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November 14, 2007





PINE PLAINS PLANNING BOARD MINUTES

NOVEMBER 14, 2007



IN ATTENDANCE: Don Bartles, Chair

Brian Coons

Bruce Pecorella

Jon DePreter

Kate Osofsky

Ken Mecciarello



ABSENT: Vikki Soracco



ALSO PRESENT: Warren Replansky

Ray Jurkowski

Nan Stolzenburg

Ross Williams, Town of Milan

16 members of the public



PARACO GAS: Bartles opened the meeting at 7:30 by reading the public hearing notice

for Paraco Gas. Mike DiGiorgio, Director of Transportation and Safety; Mark Demaura,

Vice President; and Paul Marshall, Regional Manager represented the applicant. Bartles

asked Paraco to give a short presentation outlining their proposed project. Bartles read a

letter from the Town Board granting Paraco a variance to the moratorium. DiGiorgio

gave the public a presentation on the addition of the 30,000 propane storage tank behind

the existing tank. DiGiorgio stated that this is one of the few facilities owned by Paraco

that has only one storage tank. He stated that having only one makes it difficult to have

enough storage on hand for the community and the accounts that are on hand in the

Town. He stated that if there is disruption or shortage in getting product, the extra

storage will give them enough product to service the community. DiGiorgio stated that

most facilities have anywhere from 2 to 4 storage tanks. DiGiorgio stated that all of their

competitors in the area have two storage tanks as opposed to their one. Bartles read a

letter from Pine Plains Fire Chief Thomas McGhee, Jr. into the record stating he has no

issues or concerns beyond having some emergency training for the site and has been

contacted by Paraco to set up said training. Bartles read a letter from Dan Adams into the

record objecting to the addition of the second tank and attached a digital photo showing

what he feels to be a site distance issue with Paraco’s current entrance. Bartles also read

a letter from Tom and Maryanne Lennon into the record objecting to the addition of the

second tank. Tom Lennon stated he objects to the addition of a second tank. He feels this

goes from propane storage to propane terminal. He stated he does not want a terminal

120 yards from his house. Lennon asked what area the existing tank services. Marshall

stated that the area is northern Putnam County, all of Dutchess and southern Columbia

County. DiGiorgio submitted a list of some of the large accounts they service in the area.

Lennon asked DiGiorgio to explain to the public what a bleve is. DiGiorgio stated that

there is a long, detailed explanation for what a bleve entails but it is rare. He stated it is a

boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion that comes when there is fire and flame

impingement on the vapor of a storage tank. He stated it is very, very rare and very







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controllable. Lennon asked if that would mean explosion. DiGiorgio stated absolutely

not. Lennon submitted to the Board several papers referring to and explaining bleves for

the file. Lennon also referred to a fire in Millerton several years ago involving propane

which took three days to control. Michelle Bloodgood expressed her objection to the

project. She stated that Millerton did not have the same geographic features as are

surrounding Paraco in Pine Plains. She stated there is a mountain on one side and trees

and water on the other so there is no way a fire truck is able to get to the site. Kim

Bloodgood expressed her objection to the project. She stated that all the houses around

the Millerton fire lost their ability to get fire insurance and their ability to sell them.

Brian Tallman expressed his objection to the project. Kim Bloodgood stated that the

fumes currently come into her home and linger for an hour due to bleed off which the

company states they have the right to do when filling the tanks. She stated the odor is

obnoxious. Gary Gent stated his objection to the project. He stated he has a million

safety concerns with regard to propane. He asked what the life expectancy of the original

tank is. DiGiorgio stated most tanks if well maintained will last a lifetime. Gent asked

what the maintenance of the tank is whether it is weekly or monthly. DiGiorgio stated

they have periodic maintenance that they are required to perform. He stated they have a

daily plant inspection where they check for leaks and make sure all valves are operating

properly. He stated they also do monthly and quarterly plant inspections. He stated they

also do an annual audit. He stated Paraco is a very safe, family owned and operated

company that has been in business for over 30 years and they comply with all regulatory

requirements set forth. He stated they are very proactive with training and have

committed to the community in writing to provide training to the Pine Plains Fire

Department. DiGiorgio stated he understands that the community is concerned about

safety and wants to make sure everyone is very familiar with the safety features of the

Paraco plant. He stated propane is one of the safest hazards and perils that are out there

today. He stated it has a very safe track record as far as grilling with propane. DiGiorgio

went over the safety features of the propane tank. DiGiorgio stated that Paraco has an

excellent safety record. Unidentified gentleman from Stissing Road asked if Paraco ever

had a problem with servicing the customers as far as running out of propane. DiGiorgio

stated yes they nearly ran out. The gentleman stated the main reason is to lower the price

and be more competitive not because of running out of product and he sees no reason to

put a second tank in. DeMaura stated it only takes some ice and snow or a trucking strike

to disrupt the flow of product and the present storage facility would not be enough.

DiGiorgio stated that there is an energy crisis right now and it is critical to plan ahead to

make sure they are able to service the people they are servicing now. He stated that one

interruption could cause them to run dry and that would be devastating. Ann Douglas

expressed her objection to the second tank. She asked if more trucks would be in and out

of the facility. She stated that she can’t sleep with the windows open in the summer

because of the odor and the trucks idle for hours waking them up every night. She stated

that even if the explosion factor is rare, if it happens it will be her house not someone

else’s. DiGiorgio stated they have a facility in the Bronx where it is very congested and

it has two vertical 30,000 gallon storage tanks. They have been operating there for 20

years with an excellent safety record. He asked the public to look at the project with an

open mind. He stated gasoline is more dangerous than propane and gasoline is

everywhere. Douglas stated she doesn’t want Pine Plains to be like the Bronx and that is







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why she lives here. Bartles stated that the Board has the point and it is noted. Pecorella

stated the public has the right to speak. Bartles stated they are saying the same thing over

and over again and the Board is well aware of the point. Jim Haire stated he agreed with

everything everyone already said and he objects to the project. His main concern is

safety and the truck traffic and the value of his property. Rich Maus stated he lives the

closest to the tank. He stated he has worked closely with propane over the last few years.

He stated propane tanks do not last forever and every single one has an expiration date on

it. He stated he does not want a second tank. He asked what the dumping of all the little

outdated propane tanks on the property says to the residents of Pine Plains. He stated if

the property was kept clean and in ship shape it may be a different story. DiGiorgio

explained how the small storage tanks are recertified. DiGiorgio was asked if anyone

else inspects their property. He stated their insurance company will inspect at least

annually. Eugene Bloodgood asked what happens if there is a fire and there is debris

from fighting the fire that goes into the water. DiGiorgio stated that propane is non-toxic

and not harmful to the environment. He stated it dissipates very quickly into the

atmosphere. He stated the fire would be contained with water. An unidentified

gentleman who lives on Hoffman Rd. stated that he objected to the addition of the second

tank. Michelle Bloodgood stated that there are health hazards to breathing the propane

vapors. DiGiorgio stated this would only be if propane displaces oxygen not because it is

toxic. DiGiorgio stated that the vapors dissipate very quickly and are replaced by

oxygen. Tom Lennon asked if the plan with the second tank is to expand the territory

that is being serviced. Marshall stated no. Lennon asked if this has anything to do with

the upcoming zoning regulations in Pine Plains. DiGiorgio stated he wasn’t familiar with

the zoning regulations. An unidentified male asked if the Fire Company has sufficient

manpower to handle a propane fire and if they had the proper equipment also. DiGiorgio

stated he is committed to the community to provide annual emergency response training

and to make sure they have the proper equipment. Pecorella asked if the Fire Chief was

requested to come to the public hearing. Bartles stated he didn’t request it. DiGiorgio

stated he would have to look at the current Fire Co. equipment to see if it was adequate.

Pecorella asked how much water capacity would be needed to extinguish a propane fire

in the worst case scenario and what kind of equipment would be needed. DiGiorgio

stated he would attack the fire with two pumpers with 4,000 gallons of water. Discussion

of fighting the “worst case scenario” fire followed. Bartles asked if there was anyone

who hadn’t spoken yet who would like to speak. Bartles stated that the Board has a huge

amount of information to talk about and the intention of the public hearing is for the

public to tell the Board what their concerns are so they can ask the questions. Bartles

stated that the next two steps that are really, really critical is the environmental review

and this should address all the issues that were brought up including adequacy of the

emergency equipment, the obnoxious odors, and the visual impacts. Bartles stated this

also has to go to the County Planner who will review it and come back with their

recommendations and opinions. Bartles stated that depending on what those two issues

bring up, is how the Board makes its decision. Bartles stated the concerns can really be

categorized into safety issues, some transportation issues, some visual issues, some odor

issues, and property values but mainly safety. Bartles stated the Board has to complete

the SEQR review and then the application and SEQR will be submitted to the County.

He stated the County typically takes a month. An unidentified male asked if there is any







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alarm on the site so that people could evacuate in the event of a leak. DiGiorgio stated

no. Pecorella asked how many truck loads it takes to fill up one 30,000 gallon tank.

DiGiorgio stated the tank will be full in three deliveries. Bartles asked Jurkowski for any

comments. Jurkowski stated he just received the updated site plan and he will review and

comment. Bartles asked if anyone hadn’t yet had a chance to speak. Pecorella asked if

there was a possibility of keeping the public hearing open. Bartles stated with no motion

to close, the public hearing will remain open. Replansky stated he would recommend a

long form EAF and the Board should not do anything until they get the EAF and do the

SEQR process. Replansky recommended a coordinated review and make SEQR

determinations on what was heard at the public hearing. He stated that conceivably there

may be a DEIS on the project and the public hearing cannot be closed until the

environmental review is completed. Replansky advised to keep the public hearing open

for an undetermined time and require the submission of a long form EAF. Replansky

stated that an escrow account should be established. Replansky stated he would

recommend an escrow agreement be prepared. Replansky advised the applicant that the

Board has the discretion of asking for either the short form or long form EAF.



NANCY WARD: Ms. Ward presented the Board with the new survey of her property.

She is requesting the property line between her two pieces of property be moved to place

the driveway and well on the piece of property containing the house. Short discussion

followed. Motion by Mecciarello; second by Osofsky authorizing the Chairman to sign

the plat for the lot line adjustment as presented. All in favor.



CARVEL: Dan Stone, Nelson Johnson and Alex Durst were present to represent the

applicant. Stone stated the archaeological work is scheduled to be complete by the end of

November. Dan Stone gave the Board a power point presentation to show the status of

the Carvel project with regard to archaeology. He stated there are 17 potential

archeological sensitive sites on the property. Stone stated of the 17 sites, two have been

determined by SHPO to be non-register eligible. Stone went through each of the sites

during the presentation. Stone stated he has discussed with Stolzenburg how to present

this data. Stone stated they will revise Chapter 6 and provide a new appendix. They will

add a second appendix that will document and demonstrate how each of the

archaeological sensitive areas will be avoided. He stated they intend to submit this

information to the Board before the December meeting. Stone stated the other

outstanding issue with respect to completeness is phasing. Stone stated he clarified that

issue. Stone stated he believes that Stolzenburg found their revision of Chapter 2

acceptable. Stone expressed that he feels they will be ready for the Board to consider the

issue of completeness at the January meeting. Short discussion of artifacts followed.

Bartles asked Stolzenburg if she feels Chapters 6 and 2 are the last issues to be resolved.

She stated she believes so. Discussion followed. Stone advised their intent to have one

complete revised paper copy for the January meeting. Stone advised that he will have

cd’s for the Board members. Discussion followed. Replansky advised that the escrow

account was totally depleted. Replansky stated he would discuss a figure with the

applicant but his suggestion would be the original funding amount. Replansky asked

Proper to find out that figure and let him know. Williams advised the Board that their

escrow account is also depleted.







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November 14, 2007







SHEKOMEKO CREEK SUBDIVISION: John Reilly represented the applicant.

Replansky advised that he looked over the Declaration of Common Driveway Easement

and it is fine. He stated he wants it filed simultaneously or prior to the filing of the

subdivision map. Replansky stated that Jurkowski had suggested a requirement for the

bonding of the roads. Replansky stated he doesn’t think it necessary in this case because

of the conservation easement. Replansky stated he is comfortable instead of the bonding

for the improvements that there be a condition that no building permit will be issued for

construction on the lots until the roads are actually put in. Replansky stated this should

be on the map and in the final resolution. Replansky stated that if they are shared

driveways, they will have to get approval from the Town Board for an open development

area. Replansky stated that can be done at the time of the application for the building

permit. Short discussion followed. Replansky stated that accessing a lot through an

easement requires an open development area must be approved by the Town Board.

Discussion followed. Replansky stated that the resolution should state no building permit

should be issued until such time of the open development area approval and the driveway

is constructed. He stated this should be a map note also.



Replansky advised he had to leave and advised the Board there shouldn’t be dialogue

between the public and the applicant during the public hearing. He stated the public

should speak and then the Board directs the questions afterwards.



Jurkowski stated that he feels the applicant should be getting the actual work permit not

just a letter approving the cuts as a part of the condition. Discussion followed.

Jurkowski stated the letter would come first and then the actual work permit be issued

before a building permit is issued. Jurkowski stated if the Board is okay with those two

issues, he and Replansky can get together on the actual language on those two notes to be

added to the plat and in the resolution. Reilly stated he needs final approval and can have

the revised maps in a couple of weeks after talking with Jurkowski and Replansky.

Pecorella made a motion to grant conditional final approval; second by Mecciarello. All

in favor. Bartles stated he would work on the resolution.



OTHER BUSINESS: Bartles stated that Replansky is very, very concerned about the

issues that were brought up about Paraco. He stated the Board will go to a long form

EAF but the Board has to decide how they are going to handle it. Bartles stated that

Replansky wants a coordinated review which he is not sure how to proceed with.

Discussion followed on coordinated review. Jurkowski stated that based on what he has

seen it is an unlisted action. Pecorella stated that he doesn’t feel the Fire Chief

recognizes the magnitude of what could happen there. Jurkowski stated that the

responsible party for the entire Fire District has written a letter stating he has no concerns

beyond the additional emergency training that will be provided. Jurkowski stated that if

there is a fire of any magnitude you would go under mutual aid to get help. Bartles asked

Jurkowski if he would be a facilitator for SEQR purposes. Jurkowski stated there are

very valid questions on the part of the public which should be addressed during the

SEQR. Bartles asked the Board if they want to get Stolzenburg involved. Bartles stated

he sees no reason to have both Stolzenburg and Jurkowski involved. DePreter stated he







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feels they need a facilitator. Pecorella asked if Stolzenburg couldn’t do things that

Jurkowski couldn’t do. He feels they work as a team and should both be involved.

Bartles stated he needs the support of the Board for any decision. Jurkowski stated he

will get some information out to the Board and the applicant. Pecorella stated he has

heard they are going to be closing their office on Route 44 and moving it to Pine Plains

which the applicant did not mention. Osofsky stated they used to have an office there.

Pecorella stated they never mentioned opening again and the Board would have to look at

parking, etc. Jurkowski asked if there was any information on the original site plan.

Pecorella asked if they could require hours of operation. Bartles stated he didn’t think so.

Pecorella questioned that statement. Bartles stated that he was at the point where

Pecorella may have to recuse himself. Pecorella stated he would. Bartles asked him if he

was recusing himself and stated he wasn’t asking him to but he has to seriously consider

it. Pecorella stated he wasn’t but he would if legally required to do so. Discussion

followed.



Motion by DePreter; second by Osofsky to accept the minutes of October 10, 2007 as

submitted. All in favor; Pecorella abstained.









Osofsky gave a short synopsis of her training at the Town of Millerton.



Motion by DePreter to adjourn; second by Coons. All in favor.







Respectfully submitted by:





Nancy E. Proper Donald Bartles, Jr.

Secretary Chairman









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