TR41.3-05-02-001
TR-41.3 MEETING REPORT
Subcommittee: TR-41.3, Analog and Digital Wireline Telephones
Chair: James Bress, AST Technology Labs Inc. 321-254-8118
jrbress@asttechlabs.com
Vice-Chair: Harry Van Zandt, ECS Technologies Inc. 814-432-0996
HarryECS126@aol.com
Date & Time: Thursday, November 11, 2004, 1:30 PM to 6:00 PM
Location: St. Anthony Hotel
300 East Travis Phone: 210-227-4392
San Antonio, TX 78205 Fax: 210-227-0915
1. OPENING BUSINESS
1.1 Introductions, Roll Call and Quorum (Bress)
A quorum consisting of 10 of 10 quorum members was present at roll call.
The following participants were present:
Company Participant
Advent Instruments David Stenner fyi
AST Technology Labs Don McKinnon alt
AST Technology Labs James Bress quo
ECS Technologies Harry Van Zandt quo
IEEE / Acoustics for
Ron Magnuson fyi
Communications
IEEE / Plantronics Steve Graham alt
Gallaudet Univeristy Linda Kozma fyi
Microtronix Ken Macdonald quo
Mitel Networks Greg Slingerland quo
Nortel Roger Britt quo
Plantronics Allen Woo quo
Sprint Amar Ray quo
Tenovis Joachim Pomy fyi
Uniden Al Baum quo
VTech Innovations Steve Kropp quo
VTech Innovations Steve Whitesell alt
Wyle Labs Jim Smith quo
1.2 Review and Approve Agenda (Bress)
The Agenda was reviewed and approved with some revision.
1.3 Intellectual Property Rights (Early Disclosure Policy) (Bress)
The TIA IP policy was stated and participants were encouraged to read the TIA engineering
manual which states the TIA IPR policy.
2. DISTRIBUTION AND NUMBERING OF CONTRIBUTIONS (BRESS)
• TR41.3-04-11-001-meeting-report-2004-08WashingtonDC.doc
• TR41.3-04-11-002-R1-AGENDA.doc
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• TR41.3-04-11-003-DigitalCordlessHAC,ABaum,Uniden.pdf
• TR41.3-04-11-004-TAM-Ray-Sprint.pdf
• TR41.3-04-11-005-PLT-USB-HeadsetDraft01SGrahamPlantronics.pdf
• TR41.3-04-11-006-L-CordlessHACContribution,SKropp,VTech.pdf
• TR41.3-04-11-007-L-Uniden-Contribution.pdf
3. PREVIOUS MEETING REPORT
3.1 Review and Approve (Bress)
The Washington DC meeting report was reviewed and approved with some revision.
4.5 Review Previous Meeting’s Action Items
Action items from the previous meeting were reviewed and some were carried forward.
4. WORKING GROUP REPORTS
The following working groups met during the week and a summary of the meeting was
presented by the working group chair, or other representative, as listed below:
TR-41.3.3 Ken Macdonald (Microtronix)
TR-41.3.8 Don McKinnon (AST Technology Labs)
TR-41.3.9 Harry Van Zandt (ECS Technologies)
TR-41.3.10 Al Baum (Uniden)
TR-41.3.11 Allen Woo (Plantronics)
Each working group prepares meeting notes after the meeting. The meeting notes are copied in
their entirety below. At the end of each working group report section, any actions taken by the
subcommittee, or other information is provided.
4.1 TR41.3.3 VoIP and PCM Terminal Transmission Performance
4.1.1 Project Numbers
• PN-3-4352-RV2
4.1.2 Meeting Minutes
Telecommunications Industry Association
TR-41.3.3 MEETING NOTES
Working Group: TR41.3.3 - VoIP and PCM Terminal Transmission Performance
Chair: Ken Macdonald, Microtronix Systems Ltd. 519.649.4900
E-mail: kenm@microtronix.ca
Editor: Roger Britt, Nortel Networks
Date & Time: Monday, November 8, 2004, 8:30 PM to 12:00 PM
Location: St. Anthony Hotel, San Antonio, Texas
1) Opening Business
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TR41.3 Meeting Report (San Antonio 2004-11) TR41.3-05-02-001
a) Introductions
Name Organization Represented
Ken Macdonald (Chair) Microtronix Systems Ltd.
Roger Britt (Editor) Nortel Networks
Ron Magnuson Acoustics for Communications
David Stenner Advent Instruments, Inc.
Roger Hunt Atlinks USA
Kirit Patel Cisco Systems
Bob Young IEEE STIT
Glenn Hess MWM Acoustics
Allen Woo Plantronics
Steve Graham Plantronics
Tailey Tung Siemens Communications Inc.
Amar N. Ray Sprint Technologies
Joachim Pomy Tenovis GmbH
Tom Harley Texas Instruments
Tom Harley Texas Instruments
Benito Pēna UTSA Student
Trone Bishop Verizon
Steve Kropp VTech Communications
Steve Whitesell VTech Communications
Al Baum Uniden
Jim Smith Wyle Labs
b) Intellectual Property Rights (Early Disclosure Policy)
i) The chair referred the working group to the text of the TIA IP policy attached to the
agenda.
c) Review Agenda
i) No agenda changes were requested
d) Chair’s Remarks
i) The Chair welcomed all participating in the work group. The working group goal is
to ballot 810-B by November 2005.
2) Distribution and Numbering of Contributions
Document Number Title Source
TR41.3.3-04-11-001 AGENDA KMacdonald
TR41.3.3-04-11-002 Proposed810-A Revision Goals KMacdonald
TR41.3.3-04-11-003 TIA-810-B-Draft1 Rbritt
TR41.3.3-04-11-004 TIA810-A Revision Comments Ghess
TR41.3.3-04-11-005 USB-Headset Draft01 SGraham
TR41.3.3-04-11-006 IEEE 269draft25 IEEE STIT
TR41.3.3-04-11-007-L Narrowband / Wideband Compatibility THarley
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3) Review Contributions and Edit Draft Document
a) Contribution –002. Ken reviewed this contribution emphasizing the publication goal.
The scope of 810-A and the proposed causes of changes were presented. No additional
items were suggested by the working group. It was, however, suggested that the
changes made for 810-B should be implemented in TIA-920 as appropriate.
b) Contribution –003. Roger reviewed the changes that he has included in draft 1 of the
standard.
c) Contribution –004. Glenn reviewed his contribution introduction and handset technical
requirements.
i) Glenn recommended a number of changes: requiring the use of a HATS, test signal
specification, appropriate changes resulting from choosing to use a HATS.
ii) It was generally agreed that 810-B will require the use of a HATS, and suggested
that we get the text for this requirement from TIA-470.110-C.
iii) Contributions are required to propose changes to the response masks.
Considerations for measuring using a HATS should be included. Also,
considerations arising from limits in other standards (e.g.: TIA-920) could be
included.
iv) IEEE STIT will review 269 text regarding recommendation of test signals. The
working group needs contributions regarding specification of test signals in the
standard.
v) Agreed to use band averaged, 1/3 octave data in LR calculations (as was done in
470.110-C).
vi) Receive volume control – requires more detail – include text from 470.110-C as a
starting point.
vii) Noise and SFI – need to add measurement details specified in Glenn’s contribution.
viii) Distortion and Noise – Glenn suggests relaxing some limits to align more with TIA-
920.
ix) TCLw – working group agreed to add the requirement of measuring TCLw with the
handset on the HATS in the HATS position.
x) Due to time constraints, the rest of this contribution was tabled to a future meeting.
d) Contribution –005. Steve explained the concept and reasoning for proposing a USB
Headset requirement. There was much discussion on the need for this as a standard
and whether it should have a broader scope (e.g.: speaker-phone / handsfree). Ken
asked for a vote as to whether the working group will ask for a new PN for this standard
– all were in favour Steve and Roger have offered to do much of the document
coordination.
e) Contribution –006. Ken explained that this contribution is the latest draft of the IEEE
STIT work on IEEE Std. 269; the contribution shows all proposed changes since the
published standard. Ken requested that everyone review the changes, as a number of
them effect the work of this group.
f) Contribution –007. Tom reviewed this contribution.
i) One of the issues raised was a wideband terminal conferencing to both another
wideband terminal and a narrowband terminal. It was agreed that the issue of
conferencing calls should probably be in TIA-811-A. Roger felt that it was probably
too late to have this included in 811-A. The issue should be raised in 41.4. If this
cannot be included in 811-A then it could be included as an informative annex of
810-B.
ii) Tom discussed the desire to require STMR to be 1.5 dB lower when the terminal is
powered than when it is not. It was generally agreed that this is probably a good
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TR41.3 Meeting Report (San Antonio 2004-11) TR41.3-05-02-001
idea for a handset terminal, but Steve Graham cautioned that this same requirement
will not always be desirable for loosely coupled headsets.
iii) Tom described the application of ‘group listening’ and proposed that the handset
frequency response should be exempt from meeting the 810-A requirement when in
group listen mode.
4) Meeting Summary
a) Items for TR41.3 Subcommittee
i) Request a new PN for USB Headset Telephone Terminal Equipment - Transmission
Requirements for Narrowband USB Headset enabled Voice over IP Telephones.
Steve Graham has offered to be the editor.
ii) Request a teleconference / Webex on December 8, noon to 2 pm EST.
iii) Request a full day for the next meeting (week of February 7, 2005).
b) Action Items
i) Roger to edit draft document and provide Draft 2 by December 1.
ii) Working group to provide contributions (e.g.: response masks)
5) Details for Next Meeting
a) There will be a teleconference / webex meeting on December 8, noon to 2 pm EST.
b) The next TR-41 meeting will be the week of February 7, 2005.
6) Adjournment – the meeting was adjourned at 12:30 pm
Thanks to all for participating in this work group meeting.
4.1.3 TR-41.3 Meeting Notes And Actions
Information
• Meeting notice for the Webex meeting must be posted 2 weeks prior to the meeting
date.
• There was considerable discussion regarding a new ear simulator that will have a
different stiffness than the current ear classified as Type 3.3 in ITU P.57. The issue is
that if a new ear design is made available it may be confusing as to which ear to use
when a Type 3.3 is specified. The recommendation was to make a new clause in ITU
P.57 and call this new ear design Type 3.3.1. A request was made to send a liaison
letter from TR-41 to ITU to request the new 3.3.1 clause in P.57.
Votes:
• To start a new project for a USB headsets standard.
Result: 100% unanimous
• To revise previous vote to make the USB headset project include headsets, handsets,
and hands-free
Result: 100% unanimous
• To have a Webex interim meeting in December
Result: 100% unanimous
• To send a liaison letter from TR-41 to ITU SG-12 chair to ask for a new clause for the
new ear design proposed.
Result: 100% unanimous
Action Items
• TR-41.3 chair to obtain project number for the USB headset project.
• Tr41.3 chair to request at the TR-41 plenary meeting for theTR-41 chair to send the
liaison letter to ITU.
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Future Items:
• Request a full day for February 2005 meeting.
4.2 TR-41.3.8 (TIA-470.B Revision-Network Signaling)
4.2.1 Project Numbers
• PN 3-4350.230-RV3
4.2.2 Meeting Minutes
TR-41.3.8 Meeting Notes
PN 3-4350.230 TIA-470-B Revision-Network Signaling
Chair: Don McKinnon
Editor: Dave Stenner
General:
WG met Monday afternoon for a half day for the committee ballot review. The ballot summary is
provided below. Several ballot comments and related contributions were reviewed and
discussed. The WG performed document work to prepare for Industry ballot.
PN Votes (18)
Name Company U P UP GI
Abstain
Richard Frank Dietrich Lockard Group, Inc. 1
Approve
Roger Hunt ATLINKS USA 1
Allen Woo Plantronics 1
Phillip Havens Littelfuse Inc. 1
Amar Ray Sprint Corporation 1
Roger Britt Nortel Networks 1
Charles 'Chuck' Bailey SBC Technology Resources, Inc. 1
Harry Van Zandt ECS Technologies 1
John Combs Cisco Systems, Inc. 1
Michael Newman CSI Telecommunications 1
Joanne McMillen Avaya 1
Approve with comments
Tailey Tung Siemens Information and Communications 1
Al Baum Uniden America Corporation 1
Steve Kropp VTech Communications 1
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TR41.3 Meeting Report (San Antonio 2004-11) TR41.3-05-02-001
Raymond Gass Alcatel USA 1
Jim Smith Wyle Laboratories, Inc. 1
Do not approve with comments
Ken Macdonald Microtronix Systems Ltd. 1
James Bress AST Technology Labs, Inc. 1
Action Items or Information:
• WG requests to submit document for a Industry Ballot
• The edited document will be placed on the FTP site in ~ 1 week for a final editorial
review. The editorial review period will last 1 week at which the document will be
submitted to TIA for industry ballot.
Future Items:
Request 1/2 day at next TIA meeting for Industry Ballot review.
4.2.3 TR-41.3 Meeting Notes And Actions
Information
• Expect WG to be dissolved after next meeting (if ballot is positive result). Working group
may continue to address developing the TSB for TIA-470.xxx-C and ETSI comparison.
Votes:
• To send PN 3-4350.230 for Industry Ballot
Result: 100% unanimous
Action Items
• TR-41.3 chair to put ballot notice on next agenda in case ballot needs another round.
Future Items:
• Request a ½ day for February 2005 meeting.
4.3 TR41.3.9- (TIA-470.320-C. Cordless Telephone Features Performance
Requirements)
4.3.1 Project Numbers
• PN-3-4350.320-RV3
4.3.2 Meeting Minutes
Telecommunications Industry Association
Standards and Technology Department
Meeting Notes - Cordless Telephones
Working Group TR-41.3.9
November 11, 2004 St. Anthony Hotel San Antonio, TX
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Attendees Name Organization Represented
Harry Van Zandt ECS Technologies (Chair)
James Bress AST Technology Labs (Editor)
Amar N. Ray Sprint Technologies
Al Baum Uniden
Steve Kropp VTech Communications
Jim Smith Wyle Labs
1. Call to Order and Opening Business
The Working Group meeting was called to order at 8:30am, on Thursday, November 11,
2004 by Harry Van Zandt, Chair of TR41.3.9. The meeting was held at the St. Anthony
Hotel in San Antonio, TX and met ½ day. The Chair reminded the attendees that TIA has a
Patent Policy and that it is described in the TIA Engineering Manual.
2. Chair’s Remarks
The chair stated that the intention of the meeting was to finalize the cordless features
performance document at this meeting in order to go to committee ballot. However, since
there are numerous issues that need to be addressed, it was decided by consensus that
work would continue during the meeting and through the next meeting, at which time it
should be ready for ballot.
3. Distribution and Numbering of Contributions
Document Number Title Source
TR41.3.9-04-11-001 San Antonio Agenda Harry Van Zandt
TR41.3.9-04-11-002 Washington Meeting Minutes Harry Van Zandt
TR41.3.9-04-11-003 Hearing Aid 5.8GHZ Cordless Linda Kozma-Spytek
Waveforms
TR41.3.9-04-11-004M Cordless Features Doc. Draft James Bress
5. Status of Action Items
James Bress will work on editing the document before the next meeting.
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6. Old Business
Work continued on the draft document to add additional verbiage to clarify areas that had
vague or broad descriptions
7. New Business - None
8. Review Contributions
Reviewed and amended contribution TR41.3.9-04-11-004M
9. Meeting Summary
The chair reminded all the TR41.3.9 members to come to the February meeting in Las
Vegas prepared to finalize the Cordless Telephone Features Performance document and
send it to committee ballot.
Items for TR41.3 Subcommittee – Request ½ day at the next meeting
The meeting was adjourned at 12:00pm
4.3.3 TR-41.3 Meeting Notes And Actions
Information
• Requesting contributions to complete this standard.
Votes:
• None.
Action Items
• TR-41.3 chair to put committee ballot notice on next agenda
Future Items:
• Request a ½ day for February 2005 meeting.
4.4 TR41.3.10 (TIA-470.120-C Handsfree Performance Requirements)
4.4.1 Project Numbers
• PN-3-4350.120-RV3
4.4.2 Meeting Minutes
Telecommunications Industry Association
Standards and Technology Department
Working Group TR-41.3.10
Handsfree Acoustic Performance Requirements for Analog Telephones
(PN-3-4350.120-RV3 to be published as TIA-470.120-C)
Meeting Notes, Meeting Number 4
November 9, 2004 St. Anthony Hotel San Antonio, Texas
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Attendees
Name Organization Represented
Al Baum (Chair) Uniden
David Stenner Advent Instruments, Inc.
James Bress AST Technology Labs
John Bareham Consultant in Electroacoustics
Bob Young IEEE STIT
Ron Magnuson IEEE STIT
Dan Foley Listen Inc.
Ken Macdonald Microtronix Systems Ltd.
Glenn Hess MWM Acoustics
Steve Graham Plantronics
Allen Woo Plantronics
Amar N. Ray Sprint Technologies
Tom Harley Texas Instruments
Steve Kropp VTech Communications
Steve Whitesell VTech Communications
Jim Smith Wyle Laboratories, Inc.
1. Call to Order and Opening Business
The fourth meeting of the TR41.3.10 Working Group was called to order at 8:30am, on
Tuesday, November 9, 2004 by Al Baum, Chair of TR41.3.10. The meeting was held at St.
Anthony Hotel, San Antonio, Texas. The Chair reminded the attendees that TIA has a
Patent Policy and that it is described in the TIA Engineering Manual.
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2. Distribution and Numbering of Contributions
Document Number Title Source
TR41.3.10-04-11-001 San Antonio Agenda Al Baum
TR41.3.10-04-11-002 Washington Meeting Notes Al Baum
TR41.3.10-04-11-003 Document Draft 02 Al Baum
TR41.3.10-04-11-004 Handsfree Tolerance Masks Ron Magnuson
TR41.3.10-04-11-005 Setup and Analysis Bandwidth Ron Magnuson
TR41.3.10-04-11-006-L Handsfree Data Amar Ray
3. Previous Meeting Notes (Meeting 3)
a. Review Meeting Notes
The Meeting Notes from the previous meeting were reviewed and no corrections or
additions were proposed.
b. Status of Action Items
1) Amar Ray provided a contribution containing speakerphone performance data and
measurement techniques. Action item closed.
2) Al Baum agreed to contact Head Acoustics to confirm that their Type 3.4 HATS ships
with free field calibration data similar to the B&K Type 3.3 HATS. Action item still
open.
3) Dan Foley agreed to collect B&K Type 3.3 free field calibration data for several HATS
and calculate the standard deviation. Action item still open.
4. Old Business - None
5. New Business
Dan Foley gave a presentation demonstrating the impact of masking effect on the threshold
of audibility for harmonic distortion.
6. Review Contributions
a. TR41.3.10-04-11-004
In this contribution, Ron Magnuson proposed send and receive frequency response
requirements for handsfree telephones. The Working Group agreed to accept Ron’s
proposed masks and limit specs. However, the Working Group decided to use the
actual ISO 1/3 octave band limits rather than Ron’s proposed adjusted band limits.
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b. TR41.3.10-04-11-005
In this contribution, Ron Magnuson set forth three proposals.
Proposal 1
Use a Free Field Microphone and P.51 Mouth Simulator instead of HATS
After much discussion the Working Group decided that additional contributions are
needed with test data showing the comparison of measurements using the two methods.
Proposal 2
Change placement of telephone under test to the center of the table
IEEE STIT members advised that they were considering making this change to IEEE-
1329 as well as changing the size and shape of the table (round instead of square). The
Working Group agreed that the center front edge of the speakerphone should be placed
at the center of the table and that the center of the table should be the axis of rotation.
Proposal 3
Allow or require 1/3-octave band measurement of frequency response
The Working Group agreed to allow 1/3 octave band measurement of frequency
response.
c. TR41.3.10-04-11-006-L
In this contribution, Sprint presented TOLR and ROLR measurement data for several
handsfree telephones and discussed their measurement method. No specific proposals
were included in the contribution as the contribution was provided for information
purposes only. The Working Group had several questions regarding the measurement
method. Amar agreed to provide more details regarding the measurement method at
the next meeting.
d. TR41.3.10-04-11-007-L
In this contribution, John Bareham provided screen shots illustrating preliminary
handsfree telephone switching measurement techniques and results.
7. Edit Draft Document
Revised draft based on agreed changes from contributions.
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8. Meeting Summary
a. Items for TR41.3 Subcommittee - None
b. Action Items
1) Amar Ray will provide a contribution containing more details regarding the
measurement techniques used for the data contained in TR41.3.10-04-11-006-L.
2) Al Baum agreed to contact Head Acoustics to confirm that their Type 3.4 HATS ships
with free field calibration data similar to the B&K Type 3.3 HATS.
3) Dan Foley agreed to collect B&K Type 3.3 free field calibration data for several HATS
and calculate the standard deviation.
4) A Coordinated Investigative Testing Group was created consisting of:
John Bareham
Dan Foley
Glenn Hess
Al Baum
This group will identify three specific handsfree telephone models to test. Each
member of this group will obtain a sample of each of these three models and perform
testing. The test results of the four members will be compared and contrasted at the
next TR41.3.10 meeting.
9. Future Meetings
The next meeting will be held during the week of February 7-11, 2005 at the Embassy
Suites Hotel, Las Vegas, Nevada. The actual date will be scheduled during the TR41
Plenary meeting on November 12, 2004.
10. Adjournment
The meeting was adjourned at 6:00pm.
Al Baum
Chair, TR41.3.10
4.4.3 TR-41.3 Meeting Notes And Actions
Information
• Requesting contributions to complete this standard.
Votes:
• None.
Action Items
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• None.
Future Items:
• Request a full day for February 2005 meeting.
4.5 TR41.3.11 (TIA-470.130-C Headset Performance Requirements)
4.5.1 Project Numbers
• PN-3-4350.130-RV3
4.5.2 Meeting Minutes
Meeting Notes
Working Group TR41.3.11
Headset Acoustic Performance Requirements for Analog Telephone
(Target Completion Day: February, 2006)
Wednesday, November 10, 2004, Meeting Number 3
Wyndham St. Anthony Hotel, San Antonio
Attendees
Name Organization Represented
Allen Woo Plantronics, Inc. (Chair)
Don McKinnon AST Technology Labs (Editor)
Dave Stenner Advent Instruments, Inc.
Al Baum Uniden
Matthew Mulvihjll Industry Canada
Amar N. Ray Sprint Technologies
Tom Harley Texas Instruments
Ken Macdonald Microtronix
Glenn Hess MWM Acoustics
Bob Young IEEE STIT
Ron Magnuson IEEE STIT
Steve Graham Plantronics, Inc.
Dan Foley Listen, Inc.
John Bareham Consultant in Electro-acoustics
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1. CALL TO ORDER AND OPENING BUSINESS
THE MEETING WAS CALLED TO ORDER AT 13:30 AND ADJOURNED AT 17:00
ON WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 2004. IT WAS THE THIRD MEETING OF
TR41.3.11 WORKING GROUP.
2. COPYRIGHT AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS
The Chair reminded the attendees the TIA copyright and IP policy as attached on the
meeting agenda.
3. REVIEW OF AGENDA
The agenda was reviewed. No change was made.
4. DISTRIBUTION AND NUMBERING CONTRIBUTIONS
Five contributions and one late contributions were received and posted on the TR41.3.11
folder:
TR41.3.11-04-11-01-SanAntonioAgendaAWooPlantronics
TR41.3.11-04-11-02-WashingtonMtgNotesAWooPlantronics
TR41.3.11-04-11-03-HeadsetDrft02.1-withTrackChanges
TR41.3.11-04-11-04-HeadsetDrft02.1-ChangesAccepted
TR41.3.11-04-11-05-269Draft25
TR41.3.11-04-11-06x-L-DC-Feed-taken-470C.210DStennerAdvent
The contributions were distributed.
5. REVIEW OF PREVIOUS MEETING NOTES
Two action items remain incomplete:
• Define and provide guidance on volume control when multiple volume control exists,
e.g. volume control on Tip-Ring and on headset it’s self.
• Define binaural headsets test procedure.
6. OLD BUSINESS
None at this time.
7. NEW BUSINESS
None at this time.
8. REVIEW CONTRIBUTIONS AND EDIT DRAFT DOCUMENT
Reviewed, discussed and edited the new draft of the document from Mr. Allen Woo,
TR41.3.11-04-11-03-Headset Draft02.1. The new draft was numbered as
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WorkingTR41.3.11-004-HeadsetDraft03. The draft will be sent to Mr. Ken Macdonald for
posting on FTP site.
Other topics discussed during the meeting:
a. The Send FR limits may be reduced for Bluetooth type devices if suitable contributions
are received. WG discussion indicated that the limits should not be changed to lower the
quality requirement.
b. Request contribution for SND and Harmonic test method and limit for Rx and Tx. This
will assist in finding a bad device along with Harmonic Distortion.
c. Need to change Acoustic Stability to Return Loss?
d. Send loudness levels may need to be adjusted to reflect the application of headset with
possible lower side tone level, etc.
9. MEETING SUMMARY
Action Item:
a. Allen Woo will send the new draft from the meeting to Ken Macdonald to post on
FTP site as HeadsetDraft03.
b. Glenn Hess, MWM Acoustics, to provide contribution on Harmonic and SND test
methods and limit for Rx and Tx.
c. Allen Woo will liaison with IEEE STIT on the following issues:
1. Continue to work to define and provide guidance on volume control when multiple
volume control exists, e.g. volume control on Tip-Ring and on headset it’s self.
2. Continue to work to define binaural headsets test procedure.
10. NEXT MEETING
The next meeting will be held at Embassy Suites Hotel Las Vegas from February 7 to 11,
2005. The specific time and day for this working group will be announced.
11. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 5:00 pm.
Allen Woo
Chair, TR41.3.11
Thanks to everyone attended the meeting
4.5.3 TR-41.3 Meeting Notes And Actions
Information
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• Allen Woo made a motion to start a new standard for a stand-alone headset as the
scope of the current standard under development is to treat the headset and attached
telephone as a system (headset to Tip & Ring requirements). There was discussion
about the need for a standard for the headset only. The consensus of the group was it is
important to complete one standard before starting another and that the working group
should meet and possibly consider changing the scope of the current standard under
development, or complete the current standard, then start the next.
Votes:
• None.
Action Items
• None.
Future Items:
• Request a ½ day for February 2005 meeting.
5. LIAISON REPORTS
TR41.9 & ACTA - Steve Whitesell (for Greg Slingerland)
• TIA-368-A is completed and is only waiting for completion of the ANSI balloting period.
• The revision of TSB-31B should be completed by 2-2005.
ITU-SG-12 – Roger Britt –
• No report
IEEE – Ken Macdonald
• Still working on a revision of 269.
• Next work will be on 1329 revision to start soon.
TR41.7 Safety –Don McKinnon
• Revision to TIA 571-A (PN 3-3283-RV2) is underway, about 40% completed.
• Request reply from T1E1 regarding liaison previously sent.
TR41.4 & VOIP – Steve Whitesell (for Bob Bell)
• TIA-811-A was approved to go out for ballot
T1E1 –Trone Bishop
• No report
6. OLD BUSINESS
• A new project was approved previously to develop a document (TSB-470?) to compare
TIA-470.xxx-C and applicable ETSI standards. Berndt Martenson from ETSI made the
initial contribution. Mr. Martenson will no longer be able to attend TIA meetings. There
was discussion on whether to continue this project. The consensus was to complete the
project. The TR41.3.8 working group may be able to pick this project up once the ballot
is completed after the next meeting. ACTION ITEM: Bress to request Project Number
for this project.
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7. NEW BUSINESS
• There was significant discussion regarding the Hearing Aid Compatibility (HAC) issue
regarding interference from cordless telephones. There have been several UPED
meetings regarding this issue as TIA was contacted by the FCC due to complaints
received regarding interference to hearing aids from cordless telephones. During the
UPED meetings a question was raised as to whether the interference was actually
caused by RF interference, or if the magnetic output of the telephone was being
distorted by some other factors. This distinction is important as the FCC has worked
with the IEEE to develop a standard for measuring the RF related interference for cell
phones (IEEE C63.19), but it is not clear that this type of testing and requirements are
applicable for the issues for cordless telephones.
Ms. Linda Kozma from the Galluadet Univeristy attended the TR-41.3 meeting part
relevant to HAC by conference telephone. Ms. Kozma is currently involved in research
of the HAC issue focused mainly on testing the effect of various cordless telephones on
various types of hearing aid devices. Contributions regarding this issue were submitted
by TR-41.3 members and are summarized in the Review Of Contributions section below.
• Roger Britt from Nortel has fulfilled a TR41.3 action item in a big way by preparing a
document comparing the various standards from TR41 and how these standards relate
to other standards from other standards organizations. This comparison document is
available on the TIA website under TR-41. Nice work Roger!
8. REVIEW OF CONTRIBUTIONS
• TR41.3-04-11-004-TAM-Ray-Sprint.pdf
A project to start an answering machine standard was approved in November, 2003 but no
working group or formal project was started due to scheduling issues. A new contribution was
submitted by Amar Ray from Sprint. The subcommittee agreed to start this effort and an Ad-
Hoc working group meeting will be scheduled for the next meeting to start this effort. ACTION
ITEM: Bress to request Project Number for this project.
• TR41.3-04-11-005-PLT-USB-HeadsetDraft01SGrahamPlantronics.pdf
Steve Graham introduced this contribution as the start of the USB based "soft-phone" device
project which the subcommittee agreed to start. It was agreed that the technical details would
be addressed in the working group.
• TR41.3-04-11-003-DigitalCordlessHAC,ABaum,Uniden.pdf
• TR41.3-04-11-007-L-Uniden-Contribution.pdf
Al Baum, from Uniden, presented very detailed information regarding testing he had performed
on various cordless telephones. The goal of this testing was to verify if in fact the magnetic
audio output of the telephones was distorted, and what is the correct way to make
measurements to evaluate the magnetic audio output. Copious data showing various
measurements made in the axial and radial orientation was presented. Mr. Baum was
congratulated for providing a very detailed and thorough contribution.
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• TR41.3-04-11-006-L-CordlessHACContribution,SKropp,VTech.pdf
Steve Kropp, from VTech, presented a contribution showing data gathered for measuring the
magnetic audio output of several telephones. Mr. Kropp's methods were different than Mr.
Baum's but the data also showed an indication of the distortion of the magnetic audio output.
HAC Discussion Summary
There was much discussion regarding the meaning of the results and future steps to take. The
following conclusions were expressed:
1. Most everyone involved believed the HAC issue was actually caused by distortion of the
magnetic audio output of the cordless handset receiver rather than due to RF interference
from the cordless handset into a hearing aid.
2. The magnetic audio distortion is likely being caused by the switching of power circuits in the
handset creating a magnetic field which distorts the magnetic audio signal.
3. The HAC - cordless issue is only believed to occur in digital spread spectrum cordless
telephones and is due to the power switching inherent in the RF part of the circuitry.
The goal identified is to establish an accepted method for measuring the signal quality of the
magnetic audio output of the telephone such that a performance criteria could be developed
which will relate to subjective experiences of hearing aid users. The next steps were agreed:
1. Linda Kozma invited interested parties to visit her lab to view her test set-up and provide any
suggestions. Ms. Kozma's plans are to identify and obtain several different digital cordless
telephones and test these devices together and try to find an acceptable method for
measuring the effect on the hearing aids. She will attempt to verify these results
subjectively with people using hearing aids.
2. Al Baum agreed to develop a new proposal for how to make the magnetic audio output
measurements. This proposal will be circulated among TR-41.3 for review and comment.
3. Once the data from Ms. Kozma is available, an attempt will be made to correlate the
magnetic audio output measurement and performance evaluation methods with the
subjective results obtained.
9. ACTION ITEMS
9.1 Action Items (Carried Forward From Last Meeting)
Name / Company Action Item
James Bress Compile list of definitions and acronyms from other TR41.3
AST Technology Labs documents. Request list from Bob Bell.
UPDATE: TR-41 plenary agreed this is worthwhile effort and
all agreed to help by providing information.
James Bress Submit a plan for providing updates to TIA-855 (Automatic
AST Technology Labs Stutter Dialtone)
All Develop list of words for inclusion in TIA website and make
sure the words will be picked up on web searches.
James Bress Put web keyword list on reflector for everyone’s input.
AST Technology Labs
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9.2 Action Items (New)
Name / Company Action Item
James Bress New project number of TIA-470.xxx-C and ETSI comparison
AST Technology Labs TSB.
James Bress New project number for the USB based "soft-phone" devices
AST Technology Labs standard project.
James Bress New project number for the answering machine standard
AST Technology Labs project.
10. MEETING SUMMARY
The TR-41.3 chair prepares a "TR-41.3 Chair's Report" which is presented at the TR-41 plenary
meeting. This report is copied below in its entirety. This report summarizes the current status
of each TR-41.3 project, and provides all TR-41 items requested for concurrence, or approval.
TR-41.3 Chair’s Report for November 2004
Subcommittee TR-41.3 met on Thursday afternoon, November 11, 2004. Its various working
groups met from Monday through Thursday morning. It also met jointly with TR41.1 on
Wednesday evening to cover the analog terminal adapter work project.
Project Status: The following is a summary of the status of each Project assigned to TR-41.3.
• PN-3-nnnn, Comparison of TIA-470-C and ETSI TS 103 021 Requirements (to become a
TSB)
Current Status: Discussion during TR41.3 meeting indicated to go forward with this project
even though Berndt Martenson will not be attending the TIA meetings any longer. Berndt
agreed to still work on the project remotely. Bress will get a project number for this and the
TR41.3.8 WG will take this up after the next meeting when the Network Signaling document
should be through final balloting.
Target Completion Date: 08/2005
• PN-3-4350.120-RV3, Hands Free Acoustic Performance Requirements for Analog
Telephones (to become TIA-470.120-C)
Current Status: The TR41.3.10 working group (Al Baum, Uniden: Chair) met for a full day on
Tuesday. Progress is continuing with many details regarding frequency response masks and
placement of the CPE during directional acoustic testing discussed. There is much work to
do in this standard and contributions are requested.
Target Completion Date: 02/2006
• PN-3-4350.130-RV3, Headset Acoustic Performance Requirements for Analog Telephones
(to become TIA-470.130-C)
Current Status: The TR41.3.11 (Alan Woo, Plantronics: Chair) working group met for ½ day
on Wednesday. Many technical issues are being worked. There is discussion of possibly
changing the scope of the current standard from a system approach of a telephone + headset
to possibly standardizing the headset alone and/or the headset jack of the telephone. The
working group will move forward and discuss the scope at the next meeting.
Target Completion Date: 02/2006
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• PN-3-4350.230-RV3, Network Signaling Performance Requirements for Analog Telephones
(to become TIA-470.230-C)
Current Status: The TR41.3.8 (Don McKinnon, AST Technology Labs: Chair) working group
met for a ½ day on Monday. The Committee ballot comments were discussed and resolved
and after the last editing work is completed, the document will be sent for Industry Ballot
within 2 weeks.
Target Completion Date: 02/2005
Plenary Action Requested: Request concurrence to send PN-3-4350.130-RV3 (to be TIA-
470.130-C) for Industry Ballot.
Plenary Action Taken:
• PN-3-4350.320-RV3, Cordless Telephone Performance Requirements (to become TIA-
470.320)
Current Status: The TR41.3.9 working group (Harry Van Zandt, ECS Technologies: Chair)
met on Thursday. There are many difficult technical issues to be worked regarding
measurement of battery talk-time and stand-by time, and several other issues. Contributions
are requested with a goal to have a document ready for Committee ballot after the Feb. 2005
meeting.
Target Completion Date: 11/2005
*** NOTE: ADD THE FOLLOWING PROJECT ***
• PN-3-4352-RV2, Transmission Requirements for Narrowband Voice over IP and Voice over
PCM Digital Wireline Telephones (to become TIA-810-B)
Current Status: The TR41.3.3 working group (Ken Macdonald, Microtronix: Chair) met for a ½
day on Monday. The goal to complete the TIA-810A revision quickly was expressed. Many
technical issues were discussed including the need to coordinate efforts with TIA-920, and
also IEE-269. There was agreement to include TCLw, and to specify HATS in TIA-810B. A
Webex meeting is scheduled for December, which was agreed to in the TR41.3 meeting.
Goal is to have a ballot document ready by 11/2005.
A request was made to start a new project to standardize a USB headset “softphone”. Steve
Graham from Plantronics has submitted a draft document contribution and has agreed to be
the document editor.
There was significant discussion regarding the new softer pinna to be specified in P.57 and a
request for a liaison letter to be sent from TR-41 to the ITU to request a new clause
specifying the new pinna under 3.3.1 rather than in 3.3 in P.57. Steve Whitesell agreed to
send this liaison after discussion in the TR41 plenary
Target Completion Date: 02/2006
Plenary Action Requested: Concurrence to start a new project for a USB based headset for
use as a “soft-phone”.
Plenary Action Taken:
Plenary Action Requested: Concurrence to send a liaison letter to ITU to request a new
clause (3.3.1) for the new proposed softer pinna.
Plenary Action Taken:
Additional Information: TR-41.3 would like to provide the following additional information.
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• TR41.3 voted to start a project for standardizing a Telephone Answering Device (TAD) 1 year
ago. Due to scheduling constraints this effort was delayed in starting. An ad-hoc working
group will meet at the Feb. 2005 meetings to expand on the contribution presented by Amar
Ray from Sprint. TR41 already gave concurrence for this project 1 year ago.
• There was significant discussion during the TR41.3 meeting regarding cordless telephones
and Hearing Aid Compatibility. There are several groups working on research to understand
what is the root cause of interference of cordless telephones and hearing aids. Linda Kozma
from Galluadet University in Washington DC is doing research on the effect to hearing aids.
Several TR41.3 members are investigating what is the actual interference signal whether it is
RF or magnetic related. The current goal is to verify we can develop a testing method which
reflects subjectively obtained results. The overall goal from TIA is to provide the FCC with
assurance that TIA will provide the engineering information necessary (i.e., a TIA standard) to
resolve the HAC issue. It is unknown at this time if this will result in new FCC regulations or
be a TIA standard with the successful result as was obtained with the TIA-631 standard.
• Roger Britt from Nortel has fulfilled a TR41.3 action item in a big way by preparing a
document comparing the various standards from TR41 and how these standards relate to
other standards from other standards organizations. This comparison document is available
on the TIA website under TR-41. Nice work Roger!
• TR-41.3 requests the following schedule for the 2/2005 meetings:
Day Morning Afternoon Evening (7:00PM – 11:00pm)
MON 41.3.11(Headset) 41.7.4(TIA-571B)
**TUE 41.3.8(TIA-470.230-C) 41.3.10(Handsfree) 41.3-AD-HOC(TAD)
WED 41.3.9(TIA-470.320-C) 41.3.3(TIA-810B) 41.3.3(TIA-810B)
THR 41.1.1(ATA) 41.3
**NOTE: The TR41.3.10 (Handsfree) meeting will start in the morning as soon as the
TR41.3.8 meeting is completed.
11. DETAILS FOR NEXT MEETING (Bress)
The next TIA TR-41 meetings are scheduled for February 2005 in Las Vegas Nevada.
Reservations should be made as soon as possible since the block of rooms fills up quickly.
12. ADJOURNMENT (Bress)
The meeting was adjourned at 6:30 PM.
The meeting was conducted in accordance with the TIA engineering manual
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