainability and productivity; Health, Poverty and

       Conservation - Responding to the challenge of human well-being;

       Biodiversity Loss and Species Extinction - Managing risk in a

       changing world; and Markets, Business and the Environment -

       Strengthening corporate social responsibility, law and policy;

1.1.2.      Approve the 2005 / 2008 IUCN Programme and Financial Plan;

1.1.3.      Elect the President of the World Conservation Union and

       other officers;

1.1.4.      Table the Commission‟s reports for 2003/04 on ecosystem

       management, education and communication, environmental,

       economic and social policy, environmental law, species survival

       and world commission on protected areas; and

1.1.5.      Consider motions and adopt resolutions at plenary level.



1.2.        DELEGATION OF THE COMMITTEES

   A joint delegation of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental

   Affairs and Tourism and Select Committee on Land and

   Environmental Affairs constituted of the Ms E Thabethe, (ANC-NA)

   Ms MM Ntuli (ANC-NA), Mr. G Morgan (DA-NA), Rev P Moatshe (ANC-
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 167 OF 175

     NCOP) Mr. P Adams (NNP-NCOP) and Committee Secretary, Mr. M

     Manele.



2.   ELECTION OF MR VALLI MOOSA AS PRESIDENT OF WORLD CONSERVATION

     UNION



     As one of the objectives of the IUCN Congress was to elect the

     President and other office bearers, the delegation of the

     Portfolio Committee and the Select Committee in collaboration

     with senior officials from the Department of Environmental

     Affairs and Tourism played a very active lobbying role which

     culminated in the nomination and election of Mr. Valli Moosa as

     the President of the World Conservation Union.



3.   OVERVIEW OF CONGRESS PROCEEDINGS



     The World Conservation Congress of which the delegation of the

     portfolio committee on environmental affairs and tourism and the

     select committee on land and environmental affairs attended was

     officially opened on the 17 November and closed on the 25

     November 2005.



     The proceedings of the congress had parallel commissions meetings

     on ecosystem management, education and communication,

     environmental, economic and social policy, environmental law,

     species survival and protected areas. The plenary considered
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 168 OF 175

      tabling of reports of the Director-General on the work of the

      Union since the 2nd IUCN World Conservation Congress, membership

      development since 2001 to March 2004, follow-up to the

      resolutions and recommendations of the 2nd session of the World

      Conservation Congress, proposed amendments to the rules

      procedure, credentials committee, electronic voting, election of

      the IUCN President, Treasurer, Regional Councilors, Chair of the

      Commissions, 1999-2003 financial situation and 2005-2008

      financial plan.



      After considering the Director-General‟s report, the plenary

      further discussed and adopted draft resolutions, 2005-2008

      programmme and financial plan and Commission‟s recommendations.

      In concluding its proceedings, the plenary then gave an

      opportunity for the announcement of election results and message

      of cooperation from the President elect, Mr. Valli Moosa.



4.    OVERVIEW OF CONGRESS RESOLUTIONS



The ICUN Conservation Congress passed 118 resolutions as follows:



4.1    GOVERNANCE RELATED RESOLUTIONS



The governance related resolutions included:
14 JUNE 2005                                PAGE: 169 OF 175

4.1.1      Precedence clause establishing precedence to IUCN general

           policy;

4.1.2      Improving the transparency of IUCN Council;

4.1.3      Broadening the criteria for membership admission in the

           NGO category;

4.1.4      Involvement of local and regional government authorities

           within IUCN, including local IUCN members in the Union

           delegation at multilateral agreement meeting;

4.1.5      Fulfillment of the rights to optional use of the official

           languages in the internal and external communication

           documents and its members; and

4.1.6      Implementation of the programme for the Insular Caribbean.



4.2   POLICY RELATED RESOLUTIONS



The policy related resolutions included:



4.2.1      Mediterranean mountain convention;

4.2.2      Ratification and implementation of the revised African

           convention;

4.2.3      Protection of the earth‟s water for public and ecological

           benefit;

4.2.4      A moratorium on the further release of genetically

           modified organisms;

4.2.5      Policy on control of animal population for the purpose of

           biodiversity conservation;
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 170 OF 175

4.2.6    HIV/AIDS pandemic and conservation, the Harold Jefferson

         Coolidge medal;

4.2.7    Recognition of earth charter;

4.2.8    Human trapping standards;

4.2.9    Education for sustainable development;and

4.2.10   The precautionary principles in environmental governance,

         coordination of sustainable development programme for

         energy.



4.3. PROGRAMME RELATED RESOLUTIONS



Programme related resolutions included:



4.3.1    Provision of an office for IUCN‟s observer mission to the

         United Nations,;

4.3.2    Audit of international conventions, treaties and

         agreements on environment;

4.3.3    Drafting a charter of ethics for biodiversity

         conservation;

4.3.4    International covenant on environment and development;

4.3.5    Education and communication in IUCN ;

4.3.6    Policy on capacity building and technology transfer; and

4.3.7    Capacity building for young professionals.



4.3. SPECIES RELATED RESOLUTUIONS
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 171 OF 175

Species related resolutions included:



4.3.1       Conservation needs of the tigers, the saiga, antelope,

            dugon;

4.3.2       Protection of the great Indian bustard, shark finning; and

4.3.3       Conservation of the bandula barb and continued prohibition

            of shahtoosh production and trade.



5.    CONCLUSION AND RECOMMENDATIONS Having participated in the six

      commissions of the IUCN during the World Conservation Congress,

      the delegation of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental

      Affairs and Tourism and the Select Committee on Land and Tourism

      conclude and recommend that:

5.1     Noting that the South African Government‟s approach has shifted

        from that of traditional conservation to a more holistic

        approach where conservation is linked with the development

        agenda of the country including local communities, poverty

        alleviation, capacity building, natural resource management;

5.2.1       Acknowledging that the progress made in SA conservation

            over the last ten years has largely been due to the vision

            and work of Mr Valli Moosa, the former Minister of

            Environmental Affairs and Tourism who introduced new

            initiatives and changed the way in which conservation was

            being addressed, it is recommended that:

5.2.2       The Portfolio Committee and the Select Committee must

            during the 2005 Parliamentary Committee period call both
14 JUNE 2005                             PAGE: 172 OF 175

          the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism and

          IUCN to brief members of the purpose and functions of

          commissions such as with ecosystem management, education

          and communication, environmental, economic and social

          policy, environmental law, species survival and protected

          areas.

5.2.3     Both the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

          and IUCN Regional office must appear before the Portfolio

          Committee and the Select Committee to brief members on the

          2005 –2008 IUCN Programme.

5.2.4     Based on the recommendations made during the world

          Conservation Congress in November 2004, the Department of

          Environmental Affairs and Tourism must come and brief both

          the Portfolio Committee and Select Committee on strategies

          and plans put in place to ensure the implementation of the

          World Conservation Congress Resolutions.



                         MONDAY, 13 JUNE 2005



ANNOUNCEMENTS



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces



1.   Message from President
14 JUNE 2005                               PAGE: 173 OF 175

       The Speaker and the Chairperson received the following

       message, dated 13 June 2005, from the President, calling a

       Joint Sitting of the National Assembly and the National

       Council of Provinces:



       CALLING OF A JOINT SITTING OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND THE

       NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES



       By direction of the President and in terms of section

       84(2)(d) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa,

       1996 (Act No. 108 of 1996), read with Rule 7(1)(b) of the

       Joint Rules of Parliament, this serves to confirm the

       President‟s call for a joint sitting of the National Assembly

       and the National Council of Provinces on Tuesday, 14 June

       2005 at 14:00, in order to deliver a message to Parliament.



       Signed

       F CHIKANE

       (The Presidency)



                          TUESDAY, 14 JUNE 2005



ANNOUNCEMENTS



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
14 JUNE 2005                                  PAGE: 174 OF 175

1.   Bills passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent



     (1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 14 June

        2005:



        (i) Citation of Constitutional Laws Bill [B 5B – 2005]

               (National Assembly – sec 75)



        (ii)       South African Sports Commission Act Repeal Bill [B

               13B – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75)



        (iii)      Sectional Titles Amendment Bill [B 10B – 2005]

               (National Assembly – sec 75)



National Assembly



1.   Membership of Committees



     (1) The following changes have been made to the membership of

        Portfolio Committees viz:



        Health:

               Appointed: Kohler–Barnard, Ms D

               Discharged: Steyn, Mr A C
14 JUNE 2005                              PAGE: 175 OF 175

TABLINGS



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces



1.   The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development



     (a) Report of the Judicial Service Commission for 2004.



     (b) Government Notice No R.415 published in Government Gazette

         No 27549 dated 29 April 2005: Amendment of Regulations in

         terms of the Judges‟ Remuneration and Conditions of

         Employment Act, 2001 (Act No 47 of 2001).



     (c) Proclamation No R.21 published in Government Gazette No

         27549 dated 29 April 2005: Extension of the period of

         operation of sections 51 and 52 of the Criminal Law

         Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No 105 of 1997).



National Assembly



1.   The Speaker



     Interim Report of the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) for the

     period April 2004 to September 2004 [RP 128-2004].

				
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