JULY 16-19, 2007
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote
at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication
or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by an
MONDAY JULY 16 – THURSDAY 19, 2007
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS
Call to Order/Quorum Check
The meeting was called to order by Chair Jack Saunders (Honeywell). A quorum
was established with 6 user voting members present, including the following
proxies: Clark Okawa for Paul Bardwell of Pratt & Whitney; Özlem Sivrioglu for
John Nerz of GE Aviation; Ana Viguera-Sancho for Fabrice Crabos of SAFRAN.
User Members Present (8)
Jack Saunders Honeywell Chair
Paul Bardwell Pratt & Whitney
Nicolas Barthelemy Eurocopter
Clark Okawa Pratt & Whitney
Özlem Sivrioglu GEMTC
Alexandrina Stoica Bombardier Aerospace
Ana Viguera-Sancho SAFRAN
Scott Maitland Goodrich
Other Participants/Members (18)
Dale Harmon Cincinnati Thermal Spray Secretary
Al Abbasi Turbine Airfoil Coatings
Turgut Avci Tei-Tusas Engine Ind.
Aydemir Gonaydin Tei-Tusas Engine Ind.
Bernhard Gulde Aerotech Peissenberg
Richard Haberbosch Aerotech Peissenberg
Heinrich Kuchlbauer Aerotech Peissenberg
Sukru Igdeli Tei-Tusas Engine Ind
Tugba Kalem Tei-Tusas Engine Ind.
Neil McGurk Tecvac
Eikichiro Nishimatsu Asahi Kinzoku Kogyo Co Ltd
Özüm Özgüles Fastener Technology
Alan Robinson Chromalloy United Kingdom Limited
Nissim Shaltiel Chromalloy Israel Ltd
Ronald Stewart Ellison Group
Yoshiomi Sukesada Asahi Kinzoku Kogyo Co. Ltd
Vern Talmadge Howmet Thermatech Coatings
Jan Wigren Volvo Aero
PRI Auditor (1)
PRI Staff (1)
Attendees were given the opportunity to identify expectations to be addressed
during the week of meetings. Expectations for the open meeting beyond agenda
items included learning information on the Nadcap process, being updated on the
Coatings task group, and discussion on improving supplier understanding of
internal round robin requirements.
1.2 Auditor Feedback
Auditor evaluations by the staff engineer and the suppliers from the previous
quarter were reviewed. There were no negative trends or issues.
1.3 Approval of Minutes
The minutes of the April 2007 meeting held in Paris, France, were approved
1.4 Review Action Item List
The Action Item list was reviewed. For specific details please see the Coatings
Task Group Action Item List (RAIL) posted at www.eAuditNet.com under Public
Documents / Coatings.
2.0 CLOSED MEETING ISSUES
2.1 Prime-Specific Job Audit Guidelines
Rolls-Royce, plc Guidelines are ready for issue. General Electric Aviation and
Pratt & Whitney Guidelines are in process.
2.2 Ovens for Curing of Metallographic Mounts
Based on a question submitted by a supplier, it was discussed whether curing of
metallographic mounts in an oven is considered thermal processing per AC7109/5
and would therefore require a temperature uniformity survey. It was determined
that this is not thermal processing per AC7109/5; no TUS is required.
2.3 120 Day Audits
The status of 120 day audits was reviewed. There has only been one coatings
audit open over 120 days since February. No currently open coatings audits are
over 120 days.
2.4 Memorandum of Understanding – Materials Testing
The status of the proposed MOU with the Materials Testing Task Group was
reviewed. It has already been signed by Coatings. Materials Tetsing has agreed
to sign the document.
2.5 Succession Plan
A succession plan was proposed with Tim Pruitt of Rolls-Royce Corp. becoming
Chair and Paul Bardwell of Pratt & Whitney becoming Vice Chair. No timeline
was set. The plan is still awaiting approval as not all involved were present. It
was discussed that in general, the vice chair will next assume the office of chair.
2.6 Customer Notification Letter
Guidelines were set up for the content of letters of customer notification. The
information is to be added to the Coatings Audit Handbook. At a minimum, the
notification must contain:
- Description of violation/Details of engineering requirements
- Who was contacted with title/function
- Point of contact for processor (sender of letter typically)
Other information which is not required but would assist in resolving the issue
more quickly with the customer is:
- Approximate time frame of violation
- Listing of parts/all affected parts – Quantities, ship dates, status
- Preliminary plan for corrective action
ACTION ITEM: Add information required for customer notification to audit handbook.
(J. Lewis, 31-Aug-07)
2.7 Expectations for Closing Supplier Advisories
It was discussed that in most cases, corrective action by the supplier is required to
close Supplier Advisories.
2.8 Standardization Team Proposals
The Task Group reviewed the presentations made by the sub-teams for merit,
failure criteria and quorum from the Standardization Team. The
recommendations for quorum and failure were accepted. The Coatings Task
Group will review failure criteria by the end of the October meeting. As a new
sub-team was formed for merit, no decision was made on the proposals by the
2.9 Failed Microhardness Check
Currently, AC7109/5 requires that if the periodic check detects an out-of-
tolerance condition, all tests since the last correct periodic check be retested
(unless suspect population can be further restricted). This may not be practical or
possible in all situations. It was proposed for the next revision of the checklist,
the question be revised to:
“If the periodic check detects an out-of-tolerance condition, do procedures require
that all tests since the last correct periodic check are assessed for product non-
3.0 TASK GROUP TUTORIAL
Staff Engineer Jim Lewis presented a tutorial to explain the functions of the
Coatings Task Group to participants.
4.0 NMC METRICS
The NMC metrics were presented by Staff Engineer Jim Lewis and reviewed by
the Task Group. Metrics with an acceptable “green” stoplight condition include
Audits Scheduled Year to Date, Supplier Cycle Time for Initial Audits, and Staff
Cycle Time. The Certs Issued and Task Group Cycle Time (both for Initial and
Reaccreditation) metrics are “yellow”. The two metrics with “red” stoplight
condition include Supplier Cycle Time for Reaccreditation Audits and %
Suppliers on Merit. The percentage of eligible suppliers on Merit is now 52%.
5.0 CYCLE TIME CHART
Jim Lewis shared the Cycle Time chart which currently indicates a positive trend
toward lower cycle times.
6.0 AUDITOR FEEDBACK
Jim Lewis led a review of data from PRI staff and supplier evaluations of
auditors. There have been no significant issues documented.
7.0 CHEMICAL COMPOSITION BY MICROANALYSIS CHECKLIST
The MTL Task Group is still working on checklist coverage for the microanalysis
of chemical composition of coatings.
8.0 FRENCH TRANSLATIONS OF COATINGS CHECKLISTS
The Coatings checklists have been translated into French and are ready for
acceptance and publication. The Task Group acknowledged the efforts by Nicolas
Barthelemy (Eurocopter), Fabrice Crabos (SAFRAN), and Alexandrina Stoica
(Bombardier) to get this initiative completed in a timely manner.
9.0 SUPPLIER SUPPORT COMMITTEE REPORT
Dale Harmon (Cincinnati Thermal Spray), Coatings representative to the Supplier
Support Committee (SSC), presented an overview of the SSC and items of
interest from the SSC meeting held the previous day. For complete details, see
published minutes of the SSC meeting posted on www.pri-network.org.
10.0 NADCAP MANAGEMENT COUNCIL MEETING REPORT
Jack Saunders, Coatings Chair, updated the task group on items from the Nadcap
Management Council (NMC) meeting earlier in the day. For complete details, see
published minutes of the NMC meeting posted on www.pri-network.org.
11.0 TWELVE MONTH PLAN
The Task Group reviewed the list of proposed items to be addressed over the next
12 months. Statements of objective were added to several items. Anyone can send
suggestions for consideration to Chair Jack Saunders or Staff Engineer Jim Lewis.
ACTION ITEM: Suppliers, primes, and auditors are to forward to Jim Lewis proposed
changes for the next checklist revisions. (All, 22-Oct-07)
ACTION ITEM: Develop and maintain a running list of proposed changes to the
checklists for future consideration. (J. Lewis., 30-Sep-07)
12.0 REVIEW OF NTGOP-001 APPENDIX 9
There is an annual review of this appendix in order to ensure it is current with
Task Group expectations; there were some minor changes made. Further revision
may be required based on results of the NMC Standardization Sub-Team. All
changes are to be balloted.
13.0 PARETO OF FINDINGS
Jim Lewis presented a pareto of findings to Revision A checklists, representing
audits conducted during the 13 month period that Revision A checklists were in
use. These findings are posted in the Coatings section of Public Documents on
ACTION ITEM: Add an explanation to the pareto to state the background and purpose
of the Pareto. (J. Lewis, 30-Sep-07)
ACTION ITEM: Add to the Round Robin training presentation the following: definition
of a Round Robin, the purpose for the Round Robin, and the record retention requirement
for Round Robin results. (D. Harmon, 31-Aug-07)
ACTION ITEM: Post the revised Round Robin training presentation in the Coatings
section of Public Documents in eAuditNet. (J. Lewis, 15-Sep-07)
14.0 SUPPLIER SURVEY
The Task Group reviewed possible questions for a survey of suppliers that would
help the Task Group to better understand how to better assist coatings suppliers.
The stated purpose for the survey is to solicit suggestions for program
improvement and gauge the effectiveness of the open Task Group meetings. A list
of questions was agreed; the survey will be available to all individuals with
Coatings suppliers who are registered users of eAuditNet.
ACTION ITEM: Distribute the survey to suppliers of coatings who are registered users
of eAuditNet. (J. Lewis, 31-Oct-07)
ACTION ITEM: Draft a cover letter explaining the survey. (J. Saunders, 30-Sep-07)
15.0 MAGNETIC MASKING
Jon Higgins (Rolls-Royce plc) submitted a review of Rolls-Royce, plc
requirements dealing with demagnetization of parts. Requirements exist only for
NDT applications, none specifically for coatings. Further discussion was not
appropriate as no one in attendance had experience with this type of masking or
had knowledge of other requirements concerning magnetic masking. The topic
will be moved to the October 2007 agenda.
16.0 AUDITOR TRAINING 2007
Topics for auditor training in October were finalized; auditor input was solicited
and list of topics was revised accordingly.
- Prime job audit information (Honeywell – Jack Saunders; Rolls-Royce Corp –
Tim Pruitt; General Electric – John Nerz; Pratt & Whitney – Paul Bardwell;
Bombardier – Alexandrina Stoica; Eurocopter – Nicolas Barthelemy; Safran
Group – Fabrice Crabos; Hill AFB – Jim Diamond; Rockwell Collins – Soly
- Open question and answer period – Jack Saunders
- Feedback on checklists and objective evidence – Jack Saunders
- Auditor advisories – Jim Lewis
- Coating composition by microanalysis – no assignment
- Feedback on job audit guidelines – Jack Saunders
- Internal Round Robin – Jim Lewis
- On-site acceptance by auditors – Jim Lewis
Two other issues were identified which needed to be addressed during the open
question and answer period:
- AMS2750D relative to calibration of over-temperature sensors not being
required per AMS2750
- Use of the post-audit letter of resources available to suppliers
ACTION ITEM: Ask auditors to be prepared to discuss their feedback on the Objective
Evidence checklists. (J. Lewis, 31-Aug-07)
ACTION ITEM: Send the appropriate format for training presentations to those
individuals who will be making presentations at Auditor Training. (J. Lewis, 15-Aug-07)
ACTION ITEM: All training presentations to be submitted to Jim Lewis. (All Trainers –
Saunders, Pruitt, Nerz, Bardwell, Stoica, Barthelemy, Crabos, Diamond, Paterson, Lewis,
17.0 IMPROVEMENTS TO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE CHECKLISTS
Some improvements brought in by attendees were discussed and some editorial
changes were made to the objective evidence checklists. It was also discussed
that with the next revision of the checklists, the objective evidence and other
guidance should be placed directly in the checklist, to better identify its existence.
18.0 REVIEW EXPECTATIONS/NEW BUSINESS
All documented expectations for this meeting were addressed.
18.1 Revisions to ASTM Hardness Testing Standards
Dale Harmon submitted of summary of changes to ASTM E18 that are significant
relative to AC7109/5 checklist. There are several new requirements and several
changes to existing checklist requirements. ASTM E384 has also just been revised
and issued. It was decided to consult with MTL Task Group on how that group
will implement changes.
ACTION ITEM: Consult with MTL on their timetable for implementing ASTM E18-07
and ASTM E384-07. (J. Lewis, 31-Aug-07)
ACTION ITEM: Forward to Jim Lewis company expectations on a timetable for
supplier implementation of ASTM E18-07 and ASTM E384-07. (All Primes, 31-Aug-07)
ACTION ITEM: Forward to Jim Lewis company requirements for retention time for
metallographic specimens. (All Primes, 31-Aug-07)
19.0 REVIEW ACTION ITEMS
Action items were documented by Secretary Dale Harmon. For specific details
please see the Coatings Task Group Action Item List posted at
www.eAuditNet.com under Public Documents / Coatings.
20.0 APRIL 2007 MEETING AGENDA
Next meeting will be October in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Proposed agenda items
other than the standard items include: auditor training; auditor training for July
2008; update on the supplier survey; updates on ASTM E18-07 and ASTM E384-
07 implementation; review of CP AC7108 relative to AC7109/4 and AC7109/6;
review of HT AC7102 relative to AC7109/7; coating composition checklist
update; Objective Evidence updates; Prime job audit guidelines; failure criteria;
pareto of findings / root causes; magnetic masking; and Standardization
Committee results. The open meeting will run from Tuesday through Thursday
with auditor training conducted on Sunday and the closed meeting scheduled for
Monday. The agenda will be posted on the PRI website, www.pri-network.org.
Meeting was adjourned without objection.
Minutes prepared by:
Dale Harmon and Jim Lewis
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this
meeting? (select one)
*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring Who is responsible: Due date:
NTGOP-001, Appendix IX J. Lewis 31-Oct-07