THE WORLD BANK GROUP

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A N N A P O L I S F RIENDS MID - EAST PEACE PUBLIC FORUM









Monday, November 26, 2007



St. Anne‟s Church

199 Duke of Gloucester St.

Annapolis , MD









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P R O C E E D I N G S



M R . C A ROOM: Good evening, Friends, and



ev e r y o n e . W e t hank you all for coming here



to n i g h t .



M y n a m e is Phil Caroom, I am our moderator



fo r t h e d i s c u s s ion this evening, as a member of the



An n a p o l i s F r i e n ds, or Quaker Meeting in Annapo lis.



I w o u l d also like to begin by thanking



Su s a n D a p k u n a s , who just played that fine solo for



us , w h i c h w a s , I think, Suite Number 1 by Johann



Se b a s t i a n B a c h .



A n d I would also like to thank the other



gr o u p s w h i c h h a ve assisted us in getting this event



or g a n i z e d t h i s evening, which includes good advice



fr o m t h e l o c a l chapter of Peace Action, and also



es p e c i a l l y i n c l udes St. Anne‟s Episcopal Church



wh o , i n e f f e c t , has cosponsored the event with us.



I w o u l d like to invit e the Reverend



Wi c k i z e r t o a l s o extend a greeting to everyone and



to s a y a f e w w o rds.



R e v e r e nd.



R E V E R E ND WICKIZER: Thank you, Phil, and



we l c o m e e v e r y o n e. On behalf of St. Anne‟s, it is



wo n d e r f u l t o s e e such a turnout tonight.



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A n d I must tell you, w e had, knowing this



ev e n t a t t h e N a val Academy was coming -- we had



pl a n n e d , o r w e r e beginning to plan some sort of



pr a y e r v i g i l a n d peace event that we would open up



to t h e c o m m u n i t y and so forth, and then Phil and



ot h e r s s t a r t e d contacting us about doing t his kind



of t h i n g , a n d i t snowballed. And I think it may



be , p e r h a p s , a paradigm, or a microcosm, of what we



ca n d o t o g e t h e r when we bring all kinds of people



wi t h a c o m m o n i nterest together to do something.



I t m a y not be perfect, it may be a little



me s s y , a l i t t l e rough around the edges, but, you



kn o w , t h e o u t c o me is actually far greater and far



be t t e r t h a n a n y one of us, as groups working



in d i v i d u a l l y , c ould possibly achieve.



A n d I hope that [is] certainly what



ha p p e n s a t t h e Naval Academy, officiall y, tomo rrow,



an d I h o p e t h a t is what happens globally in all of



ou r e f f o r t s f o r peace and so forth.



S o , o n behalf of a congregation that has



be e n h e r e w o r s h iping God for 300 years or more and



wo r k i n g f o r j u s tice and peace in a variety of



co n t e x t s , I w e l c ome you and thank you for bein g





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he r e f r o m t h e b ottom of my heart, and ask you to



co n t i n u e t o g o out from here, working for the peace



th a t p a s s e s a l l understanding.



L e t u s pray.



G o d o f Abraham, we thank you for bringing



th i s c o m m u n i t y together, and we a sk that you



co n t i n u e t o g r o w us in our hearts, in our passions



fo r p e a c e a n d j ustice.



W e a s k you to continue to move us in



di r e c t i o n s t h a t you will. We ask you to send us



in t o t h i s w o r l d so that we can be your agents for a



be t t e r w o r l d t h at is your drea m for all of us.



A l l t h is we ask in your name. Amen.



G o d b l ess you.



M R . C A ROOM: Another organization which is



ob v i o u s l y c e n t r al to our gathering tonight is



ca l l e d t h e G e n e va Initiative. That is an



or g a n i z a t i o n w h ich has been formed by private



ci t i z e n s o f I s r ael and of the Palestinian people



wh o h a v e b e e n w orking together for many years to



fi n d t h e i r o w n way to peace, if the governments



wh i c h r e p r e s e n t them had not been able to do so.



I w o u l d like to, before introducing our





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sp e c i a l v i s i t o r s, our s pokespeople this evening, to



sa y a f e w m o r e words about our position in hosting



th e m .



I ‟ d l i ke to begin by quoting Winston



Ch u r c h i l l , w h o once said that Americans always can



be c o u n t e d o n t o do the right thing, after they‟ve



tr i e d e v e r y t h i n g else.



[ L a ug h t er.]



M R . C A ROOM: But regardless of what anyone



th i n k s a b o u t t h e timing, I think everyone here



kn o w s t h a t p e a c e between the Palestinian and the



Is r a e l i p e o p l e s can only be a good thing.



S o m e p eople, I think, in the Middle East --



th a t A m e r i c a n s lack the attention and the



un d e r s t a n d i n g t o help with the problems of



pe a c e m a k i n g o v e r there. But even though Americans



ar e p e o p l e w h o would like to see their problems



so l v e d i n l e s s than half -an -hour on a television



sh o w , e v e n t h o u gh we are people who like ou r i deas,



po l i t i c a l i d e a s , short enough to fit on a car



bu m p e r s t i c k e r , there still may be hope for us.



W e c a n find truth even in our bumper



st i c k e r s .





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T h e r e is a swell bumper sticker which



sa y s , “ P e a c e a l so is patriotic.” It is a good



th i n g f o r t h e U nited States to be seeking peac e, as



we h a v e b e g u n t o do with our governments this week,



an d i t w o u l d b e a good and patriotic thing for the



Is r a e l i s a n d t h e Palestinians.



A n o t h e r bumper sticker says, “Peace takes



co u r a g e , t o o . ” It takes a brave person t o sit down



wi t h h i s o r h e r adversaries and just to listen to



ev e r y t h i n g t h e y have to say, not to mention making



th e c o m p r o m i s e s that will need to be made.



T h e l a st bumper sticker I want to mention,



wh i c h s h o u l d b e most meaningful to us, is that,



“P e a c e , a s w e d iscuss it, does not mean the ab sence



of w a r . ” P e a c e means the presence of justice,



be c a u s e , w i t h o u t justice, there can be no peace.



S p e a k i ng of justice, it is appropriate



th a t w e m e e t t o night, also, across the street from



on e o f t h e o l d e st worki ng courthouses in the United



St a t e s . T h e r e , across the streets, Americans and



th e i r a t t o r n e y s face what are, for them, very



di f f i c u l t a n d a ngry disputes in their personal



li v e s , i n t h e i r business, in their community,





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ev e r y d a y . A n d they settle those dispu tes everyday.



Th a t c o u r t h o u s e is another source of common truth



wh i c h w e c a n k e ep in mind tonight.



O n e o f those truths that is often heard



ov e r t h e r e w h e n ever people work on a difficult job



of r e s o l v i n g t h eir disputes is this: They say, “A



go o d s e t t l e m e n t is one where both sides are equally



un h a p p y . ”



T h e u n happiness we know may offer a



co m p r o m i s e , b u t it can be a compromise that we can



li v e w i t h , r a t h er than a fight that we can die for.



T h e o t her truth I‟d like to mention from



th e c o u r t h o u s e is the disclaimer that lawyers often



gi v e . W h e n t h e y‟re getting close to the



se t t l e m e n t , b u t they‟re not quite there, they say,



“T h e D e v i l i s i n the details,” because those



de t a i l s a r e i m p ortant to the daily lives of the



pe o p l e w h o a r e involved. And we know, i n any



di f f i c u l t d i s p u te, it takes time and attention:



mo r e t h a n h a l f - a- day, more than a few hours -- to get



th e s e d e t a i l s w orked out.



S o , w e are fortunate to have with us



re p r e s e n t a t i v e s tonight of the Israeli and





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Pa l e s t i n i a n p e a ce coalition known as the G eneva



In i t i a t i v e , b e c ause their founders and their



or g a n i z a t i o n a l ready have spent a huge amount of



at t e n t i o n a n d m any years in negotiating a draft for



a f i n a l s t a t u s agreement, a peace plan between



th e i r p e o p l e s .



I ‟ d l i ke to offer one last short bit of



hi s t o r y b e f o r e introducing our special guests to



te l l y o u h o w t h e Geneva Initiative was started, and



th e y w i l l t e l l us more, I believe.



T h e G e neva Initiative started after the



so -c a l l e d “ C a m p David peace talks” that were



in i t i a t e d i n t h e year 2000. At that time,



Am e r i c a n s s h o u l d recall that representatives of the



Is r a e l i g o v e r n m ent and of the Palestinian



Li b e r a t i o n O r g a nization, the Palestinian authority,



co n t i n u e d t o m e et until 2001.



B u t i n 2001, there was a new



ad m i n i s t r a t i o n in Washington and ther e was a new



ad m i n i s t r a t i o n in Israel, and there was new unrest



am o n g t h e P a l e s tinians, which we now call the



Se c o n d I n t i f a d a .



T h e s e new governments then decided that





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th e y w o u l d n o l onger continue the peace talks.



Ho w e v e r , t h e r e were some negotiators who had



re p r e s e n t e d t h e government, official



re p r e s e n t a t i v e s of the Israeli government, official



re p r e s e n t a t i v e s of the Palestinian authority, who



di d n o t w a n t t o give up.



T h e y s till saw that there was hope that a



se t t l e m e n t c o u l d be reached. And they ag reed, even



th o u g h t h e i r g o vernments no longer supported them,



to c o n t i n u e m e e ting. And they did this; they



co n t i n u e d m e e t i ng privately and unofficially. They



co n t i n u e d t o m e et for nearly two years, working



de t a i l a f t e r d e tail, in the same way that they



m i g h t h a v e , h a d they been officially working with



th e i r g o v e r n m e n ts‟ support.



F i n a l l y, in the year 2003, with the



su p p o r t o f t h e Swiss government, they announced in



Ge n e v a t h a t t h e y had signed an agreement which had



re s o l v e d t h e v a st majority of the dispu tes bet ween



th e i r t w o p e o p l es. That agreement was called the



Ge n e v a A c c o r d . The Geneva Accord is available for



us t o r e a d n o w online. There are pamphlets, if



th e y h a v e n ‟ t a l l been taken in the back, which have





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th e t e x t o f i t .



A n d i f you want to get a copy but do n ot



ha v e a c c e s s t o a computer to print it out, the



we b s i t e a d d r e s s is on the program, the yellow



pi e c e s o f p a p e r which were there for us to pick up



th i s e v e n i n g - -t hen you could write your name a nd



ad d r e s s o n a c l ipboard which we will have in th e



ba c k , a n d s o m e o ne could send a copy of it to you.



T h e G e neva Accord was a comprehensive



ag r e e m e n t . I t provided a plan for some Palestinian



re f u g e e s t o r e t urn to their homelands and for other



Pa l e s t i n i a n r e f ugees who were unable to return to



re c e i v e f a i r c o mpensation from a large compensation



fu n d . T h a t f u n d would have been established by



mu t u a l a p p r a i s e rs to decide what the Palestinians‟



pr o p e r t y w a s w o rth at the time it was lost.



T h e f u nds would enable each Palestinian



fa m i l y t o b u y n ew land, new b usinesses, new



pr o p e r t y , w h e t h er in Palestinian territory, or



an o t h e r c o u n t r y that they might choose if they



ch o s e n o t t o r e turn to the new Palestinian



ho m e l a n d .



T h e G e neva Accord also provided a plan for





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sh a r i n g o f t h e holy city of Jerusalem, with an



ar r a n g e m e n t f o r cooperative control by each side of



th e p l a c e s m o s t sacred to it, and with an



ar r a n g e m e n t f o r cooperative peacekeeping.



T h e G e neva Accord also provides for the



se c u r i t y a n d d e fense of both the Israelis and of



th e P a l e s t i n i a n s.



T h e A c cord addresses almost every othe r



co n c e r n o f t h e people, setting out a plan where



Is r a e l i s a n d P a lestinians could be good neighbors.



Th e r e a r e a f e w gaps which the negotiators without -



- w i t h t h e h e l p of engineers and other



pr o f e s s i o n a l s , such as the sharing of water rights,



co o p e r a t i o n i n the court systems, and certain



ec o n o m i c m a t t e r s.



B u t a s detailed as it was, the negotiators



in G e n e v a r e a l i zed that it was time for them to



re t u r n t o I s r a e l and to educate the people about



th e p l a n , a n d t o encourage them to u nderstand the



wa y t h a t p e a c e could be reached. And what they



wo u l d - - a n d t e a c h them what they would need to do to



li v e b y t h a t p e ace agreement.



F o r t h is purpose, to educate the people





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an d t o l e a d t h e m towards peace, they formed the



Ge n e v a I n i t i a t i ve. Th e Geneva Initiative, from



wh i c h o u r t w o s peakers come this evening, consists



of t w o n o n - p r o f it organizations, one Israeli and



on e P a l e s t i n i a n . They cooperate with each other



wi t h o u t s i d e g r oups, and they also cooperate with



th e I s r a e l i a n d Palestinian gov ernments in any way



th a t t h e y c a n t o move peace forward between the two



co u n t r i e s .



O u r s p eakers will tell you more about the



Ge n e v a I n i t i a t i ve in their initial statements, and



a l i t t l e l a t e r in response to questions from you in



ou r a u d i e n c e .



B u t n o w, l et me go ahead and introduce our



sp e a k e r s .



F i r s t , on our left is Mr. Nidal Foquaha.



Mr . F o q u a h a i s the Executive Director of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n P e a ce Coalition, that side of the



Ge n e v a I n i t i a t i ve.



H e i s responsible for the day -to - day



ac t i v i t i e s o f t he group. He has published several



ar t i c l e s a n d p r eviously has served as a media and



co m m u n i c a t i o n s director for the Palestinian Media





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Ce n t e r .



H e a l s o, recently, with other colleagues,



ha s f o u n d e d t h e Palestinian Liberal Forum, and



se r v e s o n a s t e ering com mittee of both the



Pa l e s t i n i a n - I s r aeli Peace NGOs Forum, and of an



in t e r n a t i o n a l g roup called the International Peace



Re s e a r c h A s s o c i ation.



H e l i v es on the West Bank in Ramallah. He



is m a r r i e d a n d has three children.



P l e a s e join me in welcoming Mr. Ni dal



Fo q u a h a .



[ A p p l a use.]



M R . C A ROOM: Second, on our right, let me



in t r o d u c e M r . M ossi Raz.



M r . R a z serves on the Board of the Israeli



si d e o f t h e G e n eva Initiative.



P r e v i o usly, he was an elected member of



Kn e s s e t t h e I s r aeli legislature.



M r . R a z also works as business manager for



an o r g a n i z a t i o n called “All for Peace,” which



op e r a t e s a P a l e stinian and Israeli radio station.



H e c h a irs an executive committee of the



Is r a e l i p o l i t i c al party called Meretz.





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A n d h e chairs an Israeli forum for



ec o l o g i c a l a r t , and serves on the board of an



um b r e l l a g r o u p for all Israeli environmental



or g a n i z a t i o n s .



P r e v i o usly, he served as an Israeli Army



of f i c e r , a n d h e has a degree from Hebrew University



in E c o n o m i c s a n d Accounting.



P l e a s e join me in welcoming Mr . Mossi Raz.



[ A p p l a use.]



M R . C A ROOM: And as I‟ve said, in a few



mo m e n t s , w e w i l l invite questions from you and our



au d i e n c e , a n d w hen we do that, we will have a young



Fr i e n d a s s i s t u s with a microphone that we will



in v i t e p e o p l e t o come up to in the f ront.



H o l d t he microphone not up at your mouth,



bu t a l i t t l e b i t away from it. And if you do that,



th e n w e ‟ l l b e s ure that everyone else in the



au d i e n c e w i l l h ear you, as well as Mr. Raz and Mr.



Fo q u a h a a r e h e a ring you.



T o b e g in, though, I would lik e to invi te



ou r g u e s t s , t a k ing turns, to tell us briefly about



th e i r v i e w s o f the Annapolis Conference tomorrow



ab o u t t h e G e n e v a Initiative and how they believe





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th a t A m e r i c a n s might help move this process



fo r w a r d .



F i r s t , I‟d like to address the topic --th e



qu e s t i o n t o M r . Raz, and invite you, sir, if you



wo u l d t e l l u s w hat you see as the importance of the



An n a p o l i s C o n f e rence tomorrow, which is called by



ou r g o v e r n m e n t s to discuss the peace process. And



al s o , i f y o u w a nt to include in that, what you see



a s t h e r o l e f o r the Geneva Initiative and the



Ge n e v a A c c o r d i n those negotiations.



M r . R a z-- and I don‟t know if your



mi c r o p h o n e i s o n. We should make sure it is turned



on a n d l i t u p .



M R . R A Z: Okay. First, thank you, Phil,



an d t h a n k y o u e verybody for your -- oh-- for inviting



us h e r e , i t i s really a blessing how many people



at t e n d e d h e r e a nd the interest that you have in



th i s s u m m i t . T hank you for that.



I t h i n k that tomorrow is an historic day.



Ac t u a l l y , I w o u ld say that every November, once in



th i r t y y e a r s , c omes an historic day in America for



th e M i d d l e E a s t .



I n N o v ember 1947, November 29, exactly 60





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ye a r s a g o , t h e r e was the UN resolution to establish



in t h e l a n d o f Israel a Palestinian state and a



Je w i s h s t a t e .



T h i s w as the beginning of the stat e of



Is r a e l , a n d u n f ortunately, it was not the beginning



of t h e s t a t e o f Palestine.



I n 1 9 7 7 came the late Egyptian President



Sa d a t t o v i s i t Israel in November ‟77, and then



th e y c a m e h e r e to Camp David and achieved the peace



ag r e e m e n t b e t w e en Israel and Egypt.



A n d n o w, in November 2007, in the first



ti m e i n t h e h i s tory --delegations from Israel, from



Pa l e s t i n e , f r o m the Arab states, and from all over



th e w o r l d , a r e coming here to start negotiations,



to s t a r t t h e w o rk towards peace between Palestine



an d I s r a e l , b e t ween free Palestine and independent



Is r a e l .



I t i s very important that they come here.



It i s a n h i s t o r ic day, and I‟m sure that they are



go i n g t o d e c i d e tomorrow about timetables and about



fr a m e w o r k s t o d eal with the problem --- to solve the



pr o b l e m .



A n d I want to call upon them and to tell





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th e m - - P h i l , I t hink, told you about the Geneva



In i t i a t i v e - - t h e details are not important at all.



I t e l l y o u w h y : because many Israelis and many



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a g reed upon this paper. This is a



pa p e r t h a t t h e majority of Israelis and the



ma j o r i t y o f P a l estinians can live with.



S o , I call upon those leaders. You don‟t



ha v e t o w a s t e t ime, you don‟t have to negotiate



ag a i n , y o u d o n ‟ t have to start from the very



be g i n n i n g a g a i n . We are talking for 40 years, and



we a r e k i l l i n g each other for much more than that.



St o p i t . J u s t stop it.



Y o u h a ve an agreement on the table. I



ca l l u p o n t h e l eaders of Israel, I call upon the



le a d e r s o f P a l e stine, “Accept this paper as the



ba s i s t o n e g o t i ation.” Then you can chan ge



so m e t h i n g i f y o u want to change. Then you can



de c i d e a b o u t t h e timetable. You should go back to



yo u r n a t i o n s a n d tell them, “We have an agreement.



We w a n t t o d e l i ver. We can deliver.” The majority



in b o t h n a t i o n s want it. You can go to referendum



if y o u w a n t . O kay. Let‟s go for it.



A n d I want to say something about the





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ot h e r A r a b l e a d ers who come here. Peace between



Is r a e l a n d a l l the Arab nations is really possible.



I w e l c o m e t h e d ecision of the Arab League to send



th e i r f o r e i g n m inisters he re. I welcome the A rab



Le a g u e P e a c e I n itiative, which was launched in



Be i r u t f i v e y e a rs ago, emerged 2002.



A n d I call upon the Israeli leaders,



“A c c e p t t h i s i n itiative.” The example of Geneva



is a v e r y g o o d example for peace between Israel and



Pa l e s t i n e .



T h i s i s the good initiative for peace



be t w e e n I s r a e l and all the 22 members in the Arab



le a g u e s , a l l t h ose nations: Syria, Lebanon, and all



th e o t h e r s . Y o u can decide tomorrow, the leaders



wh o c o m e h e r e - - you can decide tomorrow to solv e the



pe o p l e o n t h e b asis of the Arab League Initiative.



A n d t h en you can talk about the timeframe.



Yo u c a n t a l k a b out how to deliver, but this is a



ve r y g o o d m o d e l for peace between Israelis and



Pa l e s t i n i a n s - -b etween Israelis and the Arab



na t i o n s . Sorry.



I t h i nk that maybe I want to elaborate a



li t t l e b i t l a t e r about that, but it is very





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im p o r t a n t f o r m e to tell you that Israelis and



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a r e not just killing each other. We



ha v e a l o t o f c ooperation. You have here the best



ex a m p l e , t h e G e neva Initiativ e. There is a lo t of



wo r k o f t h e c i v il society in both nations.



P h i l m entioned the radio that I am -- the



Al l f o r P e a c e R adio Station. A lot of work that it



is d o i n g b e t w e e n the two societies, and we must



em p o w e r t h e c i v il society of both nations. We m ust



em p o w e r t h e p e o ple - to- people activity. We must



em p o w e r t h e j o i nt activity of Palestinians and



Is r a e l i s i n o r d er to solve the conflict.



I a m s ure that it is only a matter of



ti m e . I t i s n o t if. We are going to solve the



co n f l i c t . I t i s only a matt er of time.



T h a n k you.



[ A p p l a use.]



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



L e t m e next invite Mr. Foquaha to respond



to t h e s a m e q u e ry, the same question.



W h a t d o you think is the importance of the



An n a p o l i s C o n f e rence tomorrow, and what role do you



be l i e v e t h a t t h e Geneva Accord and the Geneva





19

jcp 20







In i t i a t i v e m a y have in helping to move that



fo r w a r d ?



M R . F O QUAHA: Hello.



F i r s t , allow me to thank you, Phil. Thank



yo u v e r y m u c h f or your effort, which enabled us



to d a y t o a p p e a r here in Annapolis, just one day



be f o r e t h e o f f i cial conference, and to thank also



th e A n n a p o l i s F riends meeting and the Quakers.



R e a l l y , I would like also to thank you, to



th a n k e v e r y b o d y of you -- now, I really do feel that



we a r e n o t a l o n e in the work of peace, and we have



su p p o r t e r s , a n d we have allies everywhere, eve n



he r e i n t h e U n i ted States, where it is some 5,000



mi l e s a w a y f r o m the place of the conflict.



S o , t h ank you very much, thanks to



ev e r y b o d y h e r e , where tomorrow, Annapolis will



wi t n e s s a v e r y important meeting, an historic event



wh i c h w e i n t h e Palestinian Peace Coalition and the



Pa l e s t i n i a n P e a ce Force, in a broader term, do



re a l l y b e l i e v e that this conference is a real and



ve r y i m p o r t a n t and serious step that creates a new



po s i t i v e a p p r o a ch in the whole peace process



be t w e e n t h e P a l estinians and Israelis, which we





20

jcp 21







al s o d o b e l i e v e , at the end of the day, it will



le a d t o s o l v i n g the Palestinian - Israeli conflict,



an d t o p u t a n e nd for the cycle of violence, which



re n e w e d o r r e s t arted seven years ago with the



co l l a p s e o f t h e C amp David [talks].



T h e A n napolis Conference, we believe, is



an i m p o r t a n t i s sue, important for both Palestinians



an d I s r a e l i s , a nd it is in this regard we really do



ca l l u p o n o u r l eaders who will be here tomorrow to



ex e r t e v e r y e f f ort possible towards neg otiatin g an



en d g a m e s e t t l e m ent for the Israeli -Palestinian



co n f l i c t , b a s e d on the principles outlined in the



re l e v a n t i n t e r n ational resolutions, in the vision



of M r . B u s h f o r 2002, for the road map plan, and



al s o f o r t h e A r ab Peace Initiative towards endin g



th e I s r a e l i o c c upation, which started in 1967, and



th e e s t a b l i s h m e nt of a Palestinian independent



st a t e t h a t l i v e s side by side in peace and security



wi t h I s r a e l , a n d reaching a just and agreed upon



so l u t i o n f o r t h e problem of the Palestinian



re f u g e e s .



T h i s i ssue will -- if it happens here --or if



th e p r o c e s s f o r achieving it started here from





21

jcp 22







An n a p o l i s , w i l l be really recorded in the history,



an d w i l l b e m e n tioned even after generations to go.



W i t h i n this context, we do not forget the



ro l e o f t h e i n t ern ational community, mainly the



Am e r i c a n r o l e i n this regard. And in this



oc c a s i o n , w e i n the Geneva -- we call upon the



in t e r n a t i o n a l c ommunity, mainly the United States --



in o r d e r n o t s a ve any effort possible in helping



an d t r y i n g t o a ssess for the leaders of Palestine



an d I s r a e l i t o reach an agreement.



A n d t h en, to keep support and help for the



im p l e m e n t a t i o n of this agreement within timetables



an d t i m e s c h e d u les that -- within a process that



le a d s , a t t h e e nd, to solving the conflict and



es t a b l i s h m e n t o f a Palestinian state.



A s a p erson who represents Geneva, and as



my c o l l e a g u e M o ssi just said, we say to them,



“D o n ‟ t s a y i t i s impossible.” We say it is



po s s i b l e . P e a c e in the Middle East is possible.



An d p e a c e b e t w e en Israelis and Palestinians is



po s s i b l e . A n d the proof on this? That we are



wo r k i n g t o g e t h e r. There, in the region, we are



wo r k i n g t o g e t h e r on a daily basis.





22

jcp 23







A n d t h e example of Geneva, and the model



of G e n e v a , w h i c h was done and completed within some



tw o - t h r e e y e a r s of serious and with sincere ef forts



by p e o p l e w h o o riginally, by the way -- they were



pa r t i c i p a t i n g i n the official Palestinian and



Is r a e l i n e g o t i a tion. They built on what has been



ac h i e v e d i n C a m p David, and in Clinton‟s



pa r a m e t e r s , a n d took the responsibility upon their



sh o u l d e r s , a n d went to every place in the world,



un t i l f i n a l l y c oncluding an endgame solution or



mo d e l f o r s o l v i ng the conflict which was announced



an d l a u n c h e d i n December 2003 in Geneva.



T h i s m odel provides for a detailed



so l u t i o n f o r t h e main issues of th e conflict.



W e h a v e the issue of Jerusalem, which is



on e o f t h e m o s t important issues of the conflict



fo r b o t h P a l e s t inians and Israelis.



W e h a v e also the issue of refugees, which



is r e a l l y w h e n I say it is an issue of life and



de a t h f o r P a l e s tinians , I‟m not revealing a secret.



It i s r e a l l y a very important issue, which, in



Ge n e v a , s t i p u l a tes for its solution.



A n d t h e issue of the borders, which is





23

jcp 24







ad d r e s s e d a n d i n details --detailed by the Gene va



In i t i a t i v e , w h e re we are the one who seriously, not



on l y p r e s e n t e d , but really agreed upon the basis of



ha v i n g t h e l a n d swap within a certain percentage



ag r e e d u p o n t h a t does exceed 3 percent, and this is



to b e a m u t u a l - -where Israel will take some of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n l a n d, and the Palestinians will do the



sa m e . S o , i n G eneva, there is the main guidelines



of t h e s o l u t i o n .



A n d y o u may say, or an official may say,



“O k a y . W e d o n ot agree with this certain issue.”



Fi n e w i t h u s . Take it as a reference. Take it as



a model. A t l e ast you may agree with us on ot her



is s u e s . A n d i f we are going also, to take the Arab



Pe a c e I n i t i a t i v e, which is, by the way -- is the main



ba s i s f o r t h e p resence of the different Arab



co u n t r i e s w h o a re participating now in Annapolis.



Th e y p a r t i c i p a t ed based upon the Arab Peace



In i t i a t i v e p r e s ented in 2008 in Beirut, and then



af f i r m e d , o r c o nfirmed by the Arabs once again in



20 0 5 i n R i a d , t he Arab Peace Initiative provides a



ge n e r a l f r a m e w o rk for solving the conflict.



A n d w i thin this general framework I think





24

jcp 25







we s t i l l h a v e t he oppor tunity to rely on the plan



wh i c h G e n e v a p r ovides for solving the different and



th e s m a l l i s s u e s of the conflict.



I t i s true that there is an Arab position



wh e r e t h e d i f f e rent Arab states take one position



re g a r d i n g t h e p articipation in Annapolis, but whe n



it c o m e s t o t h e details of the conflicts, it is a



co n f l i c t b e t w e e n the Palestinians and Israelis,



Sy r i a n s a n d I s r aelis, Lebanese and Israelis, and



th o s e c o n c e r n e d parties will sit around the table



an d d i s c u s s t h e details of the solution, so we, the



Pa l e s t i n i a n s , a nd they, the Israelis, who will sit



ar o u n d t h e t a b l e, and who will discuss the details



of t h e c o n f l i c t , which we do believe will not be,



at t h e e n d o f t he day, that far from the main



gu i d e l i n e s o f t he Geneva Initiative.



T h a n k you.



M R . C A ROOM: Let me offer one more



qu e s t i o n f o r y o u each to respond to individually,



an d t h e n w e w i l l begin to invite questions from



an y o n e i n t h e a udience who would like to offer



ot h e r q u e s t i o n s .



T h e s e cond question I‟d like to start





25

jcp 26







wi t h , M r . F o q u a ha, is -- obviou sly, we have been



he a r i n g a b o u t t he peace negotiation itself, which



is a n i m p o r t a n t part of the Geneva Initiative, to



tr y t o m o v e t h a t forward; however, the other part



wh i c h w e h a v e h eard that the Geneva Initiative



wo r k s o n i s p r e paring the people in the P alestinian



la n d a n d i n I s r aeli land to live together and to



co o p e r a t e i n a better way.



S o , M r . Foquaha, could you please describe



fo r u s s o m e o f the more important activities of the



Ge n e v a I n i t i a t i ve in that people -to -people par t of



th e p r o g r a m ?



A n d a l s o, if you can combine with that if



th e r e i s a n y t h i ng that you think Americans can do



to h e l p t h a t p a rt of the process, in addition to



en c o u r a g i n g o u r politicians. If we can do anything



to h e l p t h e p e o ple - to- people part of the process,



wh a t w o u l d t h a t be?



M R . F O QUAHA: Thank you for this good



qu e s t i o n .



W h e n r eally, in fact, you have such a



po l i t i c a l i d e a - -an important political model --



so l u t i o n f o r s u ch a conflict, a conflict by the





26

jcp 27







Pa l e s t i n i a n a n d Israeli -- that related back to



hi s t o r y f o r l o n g years , you need a strong momentum



be h i n d i t .



A n d t o keep on this drive, we went, since



th e v e r y b e g i n n ing to establishing two



or g a n i z a t i o n s i n order to follow up and to



ad m i n i s t e r t h e whole process of promoting the



co n c e p t o f t h e Geneva.



S o , w e set up off ices in both Ramallah and



Te l A v i v , w h e r e we are working on a daily basis in



su c h o f f i c e s , o n different issues. And mainly here



co m e s , w h i c h i s most important, our work with the



gr a s s r o o t s .



A m o n g the important work which we do, we



ed u c a t e o u r y o u ng chil dren. We educate our



st u d e n t s i n u n i versities. We educated our



pr o f e s s i o n a l s , our graduates. We educate, in



ge n e r a l , o u r p e ople on peace, on tolerance,



ac c e p t i n g t h e o ther, on all noble values that lead



to p e a c e .



S o , w e do have a program --a program f or



th e w h o l e y e a r , if it is to say it like that -- a



sy s t e m a t i c p r o g ram where we do work, first, on a





27

jcp 28







un i l a t e r a l b a s i s. As Palestinians, we work in the



Pa l e s t i n i a n t e r ritories. We approach the



Pa l e s t i n i a n c o m munity and the different segments



wi t h i n t h i s c o m munity, and the Israelis do the



sa m e , b u t w e d o not forget the importance of



br i n g i n g p e o p l e together.



S o , o n e of the main issues which we are



wo r k i n g o n i s b ringing people together. And due to



th e n a t u r e o f w here in the region, in fact, it is



no t e a s y t o b r i ng a number of Israelis and



Pa l e s t i n i a n s t o gether in the region. It is not



po s s i b l e .



P a l e s t inians cannot move to Tel Aviv and



tr a v e l t o a n I s raeli city, and it is the same for



th e I s r a e l i s , d ue to the nature of the conflict.



An d t h i s i s , b y the way -- this is what complica tes



th e w h o l e p r o c e ss, because even we do have now a



ge n e r a t i o n o f P alestinians and Israelis who know



no t h i n g a b o u t t he other.



T h e P a lestinian young generation, what



th e y k n o w a b o u t the Israelis is an Israeli



oc c u p a t i o n a r m y , a nd Israeli settlers who cause the



mi s e r y o f t h e P alestinians.





28

jcp 29







A n d f o r the Israelis -- and for the young



ge n e r a t i o n o f t he Israelis, what they know about



th e P a l e s t i n i a n s is a suicide bomber and a



te r r o r i s t . A n d it is our obligation and it is our



ma i n t a s k t o c h ange such stereotypes and to change



th e i m a g e o f t h e other on -- for the other.



B y t h e way, we will have, next week, as



on e - - I w i l l g i v e one of the examples. Next week,



we w i l l b r i n g s ome 30 Palestinians and Israelis



to g e t h e r i n T u r key, in a city in Turkey.



T h e r e we will provide a room for some 15



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a n d some 15 Israelis who are



pa r l i a m e n t a r i a n assistants, to talk openly, freely,



an d e v e r y b o d y o f them to express his opinion, his



at t i t u d e o n t h e main issues that raise in his mind.



So m e t i m e s t h e r e are issues of main interest for



bo t h P a l e s t i n i a ns and Israelis, and mainly for



th o s e w h o w o r k in a similar field.



S o , w e are bringing journalists together,



we a r e b r i n g i n g teachers together, we are bringing



yo u n g l e a d e r s t ogether, we are bringin g school



st u d e n t s t o g e t h er, and also we are bringing



po l i t i c i a n s t o g ether.





29

jcp 30







W e k e p t having our programs for bringing



po l i t i c i a n s f r o m within the institutions in



Pa l e s t i n e a n d I srael, even during the most severe



si t u a t i o n s a n d circumstances of the conflict . In



20 0 4 , 2 0 0 5 , a n d 2006, we used to bring them



to g e t h e r , a n d w e still, and we will continue to



br i n g t h e m t o g e ther and to try with them the model



of t h e G e n e v a .



W e l l , as you may see, by the type of the



wo r k w h i c h w e d o, in fact, this is huge work, whi ch



ne e d s a l o t o f support, and we do really rely on



th e i n t e r n a t i o n al support as an organization -- a



ci v i l s o c i e t y o rganization, we rely on the moral



an d f i n a n c i a l s upport of the international



co m m u n i t y . F o r now, we do have support from the EU



or g a n i z a t i o n s a nd even states. And we do now,



al s o - - w e r e l y , also, and we hope that the Americans



wi l l b e m o r e h e lpful in this regard, the issue of



ma k i n g p e a c e . The industry of making peace is



re a l l y s o m e t h i n g that needs the efforts of all, and



we d o n e e d , i n this regard, the efforts of the



Am e r i c a n s a s p u blic, and the efforts of the



Am e r i c a n a d m i n i stration, and the issue of the





30

jcp 31







po l i t i c a l - - a n d trying to practice its influence



up o n b o t h P a l e s tinians and Israelis, and mainly on



th e I s r a e l i s f o r reaching and concluding a



se t t l e m e n t a n d solution for the Palestinian -Is raeli



co n f l i c t .



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



[ A p p l a use.]



M R . C A ROOM: Let me invite Mr. Raz on the



Is r a e l i s i d e t o speak to the same question.



W h a t i s the importance of the people -to -



pe o p l e w o r k o f the Ge neva Initiative, and what do



yo u t h i n k A m e r i cans might do to support that?



M R . R A Z: I think the importance of the



ac t i v i t y o f t h e Geneva Initiative is not only the



fi e l d o f p e o p l e -to - people.



I t h i n k that the Geneva Initiative -- I am



ta l k i n g n o w a b o u t the Israeli side --by the



la u n c h i n g o f t h e agreement -- of the Accord four



ye a r s a g o , o n D ecember 1, 2003, in Geneva, after



th r e e y e a r s o f intifada, of thousands of



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a n d Israelis killed in the nation, I



th i n k t h e l a u n c h of Geneva showed to Israe lis and



to P a l e s t i n i a n s , and to all over the world, that





31

jcp 32







pe a c e b e t w e e n I sraelis and Palestinians is



po s s i b l e .



T h e r e is a model, because until 2003,



ma i n l y f r o m 2 0 0 0 -- from the -- in Camp David, most of



th e I s r a e l i s s a id, “Okay. Maybe we cannot do that.



Th e r e i s n o w a y to do that.” And this was a



ch a n g e . E v e r y b ody saw that there is a model. By



th e w a y , s u r p r i singly, the Israeli public opinion,



th e p r o b l e m s a r e not refugees, because almost every



Is r a e l i c a n l i v e with the written solution of



Ge n e v a a b o u t t h e refugees question.



A n d e v en though Jerusalem -- because I think



a l a r g e m a j o r i t y of Israelis can live with the



wr i t t e n s o l u t i o n of Geneva about the future of



Je r u s a l e m - - n o t easy, but the majority of Israelis



ca n l i v e w i t h t hat.



T h e p r oblem is the se ttlements, and ma ny



Is r a e l i s c a n n o t live with what is written in



Ge n e v a , t h a t t e ns of thousands of settlers will



ha v e t o l e a v e . And there is no other choice. By



th e w a y , t h i s i s exactly why a few weeks later,



af t e r t h e l a u n c hing of Geneva, the previous P rime



Mi n i s t e r S h a r o n announced that he is going to





32

jcp 33







di s e n g a g e G a z a , because he understood what the



Is r a e l i p u b l i c understood, that the settlements is



th e p r o b l e m , a n d then he wanted to evacuate the



se t t l e m e n t s .



S o , i t has a lot of --the launching of



Ge n e v a c h a n g e d the Israeli political map. Many



pe o p l e c a m e t o understand and to believe that we



ca n s o l v e t h e p roblem. Before that, very few



pe o p l e t h o u g h t in those terms. People thought,



“O k a y . P a l e s t i nians are extreme, we are extreme,



th e r e i s n o w a y to so lve the problem.” Now, t he



ca m p a i g n i s a l l the time. Even now, when we are



ta l k i n g h e r e i n Annapolis, last Saturday night,



Pe a c e N o w a n d G eneva Initiative mobilized hundreds



of p e o p l e t o d e monstrate in front of the residents



of t h e I s r a e l i Prime Minister in a public squa re in



Je r u s a l e m , c a l l ing the Prime Minister to make



co m p r o m i s e w i t h the Palestinians here in Annapolis.



So , i t i s a c a m paign that is lasting more than four



ye a r s - - o r a l m o s t four years, and of course, we will



ne e d t o g o o n w ith this.



P a rt o f this campaign is the people -to-



pe o p l e a c t i v i t y , which is -- I find it very





33

jcp 34







im p o r t a n t , e x t r emely important, because you just



ha v e t o u n d e r s t and, Israelis are listening to the



Is r a e l i r a d i o , watch the Israeli TV, read the



Is r a e l i n e w s p a p ers. They believe that Israeli s are



th e v i c t i m s . T hey really believe that, because



th a t i s w h a t i s written in these newspapers, that



is w h a t t h e y w a tch in those TV channels. They



wa t c h o n l y t h e Israelis suffer. They don‟t show



th e P a l e s t i n i a n s suffer. They show only th e



Is r a e l i v i e w s . They hardly show the Palestinian



vi e w s .



A n d t h e same on the Palestinian side, the



fo c u s o n t h e P a lestinian suffer -- the Palestinian



vi e w s , a n d e v e r y Palestinian -- it shows that th e



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a r e the victims and the Israelis are



th e b a d g u y s . Now, both of them are right and both



of t h e m h a v e a mistake.



T h e r e is no -- not so easy that there is a



ba d g u y a n d a g ood guy. It is not like that.



A n d t h en you take Israelis to meet



Pa l e s t i n i a n s , w hen you take Palestinians to meet



Is r a e l i s , t h e y understand that, “Okay, not all the



tr u t h i s i n m y pocket. The reality is what I





34

jcp 35







th o u g h t u n t i l I came here to meet Palestinians. I



am n o t t h e o n l y victim that -- the other side is a



vi c t i m a s w e l l . ” And it has made a tremendous



ch a n g e i n t h e v iew of t hose people who have



pa r t i c i p a t e d i n those people - to- people activities,



an d t h a t i s w h y this is very important.



T h e p r oblem is that we cannot mobilize



se v e n m i l l i o n I sraelis to meet five million



Pa l e s t i n i a n s . So, we have to figure out about



ot h e r w a y s t o d o that. And one of the ways is



ra d i o , w e b s i t e s , every other way that we can do to



he l p u s t o b r i n g the Palestinian message to



Is r a e l i s , b r i n g the Israeli message to



Pa l e s t i n i a n s , a nd then both of them will understand



th a t t h e r e a l i t y is a little bit mo re complica ted



th a n t h e y t h i n k .



B u t t h ere is a possibility to solve the



pr o b l e m , a n d i n that way, we hope to mobilize



pe o p l e t o s u p p o rt the Geneva Initiative and Peace



fo r A l l .



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



[ A p p l a use.]



M R . C A ROOM: I am going to invite o ne our





35

jcp 36







yo u n g F r i e n d s , Martin Kraft to come up here and to



pe r s o n o u r m i c r ophone.



S o , i f there are questions that anyone in



th e a u d i e n c e w o uld like to ask -- what we‟re going to



re q u e s t i s t h a t you come to the front and Martin is



go i n g t o g i v e y ou this micr ophone so that we can



he a r y o u a n d o u r guests can hear you.



A n d b e fore you begin to speak, also, if



yo u w o u l d a l s o please introduce yourself: Say your



na m e a n d g i v e u s your question, please.



M S . K E EPER: Is this okay?



G o o d e vening, Mr. Foquaha and M r. Raz, my



na m e i s S u s a n K eeper [ph.], and my husband and I



ye a r n d e e p l y f o r peace between your two countries,



an d w e t h a n k y o u for coming here tonight and also



fo r a l l t h e w o r k that you‟ve done with the Geneva



In i t i a t i v e t o p romote peace in Palestine and



Is r a e l .



M y q u e stion is, Mr. Raz, you said that the



an s w e r i s n o t i n the details. Could each of you



te l l u s w h a t a r e the two or three major things that



ar e p r e v e n t i n g this peace agreement from happening?



M R . C A ROOM: Do you want to start this





36

jcp 37







ti m e , p e r h a p s- - Mr. Raz to respond to that ques tion?



M R . R A Z: Do you want me to respond or



ju s t t o h e a r a l l the questions, or...



M R . C A ROOM: Go ahead and respond.



H e r q u estion was, “Could you identify,



pe r h a p s , t w o o r three of the things that you think



ar e t h e m o s t i m portant obstacles to overcome in the



ne g o t i a t i o n ? ”



M R . R A Z: Yes, I think that the



se t t l e m e n t s i s the most -- the most difficult



ob s t a c l e , b e c a u se here the government of Israel



wi l l h a v e t o e v acuate tens of thousands of people,



pr o b a b l y m o r e t h an 100,000 people, from their



ho m e s .



T h e i r homes are in occupied territories,



an d t h e y s h o u l d have understood years ago that it



wi l l n o t w o r k , that this is not really their homes,



bu t i t i s s t i l l their homes. Some have lived there



fo r 4 0 y e a r s . Some of them have even grandchildren



th e r e . I t h i n k it is going to be very difficult.



W e h a v e seen how difficult it was to



ev a c u a t e 9 , 0 0 0 settlers from Gaza Strip two years



ag o . I t i s n o t easy. This is, I think, the





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bi g g e s t o b s t a c l e.



T h e s e cond is the fact that I think



le a d e r s o f b o t h sides, Israel and Palestine, I am



so r r y t o s a y t h at, are not brave enough to say, “We



wa n t t o g o . W e want to do that. We are willing to



pa y t h e p r i c e . We are willing to go to the people.



We a r e w i l l i n g to go to referendum and to ask them



to v o t e f o r t h a t.” They hesitate.



T h e y k now, unfortunately, unfortunately,



at l e a s t o n t h e Israeli side, they remember what



ha p p e n e d t o l a t e Prime Minister Rabin who was



as s a s s i n a t e d b e cause of his will to peace.



A n d I believe that Pal estinian side,



Pr e s i d e n t A b b a s is hesitating, too. And this is



re a l l y s a d .



M R . C A ROOM: Mr. Foquaha. I don‟t know if



yo u w a n t t o a g r ee or if you want to identify if



th e r e a r e p e r h a ps a couple of issues that you think



ar e t h e m o s t d i fficult.



M R . F O QUA HA: Yes, a couple of sentenc es.



A s y o u may all know, following signing the



Os l o A g r e e m e n t and establishment of the Palestinian



Au t h o r i t y a s a n interim authority which will -- for





38

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an i n t e r i m p e r i od which will end in 1999 --and then



th e r e w i l l b e t he perma nent status.



D u r i n g that period, five issues remained



pe n d i n g o r n o t tackled. Those issues are:



Je r u s a l e m , t h e refugees, the borders, settlement,



an d w a t e r .



A n d I think the first attempt since then,



wh e n t h e r e w a s an Israeli -Palestinian attempt to



ta c k l e s u c h i s s ues was made in Camp David in 2002,



an d w e a l l k n o w and remember the results of Camp



Da v i d . I t h i n k , upon reaching the issue of



Je r u s a l e m a n d , mainly, the refugees, because there



is m a y b e n o c o n cession between the two parties on



ce r t a i n i s s u e s . And I think if there is a



co n c e s s i o n i n c ertain issue -- of those can be t aken



on t h e a c c o u n t of the other issue.



B u t m a inly, I think the main obstacle will



re m a i n J e r u s a l e m, the refugees, and the



se t t l e m e n t s .



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



N e x t , ma'am, if you want to, again,



in t r o d u c e y o u r s elf and tell us --



M S . K A TKHOUDA: Ryme Katkhouda with the





39

jcp 40







Fr e e S p e e c h R a d io News, Pacific Radio Network, and



th e P e o p l e ‟ s M e dia Center.



B e s i d e s the points that most of you



me n t i o n e d , I w o uld love to hear some more co mm ents



of t h e l i k e l i h o od, if at all, of a practical peace



in i t i a t i v e w i t h the subtraction of Hamas, which was



de m o c r a t i c a l l y elected Palestinian leadership, from



th e t a b l e , i n t he shadow of an Israeli world



co n s t r u c t e d o n Palestinian land and fracturing th e



Pa l e s t i n i a n t e r ritories, United States dollars



fu n d i n g b o t h t h is war and the Israeli army and



st a t e , a n d t h e United States and European blockade



ar o u n d G a z a a s we speak.



M R . C A ROOM: Let me ask that Mr. Foquaha



sp e a k f i r s t t o especially address the que stion of



Ha m a s a n d i t s p articipation.



M R . F O QUAHA: Yeah.



W e l l , you know, in 2006 -- in January 20 06,



th e r e w e r e g e n e ral elections in Palestine, and



Ha m a s w o n t h e e lections. Hamas won the elections



by t h e m a j o r i t y -- they took the majority of seats by



mi n o r i t y o f v o t es, by 42 percent.



T h i s i s not the issue. They were





40

jcp 41







de m o c r a t i c a l l y elected, but since their election,



in f a c t , a l o t of the problems arise.



F i r s t of all, they were even not that



re a d y f o r p l a y i ng part of the Palestinian political



sy s t e m .



A n d u n fortunately also, the whole world



wa s n o t r e a d y t o deal with them, but endless



at t e m p t s w e r e m ade since then until June 2007 in



or d e r t o i n t e g r ate them within the Palestinian



po l i t i c a l s y s t e m.



T h e y w ere given the chance to establish a



Pa l e s t i n i a n g o v ernment, which they did, until April



20 0 7 , w h e r e M e c ca Agreement was concluded and



si g n e d b e t w e e n Fatah and Hamas. Fatah was



re p r e s e n t e d b y President Mahmoud Abbas, and Hamas



by t h e t h e n P r i me Minister, where a National Unity



Go v e r n m e n t w a s formed w ith the participation of the



di f f e r e n t P a l e s tinian political groups and



fa c t i o n s , a n d w here this government started to



de l i v e r , t h o u g h within limited percentage.



B u t u n fortunately, we were all, not only



su r p r i s e d , b u t shocked, with the coup that Hamas



ha s m a d e o r l a u nched on the 14 t h of June, where





41

jcp 42







ma n y P a l e s t i n i a ns lost their lives. But still, we



do b e l i e v e , r e a lly, that this is internal



Pa l e s t i n i a n h a l lmark, and this issue will always



re m a i n o n t h e t op of the Palestinian agenda, and



th a t r e q u i r e s t o be solved.



N o w , t he Palestinians are represented at



th e A n n a p o l i s C onference by President Mahmoud



Ab b a s , w h o i s e lected by the majority of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n s . By the way, he is an elected



Pa l e s t i n i a n p r e sident, and the majority which



el e c t e d P r e s i d e nt Mah moud Abbas is much more t han



th e m a j o r i t y w h ich elected Hamas. And he was



di r e c t l y e l e c t e d by the people, so he has the full



an d c o m p l e t e m a ndate to represent the Palestinians.



W e l l , in fact, I would like also to



co m m e n t o n t h e issue of the Wall. The W all is a



re a l p r o b l e m , a nd the Wall is now one of the main



ob s t a c l e s , a l s o . The Wall has created what we call



th e s t a t u s q u o on the Palestinian territories, and



co n t i n u i n g t h e Wall, and increasing the Wall -- we



al w a y s w a r n t h a t this Wall may make the princ iple



of a t w o- s t a t e solution no more possible, and which



le a d u s b a c k t o a one - state solution, which is no





42

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so l u t i o n a t a l l .



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



A n d M r . Raz, if you want to comment on the



sa m e q u e s t i o n , and perhaps, if you might, since we



ha d M r . F o q u a h a comment about the political



st r e n g t h t h a t P resident Abbas would need to go



fo r w a r d w i t h t h e peace negotiations, you might also



co m m e n t a b o u t t he political strength that would be



ne c e s s a r y f o r P rime Minister Olmert to do the same



th i n g , s i n c e h e als o has some difficulty with his



po p u l a r s u p p o r t at this time.



M R . R A Z: Yes. I want to say that, first



of a l l , w i t h H a mas, this is -- this is an interi or



Pa l e s t i n i a n i s s ue. It is not for us to decide who



is r e p r e s e n t i n g the Palestinian people.



A n d i f to day the representative of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n p e o ple are not moderate enough, I



be l i e v e t h a t , t omorrow, they will be moderate



en o u g h .



Y o u s a y that Hamas was elected in



de m o c r a t i c e l e c tions, maybe according to American



st a n d a r d s , n o t according to the Israeli standards,



bu t i t i s u p t o you to decide.





43

jcp 44







A c c o r d ing --for your question about the



Wa l l , I a m s o r r y not to agree with you. I think



th a t t h e W a l l - - first, building a wall on the ‟ 67



bo r d e r - -o n t h e border between Israeli and



Pa l e s t i n e , i s l egitimate. This w all is not on the



bo r d e r , a n d t h i s is the problem with this wall,



wh i c h v i o l a t e s human rights, which confiscates



la n d s , a n d w h i c h is making a lot of problems.



B u t b e lieve me, the problem is not the



Wa l l , t h e p r o b l em is the settlements. This wall



wi l l f a l l i n o n e day after the decision. No single



se t t l e r i s g o i n g to protest. It is easier -- I am



te l l i n g y o u , I know that it is easier to demolish



70 0 k i l o m e t e r s of wall than one house in a



se t t l e m e n t , a n d we will have to demolish tens of



th o u s a n d s o f h o uses . So, the Wall is not the



pr o b l e m .



I t i s the problem right now, yes, of human



ri g h t s , b u t v i s -à -vis the question of the final



st a t u s a g r e e m e n t between Palestine and Israel it is



no t h i n g , n o t h i n g. There is no reason to talk about



th a t a t a l l .



A n d a c cording to the political situation





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jcp 45







in I s r a e l - - f i r s t, according to Israeli law, if



Ol m e r t w a n t s t o make a compromise in Jerusalem, he



mu s t f i r s t g e t 50 percent of the votes in the



pa r l i a m e n t , i n the Knesset, and then go to a



re f e r e n d u m .



S o , f o r every -- let‟s say, for every de al



be t w e e n - - r e a l d eal between Palestine and Israel,



ev e r y p e a c e a g r eement, we will need a referendum.



I a m o ptimistic. I believe that, even if



to d a y t h e m a j o r ity of Israelis cannot accept the



co n d i t i o n s , i n the right day, they will acc ept



th a t .



A n d w e have seen in the past that it



ha p p e n e d a g a i n and again: people opposed to



so l u t i o n s , a n d when they saw that this is on the



ta b l e , t h e y a c c epted that.



M S . K A TKHOUDA; [Off Microphone.]



M R . C A ROOM: Let me ask that we let some



of o u r o t h e r q u estioners get their questions in.



B u t b e fore we do that, let me add



so m e t h i n g e l s e , and I‟ll ask our speakers if they



ag r e e .



I n o u r preparation for this program, we





45

jcp 46







ha d d i s c u s s e d t he question of the strength of



su p p o r t p o l i t i c ally for President Abbas and fo r



Pr i m e M i n i s t e r Olmert. And I believe each of you



ge n t l e m e n h a d s aid that you believe that there was



a p o s s i b i l i t y t hat if a successful agreement was



re a c h e d , t h a t c ould boost their popularity and



bo o s t t h e i r s u p port, because, currently, the



su r v e y s s h o w , I think, roughly two -thirds of t he



pu b l i c , b o t h I s raeli and Palestinian, support the



co n c e p t o f a p e ace agreement.



I s t h a t a fair statement, Gentlemen?



Okay. Sir, if you want to, again,



in t r o d u c e y o u r s elf and then give us your question.



M R . S M ITH: My name is Dan Smith. I am a



lo c a l m e r c h a n t here in the Annapolis --



M R . C A ROOM: And let me ask you to hold it



cl o s e t o y o u r - -



M R . S M ITH: Okay. Is this better?



M y n a m e is Dan Smith. I am a local



me r c h a n t h e r e i n the Annapolis area.



T h i s i s for Mr. Raz and Mr. Foquaha. You



ge n t l e m e n a r e o bviously optimistic. Thank God for



th a t o p t i m i s m , because without it there would be no





46

jcp 47







ho p e .



B u t u n fortunately, there seems to be an



80 0 - p o u n d g o r i l la in the room. Whether we like to



ta l k a b o u t i t o r not, what we have is a majority is



we t h i n k w e h a v e -- that 800 - pound gorilla, also



kn o w n a s t h o s e who hold the power and those who are



ac t u a l l y m a k i n g a profit by having conflict, have



sw a y a n d a r e i n control, and a large part of the



go v e r n m e n t a n d a large part of the media.



M y q u e stion is simple and yet it is not



si m p l e a t a l l . How do you go forward? How do you



de a l k n o w i n g t h at there is an 800 - pound gorill a in



th e r o o m ?



T h a n k you.



M R . C A ROOM: So, your question, I guess --



le t u s s t a r t w i th M r. Raz -- is we know that there



ar e p e o p l e i n b usiness who sell weapons, who



su p p o r t t h e d e f ense industry, which provides $3



bi l l i o n p e r y e a r in support to Israeli, and $150



mi l l i o n , o n e -t w entieth of that amount of suppo rt,



to t h e P a l e s t i n ians Arabs.



T h e r e a re Americans making a profit from



th e c o n f l i c t . What do you think that Americans





47

jcp 48







mi g h t d o t o r e s pond to that economic interest that



pe r h a p s s o m e m a y have in continuing the conflict?



M R . R A Z: I am not sure that I know what



to t e l l t h e A m e ricans to do.



A n d u n fortunately, people all over the



wo r l d , i t i s n o t only Americans: it is Israelis, it



is P a l e s t i n i a n s , and all over the world -- want



mo n e y , w a n t t o make business, want to earn money,



an d t h e y s e l l w eapons.



B u t I want to tell you one thing. I feel



th a t , i n A m e r i c a, you have -- what? -- 200 million guns



or s o m e t h i n g l i ke that. It doesn‟t mean that



ev e r y b o d y w h o h as a gun, who owns a gun, uses a



gu n , a n d I b e l i eve that the same should be in the



Mi d d l e E a s t : N ot everybody who owns a gun or



we a p o n s h o u l d u se it.



A n d I hope that people will not make a



bu s i n e s s o f t h a t, but the fact -- nations, Israeli,



Pa l e s t i n e , o t h e r nations, have an army doesn‟t say



th a t t h e y m u s t use this army. Hopefully both will



no t h a v e t o u s e their army.



M R . C A ROOM: Mr. Foquaha , do you want to



sa y s o m e t h i n g a bout the profit, the business





48

jcp 49







qu e s t i o n i n t h e conflict.



M R . F O QUAHA: All I can say -- stop this



ty p e o f b u s i n e s s. It is not only the work of --the



pr o f i t a b l e i s p oor, although it did -- but still, I



th i n k t h e r e i s always a ch ance for business, f or



in v e s t m e n t , f o r doing profits in peace and in times



of p e a c e , w h e r e investments and joint projects,



in t e r n a t i o n a l v entures can be done in the Middle



ea s t a t t h e t i m e of peace, but not in a time of



wa r - - i s w h a t I can say in this regar d.



M R . C A ROOM: Millions of new Palestinian



cu s t o m e r s .



O u r n e xt question, sir, if you want to



in t r o d u c e y o u r s elf first and then tell us your



qu e s t i o n .



M R . C A YMEN: My name is Jay Caymen [ph.],



an d I ‟ m f r o m t h e One Voice Movement.



A n d I ‟ d like to sa y, for everyone in the



ro o m , a s s o m e o n e also working in the Middle East in



co n f l i c t r e s o l u tion, how much respect everyone from



On e V o i c e h a s f or yourselves and everyone doing the



ve r y i m p o r t a n t work that you are at Geneva.



A n d m y question to you is about how you





49

jcp 50







de a l w i t h t h e e nemies of peace. And I come here



to d a y w i t h a t l east some hope about kick -starting a



pr o c e s s - - y o u k n ow, no real hopes for any massive



st e p s f o r w a r d o ver the next couple of days, but



re a l l y t h a t P r e sident Abbas and Prime Minister



Ol m e r t m i g h t b e able to get a process moving in the



ri g h t d i r e c t i o n again.



A n d i t was really disheartening to hear, I



th i n k , a t 1 1 : 3 0 a.m. tomorrow, at Gate One, there



is g o i n g t o b e a group of people protesting against



th e A n n a p o l i s S ummit, against the ve ry idea of



ne g o t i a t i o n s a n d these leaders coming together --not



ev e n o n t h e c o n tent, just the idea of working



to w a r d s t h i s s o lution.



A n d I wanted to know what you would advise



my s e l f a n d t h e good people in this room -- and, I



me a n , I a m h o p i ng that these pe ople in this ro om



wi l l b e j o i n i n g me at 11:30 to protest against them



ra t h e r t h a n t o support them, but how you deal with



th o s e p e o p l e w h o are intrinsically, ideologically,



ag a i n s t t h e v e r y idea of leaders coming together to



tr y t o f i n d a w ay out -- not even dictating what that



wa y o u t m i g h t b e?





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jcp 51







M R . C A ROOM: I‟ve been informed that some



of t h e s o u n d q u ality is not good in the back of the



ro o m .



S o , w h at we want to do is -- we‟re hearing



th a t t h e m i c r o p hone which is in the hand of our



yo u n g F r i e n d , M artin, is working better than t hese



mi c r o p h o n e s .



S o , w e ‟re going to pass this microphone up



he r e . A n d t h e n , afterwards, we‟ll invite



qu e s t i o n e r s t o come up to this microphone.



O u r f r iend who asked that question was, I



th i n k , a s k i n g , “Is there anything that ei ther of



yo u t h i n k w o u l d be helpful to kick start the



pr o c e s s ? ” I t h ink that was the question.



M r . R a z, do you want to say anything to



re s p o n d t o t h a t ?



M R . R A Z: Yes, I saw -- me and Mr. Foquaha,



we s a w t o d a y t h e demonstration downtown against the



Su m m i t , a n d p r o bably more protesters will come



to m o r r o w t o p r o test.



I d o n ‟ t call these people “peace enemies,”



be c a u s e t h i s i s a democratic country, Israel is a



de m o c r a t i c c o u n try, too, and people, if they want





51

jcp 52







to p r o t e s t - - t h e re was a very large protest again st



th e S u m m i t y e s t erday night in Jerusalem. There was



th o u s a n d s o f p a rticipants. This is their right to



pr o t e s t , t o d e m onstrate. They are not enemies.



Th e e n e m i e s a r e those who use guns, use violence



ag a i n s t t h e p e a cemakers. And I hope that we will



no t f i n d s u c h e nemies. If we do, we will have to



de a l w i t h t h e m in the way that a country deals with



vi o l e n t p e o p l e . We have a law, and we will have to



de a l a c c o r d i n g to this law.



M R . C A ROOM: Let me ask if you are hearing



in t h e b a c k .



A U D I E N CE: I thi nk it actually made it



wo r s e .



M R . C A ROOM: Okay. Well, I am going to



gi v e t h i s m i c r o phone back to you, but the answer to



th e q u e s t i o n t h at Mr. Raz has given us is that it



is a f r e e c o u n t ry and protestors should be allowed



to b e h e a r d . I t is just the pe ople who use



vi o l e n c e a g a i n s t peacemakers that the country will



ha v e t o d e a l w i th as nations deal with violent



pe o p l e .



A n d I ‟ m going to give you this mike for





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jcp 53







th e n e x t a n s w e r .



A n d M r . Foquaha, do you want to comment on



th a t ?



M R . F O QUAHA: Today, we have this



ex p e r i e n c e o f m eeting people who protest against



th e A n n a p o l i s - - but I want to say -- that now the



co n f l i c t i s n o more in the same way it was years



ag o .



H o w e v e r, now, a conflict also between the



mo d e r a t e s a n d t he extremists -- I think the



ex t r e m i st s o n b oth sides, the Palestinian and



Is r a e l i s i d e , d o have a common interest -- do have



on e i n t e r e s t .



A n d f o r the moderates, they also do have



on e i n t e r e s t , w hich we really shall fight for and



sh a l l d e f e n d a n d advocate. And for the guy -- I



th i n k h e i s f r o m the One Voice Movement -- I think



th e y h a d s u c h a n experience last month in the



re g i o n w h e r e t h ey found themselves even in a



po s i t i o n t o c a n cel a program which was scheduled to



ta k e p l a c e i n b oth Jericho and Tel Aviv.



I t w a s a joint project, and it was a



pr o j e c t w h e r e e xtremists stood against.





53

jcp 54







M R . C A ROOM: Okay. Let me, I guess,



in v i t e y o u t o c ome up and use this microphone, if



yo u w o u l d .



And...



M S . G O RMAN: My name is Heather Gorman,



an d e a r l i e r y o u had said you are trying to change



th e s t e r e o t y p e s that each side of you have against



th e o t h e r s i d e , and accepting each other‟s



di f f e r e n c e s , a n d accepting each other.



I w a s wondering, even though you say the



co n f l i c t i s n o longer as it used to be, have there



be e n a n y e f f o r t s made to encourage forgiv eness on



bo t h s i d e s f o r the wrongs that have been committed



by t h e o t h e r p a rty against the other, so that true



pe a c e c a n e n d u r e for a long time.



T h a t ‟ s it.



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



L e t m e , I guess -- okay.



T h e q u estion was, “Has there been an



ef f o r t t o e n c o u rage meetings of Palestinian and



Is r a e l i p e o p l e to basically ask forgiveness to make



am e n d s f o r s o m e of the harm that has been done on



bo t h s i d e s ? ”





54

jcp 55







A n d I have forgotten where we are and who



wa s g o i n g f i r s t . I think maybe it is Mr. Foquaha‟s



tu r n t o a n s w e r the question first.



D o y o u want to respond to that?



M R . F O QUAHA: Well, now, we have



oc c u p a t i o n o f t he region. Israel occupies



Pa l e s t i n e , b u t they show forgiveness, tolerance,



ac c e p t i n g t h e o ther, as many show -- which we do work



on n o w a d a y s .



W e d o educate a culture of peace. This is



a c u r r i c u l u m a p proach by Palestinian civil society



or g a n i z a t i o n s . We go to schools, to universities.



We g o t o c o m m u n ities and the refugee camps, try to



cr e a t e a n e w a t mosphere, a new culture, on the



ot h e r - - b a s e d o n forgiveness and tolerance.



F r a n k l y speaking, let me tell you



so m e t h i n g t h a t this --this is, by the way, not an



ea s y p r o c e s s , a nd so far, the occupation is still --



an d I t h i n k w e will have the best opportunity to



ta l k a b o u t f o r g iveness and creating a n ew real ity



in t h e M i d d l e E ast immediately after putting an end



to t h e o c c u p a t i on.



M R . R A Z: I have nothing to add.





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M R . C A ROOM: Okay. Thank you.



S i r , d o you want to come up and --



ho p e f u l l y , t h i s microphone will work better.



M R . J O HNSON: Yes, My na me is Steve



Jo h n s o n . I a m an Annapolis resident and a member



of F i r s t P r e s b y terian Church in Annapolis, and I



wa n t t o t h a n k b oth our hosts and our guests this



ev e n i n g . T h i s is a wonderful event.



M y q u e stion is this. My impression is



th a t , b o t h i n P ale stine and Israel, there is a real



te n s i o n b e t w e e n those who see the rule of law as



th e b a s i s f o r p eace and those who see the rule of



fo r c e a s t h e o n ly answer for their society.



A n d t h ere are many that think the U.S.



go v e r n m e n t h a s not played as creative a role as it



co u l d i n d i s c o u raging those who favor the rule of



fo r c e .



I w a s wondering if you can comment on your



id e a l v i s i o n o f the role the U.S. government ought



to p l a y g o i n g f orward in this situation.



T h a n k you.



M R . C A ROOM: That would be for Mr. Raz



fi r s t .





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M R . R A Z: For my opinion, the role of the



U. S . g o v e r n m e n t should be in three parts.



F i r s t , I think that the U.S. government



mu s t c o o p e r a t e with others, mainly the EU. I think



th a t t h e y h a v e to work in cooperation, because, in



a w a y , i f y o u l ook at the U.S., the Palestinia ns



lo o k a t t h e U . S . -- of course, I am exaggerating a



li t t l e b i t - - l i k e, pro - Israeli, not as, you know,



ne u t r a l . I s r a e l looks at the United States as the



be s t f r i e n d o f Israel.



I f y o u look at Europe, Israelis look at



Eu r o p e a s a n t i - Semites, anti - Israeli, and, of



co u r s e , p r o - A r a b. The Palestinians see Europe a



be t t e r w a y .



I t h i n k if they cooperate, they can



im p o s e - -y e s , I would even use the word “impose ” -- a



ki n d o f a g r e e m e nt on the Israelis and Palestinians.



Th e y c a n t a k e G eneva Initiative, for example, and



to s a y - -t h e U . S . should say, “The Israeli



go v e r n m e n t , y o u must accept that.”



E U s h o uld say, “The Palestinian



go v e r n m e n t , y o u must accept that.”



N o w , t hey do the opposite. U.S. has no





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cr e d i b i l i t y a m o ng the Palestin ians. They tell them



wh a t t o d o ; t h e y don‟t do.



E U h a s no credibility among the Israelis.



Th e y t e l l t h e m what to do; they don‟t do. They



ha v e t o d o e x a c tly the opposite.



A n d t h en, to tell them, “You have to do



„o n e , ‟ „ t w o , ‟ „ three,‟ according to the agreement



th a t y o u j u s t s igned.”



L e t ‟ s take a look at the road map. Four



ye a r s a g o - - t h i s is President Bush -- the road ma p was



vi o l a t e d b y P a l estine, was violated by Israeli, but



wa s v i o l a t e d b y the United States by not imposing,



by n o t m o n i t o r i ng, was violated by Europe by not



mo n i t o r i n g t h e road map. That is what they are to



do , a c c o r d i n g t o the road map. So, they should do



th a t . T h i s i s the rule according to the road map.



Th e y s h o u l d i m p ose -- this is their role accordi ng to



th e r o a d m a p .



A n d t h e third track should be an



em p o w e r i n g - - e n c ouraging people -to - people activ ity,



pe a c e a c t i v i t y , joint activities of the Israelis



an d P a l e s t i n i a n s. I think if they work at those



th r e e t a s k s , E u rope and U.S. can achieve much more





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th a n - - a c t u a l l y nothing that the y achieve now -- is



al l t h e e f f o r t s -- a lot of efforts. I appreciate



th o s e e f f o r t s , but not in the right direction.



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



M r . F o quaha, do you want to respond as to



wh a t y o u t h i n k the best role for the U.S.



go v e r n m e n t c o u l d be?



M R . F O QUAHA: Well, in addition to what my



fr i e n d M o s s i j u st said, I think the American



ad m i n i s t r a t i o n now is asked to assign a number of



st a f f a n d A m e r i can -- and a number of officials who



ar e e d u c a t e d a n d well acknowledged by -- in the



af f a i r s o f t h e region, in ord er to help both



pa r t i e s t o n e g o tiate the different issues



im m e d i a t e l y f o l lowing the Annapolis -- limiting their



po l i c y o n h a v i n g frequent visits by the state --the



He a d o f t h e S t a te Department by Mrs. Rice is not by



it s e l f s u f f i c i e nt. They need to have a sta ff who



is e x i s t i n g i n the region who has a direct and



cl o s e c o n t a c t w ith the two sides of the conflict in



or d e r t o r e a c h a solution.



M R . C A ROOM: Sir, do you want to come on



up t o t h i s m i c r ophone in front?





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M R . S A LUM: Good evening, gentlemen.



M y n a m e is Fareed Salum [ph.], and I



ap p r e c i a t e y o u r coming in, and thank you, and



ce r t a i n l y a p p l a ud the work you‟ve done.



T h e q u estion I have is, and we‟ve touched



on a l i t t l e b i t , and I was hoping you might be able



to a r t i c u l a t e i t a little bit better -- I have always



fe l t t h a t t h e s olution needs to -- always felt that



Ha m a s n e e d s t o be part of the solution, and I was



cu r i o u s a b o u t y our perspective on that.



Y o u- - M r . Raz, you mentioned that Abbas got



el e c t e d - - o r m a y be Foquaha -- I‟m not --by the



ma j o r i t y , w h i c h is g reat.



T h e p r oblem with peace is not the



ma j o r i t y , i t i s the minority; it is the extremists,



as y o u k n o w .



A n d s o , I am kind of curious about your



pe r s p e c t i v e o n Hamas being part of the solution



ra t h e r t h a n d e a ling with everybody else.



T h a n k you.



M R . C A ROOM: And let me ask Mr. Foquaha to



sp e a k t o t h a t q uestion first.



H o w c a n Hamas be brought into the process?





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M R . F O QUAHA: Well, unfortunately, Hamas



ha s e l e c t e d t o be part of the problem but not part



of t h e s o l u t i o n .



A s I s aid in my presenta tion, they wer e



gi v e n t h e o p p o r tunity, in fact, to be part of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n p o l itical system to establish



go v e r n m e n t , t o - -a role -- but unfortunately, to no



av a i l .



N o w , H amas, as a party, as a Palestinian



pa r t y , a n d a s I said and repeat, this internal



Pa l e s t i n i a n i s s ue will be tackled internally and



wi l l b e s o l v e d internally by the Palestinians



le a d e r s h i p .



B u t a t the end of the day, the



Pa l e s t i n i a n s a r e now represented here by President



Ma h m o u d A b b a s .



A n d H a mas is growing now in the Gaza



St r i p . I s e e t his sort -- the balance of weakne ss --



no w , t h e P a l e s t inians are suffering from this



di v i s i o n b e t w e e n the West Bank and the Gaza Strip,



an d t h e r o l e o f Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and



wo r k i n g t o c r e a te, really, a real tragedy to the



Pa l e s t i n i a n s , t he life there in the Gaza Strip ,





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un f o r t u n a t e l y , is a type of misery. The people



th e r e a r e s u f f e ring.



A n d n o w, even the public opinion polls are



sh o w i n g d e c l i n e [in the] majority of Hamas. The



Ha m a s p e r c e n t a g e in the Gaza Strip is declining now



be t w e e n a d a y a nd ano ther, and this represents the



di s s a t i s f a c t i o n and the disagreement of the people



of t h e G a z a S t r ip on what Hamas is doing there.



M R . C A ROOM: Mr. Raz, do you want to say



an y t h i n g a b o u t bringing Hamas into the process?



M R . R A Z: Not really.



A s I s aid before, Hamas is an interior



Pa l e s t i n i a n i s s ue, and I always hope that my



ne i g h b o r s w i l l be more and more moderate, and my



fr i e n d s o r m y b rothers in my country will be more



mo d e r a t e , a n d t hen we will solve the problem easier



an d e a r l i e r .



M R . C A ROOM: Tha nk you. We have time for



on e o r t w o m o r e questions, and then we need to move



to o u r c o n c l u s i on in order to finish by 9:00.



Okay. Mr. McClelland.



M R . M c CLELLAND: Good evening and thank



yo u v e r y m u c h f or coming. I sincerely appreciate





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it .



I w a n t ed to ask a question on somethin g a



li t t l e o f f t h e focus but right in the immediate



ar e a , a n d t h a t is, “What do you see the role -- and



ho w t o g e t m o r e cooperation, especially with these



Ge n e v a A c c o r d s - -the role of Syria and Lebanon, and



wh a t t h e y c a n d o to fur ther this peace process, and



ma y b e p u t - - d o y ou see any help from either of those



tw o , m a y b e , i n helping you deal with Hamas, which



ob v i o u s l y i s a very big thorn here?”



W h i c h e ver one wants to take it first.



M R . C A ROOM: That will be Mr. Raz.



M R . R A Z: I think the role of Syria and



Le b a n o n i s q u i t e clear.



A s I s aid before, I totally accept the



Ar a b L e a g u e I n i tiative. And they say it in so many



wo r d s , t h a t I s r ael has to withdraw to ‟67 borders,



me a n i n g t o w i t h draw from the occupied Golan, and



th e n a l l t h e 2 2 members in the Arab League should



ma k e a p e a c e a g reement and normalization with



Is r a e l .



A n d t h is includes Lebanon, but there is



so m e d i s a g r e e m e nt about lands between Israel and





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Le b a n o n , b u t i t is not really disagreement, because



th o s e l a n d s t h a t the Lebanese say that Israel



oc c u p i e d , I s r a e l says -- and actually, this is the



re a l i t y , t h a t I srael occupied from the Syrians.



S o , t h e only question is, “Is it Syrian or



Le b a n e s e ? ” A n d this is for them to solve between



th e m , b u t I t h i nk that Israel sh ould withdraw from



th e G o l a n , a n d all the 22 members, the Arab League,



sh o u l d m a k e p e a ce agreements with Israel.



M R . C A ROOM: Mr. Foquaha, do you want to



sa y s o m e t h i n g a bout the role of Syria and Lebanon?



M R . F O QUAHA: Well, maybe on the role of



Sy r i a , w h a t I c an say is, as we all know, that they



ar e a m o n g t h e v ery few supporters of the



Pa l e s t i n i a n e x t remists in Syria.



A n d w h at I say in this regard -- now, the



Sy r i a n s a r e p a r ticipating in the Annapolis



Co n f e r e n c e , a n d in this occasion, I‟d like to call



up o n e v e n t h e m and others that Syrians must stop



us i n g t h e c a r d of the Palestinian - Israeli conf lict



fo r a c h i e v i n g t heir own interests and purposes.



Th e y c a n d e a l w ith Israel in a different way, but



no t t h r o u g h t h e Palestinians and not through using





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Ha m a s o r a n y o t her Palestinian faction in order to



ac h i e v e s o m e o f the Syrian interests in this



re g a r d .



W e d o n ‟t have any problem with the Syrians



ha v i n g d i r e c t n egotiations with Israel for



re t u r n i n g b a c k the Golan Heights, which we consider



an o c c u p i e d A r a b l and, but we don‟t like the way in



wh i c h S y r i a n s a nd other states -- in which they are



tr y i n g t o s u p p o rt Hamas and to support other



Pa l e s t i n i a n e x t reme forces against the Palestinian



le g i t i m a t e g o v e rnment.



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



Sir. Again, we will ask you to introd uce



yo u r s e l f a n d t h en give us your question.



M R . R I FKEN: My name is Earl Rifken [ph.],



an d I a m a r e s i dent of Annapolis.



T h a n k you both very much for being here.



Th a n k y o u , o r g a nizers, for organizing this.



M y q u e stion is this. You‟ve spoken a lot



ab o u t t h e p r i m a ry issues that are holding up a



pe a c e a g r e e m e n t , and people that have been involved



wi t h a p r o c e s s know what the issues are, and they



al s o k n o w w h a t some of the solutions will be,





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pa r t i c u l a r l y w h en it comes to settlements, and the



Ge n e v a I n i t i a t i ve is not talking about getting rid



of a l l t h e s e t t lements; you‟re talking about a land



sw a p , a n d , i n a sense, a population swap as well,



al o n g G a z a , a l o ng the West Bank, around Jerusalem



So , t h a t ‟ s a p o litical question.



E v e n J erusal em, the city of Jerusalem, as



vo l a t i l e a q u e s tion as that is, you‟re talking



ab o u t l a n d .



I t w o u ld seem to me that the more



di f f i c u l t q u e s t ion, because it gets to the



ps y c h o l o g i c a l b asis, which is beyond a political



ba s i s , o f t h e i mpasse, is the refugee r eturn --



re t u r n o f t h e r efugees.



W h e n P alestinians say that -- what they are



sa y i n g i s t h a t Israel is responsible for everything



th a t h a p p e n e d , and the only way Israel can rectify



is b y g i v i n g b a ck everything --



M R . C A ROOM: Sir, is there a question?



M R . R I F KEN: Yes, there is. When Israelis



he a r t h a t , y o u ‟ re saying that you want to destroy



Is r a e l a s a J e w ish state. So, there‟s this deep,



de e p p s y c h o l o g i cal conflict here.





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H o w d o you get to the practical basis of



wo r k i n g w i t h t h at question and coming up with a



se t t l e m e n t t h a t both sides will live with, no



ma t t e r h o w m u c h they hate it?



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



Okay. We may have time for yet a few more



qu e s t i o n s , b u t let me, I guess, invite -- I think it



is M r . R a z ‟ s t u rn to respond to that first -- to



re s p o n d t o t h a t question.



T h e r e , I guess, is a great psychological



fe a r t h a t g o e s with making the commitment to work



on t h e r e f u g e e problem.



W h a t w ould you say in response that?



M R . R A Z: Mr. Rifken, you are absolutely



ri g h t .



T h e G e neva Initiative deals with a very, I



wo u l d s a y , i n f ront of my friend, a very positive



wa y v i s -à - v i s t he Israeli public opinion in this



qu e s t i o n , b e c a u se, actually, we will criticize even



on t h a t , o f c o u rse, but actually, Geneva Initiative



do e s n ‟ t e v e n m e ntion the term “ right of return ,”



an d t h e r e i s a kind of a solution -- more or les s, of



co u r s e I a m s u m marizing it. It is not 100 percent,





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bu t e v e r y r e f u g ee will declare what is his will, to



go t o I s r a e l , t o go to Palestine, to stay where he



is n o w , o r t o g o to a third cou ntry. And ever y



re f u g e e c a n g o back to Palestine.



T h i r d parties, third countries, including



We s t e r n c o u n t r i es, Muslim countries, Arab



co u n t r i e s , a n d Israel, will accept refugees. Every



co u n t r y , i n c l u d ing Israel, will declare what is the



nu m b e r o f r e f u g ees they are willing to accept.



S o , I think this is a solution I think 80



or 9 0 p e r c e n t o f the Israelis can live with,



be c a u s e i t i s t o Israel to declare what is the



nu m b e r o f r e f u g ees Israel is willing to accept.



A n d y o u have to know that Israel is



ac c e p t i n g r e f u g ees all the time, by, you know,



ma r r i a g e , a n d o ther ways of accepting refugees.



S o , o k ay, they can declare about 1,000,



10 , 0 0 0 , 1 0 0 , 0 0 0 in one year, two years, twenty



ye a r s - - I t h i n k every Israeli can live with that.



I w o u l d say, even mo re important than



th a t , l o o k a t w hat the Arab League Initiative --and



he r e , i t i s n o t only, you know -- the Geneva



In i t i a t i v e i s - - okay, it is part of the Palesti nian





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pe o p l e , y e s , a n d part of the Israeli people. Look



at t h e A r a b L e a gue Initiative supported by the 22



me m b e r s - - s t a t e members in the League, including



Pa l e s t i n e . T h e y say -- agreed solution to the



qu e s t i o n o f r e f ugees, meaning Israel has to agree.



An d t h i s i s w h a t 22 Arab states are declaring.



S o , I think that, yes, you‟re right. This



is a v e r y p r o b l ematic issue, but, yes, we can solve



th i s i s s u e a c c o rding to Geneva Initiative or Arab



Le a g u e I n i t i a t i ve. More or less, it is the same.



M R . C A ROOM: Thank you.



M r . F o quaha, do you want to respond to



th a t q u e s t i o n ?



M R . F O QUAHA: Not at all. Thank you. Not



at a l l .



M R . C A ROOM: Okay. Thank you. I need to



ap o l o g i z e t o t h e folks that have been waiting



pa t i e n t l y w i t h questions.



W e h e a rd a moment ago that St. Anne‟s said



we c a n s t a y l o n ger if we want, and then we heard



fr o m t h e A n n a p o lis Police Department, who are ready



to d i r e c t o u r t raffic when we leave -- they‟re



sa y i n g , “ Y o u c a n‟t stay,” that we have to stop at





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9: 0 0 , a n d t h a t was our plan when we began. So,



ag a i n , l e t m e t hank everyone for their patience.



B e f o r e we conclude, I want to invit e our



pi a n i s t a n d o u r leader for a final song. And at



th e s a m e t i m e t hat we‟re preparing to do that, I



wa n t t o i n v i t e some members of the Quaker Meeting



to p a s s o u t c a n dles, which we are going to



en c o u r a g e e v e r y one to carry as we leave the church,



a c a n d l e l i t p r o cession back to the community, back



to o u r h o m e s .



A s w e make these arrangements to get ready



fo r t h e c l o s i n g song for the candlelit procession,



fo r a m o m e n t o f silence to conclude, I would also



li k e t o s a y t h i s, that although we have a limited



ti m e t h i s e v e n i ng to speak to our visitors from



Is r a e l , f r o m P a lestine, from the Geneva Initiative,



me m b e r s o f t h e press who want to speak to them



la t e r a r e w e l c o me to do that, and can make an



ap p o i n t m e n t i f you are not able to stay this



ev e n i n g .



A n d m e mbe rs of the public who are here ,



an d y o u r f r i e n d s -- others that you are believing may



wa n t t o s u p p o r t the peace process, we encourage you





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jcp 71







to c o n t a c t t h e peacemakers at the Geneva Initiative



al s o . Y o u c a n do that by one of two ways. You



co u l d c o n t a c t t hem, p erhaps, through the Annap olis



Fr i e n d s M e e t i n g , the Quaker Meeting. We‟re in the



ph o n e b o o k , a n d we‟ll offer to be a conduit. Or you



ca n a l t e r n a t e l y go to their website, which is in



th e b o t t o m o f t he program, which is www.Geneva -



Ac c o r d . o r g , a n d they have a “contact us” link, and



I c a n t e l l y o u from experience they will contact



yo u . T h e y w i l l respond.



S o , i f you believe that you might, at your



pu b l i c h i g h s c h ool, or your other school, want to



sp o n s o r P a l e s t i nian and Israeli exchange students



to h e l p t h e m g e t to know each other, to help t hem



ge t t o k n o w w h a t it is like to live in a country



wh e r e p e o p l e o f different backgrounds can be



fr i e n d s , p l e a s e contact the Geneva Initiative.



I f y o u have other experiences that you



th i n k c o u l d b e useful to them, if the re is a



st u d e n t g o v e r n m ent process that someone could show



to t h e y o u n g p e ople in the Israeli and Palestinian



la n d s , h o w d e m o cracy works, so that they can



pr a c t i c e i t t h e mselves, please contact them. If





71

jcp 72







yo u k n o w s o m e o n e in television who thinks that you



c o u l d h e l p t h e m to start the Palestinian or Israeli



Op r a h s h o w , w h e re people from different backgrounds



co u l d c o m e a n d talk with Fatima or the equivalent



an d g e t t o k n o w each other in a more entertaining



wa y , p l e a s e c o n tact them. Any ideas and support



th a t y o u m a y h a ve from your personal background, I



th i n k , w o u l d b e welcome.



W e a r e not soliciting funds. We are not



as k i n g p e o p l e t o take partisan political action, to



vo t e f o r o n e p e rson or another, but we are asking



an d s u g g e s t i n g that you contact your el ected



re p r e s e n t a t i v e s and urge them to support the peace



pr o c e s s .



[ W h e r e upon, at 8:53, the open forum



co n c l u d e d . ]



[MUSIC]









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