MINUTES

							                                        MINUTES

                     BOARD FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS

Date:           January 13, 2005

Place:          500 N. Calvert Street
                3rd Floor Conference Room
                Baltimore, MD 21202

Present:        Melvin Hotz, Chairman
                Eugene C. Harvey, P.E., Vice Chairman
                H. C. Harclerode, P.E.
                Alison Hunt, P.E.
                Rosalind Yee
                Michael Howard

Absent:         Sallye Perrin, P.E.

Others:         Thomas L. Woods, Executive Director
                Pamela J. Edwards, Assistant Executive Director
                Milena Y. Trust, Assistant Attorney General
                Robert Mead, Executive Director, MSPE


CALL TO ORDER

         Chairman Hotz called the meeting to order at 9 a.m.

ACTION ON MINUTES

        Motion (I) was made by Mr. Harclerode, seconded by Ms. Hunt, and unanimously
carried by the Board to approve the minutes of the December 9, 2004 meeting with
corrections.

EXECUTIVE SESSION

       Motion (II) was made by Mr. Harclerode, seconded by Mr. Howard, and
unanimously carried by the Board to go into Executive Session at 9:30 a.m. at 500 N.
Calvert Street, 3rd Floor Conference Room, Baltimore, Maryland 21202. This session
was permitted to be closed pursuant to State Government Article, Title 10-508(a)(7).
Upon completion of the session, the Board reconvened its public meeting at 10:10 .m.
Board for Professional Engineers
Minutes – January 13, 2005
Page 2


COMPLAINT COMMITTEE REPORT

       Mr. Harvey provided the following report on the status of complaints discussed
by the Complaint Committee at its meeting on January 11, 2005.

       04-PE-03          Sent to AAG for pre-charge review.
       04-PE-13          Expert witness retained. Approval of expenditure needed.
       04-PE-15          OIS Report received. Matter on hold.
       04-PE-17 & 18     Matter on hold.
       05-PE-01 & 02     Sent to OIS.
       05-PE-11          Consent order signed and fine paid. Close.
       05-PE-12          Consent order signed and fine paid. Close.
       05-PE-15          No violation. Close.
       05-PE-16          Consent Order signed and fine paid. Close.
       05-PE-17          Recommend send to OIS.
       05-PE-18          Recommend send 10-day response letter.
       05-PE-19          Hold pending action by Architect Board.

      Motion (III) was made by Mr. Harclerode, seconded by Ms. Yee, and
unanimously carried by the Board to accept the report of the Complaint Committee.

        Discussion ensued concerning retention of expert witnesses and approval of
expenditure for services. It was noted that a list of expert witnesses must be established
through the procurement process. Motion (IV) was made by Ms. Yee, seconded by Mr.
Harclerode, that the necessary paperwork be processed to establish a list of experts in all
disciplines to be used for future cases.

CORRESPONDENCE

      A memo was received from NCEES pertaining to National Pass Rates from the
October, 2004 engineering exams. It was noted there is little difference in pass rates for
EAC/ABET graduates and non EAC/ABET graduates.

INFORMATION FROM THE CHAIRMAN

        Mr. Hotz said that it was not clearly determined at the last Board meeting whether
the answer sheet of an exam candidate found using an improper calculator would be
scored. Ms. Edward’s stated that NCEES’s policy clearly states that the “answer sheet
will not be scored.” The Board briefly discussed the new calculator policy and agreed
that candidates need to be notified as soon as possible via the Department’s webpage and
other means.
Board for Professional Engineers
Minutes – January 13, 2005
Page 3


       Mr. Hotz said the NCEES President’s Assembly is scheduled for February 10-12,
2005 in Kansas City, Missouri. Mr. Harvey and Mr. Woods will attend.

      Mr. Hotz read a letter from the Rhode Island Board nominating Larry Smith for
NCEES Northeast Zone Vice-President. Elections will be held at the Zone meeting in
Washington, D.C. in April.

         Mr. Hotz noted that Mr. Woods received an e-mail regarding on-line engineering
degrees from Mark Jones, Executive Director of the Ohio Board, who conducted an
MBA survey. The survey indicated that, of the 14 responses received, eight states
recognize on-line degrees and six do not. Mr. Hotz noted that the Maryland Board
regards such degrees as non-approved and does not recognize them under 14-305(b) or
(c) for credit. It was noted that accredited colleges offer on-line courses. After
discussion it was decided that on-line degrees should be evaluated under 14-305(c) and
the curriculum checklist will determine if the applicant is eligible.

OLD BUSINESS

Substantial Equivalency

       Mr. Hotz said that the issue of substantial equivalency was tabled at the December
meeting because results of the state survey on this topic were not available and Ms. Perrin
wished to have that information before the matter was discussed. Due to her absence, the
issue was once again tabled.

NEW BUSINESS

        Mr. Hotz referred to an article in MSPE’s “Engineering Times” concerning the
use of the title “Professional Engineer.” He asked Ms. Trust if it is permissible under
Maryland law to include one’s discipline in the title, e.g. “Professional Electrical
Engineer”. Ms. Trust stated that it would be confusing to the public and that licensees
should use the title “Professional Engineer.”

       Mr. Hotz raised the issue of a licensee taking the test again in another discipline
simply by choice. It was decided that requests should come before the Board. Mr. Hotz
asked staff to check if NCEES prohibits this practice.

LEGISLATION

        Mr. Hotz brought up the issue of the so-called “clean-up bill” and the fact that it
has not been re-introduced. Mr. Hotz stated that the Board is never informed as to what
Board for Professional Engineers
Minutes – January 13, 2005
Page 4


the problem is with the bill and why it does not get introduced until it is too late to revise
it. He said that he would like to be notified in a timely manner and would like to
understand why the bill does not get introduced. Ms. Trust said that the problem with
the bill in the previous administration was with the elimination of the “three times fail”
provision. Mr. Harclerode said that perhaps the bill could be re-written and some weight
added by including firm registration. Mr. Harvey said the Board should look at the law
and see what needs to be changed. Ms. Trust suggested doing a separate bill to eliminate
the limited license which is included now in the “clean-up” bill. She said the Land
Surveyors Board was successful in eliminating limited and temporary licenses from their
law several years ago.

        Mr. Hotz asked Mr. Harclerode to draft a recommendation eliminating the
limited license provision from the Engineers law for the 2006 General Assembly.

        Mr. Harclerode said that a number of states have provisions for firm permits.
Firms that hold themselves out as engineering firms must have a resident engineer on
staff, meaning that the P.E. is employed by the firm.

       Discussion followed on the firm requirements of the Architects, Land Surveyors,
and Landscape Architects Boards. They require the Certificates of Good Standing before
approval of the permit. It was decided that the Board should get input from the
Consulting Engineers Council before proceeding with legislation.

        Ms. Trust noted that the “knowingly” bill has been reintroduced. She said she
will keep the Board informed.

OTHER BUSINESS

        Mr. Hotz said that Board members should arrange their schedules so that they are
able to attend the entire Board meeting rather than leaving before it is adjourned.

APPLICATIONS APPROVED FOR RECIPROCITY

      Motion (V) was made by Mr. Harvey, seconded by Mr. Harclerode, and
unanimously carried by the Board to approve the following applications for reciprocity:

       Barry Abramson – 31384                          Frederick E. Ogden – 31398
       Thomas A. Baier – 31227                         Gilberto Olvera – 31224
       Errol C. Bisutti – 31385                        William T. Pochatko – 31062
       Dennis C. Chambers – 31228                      Robert J. Randall – 31399
       Matthew J. Crane – 31157                        Kent E. Sell – 31137
Board for Professional Engineers
Minutes – January 13, 2004
Page 5


APPLICATIONS APPROVED FOR RECIPROCITY (CONT’D)

       Bimal C. Devkota – 30980                     Gary C. Smith – 31154
       Tracy L. Dutting – 31387                     Jeffrey B. Smith – 31373
       Harold L. Foltz – 31388                      Larry R. Smith – 31133
       George B. Giddens – 31389                    Daniel S. Speakman – 31400
       James S. Kidwell – 31392                     Gary J. Steigman – 31401
       Scott T. Kupper – 31077                      David M. Sukinik – 31079
       Wilson W. Lee – 31393                        Yakup Tanoglu – 31402
       Jason P. Loar – 31100                        Patrick S. Thoma – 31116
       Thomas J. McDonell – 31394                   Timothy M. Utter – 31403
       Peter C. McDonough – 31126                   William R. Welch – 31405
       Michael E. McGettigan – 31395                Bradley R. Young – 31158
       John W. Norman – 31397                       Robert C. Ziltz, Jr. – 31407

APPLICATIONS APPROVED ADMINISTRATIVELY FOR RECIPROCITY

       The following applications, supported by NCEES Model Law Engineer files,
were administratively approved for licensure by the Assistant Executive Director of the
Board for Professional Engineers:

       Vincent J. Cichocki - 31386                  Steven D. Mitchell – 31161
       William F. Ehle – 31412                      David J. Oleynik – 31159
       Chris Horton – 31390                         John A. Pantelis, Jr. – 31117
       Kelly D. Huff – 31391                        Servando J. Perez – 31125
       Joel G. Johnson – 31130                      Robert Victor – 31404
       Hugh D. McMillan, III – 31396                Nicholas C. Wong – 31151

APPLICATION DENIED FOR LICENSURE BY RECIPROCITY

        Motion (VI) was made by Ms. Hunt, seconded by Mr. Harvey, and unanimously
carried by the Board to deny an application for licensure by reciprocity because the
applicant did not meet the requirements for licensure in the State of Maryland.
Board for Professional Engineers
Minutes – January 13, 2005
Page 6


ADJOURNMENT

       There being no further business, motion (VII) was made by Mr. Harclerode,
seconded by Mr. Harvey, and unanimously carried by the Board to adjourn the meeting at
12:20 p.m.

_____ With Corrections

_____ Without Corrections




__________________________                    ________________________
Melvin Hotz, Chairman                         Date


Corrections to the December 9, 2004 Minutes

Page Two, second paragraph after “Complaint Committee Report,” should read: “Mr.
Harvey further noted that the matter concerning the individual whose reinstatement was
not granted at last month’s meeting is still pending. A letter has been sent advising the
individual that he must re-take the exam in order to have his license reinstated. No
response has been received.”

Page Two, third paragraph after “Complaint Committee Report,” first sentence should
read: “Ms. Trust asked how long the Board should wait for a response from an individual
to whom a consent order was offered.”

Page Three, second paragraph, add the following sentence at the end: “This change goes
into effect with the October 2005 exam.”

Page Four, third paragraph, fourth sentence should read: “It was stated that Mr. Reed …”